success ☼ Gussy: 9 weeks off effexor wondering if it will ever end?

[Gussy]

Hi guys. My name is Gus from australia. I started 1 topic in this section but thought i'd start another. I'm 10 weeks at zero effexor after a too fast taper according to knowledgable people on this site but have decided to stick it out for now. After reading other peoples experiences of withdrawal i feel i may be one of the lucky ones. Anyway, question time: How many other people out there feel it in your brain? Not the zaps but those feelings, you know the ones. In the back bottom corners, in your temples, straight along the top of your head and everywhere else at times? Do you ever feel like your eyes are trying to open more? It can't be just me and it can't only be effexor withdrawers. The waves are now being interupted by some bloody good windows which is a big improvement from a month or two ago when it just felt like a big wave that got a tiny bit weaker at times. Maybe it's the magnesium and fish oil too, i just don't know. But i don't care either. Share your brain feelings.

Gus.

Edited July 3, 2017 by scallywag
merge posts from "Effexor - does anyone else feel it in their brain?" in Symptoms

[powerback]

hi gussy ,I get constant headaches and my brain hurts like a sore muscle would .I'm months like this .just started micro taper and I know I'm in for a serious nasty withdrawl

[Gussy]

Hi everyone, gus from australia again. Been at zero effexor for about 11 weeks now after too quick of a taper. I've noticed what i think to be a pattern and i'm wondering if it's like this for others. When i wake up i'll feel ok for about an hour then i'll feel it in my mind etc for most of the day up and down. As night time approaches i usually start to feel calmer. Is this the case for many others? Also, i've started to get headaches over the last few days and have periods of pretty bad sleepiness. Not terrible headaches but they are there. I started seeing a naturopath for reasons not related to comming off effexor and was prescribed zinc (a taste test showed i was a bit low in it) and vitamin b as a starter. Does anyone know if these may aggrivate withdrawal symptoms? Still seriously considering reinstatement. Thanks again, Gus.

Edited July 11, 2017 by scallywag
merged new topic from Symptoms, "Effexor withdrawal and supplement questions"

[Gussy]

Gus from aus again. I have a question for the moderator mammaP or any other effexor people who reinstated. What symtoms led you to reinstate and how severe were they? How many weeks/months past zero or after a dose drop were you when you reinstated? Just trying to gague my symptoms against the symptoms of others who reinstated. I think i'm doing ok but would like to know from others what led you to reinstate.

Thanks again, Gus.

Edited July 11, 2017 by scallywag
merged new topic from Symptoms, "What led you to Effexor reinstatement?"

[scallywag]

Gussy, you posted 2 topics in the Symptoms forum with the questions:

- What symptoms led you to reinstate Effexor?

- Does zinc and/or vitamin B aggravate withdrawal symptoms?

 

I've merged these topics into your introduction so that all your information, questions and answers are in one place. This site works a bit differently from others you may use or be familiar with; it's okay that you didn't know or hadn't noticed. We use your introduction as THE ONE AND ONLY for information about your individual situation.  It makes it far easier for us to answer future questions if your entire history is in one topic. Can you imagine what it would be like if we had to find and then read dozens of topics? It really is best for you too -- you'll get faster answers to your questions when they're posted in this topic in the Introductions & Updates forum.  THIS is where the action is.

 

My answers to your questions:

1. I can't answer this one. I came off Effexor 12-13 years ago but didn't reinstate.
    
2. Some people find B-vitamins too stimulating and that taking them aggravates symptoms. We suggest that you NOT take a B-complex and that instead you take individual supplements and that you start them one at a time.  A B-complex could have 10 or more different "Bs". When taking a tablet or capsule that has several active ingredients, a "complex", and a symptom or set of symptoms arise, it is difficult to identify the cause the problem. Here's a link of the search results for topics in the Symptoms and self-care forum with "Vitamin B" in the topic title:
   http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/search/&q="vitamin B"&type=forums_topic&nodes=8&sortby=relevancy&search_in=titles
   
   Zinc: Here's a topic where members have posted information about Supplementing with zinc.

 

 

[Gussy]

Hi scallywag. Thanks for your reply and info. Will have a look at it. So am i right in thinking that if i have any questions i should just ask them in this page i'm on now? Seeing as you came off effexor how did you it? I really feel like my withdrawal symptoms mightn't be too bad compared to others.

Thanks again, Gus.

[scallywag]

Gussy, When I came off Effexor in the '00s, I had a difficult time because my taper was TOO FAST.  I reduced weekly by 10% of the beads in an Effexor XR capsule. This is not the recommended approach and I had symptoms for quite a while -- brain zaps, crying spells and low mood, high irritability, insomnia.  I can't remember the timeline or many of the details, so probably can't answer questions you might have. 

 

Remember that each person's experience is just that -- that ONE person's experience. Your own experience may be better or worse. Neither fear that your withdrawal will be as bad as the worst you've read nor expect that yours will be as good as the easiest.  Accept your symptoms for what they are -- symptoms -- and know that they will pass and that you will recover.

[Gussy]

Hi again scallywag, thanks for your reply. I am managing, able to work which is the most important thing i think. I can sleep although i've started stirring earlier in the morning now. I can eat, sometimes appetite is low but not going to die from it. I just dont want to reinstate if its not needed. Other's experiences with needing to reinstate seem much worse. You are right about symptoms passing which is comforting. I know the nights will be better than the days and get through them until the calm comes. You guys are right about comparing months as i feel better than i did even a month ago. Plenty of down moments though but maybe not as strong as they were a while ago. Must still have a long time to go though. Thanks for your reply.Gus.

[Gussy]

On 7/11/2017 at 0:04 AM, scallywag said:

.Some people find B-vitamins too stimulating and that taking them aggravates symptoms. We suggest that you NOT take a B-complex and that instead you take individual supplements and that you start them one at a time.  A B-complex could have 10 or more different "Bs". When taking a tablet or capsule that has several active ingredients, a "complex", and a symptom or set of symptoms arise, it is difficult to identify the cause the problem. Here's a link of the search results for topics in the Symptoms and self-care forum with "Vitamin B" in the topic title:

1. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/search/&q="vitamin B"&type=forums_topic&nodes=8&sortby=relevancy&search_in=titles
   
   Zinc: Here's a topic where members have posted information about Supplementing with zinc.

 

 

Hi scallywag, I avoided my vitamin B this morning and I think it may already be helping. I don't feel quite as edgy yet today so thank you for that. Gus.

Edited July 12, 2017 by scallywag
trim quote to relevant section

[Gussy]

Wow what a day. I think what i've been feeling lately was a biild up to a rough period. The cry babies have come back today for me. Keep thinking of the healing graph. The emotions behind the crying seem a tiny bit less strong than a month or two ago. I hope this is a sign of some improvement. Stupid me has been listening to song all day, i'm usually set of by music too. True colours by cindy lauper. It's about her friend who killed himself but the words carry some meaning in this i think. Being sad etc and waiting for the true colours to come out. The emotion goes away pretty quick when i turn it off. Rant over. Gus.

[Gussy]

Hi everyone. I've been of effexor for 13 or 14 weeks now. Things are slowly improving which is good. However, i've got an awful cold now and it's in my chest. I want to go to the dr to get some antibiotics but i wonder if they may make my withdrawal worse in any way? I'm doing pretty well lately and don't want to do anything that might send me backwards. Any informed replies would be really appreciated. Maybe suggestions of what to take/avoid. Thanks, Gus.

[peng]

Some people on here report problems when taking antibiotics with ADs.

I had to take 3 types of antibiotics earlier this year, each one stronger than the previous, to conquer a chest, then sinus infection lasting months.

In 2016 I had 5 courses due to dental abcesses and persistent sinusitis.

I cannot report any adverse effects on adding antibiotics to the mix, despite being on withdrawal of effexor.  Maybe that was just me.

[scallywag]

Gussy, the antibiotics that seem to cause problems for people in withdrawal are fluoroquinone medications.  Please read:

Cipro, Levaquin, Azithromycin, Z-pack and other antibiotics

[Gussy]

Hi guys gus from aus here. I.ve been off effexor for just over 4 months now and doing ok. A lot better than when i first got to zero anyway. I.ve noticed in the last week or so that i.m becomming quite light headed at times and don.t have much energy. Sometimes the muscles in my arms/forearms fell weak and strange. Also, i occasionally feel something strange in the top of my brain but nowhere near as bad as earlier on.  Could these be new withdrawal symptoms creeping in? Has anyone else experienced this and it has finally gone away? I have been on a zinc supplement every day for about 6 weeks and i read if too much is taken it can cause light headedness but i haven.t taken it for 4 days so don.t know what to blame. I can only eat about 2/3 of what i used to since i stopped also, so i.ve lost about 8 kilos. Any good advice will be greatly appreciated, Gus.

[ChessieCat]

55 minutes ago, Gussy said:

Sometimes the muscles in my arms/forearms fell weak and strange.

 

I've been experiencing a strange heavy feeling in my arms first thing a morning for the last few days.  I think, at least for me, that it might be due to cortisol surges.

 

From: https://beyondmeds.com/2011/07/28/ssriprotractedwithdrawal/

 

With the locus coeruleus reacting with “fight or flight” to the least stimulation, the dysregulated alerting system causes inappropriate production of the “fight or flight” hormones norepinephrine, noradrenaline, and cortisol. Spurts of elevated cortisol cause many symptoms, from muscle stiffness and pain to waves of anxiety, panic, and despair. CNS instability causes “autonomic dumping.”

 

waking-with-panic-or-anxiety-managing-cortisol-spikes

 

forest-bathing-reduces-cortisol-aids-mood-immune-system

 

[baroquep]

Hi Gussy, without having clear dates of your tapering history, it is going to be hard to determine the cause of your current symptoms, whether or not they new symptoms or will continue to get worse.  

 

If you don't mind, could you please update your withdrawal history signature to include the following information in the format outlined?

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

    •    Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.

    •    A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 

    •    Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.

    •    Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)

    •    Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.

 

I note that Scallywag answered your questions regarding since back in July.  Please see link regarding zinc below.

 

On 2017-07-11 at 0:04 AM, scallywag said:

Gussy, you posted 2 topics in the Symptoms forum with the questions:

- What symptoms led you to reinstate Effexor?

- Does zinc and/or vitamin B aggravate withdrawal symptoms?

 

I've merged these topics into your introduction so that all your information, questions and answers are in one place. This site works a bit differently from others you may use or be familiar with; it's okay that you didn't know or hadn't noticed. We use your introduction as THE ONE AND ONLY for information about your individual situation.  It makes it far easier for us to answer future questions if your entire history is in one topic. Can you imagine what it would be like if we had to find and then read dozens of topics? It really is best for you too -- you'll get faster answers to your questions when they're posted in this topic in the Introductions & Updates forum.  THIS is where the action is.

 

My answers to your questions:

1. I can't answer this one. I came off Effexor 12-13 years ago but didn't reinstate.
    
2. Some people find B-vitamins too stimulating and that taking them aggravates symptoms. We suggest that you NOT take a B-complex and that instead you take individual supplements and that you start them one at a time.  A B-complex could have 10 or more different "Bs". When taking a tablet or capsule that has several active ingredients, a "complex", and a symptom or set of symptoms arise, it is difficult to identify the cause the problem. Here's a link of the search results for topics in the Symptoms and self-care forum with "Vitamin B" in the topic title:
   http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/search/&q="vitamin B"&type=forums_topic&nodes=8&sortby=relevancy&search_in=titles
   
   Zinc: Here's a topic where members have posted information about Supplementing with zinc.

 

 

 

 

[Gussy]

Hi baroquep thanks for your reply. I.m pretty sure i.ve survived the worst of it. The uncontrolable emotions, dreading every day, the feelings in your brain, crying for no reason, anger, shivering and everything else seems to have passed or gotten much weaker than it was. I thought it would never end but things are much better than three months ago. I.ve started feeling the light headedness in the last week or so. My taper was too quick but it had to be unfortunately. Cold turkey would have been worse and i couldn.t have done that anyway. I tried updating my details with the link you provided, i hope it worked. Gus.

[Gussy]

Just had a very annoying appointment with a doctor. I asked if my hormones could be retested after a test in January showed my testosterone at the lower end of the scale. I also told him about the sexual changes I've felt since stopping Effexor. He had the nerve to say it was all in my head. Gotta say I've lost a lot of faith in doctors regarding these matters. Gus.

[ChessieCat]

9 minutes ago, Gussy said:

Gotta say I've lost a lot of faith in doctors regarding these matters.

 

I think many if not most of us here at SA feel the same.

10 minutes ago, Gussy said:

I also told him about the sexual changes I've felt since stopping Effexor.

 

At least you know better.

[Gussy]

Thanks for your support chessiecat. I was so angry with his response. I wont go into detail about changes that have happened and the difference i feel now but i know what i feel now is not in my head cause i feel it down there. I have feelings in my brain that i feel IN MY HEAD cause thats where it is. He tried to put me into a category of people who have to take meds which made me even more annoyed the idiot. He recommended seeing a phych too which i don.t need either. Man these drs are clowns. Thanks again 

[ChessieCat]

Comparing them to clowns is offensive to clowns even though I don't like clowns.

[powerback]

1 hour ago, Gussy said:

Thanks for your support chessiecat. I was so angry with his response. I wont go into detail about changes that have happened and the difference i feel now but i know what i feel now is not in my head cause i feel it down there. I have feelings in my brain that i feel IN MY HEAD cause thats where it is. He tried to put me into a category of people who have to take meds which made me even more annoyed the idiot. He recommended seeing a phych too which i don.t need either. Man these drs are clowns. Thanks again 

Hi gussy ,its simple don't go near that doctor again ,we need to be interviewing them to see if they meet our standards ,these people need a huge tip from there pedestal ,it infuriates me ,there arrogance .I don't dislike them as human beings but we need to take control back away from them .

PB

[nz11]

3 hours ago, Gussy said:

He had the nerve to say it was all in my head

Gussy please consider changing doctors and then make a complaints against your ex doctor....

This is what I did.

 

[Gussy]

Wow thanks everyone for the replies. Nz11 i.ve already decided against seeing one doctor now i have another one i wont see. A good idea for these drs would be for them to go on antidepressants for 6 months then go cold turkey. Then go back on them and ween according to their timelines they give pateints then ween slower then pop out the other side after the hell. They could learn a lot. I have a question too. Do many people experience light headedness as a withdrawal symptom? Thanks guys, Gus.

[ChessieCat]

24 minutes ago, Gussy said:

Do many people experience light headedness as a withdrawal symptom?

 

There seems to be a wide variety of "head" withdrawal symptoms.  I personally have experienced painful ear pressure when I have made too large a reduction.  Some other members have had what they term "floaty boat" feeling.

 

Here is a topic:  dizziness-vertigo-light-headedness-etc

[Gussy]

Thanks again chessiecat. It must be a part of it. I.ve had the uncomfortable brain feelings with all the emotions which have left me now thank god. That was terrible. I could feel it in different areas of my brain on different days. Then some time later in the same areas again. This isn.t much compared to that but still good to know. The dr today took my blood pressure, annoyed the hell outta me then sent me on my way. I see you.re from the best country in the world too, cool.

[Gussy]

I've noticed what i'm feeling seems to be happening and easing at similar times each day to the terrible things i was feeling for the first 3 months at zero. It seems to be at its most noticable à few hours after i wake until late afternoon then its eases a bit. Must be a new stage of wd.

[Gussy]

Hi everyone. Gus from Aus again. 6 months at zero effexor now. Can anyone tell me if they've had any low blood pressure kinds of withdrawal symptoms? During the day i'll get light headed at times and i wonder if wd could be to blame? The dr checked my bp and said it was fine. I can't ignore what's happening though. Thanks again, Gus.  

[AliG]

Hi Gus. Problems with blood pressure are quite normal in withdrawal. 

 

Quote from Alto :http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/90-low-blood-pressure/

 

Some people seem to get lower blood pressure and some people get higher blood pressure. I had higher blood pressure. Acupuncture was very helpful. My blood pressure is normal now.

 

Blood pressure is controlled by the autonomic nervous system, which gets whacked by withdrawal syndrome. So blood pressure problems are quite common.

 

People with low blood pressure are often encouraged to drink enough water. This can help increase blood pressure.

 

 

I hope this helps to ease your mind a little. My thoughts through out this W/D  have been ... if in doubt ... it's usually withdrawal. I don't bother with tests or doctors anymore however some do tend to get anxious and if that is the case, it can sometimes help to get the symptoms checked.

[Gussy]

Thanks for the quick reply AliG. I've already decided against talking to 2 drs about wd as they dismiss what i say. You probably know how they are too. The light headedness has started over the last 4-6 weeks. It bothers me a bit but nowhere near as much as the first 3 months at zero. Thanks again i will give it a few more months before i worry about it too much, Gus.

[Gussy]

Does anyone know how long this might last?

[Gussy]

Hi everyone gus from Australia again. I'm probably posting this in the wrong section but I really don't know where else to post it. I have a friend who's considering starting a Citalopram or Zoloft. After knowing what it's like to go off these kinds of meds and what you have to go through and what I'm still going through I can only suggest to him to look for natural remedies as it's too painful to stop these kinds of meds. The only way you can do it is if you have a very very big reason to nut out that kind of Madness. I suggested magnesium to him but I'm unsure if it will help with depression or if it can only help with withdrawal. So I'm asking on this site if anyone can suggest some natural remedies like supplements etc to help my friend as I don't want to see him go down the same path of dependence as I did. If he ever decides to get off the meds he will be in for a major shock and if that could be avoided I would like to be able to help him. I believe there are people that really need these kinds of meds but others could probably find a natural way,i think most of the time these meds are the devil's juice. So if anyone has any good ideas can you please tell me. Thanks again, Gus.

[Gussy]

Hi again everyone. Gus from aus. I've been off effexor for just over 6 months now. I've lost a lot of weight in that time. About 10 kilos. My appetite diminished and i just couldn't eat as much each time i ate and didn't feel like it anyway. I also feel a lot weaker than i used to be. I'm starting to feel more hungry at times than i have lately and am able to eat a little more too. Has anyone had a similar experience and ended up getting their appetite and strength back? At least the out of control emotions and shivers are gone. Thanks again, Gus.

[ChessieCat]

On 24/10/2017 at 1:33 PM, Gussy said:

Hi everyone gus from Australia again. I'm probably posting this in the wrong section but I really don't know where else to post it. I have a friend who's considering starting a Citalopram or Zoloft. After knowing what it's like to go off these kinds of meds and what you have to go through and what I'm still going through I can only suggest to him to look for natural remedies as it's too painful to stop these kinds of meds. The only way you can do it is if you have a very very big reason to nut out that kind of Madness. I suggested magnesium to him but I'm unsure if it will help with depression or if it can only help with withdrawal. So I'm asking on this site if anyone can suggest some natural remedies like supplements etc to help my friend as I don't want to see him go down the same path of dependence as I did. If he ever decides to get off the meds he will be in for a major shock and if that could be avoided I would like to be able to help him. I believe there are people that really need these kinds of meds but others could probably find a natural way,i think most of the time these meds are the devil's juice. So if anyone has any good ideas can you please tell me. Thanks again, Gus.

 

The book Your Drug May Be Your Problem by Dr Peter Breggin who is a psychiatrist who does not prescribe drugs (link to Simple Truths About Psychiatry below).  Also Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker.  Included in this book is the history of antidepressants.

 

I created a website which has links on one of the pages to sites I have found on the internet.  I suggest you give him the link https://adwithdrawal.weebly.com  (because it's a free site, it is not searchable).

 

These in particular are excellent:

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)
 

CBT Course:  An Introductory Self-Help Course in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy
 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  We’re Trained To Misinform -The Drugs ARE Dangerous (6 minute video)

Interview:  Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (51 minutes Gwen Olsen - ex pharmaceutical representative)

 

Video:  Simple Truths About Psychiatry - Series of 10 by Dr Peter Breggin

 

AND:

____________________________________

Antidepressants and the Placebo Effect by Irving Kirsch (link to full article)

Abstract:

Antidepressants are supposed to work by fixing a chemical imbalance, specifically, a lack of serotonin in the brain.  Indeed, their supposed effectiveness is the primary evidence for the chemical imbalance theory.  But analyses of the published data and the unpublished data that were hidden by drug companies reveals that most (if not all) of the benefits are due to the placebo effect.  Some antidepressants increase serotonin levels, some decrease it, and some have no effect at all on serotonin.  Nevertheless, they all show the same therapeutic benefit.  Even the small statistical difference between antidepressants and placebos may be an enhanced placebo effect, due to the fact that most patients and doctors in clinical trials successfully break blind.  The serotonin theory is as close as any theory in the history of science to having been proved wrong.  Instead of curing depression, popular antidepressants may induce a biological vulnerability making people more likely to become depressed in the future.

Excerpt:

How Did These Drugs Get Approved?
....
The FDA requires two adequately conducted clinical trials showing a significant difference between drug and placebo.  But there is a loophole:  there is no limit to the number of trials that can be conducted in search of these two significant trials.  Trials showing negative results simply do not count.  Furthermore, the clinical significance of the findings is not considered.  All that matters is that the results are statistically significant.
....
(NB:  emphasis in abstract and excerpt are mine)

____________________________________

 

 

[Gussy]

Thanks for that ChessieCat. I will pass it on. I don't know if i like the sound of that psych who thinks its a placebo effect however. That might mean he doesn't recognise withdrawal and we can all say it's real. Gus.

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Gussy said:

I don't know if i like the sound of that psych who thinks its a placebo effect however.

 

This is the video which is very interesting and explains about him getting the information of the drug tests through Freedom of Information.  It's not so much placebo per se but more to do with how the tests are run and how the results are compiled.

 

Video:  Irving Kirsch:  Emperor's New Drugs:  Antidepressants and the Placebo Effect (1 hour 20 minutes)