☼ dj2010: off all meds for 3 months and been fine now bad insomnia

[AliG]

DJ. Has it been 4 months off Effexor? Did you taper or cold turkey? Would you mind simplifying your signature? I'm pro - reinstatement but I thought you were approximately 4 - 5 months out. Is that correct?

[dj2010]

2 minutes ago, AliG said:

DJ. Has it been 4 months off Effexor? Did you taper or cold turkey? Would you mind simplifying your signature? I'm pro - reinstatement but I thought you were approximately 4 - 5 months out. Is that correct?

Hi AliG, it has been almost 5 months off venlafaxine now, I tapered it over at least 6 months, i also tapered quitiapine at the same time but finished the last dose of that around feb/march, have previously gone cold turkey off venlafaxine in around 2009 and was very ill but countered the withdrawals with more quietipaine and zanex, i stupidly went back on it in 2015,

 

If my withdrawals are now not going to get any worse then I think I can power through this as i am noticing big improvements in many areas, the only problem I have is insomnia and a bit of anxiety but only have anxiety on days where I have had poor sleep and the anxiety is only when thinking about if I will sleep, I have no depression or anything else really, surely the worse of withdrawals have now hit and things cant get much worse?

 

Also I was doing ok before trying CBD oil the other week which caused a very bad reaction,

 

the last thing i want to do is reinstate but I am scared things will get worse, i have 2 very young children to look after and a business to run so need to be able to be half functional,

 

yes my signature looks very complicated, I have been on and off so many different drugs at so many different times, I will try and simplify this tomorrow as need sort the kids now and then going to try relax and meditate and have a hot bath etc and then attempt sleep,

 

thanks so much for your valuable time with this

[AliG]

DJ. It's almost 4 am here. Let's talk some more about this tomorrow.   

[dj2010]

11 hours ago, AliG said:

DJ. It's almost 4 am here. Let's talk some more about this tomorrow.   

AliG, the same last night, i fell asleep quite easy at around 9pm but woke 45 minutes later, i could not sleep then, even though i felt calm i did not feel sleepy, i tried hot shower ect and still nothing, got to 1pm and i took 4 mg diazepem, that didnt work so i took another 4mg and that worked but only got me 3 hours sleep, I feel awful and ill today and dont know how i am going to cope, I cant function like this, 

 

what should i do? do you think reinstating 3 mg venlafaxine or less is a good idea and might solve this insomnia or think i should try and power through another night and see how it goes? 

 

[AliG]

Hi DJ. I'm sorry to hear that.

Alto put it very well when she said in an earlier post :

"Stabilization from going off psychiatric drugs is very gradual. It can be confusing and frustrating, with fits and starts. You can have good days or nights here and then have some bad days. You will need to stay calm and keep on a self-care course throughout, avoid throwing in drugs and supplements such as the occasional diazepam only muddies the waters.

 

Benzos such as diazepam often will make you feel better at first, then as they wear off, you get rebound anxiety and sleeplessness. They cause more problems than they solve."

 

I would give it some more time as you have had periods recently where your sleep was very good. It may be the diazepam use that is causing this and is something to watch.Perhaps you could try some melatonin instead.

 

This may be a temporary phase. I'm going through one myself of a few weeks of insomnia after having a long period where I was sleeping really well. It's just the windows and waves nature of withdrawal.

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Let's see how you go over the next week as it may settle down .

 

[dj2010]

26 minutes ago, AliG said:

Hi DJ. I'm sorry to hear that.

Alto put it very well when she said in an earlier post :

"Stabilization from going off psychiatric drugs is very gradual. It can be confusing and frustrating, with fits and starts. You can have good days or nights here and then have some bad days. You will need to stay calm and keep on a self-care course throughout, avoid throwing in drugs and supplements such as the occasional diazepam only muddies the waters.

 

Benzos such as diazepam often will make you feel better at first, then as they wear off, you get rebound anxiety and sleeplessness. They cause more problems than they solve."

 

I would give it some more time as you have had periods recently where your sleep was very good. It may be the diazepam use that is causing this and is something to watch.Perhaps you could try some melatonin instead.

 

This may be a temporary phase. I'm going through one myself of a few weeks of insomnia after having a long period where I was sleeping really well. It's just the windows and waves nature of withdrawal.

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

Let's see how you go over the next week as it may settle down .

 

thanks for your reply, I have long release melatonin which used to work well at first but doesn't seem to work anymore, I will try and power through a bit longer but seriously wont be able to take much more of this, if I didnt have 2 kids to look after and work then it wouldn't be such a problem as I could just rest all day,

 

say if i did reinstate 3 mg of venlafaxine, could that small of a dose cause a big reaction? could it cause massive problems or would just be a case of stopping it and carrying on powering through?

[powerback]

1 hour ago, dj2010 said:

thanks for your reply, I have long release melatonin which used to work well at first but doesn't seem to work anymore, I will try and power through a bit longer but seriously wont be able to take much more of this, if I didnt have 2 kids to look after and work then it wouldn't be such a problem as I could just rest all day,

 

say if i did reinstate 3 mg of venlafaxine, could that small of a dose cause a big reaction? could it cause massive problems or would just be a case of stopping it and carrying on powering through?

Hi DJ sorry for you with this trouble ,I think I said this before but is there anyone to help with the kids and you get a rest .

Wishing u well .

PB

[dj2010]

thanks PB, going to phone my nan shortly to see if she can have them today, my kids are back at school tomorrow, its my daughters 1st day so i am going to have to deal with the teacher and see other parents etc, not looking forward to it

[powerback]

28 minutes ago, dj2010 said:

thanks PB, going to phone my nan shortly to see if she can have them today, my kids are back at school tomorrow, its my daughters 1st day so i am going to have to deal with the teacher and see other parents etc, not looking forward to it

Loads of deep breathing and watch out for your mind wandering into  nregative thoughts ,you need to be doing positive affirmations in the mirror for the fact your even coping as you are . Try practice today witnessing your thoughts and distract them when it wanders to tommorow.

[dj2010]

thanks for your support  PB, it is really appreciated during these tough times, the meditation is helping a lot with the negative thoughts but still tough to keep them away, I do keep telling myself how well I am doing,

 

still struggling to come to terms with what is happening to me, a few months ago I was drug free and on top of the world feeling the best I have in my life at the gym every day etc and then just as thought it was all over I get dragged back into the hell,

 

what is happening to us all should be front page news and we should all be compensated the same as when a hospital messes up a operation on someone etc

[powerback]

11 minutes ago, dj2010 said:

thanks for your support  PB, it is really appreciated during these tough times, the meditation is helping a lot with the negative thoughts but still tough to keep them away, I do keep telling myself how well I am doing,

 

still struggling to come to terms with what is happening to me, a few months ago I was drug free and on top of the world feeling the best I have in my life at the gym every day etc and then just as thought it was all over I get dragged back into the hell,

 

what is happening to us all should be front page news and we should all be compensated the same as when a hospital messes up a operation on someone etc

Exactly I agree but I have hope  and confidence in the likes of robert withaker ,peter gzothche peter breggin ,we need to keep in touch with there work ,they are forging the fight for us .

What you say about exerciseing is interesting ,when your well enough again ,going to the gym everyday will have to be cut back to every second or third day .even exerciseing affects  us negatively .

I spent the other day putting up a fence and I was wrecked for 2 days ,we need so much rest .

Nice walks is loads while recovering.

 

 

[dj2010]

On 03/09/2017 at 6:46 AM, AliG said:

Hi DJ. I'm sorry to hear that.

Alto put it very well when she said in an earlier post :

"Stabilization from going off psychiatric drugs is very gradual. It can be confusing and frustrating, with fits and starts. You can have good days or nights here and then have some bad days. You will need to stay calm and keep on a self-care course throughout, avoid throwing in drugs and supplements such as the occasional diazepam only muddies the waters.

 

Benzos such as diazepam often will make you feel better at first, then as they wear off, you get rebound anxiety and sleeplessness. They cause more problems than they solve."

 

I would give it some more time as you have had periods recently where your sleep was very good. It may be the diazepam use that is causing this and is something to watch.Perhaps you could try some melatonin instead.

 

This may be a temporary phase. I'm going through one myself of a few weeks of insomnia after having a long period where I was sleeping really well. It's just the windows and waves nature of withdrawal.

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

 

Let's see how you go over the next week as it may settle down .

 

tried melatonin last night and got 1 and half hours sleep, i was in a half awake half sleep state some of the night also, i just could not drift off into a deep sleep, i forced myself not to take any diazepem, feel like death today, anxiety is high and I have been physically sick, going to need to call on family and hope they can help me through the day again, not eaten a meal in days now, im a complete wreck

[powerback]

11 minutes ago, dj2010 said:

tried melatonin last night and got 1 and half hours sleep, i was in a half awake half sleep state some of the night also, i just could not drift off into a deep sleep, i forced myself not to take any diazepem, feel like death today, anxiety is high and I have been physically sick, going to need to call on family and hope they can help me through the day again, not eaten a meal in days now, im a complete wreck

Good you calling on family DJ ,if your geting a smothie in you thats more nutrients than some dinners I see .take care a try your best to relax ,believe this isn't permanent

PB

[dj2010]

2 hours ago, powerback said:

Good you calling on family DJ ,if your geting a smothie in you thats more nutrients than some dinners I see .take care a try your best to relax ,believe this isn't permanent

PB

just tried a smootie now, im not good at all, im in tears and scared, dont know how im going to get through this

[powerback]

3 hours ago, dj2010 said:

just tried a smootie now, im not good at all, im in tears and scared, dont know how im going to get through this

Try not judge the tears float with it and distract  as best you can for the fear  ,believe it will pass it did for me last week .even a game on your phone,I have a snooker game I play 

Take care 

PB

[powerback]

How you this evening DJ I hope you feel better soon ,such a pain .

PB

[dj2010]

im not too bad at the moment, a bit of anxiety and worry, going to take a hot bath soon and then attempt sleep again, thanks for your support

[powerback]

42 minutes ago, dj2010 said:

im not too bad at the moment, a bit of anxiety and worry, going to take a hot bath soon and then attempt sleep again, thanks for your support

Of course DJ solidarity all the way .I myself have had 2 of my best days for a while .so its a nice change .its funny I'm not sure I call it a window or just less crapy  feeling than normal ,but there was aspects of my old character coming out yesterday ,witch fills me with strength .

sorry for going on about my window on your thread  .

Take great care

PB

[dj2010]

11 hours ago, powerback said:

Of course DJ solidarity all the way .I myself have had 2 of my best days for a while .so its a nice change .its funny I'm not sure I call it a window or just less crapy  feeling than normal ,but there was aspects of my old character coming out yesterday ,witch fills me with strength .

sorry for going on about my window on your thread  .

Take great care

PB

 

hi PB, thats great to hear glad you are having a window and hope it lasts, feel free to post about your windows, the more positive posts the better, your old character will come out more and more the lower dose you get to, the drugs create a false character,

 

My sleep was a bit better last night, i fell asleep during my sleep meditation exercise but woke after 20 minutes later and then had anxiety because i only had 20 mins sleep, i started to get hot and bothered so i turned my fan on and this cooled me down and calmed me, i then managed to sleep for another 1 hour before i woke, i fell asleep again for another 1 hour and woke again, i then fell asleep for around another 1 and half hours before i woke, it was around 1 am then and i was then awake till around 4am, I managed to drift off for a little bit longer at around 4am, this was without any sleep aids

 

i still dont feel too good today and have a pain in my head but i feel quite a bit better than yesterday

 

 

[dj2010]

last night slept from around 9.15 until 12.40 so nearly 3 and half hours of solid sleep which was happy about but could not get back to sleep, been awake all night and feeling very weak, not safe for me to drive today so its going to be a struggle, forcing myself not to take any diazepem as it could be them thats causing this

[dj2010]

mods, I am almost unable to function through lack of sleep, had to walk kids to school in rain as unable to drive and relying on family to pick them up from school etc, I have hardly eaten in many days and rapidly losing weight,

 

if things dont improve over the next few days do you think it is too risky to reinstate venlafaxine? would i not be better reinstating a small amount of quitiapine to counter the venlafaxine withdrawals and then taper from quitiapine when my wife gets her visa in a few months and is here to take over with the kids?,

 

please advise

[ChessieCat]

On 03/09/2017 at 3:35 AM, dj2010 said:

it has been almost 5 months off venlafaxine now, I tapered it over at least 6 months, i also tapered quitiapine at the same time but finished the last dose of that around feb/march, have previously gone cold turkey off venlafaxine in around 2009 and was very ill but countered the withdrawals with more quietipaine and zanex

 

From your previous experience with venlafaxine (highlighted in the quote) it would seem that your withdrawal symptoms are most likely from the venlafaxine.

 

There is no mention in your signature of the dose you last took so it is difficult to suggest a reinstatement dose you could try.  I can see you online now.  Are you able to provide that info?

 

[dj2010]

Just now, ChessieCat said:

 

From your previous experience with venlafaxine (highlighted in the quote) it would seem that your withdrawal symptoms are most likely from the venlafaxine.

 

There is no mention in your signature of the dose you last took so it is difficult to suggest a reinstatement dose you could try.  I can see you online now.  Are you able to provide that info?

 

I am not sure of the last dose I took, I just cut the tablets into quarters and then right at the end cut the quarters up and took a tiny bits, 

[dj2010]

Just now, dj2010 said:

I am not sure of the last dose I took, I just cut the tablets into quarters and then right at the end cut the quarters up and took a tiny bits, 

6 little tablets in the capsules, so each one is 12.5 mg, so each quarter would be 3.1 mg

[ChessieCat]

If they are dissolvable in water you could do that.  My thought would be to try 0.5mg or 1mg  so you would have to divide your dose, if you dissolved 1/4 of a mini tablet, into 6 or 3.  The more accurate you can get the dose the better.  If they don't dissolve you may have to try crushing it and dividing it up to get your dose.  You could do this until you can a script for liquid venlafaxine.

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

The idea of reinstatement isn't to get rid of withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a bearable level.  If you haven't read this About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms please do so.

 

The reason such a small dose is suggested is that these drugs are strong and if you find the reinstatement worsens your symptoms you can stop immediately.  It takes about 4 days for the dose to get to a steady state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  Please Keep Notes on Paper so that you can see if reinstatement is working.  If the symptoms do improve a bit, it is best to stay at that dose.  However, if the symptoms don't start to improve at all after 4 days you could try increasing the dose by a tiny bit more.  It is better to start at a very low dose and work up bit by bit if needed rather than starting with a higher dose and experiencing issues.

[dj2010]

2 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

If they are dissolvable in water you could do that.  My thought would be to try 0.5mg or 1mg  so you would have to divide your dose, if you dissolved 1/4 of a mini tablet, into 6 or 3.  The more accurate you can get the dose the better.  If they don't dissolve you may have to try crushing it and dividing it up to get your dose.  You could do this until you can a script for liquid venlafaxine.

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

The idea of reinstatement isn't to get rid of withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a bearable level.  If you haven't read this About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms please do so.

 

The reason such a small dose is suggested is that these drugs are strong and if you find the reinstatement worsens your symptoms you can stop immediately.  It takes about 4 days for the dose to get to a steady state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.  Please Keep Notes on Paper so that you can see if reinstatement is working.  If the symptoms do improve a bit, it is best to stay at that dose.  However, if the symptoms don't start to improve at all after 4 days you could try increasing the dose by a tiny bit more.  It is better to start at a very low dose and work up bit by bit if needed rather than starting with a higher dose and experiencing issues.

thanks for your reply, how do i dissolve the mini tablet?

[ChessieCat]

Here the SA topic:  How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

[dj2010]

2 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

Here the SA topic:  How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

ok thanks, I will try and see if they dissolve, if they do not then i will crush into powder and divide the powder,

 

I will try and power through another day or 2 to see if any improvement before trying this as last night i got 3 and half hours solid sleep which is the most solid sleep had in a while,

 

i was doing quite well until i tried CBD oil which gave a bad reaction and near panic attack

 

thanks so much

[powerback]

13 hours ago, dj2010 said:

ok thanks, I will try and see if they dissolve, if they do not then i will crush into powder and divide the powder,

 

I will try and power through another day or 2 to see if any improvement before trying this as last night i got 3 and half hours solid sleep which is the most solid sleep had in a while,

 

i was doing quite well until i tried CBD oil which gave a bad reaction and near panic attack

 

thanks so much

Hi DJ what a pain for you, I hope you get stable soon and look forward to the coming months with your wife home ,.

Is this setback definitely down to the CBD oil?.when your stable again do nothing but eat well and walks for months I reckon 

Take care 

PB

[dj2010]

4 minutes ago, powerback said:

Hi DJ what a pain for you, I hope you get stable soon and look forward to the coming months with your wife home ,.

Is this setback definitely down to the CBD oil?.when your stable again do nothing but eat well and walks for months I reckon 

Take care 

PB

Hi PB, since I had that bad reaction to CBD oil I have been very unstable with my sleep and not been able to recover, I have slight ringing in my ears now, I will likely try reinstating tomorrow if no better, thanks

[powerback]

12 hours ago, dj2010 said:

Hi PB, since I had that bad reaction to CBD oil I have been very unstable with my sleep and not been able to recover, I have slight ringing in my ears now, I will likely try reinstating tomorrow if no better, thanks

It's totally understandable to try new things because we get so desperate and rightly so ,but lesson learned for you .you will get stable again believe that and get a calender onto the wall and visibly watch the days counting down until your wife arrives home .

 

[dj2010]

thanks PB, how are you today?

[AliG]

Hi DJ: It seems you are intent on reinstating but it does come with some risk.

 

I will try and power through another day or 2 to see if any improvement before trying this as last night i got 3 and half hours solid sleep which is the most solid sleep had in a while,

 

That's a positive. 3 and a half hours solid sleep is pretty awesome around here.

Edited September 8, 2017 by AliG

[dj2010]

hi AliG, thanks for your reply, I understand but I can not look after my kids properly like this, my family have had to take care of them the last few days and they have work commitments so can not do much more, if I didnt have multiple school runs and to look after them I could sit this out a lot easier, I just need to get stable until my wife if here to take over with the kids in a few months, reinstatement is the last thing I want to do but i cant function like this and I have to be able to function so not sure what to do, 

Edited September 8, 2017 by AliG

[AliG]

Ok So what do you propose? if you feel you can't function, then possibly a small reinstatement is probably needed. What do you think ? I would try a very small reinstatement of 1mg and you could work your way up from there.

[dj2010]

3 minutes ago, AliG said:

Ok So what do you propose? if you feel you can't function, then possibly a small reinstatement is probably needed. What do you think ? I would try a very small reinstatement of 1mg and you could work your way up from there.

if there is no improvement soon then i will have no choice but to try something, if venlafaxine reinstatement is very risky then im thinking going back on a low dose of quitipine to counter the venlafaxine withdrawals as quitipaine is very sedating and will give me sleep, i honestly dont know whats best