OnlyRun: Escitalopram withdrawal

[OnlyRun]

Hi!

 

English is not my native language and I apologise in advance.

 

Started cipralex 20mg in 2013 and i ended the treatment in february 2017 total of 4 years. I did a quick taper of 2 weeks.

Immediate symptoms: Brain zapps/body zapps, crippling anxiety and depression, could not leave bed literally for 2 weeks.

 

For me the biggest problem were the brain zapps/body zapps wich are still ongoing. The zapps lasted every single second for 7 weeks (with an exception will explain later in post) it never stoped it kept me up at night and when I fell asleep these zapps would wake me up. I was sure my life was over as it did not seem to stop and if it would have lasted longer I would most likely have ended it. I am sure allot of you here can rellate to this. For the first time in my life I had become suicidal.

 

So what temporarily cured it? Running did, within 10-15 seconds of starting to run they went away. And immediately came back a few seconds after I stoped running.

So I was running twice a day morning and evening and rest of the day i was walking, all day long i stayed mobile it was the only way I could get some sort of relief from these horrendous zapps.

So my advice for anyone who might experiencing this for temporal relief is to get your pulse and heartrate up and really get going. As I said wile I was running it cured the zapps 100%. For referance I am a long time runner for many years running 80km/50miles a week +.

 

And as fast as these zapps came it suddenly stoped being constant and I got a few an hour, then less and less. They are still here gets worse at evening and less at middle of the day.

Lack of sleep,anxiety and being in a depressed mood triggers it. Also if I keep focusing on these symptoms they get worse. 

By staying active and distracting myself and training for around 2 hours a day keeps these zapps at a minimal. But they come and go and are really unpredictable.

 

Its been 6 month and my brain still does not feel right, in all honesty I feel like I might have gotten some sort of brain damage,at times I can literally feel pain inside my head a wery uncomfortable feeling. Like the brain is waking up after many years of being in a sleep and is struggling to keep up. But I try not to think of that and try to make my life as best as possible living in the moment keep training and hoping all these strange head sensations will go away some day.

 

My doctor and my psychologist have never had any of their patient complain about these symptoms. My psychiatrist whos been in the business for 30 years has never had a single patient mention this to him and he had only heard about these so called brain zapps. And basicly every health proffesionall I have seen about this say the same thing, that it is some sort of stress response and it will pass soon..... 

Lets hope for the best.

 

[AliG]

Hi Only Run. You have come to the right place as most of us are dealing with zaps of some kind- whether it be the head or body.

 

A quick taper of 2 weeks is not a taper - it's more of a cold turkey so it's understandable that you maybe having symptoms.

 

I'm glad you found something that relieved the WD. Running is great in W\D if you can manage it.

 

Your doctor may be in denial as most of us here have had these exact same symptoms. It can take a while for the brain to come back into balance but eventually it does.

So has it been 6 months? There is still possibly time to reinstate a small amount of the drug.

What are your thoughts on that ?

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

Welcome to SA.

 

[OnlyRun]

Thank you for the reply.

 

About reinstating i asked my doctor about it and he did not advice to give me it if one month had past already and since I had such a bad reaction when I quited it.

And ive come such a long way.

 

I wrote this post here in the forum so I can keep an update off the symptoms in the future and if anyone else experiencing something similar to me we can have some sort of community of it and give tips and tricks how to deal with this symptoms as I had no idea about brain zapps existed and no one warned me off this even if i tapered to fast. I had to google to find out myself.

 

 

[AliG]

What do you think about your doctor's advice? I'm sorry you had that experience. 

 

There are many threads here that you may find useful. This is a good one to start with :

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

 

[OnlyRun]

Thank your for the link. I have been lurking in this forum for the last 5 months and reading allot thanks agin !

[OnlyRun]

I mean if I had begged for it he would have given a new subscription for it but he did not advice it at the time. He has later asked me again if I wanted to start it up but I am not interested in any meds anymore.

[AliG]

 

That's a good thing. Ultimately they ( Meds ) are destabilzing . If you read Robert Whittaker's " Anatomy Of An Epidemic" or watch on You - Tube -( just google) - then it becomes very clear as to the ultimate long term outcome. It's not pretty. We are lucky to know the truth and therefore possibly do something about it before it's too late.

I did a cold turkey 3 years ago as I didn't know to taper. It's been rough but I have experienced major improvements in symptoms.

 

Could you please add your drug history? Please put your withdrawal history in your signature

Edited August 5, 2017 by AliG

[OnlyRun]

For how long did you have symptoms? After 3 years are you still suffering from adverse effects? Rough is probably an understatement as I have experienced myself.

 

I will do google search of your recommendation thank you

 

[AliG]

OR. Yes - I'm still struggling although it's less and less. The great thing is that it's going in an upward direction (versus long term disability) which is the ultimate optimistic trajectory for psych drugs.  

[OnlyRun]

I am glad to hear it and further good luck to you

[PoetJester]

Hi OnlyRun

 

the brain zaps are a pretty common side effect of withdrawal.  I had them for about 4 weeks (along with projectile vomiting) when I withdrew from sertraline and olanzapine back in February of 2014.  the brain zaps (and flu like lightheadedness) finally went away, but then I was stuck battling insomnia and poor sleep quality, which I still struggle with 3+ years later.  The poor sleep has led to all kinds of cognitive problems and digestive issues.   Earlier on, I used to feel like I had brain damage upon waking in the morning.  my head felt like I maybe had drank 12 beers the night before or else hit my head hard against a wall, because my sleep was so depressed and fragmented and shallow.   Now, sometimes it feels like the front part of my brain is missing.  like there is nothing up there in my head.   it's horrible, really.   i used to like to read quite a bit (i was even reading novels by Knut Hamsun shortly before wd) , but have only been able to read a couple very short stories now in 3 years.    the poor sleep is also ruining my digestive abilities.  constant bloating and constipation and I never feel hungry anymore.  I was walking 6-8 miles a day earlier on in wd and lost a lot of weight that I had gained on the drugs, but then I developed arthritis in my big toe and had to stop after 6 months.  now the fatigue and depression from all the poor sleep and sleep deprivation has caught up with me and I hardly have the energy to walk much anymore.  I still bike a lot (20 miles/ 35 kms a day), but hardly ever go for walks. 

 

poetjester

[OnlyRun]

Hey PoetJester! I have sympathy for you and can relate to allot of what you are describing here.

 

Sleep has become a big problem here aswell, I am extremely sensitive to sounds like a small sudden sound actually hurts in my body, wery hard to describe and is probably a combination of stress, withdrawel and focusing and thinking about it.

 

I have learned that so much of this is also plain psychological, you become your own enemy by focusing and being a negative pessimist. And the days where I feel better is when I put my focus on something else. And some days its right back to where I started and everything is a problem again and need to start building up my positive view and building up hope that it will get better.

 

Almost every morning I also wake up feeling like utter ****, with this awful strange sensation in my head, like lightheadedness. This is also worse when I am in a anxious mood.

 

I thank your for the post and really hope that you will find some joy in reading again! What sort of biking do you do? Urban, mountain?

 

 

[PoetJester]

Hi OnlyRun

 

yeah, the sleep thing is the killer.  3 1/2 years of bad sleep has worn me down to a shell of my former self.   i have a problem called hypnagogia or hypnagogic hallucinations where i began to dream before i am asleep.  it's caused by depression and insomnia is known to make it worse.  i never had it before i started the pills and didn't have it while on the pills, but now every time i close my eyes and try to sleep, i start seeing strange cartoonish like images before i am even asleep.  it's maddening. i have to pull myself awake no matter how tired i am.    Rupa on this site, also suffers from it.  she calls it brain dreaming. 

 

for biking, i do mountain biking, but on roads.  usually places out in the countryside where i can see some scenery that isn't suburban housing developments.  15-20 kms out and then back.   i don't own a car and public transportation isn't very good over here, so i usually bike everywhere.  i also started hunting golf balls at local golf courses 2 years back as a way to distract myself from the wd symptoms and stay busy and get some exercise.  i go a few times a week on my bike to nearby golf courses or put my bike on the bus to get to farther away courses.  i go walking through the woods and weeds on the courses and find anywhere from 100-250 balls a day and sell what i find online..  

 

anyways,  i hope you see some more improvement with the brain zaps and sleep issues.  a lot of people in wd, have these things called hypnic jerks when just starting to fall asleep, where they have a surge of panic or anxiety just as they begin to fall asleep, that may be what you are dealing with the noise sensitivity.  i noticed as i get depressed from the ongoing nature of wd, that noises startle me more than usual when i try to rest.  i guess, our sense of ease or comfort has been taking away after having been on and then stopping the pills and it makes us more sensitive to sound/light/etc..

 

poetjester

[OnlyRun]

PoetJester

 

3 1/2 years thats such a long time with bad sleep. Have found anything that makes it better at times? Or is it always the same?

 

Smart idea to be collecting golf balls, I actually live near a course and use to do this as a kid. Its so fun and rewarding when you find some

I dont have any hypnic jerks its just a general sensitivity to sounds when I try to relax I get startled so fast.

Thank you for taking the time to write with me here.

 

 

[OnlyRun]

Is there anyone else on this forum who has been in a similar situasion with similar symptoms who has fully healed or atleast made life more enjoyable after medicine discontinuation?

 

Right now the only way to make it through the day is exercise or by staying in motion and when the night/evening comes I have no relief from these electric like feelings.

its not just brain zapps but a feeling or sensation of these minor zapps in the whole body constant.

 

Its really tough..

[Skeeter]

OnlyRun,

Time is the great healer.  If you have issue with noise when falling asleep, may I suggest SILICONE ear plugs?  The look like white blobs, and they totally block out sound, and can even be washed if you hit them with soap and hot water if you wash them in the same position they were molded in your ear canal, so that you do not push any natural debris from your ears into the ear plugs, then lay them out to dry while still in that shape, when dry, you can again shape them however you like.

 

Or, if you can afford it, try noise cancelling headphones if you sleep on your back (as I do).  It digitally removes the noises (or REALLY reduces them), and when you wish, you can attach via cord or Bluetooth depending on the model you buy (or my old one does it both ways), I actually use my noise cancelling headphones quietly running Netflix shows to sleep, and it works for me, but noise is not a trigger anymore, but when it did trigger me, these headphones were heaven sent!!! 

 

It is probably the best thing you can do to stay moving when you feel agitated like you do,  it gets some exercise in, and it helps you tolerate a hard to deal with symptom.  When I had interdose withdrawal from Xanax, it was the only way I survived, and it was BRUTAL, I was up every 3 hours or so, and had to exercise for a set amount of time.  If I did too much, it was so much worse.

 

Healing time is also different depending on if you went cold turkey, or if you tapered.  Tapering and not being left with much if any signs or symptoms after that helps with healing greatly, and you tend to feel better so much more quickly.

 

I know you do not like the idea of reinstatement, but if your doctor was willing to supply the pills, we could teach you ho to reinstate a tiny, tiny bit of the medication, so small that if you had any sort of a bad reaction, you could stop, and the dose being so low means they would go away pretty quickly.  It is the only cure we know to possibly years of feeling like you do now.  We have had people reinstate a tiny bit up to a year after stopping the drug.  You would have to buy a little bit of equipment, but if it can save you feeling like this for a few years like Poetjester, wouldn't you want to try? It is up to you how to tell the doctor, but you could tell him you would like to try it again, but not at the full dose, ask for 10mg pills, maybe?  Talk to us before if you want an exact dose to ask for.  We may suggest only a mg or less to begin with, just as an example of escitalopram (which is 2-4 times stronger than any other antidepressant!!).  The people that believe in tiny doses working are the ones that tried reinstatement (aka RI), or have patients that have, so they know that it works second hand, and stopped suffering but it does not work for everyone.  I think starting at a tiny dose, then going up a tiny bit more after trying the same daily dose for  couple of weeks, for example, can rid you of the awful WD issues you deal with daily.  I am on 20mg of Lexapro/escitalopram myself right now and  it will take me  3-4 years to come of slowly and comfortably from that dose.  Most peole that stop Lexapro slowly only feel a tiny bit tired during tapering, and for those that reinstate, we advise you what do we suggest, but it is YOUR decision how much to take, but please do not exceed what we suggest, because you will send your body into overdrive, and it can INCREASE your suffering (say if you took a full 10mg or 20mg dose), but the people that try RI and it works are grateful, and we suggest that you sit for several months (or longer at the low dose you find comfortable, then we tell you how our site suggests to slowly taper).  Please do not confuse how you felt after you stopped the drug with how you may feel with a tiny reinstatement, which you are totally in control of, though some do react, as I do want to be totally open, and I may not have hit that hard enough, but that is why tiny RI's, esp after 6 mos off are all we will suggest, that way f it does not go well, you can stop right away.

 

Best wishes,

Skeeter

Edited September 7, 2017 by Skeeter
Spelling

[OnlyRun]

Hello Skeeter

 

Thank your for writing such a in depth guidance 

 

About the earplugs this works as I have tried it and use it occasionally as its not so good to use it to often I heard. Also like to have my hearing in the night so safety issues.

 

About the exercise I totally agree that symptoms can get worse when its overdone, I frequently overdo it and symptoms get hugely amplified. But sometimes I just need that imediate relief that a hard workout will give. But then the body after a wile gets wery tired and its hard to deal with withdrawel with such a tired body.

 

I am so scared of reinstating any kind of these meds as I literally fear for my own life.. It was so hard to get to where I am now, I am better then I was a a month ago so there is progress but wery slow progress. I will never put myself in that situation to have to go trough tose first withdrawel months again even if someone paid me 100million dollars, I would not do it LOL.

 

I have learned that anti depressants are incredible dangerous for certain individuals and should be taken wery seriously by doctors and the companys that make these medicines.

And when I toled my doctor about the side effects I got when I quited he looked at me like he did not believe me. The wery same doctor I have used for years suddenly turned his back on me and gave me a cold shoulder, incredible. I also understand the connection between suicide and anti depressant use, and Imo no one should use these kind of meds maybe only in the extreme depressed individual but never for what its most often prescribed for General anxity, social anxiety etc.

 

I am sorry for the rant, but I am alitle bit pissed off at the whole situasion.

 

And I thank you wery much for all the guidance and the help you are offering me with a reinstation of the medicine. And I understand that it is most likely the most smart thing to do, but I am just to scared to have to go through that acute withdrawel again.

 

Kind regards.

[AliG]

OR.We totally understand. It's ultimately up to you .

 

Skeeter and I both want to save you pain. It's questionable at this stage.

 

How are you now?  

[OnlyRun]

Hey AliG

 

Yes I know , and thank you for the concern. 

 

Its up and down, I am not depressed or anything. Its the physical symptoms that has been bothering me the most. Some days theres allot of these zapps and some days there wery little. Hopefully this will go away soon, the more I am able to stay calm about it and not stress over it the less it is or less noticeable. I am stable mentally.

 

I might have not been clear enough about it, but the worst part are over long ago, those first few month. Now its just the lingering zapp feelins.

[OnlyRun]

Update

 

I have cut down the exercise to 30min 3-4 days a week and I honestly feel way better.. Seems like I overdid the activity and my body was tired and not enough energy to handle some withdrawel symptoms. Thanks @Skeeter

 

[Skeeter]

OR,

I am so pleased that helped you out a bit.  Any little bit less of suffering is an amazing thing, right? When I overdid it, I found that I wished I had not exercised at all, but that was me.

 

I know 100% about what you mean about that initial awful withdrawal, and never wanting to go through that again.  I respect your wish to not reinstate, just wanted to give you all of the info I knew.  And FYI, for anyone else reading, no, reinstatement is NOT like that first awful month after stopping.  Not even close.  We advise you to start such a ow dose that we have not seen it happen to that severity.  Not info for you to use at this point OR, at this point, just advising the masses. SO many people read the threads here to learn, it is really amazing!

 

How are you doing now?  I am off for the moment, but will be back to check soon, I just ca across you thread looing at my old posts, and wondered if you were feeling better!

 

Be well!

Skeeter

 

 

[OnlyRun]

Hey Skeeter!

 

I was  exercising way to much or to hard it looks like and it made me allot worse, a lesson learned. 

 

I am now running and biking moderately, 20-30min every other day and my withdrawel symptoms are nearly gone.

If I train harder they will get worse again and if I completely stop exercising I am close to 100% symptom free.

We can only guess to why this is the case, there is no study or litterature on this that I can find besides other personal experiences like yours.

 

Its feels damn good to feel somewhat healthy again its been some long 6 months.

So if anyone reading this sharing similar symptoms, please read through my posts and try different things and experiment with what makes your feel better or worse.

 

I really apreciate you asking Skeeter and hope you are doing well !

[OnlyRun]

Update

 

Its now been around 8months since I ended the medicine, and I have not had any brain-body zaps for over a month even when I have allot of anxiety and depressive state think its safe to say they are gone!

 

I still have this strange feeling inside my head nearly impossible to describe the feeling, but its like a constant pain. It comes and goes and anxiety cause or make it worse. If I am able to totally relax myself or do something to put my mind on something else I cant feel it. This is accompanied by sound sensitivity. My psychiatrist says its all anxiety that cause it since it goes away when I am not anxious. 

 

So far trying to stay calm not think about this all, exercising and have something to fill my day with minimise all wd symptoms. I know many here will dissagree with me but I have the feeling that allot of the wd symptoms we have is psychological, atleast in my case. I think it can be compared alitle bit to psychosomatic pain (psychological pain) who knows. But at all cost try to have an optimistic view of life and the future, and no matter the outcome try to accept your current situasion and think that this is only temporarely. Dont give in always keep trying, again and again, and when you feel its impossible you need to convince yourself that its all possible and you will be better.

 

psychiatric medicines are dangerous and the original reason I started the meds in the first place got worse after beeing on them. I wish there was more focus on this in the medical field.

[OnlyRun]

Update

 

I will be reinstating the drug 

 

I will keep a journal here about the outcome.

[littleball]

On 6/10/2017 at 5:42 PM, OnlyRun said:

I will be reinstating the drug 

 

I will keep a journal here about the outcome.

I was reading passionately your story but then I got this plot twist! OnlyRun, what happened to you? How are you doing? Fine, I hope

[OnlyRun]

Hello

 

Plot twist indeed ! There was a reason why I started with meds in the first place wich is back and hard to deal with. I still have not reinstated, not sure if I will or not.

 

I dont have any withdrawel anymore,  some minor things but nothing serious hope it will stay this way.

[littleball]

Maybe you can try serious CBT! Have you tried that before?

[bubble]

3 hours ago, OnlyRun said:

wich is back and hard to deal with.

 

In the first stage, withdrawal symptoms are mostly physical in nature (such as brain zaps). Those usually resolve and are replaced by cognitive, mental and emotional ones which are then confused for a 'relapse'. 

 

Your symptoms are far more likely to be withdrawal symptoms than relapse.  You can learn more about withdrawal symptoms at these links:
What is withdrawal syndrome
Is it withdrawal or relpase or something else?
 

20 mg is a high dose of Escitalopram to stop taking practically cold turkey after your brain had been remodeled around it for 4 years (your brain physically changed to accommodate for the presence of the drug!). Contrary to what you believed when you first came here no amount of willpower can beat the withdrawal symptoms, no activity or a supplement. The only known way to alleviate withdrawal symptoms and prevent the onset of a very painful and long protracted withdrawal syndrome is reinstating a very small 0.5 to 1 mg of the drug:

 

Also contrary to our ideas about psychotropic drug withdrawal the worst is not behind us after a few months. The worst very often comes then and we see lots of people who can't sleep, can't eat, are bed ridden and suicidal. And this takes years. It sounds scary but it is not our fault that these drugs are so dangerous. And honestly I would rather have someone scared than see them down the road in a horrible state when they would like to take any drug but their system is in complete overdrive and nothing works any more. 

 

Reinstating is not a sign of weakness or a defeat. It is a smart thing to do acknowledging the nature of this process. It is not like street drugs.

 

What are the symptoms you are having that lead you to believe that your 'original illness' is back?

 

Maybe this explanation will help you understand what kind of process you are going through:

 

On 8/30/2011 at 9:28 PM, Rhiannon said:

A lot of people, including healthcare practitioners; in fact, I guess, most people-- are operating from entirely the wrong paradigm, or way of thinking, about these meds. They're thinking of them like aspirin--as something that has an effect when it's in your system, and then when it gets out of your system the effect goes away.

 

That's not what happens with medications that alter neurotransmitter function, we are learning. What happens when you change the chemistry of the brain is, the brain adjusts its chemistry and structure to try to return to homeostasis, or biochemical and functional balance. It tries to restabilize the chemistry. For example: SSRI antidepressants work as "serotonin reuptake inhibitors." That is, they cause serotonin to remain in the space between neurons, rather than being taken back up into the cells to be re-used, like it would be in a normal healthy nondrugged brain. So the brain, which wants to re-establish normal signaling and function, adapts to the higher level of serotonin between neurons (in the "synapse", the space between neurons where signals get passed along).

 

It does this by removing serotonin receptors, so that the signal is reduced and changed to something closer to normal. It also decreases the amount of serotonin it produces overall. To do that, genes have to be turned on and off; new proteins have to be made; whole cascades of chemical reactions have to be changed, which means turning on and off OTHER genes; cells are destroyed, new cells are made; in other words, a complex physiologic remodeling takes place. This takes place over time. The brain does not grow and change rapidly. This is a vast oversimplification of the amount of adaptation that takes place in the brain when we change its normal chemistry, but that's the principle.

 

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

With multiple drugs and a history of drug changes and cold turkeys, all of this becomes even more complicated. And if a person is started on these kinds of drugs at an early age before the brain has ever completely established normal mature functioning--well, it can't be good. (All of which is why I recommend an extremely slow taper particularly to anyone with a multiple drug history, a history of many years on meds, a history of past cold turkeys or frequent med changes, and a history of being put on drugs at a young age.)

 

This isn't intended to scare people, but hopefully to give you some idea of what's happening, and to help you respect and understand the process so you can work with it; ALSO, because you are likely to encounter many, many people who still believe these drugs work kind of like aspirin, or a glass of wine, and all you need to do is stop and get it out of your system. Now you can explain to them that no, getting it out of your system is not the issue; the issue is, you need to regrow or at least remodel your brain. This is a long, slow, very poorly understood process, and it needs to be respected.

 

[OnlyRun]

17 hours ago, littleball said:

Maybe you can try serious CBT! Have you tried that before?

 

Yes I have been doing this 1-2 times a week for the last 9 years.

 

@bubble

 

Thanks for the long read bubble, as I am bipolar I have long periods with depression, been struggling with this since I was wery young.

Wile I was on anti depressant I did not have these depressions this miracle drug basicly cured it. Thats why I decided to stop, cause I thought that I was cured... 

 

I know my mind and body so well to tell that the old depression is back again, with the old mood swings I have had since i was a child. It has nothing to do with withdrawel anymore, I am back to my old self. And I am now realising how well the medicine worked for me. 

[bubble]

We actually don't find these diagnostic labels meaningful or useful. It's better to describe the experiences you have in your own words.

 

Why were you prescribed Olanzapine? It's a heavy duty drug... Did you take any drugs before that?

 

You might be interested in reading JanCarol's story on how she undiagnosed herself from 'bipolar' which she also firmly believed in.

 

Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker is a very interesting although disturbing reading on how once temporary states became life-long and debilitating conditions after psychotropic drugs began to be used to 'treat' them.

[OnlyRun]

I thank you for the input I really apreciate it, but I find no meaning in further discussion of this topic from me anymore.

 

I hope you understand

[bubble]

Of course. Wishing you well. 

 

There are a lot of people who read through our threads trying to make sense of their experience. So I had to add an alternative view of your particular situation for their benefit.

Edited November 6, 2017 by bubble
added additional explanation

[OnlyRun]

Update

 

Feel great, no withdrawel symptoms, no depression last few month. I will never reinstate antidepressants again.

 

Thanks for all the help I wish you all the best!