DaveB: trying to stop a roller coaster year

[DaveB]

Another reason why I think going down could help is when I acidentally CTed off the Paxil I felt MUCH better, not worse. I got light headed pretty bad at times, but overall I was much better with it OUT of my system. 

[DaveB]

That and when I did my too fast drop from 60 to 40 msg I felt better on 40 than I did at 60. I get tapering slow when stable, but I am not, and have never been stable and I feel Paxil is doing more harm than good at this point.

[nz11]

4 hours ago, DaveB said:

when I acidentally CTed off the Paxil I felt MUCH better, not worse

Don't be fooled by this.

You are simply being mesmerized by all the fish flapping around while the tide disappears over the horizon.

 

 

[DaveB]

13 hours ago, nz11 said:

Don't be fooled by this.

You are simply being mesmerized by all the fish flapping around while the tide disappears over the horizon.

 

 

 

I appreciate your input, but am not sure what you mean. I guess what I am asking is since my mixup over Christmas has obviously destabilized me again and I am going to have to go through the stabilization process all over again, wouldn’t it be worth seeing if I can stabilize at a lower dose than the 40 mgs I was on before?

[Gridley]

 

A drop from 40mg to 20mg could be very destabilizing.  Yes, taper slowly when stable--but that doesn't mean you should taper fast when unstable.  Taking a chance like this to see if you can stabilize at a lower dose is a roll of the dice I wouldn't take.  It's your decision, but I would hold at 40 until you stabilize--which can take time.   Doing otherwise just delivers another change to your CNS and you've already had your share.

[nz11]

4 hours ago, DaveB said:

am not sure what you mean

What I was saying is the fact that you CT paxil and felt better is an illusion. In time you would have been slammed by withdrawal symptoms which are delayed and it would be very rough.

 

I just want to say that I agree with Gridley in holding at 40mg for now until all has settled down.  You have been on a minimum of 40mg for 5 months now. Dependance is established. To cut 50% and go to 20mg is as Gridley says a  risk and doing so with the intention of using an updose as a safety net to stabilize if things turn sour comes with no guarantees.

Yet your drug sig says you have already done the cut to 20mg as of the 3rd jan.

So you are now on your 3rd day at 20mg right?

Well  its your call.  Let us know how it goes. 

Oh yeah whats happening with the klonopin? Was that a once off or is it ongoing. Maybe could be noted in the drug sig too.

[DaveB]

1 minute ago, nz11 said:

What I was saying is the fact that you CT paxil and felt better is an illusion. In time you would have been slammed by withdrawal symptoms which are delayed and it would be very rough.

 

I just want to say that I agree with Gridley in holding at 40mg for now until all has settled down.  You have been on a minimum of 40mg for 5 months now. Dependance is established. To cut 50% and go to 20mg is as Gridley says a  risk and doing so with the intention of using an updose as a safety net to stabilize if things turn sour comes with no guarantees.

Yet your drug sig says you have already done the cut to 20mg as of the 3rd jan.

So you are now on your 3rd day at 20mg right?

Well  its your call.  Let us know how it goes. 

Oh yeah whats happening with the klonopin? Was that a once off or is it ongoing. Maybe could be noted in the drug sig too.

 

 

2 hours ago, Gridley said:

 

A drop from 40mg to 20mg could be very destabilizing.  Yes, taper slowly when stable--but that doesn't mean you should taper fast when unstable.  Taking a chance like this to see if you can stabilize at a lower dose is a roll of the dice I wouldn't take.  It's your decision, but I would hold at 40 until you stabilize--which can take time.   Doing otherwise just delivers another change to your CNS and you've already had your share.

 

The klonopin was something I took for a couple of weeks in May and then never did again...until right around Christmas that is when I screwed it all up again. I have been taking my Zyprexa and Paxil at night, so last night was my 1st night of 20mgs. The reasoning behind dropping to 20 is that after I dropped from 60 to 40 after a couple of weeks of adjustment I felt a noticeable improvement on 40MGs as opposed to 60. Also when I took klonopin instead of my 40mg dose of paxil on accident, I felt MUCH better, pretty much normal apart from some light-headedness. Because of this, my doctor suggested trying a lower dose when going back to 40mgs after my screw-up was causing so many problems. When I hadn't heard any response on this forum last night, I decided to take his advice and give it a try. Please don't take the fact I went down to 20 as not taking your advice or valuing your opinion, nothing could be further from the truth. I guess the million dollar question now is, would you go back up to 40 or try to ride it out at 20 and see how it goes?

[nz11]

Sorry no one replied to your intended plan of action Dave.

Having said that however there is a link on how to taper paxil and BM laid out what I felt was an excellent plan of attack on 22 dec.

 

Anyway here are my thoughts to the current conundrum so that at least you have one response to have been tabled for consideration. In the absence of others prior to another dosing. Its your call.

1 hour ago, DaveB said:

when I took klonopin instead of my 40mg dose of paxil on accident, I felt MUCH better, pretty much normal apart from some light-headedness.

For the third time, I would  not be reading anything into this ...its an illusion to think you were better off without the paxil. You are deeply addicted to it and its possibly masking a flood of wdl symptoms of prior too fast tapers.

 

First of all If I were you I  would gather up all the klonopin pills put them in a bag and remove them from the property so that mix ups never happen again and even better you never take a klonopin again.

You have what looks to me like serious psychotropic drug exposure for 10 years which includes high doses and switches and unsafe tapers. 

This imo adds up to one sensitized cns or one big psych drug embedded trellis in the brain. A brain that imo is going to be one unhappy camper when 50% of its current drug fix is removed.  Personally I don't think you will pull off a stabilized 50% cut from this back story-ed position. 

If I were you  I would consider going back immediately to the 40mg and stay there to stabilize it could take months.

Having said this I am not a doctor so if you need a doctors expert opinion to follow it sounds like you have it.

Good luck what ever your decision.

keep posting

Wishing you stability. 

Here's a thought if you taper slowly you get to have a life and keep the wife. 

nz11 

 

 

[Gridley]

I would go back to 40mg and hold there until you stabilize, then do a slow taper.  

[nz11]

Dave I don't know what time zone you are in but I'm pretty sure that you would have passed through another dosing.

Are you able to update on what direction you have decided to go.  

You have been in my thoughts.

Wishing you stability 

nz11

[DaveB]

13 hours ago, nz11 said:

Dave I don't know what time zone you are in but I'm pretty sure that you would have passed through another dosing.

Are you able to update on what direction you have decided to go.  

You have been in my thoughts.

Wishing you stability 

nz11

 

Wow, I really appreciate you thinking of me and checking up on me. I talked it over extensively with my wife, I agree with you guys that I would be able to stabilize much quicker going back to 40mgs, she disagreed saying that since my large drop from 60 to 40 resulted in much more stability in December than I had experienced previously, that a drop to 20 had a good chance of doing the same. I told her that 40 to 20 is a much steeper drop as it is not 33% but 50%, and maybe as a compromise we should go to 30 or 35. She got really mad that I wouldn't just "do what the doctor is telling you to do." So to keep her happy I am still at 20 mgs, doing ok for now (certainly not great) but to be honest VERY scared of what may be coming. Hopefully I can still find support here as this site has been a critical lifeline for me in this process. Again I am humbled and touched that you have kept me in your thoughts and I appreciate it more than you know!

[Gridley]

I hope it goes well for you.  Please keep checking in.

[AliG]

On 1/5/2018 at 11:44 PM, Gridley said:

I would go back to 40mg and hold there until you stabilize, then do a slow taper.  

 

I have to agree with both Gridley and  nz11 - a 50% drop is dangerous and ill- advised. As it's only been a few doses, I would go back up to 40 mg.

[nz11]

Looks like Gridley ....and AliG just snuck in before me..... 

Don’t worry you will always find support here on this site regardless. It’s not easy out there.

 

wishing you stability and strength not sure ‘Happy wife happy life ‘ has been tested like this before.

nz11

 

[RachelSusan]

Hi DaveB,

I have been following your posts. I'm checking in to see how you are doing.  I am keeping my fingers crossed that you are doing OK. Never fear, you will always find support here.

Rachel

PS - I answered your post on my page. Thank you so much for coming by my page.

[brassmonkey]

The actual dose amount is only a small part of the WD equation. Over the years of taking the medication your body had physically adapted to it.  Most of your serotonin receptors have been turned off (at 40mgai Paxil about 87% of the receptors have been turned off) and your body is accustomed to this, but requires a large amount of paxil in order to understand how to continue to function.  With out the paxil your body can't work right and causes WD symptoms. 

 

By changing the dose around the body gets confused because it has adapted to a certain amount of the drug and if it doesn't get it things go haywire.  Frequent changes in the amount of drug also sensitizes the body to the drug so the results of a change become more and more unpredictable with each change.  This change may have been easy, but the next could send you down the rabbit hole, and you don't want to go there. The body requires stability in dosing in order to slowly undo the physical changes and return the body to it's normal drug free condition.

 

In all most every case of CT, rapid taper or frequent large changes there is a "honeymoon period" during which the person feels better than they have for years.  That honeymoon period usually lasts three months and disappears over night. One day you're fine and the next you're feeling the worst that you ever have in your life.  Once that happens it can take a minimum of three months but more than likely over a year of careful dosing and mental gymnastics to stabilize to the point you can resume your taper.  Those three months to over a year are not pleasant, we have many, many journals here describing that period.  To a person those members wish they had listened, taken their time and done it using the method we have proved to work.

 

Given the high doses and multiple changes in your recent history and the ease of taking one pill and not having to worry about making up doses 40mgai is your best bet for the near future.  You're going to have to take it every day at the same time for at least six months, probably longer, for your body to stabilize.  Once fully stable, you can consider a very long very slow taper to try and minimize the symptoms as you reduce.  Going to a much lower dose will effectively be a CT in the way your body sees it and will throw it into chaos that will take years to undo.

 

As always the choice is up to you, but we have a huge amount of experience with doing this and fully understand the consequences of doing it wrong.

[DaveB]

1 hour ago, brassmonkey said:

The actual dose amount is only a small part of the WD equation. Over the years of taking the medication your body had physically adapted to it.  Most of your serotonin receptors have been turned off (at 40mgai Paxil about 87% of the receptors have been turned off) and your body is accustomed to this, but requires a large amount of paxil in order to understand how to continue to function.  With out the paxil your body can't work right and causes WD symptoms. 

 

By changing the dose around the body gets confused because it has adapted to a certain amount of the drug and if it doesn't get it things go haywire.  Frequent changes in the amount of drug also sensitizes the body to the drug so the results of a change become more and more unpredictable with each change.  This change may have been easy, but the next could send you down the rabbit hole, and you don't want to go there. The body requires stability in dosing in order to slowly undo the physical changes and return the body to it's normal drug free condition.

 

In all most every case of CT, rapid taper or frequent large changes there is a "honeymoon period" during which the person feels better than they have for years.  That honeymoon period usually lasts three months and disappears over night. One day you're fine and the next you're feeling the worst that you ever have in your life.  Once that happens it can take a minimum of three months but more than likely over a year of careful dosing and mental gymnastics to stabilize to the point you can resume your taper.  Those three months to over a year are not pleasant, we have many, many journals here describing that period.  To a person those members wish they had listened, taken their time and done it using the method we have proved to work.

 

Given the high doses and multiple changes in your recent history and the ease of taking one pill and not having to worry about making up doses 40mgai is your best bet for the near future.  You're going to have to take it every day at the same time for at least six months, probably longer, for your body to stabilize.  Once fully stable, you can consider a very long very slow taper to try and minimize the symptoms as you reduce.  Going to a much lower dose will effectively be a CT in the way your body sees it and will throw it into chaos that will take years to undo.

 

As always the choice is up to you, but we have a huge amount of experience with doing this and fully understand the consequences of doing it wrong.

 

Brassmonkey,

 

Thank you for weighing in, as per a previous post of yours, won't about 87% of my receptors continue to be turned off at 20mgs? I agree with you and to be honest I am scared of what this decision will do, trying to walk a fine line here with my wife who understandably is fed up with this whole ordeal,.She has essentially lost her husband and partner in raising our 3 kids for a year. When I dropped from 60mgs to 40mgs, your advice was to hold at 40 and that it was a much better place to be than at 50 or 60. Why is this different? Not challenging you or anything (I know tone is hard to read in text) I am just trying to get educated on all of this. I am now almost a week at 20, shouldn't I just hold here and attempt to stabilize from this point? I know I am in for a rocky (to put in mildly) few months, but won't I be better for it to stabilize at 20 rather than 40? Isn't it essentially all about staying at a steady state for the brain to settle down and the actual dose isn't all that important? 

[DaveB]

4 hours ago, RachelSusan said:

Hi DaveB,

I have been following your posts. I'm checking in to see how you are doing.  I am keeping my fingers crossed that you are doing OK. Never fear, you will always find support here.

Rachel

PS - I answered your post on my page. Thank you so much for coming by my page.

 

I am doing ok, really up and down. Times today where I have felt completely normal, and times where I have felt terrible. Seems I am in a rapid cycling stage of windows and waves. I had a really rough morning and early afternoon yesterday (which was my day off) however the anxiety gave me a pretty good window after about 2-3 PM. I went and saw a movie with my wife (The Greatest Showman...I would highly recommend it BTW) and felt really pretty good. I would be optimistic, but it seems the consensus is I am in for a rough go with my recent decision to try to stabilize at a lower dose following an inexplicably stupid mistake I made over the holidays. Thanks for the support, I really appreciate it. 

[DaveB]

2 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

The actual dose amount is only a small part of the WD equation. Over the years of taking the medication your body had physically adapted to it.  Most of your serotonin receptors have been turned off (at 40mgai Paxil about 87% of the receptors have been turned off) and your body is accustomed to this, but requires a large amount of paxil in order to understand how to continue to function.  With out the paxil your body can't work right and causes WD symptoms. 

 

BTW, how are you doing now that you are finally off of everything after over 20 years? Congrats on that by the way, I wish that was me!

[DaveB]

3 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Given the high doses and multiple changes in your recent history and the ease of taking one pill and not having to worry about making up doses 40mgai is your best bet for the near future.  You're going to have to take it every day at the same time for at least six months, probably longer, for your body to stabilize.  Once fully stable, you can consider a very long very slow taper to try and minimize the symptoms as you reduce.  Going to a much lower dose will effectively be a CT in the way your body sees it and will throw it into chaos that will take years to undo.

 

You really think the difference in this decision of 40 or 20mgs will be YEARS?!?  Isn't there a good chance the Zyprexa I also take could minimize the negative effects as it acts as a "brakes" medication? 

[brassmonkey]

The serotonin receptors are just a small part of what is affected by these drugs.  They essentially cause trouble with every system in the body which is why they are so difficult to get off of.  A drop from 40 to 20 might be fine for the serotonin receptors, but how it affects the endocrine system, the CNS, the autonomic nervous system, the hormonal balance and a whole slue of things is part of the problem.  Also all those systems are interrelated so if you throw off one or them you throw off all the rest.  Even the manufacturers don't really understand how they work or what they do to a person. These drugs are straight out of a sci-fi horror film with what they do to the mind and body.  The other problem is that everyone reacts differently to them so you might get away with the drop to 20mg and have the affects only last a few months.  Experience has shown that this in not the case. 

 

For example I have several "taper buddies" who CTed 20mg, 30mg and 40mg at the same time I started my 10% taper.  That was six years ago.  I'm 95% recovered and getting on with my life, they are all still suffering pretty much acute WD on a daily basis.  Another friend CTed 60mg severall years before I started and is still having major problems.

 

I'm so sorry to hear that your wife is having trouble with this.  It's totally understandable though.  Would it be possible to get her to have a look around the site, a little knowledge might help her to understand.

 

As I mentioned above, I'm about 95% back to normal.  It's actually hard to put a number on it because things keep clearing up and changing in ways that I didn't even know were being affected.  Recovery doesn't end with jumping to "0". It's actually just getting going.  There is a lot less information available for the post "0" period so it's pretty much uncharted waters.  There are several predicted bad waves that are pretty common, I had one a month or so ago and face the good possibility of another in a few months from now.  There are some mental clarity issues that are ongoing but improving.  Having been drugged for well over 20 years is making handling emotions a challenge as they've been pretty much nonexistent for a very long time.  All on all things are the best that they've been in many years.

[DaveB]

10 hours ago, Gridley said:

I hope it goes well for you.  Please keep checking in.

 

10 hours ago, AliG said:

 

I have to agree with both Gridley and  nz11 - a 50% drop is dangerous and ill- advised. As it's only been a few doses, I would go back up to 40 mg.

 

10 hours ago, nz11 said:

Looks like Gridley ....and AliG just snuck in before me..... 

Don’t worry you will always find support here on this site regardless. It’s not easy out there.

 

wishing you stability and strength not sure ‘Happy wife happy life ‘ has been tested like this before.

nz11

 

 

2 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

The serotonin receptors are just a small part of what is affected by these drugs.  They essentially cause trouble with every system in the body which is why they are so difficult to get off of.

 

I got my wife to agree to me giving 20 mgs a one week trial and then going back to 40 if I don’t feel noticeable improvement. What are your thoughts on this?

[nz11]

 

Dave,

I don't recall seeing lyrica in the drug sig before maybe it was there and I missed it. 

I have a feeling its just been added in because I couldn't understand  why you doubled the dose of paxil to 40 last year and now I can see it was because the doctor  CT the lyrica at the same time. Also I have just re-read your whole thread and I have not seen one mention of lyrica even when cc repeated back to you what she thought you were on.

Its hard for people to give support when they only know a partial story. With so many drugs and changes its easy to forget something don't worry we know what it is like.

 600mg of lyrica for 2.5 months seems  a large dose to me but rereading it does appear doctors can  give people that kind of dose. but that is a lot to ct. 

No wonder you were  a mess last year. You talk often of 'anxiety' but I think you are really talking about wdl symptoms.

 

I also note in re-reading that you have changed doctors.

You were not happy and rightfully so at the prior doctor for the 'rollercoaster' he put you on. So you changed.

I don't know how the system works in your country but does the new doctor who I assume you started to see in dec know about your drug history?

 

On ‎1‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 1:44 PM, DaveB said:

Because of this, my doctor suggested trying a lower dose when going back to 40mgs after my screw-up was causing so many problems.

 

I assume you are now referring to the new doctor here.

Does the new doctor acknowledge wdl symptoms when coming off these drugs ?

Does the new doctor understand that wdl symptoms can be delayed for several months?

Did he know that in 2017 you CT Zoloft,  lex and lyrica (600mg!) and klonopin and  have been unstable for all of the second half of last year right up to mid dec. 

Sometimes if we aren't fully informed our suggestions may be different if more info had come to light.

 

I see you have just posted so I will still post this as food for thought. (Also I just hate it when I have to delete  3 hours work)

I can understand where your wife is coming from we all can as it is next to impossible for someone to understand ssri wdl if they have never experienced it.

Its a big change to realise doctors may not be as safe as we were brought up to belief. 

All the best

nz11

[brassmonkey]

Having a good support system can be a major benefit during WD.  Also a once in a life time loving relationship is something to be cherished and preserved.  I don't think waiting a week will cause and additional problems.  Take notes on paper to keep track of any symptoms/ changes that might crop up, if your memory is like mine was when I was in acute you'll need them.  It's excellent that she is willing to try and work with you on this, be sure to let her know how much you appreciate her putting up with everything.  Even though she's not experiencing the WD directly she is a partner in all of this and probably scared to death to see you going through it and frustrated that she can't make it all better.

[Gridley]

Sounds very good, DaveB.  My wife too has had to put up with (and miss out on) a lot.  Good on yours for agreeing to this.

[DaveB]

On 1/7/2018 at 1:41 AM, brassmonkey said:

Having a good support system can be a major benefit during WD.  Also a once in a life time loving relationship is something to be cherished and preserved. 

 Could not agree more! Thank you for your advice and support.

 

On 1/7/2018 at 7:29 AM, Gridley said:

Sounds very good, DaveB.  My wife too has had to put up with (and miss out on) a lot.  Good on yours for agreeing to this.

 

Thanks for your advice and help Gridley, you have been great to me through this process.  

 

I really started to struggle this weekend so I went back up to 40mgs last night. It sucks I have probably set myself back months due to my mistake over Christmas and subsequent dumb attempt at reducing to 20mgs. I know it is probably just placebo, but I already felt a little less on edge this morning. Hoping to get back to my pre-Christmas form of semi-stability quickly, but am prepared to wait it out for the long haul.  

[DaveB]

On 1/6/2018 at 9:05 PM, nz11 said:

 

Dave,

I don't recall seeing lyrica in the drug sig before maybe it was there and I missed it. 

I have a feeling its just been added in because I couldn't understand  why you doubled the dose of paxil to 40 last year and now I can see it was because the doctor  CT the lyrica at the same time. Also I have just re-read your whole thread and I have not seen one mention of lyrica even when cc repeated back to you what she thought you were on.

Its hard for people to give support when they only know a partial story. With so many drugs and changes its easy to forget something don't worry we know what it is like.

 600mg of lyrica for 2.5 months seems  a large dose to me but rereading it does appear doctors can  give people that kind of dose. but that is a lot to ct. 

No wonder you were  a mess last year. You talk often of 'anxiety' but I think you are really talking about wdl symptoms.

 

Yeah, I am a little embarrassed by the Lyrica. I left it out as when I was doing so poorly this spring, I kind of prescribed it to myself as something that was going to "cure" what was going on with me. I got one of my Dad's doctor friends to prescribe it based on my "research" and the whole thing was a huge mistake. The insurance wouldn't cover it and it was just too expensive, I was hoping since I was only on it for a short time I would be okay, but I got SLAMMED by withdrawals. At that point I was really struggling and I found my current Dr (who is great, I text him yesterday on a SUNDAY and he responded I should go back to 40mgs). He upped my Paxil to 40mgs and added the Zyprexa, though I am still in a daily struggle, I have been MUCH better since seeing him. So yeah, I left out the Lyrica as I was embarrassed and since it was a while ago, I didn't think it critical info, but after giving it thought I realized and agreed with your statement that I have bolded. 

 

Anyway, I just want to say thank you for your support and advice (and for paying attention enough to "catch" my Lyrica omission) and your persistence in talking me through a momentary period of semi-insanity where I thought I drop to 20mgs was a good idea. Hoping to stabilize to my pre-Christmas form (which was somewhere between 50-80% of normal) soon, but I know I have probably set myself back at least a month (maybe more). 

[Terry4949]

On 06/01/2018 at 8:58 PM, brassmonkey said:

The actual dose amount is only a small part of the WD equation. Over the years of taking the medication your body had physically adapted to it.  Most of your serotonin receptors have been turned off (at 40mgai Paxil about 87% of the receptors have been turned off) and your body is accustomed to this, but requires a large amount of paxil in order to understand how to continue to function.  With out the paxil your body can't work right and causes WD symptoms. 

 

By changing the dose around the body gets confused because it has adapted to a certain amount of the drug and if it doesn't get it things go haywire.  Frequent changes in the amount of drug also sensitizes the body to the drug so the results of a change become more and more unpredictable with each change.  This change may have been easy, but the next could send you down the rabbit hole, and you don't want to go there. The body requires stability in dosing in order to slowly undo the physical changes and return the body to it's normal drug free condition.

 

In all most every case of CT, rapid taper or frequent large changes there is a "honeymoon period" during which the person feels better than they have for years.  That honeymoon period usually lasts three months and disappears over night. One day you're fine and the next you're feeling the worst that you ever have in your life.  Once that happens it can take a minimum of three months but more than likely over a year of careful dosing and mental gymnastics to stabilize to the point you can resume your taper.  Those three months to over a year are not pleasant, we have many, many journals here describing that period.  To a person those members wish they had listened, taken their time and done it using the method we have proved to work.

 

Given the high doses and multiple changes in your recent history and the ease of taking one pill and not having to worry about making up doses 40mgai is your best bet for the near future.  You're going to have to take it every day at the same time for at least six months, probably longer, for your body to stabilize.  Once fully stable, you can consider a very long very slow taper to try and minimize the symptoms as you reduce.  Going to a much lower dose will effectively be a CT in the way your body sees it and will throw it into chaos that will take years to undo.

 

As always the choice is up to you, but we have a huge amount of experience with doing this and fully understand the consequences of doing it wrong.

Brassmonkey sorry to jump in on this thread I have been following , but you say you tapered at 10% and you have got down with relatively a smooth withdrawel but you know people who went of c/t the same time and 6 years of they are still struggling , I was c/t by a doctor of all my meds 10 months ago and now I’m worse than ever so in 6 years I will still be struggling is that what your saying , then maybe I will need a medication to help through this so I can get some stability hold for a long while then taper really slow , you have worried me now , I had no choice in how I was stopped 

 

[Gridley]

Don't kick yourself over the mistakes.  We have all messed up.

[nz11]

Yeah I agree with Gridley

In fact the person who should be embarrassed is the doctor who prescribed the 600mg! 

I feel its actually unethical to allow people to self prescribe like this.

[Downbutnotout]

2 hours ago, Terry4949 said:

Brassmonkey sorry to jump in on this thread I have been following , but you say you tapered at 10% and you have got down with relatively a smooth withdrawel but you know people who went of c/t the same time and 6 years of they are still struggling , I was c/t by a doctor of all my meds 10 months ago and now I’m worse than ever so in 6 years I will still be struggling is that what your saying , then maybe I will need a medication to help through this so I can get some stability hold for a long while then taper really slow , you have worried me now , I had no choice in how I was stopped 

 

Please help me understand this. I got taken off effexor 7 weeks ago very quickly. It is recommended I take 5,beads off effexor to updose. Does that mean it’s going to take me years to feel normal? Should I have tried to go up much higher then come down? 

[brassmonkey]

Hi Terry and DBNO--  Going CT is the roughest possible way to get off of these drugs.  Some people can do it with no problems while others end up struggling for years.  There is no way of predicting how any one individual will react.  From what I have seen while being on this and other forums is that the people who CT, for what ever reason,  have the roughest time and take the longest to recover, and they eventually do recover.  From practical experience the only way to reduce the symptoms of a CT is to do a very small (1 or 2 mgai) reinstatement.  It doesn't always work but over the course of several months the body usually finds stability and starts to relax.  The further out from the CT the less likely it is to work, but we do have members who RIed after a year and still had some success.  Doing an RI can be a trick business but we cover all of the details in this thread:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms 

 

I'm sorry to have caused people anxiety with my comments, but ADWD is a very harsh business that takes a very long time even when done right. 

[Terry4949]

7 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

Hi Terry and DBNO--  Going CT is the roughest possible way to get off of these drugs.  Some people can do it with no problems while others end up struggling for years.  There is no way of predicting how any one individual will react.  From what I have seen while being on this and other forums is that the people who CT, for what ever reason,  have the roughest time and take the longest to recover, and they eventually do recover.  From practical experience the only way to reduce the symptoms of a CT is to do a very small (1 or 2 mgai) reinstatement.  It doesn't always work but over the course of several months the body usually finds stability and starts to relax.  The further out from the CT the less likely it is to work, but we do have members who RIed after a year and still had some success.  Doing an RI can be a trick business but we cover all of the details in this thread:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms 

 

I'm sorry to have caused people anxiety with my comments, but ADWD is a very harsh business that takes a very long time even when done right. 

Thankyou  brassmonkey I agree c/t is definitely the wrong way and the suffering is going to be harder I had no choice.  and if I could reinstate a small dose I would but I have been tried on 6 different meds over 12 months which would you reinstate and have been of Effexor for nearly 3 years so that’s a definite no , unfortunately I have found no stability and my body is in full blown withdrawel I wish it was otherwise , 

 

[brassmonkey]

That's where it gets tricky Terry.  I'll have to go over to your thread and have a look around to see what I can come up with. Doctor inflicted CTs make me so upset, I need to go to the cursing thread too.

[Downbutnotout]

I do feel slightly better since reinstating the 5 beads. I was told to give it more time. That’s all I can do.I'm thinking maybe I should add one or two more.  I’m not back to myself that’s for sure. 

[DaveB]

On 1/7/2018 at 1:41 AM, brassmonkey said:

Take notes on paper to keep track of any symptoms/ changes that might crop up, if your memory is like mine was when I was in acute you'll need them. 

 

What is your story Brassmonkey? You mention your taper was somewhat uneventful, when were you in acute? Sorry if it has been told before, but it does me good to hear someone who has been acute like me and seen the other side. Again, thank you for your support and insistence on me not continuing down my poorly constructed path to stabilization. I am back on 40 now and it is in no small part to the advice and support from all you good people that helped me take my health into my own hands, instead of blindly following doctors orders "down the rabbit hole." Also, now that I am at 40 and trying to find stabilization again (seriously was so close in December...when I think of how close, it makes me very frustrated), how long should I be planning on holding? How long does it usually take someone to stabilize after a mess-up like mine? I am holding onto the fact that since I was semi-stable in December I can obviously get back to that point again.