Soup: starting Lexapro taper

[Soup]

I did not have these symptoms for the last two years until I took the antibiotics . I was functional . I did have them when I came off the benzo and lexapro in 2017 . 

[ChessieCat]

15 minutes ago, Soup said:

I did not have these symptoms for the last two years until I took the antibiotics

 

Well it certainly looks like the antibiotics are the culprit.  It is good that you have benchmark, otherwise it would be difficult to know if it was Wellbutrin side effects or the antibiotics.

 

And I think you know what my suggestion would be.  Hold.  I realise it feels like forever.  To help overcome the feeling of not being in control and not getting anywhere, you can try to play a trick on your brain (as in the mental/thinking part of you).  Make the decision to hold for another month, set a specific date, and then re-assess after that.  During that month try to not think about tapering etc and try to relax and let you body/nervous system get some reprieve. 

 

Worrying only adds stress.  When we are stressed the brain thinks the body is in danger so it diverts its attention to dealing with the threat in order to keep us alive and recovery/healing processes are put on hold.

[Soup]

I have asked a lot of people this question in the last while and this is by far the best answer I have had . Although very difficult I will do this and look for any positive changes to help myself see some recovery . I do notice that the cold patches only come every other day now . I think it would probably be disastrous if I started a taper now that my system is in such bad shape I can’t imagine a taper would help? Thank you very very much . Healing must be happening as Some things have gone and I haven’t got worse but really what do I know ……Disappointing this happened as I was getting ready to taper but not like I have a choice to wait now ……ugggg . Thank you ❤️

[ChessieCat]

I compare recovery to having a cold/flu.  I am currently getting over some virus at the moment which isn't covid and today is day 9 and I'm still not 100%, but I'm definitely feeling less fuzzy headed than I did yesterday, thankfully. 

 

When we have it we feel awful and it can be difficult to see improvement because we just feel awful.  But if we compare how we feel on, eg, day 4 or 5 to how we felt on day 2 then there is usually something that has improved, eg I can breathe a bit easier, or I'm not as achy, but I still might have a fuzzy head and a cough and still feel awful, but things have changed.

 

Compare how you feel now to how you felt at your worst, not how you felt at your best or how you want to feel.

 

And you have already got through 4.5 months.  When I got to the end of my taper I extended it by a month and went down to a very low dose because I didn't want to mess up so close to the end.  I was diagnosed with diabetes 2 weeks before I was due to be off and ended up cutting out sugar and most carbs (it worked - 3 months and I reversed my diabetes, no drugs for cholesterol or diabetes).  I didn't want to confuse the issue by having 2 variables and then not knowing if any symptoms post 0mg were because of changing my diet or from getting off the AD.

 

And when you do decide to taper my suggestion would be to only make a small test reduction, perhaps only 1%.  This might give you an idea if your nervous system can handle reducing the drug.  Making a test reduction can also lessen any stress that have about reducing.  Stress symptoms can be similar to withdrawal symptoms and make it hard to know if they are from the reduction of the stress.

[Soup]

Yes all

good advice. Unfortunately my taper will  be complicated as I take an XL Wellbutrin and my country does not sell any other kind . Trying to see if a compounding pharmacy can help me . They say they can but I don’t think they really understand how little I need to go down by . One of the reasons I did not come off before . I need to find someone else on here who has tapered of the xl brand only …..I hope your virus clears up quickly for you 

[ChessieCat]

According to post #1 of this topic you can cut up the XL Wellbutrin tablets but they become immediate release.

 

tips-for-tapering-off-wellbutrin-sr-xr-xl-zyban-buproprion

 

From what I can see in that post IR is taken 3x a day.

 

How did you taper off klonopin?  Did you weigh the powder? 

 

Even though that post says that you cannot make a liquid from the XL tablets, and that is the issue that I had with Pristiq because it just went gluggy.  I discovered right the end of my taper that I could make a liquid from the contents of a compounded capsule.  This is because the tablet had been ground to powder.  It might be worth trying to grind a tablet and see if you can make a liquid with it.  That way, if it worked, you could get compounded capsules made in a "large" dose and then use smaller dose capsules to make a liquid.  If found that I had to shake the water + powder mix and then leave for the "froth and bubbles" to go (overnight was easiest).

 

Anyway, that is something that you can be investigating.  Find out what the smallest dose is that they can provide as a compounded capsule.  Perhaps getting 100mg capsules and some other small doses to make up the dose you need.  I had to get 100 of each dose at a time (to keep the costs low) so I tailored my taper to the doses I could get, not to the 10% reduction amount (but I kept it under 10%).  Sometimes I only held for 3 weeks because I had made a smaller reduction.  I found it helpful to use an Excel spreadsheet to work out what I needed.

 

I found a post here where I talk about the capsule sizes right at the start of my taper.  Ironically I was fighting a virus back then!

 

This shows the reductions I made and how long I held each one for:

 

Chessiecat's full tapering program

 

7 minutes ago, Soup said:

I hope your virus clears up quickly for you

 

Thanks.  So do I, obviously.  I'm seeing improvement and today I am thinking a lot more clearly than I was.

[Soup]

I used water titration to come off the benzo which was pretty easy to do actually . Just dissolved the k in 300 ml of water took 1 ml out a day .  Rain fog is so thick right now not sure how to figure this out . Thank you for the info . Was your pristiq extended release ? 

[ChessieCat]

Pristiq tablets are formulated with a special matrix or glue and if I put small pieces in water it just went gluggy.  From Post #1 of the tips for Wellbutrin topic:

 

On 7/17/2011 at 6:28 AM, Altostrata said:

You can only make a liquid from immediate-release buproprion (the other types contain binders that will not dissolve well)

 

7 minutes ago, Soup said:

 Rain fog is so thick right now not sure how to figure this out .

 

Don't you just love typos and how sometimes they end up being funny like this one?  That is rain and fog.  Ha ha.

 

Yes it can be hard to figure out when you feel like this.  There is a lot of information in that Post #1.  It would be even harder if you are reading it on a small device.  You might find it helpful to view it on a desktop computer and/or print it out.

 

It would seem that it is possible to cut and weigh the XL/XR tablets but you will need to take your dose 3x a day.

 

But as I said before you could try crushing a portion up into powder and seeing what happens in water.  If it doesn't glug but doesn't "dissolve" then you might need to use Ora Plus or another suspension method.  There are ideas for alternatives in the make tablets/capsules into liquid topic near the end.

 

We really have to think outside the (medication) box!!!

 

 

 

[Soup]

Thank you so much . I am so afraid and just talking to someone who really gets it and not judge mental helps . ❤️

[ChessieCat]

You are welcome.  I know what you mean.  I've been chatting via PM with another member who is "helping" me work out plumbing/plumber issues.  They helped me earlier this year with making a decision about lawn mowers.  I realise that both of these are not directly related to tapering/withdrawal, but the member has provided support for me and even if they hadn't, just being able to tell someone about it and write down and get my thoughts in order has been very helpful.

[Soup]

I know I am preaching to the choir here but this is incredibly hard and I am worn down so much .I was pretty functional last year and gearing up for my last taper.  I just was trying so hard to get better and feel I am worse than ever 😭 these antibiotics have done such a number on me and I really could use some hope that others have recovered from this type of setback .

[ChessieCat]

You are feeling battle weary.  And when we are still in the middle of the battle it feels like it will never end.

 

Instead of thinking back on last year, remind yourself of what has improved recently.  It might only be small, but any improvement, however small, is heading in the right direction.

 

It is better to compare how you feel now to how you felt at your worse, rather than to compare yourself to how you felt at your best or how you want to feel.

[Soup]

I tried to look up others who have recovered from antibiotic setbacks but was having some difficulty ( prob my wonky brain ) are there people on here who have had this happen ? Thank you for your kind words …..

[ChessieCat]

I don't have time to sift through these results.

 

I did a search for antibiotics in the Success Story forum.  You might be able to find some members who have written a success story who also had an issue with antibiotics during their recovery:
 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q=antibiotics

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by ChessieCat

[Soup]

I am really really having a hard time not obsessing with if the antibiotics have set me off or if I am in tolerance of the Wellbutrin ? Trying so hard to give myself time to heal from the antibiotics but terrified it is the Wellbutrin causing it and I am just sitting here doing nothing .So confused and really just lamenting my ordeal . I know no one can really tell

me but what does tolerance or poop out of an ad usually look like ? I am scared and really want to get better . 

[ChessieCat]

12 hours ago, Soup said:

or if I am in tolerance of the Wellbutrin ?

...

but what does tolerance or poop out of an ad usually look like ?

 

Tolerance, poop out, tachyphylaxis comes on gradually.  I had this when I was taking citalopram.  Basically it feels like the drug is not working like it had before.  Whereas before if there was a stressor I was able to handle it, when I had several life stressors happen I ended up having a melt down at my daughter's wedding reception.  It felt like I wasn't taking an AD at all.  I felt so bad taking the drug that I decided that if I felt that bad taking it I wasn't going to bother continuing to take it.  Once I stopped it I felt the best I had for a long time for a couple of months, which is similar to what happens to people tapering out of poop out, they feel better when they reduce and then gradually start to feel worse again.  However, I ended up with delayed withdrawal, and I ended up on Pristiq.

 

If a person goes to the doctor saying that they feel that their drug is no longer working the doctor may increase the dose, which will make the person feel better but then the same thing happens again and the dose may be increased and/or another drug added or a drug switch made.

[Jennings]

Soup,

 

I don't comment much but I saw your thread and even though I don't know 100% I'm going to say it's most likely the antibiotics.  There are others that have had setbacks from them after stabilizing somewhat.  When this happens we question everything.  

 

I wish you the best.

[Soup]

@jennings thank you for your response very much . Have others stabilized again after the antibiotics that you have seen ? 

[Soup]

@ChessieCati was quite functional till the uti and antibiotics so I guess that is what caused it but I am still concerned with a thought that the antibiotics basically cold turkeys me off the Wellbutrin ( eventhough I never stopped taking it ) I am so tired of my brain and it’s constant nattering at me …….. 

[Jennings]

Check out Aeroman's Success Story:

 

 

[Soup]

@Jennings thank you sharing that . My husband says that it must be the antibiotics because some of my symptoms have gone so if it was the Wellbutrin it would of just stayed or got worse ? I don’t know anymore ……

[Soup]

Last night I did my usual bedtime routine . Soothing calm meditations , dark room cool room . When I fell asleep I was shook awake ( literally 5 mins later ) so much I thought there had been a n earthquake . The husband and dogs did not move at all so pretty sure  it was me !!!!!!! Now I have had a bit of vibration when waking up from sleep these last months and nightmares  but this really scared me 😭 what the heck is happening? Is this a sign of worsening do others have this type of thing ? I have tons of other symptoms that are just always there but this seemed to be so much worse than the other night vibrations. Scared to go to sleep

tonight …..

[Soup]

Another question . When people use a compounding pharmacy do they just get the straight drug put into capsules or can the pharmacy  make smaller amounts of XL versions ? I guess I should really ask the pharmacy but was wondering if others had this done. 

[ChessieCat]

My compounded added slow release formula but I still needed to take it twice a day.

 

getting-compound-custom-dosages-at-compounding-pharmacies-us-uk-canada-and-elsewhere

 

Edited June 20, 2022 by ChessieCat

[Soup]

Thank you @ChessieCat❤️

[Carmie]

Hi Soup, 

 

I hope you managed to get some sleep, and you didn’t get nightmares again. I don’t think I’ve ever been shaken awake, but my body tends to jerk before I go to sleep. It could be the effects of the meds, though I can’t remember if I had this before the meds. 
 

Take care🧡

[Soup]

Thank you @Carmie yes I don’t think I have ever been shaken like that in my life . Maybe it was a jerk but felt so huge and scary . I mean I have lots of scary things but had not had that before . The fun never stops ugggg….  

[Soup]

Ground hog day starts again …..sigh . Get up knowing the day will have no joy and I just have to get through it . DR/DP , andehonia , wicked brain fog , fear etc. So tired and worn out not sure what to do anymore . Everybody says wait till you feel better to start taper but I could be sitting here for years . Just feeling immensely sorry for myself and really really feel trapped ….      What the heck did those antibiotics do ? One positive I did manage some sleep last night of some kind of substance 

[Carmie]

22 hours ago, Soup said:

Thank you @Carmie yes I don’t think I have ever been shaken like that in my life . Maybe it was a jerk but felt so huge and scary . I mean I have lots of scary things but had not had that before . The fun never stops ugggg….  

Hi Soup, 

 

Yes, we can certainly get all sorts of new weird symptoms. Once I got a really severe burning mouth that lasted for quite a while, but eventually went away. 
 

Hope you cope okay with another ground hog day, as you say. I’ve had to have extremely long holds when my waves wouldn’t settle. Our brain just has to try and get into some kind of equilibrium again. I’ve been tapering for many, many years, and I will still be on these meds for many, many years to come. We can’t rush the process, our brains are in charge. 
 

I know it’s hard, but all we can do is take a day at a time and distract ourselves when things get bad. 
 

By the way, I’m glad you got some sleep tonight🤗

[Soup]

Do people find when you start to get some better sleep things are settling down more ? I have had two nights of what I would call decent sleep ( 5 hours uninterrupted and felt somewhat restful ?) 

[Soup]

Do some people not have the waves and window healing pattern ? Do some Just little by little get better ? 

[Soup]

So felt like I was going over the edge today 😭 I had some gut issues ( gas ) and started to freak out but not like I was doing it but my brain …..not sure how to explain it but so scared 😭Kind words always accepted 

[ChessieCat]

neuro-emotions

 

Getting off psychiatric drugs can sometimes cause all sorts of different things.  The brain is incredibly complex and is always trying to regain homeostasis, changing and fine tuning things.

 

I love the Rubik's cube analogy in this video.  It really helped me to accept symptoms and not get too worried about them.  I would remind myself that it was all part of the process of getting off the drug.

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

It's a good idea to learn and use non drug techniques.  When we feel a sensation in our body and we don't understand what it is then we can get scared.  This anxiety can then cause more symptoms, and if we continue being scared, instead of using techniques to calm ourselves, we can end up having a full on panic attack (I've been there, done that) which is of course stressful on our bodies and then can delay the recovery that the brain is trying to do because it has been diverted to safe us from a perceived threat:

 

From https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/anxiety-self-help/

 

 

 

 

 

[Soup]

@ChessieCatthank you for sharing .my body has gone into a real shut down …like I can actually not feel my skin very well so actually do not have a lot of sensations . My ability to go to the bathroom has greatly diminished so getting gas today was a bit of a scary time . Have you heard of other people with skin they can’t feel well ? 

[ChessieCat]

There are many existing topics on SA where members discuss their various symptoms.  You can search for them using the site search function, or use an internet search engine and add site:survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.  Searching for the term skin (using the second method) found this topic:

 

paresthesia-pins-needles-numbness-tingling-burning-sensations-aka-neuropathy

 

You can also look at this list, which shows the wide variety of possible symptoms.  Remember that the brain's job is to look after the whole of the body.

 

#47 - numbness in this list:

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

[Soup]

@ChessieCat thank you ❤️