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Altostrata

PSSD Post-SSRI sexual dysfunction

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Chemistry

Ill keep that in mind Alto, i know how bad my sitting posture can be. I do walk pretty much every day though for at least 20-40 minutes.

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alexjuice

I don't know if our situations will be similar even though they sound somewhat similar at this juncture. I think they will likely not be that similar actually. I think my problem is from an infection that was made worse by my toxic mold exposure. I think the role of SSRIs was indirect but important.

 

I agree with Alto about sitting at the computer. Try to walk everyday, I do this. I am also experimenting with light weight exercises but be cautious about this. And if possible use the computer less. A lot less.

 

I do think it will depend on what the lab says. Try to recheck it no matter what at least every 6 months so long as you are experiencing anything abnormal as far as size and feeling.

 

Like I said, if possible you don't want to get on exogenous hormone replacement but extremely deficient hormonal states present equal or greater risks. Try not to panic and realize you probably have some time still to figure things out, the situation could correct itself or you may discover something you are doing which is promoting the problem and be able to correct it that way. You don't have to jump ahead tonight with a major new plan. You are also very young which benefits you greatly because youth is more resilient.

 

Take good care of yourself. Eat a lot of fresh vegetables and clean meats. Drink clean water. Rest. Be around people. Go to sleep with the sun, wake early if possible. Pray and relax. This is my advice.

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Chemistry

Good advice indeed Alex, thank you for being so active.

 

Yeah i suppose our situations are not the same. I will continue to take care of myself as much as possible - i do most of what you guys suggest but theres definitely room for improvement and the computer is probably my biggest problem right now... although i do feel like "there's nothing else to do" most of the time lol.

 

I'll write back once i get more info about my blood test, i honestly hope my levels aren't too out of line, if at all. I'd rather be confused with normal T levels than to have to decide whether or not to go on hormones, but we'll cross that bridge once we get to it. Its nice to know that maybe things will improve in the meantime, that helps and i definitely hope they do - stress has made things worse so i'm trying to take control of that.

 

Thanks again for the guidance man, appreciate it.  

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Chemistry

I got a call today about the results of the blood tests i underwent last week. They didn't tell me what they were but the nurse said the results came in and that the doctor does want to see me. I have an appointment next Thursday and will keep updating. This is a bit exciting but also scary because they probably wouldn't have called if nothing came up in the tests. They checked my T levels, thyroid, CBC and a few other things. 

 

Anyway, for those who may be following this thread, just thought i'd update. My genitals and function has continued to decline slightly but not by much since last time i posted. 

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Chemistry

I just got back from my appointment, they tested for various things like thyroid, kidneys, liver, etc but ill post what concerned me the most. Ill post to the left my result and after (to the right) the referance range (the ranges might differ here im Canada):

sTSH : 2.10mU/L --- 0.35 - 4.2 mU/L
Testosterone : 21.2 nmol/L --- 9.5 - 30.0 nmol/L
Sex Hormone B Glob? : 34.0 nmol --- 11.0 - 50.0 nmol/L
Testo, Bioavailable (free T?) : 10.9 --- 4.8 - 14.0 nmol/L

Im sort of in the middle of each range of referance... Im not sure if my T levels are actually low considering im only turning 18. Unfortunately i didnt get a chance to request to see a urologist. Although i feel maybe he wouldnt have referred me, he didnt seem to find any reason to be concerned that my testicles have shrunk, as if shrunken testicles are no big deal or something. He was problably just concerned i was taking drugs, which im not. However, my mum and I decided that if things dont get better or continue to get worse that we'll just go back and ask to see a urologist or something. But at the same time its like, if my levels aren't too bad then maybe going the natural route and giving this time is the best way to go at this point. 

Alex, i hope you can give me some advice here on what i should do next. Is this all just PSSD? I feel like i have PFS except ive never taken procepia before, but thats how severe its getting for me. I hate this.

 

PS. Alex, it says you can't receive any new messages.

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alexjuice

Chem,

Those numbers are fine to me. I had good numbers for a long while too so the shrinkage is more important than the numbers themsevles. But this means you have some time since the bottom won't drop out overnight.

 

I don't really think this is from taking psychiatric drugs, not directly though everything plays a part. If I were you, I'd keep an eye on the situatoin, retest in 6 months for sure. My case is so-called autoimmune endocrine disease meaning I have antibodies against the testes that are measurable. You need a specific test to evaluate autoimmune antibodies and medicine doesn't exactly have a good grip on these conditions, believe me. Ask for the antibody test though if testes continue to get smaller b/c at least you will be taken seriously by the physicians if you show a cause that makes sense to them.

 

I don't know why I can't receive a PM. I will erase some old messages bc maybe my box is too full.

 

Last bit, try to notice if any foods are making your testes smaller. If your condition is the same as mine then trigger foods such as soy, gluten and milk, possibly coffee, nuts also will cause a noticeable worsening. Try to make note of if any foods contribute.

 

Final bit, I think my testicular atrophy is rare animal and I guess that you are not suffering from the same exact issue. Odds say anyway. But stay on top of it, you'll likely be fine in the long run.

 

Alex

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Chemistry

Hey thanks Alex. I appreciate you writing back. 

 

This was actually pretty encouraging, since although having Low T would explain a lot of my new symptoms (low libido, less sensitivity, penile shrinkage, etc) In a way, having low T would have been complicated and stressful in itself. I will not ignore these new symptoms though, but i am happy knowing that time and lifestyle changes in the mean time may very well be beneficial.  I'd like to believe that this probably has nothing to do with these medications but in a way i feel like theres no way its not lol. Do you think theres anyway this has anything to do with PSSD? I know some people report the 3 symptoms i just mentioned. this idea does scare me since so far everything has just been worsening and well, we all know the truth about some PSSD sufferers ... I dont want to live like this forever you know. I'm going on 18 months out, since 3 months out it feels like everything has just been slowwwly worsening with some temporary improvements or changes in between. Most of the worsening has happened in the past several months. What are the chances of things improving in the next  6 months (before i had 2 years)... Even just a window would be amazing. 

Anyway sorry, i know nobody can answer that.. I'm just worried for my sexual functioning. Although when i'm excited enough i can get an erection without manual stimulation, the erection itself just doesn't last and is not as big or solid as it used to be (shrinkage). I do hate this but i'm hoping one day things go back to normal despite how many symptoms of PSSD i have at the moment, testicular shrinkage, probably not one of them. Its just so weird because i went from mild/moderate PSSD to pretty severe? I think i've written about that before. I keep hoping these are signs of healing but maybe thats just wishful thinking.  

 

Perhaps this is all W/D and not necessarily all PSSD.

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alexjuice

Hey thanks Alex. I appreciate you writing back. 

 

This was actually pretty encouraging, since although having Low T would explain a lot of my new symptoms (low libido, less sensitivity, penile shrinkage, etc) In a way, having low T would have been complicated and stressful in itself. I will not ignore these new symptoms though, but i am happy knowing that time and lifestyle changes in the mean time may very well be beneficial.  I'd like to believe that this probably has nothing to do with these medications but in a way i feel like theres no way its not lol. Do you think theres anyway this has anything to do with PSSD? I know some people report the 3 symptoms i just mentioned. this idea does scare me since so far everything has just been worsening and well, we all know the truth about some PSSD sufferers ... I dont want to live like this forever you know. I'm going on 18 months out, since 3 months out it feels like everything has just been slowwwly worsening with some temporary improvements or changes in between. Most of the worsening has happened in the past several months. What are the chances of things improving in the next  6 months (before i had 2 years)... Even just a window would be amazing. 

 

Anyway sorry, i know nobody can answer that.. I'm just worried for my sexual functioning. Although when i'm excited enough i can get an erection without manual stimulation, the erection itself just doesn't last and is not as big or solid as it used to be (shrinkage). I do hate this but i'm hoping one day things go back to normal despite how many symptoms of PSSD i have at the moment, testicular shrinkage, probably not one of them. Its just so weird because i went from mild/moderate PSSD to pretty severe? I think i've written about that before. I keep hoping these are signs of healing but maybe thats just wishful thinking.  

 

Perhaps this is all W/D and not necessarily all PSSD.

 

You are right to be concerned. Don't ignore the issue, which you are not.

 

I can't say what is the cause. Could it be directly from Rx drugs? I don't know. The PSSD treatments are unlikely to harm you, so that's a good place to start. The shrinkage is horrible and scary, believe me. I do think for sure you will be able to recover. It may take some time though. So stay patient and don't do anything really rash.

 

You can also write me a PM if you want to reach me, I should be able to receive them now.

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zenzeno
I hate to beat a dead horse, but after withstanding a year of PSSD including ejaculatory anhedonia and genital anesthesia; shouldn't I at least give Wellbutrin a try?

 

So far, diet, exercise, supplements and time have proven ineffective and I've seen so many people online talk about how Wellbutrin cured them of their PSSD.

 

:unsure:

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

I don't think you will get much support for that here. Have you read our topic on PSSD?

 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/52-post-ssri-sexual-dysfunction-pssd/?hl=pssdhttp://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/52-post-ssri-sexual-dysfunction-pssd/?hl=pssd

 

Several members have posts their struggles with that in Symptoms and Self Care too.

 

My experience with AD's of any flavor is that they CAUSE genital anesthesia and related problems. I would question those so-called 'success stories.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

I found your topic here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3338-zenzeno-seeking-advice-on-severe-citalopram-celexa-withdrawal/#entry41235

 

Not sure if you couldn't find it but it may be helpful for you to post an update in it. (You can bookmark it for easy reference). For instance, are still tapering? And it may also help you to get more discussion about your PSSD.

 

Were you thinking of ADDING welbutrin or switching to it?

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Altostrata

zenzeno, there is a Yahoo discussion group for PSSD. You might want to discuss your idea there.

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btdt

I think you will find there are a  lot of people who have been drugged as long as I as we could not get off many you can find on other sites now poly drugged sad to see.  It was 18  years off and on not 20 and yes those 2 years matter to me.  

I think when it comes to sex a slight recovery is still not recovery wonder what that even means you can feel not numb anymore maybe but can't feel well enough to have any sexual pleasure to me that is still no better.  

I read this again today and want to add this 

I think those who were drugged a long time are plentiful ...what is in short supply perhaps or seemingly on withdrawal sites are people who were drugged this long and got off the drugs and post... 

 

one reason may be we were on drugs before computers were common and maybe most of us are not using computers much even now.  Can't ignore the fact that without having any decent information on the drugs withdrawal ect... as was also my generation plight we are more likely to have given up when thing got rough and caved to the polydrugging hands of our doctors... add all that up and the odds are against us. 

I should feel lucky or blessed to have made it out ... for some reason I am not feeling it. Not today. Today I am just angry for all the others who did not make it. 

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Furiated

This is a quote from my other thread which you can read here:
 

Hello guys and girls. I didn't sign in for some time because I felt like I couldn't be updating with every little detail.

I am now at 7 mg and taking away 0.5 a day. Needless to say, my PSSD is CURED. Yes. Cured.

And along with it, everything else. My emotional numbness, my constant withdrawal like symptoms and everything bad.

I wanna thank altostrata for the post she made about the withdrawal.

In conclusion, my theory is that PSSD is nothing more than withdrawal which is caused by the sudden stopping of the med and the brain goes into "panic" mode as its neurotransmitters have been messed up by the sudden stoppid. That's just my theory though.


Considering how little success stories there are online, (I have only read 2 tbh) this should give hope to people.

Remember, if you are seeing postivie changes, even minor ones, chances are the brain is not "damaged".


I'm making this into another thread so it can appear up on search engines and give hope to other sufferers.

 

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Rachelle

Hey all. New here. Since coming off Lexapro (after being on from Mid 2007 to March 2010) I have experience a slow decline in my sexual function which platuead in about Febuary. Generally speaking I feel unaware of my penis and sexual realm. I feel that has something to do with the pudendal nerve. Even when I can achieve an erection it is mostly numb. I cannot get visually aroused 98% of the time, and would be unable to have sex or feel intimacy at this point. This after enjoying 2 very good sexual relationships while on Lexapro. Keep in mind that the sex declined as the years went on on Lexapro. And I am only 23! Interestingly enough, the only facet of my sexual function that is somewhat intact is the actual orgasm which still feels really good. Anyway. I have been over to the YAHOO PSSD group and seen the despair over there. It sounds like this is a permanent deal, although I have had many people try to convince me otherwise. Any success stories out there>

I have the same problem, even though I am female. Wondering, and hoping, did it get any better?

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zenzeno
The Yahoo SSRIsex group is rather cumbersome to navigate.

 

Aren't dopamine agonists able to somewhat reverse PSSD?

 

"Dopamine agonists have been shown to facilitate the sexual reflex. In the brain there are a series of sexually inhibitory and sexually excitatory neurotransmitters. The sexual inhibitory neurotransmitters are serotonin and another one is prolactin. The ones that are sexual facilitators are dopamine, oxytocin and norepinephrine.

 

So strategies that raise the facilitators would allow somebody who had a low interest, low orgasm, low lubrication to improve that status."

 

Source:

 

Dr. Goldstein, How Does Dopamine Fit In With Pharmacology?


 


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Altostrata

The sexual nervous system is not walled off from the general nervous system. You are contemplating throwing yet another drug into a dysregulated nervous system. Anything can happen, including getting a lot worse.

 

I think people on SSRIsex have been experimenting with various drugs for years. Why not post there asking if dopamine agonists have been found to be effective?

 

To my knowledge, no one there has found something that works consistently. But maybe I'm wrong, I can't keep up with it all the time.

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btdt

 

The Yahoo SSRIsex group is rather cumbersome to navigate.
 
Aren't dopamine agonists able to somewhat reverse PSSD?
 
"Dopamine agonists have been shown to facilitate the sexual reflex. In the brain there are a series of sexually inhibitory and sexually excitatory neurotransmitters. The sexual inhibitory neurotransmitters are serotonin and another one is prolactin. The ones that are sexual facilitators are dopamine, oxytocin and norepinephrine.
 
So strategies that raise the facilitators would allow somebody who had a low interest, low orgasm, low lubrication to improve that status."
 
Source:
 
Dr. Goldstein, How Does Dopamine Fit In With Pharmacology?
 

 

I found that site IMPOSSIBLE to navigate... useless actually I posted one time and then could never find the post and could not get back in tho I had saved all the information. I wonder how many people they would have there is the site actually worked.  

I don't think it is as easy as they think ... way more complicated than suggested.  I don't know anyone who has been able to use a drug to fix this those who have improved say it was time... that healed them and their own brains and bodies... sadly I have not been one of the lucky ones who have had recovery to the point of being able to complete the sex act.  I have been off all psych drugs since 2007. 

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Chemistry

Btdt, you were on meds for 18 years correct? And you say you've improved a little bit in your PSSD? Do you think given more time things may continue to improve? 

 

Because if they do, i think you'd be very good evidence that time can heal just about anyone affected by these pills, "time" meaning years sometimes. If you ever recover even 50-70%, i think that would give a lot of hope to any suffer of PSSD.

 

 

  I don't know anyone who has been able to use a drug to fix this those who have improved say it was time... that healed them and their own brains and bodies... sadly I have not been one of the lucky ones who have had recovery to the point of being able to complete the sex act.  I have been off all psych drugs since 2007. 

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btdt

 

Btdt, you were on meds for 18 years correct? And you say you've improved a little bit in your PSSD? Do you think given more time things may continue to improve? 

 

Because if they do, i think you'd be very good evidence that time can heal just about anyone affected by these pills, "time" meaning years sometimes. If you ever recover even 50-70%, i think that would give a lot of hope to any suffer of PSSD.

 

 

  I don't know anyone who has been able to use a drug to fix this those who have improved say it was time... that healed them and their own brains and bodies... sadly I have not been one of the lucky ones who have had recovery to the point of being able to complete the sex act.  I have been off all psych drugs since 2007. 

 

Yep I was on drugs a long time too long anyone can read my history below. 

"If you ever recover even 50-70%, i think that would give a lot of hope to any suffer of PSSD."

About your comment above.  50 - 70% recovery in how a human being can experience sexual contact ... sexual self actualization... is not the same as 50 - 70% recovery in any other area. for instance if I were to have recovery of 50% in brain zaps that would mean I have them half the time I had them or that the intensity has diminished. That is important and something that has some real life value.  Or 50% recovery in dizziness means I can stand up and manage my body well enough to walk around and drive a car that too has some real life value.  I don't understand how you are qualifying this to relate to sexual healing as this type of apples and oranges comparing does not work with sex or the sexual experience.  Or maybe I should say it does not work for me... yes being less numb in the sexual areas of my body is hopeful that more healing of the sexual system may come in time ... it has been a very long time already... I have not had a gratifying sexual experience since July 10 2006 that is a couple wks short of 8 years.  I can't say that experience was actually fully gratifying as the affects of the drugs were affecting me sexually even then and I can recall the date so well as it is my partners at the times birthday... Yes I was down to having sex only when I had too it was not to gratify me but for him.  So you see where I am coming from.  I believe I was in tolerance then. I has likely been closer to 10 years since I have had a fully satisfying sexual experience.  One where I had an urge to have sex without any birthday or other outside related reasons to have it other than I wanted it.  I had desire for sex the natural and normally understood natural desire way.

 

There are a lot of things that go into a satisfying sexual experience and I am grateful to have had plenty of good and satisfying sex in my life had I not had it I would not know what I am missing and for some that may be part of the issue they don't know what they are missing because they did not get to experience sex without these drug in their system as they were given the drugs in their childhood.  To me this is a very sad state of affairs I am sure you would agree if you have had good sex ever in your life and then it is taken off you list of things to do.  I am sure anyone who has a decent sex life takes it for granted I know I did... but tell them your taking it away and watch all hell break loose.  It is a very big part of being human of being alive of expressing yourself of showing love ect it is a very big part of life. I am hoping your not one of the people put on drugs in childhood and that you have had a chance to have experiences and understand what I am saying.... as sex is difficult to describe in all it's glory... to a person who has not had it... I don't want that job I am not an artist or poet.  I would like to say hooray I am healed but it is not true and 50% recovery in the sexual area of my being is not the same as 50% healing in any other area of this withdrawal process.  While I would like to bring hope to the others in this with me I will not lie about it... what good would that do none that I can see.  Yes it feels better to walk around in pants with my genitals alive rather than dead... I can feel myself touch a chair now I could not before... I can maybe sometimes stimulate myself to some sexual feeling which ends in severe orgasm headache pain.. why would I want to... this is not SEX this is a science experiment that I can try and then write about on a site like this .... it has not one thing to do with the sexual experience as I know it to be... What I have now is a deformed cousin of what I use to know as sex... this is a limping struggling bit of myself I carry around and try to nurture ... a beloved cousin who has had a crash and I am caring for in hope of recovery... but this NOT sex... NOT as I know it. 

Sorry for the messed up type the forum went wonko when I started this and stayed that way for the entire post I hope some body can get it fixed. I wonder if I will be unable to post this ... we will see...

 

Peace know I wish you all well in this healing experiment but I do not have it in my to lie toyou ... I will tell the truth as long as I can talk you can count on that... with all I have lost I choose truth.........so many things I can no longer choose ..... I have this one thing left I will keep it ... I will tell the truth as I see it.

   

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zenzeno

If dopamine agonists are out of the question, are there any dopaminergic supplements worth trying?

 

For instance, would trying Curcumin, Quercetin or Tyrosine be of any benefit, or would they do more harm than good?

 

I suspect my root problem is Adult ADHD and comorbid depression.

 

It sure would be nice if raising dopamine could relieve both my ADHD and PSSD.

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Hopefull

Hi to everyone,

 

I am just wondering why it takes years to recover after you take an antidepressant? I know everyone is different. Does it matter if you have taken AD'S for 6 months or couple of years? I really don't understand why AD'S are labelled as non-addictive, when clearly they are. And why a doctor would tell you to quit cold turkey????????? I run out of medicine for 3 days and I started experiencing withdrawal symptoms. Sometimes I wish I never took AD'S.

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anacleta

hi btdt,

can i ask in how many months or years after ssri suspension you recovered 50-70% from pssd?

thanks

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elbillingino

A few months ago I experienced a couple of hangover days when my symptoms seemed to improve by about 70-80% only to dip back to baseline when the hangover subsided. (Nothing to be proud of, but it I didn't drink, I'd have no social life) It was absolutely amazing. The first time it happened, I didn't connect it with the hangover and thought I'd been cured overnight. I've since learned that 'hangover horn' is quite common (I don't really remember experiencing it with pre SSRI hangovers so had absolutely no idea!)

 

I've had a couple of hangovers since then, but the 'hangover horn' hasn't repeated itself.

 

I'm wondering if anyone else with PSSD has experienced this apparently commonplace phenomenon?

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Altostrata

Hmmm, interesting.

 

zenzeno, we don't know of anything that works reliably. If we did, we'd be happy to encourage people to try it!

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Altostrata

Thank you, anacleta. It always helps to quote part of an article, to stimulate interest and discussion. (What is the Netherlands Pharmacovigilance Centre? Is it a government organization? What does "Lareb" mean?)
 
From the article:
1.1.    SSRIs and persistent sexual dysfunction
 
Introduction
The serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) are indicated for the treatment of major depressive disorder, social anxiety disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, and posttraumatic stress disorder [1- 7]. SSRIs available on the Dutch market are citalopram (Cipramil®), escitalopram (Lexapro®), fluoxetine (Prozac®), fluvoxamine (Fevarin®), paroxetine (Seroxat®), and sertraline (Zoloft®). Venlafaxine (Efexor®) in a dosage less than 150 mg is also considered an SSRI [8].
 
Sexual dysfunction is a known side effect of SSRI treatment. SSRIs are associated with decreased libido, erectile dysfunction, ejaculatory disturbances, delayed orgasm and anorgasmia [1-7]. These dysfunctions typically endure for as long as the medication is taken and it has generally been assumed that these effects would resolve upon discontinuation of treatment. However, there is emerging evidence that in some individuals sexual dysfunction is persistent after cessation of SSRIs.
 
Reports
On February 22nd 2012, the database of the Netherlands Pharmacovigilance Centre Lareb contained 19 reports of persistent sexual dysfunction in patients who had used SSRIs in the past.
 
Most cases were reported by consumers (n=15). The other reports were from general practitioners, a pharmacist and a pharmaceutical company. Reports were received for various SSRIs: paroxetine (n=5), sertraline (n=4), venlafaxine (n=4), citalopram (n=4), fluoxetine (n=2), fluvoxamine (n=1) and escitalopram (n=1).
 
Reported adverse drug reactions were delayed ejaculation (n=2), ejaculation disorder (n=2), decreased libido (n=5), impotence (n=1), sexual dysfunction NOS (n=7), erectile dysfunction (n=3) and female orgasmic disorder (n=1). Thirteen reports concerned males and six reports females. The median age was 30 years and ranged from 20 to 59 years.
 
Latencies ranged from days to years, however in most cases patients experienced sexual dysfunction after days of SSRI use. Duration of treatment with SSRIs was a few months to two years in most cases (range 9 days – 10 years). SSRIs were withdrawn in all patients. The time since withdrawal of the SSRI and still having sexual dysfunction varied from two months to two years.
 
In most cases no concomitant medication was reported (n=16). In the remaining cases (n=3) reported co-medication consisted of zolpidem, oxazepam, lorazepam, sildenafil and levothyroxine. The one patient that used sildenafil (for over five years) reported delayed ejaculation problems days after start of sertraline.
 
....
Discussion and conclusion
It has previously been assumed that sexual adverse drug reactions always resolve shortly after SSRI discontinuation [19]. Emerging evidence, however, suggests that in some individuals, sexual dysfunction may persist indefinitely. Lareb received 19 reports of persistent sexual dysfunction after SSRI use. Although changes in sexual desire, sexual performance, and sexual satisfaction often occur as manifestations of a psychiatric disorder, these reports suggest that they may also be a consequence of SSRI treatment. The symptoms occurred soon after start of the medication and some patients reported explicitly that relational problems or sexual function disorders were not present before start of the SSRI. Some patients also reported that the depression remained in full remission, but the sexual function disorder persisted.
 
Erectile function is known to decrease with age, but these reports concerned males with a median age of 30 years. Diabetes, vascular disease and neurologic disease can affect erectile function [21]. In the cases reported to Lareb no concomitant medication was used that indicated these types of comorbidities. There was one patient who used sildenafil for five years but he reported delayed ejaculation problems days after start of sertraline. In the literature several case reports of persistent sexual dysfunction after discontinuation of SSRI treatment have been described and the US SmPC of fluoxetine already mentions that symptoms of sexual dysfunction occasionally persist after discontinuation of fluoxetine treatment [9,17-19]. The persistent nature of the sexual dysfunction associated with SSRI treatment described in the literature as well as the reported cases by Lareb support further investigation.

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btdt

hi btdt,

can i ask in how many months or years after ssri suspension you recovered 50-70% from pssd?

thanks

I would like to be able to tell you the exact times I made posts about it when it was happening but sadly they have all been deleted on "other sites"  I do not consider myself recovered and as I tried to express in the previous post sex is not about percentages to me... never was and never will be... if a person cannot enjoy touch in a sexual way or experience an orgasm that to me is unhealed.  

Urge is another matter I sure is connected there is none. 

No sexual stimuli works books visual nothing.  Big fat zero on the very rare event where there is any kind of feeling that could be thought of as sexual it is not normal... and there is the head ache.  So not worth the pain. There is no slow build up of pleasure if it comes it is fast and not sustainable and not pleasurable.  I hope this clears that up for you.  The feeling of being completely numb like frozen by the dentist slowly went away around I think the 5 year mark.. maybe a bit sooner I can't recall exactly.  While it is nice not be completely numb it did not change sex. I do not feel my sexual self has healed 50 - 70% I feel somebody else is trying to put a number or a word in my mouth and I keep spitting it out only to have it shoved back at me... stop it or I will bite... 

It is not a percentage thing for the last time... does it make any difference to a fish if it can wag its tail fin if it can't swim...what use is a wagging tail fin to a fish....it is about swimming not wagging a fin. 

Some things were designed to be use for a specific purpose if they cannot be used as designed I think that makes them useless.  That is how it is to me...useless nonfunctional.  end of story. 

 

PS 

I wish I did not say if I can heal after all this that anyone can heal that was stupid and untrue. I take it back.

peace all

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johnson

Has anyone ever tried eating watermelon or even eating pistachios to help with PSSD?
They are supposed to improve erections or so they claim. I don't know the amount of watermelon daily that 

is supposed to be consumed to have any positive effects on PSSD. I did read that about 3 handfuls of

pistachios are supposed to be eating daily for at least three weeks before you have any positive impacts

on erections. But I think that's too many nuts to be consuming daily.

 

Also there are the supplements l-citrulline and l-arginine that are supposed to improve erections as well and or improve blood circulation.

But I don't really want to take any more supplements because they may end up causing more problems than fixing. Plus

people don't really know the long term effects of these supplements either to know how safe it really is.

 

Just wondering if anyone has tried any of the above.

 

thanks

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btdt

Water melon made me extremely ill in early withdrawal I can eat it in moderation now.  that is all I know of this.

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johnson

Has anyone ever tried eating watermelon or even eating pistachios to help with PSSD?

They are supposed to improve erections or so they claim. I don't know the amount of watermelon daily that 

is supposed to be consumed to have any positive effects on PSSD. I did read that about 3 handfuls of

pistachios are supposed to be eating daily for at least three weeks before you have any positive impacts

on erections. But I think that's too many nuts to be consuming daily.

 

Also there are the supplements l-citrulline and l-arginine that are supposed to improve erections as well and or improve blood circulation.

But I don't really want to take any more supplements because they may end up causing more problems than fixing. Plus

people don't really know the long term effects of these supplements either to know how safe it really is.

 

Just wondering if anyone has tried any of the above.

 

thanks

Nitric Oxide is another supplement as well.

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Catalyzt

I couldn't resist reviving this old thread with an update.

 

Here's the deal: My PSSD has had both peaks and valleys since I last posted here a year or two ago, and I become more and more convinced that it is not useful to think of "recovery" as a linear continuum.

 

Look, I'm a clinician, so I can't get too detailed-- my clients can probably figure out who I am if they are resourceful enough. 

 

Generally: There have been times when physical function was poor, but emotional attachment and climax was excellent/normal, times when both were excellent, times when both were poor, and times when physical function was completely normal, but the arousal disorder had kind of returned.

 

Most recently, physical response has been off by about 30%, arousal has been off by about 15%, but climax has been... er, kind of flawless.  The general trend is positive, with intense peaks and valleys.  If you could graph such a thing-- which would be an absurd and sterotypically male thing to do-- the curve would look something like the Dow Jones Industrial Average, adjusted for inflation, over the past few years.  Some really scary drops, but generally very positive, with eventual decline inevitable (hopefully, at a rate normal for my age and health.)

 

I recently stopped using drugs and alcohol completely, and during that period, I basically had an adolescent sex drive and performance.  Everything was at about 135% for a middle-aged guy.  Then that kind of wore off, and things crashed a bit.  Now they are on the upswing again.

 

I never did try the Remeron experiment.  I did take exactly three doses of Trazodone over the last 20 months or so, once for sleep, once by accident, and once again for sleep. 

 

I do not recommend this drug.  It did increase sexual response first the two times I used it in 2013, and I thought, "Hmm.  Maybe these drugs are like hallucinogens, and can be used safely once or twice a year.  I'll try it again in September of 2014 or so."

 

After doing so, I did feel like my sexual response dropped a bit.  I'm not that worried-- the effect is very subtle, and I feel confident I can overcome it.  It's like micro PSSD.  But I will not repeat this experiment-- ever.

 

Neuroadaptation?  Who knows-- but these drugs are nothing like the hallucinogens.  I did hallucinate somewhat the second time I used Trazodone, so it was a compelling idea, but of course it's utter nonsense, as I well know from even my own very limited study of psychpharmacology. 

 

This is non-medical advice posted as someone in recovery, not as a clinician.  But I would not use Traxodone/Desyrel.  I would not use Remeron.  I would not use Wellbutrin, Yohimbe Bark, Mandrake Root, or anything else.

 

One would think that a chemical problem would, of neccessity, have a chemical solution. 

 

I now think that's 180 degrees wrong.  I'm convinced the solution is interpersonal.  And I am highly motivated to continue pursuing that solution, and trying to find some kind of a template for a therapy that can be adapted to the very individualized symptoms of PSSD.  I am more convinced than ever that this is possible.

 

Wish me luck on my exam, folks.  And best of luck to everyone-- it was great reading everyone's posts, I had not checked this thread in a year or so!

 

-- Catalyzt

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greenwell3977

Hi Catalyzt,

 

Do you have any theories for why your drive and performance have been up and down and not linear?

 

Thanks.

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btdt

I couldn't resist reviving this old thread with an update.

 

Here's the deal: My PSSD has had both peaks and valleys since I last posted here a year or two ago, and I become more and more convinced that it is not useful to think of "recovery" as a linear continuum.

 

Look, I'm a clinician, so I can't get too detailed-- my clients can probably figure out who I am if they are resourceful enough. 

 

Generally: There have been times when physical function was poor, but emotional attachment and climax was excellent/normal, times when both were excellent, times when both were poor, and times when physical function was completely normal, but the arousal disorder had kind of returned.

 

Most recently, physical response has been off by about 30%, arousal has been off by about 15%, but climax has been... er, kind of flawless.  The general trend is positive, with intense peaks and valleys.  If you could graph such a thing-- which would be an absurd and sterotypically male thing to do-- the curve would look something like the Dow Jones Industrial Average, adjusted for inflation, over the past few years.  Some really scary drops, but generally very positive, with eventual decline inevitable (hopefully, at a rate normal for my age and health.)

 

I recently stopped using drugs and alcohol completely, and during that period, I basically had an adolescent sex drive and performance.  Everything was at about 135% for a middle-aged guy.  Then that kind of wore off, and things crashed a bit.  Now they are on the upswing again.

 

I never did try the Remeron experiment.  I did take exactly three doses of Trazodone over the last 20 months or so, once for sleep, once by accident, and once again for sleep. 

 

I do not recommend this drug.  It did increase sexual response first the two times I used it in 2013, and I thought, "Hmm.  Maybe these drugs are like hallucinogens, and can be used safely once or twice a year.  I'll try it again in September of 2014 or so."

 

After doing so, I did feel like my sexual response dropped a bit.  I'm not that worried-- the effect is very subtle, and I feel confident I can overcome it.  It's like micro PSSD.  But I will not repeat this experiment-- ever.

 

Neuroadaptation?  Who knows-- but these drugs are nothing like the hallucinogens.  I did hallucinate somewhat the second time I used Trazodone, so it was a compelling idea, but of course it's utter nonsense, as I well know from even my own very limited study of psychpharmacology. 

 

This is non-medical advice posted as someone in recovery, not as a clinician.  But I would not use Traxodone/Desyrel.  I would not use Remeron.  I would not use Wellbutrin, Yohimbe Bark, Mandrake Root, or anything else.

 

One would think that a chemical problem would, of neccessity, have a chemical solution. 

 

I now think that's 180 degrees wrong.  I'm convinced the solution is interpersonal.  And I am highly motivated to continue pursuing that solution, and trying to find some kind of a template for a therapy that can be adapted to the very individualized symptoms of PSSD.  I am more convinced than ever that this is possible.

 

Wish me luck on my exam, folks.  And best of luck to everyone-- it was great reading everyone's posts, I had not checked this thread in a year or so!

 

-- Catalyzt

I would not be surprised if the trazadone did not set you back even it if appeared to have a benefit to start with.  I found this with antihistamines in withdrawal when I would use a tiny amount for sleep... it would work sure but it also felt like it sent me back a couple stages in my withdrawal.  There is a term for this I just can't think of it as I am having really hard time with words this day.  Maybe it rebound affect not sure it is just gone from my head I know I know it but I can't access it I have written of this many times before. 

I think it is possible for other new drugs that may help a system seemingly reboot to actually delay the actual healing.  Couple reason I think this... 

There is that rubics cube theory that to me fits like a glove it is so good... describes my experience to  a T

Then there is a book by Patricia Churchland...? think that is the right name that speaks to how the brain actually works.  When I have clarity I am bright and have a knack for gobbling up dry information honor student in history and science long ago... I love this sort of thing but I can no longer remember it... no specifics.  

It shows how the brain works and communicates to it's parts... makes the cube make sense. 

peace

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btdt

Here is the book

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9807852-braintrust

 

Braintrust: What Neuroscience Tells Us about Morality

What is morality? Where does it come from? And why do most of us heed its call most of the time? In Braintrust, neurophilosophy pioneer Patricia Churchland argues that morality originates in the biology of the brain. She describes the "neurobiological platform of bonding" that, modified by evolutionary pressures and cultural values, has led to human styles of moral behavior

 

Odd thing how I read this since withdrawal and now it is all I can pull off to read this site some days like today it comes and goes.  So if your functioning in a higher realm and have the time and engergy you might like to read it. 

Good luck on your exams.  

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Catalyzt

Greenwell, my theory is that my a lot of my neurological functioning-- particularly autonomic, but also in the prefrontal cortex-- was severely impaired by an episode a year ago when I used the antibiotic Flagyl with alcohol.  There are known CNS consequences of this combination, and the fact that I failed to abstain from alcohol while taking the antibiotic indicated to me that I probably had a problem with drinking.  At that point, physical response was good, but emotional bonding was severely impaired-- there was something wrong with everything and everyone, I was suspicious and paranoid in all my personal relationships.  Not with clients, oddly.  I asked my personal therapist if I should continue practicing, and he said that I should.  My clients did well during this period, and I was able to help them even when my own life was falling apart.  Several of them said I had changed their lives in a really positive way, which was terribly ironic because I felt like I'd had a stroke or something.

 

Quitting alcohol and recreational drugs-- marijuana, mostly-- provided a complete shock to the way that my brain functioned.  It is common in early sobriety to be outrageously, insanely horny all the time, among other things.  I also skied and bodyboarded at a level I had never reached before; I felt confident and incredibly strong.  (I did wind up in the ER with severe altitude sickness in May-- had a CAT scan of my brain, which was normal.)

 

Now, I agree with bdtd that the single use of Trazodone, even at the lowest possible dose, was a factor that set me back a bit.  Also, I think there's a natural rebound from the exhuberance of early sobriety.  So I've experienced a modest slump-- just not quite at the level I'd like to be physically in terms of sex.  Not incapable of it, and I do enjoy it a great deal, the stamina just is not there.

 

I do think that men in their mid 50s naturally experience fluctuation in their sex drive.  At this point, I think the factors mentioned above, as well as my long-standing history of PSSD from Paxil, do have a tendency to make the dips lower and the peaks a bit higher.  My sex drive would at this age would probably be a bit erratic anyway without the drugs and without sobriety, there's just an edge to the highs and lows that feels like I've been through a series of neurological shocks.

 

Again, I've decided not to worry about it.  It's within an acceptable range.  I'm not back in the full arousal disorder, where women I would normally be attracted to just seemed like.... sculpture, or something. 

 

Great observation about the antihistamines, btdt.  SSRIs are very similar to antihistamines, Prozac was developed from diphenydramine.  When I showed the molecular structure to a friend of mine-- a mad but brilliant organic chemist-- his comment was, "These drugs are match sticks."  In other words, relatively simple compounds, structurally unsophisticated.

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