DaveB: trying to stop a roller coaster year

[DaveB]

18 minutes ago, Gridley said:

How about 3/4 or half a Dr. Pepper and afterwards just water?  Sort of a Dr. Pepper taper.

 

Haha, I actually like that idea Gridley. I think I will try that next week. 20oz instead of 32oz in the AM, then maybe 20oz in the afternoon instead of 32 the week after. Taper off the caffeine and sugar, good idea!

[DaveB]

2 hours ago, Gridley said:

How about 3/4 or half a Dr. Pepper and afterwards just water?  Sort of a Dr. Pepper taper.

 

On 2/15/2018 at 1:53 PM, JamesF said:

Great to see things are improving for you Dave. Sounds like you're stabilizing

 

May biggest fear now that I am starting to stabilize is that the drugs will turn parodoxical or poopout on me as it seems happens to quite a few people. I am just coming out of the nightmare, I can’t inagine having to face it again.

[Rosetta]

4 minutes ago, DaveB said:

 

 

May biggest fear now that I am starting to stabilize is that the drugs will turn parodoxical or poopout on me as it seems happens to quite a few people. I am just coming out of the nightmare, I can’t inagine having to face it again.

 

I don think that's likely to happen.  You are doing so well, Dave! 

[Hazel]

Hi Dave,

I thought I’d get your input since you and I have had similar drug histories.  I have not been doing so well over the past month or so.  I am really starting to consider going back to Zoloft.  I was on it for about 13 years and tried going off (the wrong way) several times, but was able to stabilize each time I went back.  I just don’t feel that I’ve been stable on Paxil for more than a few days in a row since switching to it over a year ago.  I have done stupid things over the course of the year like drinking alcohol, taking an occasional benzo, and more recently taking hydroxyzine for sleep last week.  I know all of those things threw my system off, but I still thought I would be doing better by now.  Do you feel like you are stabilizing on the Paxil?  I just feel so lost and don’t know what to do at this point.  

Thanks in advance,

Hazel

[DaveB]

3 hours ago, Hazel said:

Hi Dave,

I thought I’d get your input since you and I have had similar drug histories.  I have not been doing so well over the past month or so.  I am really starting to consider going back to Zoloft.  I was on it for about 13 years and tried going off (the wrong way) several times, but was able to stabilize each time I went back.  I just don’t feel that I’ve been stable on Paxil for more than a few days in a row since switching to it over a year ago.  I have done stupid things over the course of the year like drinking alcohol, taking an occasional benzo, and more recently taking hydroxyzine for sleep last week.  I know all of those things threw my system off, but I still thought I would be doing better by now.  Do you feel like you are stabilizing on the Paxil?  I just feel so lost and don’t know what to do at this point.  

Thanks in advance,

Hazel

 

I feel I am starting to stabilize. It is VERY slow, and I am on a high dose of Paxil, but I am for sure seeing many improvements. I too have wondered many times why I just don't go back to Zoloft as I did so well on it for years, but at this point I have been on Paxil so long I don't think a switch would be worth the risk. I have been SLOWLY getting better the last month or two so I guess that is why I am willing to stick it out with Paxil.

[samanthaelizabeth]

On 12/11/2017 at 3:44 PM, DaveB said:

As advised previously, because of the many recent changes in your drugs and dosages, you should not make any changes at this time.   It can take months to stabilize.  More switches can further destabilize your system.

I don't know how to put this quote by @Gridley on my own thread, so I'll just ask the question here?  Am I stable enough to start my taper after I complete my cross taper? I'm not crying or anything, but not exactly happy either (probably due to the fact that I am very hard on myself). I really just want to go back to bed right now because I'm tired of thinking about all of this.  I wish I never would have taken Wellbutrin ( I didn't know it would totally F**K up my life)  I haven't worked steady since that evil drug. But now I am constantly sweating and I don't think it's healthy for me.  I didn't have this problem before with the Zoloft, I don't understand how only a week of tapering and then going back up to my regular dose could cause this?

[Hazel]

39 minutes ago, DaveB said:

 

I feel I am starting to stabilize. It is VERY slow, and I am on a high dose of Paxil, but I am for sure seeing many improvements. I too have wondered many times why I just don't go back to Zoloft as I did so well on it for years, but at this point I have been on Paxil so long I don't think a switch would be worth the risk. I have been SLOWLY getting better the last month or two so I guess that is why I am willing to stick it out with Paxil.

Thanks for your feedback Dave.  I guess I should probably stick it out longer.  I have an appointment with my doctor mid March, so I will at least give it till then and see how I am feeling.  I am glad to hear that you are getting better.  I wish you continued stabilization.

Hazel

[Gridley]

SAM, I COPIED MY RESPONSE ONTO YOUR THREAD

 

Sam,

 

I would say the same thing to you that I said to DaveB.  "As advised previously, because of the many recent changes in your drugs and dosages, you should not make any changes at this time.   It can take months to stabilize.  More switches can further destabilize your system."

 

The cross-taper, when you do it,  will have some destabilizing effects, so you should not make any changes when you complete it.  I know it is hard to hear this, but it can take a while to stabilize after a change.  You can see see that DaveB is doing really well by holding steady.  I know you want to go back to work, but if you go too fast, you are delaying rather than hastening to day you can return to work.

[DaveB]

This may be a dumb question, but I have been looking at healthier options for a drink in the morning that isn't just water. I have been looking at pomegranate juice, but I know some juices (like grapefruit) interact with SSRIs. Does anyone know if this is true of pomegranate juice as well? 

[Rosetta]

40 minutes ago, DaveB said:

This may be a dumb question, but I have been looking at healthier options for a drink in the morning that isn't just water. I have been looking at pomegranate juice, but I know some juices (like grapefruit) interact with SSRIs. Does anyone know if this is true of pomegranate juice as well? 

 

Hi Dave, Thanks for your note on my thread. I googled this pomegranate question for you, but all I found was that it may have similar issues as grapefruit juice with statins and might interfere with Maoi anti-depressants.  I didn't see anything about SSRIs specifically.  Good luck finding a Dr. Pepper substitute!

[Gridley]

This link says there is a moderate interaction between pomegranate juice and Prozac.  It didn't mention Paxil, but since Prozac and Paxil are both SSRIs, I would extrapolate there could be an interaction.

Does Pomegranate interact with any other medications? - WebMD Answers

[powerback]

Hi Dave I wanted to come over and say hi and thanks for your support earlier ,it was appreciated  on the cusp of a very bad long weekend .

Keep up your great work .

[DaveB]

Ugh, anxiety never gave me much of a break last night and I woke today with a pretty bad punch to the gut (thanks cortisol). Feels like a grind it out kind of day, maybe it will surprise me and dissipate. I was really hoping I was past this point in my recovery, today feels like any kind of stabilization or window was all an illusion. Have I mentioned that I hate that this process is not linear? I know that time is the best healer of this, but has anyone found out how to make time go faster? Sorry for the rant, just really frustrated! 

[JamesF]

42 minutes ago, DaveB said:

Ugh, anxiety never gave me much of a break last night and I woke today with a pretty bad punch to the gut (thanks cortisol). Feels like a grind it out kind of day, maybe it will surprise me and dissipate. I was really hoping I was past this point in my recovery, today feels like any kind of stabilization or window was all an illusion. Have I mentioned that I hate that this process is not linear? I know that time is the best healer of this, but has anyone found out how to make time go faster? Sorry for the rant, just really frustrated! 

Definitely nowhere near linear for me either. Huge zig zags up and down, and progress is only clear zooming out to months rather than days. 

 

I'm also in a dip with intense symptoms too - suddenly you forget that on average you're a lot better - and also forget that a lot of old symptoms may have faded even during the intense "punch in the gut" time. I suppose that's one value of our logs - to remember we actually are improving even when symptoms make us lose perspective and memory. 

Do you do any complementary techniques like meditation, tapping, hypnosis, etc? 

Speaking of time, one simple thing I was thinking of today and 'm continuing to see more and more value in when it comes to healing - is routine. Maybe you're much better at this than me.

 

But I've noticed that if I change the time I sleep, change the time I eat, change the time I meditate, walk, etc - I'm likely to get hit with an intensification of symptoms soon after or in the following days. I think in SSRI withdrawal, these small alterations (like sleeping 3 hours later one day or missing a meal) are hard for the body to adapt to and so will cause stress/confusion to the system, which then intensifies symptoms.  Also, even for people not experiencing withdrawal, regular sleep and eating times are shown to result in higher sleep quality and better health. I'm trying to establish doing everything at the same time every day like a religious ritual. Inevitably I fall off that wagon after a bad few days, but I notice that when I follow the same routine for a while, symptoms are minimised. So maybe this is one way to speed up time and heal a little bit quicker. 

Take care and hope the wave passes soon

[DaveB]

18 minutes ago, JamesF said:

Definitely nowhere near linear for me either. Huge zig zags up and down, and progress is only clear zooming out to months rather than days. 

 

I'm also in a dip with intense symptoms too - suddenly you forget that on average you're a lot better - and also forget that a lot of old symptoms may have faded even during the intense "punch in the gut" time. I suppose that's one value of our logs - to remember we actually are improving even when symptoms make us lose perspective and memory. 

Do you do any complementary techniques like meditation, tapping, hypnosis, etc? 

Speaking of time, one simple thing I was thinking of today and 'm continuing to see more and more value in when it comes to healing - is routine. Maybe you're much better at this than me.

 

But I've noticed that if I change the time I sleep, change the time I eat, change the time I meditate, walk, etc - I'm likely to get hit with an intensification of symptoms soon after or in the following days. I think in SSRI withdrawal, these small alterations (like sleeping 3 hours later one day or missing a meal) are hard for the body to adapt to and so will cause stress/confusion to the system, which then intensifies symptoms.  Also, even for people not experiencing withdrawal, regular sleep and eating times are shown to result in higher sleep quality and better health. I'm trying to establish doing everything at the same time every day like a religious ritual. Inevitably I fall off that wagon after a bad few days, but I notice that when I follow the same routine for a while, symptoms are minimised. So maybe this is one way to speed up time and heal a little bit quicker. 

Take care and hope the wave passes soon

 

Thanks for the good info James! I have done some meditation, but probably never regularly enough to see much benefit. I too have tried to become a creature of habit, and I agree that it helps. Had a real cold front and snowstorm (1st of the winter believe it or not) come through this week. So I have done some snow shoveling, and just being outside in colder weather. Maybe that has contributed to an anxiety setback...maybe it would have come anyway. I agree though, when looking at a macro view, I am doing better, I need to remember that and not hurry the process along. Sucks though when you read about people who get better in a few weeks or someone makes a medication change that helps them sometimes in a few days, that I am looking for improvement in months and now even a year +. 

[DaveB]

@JamesF

When you crashed in 2015, what made you go onto Sertraline vs back to Citalopram? Did you eventually stabilize on the Sertraline? If so, how long did it take? Sorry for all the questions, just seems like maybe your experience was similar to what I am trying to do by stabilizing on Paxil after being on Sertaline for so long. 

[powerback]

Hi Dave I replied on my thread but I wanted to come over and explain further here .your family are lucky to have a compassionate and caring  father .

If you find yourself getting overwhelmed by cases like my own I suggest you pull away for a bit and get obsessed about positivity/family  rather than  negativity.as  I said before there are countless variables to each persons case .the internet isn't big enough to list them all . 

 

My personal life was far from perfect before this happened so this process has  just muddied the waters for me.it has been a brutal winter for colds ,its before Christmas I had my normal strength so all this is a factor.

I mite second guess writing such things on my thread if I think it is affecting others adversely [my opinion, not for one second a slight on you of course ].

The last few weeks I'm doing better at accepting care and love from family and my partner and even friends ,rather than letting my ego destroy myself and shun everyone and basically self destruct .

I had a certain mind-set even before this process turned me into a demon .;it actually could be much worse [I know your thinking wow could it ] 

If I'm honest I've tried to do way to much in the last few years and its all taken its toll I reckon.I'm haunted by my past and when I'm not in the throws of strong withdrawal I try to work on easing this demon.im very self critical ,so you can imagine what withdrawal has done .

 

you are correct, its far from linear,in the worst of the last 2 weeks of my symptoms there was times I hadn't laughed so much also ,very strange but welcomed . 

 

Get yourself on to the success stories and read them and say to yourself "great I cant wait for that to me ".

Once again thanks for your concern and SA is lucky to have a member in you .

[AliG]

On 2/16/2018 at 4:51 AM, DaveB said:

Twice monthly update

 

Symptoms I am struggling with:

 

Morning Anxiety - Still pretty hard to wake up to, but no where near where it has been at my worst. I have actually seen some improvement here in the last 2 weeks. 

 

Inability to concentrate or enjoy things - This has improved, I am still a little obsessed with "how am I feeling" but I can watch TV and enjoy it and follow along in conversations much more. 

 

IBS - This was resolved in December, then came my pill mixup and strep throat which made it come back for a month, but not seems settled again. No IBS for a week.

 

Oily Skin - I think this has gotten better, but really isn't an important issue either way, just something I have noticed. 

 

Face Flushing and feeling "hot" - This has been almost non - existent, much better

 

Pins and Needles - Very rarely do I get this anymore, usually only after I work out.

 

Negative Thoughts - Much better, I generally have a positive outlook for the future, except for my really anxious moments where I feel I am trapped forever.

 

Early Cortisol Awakenings - I have morning anxiety, but not usually until 7:15 - 7:20. And it is a strong annoyance, not a punch to the stomach. 

 

Symptoms that has gone away or are greatly reduced:

 

Sensitivity to Sound - Gone, except for yesterday which was weird in that I had I slight version of this. 

 

Sensitivity to Smell - Gone

 

Shaking (especially in the hands) - Pretty much gone, sometimes very faint in the morning.

 

Burning Eyes - Gone, and was actually a real problem at one point.

 

OCD/Intrusive Thoughts - Mostly gone again.

 

 

Hi Dave. I'm reading your update and all I can see are positives ~ proof of how far you have come. I hope you don't mind me doing a little creative editing. It was mainly just to make a point.

I really just wanted you to see very clearly, the upward trajectory that you seem to be on.

 

Do you realize that even the symptoms you are still struggling with, are still improving in a fairly substantial way?

 

You have been patient and are now are starting to experience some of the benefits of that ~    We often talk about holding and staying stable but I think it can sometimes comes across as a little weak and ineffectual, whereas often it is the STRONGEST thing that you can do ~ holding takes strength and fortitude ~ doing nothing with your drugs is hard (HOLDING IS HARD WORK) as we are societally influenced and constantly bombarded everywhere ( media etc.) with action statements so that " doing nothing" just doesn't seem to be enough. In our case ( SA) in withdrawal ~ it's exactly the opposite and eventually it starts to pay off, as is clearly seen here with you.

 

Well done. I'm happy for you.

 

PS. I would work towards getting the caffeine and sugar out of your life ! Sorry, I know it hurts but it has so much more of an effect, than you could possibly even imagine. Possibly, time to make the break ! LOL    

 

Ali

[JamesF]

17 hours ago, DaveB said:

@JamesF

When you crashed in 2015, what made you go onto Sertraline vs back to Citalopram? Did you eventually stabilize on the Sertraline? If so, how long did it take? Sorry for all the questions, just seems like maybe your experience was similar to what I am trying to do by stabilizing on Paxil after being on Sertaline for so long. 

I was in such a state that the GP came to visit me in bed and I simply agreed to what he prescribed me. At the time, I knew relatively little about the psychopharmacology of SSRIs, nor about protracted withdrawal. Going back and knowing what I know now, I probably would have insisted on reinstating citalopram since that what my brain had been used to for about 7 years. 

However, it ended up being a good choice because I had a lot of nasty side effects like palpitations and dizziness on citalopram. It's also been linked to dangerous heart rhythms at high doses. On sertraline, I experienced a lot of tinnitus and nose bleeds, but these faded at lower doses and it was definitely preferable to heart symptoms. 

I think some SSRIs are close substitutes, and may even improve over one another. Since you're improving with time on paxil, I'd say it's okay and a good choice for you.

Back in the early days of citalopram I had a brief switch to fluoxitine, which resulted in a enormous agitation and anxiety - I had the sense that it was a more "stimulating" or "agitating" SSRI, when what I needed was more calm. So while some are good substitutes, I don't think they're all equal. 

And yes I stabilised on sertraline. 

In terms of the timeline. I'd say I got progressively worse for the 6 months after discontinuing citalopram. After introducing sertraline, I got worse for about a month, was about the same for another month, then slowly improved. Overall, I think it took about 4 months to stabilise. It might have taken less time if I'd started on a lower dose. 

This time in withdrawal for me it seems to be taking longer than before, I think because I went to a deeper, darker place, where my CNS took a bigger hit, so it's taking longer to return to normality.
 

21 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

Thanks for the good info James! I have done some meditation, but probably never regularly enough to see much benefit. I too have tried to become a creature of habit, and I agree that it helps. Had a real cold front and snowstorm (1st of the winter believe it or not) come through this week. So I have done some snow shoveling, and just being outside in colder weather. Maybe that has contributed to an anxiety setback...maybe it would have come anyway. I agree though, when looking at a macro view, I am doing better, I need to remember that and not hurry the process along. Sucks though when you read about people who get better in a few weeks or someone makes a medication change that helps them sometimes in a few days, that I am looking for improvement in months and now even a year +. 

 

Yeah I think it might be true about shovelling and cold contributing to a wave. 

I think it's super common to have intensification of symptoms if you over exert yourself or put any outside stress on the body like cold or heat.

The way I see this is developing sensitivity towards energy management. For many months I was in a perpetual cycle of pushing ... crashing ... pushing ... crashing. 2 steps forward, 5 steps back. I'd' feel more well than usual, then I'd suddenly try to do normal things like before then pay hard for it when I inevitably crashed. Before withdrawal I used to be like this in everything I did, working ridiculously long days, destroying myself at the gym, etc, so it wasn't surprising it carried over.

With time and a lot of suffering I realised the right approach definitely wasn't pushing myself (similarly I guess, nor is it "tough love" from others). Instead, just gentleness towards myself and the process, even if it's a long one. Now I try to stay sensitive to how much I energy I can expend on a day to day, or hour to hour basis, trying to go as much forward as I can while avoiding any self-inflicted crashes. 

[DaveB]

4 hours ago, AliG said:

 

Hi Dave. I'm reading your update and all I can see are positives ~ proof of how far you have come. I hope you don't mind me doing a little creative editing. It was mainly just to make a point.

I really just wanted you to see very clearly, the upward trajectory that you seem to be on.

 

Do you realize that even the symptoms you are still struggling with, are still improving in a fairly substantial way?

 

You have been patient and are now are starting to experience some of the benefits of that ~    We often talk about holding and staying stable but I think it can sometimes comes across as a little weak and ineffectual, whereas often it is the STRONGEST thing that you can do ~ holding takes strength and fortitude ~ doing nothing with your drugs is hard (HOLDING IS HARD WORK) as we are societally influenced and constantly bombarded everywhere ( media etc.) with action statements so that " doing nothing" just doesn't seem to be enough. In our case ( SA) in withdrawal ~ it's exactly the opposite and eventually it starts to pay off, as is clearly seen here with you.

 

Well done. I'm happy for you.

 

PS. I would work towards getting the caffeine and sugar out of your life ! Sorry, I know it hurts but it has so much more of an effect, than you could possibly even imagine. Possibly, time to make the break ! LOL    

 

Ali

 

Thanks Ali, this was just the reminder I needed! I loved your "creative editing!" Things have been so bad over this last year, every-time i get hit by a wave I panic and wonder if it is all going to come crashing down around me again. Yesterday actually ended up being just fine. Anxiety left about mid morning for a few hours, then came back a little for an afternoon visit to leave again and I actually had a pretty nice evening. Woke again with a pretty strong cortisol morning, not sure why this has been worse the last few days

(probably better than yesterday though). Need to remember that I am doing much better overall and that even if the mornings are hard with anxiety, it never lasts the whole day anymore. I am working on my caffeine and sugar, weaning down per week, hoping that helps. 

 

@JamesF

Thanks for the info on your last crash and stabilization. It brings much hope to me, one of my biggest worries is that my brain wants sertraline and so the paxil is a poor substitute. Glad to know you stabilized on something different. I need to get better at not pushing myself too hard, being a husband, dad, and business owner makes it tough though. I have loved your insights and to hear of all the improvement you have made. 

[DaveB]

Today is not a good day, not sure why or what has changed as I had been feeling so much more stable. I am just really frustrated by the whole process, wishing I was one of those people who get back to their normal life a month or so after reinstating. I have now been on Paxil almost 9 months, on Zyprexa for 6, with very small changes in the last 6 months and still can't get stable. Is my reinstatement on Paxil a lost cause? Should I go back to Zoloft? 

[RachelSusan]

Hi Dave,

 

We all heal differently. I saw your post on Justin's thread and I too am envious because it didn't happen for me like it did for him.  But it did happen, I eventually  became stable.  Don't despair, you will feel better.

 

Was your question about going back to Zoloft a rhetorical question, or are you asking for an opinion?

 

Hang in there my friend.

RS

[Gridley]

DaveB, you are stabilizing and doing much better.  The last thing you need is another change.  The thing you need most is stability.

[Rosetta]

HI Dave.  A big hug for you.  From outside your head: you really are improving.  Please don't change anything.  It can only hurt you.

 

I feel so down in a wave that it seems like I am living in two realities -- one where I am optimistic and one where I am not at all.  I try to remember the optimistic reality when I'm very discouraged.  Your thoughts about wishing you could be lucky and have a short WD illness are exactly my thoughts.   It's natural to doubt yourself in a wave.  I suppose I have nothing to do with my doubt because I can't take another med.  I don't think about going back to Zoloft.  I guess it's because I felt so terrible on it at the end.  I have no good feelings about it.  I was either in tachyphylaxis or close to serotonin syndrome.  I'm sorry you are feeling bad today.

 

Rosetta

 

 

[DaveB]

34 minutes ago, RachelSusan said:

Hi Dave,

 

We all heal differently. I saw your post on Justin's thread and I too am envious because it didn't happen for me like it did for him.  But it did happen, I eventually  became stable.  Don't despair, you will feel better.

 

Was your question about going back to Zoloft a rhetorical question, or are you asking for an opinion?

 

Hang in there my friend.

RS

 

Not really rhetorical...maybe dumb, but making sure everyone still feels the same that I can stabilize on Paxil. 

 

36 minutes ago, Gridley said:

DaveB, you are stabilizing and doing much better.  The last thing you need is another change.  The thing you need most is stability.

 

I know, I would have said the same thing, but today is not good and I am pretty discouraged. 

 

29 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

HI Dave.  A big hug for you.  From outside your head: you really are improving.  Please don't change anything.  It can only hurt you.

 

I feel so down in a wave that it seems like I am living in two realities -- one where I am optimistic and one where I am not at all.  I try to remember the optimistic reality when I'm very discouraged.  Your thoughts about wishing you could be lucky and have a short WD illness are exactly my thoughts.   It's natural to doubt yourself in a wave.  I suppose I have nothing to do with my doubt because I can't take another med. 

 

Exactly, two realities, sometimes within the same few hours. So frustrating!

[Rosetta]

3 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

Exactly, two realities, sometimes within the same few hours. So frustrating!

 

I know, I've been waking up to pretty intense anxiety the last few days and having a strange feeling in the middle of the day.  Then, I'm overly tired early at night.  None of this is terrible or terrifying, but if I don't keep my fear under control it seems to be likely to make me feel some pretty severe anxiety.  The strange feeling -- I think it might be a feeling of normality!!  Maybe what I thought was normality before wasn't and this is something even closer to normality, but it's been so long since I felt it that I don't recognize it?  I think it might be boredom or a lack of feeling my mind race.  It's very strange, and it makes me nervous.

[RachelSusan]

Dave,

It's not "dumb" when you don't feel well.  It is desperation.  Everybody else has already said the same thing, but I'll add to it.  I think that making a change now would do more harm than it would help. Just my opinion though.  Like Rosetta said, you are improving.  Read back to your posts at the beginning of January, you will see you have come a long way from how you were feeling back then.

RS

[Dalalea]

4 hours ago, DaveB said:

not sure why or what has changed as I had been feeling so much more stable.

It is frustrating but look at your words. You have been feeling more stable. It's just a wave that will lessen soon. I say don't change anything. You've just had a lot of change recently. Praying you get some relief soon!

[DaveB]

You guys are awesome, sorry I have been so negative. It just seem like people that go back on ADs either get better within a month or two or it doesn’t work and they continue struggling indefinitely. I am very worried I am in the latter category. Nearly 9 months on Paxil now.

[DaveB]

Another really tough morning. Not sure what happened, like someone flipped a switch and all the anxiety I was improving from cane rushing back.

[DaveB]

On 2/22/2018 at 9:51 AM, DaveB said:

 

Thanks Ali, this was just the reminder I needed! I loved your "creative editing!" Things have been so bad over this last year, every-time i get hit by a wave I panic and wonder if it is all going to come crashing down around me again. Yesterday actually ended up being just fine. Anxiety left about mid morning for a few hours, then came back a little for an afternoon visit to leave again and I actually had a pretty nice evening. Woke again with a pretty strong cortisol morning, not sure why this has been worse the last few days

(probably better than yesterday though). Need to remember that I am doing much better overall and that even if the mornings are hard with anxiety, it never lasts the whole day anymore. I am working on my caffeine and sugar, weaning down per week, hoping that helps. 

 

 

Then yesterday it pretty much did, honestly don't remember the last time anxiety stayed all day without some pretty nice breaks. This is very discouraging! 

[Rosetta]

It's restructuring in the brain.  No matter how many times I read about how the brain activates new uptake structures and "too much" serotonin is removed from between the synapses, when I feel bad, I feel desperate.  

 

We are supposed to feel this way in the face of danger.  Our brains are designed to keep us alive when the tiger is getting close.  There is no time for thought or consideration when we are about to be eaten.  We must act without much thought.  I believe that's what may be happening to us, Dave.  We aren't smelling or hearing the tiger without realizing that he's there, but our brains are setting off the alarm when something changes in the neurotransmitter systems.  It's automatic panic.  

 

I find myself looking for a reason, and there is always something that could be the reason for my panic -- the cat has fleas, the milk is almost gone, the car is nearly out of gas -- what is it this time?  Granted, these are ridiculous reasons for panic.  Nonetheless, the adrenaline courses through me, and I can barely stop it.  

 

Tell yourself "There are no tigers.  There will be no tragedy.   Whatever is "wrong" can be fixed.  Whatever I don't have I can live without.  Doing the minimum is ok; in fact, it is the best thing to do right now.  Doing too much is the problem.  Breathe.  Relax.  You are safe; completely and utterly safe."

[DaveB]

On 2/22/2018 at 5:25 AM, AliG said:

PS. I would work towards getting the caffeine and sugar out of your life ! Sorry, I know it hurts but it has so much more of an effect, than you could possibly even imagine. Possibly, time to make the break ! LOL    

 

Ali

 

I agree I need to do this, how long after cutting caffeine and sugar would you expect until I saw positive results? I expect there will be some withdrawal, maybe feeling worse for a while?

[DaveB]

43 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

It's restructuring in the brain.  No matter how many times I read about how the brain activates new uptake structures and "too much" serotonin is removed from between the synapses, when I feel bad, I feel desperate.  

 

We are supposed to feel this way in the face of danger.  Our brains are designed to keep us alive when the tiger is getting close.  There is no time for thought or consideration when we are about to be eaten.  We must act without much thought.  I believe that's what may be happening to us, Dave.  We aren't smelling or hearing the tiger without realizing that he's there, but our brains are setting off the alarm when something changes in the neurotransmitter systems.  It's automatic panic.  

 

I find myself looking for a reason, and there is always something that could be the reason for my panic -- the cat has fleas, the milk is almost gone, the car is nearly out of gas -- what is it this time?  Granted, these are ridiculous reasons for panic.  Nonetheless, the adrenaline courses through me, and I can barely stop it.  

 

Tell yourself "There are no tigers.  There will be no tragedy.   Whatever is "wrong" can be fixed.  Whatever I don't have I can live without.  Doing the minimum is ok; in fact, it is the best thing to do right now.  Doing too much is the problem.  Breathe.  Relax.  You are safe; completely and utterly safe."

 

Thank you so much Rosetta, your words are such a comfort to me. I think my big problem yesterday could have been that I was frustrated being in a wave and saw someone else who got better VERY quickly and REALLY want that to be me. I need to compare myself with me and not others, and if I do that I can't deny improvements that have taken place the last 2 months. 

[powerback]

7 minutes ago, DaveB said:

 

I agree I need to do this, how long after cutting caffeine and sugar would you expect until I saw positive results? I expect there will be some withdrawal, maybe feeling worse for a while?

how much coffee do you drink dave ,you'll defo have withdrawls from sugar .

I'm not sure you should quit sugar cold turkey ,itl be too much with everything else .

DO a taper ,sugar is in everything .

[DaveB]

15 minutes ago, powerback said:

how much coffee do you drink dave ,you'll defo have withdrawls from sugar .

I'm not sure you should quit sugar cold turkey ,itl be too much with everything else .

DO a taper ,sugar is in everything .

I should have clarified not a sugar CT. I don’t drink coffee, two 32 oz Dr Peppers a day that I would like to cut due to caffeine and sugar. So not cut sugar completely, just get rid of my worst offenders. This week I cut down to 1 32oz and 1 20oz.