DaveB: trying to stop a roller coaster year

[DaveB]

3 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

 

Hey Utah 49.  You might consider a supportive break if possible sometime now or in the near future.  I guess I lucked out being alone through most of my severe stuff.......as far as the W/D goes.  Supportive people around......most didn't ask too many questions.......and I explained as well as I could knowing they wouldn't quite get it.  It went okay that way.  And I still have those friends and family in my life to this day.........amazing!  I wasn't working and didn't have small kids at home.........still.........life doesn't stand still for any of us during this time.

 

  You would be real lucky to find a hospital that gives you a break from the anxiety.........other than another pill or a cold turkey.  I mean talk to your wife and all.  Family out of state who somewhat understand?  A no pressure retreat of sorts........maybe that's just dreaming........but imagine.  Brainstorm.   I think we all have the "I want to go back on meds" syndrome........especially in the first year or two.  The W/D last resort of "I have to go back on something".  Part of neuroemotions I believe.  It passes.    I mean I just wonder if you have considered.........even 2 weeks or something.........of a bit of a break from work and family.  Only guessing but it might serve you all well......employer, family, and self.  Just a thought.  Anything that will keep you at your best "semi functional" for the long haul.  Medication reactions can be a good explanation to friends and family who may never quite grasp the whole concept.

 

There is a topic here at surviving antidepressants somewhere........maybe in "off topic" that I will revive if I can find it.  Just a virtual retreat anyway.  I'm sure many might enjoy it.  Then there's the swearing topic.  It used to just make me laugh to go there and swear.  Good to find some, even bad humor, is better than none. 

 

Sounds like you are doing great and getting some great input.  Keep up the hard work.

 

Best, hugs

 

mmt

 

 

 

I wish a "retreat" was in the cards, but I own 3 car dealerships (just opened my 3rd) and now is simply not the time. Though next week I am taking my family to Hawaii, I plan on doing a lot of self-care and exercise while there, that should help. I was REALLY looking forward to this trip when I booked it in December and was perfectly fine mentally. Now I guess I will simply have to make the best of it!

[Altostrata]

On 7/6/2017 at 8:52 AM, Utah49er said:

 

Good advice thank you. So my daughter is sick and I was up with her a bunch last night. When I was up in the middle of the night, I felt almost completely normal zero to minimum anxiety. Then I slept to my alarm at 8AM, and when I woke the anxiety hit hard...but when I was up at 3 and then again at 6 I felt almost no anxiety. Is there any reason this would be? 

 

Had you taken 300mg pregabalin at the usual time?

 

On 7/6/2017 at 8:58 AM, Utah49er said:

 

Yes, powder in a capsule. So divide my current dose? You are not talking about tapering yet, correct?

 

I am talking about dividing the 600mg pregabalin you take every day into smaller doses to take more frequently.

 

Did you suffer any effects from not having pregabalin for a couple of days?

[manymoretodays]

11 hours ago, Utah49er said:

 

I wish a "retreat" was in the cards, but I own 3 car dealerships (just opened my 3rd) and now is simply not the time. Though next week I am taking my family to Hawaii, I plan on doing a lot of self-care and exercise while there, that should help. I was REALLY looking forward to this trip when I booked it in December and was perfectly fine mentally. Now I guess I will simply have to make the best of it!

 

Yes.  You Can make the best of it.  Your family Hawaii trip.  Get some rest.  Do some reading and planning.   Aloha!

 

I do encourage you to talk with your wife a bit........still........as far as what you are really looking at here.  Just guessing, well, a somewhat more educated(than I used to be on these matters) guess......... is that you may have to shift perceptions on the short term gains now, in light of the long term gains later.....  I hope that makes some sense to you.  Upwardly mobile and conforming to expectations really is what caused my "situational" somewhat crisis.........way back when, when I just didn't know better.  Well.......that was part of it.  These things can be really complicated and complex.......or simple.    And led me to "believe" for a long time the myth of medical/pharmacological management of life.

 

That wasn't quite what I had in mind........as far as opening another car dealership goes.  Alas......what is done is done.  I wish you utmost success in delegating, yet reaping the profits.    And there WILL be many successes to come........

 

Best,  peace, love, recovery/healing, and......growth

 

mmt

 

back to the nuts and bolts so to speak.....

 

9 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Had you taken 300mg pregabalin at the usual time?

 

 

I am talking about dividing the 600mg pregabalin you take every day into smaller doses to take more frequently.

 

Did you suffer any effects from not having pregabalin for a couple of days?

 

 

[DaveB]

9 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Had you taken 300mg pregabalin at the usual time?

 

 

I am talking about dividing the 600mg pregabalin you take every day into smaller doses to take more frequently.

 

Did you suffer any effects from not having pregabalin for a couple of days?

 

I got an emergency supply of the pregabalin, so I only missed one 300mg dose. I would normally be trying your suggestion of dividing doses, but I don't feel I am really getting any relief anymore from the 11AM 300mgs dose, so I am not sure dividing it would help any.

 

Shouldn't I be getting better in my stabilization attempt after a month, not worse? This week I have had crippling anxiety pretty much all day, except for when I sleep.  Is it possible the 20mg dose of Paxil is too much for me...or too little? Even if it is too much, am I better off staying at the 20mgs in hope my sensitized nervous system will eventually desensitize, rather than taper and risk what taht may cause? Is it kind of a "well 20mgs is probably too much, but what is done is done," kind of a thing?

[DaveB]

On 7/6/2017 at 10:47 PM, bubble said:

 

 

15 hours ago, KarenB said:

A month is not long where w/d is concerned.  The stabilised sleep is a VERY good sign that further stabilisation will come.  As we have said

Have you tried this yet? 

Have you made a self-care plan yet? 

 

Shouldn't I be getting better in my stabilization attempt after a month, not worse? This week I have had crippling anxiety pretty much all day, except for when I sleep.  Is it possible the 20mg dose of Paxil is too much for me...or too little? Even if it is too much, am I better off staying at the 20mgs in hope my sensitized nervous system will eventually desensitize, rather than taper and risk what that may cause? Is it kind of a "well 20mgs is probably too much, but what is done is done," kind of a thing?

[bubble]

There are no hard and fast rules here but after all these years of personal experience and following a great number of stories for almost 4 years now, staying put and staying the course seems to be the best bet.

 

You asked me how long it would take me to stabilize. At first my doctor would put me on the latest AD on the market believing it was better. And I still managed to stabilize at full dose of that new. Each time it took longer and longer but it was always a matter of months: 2, 3, last time 4. Previous experience taught me to be patient and I was just grateful that things were not getting any worse even when it took a great while to start feeling any better.

 

Did you read about windows and waves? That was one of the most important topics for me. It's very important to understand that the recovery is not linear and the brain heals itself in the windows and waves pattern. Something akin to assembling the rubic cube. Just like you are describing: getting a bit better and then getting worse again with good periods getting longer and symptoms getting less severe but very gradually. Impossible to notice from one day to the next.

As much as Pregabalin doesn't help in reducing your anxiety what Alto is trying to say is that it might be making it worse as it is wearing off. This is called interdose withdrawal. So spreading out the doses might eliminate this interdose withdrawal and thus reduce anxiety. It's your call. 

 

I would say that your stabilization is actually going well as it is to be expected.

 

You might also want to check this:

Maybe you will also benefit from the last two posts on the Best of SA I shared today:

 

And while I'm at it, here is the post that made it all clear for me  It's short and well worth the effort.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2017 by bubble

[DaveB]

46 minutes ago, bubble said:

There are no hard and fast rules here but after all these years of personal experience and following a great number of stories for almost 4 years now, staying put and staying the course seems to be the best bet.

 

You asked me how long it would take me to stabilize. At first my doctor would put me on the latest AD on the market believing it was better. And I still managed to stabilize at full dose of that new. Each time it took longer and longer but it was always a matter of months: 2, 3, last time 4. Previous experience taught me to be patient and I was just grateful that things were not getting any worse even when it took a great while to start feeling any better.

 

Did you read about windows and waves? That was one of the most important topics for me. It's very important to understand that the recovery is not linear and the brain heals itself in the windows and waves pattern. Something akin to assembling the rubic cube. Just like you are describing: getting a bit better and then getting worse again with good periods getting longer and symptoms getting less severe but very gradually. Impossible to notice from one day to the next.

As much as Pregabalin doesn't help in reducing your anxiety what Alto is trying to say is that it might be making it worse as it is wearing off. This is called interdose withdrawal. So spreading out the doses might eliminate this interdose withdrawal and thus reduce anxiety. It's your call. 

 

I would say that your stabilization is actually going well as it is to be expected.

 

You might also want to check this:

Maybe you will also benefit from the last two posts on the Best of SA I shared today:

 

And while I'm at it, here is the post that made it all clear for me  It's short and well worth the effort.

 

 

 

Those posts were very relevant and helpful to me...THANK YOU!

 

I have never really messed with medication before, is it really ok to cut into a capsule and split the dose yourself? Wouldn't I risk screwing something up and making my dose even more inconsistent? 

[DaveB]

07/07/2017

 

Friday, day off work

 

8:00AM - Wake up to alarm, little to no anxiety (not normal for mornings, but I'l take it).

9:00AM - Take 20mgs Paxil, 2G Omega 3 Fish Oil, Magnesium Citrate 250mgs, Multivitamin, Probiotic

9:00 - 10 AM - Play Tennis with 10YO, still feeling ok anxiety wise

11AM - 300mgs Pregabalin

10AM - Noon - Take the kids to Tennis Lessons and the park (anxiety hits at about 10, does not quit for the rest of the day..until maybe 10-11PM).

Noon - 2PM - "relax" (no relaxing with anxiety, just racing thoughts of how bad I am feeling) at home watching a TV show with daughter. 

2PM - 4PM - Weeding the yard (anxiety still high, but when I am busy I notice it less, which is good).

5PM - Dinner with Wife (anxiety still high)

7-9PM - Spiderman movie (I enjoyed it, though my anxiety was high, thoughts were racing, and was just overall restless). 

11PM - 300MGs Pregabalin
10PM - MIdnight - Spent time with my wife, anxiety was lower.

 

Pretty typical of my week this week, though the morning break from anxiety for an hour or so was new. Kind of happened today as well, though to a lesser extent. Anxiety high all day again so far today after waking at 7AM. All meds, doses and supplements are the same. 

 

This telling anyone anything? Just keep plugging through this horrific anxiety (honestly may be as bad as I have had in the last 6 months, and therefore my life)? Along with the anxiety I get some physical symptoms like shaking hands, inner restlessness, muscle tension, burning eyes. Loose stool and diarrhea is less, and sleep continues to be good. I honestly am just plugging through each day excited for the time I can go back to sleep. 

[bubble]

This was the most difficult part for me too when I just came here. I've been doing it now for almost 4 years and I forgot how it seemed like flying to the moon at the time

 

What can I say? We are all doing it and it works great! I've come down from 2 mg of Xanax to 0.625 mg using liquid and taking my daily dose in 5 parts because Xanax has an extremely short half life. It's so accurate. I don't know how this method was developed (maybe by one of the doctors) but it really works. Some people do experience certain hiccups when transitioning to the liquid form but it settles down quickly. There are very, very few risks involved because everything is done in a very careful and control manner (much more so than psychiatrist normally do it) and if anything happens we can always back of with little to no damage.

[bubble]

Since anxiety hit just before taking Pregabalin this supports Alto's theory...

 

Regardless of the cause we just have to deal with it the best we can. This is a time to practice, try out and build your toolkit of non-drug coping skills. There are a lot of ideas here:

I actually like what you are doing: being physically active (but if it is too intense it can ramp up anxiety. Also our levels of what is too intense change drastically. Former marathon runners can find walking too stimulating all of a sudden!) It would really be strange to blame it on tennis with a 10 YO but we can never know. Maybe pay attention to correlation between physical activity and anxiety...

 

I love weeding and it usually helps in calming me down and grounding. But I have to go to my mom who has a big plot and weed for hours for that effect  We all have something: I need my long nature walks, taking pictures of flowers, body scan mindfulness meditation, some yoga poses, swimming, deep breathing, epsom salt baths...

 

I was reading something and came across yet another post by Rhiannon which seems to me quite appropriate for you at this moment (and anyone who comes across your thread):

I'm a strong proponent of taking your time and only starting a taper when you're feeling stable, and staying stable during the taper process by taking it slow and holding whenever things seem to be speeding up. And holding for as long as it takes.

 

Rather than reinvent the wheel, here's something I wrote in a conversation on the benzowithdrawal board:

 

Here's the post I was replying to: "After a partial reinstatement (to .5mg) in order to keep working after crashing going from .25 mg. klonopin to .2 mg too fast, I have not been able to get a taper going now matter how glacially slow I go.

 

Struggled my way down to .43 since resuming taper in February, then started holding in June after what I thought were minor problems. Held for nearly 9 weeks, then figured as long as I'm suffering I might as well be cutting something.

 

Started cutting at the ridiculously slow rate of 1% every 28 days. After only three days of cutting at this rate, I noticed things getting worse, kept going till the 7th day which would be 1/4% and it started getting really bad. Put back the 1/4% and hopefully the new symptoms have died down...Still in monitoring mode on that.

 

While I realize I probably shouldn't have started cutting while I wasn't completely stable, it seems really absurd to have no improvement after holding 9 weeks, and then reacting to such miniscule cuts.

 

Guess everything has really changed since the reinstatement. My original taper from 1 mg to .25 went relatively smooth"

 

and my response:

 

It's not absurd. It's how it is. Your body/brain is telling you that it's still hurting from everything else that's happened as a result of the ups and downs in the past, and it needs more healing time. Brains don't grow and heal fast.

 

There are two things that I think people need to "get" about these drugs and what they do to us and how we heal.

 

First: When you take a drug that screws around with the chemistry of your brain, your body/brain sees this as a life or death situation. We are not designed to have our brains screwed around with. Your brain responds by, among other things, killing some cells and growing new ones. It turns off some genes and turns other ones on. There are dozens of different kinds of cells in the brain and they all have to adapt and change when the chemistry is screwed with. Your body/brain tries to alter itself, to wrap itself around this new artificial chemistry. These are not small changes. These are major, traumatic adaptations.

 

Each time the drugs are switched around--whether they are cut, or increased, or changed to other meds, et cetera--whatever processes have already been happening have to try to stop and go the other direction. (Or maybe a couple of other directions.)

 

This is not simple. This causes more trauma, more chemical chaos, more damage. Processes that cannot be quickly halted and are already out of control, try to counteract themselves using other processes that are very imperfect as well. (Imagine the LA freeway system if all of a sudden everyone had to stop and go the other direction, but there were no lights and no traffic cops. And everybody's brakes and steering were already kind of busted and unstable to begin with.)

 

All the chemistry of the brain is connected. Every reaction affects other reactions downstream.

 

So this is huge. We SO underestimate the complexity of our brains. They are incredibly complex, comparable to a jungle in complexity. (Much more complex than the LA freeways.) Everything affects everything else in feedback loops upon feedback loops.

 

Screwing around with neurotransmitters is a BIG DEAL.

 

The second thing: Our brains do NOT know how to do this.

 

See, with other kinds of healing and adaptation, we take so much for granted. Our bodies know how to deal with changes in food, water, with traumatic injuries to our skin and bones and organs, with stress and survival issues--all of these things, we have encountered zillions and zillions of times over the past five billion years of evolution, so we have developed efficient mechanisms for balancing and healing. NOT WITH THESE DRUGS.

 

No brain of any organism on the planet has ever encountered anything like what these drugs do to us, ever before. What mechanisms our brains have to deal with changes in neurotransmitters are designed for much subtler alterations--alterations due to hormonal changes in puberty, for example, and pregnancy, and with aging; alterations due to changes in patterns of light and darkness with the seasons; that sort of thing.

 

These drugs are to the natural variations that we're designed for, as the atomic bomb is to a rockslide.

 

So--the point of this whole lecture is--IT'S NOT ABSURD. Listen to your body and brain. Give it the time it needs to heal and to adapt. There's chaos, there is the brain equivalent of scars, there's all kinds of perturbation happening. It's going to take time for things to settle down and heal.

 

You can go ahead and push through and let your brain cope as best it can until you get all the way off the meds. Likely you will be symptomatic the whole time. Then once off the meds you can go through the prolonged process of healing from the chaos and damage that has happened.

 

Or you can allow enough healing time now, and then, when things are healed and settled down, start a very slow (it will have to be slower than ever before, because of the previous damage) taper that will allow your brain to heal and recover and adapt as you go, without inducing so much chaos.

 

At least, this is how it seems to me. This is the paradigm that I operate from. It seems to be the one that best fits the observed facts of the experiences people describe.

 

So--do what you wish, I've given up trying to get people to understand the importance and urgency of respecting the complexity of our brains and the seriousness of what these drugs do to them. I write and write but it seems like people just don't want to hear.

 

But if nothing else, please don't kick yourself because you don't seem to be healing fast enough. This is NOTHING like healing a broken bone.

 

In fact I almost cringe when people on this forum use the word "healing", about the healing from this kind of trauma caused by the chemistry of psych drugs--not because it's not healing, but because it SO doesn't fit all the assumptions we have about how healing is supposed to go.

 

And people suffer, and fear, because they know intuitively that this isn't what healing is supposed to feel like.

 

I almost wish we could call it something else so people would understand, this is not something our bodies know how to do! they're improvising, doing their best, but it's not efficient, it's not always effective, and we need to allow lots of care, and patience, and time, and adjust our expectations.

 

And be gentle. Work with our body/brains, rather than fighting them.

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

[bubble]

Another great thing posted by our dear Shep: very powerful and very simple

 

4-7-8 Breathing: Health Benefits & Demonstration

 

 

[DaveB]

12 hours ago, bubble said:

There are no hard and fast rules here but after all these years of personal experience and following a great number of stories for almost 4 years now, staying put and staying the course seems to be the best bet.

 

You asked me how long it would take me to stabilize. At first my doctor would put me on the latest AD on the market believing it was better. And I still managed to stabilize at full dose of that new. Each time it took longer and longer but it was always a matter of months: 2, 3, last time 4. Previous experience taught me to be patient and I was just grateful that things were not getting any worse even when it took a great while to start feeling any better.

 

Did you read about windows and waves? That was one of the most important topics for me. It's very important to understand that the recovery is not linear and the brain heals itself in the windows and waves pattern. Something akin to assembling the rubic cube. Just like you are describing: getting a bit better and then getting worse again with good periods getting longer and symptoms getting less severe but very gradually. Impossible to notice from one day to the next.

As much as Pregabalin doesn't help in reducing your anxiety what Alto is trying to say is that it might be making it worse as it is wearing off. This is called interdose withdrawal. So spreading out the doses might eliminate this interdose withdrawal and thus reduce anxiety. It's your call. 

 

I would say that your stabilization is actually going well as it is to be expected.

 

You might also want to check this:

Maybe you will also benefit from the last two posts on the Best of SA I shared today:

 

And while I'm at it, here is the post that made it all clear for me  It's short and well worth the effort.

 

 

 

Question, would this "interdose withdrawal" cause me to not be able to stabilize? Or just increase my anxiety before the next dose? I really wish I was not on the Lyrica, but I am way too far down the path to quit taking it abruptly (even though long-term it is going to be too expensive anyway).

[bubble]

I would say you will stabilize regardless (you already are

 

And we would in  no way advise quitting Lyrica abruptly or even tapering under the current circumstances. To reduce anxiety Alto just recommended spacing out doses.

 

Your worst enemy at the moment seems to be impatience to get well asap. Its very understandable but that's just not how this process works and trying to speed it up is a sure way of making it longer and nastier.

 

But you are doing well in controlling this impatience (which isn't easy). Your next window will give you more strength on this path.

 

Although you think you are doing bad because you are semi functional, things could actually be a lot worse. I've also been a strong person taking care of myself and others so my family was utterly shocked when at one point I got reduced to a helpless creature lying in bad and crying Please help me. They couldn't believe their eyes. I couldn't believe it myself. So believe me you are doing well.

 

Did you watch that short video clip I sent? I usually tell people that we advise these non-drug ways of coping with symptoms not because we are some new age granola hippies as Jan Carol put it but because we want to survive and there's more science proving that these ancient techniques work especially in states like we are going through.

[DaveB]

7 hours ago, bubble said:

I would say you will stabilize regardless (you already are

 

And we would in  no way advise quitting Lyrica abruptly or even tapering under the current circumstances. To reduce anxiety Alto just recommended spacing out doses.

 

Your worst enemy at the moment seems to be impatience to get well asap. Its very understandable but that's just not how this process works and trying to speed it up is a sure way of making it longer and nastier.

 

But you are doing well in controlling this impatience (which isn't easy). Your next window will give you more strength on this path.

 

Although you think you are doing bad because you are semi functional, things could actually be a lot worse. I've also been a strong person taking care of myself and others so my family was utterly shocked when at one point I got reduced to a helpless creature lying in bad and crying Please help me. They couldn't believe their eyes. I couldn't believe it myself. So believe me you are doing well.

 

Did you watch that short video clip I sent? I usually tell people that we advise these non-drug ways of coping with symptoms not because we are some new age granola hippies as Jan Carol put it but because we want to survive and there's more science proving that these ancient techniques work especially in states like we are going through.

 

Yes, I have already found the breathing technique to be helpful. I had an early morning cortisol dump at 6:15 today...this was the one thing I could point to that was getting better, so this was discouraging.

[DaveB]

Ugh...every time I think I have hit the absolute peak of anxiety, it goes to another level. I really need some encouragement!

[Finn25]

Hang in there Utah. One of the toughest things for me to do especially in the beginning is hold pat. I'm a fixer by nature so it's hard to wrap my mind around doing nothing when there's something obviously broken. You keep thinking there's got to be SOMETHING I can do to repair what's wrong. But if start tinkering with the few knobs and dials you do have (dosages), the risk of making things worse is just too high. You've got to just let your body do that job of adjusting. It's brutal I know. But it gets better. I sure hope you're at the worst of it right now and you'll get a window soon.

[DaveB]

1 hour ago, Finn25 said:

Hang in there Utah. One of the toughest things for me to do especially in the beginning is hold pat. I'm a fixer by nature so it's hard to wrap my mind around doing nothing when there's something obviously broken. You keep thinking there's got to be SOMETHING I can do to repair what's wrong. But if start tinkering with the few knobs and dials you do have (dosages), the risk of making things worse is just too high. You've got to just let your body do that job of adjusting. It's brutal I know. But it gets better. I sure hope you're at the worst of it right now and you'll get a window soon.

 

Thanks bro, I really appreciate it. I feel our sad stories are similar and you being on the other side gives me great hope!

[Finn25]

48 minutes ago, Utah49er said:

 

Thanks bro, I really appreciate it. I feel our sad stories are similar and you being on the other side gives me great hope!

 

Any time man. I was looking back at the calendar and remember a really bad week the first week of Nov where my anxiety and OCD-like thought trails really flared and made it hard to function. That would have been 10-11 weeks after I restarted 10 mg of Lexapro and about 3 weeks after I updosed to 20 mg. After that week, I got some  pretty good relief from symptoms and I've only had a few days since then that would compare to that week. Obviously your stabilization path will be different but you just have to fake it til you make it. 

[DaveB]

I just hope I haven't screwed up my stabilization with the addition of Lyrica. Never been on more than one med (Zoloft) my whole life, and it clearly hasn't helped any for anxiety. I would love to just quit it to be honest. Did you ever take any benzodiazepines along the way to help with your anxiety during all the med changes and CNS destabilization? Did you ever have any anxiety blips while on Paxil, or did it pretty much solve your anxiety 100 percent?

Edited July 10, 2017 by DaveB
deleted quote of immediately previous post for readability

[DaveB]

17 hours ago, Finn25 said:

... Obviously your stabilization path will be different but you just have to fake it til you make it. 

 

Also, do you take any supplements? Thanks again bro!

Edited July 10, 2017 by DaveB
trimmed quote to relevant portion

[DaveB]

7 hours ago, Finn25 said:

Hang in there Utah. One of the toughest things for me to do especially in the beginning is hold pat. I'm a fixer by nature so it's hard to wrap my mind around doing nothing when there's something obviously broken. You keep thinking there's got to be SOMETHING I can do to repair what's wrong. But if start tinkering with the few knobs and dials you do have (dosages), the risk of making things worse is just too high. You've got to just let your body do that job of adjusting. It's brutal I know. But it gets better. I sure hope you're at the worst of it right now and you'll get a window soon.

 

Sorry, last question. Did you feel your updosing helped? Or was it just time? My doctor thinks I should go up to 30mgs of Paxil and then 40 after a few weeks on 30 if not stable. I don't want to do this, as I want to try to keep it all the same to stabilize, but like you when you went to 20on Lex, I am just wanting to feel better too!

[Finn25]

4 hours ago, Utah49er said:

 

I just hope I haven't screwed up my stabilization with the addition of Lyrica. Never been on more than one med (Zoloft) my whole life, and it clearly hasn't helped any for anxiety. I would love to just quit it to be honest. Did you ever take any benzodiazepines along the way to help with your anxiety during all the med changes and CNS destabilization? Did you ever have any anxiety blips while on Paxil, or did it pretty much solve your anxiety 100 percent?

I did take Zanax sparingly, usually 0.125 mg, but only in emergency situations. This was mainly when my insomnia was at it's worst and I had to sleep or I wouldn't be able to go to work the next day. After discovering SA and studying up on psyche drugs, I've avoided it almost altogether. I think I've only taken one 0.125 mg dose in the last 10 months or so.  I really look at it now like it's an absolute last resort.

 

I never had any issues with anxiety at all with Paxil. Any anxiety I had during that time was during situations that would be considered normal I think. Truth be told, I could have probably said the same thing about myself pre-Paxil, which is what really stings about the whole situation I'm in, but like ShakeyJerr said, I haven't found a reliable low-mileage time-machine yet.

 

4 hours ago, Utah49er said:

 

Also, do you take any supplements? Thanks again bro!

 

I need to add these to my signature:

2000 IU Vitamin D (I took this long before crashing off Paxil)

2 g Fish Oil

400 IU Vitamin E

500 mg Vitamin C

275 mg Chelated Magnesium

 

1 hour ago, Utah49er said:

 

Sorry, last question. Did you feel your updosing helped? Or was it just time? My doctor thinks I should go up to 30mgs of Paxil and then 40 after a few weeks on 30 if not stable. I don't want to do this, as I want to try to keep it all the same to stabilize, but like you when you went to 20on Lex, I am just wanting to feel better too!

 

That's a really tough one for me to answer. This is my opinion, but I feel as though I was, and still do have to go through some tough symptoms strictly because I stopped the one drug I took for 12 years. That's a 12 year old plant trellis I ripped out from under my brain. So a part of me feels like I just needed the time for my CNS to get back on it's feet regardless of the Lex dosage. Now may be completely wrong and my updose really did help me turn the corner, but I'm just telling you what my gut tells me. 

 

 It's so hard to be forward looking when you're a prisoner of the moment, but the more you updose, the more you have to taper later. So my advice would be to give it at least a week or two before updosing. The window of relief you need may be right around the corner. I'm sure hoping for you, bro!

[DaveB]

I know...don't I wish I had that time machine right now! Thanks for your input, story, and advice. I really appreciate it.

 

Maybe a mod can answer my next question. People start and stop these meds all the time right? Like due to pregnancy, etc. Also I have heard that the average number of these tried before they settle on one is 3...so what the hell? What is this happening to me? I mean, this is the 1st time I have ever tried to quit zoloft, which was the 1st and only psych drug I had ever taken. So why this crazy reaction when I simply tried to restart it after 2 and a half months?

Edited July 10, 2017 by DaveB
deleted quote of immediately previous post for readability

[DaveB]

Well, off to Hawaii. Hoping this helps me get the window I so desperately need! I was Doug ok this time last week, then had a terrible week, not sure why, but hoping for a better one.

[KarenB]

There are always those who react much more to psych drugs.  Some people have come here having taken one drug for two days, with no other drug history, and they get thrown into a massive side-effects whirl.  I don't know the scientific reasons why that is, but it does happen.  And yet others seem able to stop and start at whim, and escape with minimal issues.  Random?  Or is it a response by very different individuals to a powerful drug?  Like how a bee sting can kill some people, yet others barely notice them. 

[DaveB]

I am at 5 weeks now holding everything steady and still struggling badly...should I be worried? My anxiety is still just really high and I have racing thoughts all day. It does seem to avail a bit really late at night like 9PM. Am I dooing something wrong? I just desperately need to stavalize, been 6 months now of pure hell.

[bubble]

After all the massive blows your brain took since October last year 5 weeks is still very early days.

 

The fact that you are not getting progressively worse and that you can sleep is most we can hope for at this stage. 

 

I would only get such very brief periods of relief like you describe over the first few months after reinstatement. Gradually they started getting longer. That's how it goes. It takes much more time than any of us can imagine but it does happen. Some people end up bed ridden and house bound so in comparison you are doing great although not so great if you compare yourself to your usual functioning.

 

Time. Patience. breathing exercises. gentle physical activity. meditation, nature... time and patience.

[DaveB]

4 hours ago, bubble said:

After all the massive blows your brain took since October last year 5 weeks is still very early days.

 

The fact that you are not getting progressively worse and that you can sleep is most we can hope for at this stage. 

 

I would only get such very brief periods of relief like you describe over the first few months after reinstatement. Gradually they started getting longer. That's how it goes. It takes much more time than any of us can imagine but it does happen. Some people end up bed ridden and house bound so in comparison you are doing great although not so great if you compare yourself to your usual functioning.

 

Time. Patience. breathing exercises. gentle physical activity. meditation, nature... time and patience.

 

Thanks bubble, good to hear from others that have been through it. Sometime I worry I actually AM getting progressively worse, but that could be the anxiety. I feel like a 2-3 weeks ago I was doing better. Also I can't help but worry the pregabalin is complicating my recovery and stabilization.

[bubble]

You can always do what Alto advised. I would personally do it.

[Happy2Heal]

18 hours ago, Utah49er said:

I feel like a 2-3 weeks ago I was doing better.

 

 

this is where it REALLY pays to keep a written record of your symptoms.

 

I had a hard time doing this at first, but it's been a real lifesaver.

 

when you have a bad day  it is very easy to forget that you had, in fact, started to see some improvements

 

 

with multiple drugs, dosing times and/ or supplements, it's even more important to keep a written record of what you take, and when

and what your symptoms are (rating them as mild, moderate or severe) and when they occur

 

this will give you a lot of good information as well as reassure you that you are indeed, making progress, even if it's just tiny things that are hard to remember.

 

write them down, and focus on those things that ARE improving; research has shown that focusing on those positive things makes them GROW

 

all the best to you.

[bubble]

Excellent point Happy2Heal!

[DaveB]

So it looks like my insurance has denied coverage for Lyrica, and it is just too expensive to pay cash for. How would you recommend tapering if I had to do it very quickly? Is it even worth tapering if I only have like 15 days worth left? I am REALLY scared where this will put me in my attempt to become stable again. 

[DaveB]

On 7/7/2017 at 11:53 PM, Altostrata said:

 

Had you taken 300mg pregabalin at the usual time?

 

 

I am talking about dividing the 600mg pregabalin you take every day into smaller doses to take more frequently.

 

Did you suffer any effects from not having pregabalin for a couple of days?

 

On 7/8/2017 at 1:34 PM, bubble said:

This was the most difficult part for me too when I just came here. I've been doing it now for almost 4 years and I forgot how it seemed like flying to the moon at the time

 

What can I say? We are all doing it and it works great! I've come down from 2 mg of Xanax to 0.625 mg using liquid and taking my daily dose in 5 parts because Xanax has an extremely short half life. It's so accurate. I don't know how this method was developed (maybe by one of the doctors) but it really works. Some people do experience certain hiccups when transitioning to the liquid form but it settles down quickly. There are very, very few risks involved because everything is done in a very careful and control manner (much more so than psychiatrist normally do it) and if anything happens we can always back of with little to no damage.

 

After observing my symptoms and daily up and downs, it is fairly clear that the pregabalin is probably helping me sleep, and maybe helping with some anxiety, but I am for sure getting a rebound effect as it is wearing off. I have been feeling much more normal then "wham" an hour or two before my next Lyrica dose anxiety hits hard. I have not been on it long and can no longer afford it, can I just drop it entirely and deal with the anxiety for a few days/weeks, or will it throw my CNS off crazy? I am getting kinda tired of the rebound effect and need to get off this drug ASAP due to financial reasons anyway. 

[DaveB]

On 7/7/2017 at 11:53 PM, Altostrata said:

 

Had you taken 300mg pregabalin at the usual time?

 

 

I am talking about dividing the 600mg pregabalin you take every day into smaller doses to take more frequently.

 

Did you suffer any effects from not having pregabalin for a couple of days?

 

If I bite the bullet and keep paying out of pocket for the lyrica until I am stable, will I be unable to stabilize with this rebound anxiety effect happening, or will it eventually happen? My wife is VERY leery of me messing around with making my own liquid lyrica. 

[bubble]

7 hours ago, Utah49er said:

 

 

After observing my symptoms and daily up and downs, it is fairly clear that the pregabalin is probably helping me sleep, and maybe helping with some anxiety, but I am for sure getting a rebound effect as it is wearing off. I have been feeling much more normal then "wham" an hour or two before my next Lyrica dose anxiety hits hard. I have not been on it long and can no longer afford it, can I just drop it entirely and deal with the anxiety for a few days/weeks, or will it throw my CNS off crazy? I am getting kinda tired of the rebound effect and need to get off this drug ASAP due to financial reasons anyway. 

 

I must say that this is unusual reasoning: if just 'waiting' for Lyrica is making your anxiety high can you imagine how high you anxiety will be if you altogether withdraw 600 mgs?

 

3 months is long enough and in you destabilised state anxiety will definitely not last for days, nor weeks but more likely months and it probably won't be only anxiety but host of other symptoms. The only things which is worse than alternating doses and fast tapering is no tapering at all or cold turkeying the drugs.

 

But you are of course free to be your own guinea pig. I can understand the suspicion of people around us but ultimately it is us and not them who will have to live with all the symptoms. And you have already had a glimpse of what that can look like. Unfortunately it can get a lot worse (just check some of the threads here).

 

It's an ugly situation but that's the nature of this game..

[scallywag]

Have you been taking brand-name Lyrica?  If so, will your insurance cover generic pregabalin?