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DaveB: trying to stop a roller coaster year


DaveB

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Yes, you can get back to that point.  It may take a few months.  By the way, this definition of stabilized from Brassmonkey is good to keep in mind:  

 

"Stability is not the absence of WD symptoms, but rather a steady state of feeling crappy without any major swings either direction."

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of Feb. 22: 7.6mg

Taper is 90% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotics, zinc, melatonin .3mg, anti-candida, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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24 minutes ago, Gridley said:

Yes, you can get back to that point.  It may take a few months.  By the way, this definition of stabilized from Brassmonkey is good to keep in mind:  

 

"Stability is not the absence of WD symptoms, but rather a steady state of feeling crappy without any major swings either direction."

 

Thanks Gridley, I will keep that in mind, unfortunately I am swinging very much from one direction to another. So if "stability" is months away and is still is feeling crappy, when does feeling good come?

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

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  • Moderator Emeritus

"Crappy" doesn't mean terrible, just not as good as you felt before all this started and will feel later on.  Once you stabilize there will be windows when you feel good--no or almost no symptoms-- and waves when you feel not so good.  Yes, it's a lengthy process, one that none of us want to be in.  But we are.

 

You may well stabilize in a shorter time than months.  I just wanted to prepare you for that possibility.

Edited by Gridley

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of Feb. 22: 7.6mg

Taper is 90% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotics, zinc, melatonin .3mg, anti-candida, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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  • Moderator

Hi Dave-- I so glad to hear that you've taken control. Now a nice long hold (several months at least) and let things stabilize, then we can slide you off of that nasty stuff.

 

Recounting six years of taper would take a long time but most of it's there in my intro thread

 

There was a lot more, 87 pages worth that recounted the early years at PriorPlace, but that has been lost to the cyber gods.  The short version is I worked up to 40mgai over 19 years.  Was in severe poopout for several years before finding PP and learning about tapering.  I started a 10% every 6 week slide.  Took about two and a half years to notice any real improvements then got progressively better until I jumped to "0" after tapering for  five and a half years. I will be drug free nine months next week and an going fine.  The picture on the link above I took in Kenya last year.  We're thinking about going back again in a couple of months. There are a lot more details in my thread.

 

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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1 hour ago, brassmonkey said:

Hi Dave-- I so glad to hear that you've taken control. Now a nice long hold (several months at least) and let things stabilize, then we can slide you off of that nasty stuff.

 

Recounting six years of taper would take a long time but most of it's there in my intro thread

 

There was a lot more, 87 pages worth that recounted the early years at PriorPlace, but that has been lost to the cyber gods.  The short version is I worked up to 40mgai over 19 years.  Was in severe poopout for several years before finding PP and learning about tapering.  I started a 10% every 6 week slide.  Took about two and a half years to notice any real improvements then got progressively better until I jumped to "0" after tapering for  five and a half years. I will be drug free nine months next week and an going fine.  The picture on the link above I took in Kenya last year.  We're thinking about going back again in a couple of months. There are a lot more details in my thread.

 

 

So were you having acute withdrawal symptoms when you were in poopout, or did you taper too quickly at 1st, before you started to "slide"?

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

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On 12/12/2017 at 11:51 AM, Madeleine said:

It can make it feel worse, depending on how you approach it and what your thoughts are about it.   Maybe try to accept that there are rainy and sunny days, and when you have a rainy day, don't let it get you down, just do what you can when it rains -- e.g. stay inside, read a book quietly, etc. and have faith that the rain will end and the sun will shine again...

 

It looks like you went through something similar about a year ago and have since stabilized and resumed a successful taper. How long did it take for you to get stable again, when did you know you were ready to start a Zyprexa taper?

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

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  • Moderator

The acute phase started about two years before I started to taper when the 40mgai was pooping out on me.  It continued well into the third year of my taper.  The taper speed was fine the problem was the lack of stability caused by the poopout.  By it's very nature there is no way that a hold will stabilize the symptoms of poopout, the only way out is down.  As I was able to reduce my drug load my body was able to sort things out and get the upper hand and eventually stabilize. 

 

Although acute WD and poopout are related they are not the same thing.  Acute WD is a severe case of WD symptoms while poopout is the body tolerating the affects of the drug, trying to work around them and causing WD symptoms by doing so.  Then harder the body rejects the medication the more severe the symptoms.  This was the third time I had gone into poopout, it being the reason I updosed from 20mgai to 30mgai and again to 40mgai.  The 40mgai never really stabilized and caused the most trouble.

 

I started the slide method from my very first reduction and used it the entire time I was tapering.  I had to modify things a bit when I go to the micro-doses at the end of my taper, but that had little bearing on things.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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15 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

It looks like you went through something similar about a year ago and have since stabilized and resumed a successful taper. How long did it take for you to get stable again, when did you know you were ready to start a Zyprexa taper?


I was on Zyprexa for not a long time (see my signature line). I was prescribed it in the hospital. I started tapering soon after I got out of the hospital.  I tapered it slowly in small increments but steadily.  

One thing that helped me a lot was therapy (cognitive behavioural therapy).  It helped me to understand how I often brought on my own anxiety with my negative thoughts.  It's not going to totally alleviate withdrawal issues, but it helps me from getting anxious in the way I did before.  I went to a therapist, and it was quite expensive.  However, for a start, you could take a look at the book Feeling Good by David Burns.  It's an introduction to cognitive behavioural therapy.

My faith has also helped a great deal -- it helps a lot to "live and let God..."  and to pray.   

200 Zoloft; 10 mg Zyprexa; 4 mg valium as of May 2021;  Valium taper: July 16: 3.5 valium; July 30: 3 mg (paused valium taper); Aug. 23: 2.5 mg
Zyprexa: July 26: 8.75 mg; Aug. 9: 7.5 mg; Aug. 30: 7.1 mg

-------
Dec 1, 2016. 10 mg zyprexa for 1.5 month. Started taper mid-Jan. 2017. Cut 1.25 mg every 2 weeks; smaller cuts 2.5 mg down. Stopped at .6 mg. May 7, 2017: zyprexa free. 
Zoloft: Dec1, 2016, 200 mg. Started taper: Jun12, 2017: 197.5 mg; Jun19,:195 mg; July 2:185mg; July 9,:180 mg; July16,: 175; July 23: 170; July 30: 165; Aug6: 160; Aug13: 155; Aug. 20: 150; Aug.27: 146 mg; Sept3: 145 mg; Sept10:143 mg; Sept17:140 mg....Nov5: 122 mg...Dec3:112.5 mg; Jan14, 2018: 95 mg...Jan28: 90 mg; Feb21:80 mg; Mar11: 75 mg; May2:70 mg; May15: 68 mg; May28: 65 mg; Jun9: 62 mg;Jun25: 60 mg:July22: 55 mg; Aug25: 45 mg. Aug28: 50 mg...Oct 28: 38 mg; Dec.4: 30 mg; Jan8,2019: 25mg; Feb6: 23.5 mg; Apr1:17.5mg; May1:1 mg; May 5: 18;  May 18:15mg; June 16:12.5mg; Sept 10:11 mg; Sept.16:10 mg; Oct. 1: 9mg; Nov. 27: 8mg; Dec.5: 7mg; Jan.1,2020, 6 mg; Feb1: 5 mg; May 1: 2.5 mg; Jn 1: 2 mg; Jy 1: 1.5 mg

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1 hour ago, Madeleine said:


I was on Zyprexa for not a long time (see my signature line). I was prescribed it in the hospital. I started tapering soon after I got out of the hospital.  I tapered it slowly in small increments but steadily.  

One thing that helped me a lot was therapy (cognitive behavioural therapy).  It helped me to understand how I often brought on my own anxiety with my negative thoughts.  It's not going to totally alleviate withdrawal issues, but it helps me from getting anxious in the way I did before.  I went to a therapist, and it was quite expensive.  However, for a start, you could take a look at the book Feeling Good by David Burns.  It's an introduction to cognitive behavioural therapy.

My faith has also helped a great deal -- it helps a lot to "live and let God..."  and to pray.   

 

Good advice on all counts. When you tapered Zyprexa did you cut that little tiny pill into halves (4ths?) or get some kind of liquid. I think when I resume a taper (not for some months, I promise Brassmonkey!) I would like to do Zyprexa 1st and want to know how you did it. 

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

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2 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

Good advice on all counts. When you tapered Zyprexa did you cut that little tiny pill into halves (4ths?) or get some kind of liquid. I think when I resume a taper (not for some months, I promise Brassmonkey!) I would like to do Zyprexa 1st and want to know how you did it. 


I cut the 2.5 pills by quarters when I was on higher doses. Then when I got to about 1.25 mg and lower I tried taking even smaller little pieces.    Check the thread on this forum on "tapering zyprexa" and also do a search on "zyprexa" in this forum and you will how others tapered. 

200 Zoloft; 10 mg Zyprexa; 4 mg valium as of May 2021;  Valium taper: July 16: 3.5 valium; July 30: 3 mg (paused valium taper); Aug. 23: 2.5 mg
Zyprexa: July 26: 8.75 mg; Aug. 9: 7.5 mg; Aug. 30: 7.1 mg

-------
Dec 1, 2016. 10 mg zyprexa for 1.5 month. Started taper mid-Jan. 2017. Cut 1.25 mg every 2 weeks; smaller cuts 2.5 mg down. Stopped at .6 mg. May 7, 2017: zyprexa free. 
Zoloft: Dec1, 2016, 200 mg. Started taper: Jun12, 2017: 197.5 mg; Jun19,:195 mg; July 2:185mg; July 9,:180 mg; July16,: 175; July 23: 170; July 30: 165; Aug6: 160; Aug13: 155; Aug. 20: 150; Aug.27: 146 mg; Sept3: 145 mg; Sept10:143 mg; Sept17:140 mg....Nov5: 122 mg...Dec3:112.5 mg; Jan14, 2018: 95 mg...Jan28: 90 mg; Feb21:80 mg; Mar11: 75 mg; May2:70 mg; May15: 68 mg; May28: 65 mg; Jun9: 62 mg;Jun25: 60 mg:July22: 55 mg; Aug25: 45 mg. Aug28: 50 mg...Oct 28: 38 mg; Dec.4: 30 mg; Jan8,2019: 25mg; Feb6: 23.5 mg; Apr1:17.5mg; May1:1 mg; May 5: 18;  May 18:15mg; June 16:12.5mg; Sept 10:11 mg; Sept.16:10 mg; Oct. 1: 9mg; Nov. 27: 8mg; Dec.5: 7mg; Jan.1,2020, 6 mg; Feb1: 5 mg; May 1: 2.5 mg; Jn 1: 2 mg; Jy 1: 1.5 mg

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Seriously, I have gone in swings from feeling pretty good for a bit today, to honestly not sure how I can make it through the day. Are these swings to be expected with where I am at or is it a sign I am doing something wrong? 

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

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  • Moderator Emeritus

These swings are to be expected.  Your CNS has gone through a lot of dose changes and is destabilized.  If you are holding at 40mg, you are doing right.  

 

Madeleine gave you some good advice.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of Feb. 22: 7.6mg

Taper is 90% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotics, zinc, melatonin .3mg, anti-candida, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to comment
On 1/9/2018 at 7:05 PM, brassmonkey said:

By it's very nature there is no way that a hold will stabilize the symptoms of poopout, the only way out is down. 

 

Although acute WD and poopout are related they are not the same thing.  Acute WD is a severe case of WD symptoms while poopout is the body tolerating the affects of the drug, trying to work around them and causing WD symptoms by doing so.  Then harder the body rejects the medication the more severe the symptoms.  This was the third time I had gone into poopout, it being the reason I updosed from 20mgai to 30mgai and again to 40mgai.  The 40mgai never really stabilized and caused the most trouble.

 

This may be a dumb question, but is it possible I am experiencing a form of poopout and my body is rejecting the medication and therefore a hold won’t stabilize me? I guess today has just turned out to be a doubting day as I have been so up and down.

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

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  • Moderator

You're not showing and signs of poopout from everything we've talked about, just being really unstable from all the dose changes.  There will be good and bad days on the way to stabilizing, but you'll get there.

20 years on Paxil starting at 20mg and working up to 40mg. Sept 2011 started 10% every 6 weeks taper (2.5% every week for 4 weeks then hold for 2 additional weeks), currently at 7.9mg. Oct 2011 CTed 15oz vodka a night, to only drinking 2 beers most nights, totally sober Feb 2013.

Since I wrote this I have continued to decrease my dose by 10% every 6 weeks (2.5% every week for 4 weeks and then hold for an additional 2 weeks). I added in an extra 6 week hold when I hit 10mg to let things settle out even more. When I hit 3mgpw it became hard to split the drop into 4 parts so I switched to dropping 1mgpw (pill weight) every week for 3 weeks and then holding for another 3 weeks.  The 3 + 3 schedule turned out to be too harsh so I cut back to dropping 1mgpw every 4 weeks which is working better.

Final Dose 0.016mg.     Current dose 0.000mg 04-15-2017

 

"It's also important not to become angry, no matter how difficult life is, because you can loose all hope if you can't laugh at yourself and at life in general."  Stephen Hawking

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Anyone have any info or experience on BCAAs in withdrawal. I am trying to get healthy and I have a protein shake that I combine with a banana and spinach, that contains BCAAs. They are supposed to be great for when you exercise giving you energy and I am hoping to use these to help me get off caffeine. Any info is appreciated. 

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

Link to comment

Could taking Klonopin for a few days instead of Paxil, and my quick trial of 20mgs really be causing me all this trouble? I am almost a week into my reinstatement of 40mgs and really not doing well. Having near constant anxiety, making it hard to enjoy anything or concentrate on stuff at work. So frustrating as I felt I was SO close in December. Windows and waves for sure, but there was undeniable progress. Now I feel squarely back at the beginning of trying to recover and stabilize. Could this really be from my mixup and 20mg trial or am I doing something wrong?

 

Also a question about caffeine, I have noticed that when I drink a coffee instead soda or monster energy drink, I will feel better for about an hour or two, before the anxiety comes roaring back. I know caffeine is suggested to be cut on this site in acute withdrawal, so wouldn’t you expect the opposite to be true. Caffeine to cause an anxiety spike for a few hours until it settles back down? Anyone else experienced anything like this?

 

Thank you all for being my lifeline in tough times!

 

PS. I stopped the BCAA’s I don’t think it is worth testing my body with any other supplement right now.

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

Link to comment

Also, I was doing some math today and realized at no point during this year have I stayed on the same meds at the same dose for longer than about 7-8 weeks...maybe that has been my problem?

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

Link to comment
  • Mentor

HI Dave,

You've had 2 changes in a short period of time. It's not just the change in the Paxil but the change in the Klonopin as well, even if it was just for a short period of time. I've also reread your drug signature, and looked at the changes you made in 2017 alone.  I'm impressed that you still standing.  You must be superman. But in spite of being Superman please be kind to yourself.  Nice and easy does it.  Go slow and give yourself time to stabilize. 7 to 8 weeks for the same dose is not very long. You will be OK in the long run.  It's just the now that sticks. You've got so many great people advising you here you can't go wrong.

Best wishes for stabilizing quickly.

Rachel

 

I am not a health professional in any way.  I do not give medical advice.   Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a professional medical practitioner.

 

NEW INFORMATION FOR GABAPENTIN TAPER

April 29, 2022 900 mg to 800 mg (11%), May 29, 2022 800 to 700 mg (12.5%), June 20, 2022 700 to 650mg (8%), July 20, 2022 650 to 575 (12%), August 20,  575 to 500 (13%),  Sept 20, 2020 500 to 475mg (5%) Nov 7, 2022 475 to 425 (11%), Nov 21, 2022 500mg

Medications: Gabapentin, Prednisone 1.5mg a day, Cortisol Inhaler daily. 

HISTORY FOR ZOLOFT TAPER

Feb. 2016 to June 2016  - Was on 150mg Zoloft.  Put on Gabapentin at 900mg a day in 2016 due to antidepressant withdrawal. 

Quit Zoloft (Sertraline) June  2016,  reinstated 50mg of Zoloft July 2016.  From July 2016  to October 2016 went from 50 mg down 2.3 mg. I up-dosed in November 2016 to 12.5 mg. Held there until January 2017 when I started a much slower taper.

STARTING SENSIBLE  ZOLOFT TAPERING USING GUIDELINES FROM THIS SITE

Dec. 10 2016  - switched to Liquid Zoloft (Sertraline) @ 12.5 mg.   Jan. 4, 2020 1.875 mg (6.3%). Jan. 25, 2020 1.75 mgFeb. 29, 2020 1.625mg (7.10%).  Apr. 4, 2020 1.5 mg.  May 9, 2020 1.375 mg.  June 6, 2020 1.25 mg. (9.10%).  July 4, 2020 1.125 mg. (10%).  August 15, 2020 1.0 mg.  Oct 24, 2020 .875 mg.  Nov. 28, 2020 .75mgJan 16, 2021 .685mg (8.7%).  Feb 13, 2021 .62mg. March 12, 2021 .56mg.  May 1, 2021 .375mg.  May 29, 2021 .25mg. June 26, 2021 .0125mg. July 25, 2021 .065mg. August 22, 2021 .048mg.  October 2, 2021 .043mg.  October 10, 2021 .038mg.  October 23, 2021 .035mg.  October 30, 2021 .032mg.  Nov. 13, 2021 .030 mg.  Dec 4, 2021 .0285 mg.  Dec 11, 2021 .0265 mg. Dec 18, 2021 .0246 mg. Dec 25, 2021 .023mg. Jan 1, 2022. 0 mg. OFF COMPLETELY

Link to comment

Thanks Rachel! Sometimes I feel like I am trying to be Superman, but not even pulling off Clark Kent. Had a pretty good night last night (again after Dr Pepper with dinner, I am telling you my anxiety/withdrawal response to caffeine is weird!) and today hasn’t been too bad. I have had a semi-window I would say, hoping it is a sign of things to come!

 

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

Link to comment

Well that “window” closed quickly! Anxiety has been so bad today, I have been seriously considering checking into a hospital. One year into this nightmare and can’t believe how bad it is today!

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

Link to comment
On January 12, 2018 at 2:58 PM, DaveB said:

Also a question about caffeine, I have noticed that when I drink a coffee instead soda or monster energy drink, I will feel better for about an hour or two, before the anxiety comes roaring back. I know caffeine is suggested to be cut on this site in acute withdrawal, so wouldn’t you expect the opposite to be true. Caffeine to cause an anxiety spike for a few hours until it settles back down? Anyone else experienced anything like this?

 

PS. I stopped the BCAA’s I don’t think it is worth testing my body with any other supplement right now.

 

Good question about caffeine.  I can hazard a guess.  I suppose if you are addicted to coffee, the energy drink or soda may not be giving you the "dose" your body is craving.  Getting your proper amount of caffeine calms you --- temporarily.  Then, the caffeine activates your alerting system -- fight or flight system -- and that system doesn't calm down quickly the way it would if you were not in WD.  There's an explanation on this site about why WD causes anxiety, and sometimes, intense anxiety.  It's about gaba, gaba receptors and the way that a destabilized CNS can result in all the neurotransmitters being out of balance.  I think it was written by Rhiannon if I'm not mistaken.  It's a good read, and it brought all of the theory of ADWD into focus for me.  

 

 

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16629-rosetta-ct-may-2011-too-fast-taper-feb-2017/?page=25

2001-2011 Celexa 10 mg raised to 40 mg then 60 mg over this time period

May 2011 OB Doctor's Cold switch Celexa 60 mg to 10 mg Zoloft sertraline (baby born)

2012-2016 - Doctors raised dose of Zoloft up to 150 mg

2016 - Xanax prescribed - as needed - 0.5 mg about every 3 days (bad reaction)

2016 - Stopped Xanax

Late 2016- Began (too fast) taper of Zoloft

Early 2017 - Trazodone prescribed for bedtime (doseage unknown)

Feb 2017 - Completed taper/stopped Trazodone

Drug free since Feb 2017

2017 - Unisom otc very rarely for sleep

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

This may be the post from Rhiannon that you're talking about, Rosetta.  It's a good one.

 

Brain Remodelling

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of Feb. 22: 7.6mg

Taper is 90% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotics, zinc, melatonin .3mg, anti-candida, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to comment
4 hours ago, Rosetta said:

 

Good question about caffeine.  I can hazard a guess.  I suppose if you are addicted to coffee, the energy drink or soda may not be giving you the "dose" your body is craving.  Getting your proper amount of caffeine calms you --- temporarily.  Then, the caffeine activates your alerting system -- fight or flight system -- and that system doesn't calm down quickly the way it would if you were not in WD.  There's an explanation on this site about why WD causes anxiety, and sometimes, intense anxiety.  It's about gaba, gaba receptors and the way that a destabilized CNS can result in all the neurotransmitters being out of balance.  I think it was written by Rhiannon if I'm not mistaken.  It's a good read, and it brought all of the theory of ADWD into focus for me.  

 

 

 

 

I think your Theroy makes some sense, thanks for weighing in.

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

Link to comment
3 hours ago, Gridley said:

This may be the post from Rhiannon that you're talking about, Rosetta.  It's a good one.

 

Brain Remodelling

 

This is good info, thanks! Today has been SO bad, I don’t know what happened? Should I just chalk it up to a bad day, or that something really wrong is going on?

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

Link to comment
  • Moderator Emeritus

Chalk it up to a bad day.  There will be some of those as your system stabilizes.  

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of Feb. 22: 7.6mg

Taper is 90% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotics, zinc, melatonin .3mg, anti-candida, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

Link to comment
3 hours ago, Gridley said:

Chalk it up to a bad day.  There will be some of those as your system stabilizes.  

 

Ok, it was just REALLY bad, worst day I have had in months. Not sure why that would be the case. I really thought about checking into a hospital as the anxiety was simply overwhelming!

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

Link to comment

That's a good one, but maybe I'll find the other one.  

 

Maybe it was Gia K.  She was quoting an unnamed person from Paxil Progress, I believe.  I can't repeat it, but I'll try to give you a version of what I remember.  She talked about benzo addiction and the neurotransmitter called gaba, and it's job in your system.  She said the same sort of mechanism could be going on for ADWD.  She explained how destabilization caused by the sudden withdrawal of the drug for GABA activates the alerting system (fight or flight/adrenaline system).  GABA's job is to help that system calm down.  The WD of a drug acting directly on serotonin instead of GABA also results in an imbalance of the entire CNS due to the serotonin being out of balance.  That imbalance causes the gaba and dopamine to go out of balance even though the drug wasn't specifically made to act on GABA. The WD symptoms for benzo and AD WD overlap especially when it come to high anxiety (due to GABA being out of balance).  This lack of homestasis probably causes many other symptoms other than anxiety -- sleep issues, nausea, etc.   Then the killer is when the imbalance become self perpetuating (this has something to do with the adrenaline and cortisol being released and there being insufficient GABA or GABA receptors to calm everything down.)  The system is out of balance for periods of time (waves) and occasionally finds a balance but then loses that balance again when a new receptor for any one of the neurotransmitters is reactivated.  (That's probably not exactly the explanation, but it's the best I could do.)

 

The need for calming exercises is stressed a lot on this site.  I used to think I could not use these techniques because I was too anxious to focus, but, at some point, I became able to use them.  Then I found that I could short circuit the alerting system (fight or flight/adrenaline system).  I guess the idea is to try even if you can't make the relaxation techniques works because 

 

You are going to think something really wrong is going on every time you go under a wave until you finally just don't think that.  At some point you will be able to wrap your brain around the concept of neuro plasticity, kindling, how ADs and benzos work, etc.  You will start to think "Oh, it's another wave. Again??!"  It takes some getting used to.  It's so hard to believe the doctors can't fix this problem they created, isn't it?  

 

You had Paxil, I see.  I remember getting Paxil in 1998 I think it was.  It's not in my drug signature because I didn't stay on it, and I didn't take another AD until 2001, but maybe there's a reason to put it there.  I took it less than 10 days because I found myself slamming my head against a wooden fence over and over and over again.  I was trying to slam it harder and harder each time.  I was a 28 year old girl in an upscale neighborhood, and people could see me do this.  I didn't care.  I guess that was my first taste of Akathisia.  You see, in a world with a caring, ethical, humane medical system, I would have never been given another AD again, right?  Well, you know the answer.

 

I'm sorry you are in this mess.  I am somewhat ok now because I took the advice to stay off these drugs, but I didn't have a chance to taper.  It was too late when I found SA.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16629-rosetta-ct-may-2011-too-fast-taper-feb-2017/?page=25

2001-2011 Celexa 10 mg raised to 40 mg then 60 mg over this time period

May 2011 OB Doctor's Cold switch Celexa 60 mg to 10 mg Zoloft sertraline (baby born)

2012-2016 - Doctors raised dose of Zoloft up to 150 mg

2016 - Xanax prescribed - as needed - 0.5 mg about every 3 days (bad reaction)

2016 - Stopped Xanax

Late 2016- Began (too fast) taper of Zoloft

Early 2017 - Trazodone prescribed for bedtime (doseage unknown)

Feb 2017 - Completed taper/stopped Trazodone

Drug free since Feb 2017

2017 - Unisom otc very rarely for sleep

Link to comment

Well, Dave & Gridley, I found the info I thought Rhiannon had posted, but I was quite confused on who posted it.   Not surprising these days, lol.  

 

Actually, what I tried to repeat on your thread, Dave, was written by none other than Altostrata herself and posted here: https://beyondmeds.com/2010/07/14/gabaglutamate/ (and there is an answer to it that clarifies some possible/ potential confusion about the fight or flight system.). Its a really great explanation of what might be happening to us nonetheless, of course, but it's still not the explanation I was thinking about when I mentioned it.  The one I was thinking of was written by a person who did not want to be identified.  

 

Sigh . . . I want my memory back.  Oh, well.  The Beyond Meds Altostrata article is very informative on the subject.  Maybe it's just a theory, but it made sense to me.  Having a possible explanation was nice.  I wonder if she still considers that theory a good possibility.  As for the other theory, I'm relatively sure GiaK posted it somewhere.

 

I hope tomorrow is much better, Dave.  Do you have black out curtains or a sleeping mask and a very gentle, quiet alarm to wake you?

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16629-rosetta-ct-may-2011-too-fast-taper-feb-2017/?page=25

2001-2011 Celexa 10 mg raised to 40 mg then 60 mg over this time period

May 2011 OB Doctor's Cold switch Celexa 60 mg to 10 mg Zoloft sertraline (baby born)

2012-2016 - Doctors raised dose of Zoloft up to 150 mg

2016 - Xanax prescribed - as needed - 0.5 mg about every 3 days (bad reaction)

2016 - Stopped Xanax

Late 2016- Began (too fast) taper of Zoloft

Early 2017 - Trazodone prescribed for bedtime (doseage unknown)

Feb 2017 - Completed taper/stopped Trazodone

Drug free since Feb 2017

2017 - Unisom otc very rarely for sleep

Link to comment
14 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Well, Dave & Gridley, I found the info I thought Rhiannon had posted, but I was quite confused on who posted it.   Not surprising these days, lol.  

 

Actually, what I tried to repeat on your thread, Dave, was written by none other than Altostrata herself and posted here: https://beyondmeds.com/2010/07/14/gabaglutamate/ (and there is an answer to it that clarifies some possible/ potential confusion about the fight or flight system.). Its a really great explanation of what might be happening to us nonetheless, of course, but it's still not the explanation I was thinking about when I mentioned it.  The one I was thinking of was written by a person who did not want to be identified.  

 

Sigh . . . I want my memory back.  Oh, well.  The Beyond Meds Altostrata article is very informative on the subject.  Maybe it's just a theory, but it made sense to me.  Having a possible explanation was nice.  I wonder if she still considers that theory a good possibility.  As for the other theory, I'm relatively sure GiaK posted it somewhere.

 

I hope tomorrow is much better, Dave.  Do you have black out curtains or a sleeping mask and a very gentle, quiet alarm to wake you?

 

This is very good info, but doesn't give me much hope. It says: "Once disinhibition of the glutamatergic system takes hold, it becomes self-perpetuating. The whole question of neurotransmitter imbalance — a chimera of psychiatry anyway — becomes moot. No manipulation of serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine is going to help. In fact, it usually makes the condition worse."

 

So in other words, what I have attempted to do with a Paxil "reinstatement" to help with my Zoloft CT last year isn't going to help and "in fact, it usually makes the condition worse." So where does this leave me? Resigned to a recovery that will probably take years if it is successful at all? That isn't very encouraging. 

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

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14 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I hope tomorrow is much better, Dave.  Do you have black out curtains or a sleeping mask and a very gentle, quiet alarm to wake you?

 

I actually started feeling a little better last night so that was helpful, and today has been much better than yesterday, though still a struggle for sure! Is it normal in withdrawal to feel more calm at night, seems my days are really grind it out right now, but nights are much more calm and closer to normal. This has been a pattern for me for pretty much the whole year, though depending on how strong the waves is, the level of nighttime relief is varied. 

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

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  • Moderator Emeritus

It is pretty common to feel worse in the morning and better as the day progresses.  That is my pattern.  One explanation of this is that cortisol spikes in the morning and then lessens.

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of Feb. 22: 7.6mg

Taper is 90% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotics, zinc, melatonin .3mg, anti-candida, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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3 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

This is very good info, but doesn't give me much hope. It says: "Once disinhibition of the glutamatergic system takes hold, it becomes self-perpetuating. The whole question of neurotransmitter imbalance — a chimera of psychiatry anyway — becomes moot. No manipulation of serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine is going to help. In fact, it usually makes the condition worse."

 

So in other words, what I have attempted to do with a Paxil "reinstatement" to help with my Zoloft CT last year isn't going to help and "in fact, it usually makes the condition worse." So where does this leave me? Resigned to a recovery that will probably take years if it is successful at all? That isn't very encouraging. 

 

Anyone with any answers or insights into this? 

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

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4 hours ago, DaveB said:

 

This is very good info, but doesn't give me much hope. It says: "Once disinhibition of the glutamatergic system takes hold, it becomes self-perpetuating. The whole question of neurotransmitter imbalance — a chimera of psychiatry anyway — becomes moot. No manipulation of serotonin, norepinephrine, or dopamine is going to help. In fact, it usually makes the condition worse."

 

So in other words, what I have attempted to do with a Paxil "reinstatement" to help with my Zoloft CT last year isn't going to help and "in fact, it usually makes the condition worse." So where does this leave me? Resigned to a recovery that will probably take years if it is successful at all? That isn't very encouraging. 

 

Dave, That's what I thought at first, too, when I read that part about "disinhibition being self-perpetuating."  I thought: I'm doomed.  I wasn't.  You are not. 

 

Your mind is looking for the negative, of course.  Mine used to do that but now finds the positive more quickly.  That's another problem with everything being out of whack: Negativity to the extreme.  

 

Imo, the caveat to the statement about "disinhibition being self perpetuating" should be -- until the brain has a chance to repair enough of the structures to let the CNS start to function properly again.  Dysregulation of the CNS is not the same as disinhibition of the glutamate system.  Once the repairs are made such that dysregulation of the CNS is not constant, it is only a matter of time before the disinhibition can be corrected more quickly each time it occurs.

 

I'm no expert; I'm not a moderator; I know very little, but I can tell you what I understand of the theories.  I believe I understand the theories.  A moderator will correct me if I get it wrong, I hope.  I would never give you advice on what to do with Paxil or any drug, but when it comes to trying to understand what has happened to you, I'm happy to tell you my understanding of what these drugs do to the brain and what WD does to the brain.  I have experienced both.  I have not tried to reinstate.

 

Why did the Mods suggest reinstating Paxil instead of Zoloft?  I'm not comfortable answering that.  I think I know why, but please ask a Mod.  I could be wrong.

 

This is fantastic news: by afternoon or evening you feel better!!  This means that your CNS has taken back control.  That's wonderful news!  Mine did not do that quickly.  I was a wreck all day until I passed out from exhaustion at night.  Take that explanation I copied for you and combine it with the knowledge that cortisol spikes in the morning set off a period of anxiety. (Gridley mentioned this.). Then you can see that the explanation tells us why we feel terrible, but it also explains why we feel better in the evening or --after the brain has healed more -- better in the afternoon.  Your system is coping quite well if you are feeling calm in the latter part of the day.  The "self perpetuating disinhibition of the glutamate system" is not lasting all day.  It is being interrupted by your still properly functioning CNS when the sun goes down.  That is a great sign!!

 

My CNS system didn't take back control at first.  I was in horrible agony all day long.  The only relief I had was exhaustion and unconsciousness from that exhaustion.  If there was any difference between morning, afternoon and night, I couldn't feel it.  I suspect that my CNS was in dysregulation and my glutamate was out of control even while I slept.  I did not get restorative sleep.  I woke up feeling that I had not slept a wink.  I must have had some restorative sleep, but my symptoms indicated that it was not enough.

 

Eventually, there was some repair in my brain that gave my CNS the chance to regain control by the evening.  Then, I started to have the bad mornings and days, but better nights, and eventually I had better afternoons, too.  Now, I don't have cortisol spikes in the morning.  So, my CNS remains in control most of the time. It's a tenuous control; it's bumpy and there are lurches here and there.  There is still low level anxiety either in action all morning or threatening to come rushing out from the background.  If something scares me during the day, the whole CNS overreacts.  It's awful, but it resolves within a few hours.  My CNS regains control more quickly all the time.  Something in my brain has changed and the glutamate disinhibition is operating a shorter time than before.  

 

Also, that quote is not specific to people who have the chance to reinstate, either.  It's probably referring to people who do not reinstate the right drug, can't reinstate or have some other problem such that reinstatement did not work.  Guess what?  Even those people heal!  Like me.  So, of course, you will.

 

They say that WD is "bearable" with a successful reinstatement.  From my experience, I suspect that the reason they say this is because the CNS dysregulation and the glutamate disinhibition is not constant after the reinstatement works. Maybe the reinstatement helps the CNS regain control enough to give the person restorative sleep?  I wonder if that's what a Mod would say.

 

(Deleted information about your reinstatement that I mistakenly believed was pertinent to you, Dave, but wasn't.  I mixed you up with Justin.  Hmmm, I wonder why?  Sorry. I want my brain back!! DELETE this too: Maybe they can tell you what they believe about Paxil being the right one, and why they believe that.  As I said, I think I know, but I'm pretty new to all of this.)

 

There are no guarantees.  I know how badly you need a guarantee you have done the right thing with the right drug.  I can tell you that my WD, for a period of time, was not "bearable."  The return of restorative sleep was probably a turning point.  That gave me greater opportunity for more repairs to be made to my brain.  I waited until the disinhibition of the glutamate system stopped long enough for me to feel that had happened.  I started to believe in the theories on this site.  I started to believe that I would heal.  So I kept living and healing.  I'm very fragile.  My glutamate system does go off the rails sometimes, but I have faith that it will be quelled by my CNS operating properly at some point.  The wait for calmness to return is not as long as before.

 

It is so fantastic that your evenings are good and that you are not complaining about insomnia, but trust me, if you are sleeping, if you can relax in the evenings to any degree I believe you are going to be okay.  I know it's going to be bumpy; it's going to be frustrating; healing is not linear, but you are all ready healing.  You will be disappointed when you feel worse during a wave, but so many people are going through/ have gone through the same thing and they are healing.  Some of them are completely well.

 

Understand and believe this: when people say they are still healing years later they do not mean that they felt the same level of misery you feel now for all that time.  I think that gets lost in the shuffle when people say they are still healing at 12 months or 18 months or 2 years.  I wish I could have understood that early on.  It would have saved me a lot of worry.  If you worry, your stress hormone, cortisol, goes up starts up the whole miserable glutamate reaction.  But know this: You are not going to feel what you understand right now to be WD for years, I don't believe -- not unrelentingly.  You will get breaks from symptoms, and you will have the intensity of symptoms decrease to the level of mere annoyance.  Each time they come back, they will be different and of a different intensity.  The trajectory will be toward greater comfort and less discomfort overall.

 

Peace,

 

Rosetta

 

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16629-rosetta-ct-may-2011-too-fast-taper-feb-2017/?page=25

2001-2011 Celexa 10 mg raised to 40 mg then 60 mg over this time period

May 2011 OB Doctor's Cold switch Celexa 60 mg to 10 mg Zoloft sertraline (baby born)

2012-2016 - Doctors raised dose of Zoloft up to 150 mg

2016 - Xanax prescribed - as needed - 0.5 mg about every 3 days (bad reaction)

2016 - Stopped Xanax

Late 2016- Began (too fast) taper of Zoloft

Early 2017 - Trazodone prescribed for bedtime (doseage unknown)

Feb 2017 - Completed taper/stopped Trazodone

Drug free since Feb 2017

2017 - Unisom otc very rarely for sleep

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5 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

 

 

Why did the Mods suggest reinstating Paxil instead of Zoloft?  I'm not comfortable answering that.  I think I know why, but please ask a Mod.  I could be wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

Wow Rosetta, great post! You should be a moderator, bless you for your experience and your kind words. To clarify, they DID NOT advise me to reinstate Paxil, I found this site WAY too late into my journey after I had already tried to reinstate Zoloft (at too high a dose and not consistant) and Lexapro (probably the same issues as the Zoloft), and was already well into my Paxil journey. They are doing their best to sort through and clean up the crazy mess I had already made. Had I just reinstated 25mgs or less of Zoloft after being off for 3 months and held until I felt better, no question I would be in a much better place by now, but I unfortunately didn't know any different. 

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

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24 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Gridley feels that your reinstatement is off to a good start. Altostrata suspects the dose is too high.  However, at this point, they seem to feel there is evidence you reinstated the right drug.  Maybe they can tell you what they believe about Paxil being the right one, and why they believe that.  As I said, I think I know, but I'm pretty new to all of this.

 

 

Have they talked to you about me? I don't remember Gridley telling me my reinstatement is off to a good start, and Altostrata has never posted on this thread. 

2008 - October 28th, 2016: Zoloft 50 - 150 mgs, settled on 50mgs from 2011 - 2016.
January 23rd - March 1st 2017: Zoloft 50mgs, direct switch to Lexapro.
March 1st - May 1st 2017: Lexapro 10 mgs, down to 5mgs for a week, then off.
June 1st - July 31st 2017: Paxil 20mgs, Lyrica 600mgs
August 1st - September 30th 2017: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
October 1st  - November 12th 2017: Paxil 60mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs
November 12th, 2017 - September 4th 2018: Paxil 40mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs 

September 4th - September 27th: Paxil 30mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

September 28th - November 7th: Paxil 20mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs (Also Testosterone Therapy started in June 2018 and ended in November 2018)

November 7th 2018 - February 22nd 2019: Paxil 10mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs

February 22nd 2019 - April 17th: Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin 1mgs

April 17th - Now: Zoloft 25mgs, Zyprexa 2.5mgs, Klonopin .5mgs

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14 minutes ago, DaveB said:

 

 

 

16 minutes ago, DaveB said:

 

Wow Rosetta, great post! You should be a moderator, 

 

 

Ha ha!  Not quite!! Gee thanks, but I'm pretty clueless, I think.  The marbles are rolling around up there, and too many have fallen out of my ears.  However, I have been thinking all the same things you have been thinking (I'm doomed; I'm doomed). and I had answers to those "negative thoughts" courtesy of my new brain!  (My new brain which seems to think you and Justin are too much alike, but at least it's a new brain that is responding to CBT!  Yeah! )

 

Good God what a mess those "trusted medical doctors" have created!!  It must be really embarrassing to the ones who have opened their eyes.

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/16629-rosetta-ct-may-2011-too-fast-taper-feb-2017/?page=25

2001-2011 Celexa 10 mg raised to 40 mg then 60 mg over this time period

May 2011 OB Doctor's Cold switch Celexa 60 mg to 10 mg Zoloft sertraline (baby born)

2012-2016 - Doctors raised dose of Zoloft up to 150 mg

2016 - Xanax prescribed - as needed - 0.5 mg about every 3 days (bad reaction)

2016 - Stopped Xanax

Late 2016- Began (too fast) taper of Zoloft

Early 2017 - Trazodone prescribed for bedtime (doseage unknown)

Feb 2017 - Completed taper/stopped Trazodone

Drug free since Feb 2017

2017 - Unisom otc very rarely for sleep

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