Starboy17

[Starboy17]

Thanks so much ChessieCat for the most expeditious response I will increase by the  0.05, for whatever reason that didn't occur to me.  Yeah the tiny doses are doing my head in. Though in retrospect I was experiencing symptoms whilst on 2.7mg but i got impatient as i read other people's faster taper and so desperately wanted to be able to do that, but alas my body screamed no! Again can't thank you enough, i feel like a massive burden has been lifted actually. 

 

Thank God for people like you ChessieCat and for this website I wouldn't be where i am if it wasn't for good folks here providing the most sound and wise advice, Doctors i love'm, but most wouldn't know where to begin when it comes to giving advice on tapering and the scary part is that most are so darn ignorant of how these meds wreck havoc on poor people trying to stop them.  Yes 0.05 tapering is now my new method.

[Starboy17]

Hi all,

 

Hope everyone is doing well, thankfully after two days of up-dosing to 2.65 I'm feeling exceptionally better, its unfathomable how you go can from literally being almost bedridden to some semblance of normalcy within 2 days.  ChessieCat I misread your instructions as you suggested to up-dose to 2.625 , however i went up further to 2.65, would it be better  to stay on this dose or do as you suggested?

 

Thanking you in advance

[ChessieCat]

Because you have only been on the 2.65 for 2 days you could go back down to 2.625 from the next dose if you wanted to.  The decision is yours.  The fact that you are feeling improvement is a good sign.

 

My own experience with updosing:  I reduced my Pristiq from 100mg to 50mg for 3 weeks and experienced extreme cog fog.  After 3 weeks I couldn't type and being a typist for 40+ years I knew something was really wrong.  Thankfully I had joined SA a few days before and they had suggested increasing my dose.  However I was still trying to understand the situation when I got to the stage that I couldn't type.  When this happened I took extra Pristiq and about 4 hours later my foggy head was clearing and I could type again.

 

So I can understand your incredulity because I felt the same way.  It's now 2 years since I joined SA and I am down to 17mg.  It's going to take me until mid 2020 to be off completely but I'm only getting mild withdrawal symptoms and as my dose has got lower I am returning to the me I was before 25+ years taking an antidepressant so I don't mind.

 

I was suffering mild serotonin toxicity on 100mg.  When I first started tapering my aim was to get to 50mg to reduce the toxicity.  Things went so well that I have just kept going.

[Starboy17]

Hi ChessieCat,

 

I had in fact been on 2.65 for 3days, I decided to stick at that dose as its easier to then taper to 2.6 when I'm in a better position to do so.  My experience is almost identical in that when i was on higher dose my impeccable memory started to fail me which was certainly an indicator of the toxic side effects of these meds on the brain.  Since up-dosing I'm noticing improvement on many levels with less aching, a little more energy with improved mood and lessened anxiety.  I still feel cognitively somewhat slower and tire easily. The whole  5 weeks was just pure misery, I'm trying not to scare myself because its not the first time I've experienced it, in fact I'd have to say in the last 18months throughout the tapering process its probably about the 6-8th time. Tapering is complicated, unpredictable and challenging me in ways that I should be given a Medal. 

 

I recently lost a mate to cancer which obviously just adds additional complication to the mix, although as feelings are returning its bittersweet in that I'm learning to  deal with whatever emotions, accept them and grow.  Whereas prior to meds i was particularly emotionally undeveloped which is probably why i ended on them in the first place. I guess like so many of us that with the gentler and gradual reduction that we will be able to get back to or become our authentic selves without the blunting effects of medication.

 

The cog fog can be an experience that one wishes to not be repeated, i too on several occasions whilst tapering loose the ability to touch type and just generally process my thoughts, and being able to convey my thoughts succinctly.  We can do it if we just keep on keeping on

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

49 minutes ago, Starboy17 said:

Tapering is complicated, unpredictable and challenging me in ways that I should be given a Medal. 

 

I think we all deserve one.

 

49 minutes ago, Starboy17 said:

Since up-dosing I'm noticing improvement on many levels

 

That's good news.  Please remember to update your signature.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

49 minutes ago, Starboy17 said:

I recently lost a mate to cancer which obviously just adds additional complication to the mix,

 

Sorry about the loss of your mate.  Stress definitely impacts us and can cause worsening of withdrawal symptoms.

 

 

You might find these topics helpful:

 

Brass Monkey Slide

 

Micro-taper instead of 10% or 5% decreases

Rhi's "Start Small, Listen to Your Body" Taper Plan

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by ChessieCat

[Starboy17]

Thanks for the condolences and good advice ChessieCat,

 

Tonight will make it exactly one week since i up-dosed to 2.65mg, I definitely notice the improvement on many levels from last week, however I'm still not out of the woods.  I'm still aching and feel fatigued throughout most of the day, today in particular i noticed I'm aching a bit more again, although i was able to do more walking today then i have in the last 5 weeks so i factor that in.  I took 2 Ibuprofen (nurofen) tablet,  helped a little i guess. 

 

As i mentioned previously whilst on 2.7mg i was still experiencing mild symptoms but being impatient i went down by 2% to 2.6mg.  Since  up-dosing to 2.65mg I'm glad i got relief,  however I'm really missing the stability i had at 2.8mg.  Given that I've been at this lower dose for several weeks i wonder if i reinstate back to 2.7mg if it would give me greater relief and have me stabilized faster? I got one more exam for the year to do and this cog fog is making my life difficult, not to mention the aching and general low energy levels

 

As we know this stuff is damn potent and like walking a tight rope just one bad step lands you in a whole heap of trouble.   

I'm also uncertain whether that the stress of grief is hampering my progress, I'm generally ok during the day, but I'm still having dreams about him.  I did shed a couple of tears yesterday thinking bout him gone, not sure whats genuine grief or withdrawals.

[ChessieCat]

My advice would be not to increase your dose.  You are grieving as well as doing exams.  Even a person not going through withdrawal would have difficulties.

 

The effects on the CNS are cumulative so if you make too many dose changes (up, down, off and on) you may end destabilising your CNS.  Once this happens it may be difficult and sometimes impossible to get stable again.  Some members have lost their jobs, some have had to move in with relatives and some have become bed bound due to this happening.  I'm not saying this to scare you, but to let you know how serious we need to be about tapering and not to panic and take more of the drug.

 

At the moment you may not feel as good as you have in the past but you are okay considering the added stressors.  And it could get a lot worse as I mentioned above.  I noticed when I had a disagreement with someone recently that I started feeling low and another member mentioned having an argument with their spouse and their withdrawal symptoms increased.  Members have had the same thing happened when they have travelled.

 

Whilst tapering we will experience times of discomfort.  It is important to learn to sit with the discomfort and not panic and start taking more of the drug.  Learning and using non drug techniques can help us do this:

 

Acceptance

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

[Starboy17]

I kept at 2.65mg and thankfully I'm getting closer to stabilizing, I'm still fairly fatigued, low motivation, muscle aches and pains. The last few days I notice i feel more irritable, this is an unusual symptom for me as before meds i was mostly happy, this tapering process is long and arduous. Today I noticed a little lift in my mood which is a good sign that healing is taking place. Additionally i was able to do some reading and was surprised that i could also recall the content

 

 

[Kitson]

Hi Starboy,

 

I'm sorry about the loss of your friend. It's so hard losing people we care about. I've lost several friends the last few years and it can be crushing.

 

I'm glad to hear that updosing is helping you to feel better. It's amazing how such a small change in dose, up or down, affects our central nervous system.

 

How are your exams going?

[Starboy17]

Hi Kitson & ChessieCat,

 

My exams are over for the year and I feel i did ok.  The last few weeks have been challenging but i'm sure glad i'm stabilizing and the pain and discomfort has abated. 

 

I did have a Ultra Sound on my liver and it shows some moderate severe fatty liver, I must admit that I felt so upset that I came close to tears. I eat healthy for the most part so the result was a bit of a shock.   My GP is really happy for me to taper according to my symptoms and is very supportive for which i'm grateful.  I know this med isn't doing my liver any favors. I know i need to loose some weight and the Doc is referring me to a dietician to help with this.

 

I'm gonna continue with my tapering and tonight I'll be dropping to either 2.6mg or 2.5mg i'm undecided atm. The only reason i'm tapering smaller is that last time I went I feel i rushed a little as when i went from 3mg to 2.8mg the withdrawals obviously sucked but then it got better however on 2.7 i continued to have some withdrawals which were moderate at the time and in retrospect i should've held at least another week but silly me when to 2.6mg and I endured 5 weeks of debilitating withdrawals until i up-dosed 2.65mg,

 

 

How are you folks going?

[Kitson]

Hi Starboy!

 

I'm glad to hear your exams went well. Sorry to hear about your liver, hopefully it will get better with changing your diet and tapering. I'm hoping that your next tapering decrease goes well.

[Deano32]

Hi starboy17 

How are you getting on now with the tapering of mirtazipine at low doses?

As I'm also in the same boat as you am down to 3.75mg currently

 

Deano

[Starboy17]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm currently at 2.5mg and i've had the usual aches & pains but at least they're tolerable, my main issue at present is some stomach discomfort, bloating and little pains here & there, i will admit i probably should cut back to 1 cup of coffee a day as most ppl are familiar with the stimulating effects of caffeine particularly when tapering & I've read many ppl advise to reduce it whilst tapering

[Starboy17]

Hi everyone,

 

Here we are again a new year and hopefully closer to our goals of getting off medications, I've been experiencing some troubles on the lower doses seems no matter how slow i taper i experience horrendous withdrawals. After repeatedly going to see the gp reporting increase withdrawals and pain I'm now booked in to see a rheumatologist, this medication is beyond words the amount of suffering it can put us through. I was so hoping to be at 2mg but this ******* drug is damn pissing me off. I've suffered so so much these last 10 months tapering down and now i can hardly walk without significant pain. 

[Survivor1]

Hello Starboy17,

 

I saw the distress in your post and thought I'd chime in since I dropped mirt at 2.4mg (not recommended!). To many this dosage may seem benign but it is anything but.  I have had body aches 10/10 that I thought I would never recover from, but guess what, the level is now down to 4/10!  There were/are many other symptoms but overall I think (hope) I have turned the corner.

 

I know that this seems like a difficult dosage to budge from.  I would recommend a long, long hold. There was a mod, Dalsaan, who had a difficult time d/c'ing mirt, but she was able to do it in part by holding for long periods to get stability. 2.5mg is small in the grand scheme of things, and while I'm sure you would love to get off the drug, being functional is more important.

 

I wish you well.

[Starboy17]

Thanks for responding Survivor1, as of tonight I'm left with little choice but to up-dose to 2.55mg, the ongoing suffering is too much, I've literally been in chronic pain for probably near 2 months, the fatigue also not helping,  This suffering is eerily similar to what i experienced in Oct 2017 after i up-dosed to .05 after a few days i felt better.  From here on I've got very little choice but to only taper by 2% both Psychiatrists I have seen over the last decade have said, i'm sensitive, hell this whole tapering experience has taught me that. You're absolutely right I certainly need to take a page from others who have gone before me, I need to hold longer, my impatience has cost me dearly. I'm up-dosing and will hold longer as I'm due back to law school in a couple of weeks and i need to be functional. I'm not one for sitting around so i really get annoyed about feeling fatigued and achy. 

[Starboy17]

Hi all,

 

Throughout my taper of mirtazapine, remeron i experience burning in my stomach which can be quite intense at times, this is usually accompanied with bloating and not being able to eat as usual. Previously i did take Somac for a couple of days with mixed results, however i later was cautioned against using it as it comes with its own set of complications, and lets face it, withdrawals are enough to deal with already.  So is it good to use something over the counter antacid like mylanta or Gaviscon?

[ChessieCat]

There are many existing topics on SA.  I use google and include survivingantidepressants.org in my search string.

 

Searching for this survivingantidepressants.org stomach burning I found these topics: 

 

 

stomach-acidtums

 

acid-reflux

 

digestive-problems-nausea-diarrhoea-bloating-gerd

 

[peng]

I had trouble with upset/acid stomach all my life.

The PPI omeprazole seemed like a wonder drug for decades, but we are advised not to take it now, particularly if elderly, as it interferes with the absorption of things like B vitamins.

I have had success with a daily capsule of probiotic* over the last year.  (Contains "good", friendly bacteria.)

Read up about them and try one.  Hope it helps - acid stomach is not what you need on top of the other stuff you are dealing with.

Best wishes.

[HopefulOne1]

Hi Starboy,

 

I’m new to this forum and recently started Mirtazapine to help come off Lexapro because I was experiencing extreme insomnia, which I now realize was because my doctor had me come off Lexapro way too fast. I was on 7.5mg for about 3 weeks then bumped up to 15mg because 7.5mg was no longer helping me stay asleep. I’ve been on 15mg for only 2 wks now. Completely off Lexapro for 3 wks.

 

That said, reading your journey has been quite an eye opener for me and it’s very scary to think that this might be my future very soon too. Although I can’t help because my journey is just starting, I wanted to let you know that your posts certainly help others know what to look out for when it comes to the tapering process, especially at very low doses.

 

It’s disheartening to read about the pain that you and others have gone through. I hope you’re able to eventually find a % reduction that allows you to continue chipping away at your doses with minimal wd, although it definitely sounds much easier said than done. Seeing you progress forward will give the rest of us hope that we can succeed too.

 

Take care!

[Shebon]

Hi Starboy:

 

How are you faring?  I hope things have greatly improved and you feel stable and well...

 

I will start my taper in mid-June (due to travel plans) to come off 3.75 mg. of Remeron, taken since 3/13. 

 

Be well,

Shebon

[Starboy17]

Hi all,

 

Yes my journey hasn't been easy and then again i acknowledge that i'm not the only one.  Though i will say when things are bad i get that foreboding that it will be permanent, Thank God that's not the case! that's the old anxiety talking. 

 

I'm currently down to 2.45mg which i reduced to 3 weeks ago, thankfully the withdrawals have been tolerable, although i may have caught a virus and had some annoying post nasal drip, i felt i had a upper respiratory tract infection which i was given antibiotics they seem to be doing the trick.  Its winter here and I attended a cousins engagement party last week and a cousin was sick and coughed and I'm certain i caught whatever it was as i was with her most of the evening.  But I see this a just a minor blip along the journey of healing from mirtazapine/remeron.

 

Sorry i haven't responded sooner things have been rather hectic and it literally took me 2-3 months to get my bearing after rushing with my taper. 

[Starboy17]

Hi Survivors,

 

I need some tapering advice.  I've been on the dissolving tablet of mirtazapine/remeron since Feb 2017, I found it fairly easy to measure.  However I don't know whether this dissolving tablet is any easier or if its just the lower doses in general that are hard to taper. 

 

I'm seriously considering switching back to the tablet, crushing it and dissolving it in water and drawing out 2.4mg.  I haven't read anywhere that anyone using the  dissolving tablet has successfully finished their taper. I feel some anxiety because as we're all aware these things can take some time getting used to.

 

Your thoughts, suggestions and advice would be tremendously appreciated

 

Kind regards,

 

 

 

[Carmie]

Hi Starboy, 

 

How are you doing?💚

[Starboy17]

Hi ChessieCat,

 

Maybe I'm mistaken with the math, but i thought I've been tapering by 2.5%.  So from 2mg, I've been tapering to 1.95, 1.9, 1.85. 1.8, 1.75, 1.7 so on.  Currently made it to 1.6mg.  From 1.65mg to 1.6mg recently floored me.  That is a 2.5% reduction is it not?

 

How else could I do smaller drops?

[brassmonkey]

Yes, you have been doing a 2.5% taper.  It looks like your signature is way out of date, would you please list your recent taper information doses and dates so we can  get a better idea of what has been going on.

[Starboy17]

Brassmonkey

 

Given that these pesky drops of 2.5% have been pretty unforgiving should I just drop by 2% from hereon?

 

If my math is correct my next drop would be 1.56mg? I will admit this last drop frightened me more than my tapering has in a very long time.

[brassmonkey]

Really need to know what your past taper schedule has been before we can make a call on that.

[Starboy17]

Brass-monkey,

 

I updated my signature with my entire tapering history

[brassmonkey]

Thank you for the signature block. It doesn't look like your reductions have been too big or too fast.  There has been some bouncing around in dose over the past several months which could be causing some instability. 

 

I do know that the low doses of mirtazapine can cause a lot of problems for some people, especially under 2mgai. They end up having to go very slowly and take extended holds to stabilize between reductions.

 

If you would start keeping some detailed daily notes on when you take your meds and what symptoms you are feeling and post those notes here maybe we can find some sort of pattern that will shed some light.

[Starboy17]

Brassmonkey

 

I regret not getting compounding earlier in my taper as I found the sol-tab to be the reason why i languished for near a  year on it without ever stabilizing .  It kept me in constant pain with a whole host of other symptoms. Though the compounded capsules are just the lessor of the two evils and I continue to suffer overall.  

 

The only pattern to my suffering is that I ingested mirtazapine, it was abundantly clear that this med was giving me sx from the start.  Four years my life has been upended and I have endured unimaginable pain and needlessly suffered with a whole host of symptoms. I've since been diagnosed with myalgia, which is just a fancy way of saying i have chronic pain.  Prior to mirtazapine I would go on a few hours bush walking, rode my bike, loved swimming laps in our local pool and generally was active.  I'm almost 38yrs old and i literally ache in my legs and other places and generally feel like a 90yr old man with arthritis.  Can you even fathom what its like being in constant pain? even on good days I'm in pain. I believe i should be on opioids, however my GP does not want me on them due to their own unique issues.  I'm wary of taking any meds on top of this crap.

 

Nevertheless, I have since gained a more honest appraisal of psychiatry and even GP's in general, some Doctors are clueless when it comes to prescribing these pills of horrors. The pharmaceutical companies are criminal and so I'm now medication averse.

 

Due to the sedating nature of mirtazapine, just about everyone i know takes it before bed, I take mine at 11pm and I feel sleepy approx 45min to 1hr later. I try to maintain good sleep hygiene and go to bed at 12am and wake up 8:30 or 9am.  I just get symptoms randomly and the only thing I can infer is that they are brought on by mirtazapine, some foods/drinks i need to avoid during a histamine flare or if my CNS is a little more sensitive, those times i avoid caffeine.  I do however notice symptoms to be more noticeable after a cut, and generally it hits round the 8-14 day mark, though it can happen in the 3 or 4 week too. 

 

I could try to keep a diary, although i suspect it wont be helpful as it appears that withdrawals/or my pain symptoms can hit at anytime without a definitive known cause. 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Sorry for the lapse in service, Starboy.

 

What is your current daily symptom pattern? Which symptoms do you attribute to mirtazapine?

[Starboy17]

I'm not sure i could answer that question, it would be like trying to nail jelly to the wall.  I'm in pain all the time, the only difference is that it fluctuates in severity and around my body. I take paracetamol, though my Dr prescribed me panadeine forte last week it has codeine in it, i didn't take it as I'm worried about mixing it with mirtazapine as i feel I'm much more sensitive to foods, medications now than i was before mirtazapine.   How else can i manage this pain?

 

I had IBS before mirt and this medication made it 100% worse. Burning, bloating, heartburn, again this is episodic, caffeine can aggravate it so i avoid it during a flare or I only have 1 a day. is there something i'm missing with my food? as it seems very unpredictable, even foods that i previously had no issues can upset my stomach.

 

Seems as though i just inevitably suffer no matter what I do, guess we all have those dark thoughts of ending it, but I'm convinced life is too precious so that's all they are, fleeting thoughts that will not be my ending.

 

I just want a life worth living, I'm just existing atm, I'm an Arts/Law student, if I didn't have to taper mirtazapine I'd likely be further along my studies or completed. 

 

Where do i go from here? I'm thinking of getting a referral to a pain specialist as its inhumane that i should live with this pain all the time.  A pain that is definitely caused by mirtazapine.

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

What adverse effects of mirtazapine did you feel when you first started it?

 

Why do you think mirtazapine is causing the pain? You are only taking 1.6mg, correct? Has the pain decreased as you've decreased the mirtazapine dosage?

 

Do your symptoms follow any daily pattern?  Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms throughout the day. You can post 24 hours of notes at a time in this topic, in a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom or drug and dosage) on the right.

 

[Starboy17]

when i first started mirtazapine in April 2016, i was prescribed 30mg, I only took it for two days as it was like drinking 3 bottles of wine.  My local GP said i could halve it to 15mg.  The first adverse effect i noticed was my right knee felt as though it was being stabbed, it was more noticeable when walking.  Dr advised this would go away the longer i took it.  It did to some extent, however after 30min of taking my nightly dose I would see what appeared as lights flickering, despite no external stimuli doing this.  Obviously mirtazapine was causing this side effect as I had never experienced this previously.

 

I'm confident that mirtazapine is causing this pain as I had never experienced any of these pain symptoms until I took mirtazapine. 

 

I've printed out the Symptom Tracking Template. 

 

I can't definitively say that any particular symptom follows any pattern per se, other than I wake feeling groggy, some mornings are worse than others,  i usually notice that if it's bad then the pain is felt upon waking it can be, in my legs, back, or all over my body. It seems to me, to be rather unpredictable, for instance. My  Physiotherapist gave me some stretches to do. Yesterday I did the legs as per the instructions then went for a 20min walk, I've held the current dose 1.6mg since January 2020, but half-way through the 20min walk i began to feel my muscles tightening and a strong sense of fatigue.  I thought it was anxiety, the walk wasn't strenuous by any means, and in fact I had over the last week or so been able to walk up to 20-30min walks with no issue. I got home and I felt as though i could collapse, and i also noticed that tingling feeling all over my body that I've felt on many occasions, as though my body is under immense pain and all the signals in my body are misfiring.  The pain can be so overwhelming at times that it literally stops me in my tracks and can linger for days.  i can be doing fine, (the pain is bearable) then Bam! its back with a vengeance, unforgiving and overwhelms me. 

 

I listened to the below Podcast by Mad in America where a fellow Aussie, Dr Horowitz discusses his own experiences of tapering off antidepressants.  He mentioned the Surviving Antidepressants website.  I've been to so many Doctors that think they can assign a Psychiatric "label" to my experiences, or gaslight me.  I know this is mirtazapine.  I decided to see a Psychiatrist in 2017 and he said, "Greg just taper off mirtazapine" he suggested I go see a psychotherapist and if i wanted to take paroxotine.  I acknowledge I've experienced trauma in my life, but overall I feel i was dealing with it much better before I took antidepressants. I  was only prescribed Mirtazapine to treat the side effects of Propecia, which was for hair loss, i probably didn't need. After I took a generic version (propecia)  i experienced for the first time in my life, bizarre mood swings, where i could literally cry for no reason, then felt hot at night then later developed insomnia

 

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2019/03/peer-support-groups-right-official-guidelines-wrong-dr-mark-horowitz-tapering-off-antidepressants/

 

[Starboy17]

I'm still in pain, hardly any reprieve throughout the day, i try to walk as much as i can. However, this too exacerbates it. What else can I do?

 

I've been this unwell since i tapered from 1.65mg-1.6mg in January 2020.  I feel overwhelmed and demoralized, 4 years of my life gone because of this drug and even my conservative tapering is not really helping much.