Enrico2910: member from Italy

[enrico2910]

This evening I've experienced a mild serotoninergic crisis. One at 18.30 pm. One at 22pm. I've skipped the evening dose of course. So I've definitely had a bad reaction. I think I am lost now. 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, @enrico2910

 

1 hour ago, enrico2910 said:

This evening I've experienced a mild serotoninergic crisis. One at 18.30 pm. One at 22pm. I've skipped the evening dose of course. So I've definitely had a bad reaction. I think I am lost now. 

 

What do you mean by this?

 

How many times have you taken 1mg escitalopram per day this last time around?

[Erell]

@enrico2910 : I've merged the new topic you created with your original Introduction thread.

 Please post in your thread.

 

Take care.

[enrico2910]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Welcome, @enrico2910

 

 

What do you mean by this?

 

How many times have you taken 1mg escitalopram per day this last time around?

Yesterday morning 1mg.

The day before in the evening 1mg.

 

Reactions: Restlessness, high anxiety, high heart rate, trembling all the body, nausea, zero appetite. 

 

Yesterday's evening i didn't take anything and this morning in Italy I feel a little bit better. 

[Altostrata]

Most people take escitalopram once a day, why are you taking it twice a day?

 

Are you now taking 1mg per day?

[enrico2910]

8 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Most people take escitalopram once a day, why are you taking it twice a day?

 

Are you now taking 1mg per day?

 

Hi Altostrada, thank you for the support.

 

I've always followed this sheme since I was put on the drug citalopram for the 1st time: daily dosage split in 2, once in the morning, once in the evening (eg. 20mg, 10mg morning, 10 mg evening). I never change this, cause I am scared. 

 

The problem here is that the liquid bottle lost its potency. When I ran out it's was a "guess game". I was believing I was taking 3.4mg, so I started with the new bottle to take 2mg (1mg in the morning, 1 in the evening) to see what would happen. But I had an horrible reaction. This dosage was somehow really potent (Restlessness, high anxiety, high heart rate, trembling all the body, nausea, vomiting, zero appetite). It seems my nervous system crashed. 

 

Now I am not taking anything, cause I am scared. And Even 2 days after I feel waves that lasts 1 hour or more where I feel my nervous system overactive. It's slighly improving over time. I hope I didn't damage anything. I feel a little bit suicidal, maybe I have to ask support, but here in Italy I was not able to find anyone aware about this and I am scared that someone could make more harm than good. 

 

 

[Altostrata]

18 hours ago, enrico2910 said:

The problem here is that the liquid bottle lost its potency. When I ran out it's was a "guess game". I was believing I was taking 3.4mg, so I started with the new bottle to take 2mg (1mg in the morning, 1 in the evening) to see what would happen.

 

Not sure what we can do about this. As you know, we emphasize the importance of taking consistent doses and very gradual control dosage changes.

 

Quote

 

February 2020: 4 drops, 8 mg. Taking low dose B complex, Vit D, magnesium and omega 3, Zinc-L-Carnosyne. 

April 2021: 3.4 mg + Supplements.

 

 

This is from your signature. It appears you decreased from 8mg to 3.4mg in one step, a decrease that's greater than 50%.

[enrico2910]

7 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

Not sure what we can do about this. As you know, we emphasize the importance of taking consistent doses and very gradual control dosage changes.

 

 

 

This is from your signature. It appears you decreased from 8mg to 3.4mg in one step, a decrease that's greater than 50%.

 

Indeed from 8 to 3.4 mg was a very very guadual tapering made on months. It was like this: 8 --> 7.2 - 1 month stay --> 6.5 - 1 month stay --> 5.9 etc.

The only error I committed in this journey was from 3.4 to "I don't know where in how much" :(. When the bottle ran out and I've bought a new one I started to take 2mg (1 mg in the morning, 1 in the evening) but I had a bad reaction.

 

It'a passed 3 days since ( I dind't take anything as per your guidelines suggestions) and It's improving. In your opinion, why I had this bad reaction?

 

E.

 

[Altostrata]

On 4/7/2021 at 2:46 AM, enrico2910 said:

In your opinion, why I had this bad reaction?

 

I don't know. It's not clear how much citalopram you have been taking, as you noted. It may be you accidentally took too much.

[enrico2910]

On 4/9/2021 at 9:01 AM, Altostrata said:

 

I don't know. It's not clear how much citalopram you have been taking, as you noted. It may be you accidentally took too much.

 

I am sure I took 2 doses. Once Saturday afternoon 1mg, and once on Sunday morning 1mg. 

 It's passed 6 days and I am still having waves where my nervous system is overactive (Trembling, Nausea, high heart rate, feeling wired). I lost 4kgs. Even a small thing can exacerbate this: yesterday evening I walked too much (45min) and 30 minutes after I felt too much serotonin. Waves usually happens during the night.

 

What's happening to me? I am scared. Please 🙏 give me some relief.

 

I was at the end of this journey, doing fine, and now it seems I had an adverse reaction.

 

It's 6 days I am not taking any citalopram, neither my usual supplements to not trigger any symptoms.

 

 

[Altostrata]

You dosed citalopram erratically, you went off 3.4mg more or less abruptly, and now you have withdrawal symptoms.

 

If I were you, I'd reinstate 0.5mg citalopram, measured carefully with a small oral syringe. Take it every day at the same time.

[enrico2910]

On 4/10/2021 at 9:10 PM, Altostrata said:

You dosed citalopram erratically, you went off 3.4mg more or less abruptly, and now you have withdrawal symptoms.

 

If I were you, I'd reinstate 0.5mg citalopram, measured carefully with a small oral syringe. Take it every day at the same time.

 

Yes you're right. I was doing fine and carefully and I made a mistake at my finale step :(. Stupid, idiot me! 

 

But believe me when I say that the 2mg of Celexa reinstatement (split dosage 1mg - morning/evening) completely put my nervous system out of balance.

 

I was experiencing WDs (since 4-6 weeks) from my error, but respect on what's happening now... OMG.

 

It's has been passed 3 weeks since and symphtoms are slowly slowly improving. 

 

It's like one moment I have low serotonin with a range of symptoms (flu like, tremors, pains), the moment after I have high serotonin with another set of symptoms (adrenaline rush, hot flashes, hyperactive).

 

Yesterday I felt quite normal. It's like waves and windows pattern amplified by just a single super potent dose. Hope it will stabilize soon and not in months.

 

I don't know if I will be brave enough to follow your suggestion to reinstate 0.5mg after this horrible experience. 

 

Now I am waiting the rebound phase :(. I tired to contact - again - a doctor in Italy and she told me to take benzodiazepines. I refused.

 

I would like to have someone to support me. My lovely family is helping me, but I am alone with no medical support. 

 

Someone please can tell me if I can find a doctor in Europe? I don't know if can help knowing someone is monitoring you. I could feel more safe and maybe this can help to manage this phase. 

 

 

E.

[Rosetta]

It’s awful to not feel safe. I understand your fear and your desire to have a doctor help you.  I wish there were more of them who could help us.  
 

Alto is usually right.  We can’t predict how anyone will react or promise that there is no risk, but you were doing so well with your taper.  People have problems and make mistakes during tapers all the time.  It is possible to get back on track, and cold turkey is not the best way for most people.  So, if I were you, I would try the suggestion Alto made.  Then, post a diary of your day starting with the dose and telling how you feel, both physically and mentally, each hour after the dose.  Do this for 10 or 11 days.  Post each day here in a separate post.  That will help the Mods to see how the reinstatement is going.  

 

I am very glad you have family to help you.

 

Here are some videos about surviving this situation. (Don’t push through symptoms or do more than you feel you can. Be very gentle with yourself.  The person who advocates pushing through symptoms— ignore that part of her advice.) Scroll down through the whole thread.

 

 

 

[enrico2910]

3 hours ago, Rosetta said:

It’s awful to not feel safe. I understand your fear and your desire to have a doctor help you.  I wish there were more of them who could help us.  
 

Alto is usually right.  We can’t predict how anyone will react or promise that there is no risk, but you were doing so well with your taper.  People have problems and make mistakes during tapers all the time.  It is possible to get back on track, and cold turkey is not the best way for most people.  So, if I were you, I would try the suggestion Alto made.  Then, post a diary of your day starting with the dose and telling how you feel, both physically and mentally, each hour after the dose.  Do this for 10 or 11 days.  Post each day here in a separate post.  That will help the Mods to see how the reinstatement is going.  

 

I am very glad you have family to help you.

 

Here are some videos about surviving this situation. (Don’t push through symptoms or do more than you feel you can. Be very gentle with yourself.  The person who advocates pushing through symptoms— ignore that part of her advice.) Scroll down through the whole thread.

 

 

 

 

Thank you Rosetta. When I took 2mg, It's because I realized I was taking a less potent citalopram dose (I was sure I was taking 3.4 mg, but the liquid bottle has been opened for 7 months. Too much - max 4 months). I was experiencing familiar WDs in February|March. So when the bottle finished I've bought a new one and I made a test: if I was taking  less than 3.4mg and WDs were mild, maybe I can try with 2 mg. Wrong. I think the potency degradated over time near zero, but for sure It was not a cold turkey. I know feelings of cold turkey unfortunately.

 

Take into consideration that I am tapering safety from 80mg since 2015, so I am aware of feelings. 

 

I started experiencing this dysautonomia symptoms only after I took 2mg. It was a crash. I felt dysautonomia a couple of hours after I took the last dose. It was clearly a mild, but unpleasant serotoninergic syndrome. Hard to believe that it caused me this with 2mg, but because I was in WD, my brain was already sensitized. It was like a bomb.

 

Believe me, please 🙏, WDs were manageable before of this bomb 💣 I took. 

 

It's now passed 18 days and symptoms are improving slowly. It's like I having WDs from a single dose of Celexa. 

 

First days I had burning feelings, shivering, trembling, myoclonus waves every couple of hours. 

 

After 2 weeks I had this kind of waves a couple of time per day. 

 

Yesterday almost nothing. Today once. 

 

I feel I am improving. 

 

 

[Rosetta]

That’s good!  I am so very shocked to see that your sister thought she was doing you a favor by opening your bottle and putting water in it?!  
 

Perhaps if you are very careful for the next year or so to avoid kindling yourself you will be ok.  Maybe you can avoid anything and everything that might affect your sensitive system.  I hope you have had your COVID vaccine?  
 

On my thread, I’m always talking about my fear of kindling.  I have been off 4 years.  I had a tooth drilled recently, and the doctor gave me adrenaline based numbing agent.  I had asked him not to — directly, to his face, and he agreed.  Then he did so anyway. It was awful — Immediate heart racing.  I knew instantly.  Then, over several weeks, I had akathisia again although it was very mild compared to before.  I think I have recovered from that kindling.  
 

Good luck to you!

 

Rosetta

 

 

[enrico2910]

Vaccine? Not yet! I am 35, considered not at risk. 

 

What do you mean by akathisia? I read that you can develop akathisia after 3-6 months you stop SSRI.

 

I don't know if during this 2 years tapering journey I've experienced it. For sure I've experienced brutal WDs: premature ejaculation was my 🚨 alarm checkpoint, if I started to have this then in a couple of days all other symptoms appeared (crying spells, rage, insonnia, agitation, obsessions, extreme anxiety, depression, confusion, etc.). When my ejaculation came back to normal, then all other symptoms started to fade down and I understood that the storm was passed. A couple of weeks of relief and I came back to taper again.

 

This akathisia made me scared 😨. 

 

 

[Rosetta]

If things are improving rather than getting worse, that’s a good sign.  I didn’t mean to scare you. Sorry.  It’s just that sometimes people think reaching zero and feeling good means they don’t have to be careful with their nervous systems.  They have to introduce only tiny amounts of anything they want to try and only try one thing at a time.  Your system will be sensitive for quite a while after zero.  Maybe even few years.  Everyone is different.  Jumping off at 3.4 makes it more likely you will be sensitive.  It always makes me sad to see someone doing well who tries a regular dose of something or gets a cavity filled and has a kindled nervous system from that.

 

When you are ready, and if you want the vaccine, I think I would get it, if I were you.  I’m going to get it because I don’t want to risk having sedatives in the hospital as remote as that risk is.

 

 

[enrico2910]

1 hour ago, Rosetta said:

If things are improving rather than getting worse, that’s a good sign.  I didn’t mean to scare you. Sorry.  It’s just that sometimes people think reaching zero and feeling good means they don’t have to be careful with their nervous systems.  They have to introduce only tiny amounts of anything they want to try and only try one thing at a time.  Your system will be sensitive for quite a while after zero.  Maybe even few years.  Everyone is different.  Jumping off at 3.4 makes it more likely you will be sensitive.  It always makes me sad to see someone doing well who tries a regular dose of something or gets a cavity filled and has a kindled nervous system from that.

 

When you are ready, and if you want the vaccine, I think I would get it, if I were you.  I’m going to get it because I don’t want to risk having sedatives in the hospital as remote as that risk is.

 

 

 

Yes. I know very well from 2 years tapering experience . I had low blood b12 and I found on my skin methylcobalamin kindled my system so I've opted for an other form.

 

I don't think I've jumped off from 3.4 from one day to another. I believe more that the potency of the drug has degradated over time. Indeed WDs were manageable and I kindled my nervous system with a bad reinstatement... I think. I don't have other explanations. 

 

Today is a bad day. I felt wired, hyperactive from 4pm to 7pm. Unable to do anything. From where all this serotonin comes from? 

 

Thank you ❤️ you're here to support me. I hope this pattern is normal. One day better, on other day bad, etc., and it's going to improve over times.

 

Hope not loosing my job, my girlfriend. I am really demotivated an really really tired of all this hell. I've had just s panic attack when I was put first time on the drug.

 

 

[enrico2910]

13 minutes ago, enrico2910 said:

 

Yes. I know very well from 2 years tapering experience . I had low blood b12 and I found on my skin methylcobalamin kindled my system so I've opted for an other form.

 

I don't think I've jumped off from 3.4 from one day to another. I believe more that the potency of the drug has degradated over time. Indeed WDs were manageable and I kindled my nervous system with a bad reinstatement... I think. I don't have other explanations. 

 

Today is a bad day. I felt wired, hyperactive from 4pm to 7pm. Unable to do anything. From where all this serotonin comes from? 

 

Thank you ❤️ you're here to support me. I hope this pattern is normal. One day better, on other day bad, etc., and it's going to improve over times.

 

Hope not loosing my job, my girlfriend. I am really demotivated an really really tired of all this hell. I've had just s panic attack when I was put first time on the drug.

 

 

 

I have just a question. Kindling from a not well managed reinstatement can even last months, right? I clearly see some tiny improvements, but today let me think that after 20 days my system is far from to be in homeostasis :(.

[Rosetta]

We don’t know if one particular person will have a long recovery.  That’s the problem.  We see people heal quickly from kindling or adverse reactions.  We see people heal slowly.  Some people are kindled again by substances they didn’t know would do that.  Some people are so sensitive that even a food seems to make them feel worse.  
 

At one point, I looked deep into the threads of people suffering for long periods of time.  I found that they had tried something new along the way.  I did not do a scientific analysis, of course, but I found that after a year of struggling they tried some drug or a multivitamin, perhaps.  Then at few months later they tried something else or felt better and had, perhaps, a glass of wine.  I hoped to find a reason for the long recovery.  
 

I was not unbiased as I searched through the threads, but as I looked back on my life, I could see the parallels.   I had windows and waves for years.  After a particularly bad wave, I felt that I was damaged and needed anti-depressants.  I now understand that I kindled myself every few months with something.  Wine is seen as nearly harmless in small quantities.  It is, unless a person has a fragile nervous system.  
 

(continued in next post)

Edited April 23, 2021 by Rosetta
Continued

[Rosetta]

(continued)

I think women can be kindled by their own hormones.  This belief is based on my own experience.  If foods are kindling a person, that is something that is very hard to determine because of the windows and waves nature of recovery.  
 

So, I’m not saying that everyone who takes a long time to heal has been repeatedly kindled by drugs or alcohol.  I do think that people can reduce the length of recovery by being careful.  It’s important to learn about all the different things that might kindle a system.

 

If you were kindled by that one attempt to reinstate, that does not mean that you will have a long recovery.

[enrico2910]

13 hours ago, Rosetta said:

(continued)

I think women can be kindled by their own hormones.  This belief is based on my own experience.  If foods are kindling a person, that is something that is very hard to determine because of the windows and waves nature of recovery.  
 

So, I’m not saying that everyone who takes a long time to heal has been repeatedly kindled by drugs or alcohol.  I do think that people can reduce the length of recovery by being careful.  It’s important to learn about all the different things that might kindle a system.

 

If you were kindled by that one attempt to reinstate, that does not mean that you will have a long recovery.

 

Fair enough. Thank you for your support. In Monday I will start acupuncture. From what I've understood I need to be clear with the practitioner to to touch any point that can kindle my system. I hope that he will not make any error.

 

My system now is hyperactive and needs to be calmed down. 

 

E.

[Rosetta]

True, I believe.  I have read that there is an activating quality to some types of acupuncture and other types will be calming.   Make it clear that you do not want any activating procedures.  Some people feel acupuncture is very useful for this condition.  Good luck.

 

Rosetta

[enrico2910]

1 hour ago, Rosetta said:

True, I believe.  I have read that there is an activating quality to some types of acupuncture and other types will be calming.   Make it clear that you do not want any activating procedures.  Some people feel acupuncture is very useful for this condition.  Good luck.

 

Rosetta

 

Thanks. Don't want to bother you... But I would like to know if this symptom can be related with WDs: time to time (it can last 30 min to 2h) I felt weak in my legs and trembling. I cannot walk as my legs are son weak, then it passes ad it comes and I feel my legs again.

 

[Rosetta]

Yes, I think so.  I had that symptom for months and months.  It was not intermittent until later in my recovery.  It was constant for a long while.  At one point, I could not even stand up long enough to wash my hair in a shower.  So, you are doing well.  Don’t worry.  
 

Absolutely everything about your body could be affected by WD.  The brain has to send hormones and other things to your muscles in order for them to work.  It can’t do it’s job properly if it is destabilized.  So, there are a lot of odd symptoms with regard to the muscles.  Fortunately, the autonomic nervous system is affected less — we should be able to breathe and our hearts beat enough to keep us alive.  (That’s not always true with benzo withdrawal.  It can be dangerous.).
 

AD WD is not dangerous like benzo WD, as far as I know, but a lot of voluntary movement is affected, such as the legs, as well as autonomic muscle action being affected.  I couldn’t drive for months.  I could not react properly.  My muscles did not do what I told them to do.  Many autonomic functions in the muscles do not work properly either  — even those for processing food and allowing for elimination of waste.  They can be slower to react.  Drink a lot of water.  Your body needs that to move your blood around and give your muscles what they need.  Also, this helps to keep your elimination system hydrated.  
 

All this dysfunction heals.  You will be fine.  It’s very uncomfortable.  I hated walking like a little old lady!  That doesn’t happen now.  I’m fine, and I can drive.  I’m in bad shape from years of sitting.  That makes me sad, but I can get back to being strong again.

[enrico2910]

38 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Yes, I think so.  I had that symptom for months and months.  It was not intermittent until later in my recovery.  It was constant for a long while.  At one point, I could not even stand up long enough to wash my hair in a shower.  So, you are doing well.  Don’t worry.  
 

Absolutely everything about your body could be affected by WD.  The brain has to send hormones and other things to your muscles in order for them to work.  It can’t do it’s job properly if it is destabilized.  So, there are a lot of odd symptoms with regard to the muscles.  Fortunately, the autonomic nervous system is affected less — we should be able to breathe and our hearts beat enough to keep us alive.  (That’s not always true with benzo withdrawal.  It can be dangerous.).
 

AD WD is not dangerous like benzo WD, as far as I know, but a lot of voluntary movement is affected, such as the legs, as well as autonomic muscle action being affected.  I couldn’t drive for months.  I could not react properly.  My muscles did not do what I told them to do.  Many autonomic functions in the muscles do not work properly either  — even those for processing food and allowing for elimination of waste.  They can be slower to react.  Drink a lot of water.  Your body needs that to move your blood around and give your muscles what they need.  Also, this helps to keep your elimination system hydrated.  
 

All this dysfunction heals.  You will be fine.  It’s very uncomfortable.  I hated walking like a little old lady!  That doesn’t happen now.  I’m fine, and I can drive.  I’m in bad shape from years of sitting.  That makes me sad, but I can get back to being strong again.

 

Really sorry 😢 you passed through this hell. None deserves to be poisoned by these drugs. If I think about 500 milion of people are taking them, I can bet it will be - soon or later - one of the most controversial issue in our modern society.

 

Psychiatry is more or less a pseudoscience. Just recently neurogenesis and neuroplasticity findings gave to this pseudoscience a new way to see how our brain works, and we're living proof that brain is able to heal itself. Coming back in 2017 I was not able to feel any emotions (80mg of Celexa!), and today I can have goosebumps again when I listen to a beautiful song. 

 

How do you feel right now?

[Rosetta]

I’m ok.  The strong anhedonia comes back sometimes.  I never feel normal for very long, not yet.  I still get very angry suddenly and without warning, but it’s usually when I have been irritable for a few hours or days.  I rarely cry.  It always surprises me when I do.

 

Edit: I do laugh spontaneously now, and it’s happening much more often.  That’s really nice.  

Edited April 24, 2021 by Rosetta
Added last line

[enrico2910]

12 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I’m ok.  The strong anhedonia comes back sometimes.  I never feel normal for very long, not yet.  I still get very angry suddenly and without warning, but it’s usually when I have been irritable for a few hours or days.  I rarely cry.  It always surprises me when I do.

 

Edit: I do laugh spontaneously now, and it’s happening much more often.  That’s really nice.  

 

"Around three to six months after the last dose of antidepressant, akathisia emerges suddenly, often as an overreaction to something seemingly minor"

 

Unfortunately I've read this article https://www.madinamerica.com/2020/08/ssri-withdrawal-elephant/, and I started to cry 😭 with terror in my eyes, imagining I will commit my suicide in 3-6 months from now.

 

I don't know what akathisia is. Maybe I've had it in the past, but I was not able to label it. In November 2020 I was barely able to sleep, with a tension and a strong a Anxiety around my future, my job. It was like having an obsession 24|7. 

 

What is akathisia and why people killed themselves?

 

There is a way to prevent it in 3-6months or I my life will end. I prefer to kill myself, instead of taking again the drug. I don't want do it again.

 

How do you feel today, have you slept?

 

[Rosetta]

Why did I mention that to you?!  I’m sorry.  For me, it has been a very central part of WD, but most people never get it even if they CT large doses.  So, it is not a central part of WD, in general.  It’s very rare.  I’m obsessed with it.  It happens to people when they are taking the drugs, too.
 

Again, it’s very rare, Enrico.  You do not have it, and it’s very, very unlikely you will get it.  In the most common form, it’s the inability to sit still.  The name comes from a Greek word.  It’s the need to constantly pace — always moving about in some way.  You are fine.  Please don’t worry about it.  Having anxiety is not the same thing at all, but people with aka are often misdiagnosed with simple anxiety.

 

You have anxiety, of course.  That is very common for withdrawal.  Worrying about what will happen to you in the future is very common for WD.  
 

I slept.  I just woke up at about 4:00 am.  I’ll go back to sleep in a bit. The dog needed to go out.  He’s 6 1/2 months old, and he’s getting more brave.  He wants to stay out and explore in the dark.  He is a German Shepard/Alaskan Husky.  
 

We have the coyote here - a type of wild dog that is native to the U.S.  They are beautiful, but, sometimes, they attack domestic dogs.  So, I have to be careful.  I love the dog, but I did not need this responsibility right now.  He found a way into the neighbor’s yard that we now have to block with more fence.  He can be fun and silly.  He wants me to chase him.  Ahh.  He’s a lot of extra work for me.  I feed him sweet potatoes — they are a New World type of potato that is orange inside and outside.  He loves them.  

 

 

 

 

[enrico2910]

20 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Why did I mention that to you?!  I’m sorry.  For me, it has been a very central part of WD, but most people never get it even if they CT large doses.  So, it is not a central part of WD, in general.  It’s very rare.  I’m obsessed with it.  It happens to people when they are taking the drugs, too.
 

Again, it’s very rare, Enrico.  You do not have it, and it’s very, very unlikely you will get it.  In the most common form, it’s the inability to sit still.  The name comes from a Greek word.  It’s the need to constantly pace — always moving about in some way.  You are fine.  Please don’t worry about it.  Having anxiety is not the same thing at all, but people with aka are often misdiagnosed with simple anxiety.

 

You have anxiety, of course.  That is very common for withdrawal.  Worrying about what will happen to you in the future is very common for WD.  
 

I slept.  I just woke up at about 4:00 am.  I’ll go back to sleep in a bit. The dog needed to go out.  He’s 6 1/2 months old, and he’s getting more brave.  He wants to stay out and explore in the dark.  He is a German Shepard/Alaskan Husky.  
 

We have the coyote here - a type of wild dog that is native to the U.S.  They are beautiful, but, sometimes, they attack domestic dogs.  So, I have to be careful.  I love the dog, but I did not need this responsibility right now.  He found a way into the neighbor’s yard that we now have to block with more fence.  He can be fun and silly.  He wants me to chase him.  Ahh.  He’s a lot of extra work for me.  I feed him sweet potatoes — they are a New World type of potato that is orange inside and outside.  He loves them.  

 

 

 

 

 

"The duration of total use of all current and past SSRIs is related to long term outcome" --- 10 years as a threshold. And he wrote that is "fairly common". I was on for 3 years, then off 18 months, then on again 6,5 years. In total: 9.5 years. I wants to believe you that it's a rare condition, but now this anxious thought deeply penetrated my mind. On Celexa I've developed hard to manage pure obsession disorder. He wrote that "suddenly".... From one day to another you start to experience akathisia. This is terryfing. One day you feel good, the other day you have akathisia. How this is possible? 

 

This is Dr. Shipko. 8 years ago wrote that SSRI damages the brain for ever. When I read his article, I had the most horrible panic attack in my life. Apparently he changed his idea now. He wrote that everyone got better over time, but maybe he should be advised to use the correct word to not frighten all the people that are already experiencing an horrible situation: "fairly common", "suddenly", "suicide", "disabling", "extreme". 

 

I've read that some degree of discomfort exixsts. From low-mild to moderate, to extreme which is a rare condition.

 

Maybe if in 3-6 months I will develop a moderate form I could be able to handle it and survive. I don't want to kill myself because I made an error in my life. If the doctor had informed me about the risk of this drug, I would have never taken a single dose.  

 

My shitzu dog helped me a lot during WDs. She gently forces me to do stuff. She is a stubborn dog. When she decides we have to play, there is no way to convince her it's not the time. 

 

This night I slept and I've had a lot of vivid dreams. I think this is the most beautiful symptom of WD, as when I was on I practically lost my ability to dream. 

 

There is one stuff that practically reduce to zero my WDs symptoms for a couple of hours: a smoothie. I don't know why. Maybe because it's full of antioxidants and antinflammatories stuff.

 

This is the receipt: 1/2 banana, 1 kiwi 🥝, 1 apple or orange juice, some veggies (they should be super colourfully, broccoli 🥦 for example or Carrot 🥕), 3-4 Pieces of almond or walnut, an abundant spoon of olive oil premium quality. Better than fish oil and magnesium.

 

Have you ever tried?

[Rosetta]

Shipko is trying to warn other doctors.  His heart is in the right place.  He’s very brave and principled.  Yes, he scares us.  We are already stuck in this nightmare.  I think he hoped to keep other people from being here with us.  He does not want to see a big rush of people trying to get off their drugs because of what he has said as a warning.  Many of them may do that in the wrong way.  
 

Shipko sees a lot of suffering up close.  He is one of the few doctors who will see patients in WD.  He has realized that he can’t help us.  He can tell us what to avoid just as SA does.  Not much more.  So, I think he has decided to try to warn people that there are serious consequences to withdrawing from their drugs.  He has no control over the bad advice other doctors give or the fact that many of these drugs are not manufactured in liquid form.  Some of them are in timed release capsules, too.  Several of them have dual effects — on more than one type of transmitter.  Others have a strong effect on the metabolism of benzos so that tapering an AD will effectively cause the person to Change the benzo dose in the body at the same time.
 

WD is a big “can of worms.“   I’m hoping it will bring down pharma’s participation in mental health — someday.

 

You were you on one drug these past few years.  Just be careful what you put in your body, and you should be fine. Worrying about an unlikely event is taking up a lot of your energy.  “Change the channel.”  Do something else when you start to worry.  That helps me.

 

I will try your smoothie!  It sounds lovely!

 

 

 

[enrico2910]

35 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Shipko is trying to warn other doctors.  His heart is in the right place.  He’s very brave and principled.  Yes, he scares us.  We are already stuck in this nightmare.  I think he hoped to keep other people from being here with us.  He does not want to see a big rush of people trying to get off their drugs because of what he has said as a warning.  Many of them may do that in the wrong way.  
 

Shipko sees a lot of suffering up close.  He is one of the few doctors who will see patients in WD.  He has realized that he can’t help us.  He can tell us what to avoid just as SA does.  Not much more.  So, I think he has decided to try to warn people that there are serious consequences to withdrawing from their drugs.  He has no control over the bad advice other doctors give or the fact that many of these drugs are not manufactured in liquid form.  Some of them are in timed release capsules, too.  Several of them have dual effects — on more than one type of transmitter.  Others have a strong effect on the metabolism of benzos so that tapering an AD will effectively cause the person to Change the benzo dose in the body at the same time.
 

WD is a big “can of worms.“   I’m hoping it will bring down pharma’s participation in mental health — someday.

 

You were you on one drug these past few years.  Just be careful what you put in your body, and you should be fine. Worrying about an unlikely event is taking up a lot of your energy.  “Change the channel.”  Do something else when you start to worry.  That helps me.

 

I will try your smoothie!  It sounds lovely!

 

 

 

 

I didn't know him 😭. I've just read his articles and he frightened me a lot. 

 

Thanks to this forum I tapered really carefully and If I was able to quit it's because I followed religiously your tips. Slowly, slowly... I was able in 5 years to taper down from 80mg to zero. 

 

Yes my sister made me make a mistake in my final step. But now I have to wait with hope.

 

Thank you for your support.

 

 

 

 

[Rosetta]

I hope you are doing all right today, Enrico. -Rosetta

[enrico2910]

2 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I hope you are doing all right today, Enrico. -Rosetta

 

Ho Rosetta. Thank you for asking. Yesterday my girlfriend confessed me she doesn't love me anymore. 

 

I felt this pain rebounded. It's like 10x more intense. I was doing fine. Slowly, slowly improving. This night I felt again this strange 🔥 hot sensation on my body. Unable to sleep. All symptoms came back with vengence. 

 

Honestly I don't know I'll be able to handle this. I feel so alone in this moment. 

 

[Rosetta]

Oh, my.  That hot feeling is normal for anyone in that situation.  I’m sorry, Enrico.  That’s very upsetting, I know.  
 

You can handle this.  It is all going to be ok.  How do I know?  I have had the same thing happen as we all have.  It’s probably going to feel worse to you because your nervous system is a mess, but you will be able to handle it.  It will take some time.  There are books about grief that can help.  Can you find one?  Grief is grief whether someone died or not.  It is all the same.  Find a book, ok?  Promise?

[enrico2910]

3 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Oh, my.  That hot feeling is normal for anyone in that situation.  I’m sorry, Enrico.  That’s very upsetting, I know.  
 

You can handle this.  It is all going to be ok.  How do I know?  I have had the same thing happen as we all have.  It’s probably going to feel worse to you because your nervous system is a mess, but you will be able to handle it.  It will take some time.  There are books about grief that can help.  Can you find one?  Grief is grief whether someone died or not.  It is all the same.  Find a book, ok?  Promise?

 

Yes. I promise. Maybe hot flashes are normal, not like someone puts acid in your veins all over the body :(. This sounds a WD symptom. Now it's improving a little bit. Don't know why when I start to repeatedly yawning my nervous system cools down. Wow. It's hard. Feeling are so intense. I am not angry, I am furious and rage. This is the most intense emotion I've ever felt.