DaveB: trying to stop a roller coaster year

[DaveB]

20 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

I'm glad you are getting better!

I really hope I am headed that way, I guess we will see.

[RusTW]

Dave good job at powering thru this.

Leaping the tallest buildings my Friend. 

 Russ 

[DaveB]

59 minutes ago, RusTW said:

Dave good job at powering thru this.

Leaping the tallest buildings my Friend. 

 Russ 

 

Thanks man, hardest thing I have even done or been through...and I have been through quite a bit. Cancer survivor at age 20, I would take radiation therapy every day of my life over this! Today has been pretty hard.

[DaveB]

also this weekend marks 2 years since this whole nightmare began. That is a discouraging fact!

[Rosetta]

57 minutes ago, DaveB said:

 

Thanks man, hardest thing I have even done or been through...and I have been through quite a bit. Cancer survivor at age 20, I would take radiation therapy every day of my life over this! Today has been pretty hard.

 Wow.  That's saying something!!       

[Happy2Heal]

2 hours ago, DaveB said:

also this weekend marks 2 years since this whole nightmare began. That is a discouraging fact!

well, I guess you could look at it that way but another way to look at it is, that you're 2 years closer to being fully healed, because all of this time your brain has been doing the hard work of putting itself back the way it was before the drugs, right?

I mean, that's the way I'd look at it, just to try to make myself feel better and more hopeful.

 

 

[DaveB]

1 hour ago, Happy2Heal said:

well, I guess you could look at it that way but another way to look at it is, that you're 2 years closer to being fully healed, because all of this time your brain has been doing the hard work of putting itself back the way it was before the drugs, right?

I mean, that's the way I'd look at it, just to try to make myself feel better and more hopeful.

 

 

 

Yeah that is a much better way to look at it. Today has just been a tough day again, I feel about the same today as when this all started two years ago, so that has been tough to be positive about. Hopefully soon I will be able to look back and see definitive improvement!

[Happy2Heal]

aww so sorry you've had a rough day

 

a lot of times that means a good window is coming. I sure hope that's the case for you!!

 

[DaveB]

1 hour ago, Happy2Heal said:

aww so sorry you've had a rough day

 

a lot of times that means a good window is coming. I sure hope that's the case for you!!

 

 

Thanks I hope so too. Too bad cause the last 2 days had been manageable, but today was tough!

[Hazel]

Hi Dave,

so sorry to hear you are struggling.  I just wanted you to know I’m thinking about you and hoping you see improvement very soon😊

[DaveB]

1 hour ago, Hazel said:

Hi Dave,

so sorry to hear you are struggling.  I just wanted you to know I’m thinking about you and hoping you see improvement very soon😊

 

Thanks Hazel, how are you doing? Still feeling good?

[DaveB]

On 1/19/2019 at 1:00 PM, Altostrata said:

As you are moving the Paxil earlier every day, your symptom pattern will take a while to sort out. Taking Paxil earlier appears to have some benefits. Please continue to to move Paxil earlier.

 

Woke at 7 but it was Sunday so I was actually able to go back to sleep and slept pretty good.

 

9:30 - wake take multivitamins, fish oil, magnesium, vitamin d. Moderate anxiety turns to mild as I get up.

 

9:30 - 11AM - anxiety coming in waves from moderate to mild, but overall totally manageable.

 

11 - Noon - Anxiety rising to high levels.

 

Noon - 2PM - High unbearable anxiety

 

2PM - Take Paxil 10MGs

 

2PM - 8PM still super high anxiety coming in waves. Sometimes not so bad, sometimes unbearable!

 

8PM - 10PM - starting to settle a bit, better than earlier, but nowhere near 100%

 

11PM - 2.5mgs Zyprexa 

 

10 - 12 - Anxiety spike as I got kind of work up about a twitch in my eyebrow, worried about TD due to the Zyprexa.

 

Overall a really tough day, when does it get better?!?!

[Hazel]

2 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

Thanks Hazel, how are you doing? Still feeling good?

Yes, I am still doing pretty well.  I’m not 100% yet, but around 85% I would say.  

I hope you feel some long-term relief very soon now.  I remember all too well how difficult it is to feel like you are now.  Just know I am here for you.

[Tom37]

When does it get better? I wish I knew as I’m struggling just as much.

 

Its ridiculous.

 

 

 

[DaveB]

1 hour ago, Hazel said:

Yes, I am still doing pretty well.  I’m not 100% yet, but around 85% I would say.  

I hope you feel some long-term relief very soon now.  I remember all too well how difficult it is to feel like you are now.  Just know I am here for you.

 

Thanks Hazel, good to know there is another side of this we can get to. One thing that has been kind of weighing on my mind is that my Paxil dose isn’t in the therapeutic range, and therefore I won’t be able to stabilize on it. Probably just headttash and the WD fixating on something to try to discourage me. Maybe @brassmonkey would know something about that thought? 

[DaveB]

59 minutes ago, Tom37 said:

When does it get better? I wish I knew as I’m struggling just as much.

 

Its ridiculous.

 

 

 

 

We will get there man, wish it was sooner than it looks like it will be!

[Gracee]

14 minutes ago, DaveB said:

 

Thanks Hazel, good to know there is another side of this we can get to. One thing that has been kind of weighing on my mind is that my Paxil dose isn’t in the therapeutic range, and therefore I won’t be able to stabilize on it. Probably just headttash and the WD fixating on something to try to discourage me. Maybe @brassmonkey would know something about that thought? 

Hi Dave, A question for you:  I recently began withdrawing from Paxil, so am reading accounts of others withdrawing from same drug.  I've been unsuccessful at three other WD attempts over past 16 years.  However, I have pledged to WD super slow this time.   I am wondering what you mean when you say ",,,,,my Paxil dose isn't in the therapeutic range, and therefore I won't be able to stabilize on it...."  Thanks in advance for your response.

[DaveB]

18 minutes ago, Gracee said:

Hi Dave, A question for you:  I recently began withdrawing from Paxil, so am reading accounts of others withdrawing from same drug.  I've been unsuccessful at three other WD attempts over past 16 years.  However, I have pledged to WD super slow this time.   I am wondering what you mean when you say ",,,,,my Paxil dose isn't in the therapeutic range, and therefore I won't be able to stabilize on it...."  Thanks in advance for your response.

 

Just that, according to studies and literature from the drug maker Paxil’s lowest “therapeutic dose” is 20 mgs.

[Gracee]

Thanks Dave, I understand what you're saying now.   However,  what Paxil literature states about a so-called therapeutic dose makes no sense at all.  I pretty much disbelieve anything AD manufacturers publish these days.  Best wishes on your withdrawal.  I sincerely hope you will stick with it.   My biggest regret is throwing in the towel when I reached 5 mg in 2010, so hang in there. 

[RachelSusan]

Dave,

 

There is no such thing as a true "therapeutic range." It is a dosage that the pharmaceutical companies have come up with that they recommend a person takes in order to fight off depression or OCD or whatever the drug is being used for. Also that number is not connected to stabilizing. People stabilize on whatever number is needed to appease the brain and CNS which is in a state of turmoil. I wanted to get back to you right away on this so you don't stress. I'm sure your mod will answer you as well.

 

Please Dave, don't give in to the urge to make a change. Don't read into the above where I said "whatever number is need to appease the brain."  If you go chasing that Holy Grail you will hurt your recovery. Remember that making a change in itself is what can lead to more turmoil. In a state of withdrawal doing nothing is doing everything. I will repeated it again: In a state of withdrawal doing nothing is doing everything.  I don't care if you have to print it on a post-it and plaster it on your computer, you bathroom mirror, you car dashboard, whatever. Please please please don't make changes. Hold tight, get through each day and you will slowly improve.  Last spring you were doing much better because you hadn't made as many changes.  We all want to see you healthy and happy.

 

Warm wishes,

R

[Gridley]

Dave,

 

Stay where you are.  You have made many changes.  You need to hold and stabilize.  RachelSusan makes a lot of sense in her advice to you.  

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, RachelSusan said:

There is no such thing as a true "therapeutic range." It is a dosage that the pharmaceutical companies have come up with that they recommend a person takes in order to fight off depression or OCD or whatever the drug is being used for. Also that number is not connected to stabilizing. People stabilize on whatever number is needed to appease the brain and CNS which is in a state of turmoil.

 

Exactly.  SA prefers to the use the term "lowest effective dose".

 

5 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Dave,

 

Stay where you are.  You have made many changes.  You need to hold and stabilize.  RachelSusan makes a lot of sense in her advice to you.  

 

Agree with all statements made in this quote.

[Gracee]

Hey Dave, Please hang in there and go slow.   As a fellow Paxil withdrawer I am following your progress and wish you the best.

[DaveB]

@ChessieCat @Altostrata

 

Woke at 7 - Day off so tried to go back to sleep, couldn’t really do it.

 

8:30 - wake take multivitamins, fish oil, magnesium, vitamin d. Moderate anxiety turns to mild as I get up.

 

9:30 - Noon - anxiety coming in waves in the moderate intensity level.

 

Noon - 1PM - Went for a light jog, felt much better during jog.

 

1PM - Take Paxil 10MGs

 

1PM - 3PM - Starting to feel much, not sure if it was the jog, the Paxil, or the monster energy drink, but things feeling much better.

 

3PM - 10PM - overall doing really well. Some very mild anxiety here and there, but overall feeling much better.

 

11PM - 2.5mgs Zyprexa 

 

11PM - Midnight - Still doing really good, some mild anxiety but no problem. Watched a show and then bed.

 

Overall a REALLY good day, why can’t they all be liked this? Woke today with pretty high anxiety so...here we go again...I am tired!

[eymen23]

Do you drink a lot of energy drinks Dave?

 

They can really ramp up symptoms when I’m sensitive or anxious, although make me feel somewhat euphoric when I’m well.

[DaveB]

21 minutes ago, eymen23 said:

Do you drink a lot of energy drinks Dave?

 

They can really ramp up symptoms when I’m sensitive or anxious, although make me feel somewhat euphoric when I’m well.

 

No I don’t drink them often, but I have kind of noticed I feel noticeably better sometimes after having one. Maybe not a good idea, I honestly don’t know.

[DaveB]

17 hours ago, RachelSusan said:

Dave,

 

There is no such thing as a true "therapeutic range." It is a dosage that the pharmaceutical companies have come up with that they recommend a person takes in order to fight off depression or OCD or whatever the drug is being used for. Also that number is not connected to stabilizing. People stabilize on whatever number is needed to appease the brain and CNS which is in a state of turmoil. I wanted to get back to you right away on this so you don't stress. I'm sure your mod will answer you as well.

 

Please Dave, don't give in to the urge to make a change. Don't read into the above where I said "whatever number is need to appease the brain."  If you go chasing that Holy Grail you will hurt your recovery. Remember that making a change in itself is what can lead to more turmoil. In a state of withdrawal doing nothing is doing everything. I will repeated it again: In a state of withdrawal doing nothing is doing everything.  I don't care if you have to print it on a post-it and plaster it on your computer, you bathroom mirror, you car dashboard, whatever. Please please please don't make changes. Hold tight, get through each day and you will slowly improve.  Last spring you were doing much better because you hadn't made as many changes.  We all want to see you healthy and happy.

 

Warm wishes,

R

 

This is great Rachel, I actually had a pretty great day yesterday, this morning had been really bad so far. Not sure what to think at this point.

[DaveB]

1 hour ago, eymen23 said:

Do you drink a lot of energy drinks Dave?

 

They can really ramp up symptoms when I’m sensitive or anxious, although make me feel somewhat euphoric when I’m well.

 

Like this morning, really bad morning, really high anxiety. Drank a Monster at about 10:30 and now at 11:20 I am feeling much better. Anyone with a Theroy on this? Shouldn’t these energy drinks be bad for anxiety?

[Altostrata]

3 hours ago, DaveB said:

Overall a REALLY good day, why can’t they all be liked this? Woke today with pretty high anxiety so...here we go again...I am tired!

 

This appears to be related to the timing of your Paxil dose. Please continue to move it earlier in the day.

 

I have no idea why you feel better after a Monster drink. Do you drink it at the same time you take Paxil?

 

The caffeine in those drinks can mess up sleep. If you have a longstanding large daily caffeine habit, that could be the reason you had sleep problems and are now taking a dangerous drug like Zyprexa for sleep.

[DaveB]

52 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

 

This appears to be related to the timing of your Paxil dose. Please continue to move it earlier in the day.

 

I have no idea why you feel better after a Monster drink. Do you drink it at the same time you take Paxil?

 

The caffeine in those drinks can mess up sleep. If you have a longstanding large daily caffeine habit, that could be the reason you had sleep problems and are now taking a dangerous drug like Zyprexa for sleep.

 

Zyprexa was prescribed to help with what I now know to be withdrawal. I was waking at 4AM every morning shaking and sweating. The Zyprexa helped to essentially push the morning cortisol awakening to about 7AM. Not sure it is doing much else.

 

As far as the monster drink, I drank it today before the Paxil dose and still had a positive result. Anxiety is starting to creep back in though now as the day has worn on.

[DaveB]

2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

This appears to be related to the timing of your Paxil dose. Please continue to move it earlier in the day.

 

I have no idea why you feel better after a Monster drink. Do you drink it at the same time you take Paxil?

 

I actually think the pattern has been the anxiety tends to ramp up a bit after the Paxil dose. I could be wrong and it could be unrelated. The Monster drink seems like it gave me a couple of good hours today (again not sure how or why) other than that it has been a real struggle today.

[eymen23]

Dave,

 

I just want to mention from experience that sometimes I would initially feel great after an energy drink, only to have a delayed anxiety reaction 2-4 hours later.

 

I cut out red bull and all other caffeine sources a few weeks into beginning an SSRI for this very reason. You may be ok having the occasional energy drink but just wanted to share my experience in case it helps you. 

[ChessieCat]

42 minutes ago, DaveB said:

I actually think the pattern has been the anxiety tends to ramp up a bit after the Paxil dose. I could be wrong and it could be unrelated. The Monster drink seems like it gave me a couple of good hours today (again not sure how or why) other than that it has been a real struggle today.

 

Once again you are "changing something" or adding something into the mix which confuses things.  You are in the process of changing the timing of your Paxil dose and have also had an energy drink you won't know what is happening.  My suggestion would be to not drink any more energy drinks and get your Paxil dose sorted out first.  At least that way you are limiting the variables.  Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

 

Edited January 22, 2019 by ChessieCat

[DaveB]

6 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Once again you are "changing something" or adding something into the mix which confuses things.  You are in the process of changing the timing of your Paxil dose and have also had an energy drink you won't know what is happening.  My suggestion would be to not drink any more energy drinks and get your Paxil dose sorted out first.  At least that way you are limiting the variables.  Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

 

 

Ok, I have always had some caffeine in the AM, usually V8 energy (more juice than energy drink, only 60mgs compared to 150mgs in monster). It is only recently I have tried the monster and have been surprised by the positive results. So go back to V8, or cut out a morning energy drink altogether?

[Tom37]

I would cut it out completely if it was me. Even  pre wd any energy would make me feel a bit jittery and wired. Not something I would want to add if already anxious but everyone reacts differently....my partner can drink coke and go straight to sleep.

 

Not sure if you can just stop cold turkey because I know you can get withdrawals from stopping coffee but I guess depends on how much your taking etc. Moderators can tell you I’m sure.

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, DaveB said:

V8 energy

 

I thought it was just a vegetable juice.  I noticed it in your symptoms diary.  That could be contributing to your anxiety.  Like doh!!!  I did ask if you were drinking coffee.

 

Edited January 23, 2019 by ChessieCat