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A new BBC Panorama TV documentary on SSRI induced violence and other harm.


Seriouslyscared
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Just to say that for those of us in the UK there is a new one hour BBC Panorama TV documentary airing this Wednesday the 26th of July 2017 on BBC1 at 9PM. This could well end up on YouTube afterwards as well, if the past Panorama's on what they called "The Seroxat Scandal" are anything to go by. There was also an accompanying article in The Sunday Times today on Sunday the 23rd of July 2017. The program is advertised as focusing on the violence that SSRI's can induce amongst other things, focusing on one of the recent mass shootings in the US, perpetrated by somebody who'd just been prescribed an SSRI, if I followed/can remember the TV advert correctly.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08zjyp1

Dec 98; Paroxetine 20mg, quickly increased to 40mg for mild situational teenage depression which I didn't even go for.

Spring 99; Paroxetine reduced back to 20mg over four weeks after mild depression passes.

Autumn 99; Paroxetine reduced down to 14mg, slowly, as initial 10mg reduction was far too much.

Start of 2000; Paroxetine increased back up to 40mg after a 'relapse' and the most severe depression imaginable. No life.

Late 2012 to early 2013, Paroxetine reduced from a bit above 40mg (perhaps close to 50mg) back down to 40mg.

October 2015; tapered off Paroxetine by 5ml/10mg every 2 weeks after finally had enough of years of constant instability. I never did 'get better' as the doctors said to wait for. Never had remotely normal adult life, cared for full time at family home.

Start of August 2016; tried reinstituting Paroxetine at 1mg for 4 days, disaster; shopping list of physical symptoms develop.

Also taken Proton Pump Inhibitors on and off since early 2003, continuously since 2013 for severe upper GI issues

Took Cyclizine 50mg up to 3x daily since 2013 for crippling nausea from severe GI issues, stopped at start of August 2016.

Propranolol 10mg on occasion since May 2016 for extreme stress/racing heart, stopped at start of September 2016

Omega 3, Magnesium, Zinc, stopped Vitamins B complex, C, D3, multivitamin, probiotic, garlic, digestive enzymes

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An article on this topic appeared in the Daily Mail today:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-4726134/Can-pills-depression-turn-killer.html

 

 

cannabis: Spring 2002 - Dec. 2007; regularly smoked, stopped cold turkey; symptoms: paranoid and depressed

Paroxetine: 20 mg July 2008, 40 mg October, 20 mg spring 2009, 0 mg summer 2009

Depakote (sodium valproate): October 2008 - Spring 2009

Haloperdidol 1 week Oct. 2008, H caused seizures, went to A&E;  stopped taking it.

Citalopram few weeks in the fall of 2009 to deal with withdrawal symptoms from stopping paroxetine

Paroxetine round 2: 20 mg Feb - summer 2010 -20mg don't remeber if I went up to 40mg

Venlafaxine & sodium valproate (again): Sep 2010 - Summer 2012  

SERTRALINE: November 2012 - May 2016 , 50-100mg (few days @ 150mg in Summer '15). a complete freak out at the end of April. 

May 2016 Prescribed Lithium and Abilify HAVE NOT TAKEN

No medications May 2016 - October 2016

Hospitalised - November 13th 2016 - Prescribed 15 mg Mirtazapine/Remeron. Reducing since 24 December 2016.  9 June 2017 medication free. 

 

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The BBC tv "Panorama" report is by our own Shelley Joffre, a straightforward, unhysterical reporter (normally..................we shall see).

She was on BBC Scotland for decades and is now appearing on the main UK network.

 

Professor David Healy also appears.  (Irish psychiatrist and historian.  He of the quote "The seratonin theory of depression is comparable to the masturbatory theory of insanity.").

A couple of months ago, my GP claimed never to have heard of him. Some of us on here will have.  His evidence was not called.

 

How would one feel 3 or 4 weeks after jumping off 150mg of an SSRI to zero?  Shudder to think, but I do not know Zoloft.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-40719685

Born 1945. 

1999 - First Effexor/Venlafaxine

2016 Withdrawal research. Effexor.  13Jul - 212.5mg;  6Aug - 200.0mg;  24Aug - 187.5mg;  13Sep - 175.0mg;  3Oct - 162.5mg;  26Oct - 150mg 

2017  9Jan - 150.00mg;  23Mar - 137.50mg;  24Apr - 125.00mg;  31May - 112.50mg holding;  3Sep - 100.00mg;  20Sep - 93.75mg;  20Oct - 87.5mg;  12Nov - 81.25mg;  13 Dec - 75.00mg

2018  18Jan - 69.1mg; 16Feb - 62.5mg; 16March - 57.5mg (-8%); 22Apr - 56.3mg(-2%); CRASHED - Updose 29May - 62.5mg; Updose - 1Jul - 75.0mg. Updose - 2Aug - 87.5mg. Updose - 27Aug - 100.0mg. Updose - 11Oct 112.5mg. Updose - 6Nov 125.00mg

2019 Updoses 19 Jan - 150.0mg. 1April - 162.5mg. 24 April - Feeling better - doing tasks, getting outside.  7 May - usual depression questionnaire gives "probably no depression" result.

Supps/Vits  Omega 3;  Chelated Magnesium;  Prebiotics/Probiotics, Vit D3. 

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On ‎24‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 1:22 AM, Seriouslyscared said:

Just to say that for those of us in the UK there is a new one hour BBC Panorama TV documentary airing this Wednesday the 26th of July 2017 on BBC1 at 9PM. This could well end up on YouTube afterwards as well, if the past Panorama's on what they called "The Seroxat Scandal" are anything to go by. There was also an accompanying article in The Sunday Times today on Sunday the 23rd of July 2017. The program is advertised as focusing on the violence that SSRI's can induce amongst other things, focusing on one of the recent mass shootings in the US, perpetrated by somebody who'd just been prescribed an SSRI, if I followed/can remember the TV advert correctly.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08zjyp1

Thanks for the heads up ,I just looked at the description that is given about the programme and it says "the rare but possibly devastating side affects of antidepressants ". i believe its not even as rare as they will claim .its  a good start for primetime TV to show it ,but the bigger picture is too devastating to be known i reckon  .

anyone with sensitive triggers mite not want to watch it though ,hopefully my mother wont watch it ,she's suffered enough watching me be ripped apart by these drugs .i wont be telling her its on .

thanks again SS for the heads up

PB

Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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5  minutes in and all I see coming from this is total discrimination of people on meds .there is a huge amount of other things going on in someone's brain to want to kill people

Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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I was astounded that the America law enforcement didn't even consider the likelihood that prescribed medication had a huge part to play in this sad and tragic act. The dose was high and to suddenly stop i.e. Cold Turkey; that would have an enormous adverse effect not too say that James Holmes was suffering from adverse reaction in the first place and this was definitely compounded by the fact that the dose was doubled twice.

 

I liked the fact that the Panorama researchers could work on a time line and could see that a pattern formed and it seemed that James Holmes deteriorated pretty quickly when starting the prescription for Sertraline.

 

Lessons must be learned that these medications are truly powerful and mind altering substances and that the practice of increasing doses often makes the primary issues worse.

 

I don't see that any changes to the way that these meds are dished out in the UK will come from this programme, but I do hope that it raises public awareness. I find it very sad that 40M prescriptions for Antidepressants were issued in the UK last year alone.  That averages out at 3.3M people on these damn things.  If as the authorities say only a small percentage of users have psychotic issues, then that number from 3.3M would still be a fair amount, wouldn't you say?

 

Namaste,


DC.

1997 - 2001 Seroxat 10mg

2001 - 2013 Escitalopram 10mg

Gradual taper from 10mg to 5mg over 2.5 years (between 2011 - 2013)

Last taper from 5mg to 0 under advice from doctor done in 1 month (too damn fast!) - included missing out days.

Have been drug free since Oct 2013.  - Yep 5 years drugs free

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Just wondering if this is worth watching. Did anyone manage to watch it all the way through ? Like Powerback says, I'm a bit worried about it being a trigger. Especially after watching previous BBC documentaries on this recently.

2001 (Age 12) - PROZAC 10mg for situational anxiety. Taken over a few weeks.

2005 - PROZAC 10mg. Taken over 7 months. Made me depressed and feel ill. Tapered off over 2 weeks on advice from doctor. 

April 2014- SERTRALINE 25mg. Had a severe adverse reaction within 12 hours. Only took 1 dose.

October 2014- MIRTAZAPINE 15mg

February 2015- Upped Mirtazapine to 30mg because I was feeling much worse than before I started taking it.

August 2015- Dropped Mirtazapine back to 15mg because 30mg was causing even more severe side effects.

October 2015- Mirtazapine 7.5mg. Desperate to get off and feeling awful.

December 2015- Drug free. 5 days after last Mirtazapine tablet hit by severe WD symptoms.

January 2016. Hospitalised because of WD symptoms. Given 2mg of Diazepam.

January 2016 - December 2016. 2mg DIAZEPAM taken as needed. Didn't really help much and never took more than 5 tablets in a month.

Still suffering from numerous symptoms.

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2 minutes ago, Lyssa said:

Just wondering if this is worth watching. Did anyone manage to watch it all the way through ? Like Powerback says, I'm a bit worried about it being a trigger. Especially after watching previous BBC documentaries on this recently.

without question, don't watch it if your easily triggered at the moment ,save yourself the anxiety .I couldn't help but watch it ;)

Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, powerback said:

without question, don't watch it if your easily triggered at the moment ,save yourself the anxiety .I couldn't help but watch it ;)

Thanks for the reply :). I'll avoid it for the moment then.

2001 (Age 12) - PROZAC 10mg for situational anxiety. Taken over a few weeks.

2005 - PROZAC 10mg. Taken over 7 months. Made me depressed and feel ill. Tapered off over 2 weeks on advice from doctor. 

April 2014- SERTRALINE 25mg. Had a severe adverse reaction within 12 hours. Only took 1 dose.

October 2014- MIRTAZAPINE 15mg

February 2015- Upped Mirtazapine to 30mg because I was feeling much worse than before I started taking it.

August 2015- Dropped Mirtazapine back to 15mg because 30mg was causing even more severe side effects.

October 2015- Mirtazapine 7.5mg. Desperate to get off and feeling awful.

December 2015- Drug free. 5 days after last Mirtazapine tablet hit by severe WD symptoms.

January 2016. Hospitalised because of WD symptoms. Given 2mg of Diazepam.

January 2016 - December 2016. 2mg DIAZEPAM taken as needed. Didn't really help much and never took more than 5 tablets in a month.

Still suffering from numerous symptoms.

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8 minutes ago, DaddyCee said:

I was astounded that the America law enforcement didn't even consider the likelihood that prescribed medication had a huge part to play in this sad and tragic act. The dose was high and to suddenly stop i.e. Cold Turkey; that would have an enormous adverse effect not too say that James Holmes was suffering from adverse reaction in the first place and this was definitely compounded by the fact that the dose was doubled twice.

 

I liked the fact that the Panorama researchers could work on a time line and could see that a pattern formed and it seemed that James Holmes deteriorated pretty quickly when starting the prescription for Sertraline.

 

Lessons must be learned that these medications are truly powerful and mind altering substances and that the practice of increasing doses often makes the primary issues worse.

 

I don't see that any changes to the way that these meds are dished out in the UK will come from this programme, but I do hope that it raises public awareness. I find it very sad that 40M prescriptions for Antidepressants were issued in the UK last year alone.  That averages out at 3.3M people on these damn things.  If as the authorities say only a small percentage of users have psychotic issues, then that number from 3.3M would still be a fair amount, wouldn't you say?

 

Namaste,


DC.

of course there wont be changes DC most of the people that prescribe these drugs are ignorant .

Panorama have a lesser agenda that the lawyers so they can give an  unbiased theory .

He had previous unsettling and unnerving thoughts before the meds but without question these drugs scrambled he's brain .

most of us on this site have done more to understand the brain than the  "physiatrists "that dish these meds out .

By the sounds of it ,the prescribing of these drugs will get a lot worse ,that's very scary indeed .

With the percentage that go on to commit murder or assaults ,how many thousands are driven by suttle little changes directly attributed to the meds .

everyone on this site spreading the message through our journey and stories will do more to keep people away from this medication than these programmes but its a good start .

Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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Interesting and very surprising that the flamboyant, pretentious, old git psychiatrist & "expert", with the grey hair in cute little ponytail, and bow tie, thought that being off the drug for "so long" meant it could not be blamed for any role in the violence.

 

Prejudiced, moi?  You bet.

 

Possibly a hired gun.  Mind you, despite my earlier views elsewhere on this forum, we have them in the UK, too, it would appear.

Born 1945. 

1999 - First Effexor/Venlafaxine

2016 Withdrawal research. Effexor.  13Jul - 212.5mg;  6Aug - 200.0mg;  24Aug - 187.5mg;  13Sep - 175.0mg;  3Oct - 162.5mg;  26Oct - 150mg 

2017  9Jan - 150.00mg;  23Mar - 137.50mg;  24Apr - 125.00mg;  31May - 112.50mg holding;  3Sep - 100.00mg;  20Sep - 93.75mg;  20Oct - 87.5mg;  12Nov - 81.25mg;  13 Dec - 75.00mg

2018  18Jan - 69.1mg; 16Feb - 62.5mg; 16March - 57.5mg (-8%); 22Apr - 56.3mg(-2%); CRASHED - Updose 29May - 62.5mg; Updose - 1Jul - 75.0mg. Updose - 2Aug - 87.5mg. Updose - 27Aug - 100.0mg. Updose - 11Oct 112.5mg. Updose - 6Nov 125.00mg

2019 Updoses 19 Jan - 150.0mg. 1April - 162.5mg. 24 April - Feeling better - doing tasks, getting outside.  7 May - usual depression questionnaire gives "probably no depression" result.

Supps/Vits  Omega 3;  Chelated Magnesium;  Prebiotics/Probiotics, Vit D3. 

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2 hours ago, peng said:

Interesting and very surprising that the flamboyant, pretentious, old git psychiatrist & "expert", with the grey hair in cute little ponytail, and bow tie, thought that being off the drug for "so long" meant it could not be blamed for any role in the violence.

 

Prejudiced, moi?  You bet.

 

Possibly a hired gun.  Mind you, despite my earlier views elsewhere on this forum, we have them in the UK, too, it would appear.

good point about the psychiatrist peng ,its utterly ridiculous from our point of view from  being on the meds .we have experience of being on them and the affects .I'm finished ever listening to a psychiatrist ,no different than a chemist .worse actually because they claim to know what they talk about .

Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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I watched it and most of the 'experts' didn't have a clue. I was even disappointed with Healey who said that the majority of people are helped by SSRIs and he prescribes them but a MINORITY have adverse effects that lead to suicide or violence. The ones they talk about are just the tip of the iceberg. How many doctors report these side effects that patients complain about, or even take them seriously? We see so many here who have not been listened to and there must be many thousands out there with the same adverse effects who think it is their 'illness'.  It was a good documentary that really did delve deep and left us in no doubt it was the SSRI that tipped him over the edge but I wish they had an interview with Breggin on there too. 

**I am not a medical professional, if in doubt please consult a doctor with withdrawal knowledge.

 

 

Different drugs occasionally (mostly benzos) 1976 - 1981 (no problem)

1993 - 2002 in and out of hospital. every type of drug + ECT. Staring with seroxat

2002  effexor. 

Tapered  March 2012 to March 2013, ending with 5 beads.

Withdrawal April 2013 . Reinstated 5 beads reduced to 4 beads May 2013

Restarted taper  Nov 2013  

OFF EFFEXOR Feb 2015    :D 

Tapered atenolol and omeprazole Dec 2013 - May 2014

 

Tapering tramadol, Feb 2015 100mg , March 2015 50mg  

 July 2017 30mg.  May 15 2018 25mg

Taking fish oil, magnesium, B12, folic acid, bilberry eyebright for eye pressure. 

 

My story http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4199-hello-mammap-checking-in/page-33

 

Lesson learned, slow down taper at lower doses. Taper no more than 10% of CURRENT dose if possible

 

 

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I wonder if there is any serious unbiased  study's out there that's not connected to governments and big pharma ,how could they even be funded .

I doubt even the W.H.O isn't affected .

the only way it will ever change is if the tax man is being affected because so many people going on disability because of the drugs .but then again could you imagine the tax bill coming from the industry .

these drugs are here for ever ,and the only way to save and stop more suffering is some kind of genetic test to see how compatible ones system is to the drugs ,

we can never know the seriousness of these drugs ,with the way society is set up with shame and embarrassment ,discrimination ,ignorance .

it brings serious responsibility to all of us that want to get off and function normally off these drugs to show the powers that be it can be done and most of all our peers that are in the same boat

 

 

Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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I'm pretty much video-ed and audio-ed out these days but I listened to it as well

I totally agree with MammaP.

Those experts were  sickening in their ignorance. Same old  'oh it cant be due to the drug he hadn't taken it for three weeks'

This is 2017 and to hear such stupiditiy is despairing.

I am also disappointed with the comment 'many people are helped ' and to allow  pharma  lies to be broadcast that 'millions have been helped' was very sad. The truth is millions have not been helped ,millions have got addicted and cannot stop and they and their doctors have no idea how to stop.

I was also disappointed that SJ ended the whole thing with  the 'many have been helped' line. She of all people has known as far back as 2001 that many have been harmed not helped.

 

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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My mother watched it and has told me that one of the 'experts' claimed that antidepressants are very effective for 99.9% of the people who take them (although she was worried that she'd misheard what he'd said because it sounds so unbelievable). Surely that percentage is completely incorrect ? Just wondering why he was allowed to quote that as a fact when it seems very far removed from the truth :(

2001 (Age 12) - PROZAC 10mg for situational anxiety. Taken over a few weeks.

2005 - PROZAC 10mg. Taken over 7 months. Made me depressed and feel ill. Tapered off over 2 weeks on advice from doctor. 

April 2014- SERTRALINE 25mg. Had a severe adverse reaction within 12 hours. Only took 1 dose.

October 2014- MIRTAZAPINE 15mg

February 2015- Upped Mirtazapine to 30mg because I was feeling much worse than before I started taking it.

August 2015- Dropped Mirtazapine back to 15mg because 30mg was causing even more severe side effects.

October 2015- Mirtazapine 7.5mg. Desperate to get off and feeling awful.

December 2015- Drug free. 5 days after last Mirtazapine tablet hit by severe WD symptoms.

January 2016. Hospitalised because of WD symptoms. Given 2mg of Diazepam.

January 2016 - December 2016. 2mg DIAZEPAM taken as needed. Didn't really help much and never took more than 5 tablets in a month.

Still suffering from numerous symptoms.

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5 minutes ago, Lyssa said:

My mum watched it and has told me that one of the 'experts' claimed that antidepressants are very effective for 99.9% of the people who take them (although she was worried that she'd misheard what he'd said because it sounds so unbelievable). Surely that percentage is completely incorrect ? Just wondering why he was allowed to quote that as a fact when it seems very far removed from the truth :(

don't put yourself into that 1% lyssa ,its a far higher percentage of people affected negatively  than they claim.

the simple fact is it would be bad for business to tell the truth .

you'll have to watch a lot more than that programme to get a clearer picture .

be very mindful when things like this make you anxious .

recovery is first .

PB

Alcohol free since February 2015 

1MG diazepam

4.5MG PROZAC.

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, powerback said:

don't put yourself into that 1% lyssa ,its a far higher percentage of people affected negatively  than they claim.

the simple fact is it would be bad for business to tell the truth .

you'll have to watch a lot more than that programme to get a clearer picture .

be very mindful when things like this make you anxious .

recovery is first .

PB

Thanks Powerback. You're completely right. I guess these things shouldn't be surprising anymore considering everything we know. It's just upsetting when you hear something untrue being presented as fact. 

2001 (Age 12) - PROZAC 10mg for situational anxiety. Taken over a few weeks.

2005 - PROZAC 10mg. Taken over 7 months. Made me depressed and feel ill. Tapered off over 2 weeks on advice from doctor. 

April 2014- SERTRALINE 25mg. Had a severe adverse reaction within 12 hours. Only took 1 dose.

October 2014- MIRTAZAPINE 15mg

February 2015- Upped Mirtazapine to 30mg because I was feeling much worse than before I started taking it.

August 2015- Dropped Mirtazapine back to 15mg because 30mg was causing even more severe side effects.

October 2015- Mirtazapine 7.5mg. Desperate to get off and feeling awful.

December 2015- Drug free. 5 days after last Mirtazapine tablet hit by severe WD symptoms.

January 2016. Hospitalised because of WD symptoms. Given 2mg of Diazepam.

January 2016 - December 2016. 2mg DIAZEPAM taken as needed. Didn't really help much and never took more than 5 tablets in a month.

Still suffering from numerous symptoms.

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For those who aren't able to access the video that the OP posted because you are outside of the UK, this is now available on YouTube for everyone to see:

 

Panorama, A Prescription for Murder - video 58 minutes

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Just like others posting on this thread, I also was not impressed. For a journalist who spent a year researching this program, I am utterly disappointed. As someone battling severe depersonalization and derealization, along with cognitive impairment, due to withdrawal, I did a much better job of researching and finding information, as do many people on these withdrawal forums. After all, we are looking for information to save our lives.

 

So what did this program do wrong? What was left out? Like others have mentioned, nothing on the rising disability rate, not much in the way of statistics relating to withdrawal and to efficacy, etc. 

 

What I know now comes from:  Robert Whitaker's statistics on the growing disability rate for people on psych drugs, Dr. Giovanna Fava's research on oppositional tolerance (i.e. tardive dysphoria and how antidepressants make transient depression chronic), Dr. Irving Kirsch's writings on SSRIs being no more relevant than a placebo, reading hundreds of case histories on withdrawal support forums describing the sheer nightmare of withdrawal syndrome, the billions of dollars in judgements the Department of Justice has obtained from pharmaceutical companies for civil and criminal lawsuits, the connection of psychiatry to the criminal justice system, and from my own tragic misdiagnosis of manic-depression and schizoaffective disorder at 17 after an exposure to imipramine, which led to 30 years of massive polydrugging. These things I already knew.

 

But if I didn't know about such things, that documentary would not have convinced me of much. When you pit one so-called "expert" against another, it always ends up with the viewer walking away confused and misinformed, especially when the statistics on the rise of disability and the rate of the mentally ill being incarcerated are left out. We are left with the knowledge that "some" people "may" have adverse reactions, but "most" people will be "happy and functional" on these drugs. 

 

That "expert" who said antidepressants help 99.9% of people?!  Hardly. Even the pharma-friendly research on PubMed paints a different story:

 

         Depression: How effective are antidepressants?

 

  • Without antidepressants: About 20 to 40 out of 100 people who took a placebo noticed an improvement in their symptoms within six to eight weeks.
  • With antidepressants: About 40 to 60 out of 100 people who took an antidepressant noticed an improvement in their symptoms within six to eight weeks.

According to that study, only 20% noticed an improvement over placebo. 

 

Again, this is a short-term study and doesn't even look at tardive dysphoria and the withdrawal syndrome, including PSSD which has ruined millions of marriages and broken up millions of homes. Effective? No. Profitable? Yes. 

 

However, this video IS the start of a conversation, especially since this is now coming out of the BBC and not some shady Scientology documentary. For that, I'll give it some props. But they need to do better. A LOT better. Journalists need to seek out questions about the rising disability rate and high rates of mass incarceration for mental illness and then call out these experts on such issues. These are the relevant questions when dealing with the issue of drug efficacy, safety, and violence. The reason Whitaker is so effective as a journalist is he's able to make these kinds of connections and then follow through with them. 

 

So until journalists learn how to anything but pit one expert against another in hopes that the truth will somehow weasel out, we are left in the dark ages. This is one reason it took decades for people (even doctors) to connect second-hand cigarette smoke to cancer and why tens of millions of people still don't believe in climate change.

 

The chemical imbalance theory is dead. Can't we bury it already? It's time to move onto solving the reason human beings suffer - trauma, poor nutrition, toxic chemical exposure, under-funded and over-crowded schools, lack of exercise, loneliness, income inequality, etc.  

Edited by Shep

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Dang, I'm sorry to hear this came down on the side of "shut up and take your 'meds'" :(

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Worse than that, JC - I'm on David Healy's twitter feed (and a few others) and it's been non-stop about how this documentary is perpetuating the stigma that the mentally ill are violent. Talk about circular reasoning and not sticking to the topic. 

 

There's also the concern that people will see this documentary and stop taking their meds and have to suffer from debilitating depression and possibly end up as suicides. 

 

And it gets worse. A lot of the internet media involves journalists who are on the drugs, like this one from the Huffington Post UK:

 

‘A Prescription For Murder’ Left Me Sad, Angry And With Very Little Respect For Panorama

 

To quote the author of the article:  "I have successfully stopped two SSRI medications successfully without any problems, and I have just finished coming off a high dose of an SNRI drug successfully with some inconvenient withdrawal symptoms, but my mood has maintained, and I have not suffered any emotional or psychological side effects to date."

 

I'm not sure I'd use the word "successfully" to describe going off one AD and ending up on another. And he sure isn't clued in on delayed withdrawal.

 

When journalists are indoctrinated, they cannot be impartial. And with so many people on psychiatric drugs, finding a journalist who isn't on one or close to someone who is (and is also indoctrinated), it's hard to find good reporting. I am becoming more and more convinced that medication spell binding is real. 

 

I had expected more of the BBC, especially since they had already done an investigation connecting seroxat (Paxil).

 

For anyone who hasn't already seen it the BBC's older documentary on seroxat, it's on YouTube:

 

Panorama: The Secrets of Seroxat - video 50 minutes

 

 

Edited by Shep

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Yes, I saw the Secrets of Seroxat when it came out - it was on AussieBC.  That was my first awareness that what the Scientologists had been saying for decades (by then) had basis in reality.

 

Yes, medication spellbinding is real.

 

I watched this new BBC thing - and here's my take.  While it's not perfect - it is the FIRST TIME that we've had a MAINSTREAM media outlet even CONSIDER the possibility that these drugs cause violence.

 

The presenter came down on the side that the drugs caused the problem.  The doctors who pooh-pooh'd the theory were all Americans.  The ones who advised caution were all from the UK.  I think my main objection was that they called it a "rare" reaction.

 

I put a bunch of comments in the YouTube comment section.  For what it's worth.  YouTube comments are usually a place of brawling, but I tried.

 

I will read the HuffPost article you posted.  Thanks for all that you do.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Reading the HuffPost article - 

 

Thinking about the program - 

 

The "insanity plea" was rejected by the courts

and yet the doctors insist it was his "mental health" that made him do it.

 

Psychiatrists have too much power.

"Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna

 

Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again.

 

My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices.

 

A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia.   CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013.   Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine).     Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 -  Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years  on Lithium).  Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made.


The tedious thread (my intro):  JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium

The happy thread (my success story):  JanCarol - Undiagnosed  Off all bipolar drugs

My own blog:  https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/

 

 

I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!

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Nice posts, JanCarol, and I saw yours on the latest MIA topic, too.  Well done on all counts.

 

Journalists are mainly journalists, they are not even up to the mark as scientific researchers, or scientists, as was I.  Having seen her on our programs since she started decades ago, Shelley Joffre is a lot cooler and more serious-minded about compiling her reports than the drama queens we see from time to time on the international media.  Spare us from them.

 

Our middle child (42) has been a journalist since before he left uni.  He has just been given a job in Barcelona with a world famous financial news organisation.  He listened to me when I droned on about scientific subjects and we exchange emails about all sorts, particularly climate change, but maybe just about our football team.  

 

He would be the first to agree that a journalist given a year to study that massively controversial and most technical story could not shape it into a form that critics on here would all be happy with.

So it was far from perfect.  The BBC and Panorama are not perfect, but they are a lot better than countless other similar organisations.

We who can think for ourselves (yes?) as victims of these drugs will have found plenty to not be happy about, but at least one more reasonable portrayal of the epidemic has been or still can be seen by millions more and has to be viewd as a positive.

Born 1945. 

1999 - First Effexor/Venlafaxine

2016 Withdrawal research. Effexor.  13Jul - 212.5mg;  6Aug - 200.0mg;  24Aug - 187.5mg;  13Sep - 175.0mg;  3Oct - 162.5mg;  26Oct - 150mg 

2017  9Jan - 150.00mg;  23Mar - 137.50mg;  24Apr - 125.00mg;  31May - 112.50mg holding;  3Sep - 100.00mg;  20Sep - 93.75mg;  20Oct - 87.5mg;  12Nov - 81.25mg;  13 Dec - 75.00mg

2018  18Jan - 69.1mg; 16Feb - 62.5mg; 16March - 57.5mg (-8%); 22Apr - 56.3mg(-2%); CRASHED - Updose 29May - 62.5mg; Updose - 1Jul - 75.0mg. Updose - 2Aug - 87.5mg. Updose - 27Aug - 100.0mg. Updose - 11Oct 112.5mg. Updose - 6Nov 125.00mg

2019 Updoses 19 Jan - 150.0mg. 1April - 162.5mg. 24 April - Feeling better - doing tasks, getting outside.  7 May - usual depression questionnaire gives "probably no depression" result.

Supps/Vits  Omega 3;  Chelated Magnesium;  Prebiotics/Probiotics, Vit D3. 

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Interesting to read this thread about the documentary. I'm in far to bad a way to watch something like this at the moment, it would just trigger me. Something else seemingly inconsequential has just shattered the first break (dare I say window) that I'd had in nine months. Hopefully I can do so in the future along with reading the literature on this subject matter as well.

Dec 98; Paroxetine 20mg, quickly increased to 40mg for mild situational teenage depression which I didn't even go for.

Spring 99; Paroxetine reduced back to 20mg over four weeks after mild depression passes.

Autumn 99; Paroxetine reduced down to 14mg, slowly, as initial 10mg reduction was far too much.

Start of 2000; Paroxetine increased back up to 40mg after a 'relapse' and the most severe depression imaginable. No life.

Late 2012 to early 2013, Paroxetine reduced from a bit above 40mg (perhaps close to 50mg) back down to 40mg.

October 2015; tapered off Paroxetine by 5ml/10mg every 2 weeks after finally had enough of years of constant instability. I never did 'get better' as the doctors said to wait for. Never had remotely normal adult life, cared for full time at family home.

Start of August 2016; tried reinstituting Paroxetine at 1mg for 4 days, disaster; shopping list of physical symptoms develop.

Also taken Proton Pump Inhibitors on and off since early 2003, continuously since 2013 for severe upper GI issues

Took Cyclizine 50mg up to 3x daily since 2013 for crippling nausea from severe GI issues, stopped at start of August 2016.

Propranolol 10mg on occasion since May 2016 for extreme stress/racing heart, stopped at start of September 2016

Omega 3, Magnesium, Zinc, stopped Vitamins B complex, C, D3, multivitamin, probiotic, garlic, digestive enzymes

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Yes, good choice to avoid, Ss.

Hope you can improve soon.  Thinking of you.

Best wishes.

Born 1945. 

1999 - First Effexor/Venlafaxine

2016 Withdrawal research. Effexor.  13Jul - 212.5mg;  6Aug - 200.0mg;  24Aug - 187.5mg;  13Sep - 175.0mg;  3Oct - 162.5mg;  26Oct - 150mg 

2017  9Jan - 150.00mg;  23Mar - 137.50mg;  24Apr - 125.00mg;  31May - 112.50mg holding;  3Sep - 100.00mg;  20Sep - 93.75mg;  20Oct - 87.5mg;  12Nov - 81.25mg;  13 Dec - 75.00mg

2018  18Jan - 69.1mg; 16Feb - 62.5mg; 16March - 57.5mg (-8%); 22Apr - 56.3mg(-2%); CRASHED - Updose 29May - 62.5mg; Updose - 1Jul - 75.0mg. Updose - 2Aug - 87.5mg. Updose - 27Aug - 100.0mg. Updose - 11Oct 112.5mg. Updose - 6Nov 125.00mg

2019 Updoses 19 Jan - 150.0mg. 1April - 162.5mg. 24 April - Feeling better - doing tasks, getting outside.  7 May - usual depression questionnaire gives "probably no depression" result.

Supps/Vits  Omega 3;  Chelated Magnesium;  Prebiotics/Probiotics, Vit D3. 

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There's a discussion about the documentary in the British Medical Journal (BMJ):

 

Antidepressants and murder: case not closed

 

Here are the "rapid responses":

 

Antidepressants and murder: case not closed - rapid responses comments

 

Dr. David Healy's comment is here and I'll list it below, as he raises some good points. 

 

Quote

 

04 August 2017
David Healy
professor of psychiatry
 
Bangor University
Hergest Unit, Ysbyty Gwynedd
 

Dr Adshead misses the point behind this program. This was not a program attempting to prove antidepressants can cause homicide. This has already been conceded by prosecutors, regulators and company personnel. As early as 1982, Pfizer personnel had noted that this class of drug (SSRI) were known to cause these reactions.

 

Nor was it about whether sertraline caused James Holmes to commit murder. Having spent time with the man, my view is that it did, and more could have been done to persuade viewers of this.

 

The key issue was this. If it has been conceded this drug can cause events like this, and if a case could be made that it did so in this instance, why did Holmes' legal team not run it?

 

The answer in part lies in the fact that academic literature on SSRIs is almost entirely ghost-written and there is no access to the data generated by the RCTs of these drugs. The BMJ and other journals play a part in this situation. This means that to acquit Holmes. a lawyer has to persuade a jury that most academics and journals are guilty of failing to adhere to the norms of science.

 

Holmes was in a Guildford Four quandary. Paraphrasing Lord Denning in that case " If his [their] story is right, it is such an appalling vista it cannot be. Wrongfully convicted prisoners should stay in jail rather than be freed and risk a loss of public confidence in the law".

 

Holmes had a public defender. If he had been wealthy enough to afford a lawyer who relished the challenge, or if the crime was less horrific, things might have been different. The rest of us who end up on the wrong end of one of the close to 100 drugs, including respiratory, skin and cardiac drugs, that prosecutors or companies have indicated can cause violence risk ending up in the same legal quandary Holmes was/is in.

 

There have been a lot of comments, coordinated by the Science Media Centre, that this program cast aspersions on a useful group of drugs. We need to find some balance between raising alarms about a drug and ensuring we do not compromise an innocent person's right to a fair trial.

 

Competing interests: Involvement in the Panorama programme

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Shep
fixed formatting problems with quote

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Rxisk.org just tweeted a new article on the documentary:

 

Prescription for Murder ABCD

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Another good article appearing on AntiDepAware on this important documentary here:

 

The Great Myth Buster

cannabis: Spring 2002 - Dec. 2007; regularly smoked, stopped cold turkey; symptoms: paranoid and depressed

Paroxetine: 20 mg July 2008, 40 mg October, 20 mg spring 2009, 0 mg summer 2009

Depakote (sodium valproate): October 2008 - Spring 2009

Haloperdidol 1 week Oct. 2008, H caused seizures, went to A&E;  stopped taking it.

Citalopram few weeks in the fall of 2009 to deal with withdrawal symptoms from stopping paroxetine

Paroxetine round 2: 20 mg Feb - summer 2010 -20mg don't remeber if I went up to 40mg

Venlafaxine & sodium valproate (again): Sep 2010 - Summer 2012  

SERTRALINE: November 2012 - May 2016 , 50-100mg (few days @ 150mg in Summer '15). a complete freak out at the end of April. 

May 2016 Prescribed Lithium and Abilify HAVE NOT TAKEN

No medications May 2016 - October 2016

Hospitalised - November 13th 2016 - Prescribed 15 mg Mirtazapine/Remeron. Reducing since 24 December 2016.  9 June 2017 medication free. 

 

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I watched this and it was mostly waffle apart from a small section towards the end of the documentary where they eluded to the fact that he had not renewed his prescription for nearly a month and was probably suffering from acute withdrawal. More sensationalist journalism that totally missed the point.

2001: 20mg paroxetine
2003-2014: Switched between 20mg citalopram and 10mg escitalopram with several failed CT's
2015: Jan/ Feb-very fast taper off citalopram; Mar/ Apr-crashed; 23 Apr-reinstated 5mg; 05 May-updosed to 10mg; 15 Jul-started taper; Aug-9.0mg; Sep-8.1mg; Oct-7.6mg; Nov-6.8mg; Dec-6.2mg
2016: Jan-5.7mg; Feb-5.2mg; Mar-5.0mg;  Apr-4.5mg; May-4.05mg; Jun-3.65mg; Jul-3.3mg; Aug-2.95mg; 04Sep-2.65mg; 25Sep-2.4mg; 23Oct-2.15mg; 13Nov-1.95mg; 04Dec-1.75mg; 25Dec-1.55mg.
2017: 08Jan-1.4mg; 22Jan-1.25mg; 12Feb-1.1mg; 26Feb-1.0mg; 05Mar-0.9mg; 15Mar-0.8mg; 22Mar-0.7mg; 02Apr-0.6; 09Apr-0.5mg; 16Apr-0.4mg; 23Apr-0.3; 03May-0.2mg; 10May-0.1mg

Finished taper 17 May 2017.

 

I am not a medical professional. The information I provide is not medical advice. If in doubt please consult with a qualified healthcare provider.

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I posted a series of videos with Dr. Loren Mosher in conversation with Robert Whitaker over on my own thread, but I think this video also belongs on this thread. The video below was uploaded on 2006, but it was originally video taped in 2003. So the link between SSRI induced shootings has been known for a really long time by researchers and academics who came from mainstream medicine. 

 

Dr. Loren Mosher was once was chief of the Center for Studies of Schizophrenia at the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) but his work was de-funded due to his research in finding non-drug treatments for schizophrenia which are by far more effective, but not nearly as profitable. 

 

Psych Drug Pusher/Users, Antidepressants, & School Shooters video (8 minutes)

 

As Dr. Mosher states in the video:  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped." 

 

Now he's wrong in thinking that doctors would stop prescribing the drugs from his vantage point in 2003, but that doesn't negate the truth of what he's saying about the drugs, but rather, shows how powerful big pharma really is and how utterly corrupt the American Psychiatric Association is. 

 

Dr. Mosher summed up his thoughts on mainstream psychiatry here where he refers to the American Psychiatric Association as the American Psychopharmacological Association. 

 

Dr. Loren Mosher - Letter of Resignation from the American Psychiatric Association

 

Edited by Shep

Drug free May 22, 2015 after 30 years of neuroleptics, benzos, z-drugs, so-called "anti"-depressants, and amphetamines 

 

My Success Story:  Shep's Success: "Leaving Plato's Cave"

 

And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good — need we ask anyone to tell us these things? ~ Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice, but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

 

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Wow Shep you post some great stuff just read that resignation letter from Mosher. What I find so tragic is that that letter was written in 1998 ! I looked at the date after I read it I thought I was reading something recent. 

I just cant understand why no one is listening to the truth.

Actually Mosher alludes to this

"The fact that there is no evidence confirming the brain disease attribution is, at this point, irrelevant. What we are dealing with here is fashion, politics and MONEY. This level of intellectual /scientific dishonesty is just too egregious for me to continue to support by my membership."

 

I think I need to save your post in my intro.

nz11

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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