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☼ dj2010: off all meds for 3 months and been fine now bad insomnia

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powerback
3 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

Hi, DJ.

 

SA doesn't recommend adding drugs to aid in withdrawal symptoms. No drug has been found that can help and usually causes more problems long term. A small reinstatement may help, but other than that, we don't recommend adding drugs. 

 

Estazolam is a benzodiazepine derivative, so that especially would not be indicated for someone who is 9 months off diazepam. 

 

Some thoughts:

 

Your periodic use of diazepam may become a problem, as diazepam has a half-life of up to 200 hours (8 days). Even "as needed" use of a benzo can cause dependency in as little as 2 - 4 weeks. 

 

You have come off quite a cocktail of drugs, as well as alcohol. This can cause a kindling reaction in your central nervous system (CNS), making your CNS increasingly hypersensitive.

 

Limbic Kindling -- Hardwiring the brain for hypersensitivity

 

I think you are entering the phase of withdrawal and recovery where your nervous system is becoming more and more sensitive even to things you were able to tolerate previously. Many of us become sensitive to certain foods, supplements, drugs we were able to tolerate previously, stress, and even exercise. Also, be careful of using a sauna, as heat can be a trigger for people going through withdrawal. Throwing your nervous system into any extreme state can stress it, especially when it's destabilized. 

 

Right now, nurturing your destabilized nervous system is key. Lots of variations in what you require of your nervous system will destabilize it even further. Gentle walks may be better right now than intense exercise. Remember, this is only temporary. Once you heal, you will be able to get back to it. These are a couple of videos that give some good tips on this and how you should proceed slowly.

 

Healing from antidepressants: The power of neuroplasticity - video 7 minutes

 

Healing from antidepressants. How to speed up the recovery process - video 5 minutes

 

I'm concerned about your use of supplements. Matcha green tea has caffeine in it, which may be increasing your insomnia. And Mucuna pruriens is a "mood enhancing" supplement which contains L-Dopa, the body’s pre-cursor to dopamine. So that one also may be contributing to your insomnia. 

 

The only two supplements SA recommends are magnesium and fish oil (Omega 3). It's best to add in only one supplement at a time and at a small dose. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker

 

King of supplements: Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

I really think at 3 months off you are just entering the phase of delayed withdrawal and your nervous system may be hyper-reacting to your supplements and high intensity interval training. You may find relief from the insomnia with some of the items listed here. The non-drug techniques for handling anxiety are particularly good for insomnia, as learning self-soothing techniques can help ease you into sleep. 

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms


Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Breathing techniques and the body scan are really good for learning how to relax for sleep. And this is something you can even share with your children. Calm children make for calm adults. ;)  Here are a couple of cartoon versions of the 4-7-8 Breathing Technique and The Body Scan that you and your children can use:

 

4-7-8 Breathing Exercise by GoZen - video 3.5 minutes

 

Body Scan Meditation by GoZen - video 6 minutes

 

You have done remarkably well getting off the number of drugs you were on for many years. But now your recovery has most likely shifted into the phase of delayed withdrawal and what worked to help you come off the drugs may actually work against you now. So I would not add in new drugs and I'd come off the supplements (except for magnesium and Omega 3) and really start nurturing your nervous system. 

 

For those of us who went on these drugs as children or teenagers, it's important that we learn these non-drug coping skills in order to function well off the drugs. These non-drug techniques help with withdrawal and are skills we need to handle stress as we live drug-free for the first time as adults. 

apologies for interrupting your thread DJ ,hi shep ,I need to say that you are so correct shep ,there's a reason we want off drugs and that means all drugs ,of course we want relief but we need to read extensively about what's going on with our body's ,that means stop watching the TV or anything else that is pointless to recovery  ,this has to be all our energy.

sorry DJ your suffering so much with insomnia ,you say you run a business ,your under serious stress ,please read up on everything to cope with stress and relief .maybe offload work or take some one on .

 

we need to push through that fear barrier with our symptoms ,do you listen to James's podcast ,I highly recommend it ,its brilliant ,its giving me the strength to push through some serious nasty symptoms ,listening to the great guests on it .

good on you for being sober ,I'm also sober 2.5 years and dam proud of it .

the mods are extremely clued in DJ ,if we have bad anxiety ,that first thought of a symptom automatically triggers a panic response ,we need to push through that and sit with it .I personally don't think anything can change for us until we change what our coping skills are and for me its not drugs ,just look at the mess we are all in because of them .the positive in your troubles ,look what you can save your kids from ,doctors and big pharma's lies about drugs .

Total respect to you DJ keep up the fight .

PB

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bubble
On ‎29‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 0:15 AM, scallywag said:

dj2010 -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)

 

You've discontinued 4 psychoactive medications over the last year. That's a great deal of change for your brain and CNS (central nervous system) to adapt to over a very short period of time.  Your CNS made many adaptations to the presence of each drug. When the dose is decreased or the drug is discontinued altogether, the CNS has to undo all the changes made to adapt to the drug's presence. Your experience is very common -- the vast majority of doctors do not understand the likelihood of symptoms nor the intensity and the duration of the suffering caused by short taper periods.

 

To understand more about your CNS and withdrawal symptoms, it may help to read content at the following links:

What is withdrawal syndrome.

How your brain responds to psychiatric drugs - aka "Brain remodeling"

Youtube video, 4 minutes: Healing from antidepressants

 

Your efforts to continue healthy habits - exercise and good food -- are commendable. Although important factors in recovery, they are unlikely to be sufficient to ease your withdrawal/discontinuation symptoms.

 

Many people find at least some relief from symptoms through the reinstatement of a very small dose of medication, usually much smaller than the last dose taken.  To educate yourself about reinstatement, please read

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms -- The first post is the most important content. optional: read the entire discussion at your leisure.

 

In order to give the best information for your situation, would you summarize your history in a signature -- drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

 

  • Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
  • Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
  • Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
  • Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
  • A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs.
  • Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.
     

 

 

Discussion topics about symptoms you've mentioned:

Brain fog; blank mind; comprehension, cognitive and memory problems.

Tips to help sleep.

Exploding head syndrome or withdrawal?

 

This is YOUR introduction topic -- the place for you to ask questions, record symptoms, share your progress, and connect with other members of the SA community.

 

Please take a few minutes to create your signature.  Let us know how you're doing and ask any questions that you have.

 

 

Did you read all the links that were posted to you when you first came?

 

They should explain things for you.

 

Since you were on the drugs for a long time, 15 years and you taper was fast, I would seriously consider reinstatement. Withdrawal symptoms are delayed because the brain is trying very hard to keep functioning. In the sam way he Twins didn't collapse immediatelz after being hit.

 

But unfortunately after such a long time of drug the brain has little chance of not collapsing. Fractured sleep is the first sign of big struggle your brain is under. This sounds scary but I must say it because we are seeing it so very often that things get (a lot) worse before they get any better and this can last for years.

 

The more you wait the more you risk missing the window of opportunity for reinstatement to work.

 

We are not a site for drug shopping and recommending drugs to deal with withdrawal. If you want to go that route you will have to seek support elsewhere.

 

The only known way to stop withdrawal symptoms is to reinstate a small amount of the drug and try to stabilize.

 

People who were on drugs for a shorter period of time, or on only one drug and are prepared to make serious life adjustments to cope with debilitating symptoms may be able to tough it out. But I wouldn't advise that route for somebody with your drug history.

 

You are of course free to do and you will do whatever you want but this is my honest opinion after following many people here and my own experience.

 

Here is more information on delayed onset of WD which is your case:

 

 

 

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dj2010

Thanks for your replies, the advice you have given Shep looks solid and I am cutting out matcha green tea and mucuna completely now from today, also the high intensity training,

 

Yes I read the links but must of missed about the delayed withdrawal which must be what is happening, I thought to myself many times after quitting my meds that this is all too good to be true that I was feeling so good, 

 

I am now very scared reading that this could get a lot worse and last for years so I am going to take all Sheps advice and going to give this another week or 2 to see if anything improves, if it doesn't then i will look at reinstating a ultra small dose of venlafaxine,

 

Thank you for all the links, I am going to have a look through them all now and gather as much info as possible,

 

The drug companies should be forced to find and teach safe and effective ways to get off any drugs they put out there

 

Thank you shep, PB and Bubble for this support

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powerback
6 minutes ago, dj2010 said:

Thanks for your replies, the advice you have given Shep looks solid and I am cutting out matcha green tea and mucuna completely now from today, also the high intensity training,

 

Yes I read the links but must of missed about the delayed withdrawal which must be what is happening, I thought to myself many times after quitting my meds that this is all too good to be true that I was feeling so good, 

 

I am now very scared reading that this could get a lot worse and last for years so I am going to take all Sheps advice and going to give this another week or 2 to see if anything improves, if it doesn't then i will look at reinstating a ultra small dose of venlafaxine,

 

Thank you for all the links, I am going to have a look through them all now and gather as much info as possible,

 

The drug companies should be forced to find and teach safe and effective ways to get off any drugs they put out there

 

Thank you shep, PB and Bubble for this support

your more than welcome DJ .every time I get extremely scared about my withdrawl and the scary future I take deep breaths and mindful of the thought and it snaps me out of it ,change the channel in your brain ,takes loads of practice and recommend on this site .

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Shep
1 hour ago, dj2010 said:

Thanks for your replies, the advice you have given Shep looks solid and I am cutting out matcha green tea and mucuna completely now from today, also the high intensity training,

 

Yes I read the links but must of missed about the delayed withdrawal which must be what is happening, I thought to myself many times after quitting my meds that this is all too good to be true that I was feeling so good, 

 

I am now very scared reading that this could get a lot worse and last for years so I am going to take all Sheps advice and going to give this another week or 2 to see if anything improves, if it doesn't then i will look at reinstating a ultra small dose of venlafaxine,

 

 

This is a good game plan, dj.

 

One suggestion - instead of going cold turkey on the matcha green tea and mucuna, you may want to do a very rapid taper at a 25% rate over the next few days to a week. It won't be as abrupt a drop as a cold turkey and may not rattle your nervous system as much. I'm hoping you see some improvements with sleep. 

 

I know this sounds very scary, but the more you can do to nurture your nervous system, the easier the journey will be.

 

Please keep updating. 

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dj2010

Just updating, since my last post on Thursday and after taking Sheps advice my sleep has improved massively, I have slept each night for at least 7 hours without any sleep aids, I still awake to go to the toilet mid night but am managing to get back to sleep quite quickly, 

 

I have completely stopped using matcha green tea and mucuna pruriens and have stopped the high intensity training,

 

I started using magnesium citrate which I take a few hours before bed, also started taking fish oils again, been taking probiotics in the morning, I am still using turmeric capsules,

 

Instead of drinking matcha green tea in the mornings I have been drinking warm water with half a lemon sqeezed in with a spoonful of honey and a dash of apple cider vinegar,

 

At night before bed I have been taking a hot bath with epsom and himalayan salt in, 

 

The only exercise I have been doing is walking and swimming,

 

If Shep or anyone can suggest what other exercises you think I can do that would be great, I would like to do weight training but wont if it risks affecting my nervous system, would jogging be ok?

 

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Shep
On 7/17/2017 at 1:35 AM, dj2010 said:

The only exercise I have been doing is walking and swimming,

 

If Shep or anyone can suggest what other exercises you think I can do that would be great, I would like to do weight training but wont if it risks affecting my nervous system, would jogging be ok?

 

This is an amazing update, DJ. I'm so glad that removing the mucuna and matcha tea helped. Please update your signature to reflect these recent changes:

 

Account Settings - signature

 

You may want to try yoga, as that can lower cortisol. The below link is to a website by a member of SA who writes a lot about exercise and nutrition during withdrawal. This is the section on yoga, but you may find other useful information on the site:

 

Beyond Meds - yoga

 

If weight training doesn't ramp up symptoms, then that may be a good exercise for you. Just go slow and pay attention to your mind and body. The same with jogging. 

 

Because our symptoms and our ability to handle symptoms can change over time, if you do have increased symptoms, don't automatically assume it's withdrawal. It may be your nervous system adjusting during withdrawal and you may need to decrease your exercise intensity at some point to give your nervous system the time and space to recover more fully. 

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dj2010

thanks for your reply Shep, last night was not a very good one, as i was falling asleep about 9.30 I got sudden shock/jerk throughout my whole body and woke, I could not get back to sleep again until around 12pm, I slept for a few hours and woke again, I got around 4 - 5 hours broken sleep in total,

 

this morning when I woke up until about a hour ago I have had a hungover feeling, headache and funny pressure in head, what do you think the sudden shock/jerk and hangover could be?

 

I did take more magnesium citrate than usual last night which caused some stomach discomfort, do you think this could be the reason?

 

I will look into yoga classes and will give some weights a go when next at the gym, I will update signature now,

 

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dj2010

update, last 3 nights were bad nights sleep with around 4 hours of broken sleep each night, I had to take a melatonin tablet and 10mg diazepam last night but still only got around 4 hours (not taken any sleep aids for around 10 days) brain fog has been really bad last 2 days, its not as bad today so far, was very irritable and snapping at my children all day yesterday, even had to tell them to top speaking to me as I could not process and conversation or any questions, it was almost painful trying to think,

 

not had much appetite over the last 2 weeks and I am noticeably losing weight, skinny as it is so its very annoying

 

havent had much exercise this week except bit of walking as had no time too, think mother having kids today so going to have a swim and hope that sorts me out,

 

also bought a new mattress on Wednesday which is supposed to be one of the best mattress's available but was told yesterday that it takes time to get used to a new mattress and can cause sleep problems during the first few weeks while body adjust, wish wouldn't of bothered now,

 

just about managing to function slightly at the moment but wont be able to if things get any worse,

 

on the plus side new visa rules were announced yesterday following a human rights court case which makes it easier for families with children affected so I should be able to get my wife a visa within the next 3 - 4 months,

 

sorry not contributing on any other threads I am scared of looking at them as can see how bad things can get, reading them raises my anxiety and makes me worry

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2 hours ago, dj2010 said:

update, last 3 nights were bad nights sleep with around 4 hours of broken sleep each night, I had to take a melatonin tablet and 10mg diazepam last night but still only got around 4 hours (not taken any sleep aids for around 10 days) brain fog has been really bad last 2 days, its not as bad today so far, was very irritable and snapping at my children all day yesterday, even had to tell them to top speaking to me as I could not process and conversation or any questions, it was almost painful trying to think,

 

not had much appetite over the last 2 weeks and I am noticeably losing weight, skinny as it is so its very annoying

 

havent had much exercise this week except bit of walking as had no time too, think mother having kids today so going to have a swim and hope that sorts me out,

 

also bought a new mattress on Wednesday which is supposed to be one of the best mattress's available but was told yesterday that it takes time to get used to a new mattress and can cause sleep problems during the first few weeks while body adjust, wish wouldn't of bothered now,

 

just about managing to function slightly at the moment but wont be able to if things get any worse,

 

on the plus side new visa rules were announced yesterday following a human rights court case which makes it easier for families with children affected so I should be able to get my wife a visa within the next 3 - 4 months,

 

sorry not contributing on any other threads I am scared of looking at them as can see how bad things can get, reading them raises my anxiety and makes me worry

sorry not contributing on any other threads I am scared of looking at them as can see how bad things can get, reading them raises my anxiety and makes me worry.

 

What is said here is exactly true and the correct thing to do DJ .you got to look after yourself first and take great care of yourself .

watch out for that guilt feeling also ,you can contribute when your good and healthy .

I'm in a bad way myself the last few weeks so today going  to enjoy a walk and make an effort and meet my family for dinner tonight .I have noise sensitivity but ile just put up with it .

I hope you get better sleep soon take great care

PB

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dj2010

thanks PB, i hope you have a nice walk and dinner and feel better soon,

 

 

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dj2010

insomnia and brain fog again, can anyway reassure me that I the damage is not permanent and this insomnia will not be for life, I keep reading horror stories about permanent damage from these drugs, 

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24 minutes ago, dj2010 said:

insomnia and brain fog again, can anyway reassure me that I the damage is not permanent and this insomnia will not be for life, I keep reading horror stories about permanent damage from these drugs, 

STOP reading these story's when your vulnerable .its causing havoc and panic in your system ,we should do everything to reduce panic .

I put neuroplasticity into YouTube and there's positive and encouraging videos on how our brains can/do heal .

my living arrangements are a nightmare and the other day I had to get out for a walk and I listened to this for 2 hours ,I have this brain fog and I wonder if its caused by inflammation ,maybe try the antinflamation diet . 

reading these stories = we don't know the background totally ,everything we put in our body's contribute to our recovery and our environment .

I feel for you with insomnia ,had a sleepless night last week .99% of our time needs to be research ways to help not looking at damage that has no evidence .

Take care DJ

PB

 

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dj2010

thanks PB, going to put that in youtube now and listen to some, been reasearching as much as can about how to heal from these drugs but horror stories still pop up, I am very scared and anxious today, after feeling what life is life without meds when i was feeling great for nearly 3 months I value life so much more and just want to be like that again, i thought i had beat it all, i had never even heard of delayed withdrawal, so scared

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ye it is scary DJ and the fact you register your anxious is a good thing ,when you realise some days are stronger than others there the days to pull back and not read the stories or be around stressful situations or people .the key to it is being mindful of our thoughts at all times .

when your scared and anxious do exactly what you've been doing ,come here and post ,everyone here can relate and then you feel a release and validated ,you will never get this in the wider world .its impossible .

 

withdrawl pushes us into decisions and lifestyle changes we wouldn't even think about normally .

 

must be disheartening for you when thinking you  beat it ,its not the amount of time you get knocked down but the amount you get back up ,that's the saying that comes to mind .

I'm so sensitive to triggers at the moment I limit the amount of time around loved ones ,there pain for what's happened to me sets me off into panic .

the fear and scary feelings are related to our nervous system and this takes along time to heal ,so a stressful event or what ever sets us off when we don't realise it .

I'm going to think of the next 3 to 5 years not just when off the drug .our system is for ever sensitised I reckon but in the sense of damage ,we just need to learn new  ways and tools .

learn about the nervous system and everything you can about the brain ,understanding this is a must .

 

 

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dj2010

your right in everything you say PB, your support is much appreciated,

 

just been researching the supplements I am taking and have read a few articles about how extended use of turmeric can cause insomnia,

 

I think I am going to now stop taking every supplement and see if anything improves

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4 minutes ago, dj2010 said:

your right in everything you say PB, your support is much appreciated,

 

just been researching the supplements I am taking and have read a few articles about how extended use of turmeric can cause insomnia,

 

I think I am going to now stop taking every supplement and see if anything improves

ye exactly DJ ,that's what's recommended here ,cancel one thing out and keep a diary of it all ,we can waste loads of money on supplements that do nothing .but when we are rightly desperate because of our symptoms we can waste money .the main 2 recommended here are magnesium and omega fish oil .I eat all my nutrients so I don't think I need supplements anymore  ,the last few months I've upped my healthy foods considerably .

 

that's what I mean about being pushed into understanding our body's because of withdrawl ,the sheer torture and pain of it ,a lot of changes we do to help withdrawl will keep us in good health through out our life ,don't get me wrong I like a pizza or bag of chips but mostly I give my body nutrients rather than what I fancy or crave .

I have written down on a big sheet of paper all the healthy  good foods and I keep it in view to remind me .

I read about taking turmeric with black pepper,ye its needd but it intensifies the  strength  

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dj2010

hmm, thinking back my sleep problems started shortly after I started using a different brand of stronger turmeric + piperine capsules, I pray this is the cause,

 

yes nutrition is important, I have read blueberries help heal the brain so have been eating loads of them the last few days

 

its all like one big maze, we will find our way out eventually!

 

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31 minutes ago, dj2010 said:

hmm, thinking back my sleep problems started shortly after I started using a different brand of stronger turmeric + piperine capsules, I pray this is the cause,

 

yes nutrition is important, I have read blueberries help heal the brain so have been eating loads of them the last few days

 

its all like one big maze, we will find our way out eventually!

 

ye a maze with trap doors and quick sand ;):D.the more I read ,nutrition could be everything to health ,its just so hard to break the habits sometimes .eat healthy for months and see how it changes ,ye I have blueberries with porridge every morning .

that's why keeping a journal is so highly recommended you can track your symptoms and behaviour .

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dj2010

In hell today, Wednesday I slept for over 7 hours and felt mostly ok yesterday except for no appetite and a bit weak, I have lost over 5kg over the last month now,

 

Last night I got to sleep quite quickly but woke up 2 hours later needing the toilet, I was still feeling sleepy but the negative voice inside me was saying that this is a bad time to wake and if I dont get back to sleep now then you are in for a day of hell, this set off anxiety and I couldn't get back to sleep, i ended up taking a small amount of diazepem, this calmed me but I was in a half awake half sleep mode for a few hours,

 

Feel terrible today and very weak, there is no way I will be able to drive my kids to their swimming lesson tonight,

 

I am seriously considering reinstating a very small dose of venlafaxine if things dont improve within the next few days, but I am concerned that it might be delayed withdrawals from the quitipaine, so if I reinstate venlafaxine but it is actually the queitipaine causing this then that will probably make things worse,

 

Any ideas on whats best to do? how much venlafaxine would you recommend I reinstate?

 

The only real symptom I am experiencing is insomnia, when I sleep well for a few nights my appetite returns and I feel well again

 

Is there a chance that what I am experiencing is not withdrawal but just insomnia from all the stress that I am currently under? surely if it was withdrawal there would be a lot more symptoms?

 

I have downloaded the app headspace and going to try to start meditating, hopefully this might help things,

 

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42 minutes ago, dj2010 said:

In hell today, Wednesday I slept for over 7 hours and felt mostly ok yesterday except for no appetite and a bit weak, I have lost over 5kg over the last month now,

 

Last night I got to sleep quite quickly but woke up 2 hours later needing the toilet, I was still feeling sleepy but the negative voice inside me was saying that this is a bad time to wake and if I dont get back to sleep now then you are in for a day of hell, this set off anxiety and I couldn't get back to sleep, i ended up taking a small amount of diazepem, this calmed me but I was in a half awake half sleep mode for a few hours,

 

Feel terrible today and very weak, there is no way I will be able to drive my kids to their swimming lesson tonight,

 

I am seriously considering reinstating a very small dose of venlafaxine if things dont improve within the next few days, but I am concerned that it might be delayed withdrawals from the quitipaine, so if I reinstate venlafaxine but it is actually the queitipaine causing this then that will probably make things worse,

 

Any ideas on whats best to do? how much venlafaxine would you recommend I reinstate?

 

The only real symptom I am experiencing is insomnia, when I sleep well for a few nights my appetite returns and I feel well again

 

Is there a chance that what I am experiencing is not withdrawal but just insomnia from all the stress that I am currently under? surely if it was withdrawal there would be a lot more symptoms?

 

I have downloaded the app headspace and going to try to start meditating, hopefully this might help things,

 

Ile stay away from meds advice DJ I'm far from qualified .in a bad way  myself .we will walk through hell together .on day 4 of bead number 2 out and its beyond a joke .

were do we draw the line with suffering and trying to cope and get by its nearly an  impossible decision ,its so hard for you trying  to raise kids .

how are you managing your stress ,this needs to be extremely serious and has to be tackled ,I do a walking meditation from YouTube ,I'm bad today and facing society fills me with dread today ,but I will put my shades on and earphones in and keep myself guarded as much as possible .I never feel worse after a walk .

the other day was funny ,loads of tourists were near my walk and they were so load ,my noise sensitivity was horrible :angry:.the last few weeks I've taking up putting earplugs in when really bad ,I have to believe its temporary .I've read here it does get better

 

my  knowledge of withdrawl thinks insomnia is connected to withdrawl .its all connected ,stress ,withdrawl ,the mods will help with if a reinstatement a couple of months out will solve it .

 

Put reinstatement into the search box up the top right and you will find the help and other stories .

 

we have to actively  seek out ways to manage stress no matter were it comes from .that'll be my walking entertainment later ,a good TED talk on managing and solving stress .

I know I haven't solved your pain but your not alone and believe it will change for the better . 

PB

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2 hours ago, dj2010 said:

In hell today, Wednesday I slept for over 7 hours and felt mostly ok yesterday except for no appetite and a bit weak, I have lost over 5kg over the last month now,

 

this is a positive to try focus on ,you actually got more than 7 hours sleep .

Edited by scallywag
trimmed quote to relevant portion

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dj2010

hi PB,

 

doesnt sound good, how many beads are in your capsules? I remember having to go cold turkey from venlafaxine 150mg and was extremely ill for well over a year, I moved to Thailand for 7 years and the doctor agreed to give my mum my meds and she would ship them over to me, after a year in Thailand the doctors said they could no longer give me meds because i was not in the country, I managed to get quitipaine, propanaolol and diazepem but could not get venlafaxine in Thailand, I was so ill, I had to massivley up my doses of other drugs and take loads of zanex to cope, since then I have never been able to socialise properly or have proper face to face conversations with people, actually never been the same person since, except all this was improving until my insomnia started a few weeks ago

 

Stress is difficult to deal with at mo as there is no escaping the stress I am under, currently applying for a new visa for my wife and there are literarily hundreds of documents I have to provide and any mistakes will make the visa fail, another failed visa would finish me off and my kids are really struggling without their mother so there is a lot of pressure on me to make sure all my documents are correct, been over a year now since me and kids have seen her,

 

the walking meditation sounds good, I am seriously going to give meditation a good try, I have done a few of the beginner sessions on headspace and I defo feel a bit calmer after them, I will start doing the proper sessions after my beginner sessions are done,

 

the noise sensitivity sounds bad, how do you feel when you hear load noises? does it cause anxiety?

 

Yes sleeping for over 7 hours gives me hope that I am not damaged that bad and that a full recovery is possible,

 

going for a walk myself now, thanks again for your support,

 

 

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powerback
5 minutes ago, dj2010 said:

hi PB,

 

doesnt sound good, how many beads are in your capsules? I remember having to go cold turkey from venlafaxine 150mg and was extremely ill for well over a year, I moved to Thailand for 7 years and the doctor agreed to give my mum my meds and she would ship them over to me, after a year in Thailand the doctors said they could no longer give me meds because i was not in the country, I managed to get quitipaine, propanaolol and diazepem but could not get venlafaxine in Thailand, I was so ill, I had to massivley up my doses of other drugs and take loads of zanex to cope, since then I have never been able to socialise properly or have proper face to face conversations with people, actually never been the same person since, except all this was improving until my insomnia started a few weeks ago

 

Stress is difficult to deal with at mo as there is no escaping the stress I am under, currently applying for a new visa for my wife and there are literarily hundreds of documents I have to provide and any mistakes will make the visa fail, another failed visa would finish me off and my kids are really struggling without their mother so there is a lot of pressure on me to make sure all my documents are correct, been over a year now since me and kids have seen her,

 

the walking meditation sounds good, I am seriously going to give meditation a good try, I have done a few of the beginner sessions on headspace and I defo feel a bit calmer after them, I will start doing the proper sessions after my beginner sessions are done,

 

the noise sensitivity sounds bad, how do you feel when you hear load noises? does it cause anxiety?

 

Yes sleeping for over 7 hours gives me hope that I am not damaged that bad and that a full recovery is possible,

 

going for a walk myself now, thanks again for your support,

 

 

you deserve more than support, so much for you to deal with.ive wasted years on these meds ,i fear they have created a toxic homeostasis in my system but i have to fight while i can breathe . they've left me open to horrendous depression now for years i reckon ,so ile  always be  on guard [very bad winter with depression ].

 

Last time i counted 120 beads ,but something has to give ,because I've been having issues for 2 years taking them.[protracted withdrawl ].

 

My well informed doctor told me no issue going from 75mg to 37.5 :o;):angry::wub:

 

I'm learning so much and more about myself going forward everyday ,I've only had 2 days in years that i haven't left the house [that's something ]i keep connected to people as much as my symptoms allow ,a bit like yourself ,interactions can be painful at times [almost like an autistic personality ], apologies if that offends anyone i don't mean for a direct comparison .

 

noise issue is since November 2016 [withdrawl induced breakdown] refused Zyprexa and hospital .I've had plenty of windows and good times ,but its definitely built character ,

that week working when it happened,  i picked up a power tool and couldn't stand the noise ,i knew straight away something has snapped .looking back on it i could see it slowly building up ,so that's why i want you to have a good go at managing your stress ,i thought i could push through the symptoms [saying that i did spend 8 months working long physical hours working ,all contributed to it .

Is there anyone  or place that can help with the forms ,your dealing with a lot ,reach out .even google it you never now .

Is a holiday to your wife out of the question .

its a shame warren buffet or bill gates never suffered from withdrawl ,there philanthropy would be gladly directed in the way of antidepressant withdrawl victims and fighters .

take care

PB

 

 

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scallywag

dj - you've discontinued diazepam, quetiapine, proponanolol, and venlafaxine since October 2016.  Tough withdrawal symptoms would arise for anyone who's done the same.

 

As for reinstating now more than 3 months after your last bit of venlafaxine in April 2017, please know that the result of reinstatement is unpredictable.  Have you read About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms.?

 

How were you feeling earlier this year as you discontinued quetiapine and propoanolol?

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dj2010

yes got to keep fighting PB can not let these evils drugs beat us, I am looking into using a visa agent but they are very expensive,

 

a holiday there would be impossible at the moment as its around a 14 hour flight, i could not cope with the stress of it all, I have booked a small 3 days break with the kids for the end of August but dreading it as if dont sleep then it will be a miserable time for us all,

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dj2010

thanks for your reply scallywag, I will have a good read over the reinstating posts after this post, 

 

I was feeling mostly fine after discontinuing quitiapine and proponol, after my last dose of quitiapine I would wake up at around 3am every morning, this lasted for around 6 weeks or more, my memory is very bad so i can not remember the timelines properly or all my symptoms, I remember being quite anxious after stopping proponolol, I was basically tapering from all the drugs at the same time, each time I felt stable enough I would taper some more, each time I became stable again I felt a lot better and more human 

 

please let me know what you think might be best to do, reinstating is obviously the last thing I want to do but if things carry on like this I will have to do something

 

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dj2010

after reading that thread about reinstating it does look very risky, I can not risk getting too ill as I have my children to look after and work,  totally unsure what to do, I will likely try a very small dose on Monday if nothing improves, maybe just a few mg,

 

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dj2010

there are 6 little tablets in each 75mg venlafaxine capsule, if i decide to reinstate do you think take 1/4 of one of the little tablets? that would equal 3.1mg?? or do you think take a bit more or a bit less?

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peng

I am working on my reduction of venlafaxine using the capsules with the little tabs inside, dj2010.

Rest assured, I am finding them pretty good for the purpose.  If your pill cutter is good, halves and quarters of the 12.5mg tablets will be useful to work with.

I am currently on 106.25mg venlafaxine made up of 8 and a half of the little pills.

 

What amount you should reinstate with, I will leave to the mods.

 

One thing, they, and others, including myself will worry about, is your "as required" use of the benzo, diazepam.  

I believe I am correct in that you would be best to try not to have that in your plan, at all.  It will probably confuse your nervous system a lot.

Once you get onto the venlafaxine dose that stabilises you, hopefully you will not need the valium or whatever it is.

 

By the way, I found both magnesium citrate and turmeric gave gastric upset.  Black pepper, too, perish the thought!  However, if your stomach is armour plated maybe it is not causing you to have insomnia, as it would me.

 

Best wishes & hope you get lucky!

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mammaP

If you could get some effexor capsules with the tiny beads inside it would be better.  There are around 400 tiny beads in 75mg and it can take as little as 4 beads to ease withdrawal. More than that can be too much.  I reinstated 5 beads which was too much so lowered to 4 beads and stabilised on that. Those beads can be very powerful! 

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dj2010
1 hour ago, peng said:

I am working on my reduction of venlafaxine using the capsules with the little tabs inside, dj2010.

Rest assured, I am finding them pretty good for the purpose.  If your pill cutter is good, halves and quarters of the 12.5mg tablets will be useful to work with.

I am currently on 106.25mg venlafaxine made up of 8 and a half of the little pills.

 

What amount you should reinstate with, I will leave to the mods.

 

One thing, they, and others, including myself will worry about, is your "as required" use of the benzo, diazepam.  

I believe I am correct in that you would be best to try not to have that in your plan, at all.  It will probably confuse your nervous system a lot.

Once you get onto the venlafaxine dose that stabilises you, hopefully you will not need the valium or whatever it is.

 

By the way, I found both magnesium citrate and turmeric gave gastric upset.  Black pepper, too, perish the thought!  However, if your stomach is armour plated maybe it is not causing you to have insomnia, as it would me.

 

Best wishes & hope you get lucky!

thanks for your input Peng, yes I know using the diazepem is no good and I am going to try my best to resist using them from now,

 

I have just taken a small amount of magnesium citrate now and going to try and epsom salt bath before bed,

 

good luck with your taper, take care

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dj2010
14 minutes ago, mammaP said:

If you could get some effexor capsules with the tiny beads inside it would be better.  There are around 400 tiny beads in 75mg and it can take as little as 4 beads to ease withdrawal. More than that can be too much.  I reinstated 5 beads which was too much so lowered to 4 beads and stabilised on that. Those beads can be very powerful! 

hi mammaP, I can not get the effexor capsules with little beads, I used to be on these the 1st time I was on velafaxine, I asked for these at my doctors when I last went on velafaxine as the generic ones they gave I did not find as effective as the ones 1st time around with beads, maybe the generic ones are not as strong or less effective,

 

what would you suggest I do with cutting up the little tablets? it will be difficult to get the exact does every time, is there anyway I can crush them and separate the powder or something? or just cut them up as small as i can?

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powerback
7 minutes ago, dj2010 said:

thanks for your input Peng, yes I know using the diazepem is no good and I am going to try my best to resist using them from now,

 

I have just taken a small amount of magnesium citrate now and going to try and epsom salt bath before bed,

 

good luck with your taper, take care

BE careful you don't overload on magnesium ,I'm nearly sure magnesium is in Epsom salt baths also ,when I had these baths it would stimulate me ,so maybe 2  hours before bed .

also the advice with the likes of magnesium supplements  is start a low dose  and build up.

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dj2010
2 minutes ago, powerback said:

BE careful you don't overload on magnesium ,I'm nearly sure magnesium is in Epsom salt baths also ,when I had these baths it would stimulate me ,so maybe 2  hours before bed .

also the advice with the likes of magnesium supplements  is start a low dose  and build up.

yes best i just have a hot bath without the salts in i think, my anxiety is quite high at the moment, mainly because I am worried about sleeping and now reinstating the venlafaxine, going to try some meditation soon also

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dj2010

i need to switch off from all this now today, will try update tomorrow, thanks everyone

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