ClaraBelle: depression, anxiety, memory loss

[ClaraBelle]

Just began seeing alternative medicine practitioner (DO/Psychologist) in the hopes of finding natural products to replace meds with. Several specialty blood tests taken; waiting for lab results. Cannot see that doc again for 2 months. Need something to help the withdrawal process in the meantime. Don't trust long term psychiatrist. Next appt. on 8/19. Took early retirement in October. Attending classes. Finals this week. Husband laid off in June. I hope to return to work soon. Lots of stress and anxiety. Lost 2nd flash drive last week since May. Lost 2 pairs of prescription glasses this year. Home very cluttered. Very little motivation. Can't think straight. Lost and confused. What forum would be best to post in?

Edited August 7, 2017 by ClaraBelle
added more info

[scallywag]

ClaraBelle -- Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants (SA)

 

Decreasing psychiatric medications too quickly can trigger uncomfortable and sometimes painful symptoms.  Please read:

Before you begin tapering -- what you need to know.

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Alternative medical practitioners are often equally ignorant of the potential for severe withdrawal symptoms as medical doctors. They don't understand how our CNS and brain plasticity is affected and often assume that we are free and clear once the drug is "out of the system" after several weeks.   I'll try to explain why:

Each time you started taking each medication -- fluoxetine (Prozac) clonazepam (Klonopin) and nefazodone(Serzone), your CNS (central nervous system) made changes to adapt to the presence of the drug.  When you stop taking the medications or decrease dose, your CNS has to undo all those changes. The reason we suggest a slow taper -- decreasing one drug at a time and by no more than 10% per month -- is to give your CNS time to make the changes gradually.  The idea is to "sneak" the drug away slowly enough that the CNS isn't destabilized.  Here are some other explanations of that process:

How your brain responds to psychiatric drugs - aka "Brain remodeling"

Youtube video, 4 minutes: Healing from antidepressants

 

Natural products are unlikely to prevent withdrawal symptoms or ease them when they occur, because the problem isn't an issue of toxicity -- a common target for natural therapies. The only supplements we suggest that people try -- and try cautiously -- are omega-3 fatty acids and/or magnesium. Pick one or the other; start at a low dose and slowly increase until you find the right dose for you.

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil).

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker.

 

Forgetfulness, absent-mindedness, and "cog fog" are probably withdrawal symptoms. For others' comments about this, please read

Brain fog, blank mind, memory problems

 

In your signature you say that you began tapering off Prozac on July 22. 

1. What dose were you on before you decreased?
2. What dose are you taking now?
3. Did you go from the dose in question 1 to that in question 2 in a single step? If not, what were the intermediate dose(s) and when did you start taking them?

What dose of Klonopin are you taking? If you are taking more than one dose per day, please list the times you take it and how many mg you take at each time.

 

What dose of Serzone are you taking? At what time of day do you take it?

 

This is YOUR introduction topic -- the place for you to ask questions, record symptoms, share your progress, and connect with other members of the SA community. I hope you'll find the information in the SA forums helpful for your situation. I'm sorry that you are in the position that you need the information, but am glad that you found us.

[ClaraBelle]

HI scallywag!

 

Thanks much for the extremely helpful information.  I'm in the middle of finals week and am finding it extremely difficult to think straight right now. I'll do the best I can to answer your questions:

 

6/21/17: Prozac, 20 mg capsule, AM.; Adipex-P, 1/2 of a 37.5 tablet, AM; Serzone, 150 mg tablet, PM; Klonopin, 0.5 mg tablet, PM

week of 7/23/17: Started titrating off the Prozac; took 20 mg capsule every other day

week of 7/30/17: Took 20 mg of Prozac three times that week

week of 8/6/17: Was planning on taking Prozac twice this week

week of 8/13/17: Was planning on taking Prozac once next week and then stopping altogether

8/3/17: Saw an alternative medicine practitioner, psychologist/DO, supposedly an "expert" in psychotropic drugs, vitamins/supplements and how they interact with each other. He took some very expensive tests, told me that he couldn't manage my meds, and that he would see me in two months when the test results came in. Very disappointed. I thought I had found someone to help me with it all.   

8/4/17: Had a meltdown; extremely depressed; rapid heart beat (which is ongoing on the Adipex P and especially on the Adipex P combined with Prozac).

8/7/17: Spoke to trusted pharmacist. (My psychiatrist, who I don't trust anymore, is out of town). Pharmacist told me to stop the Adipex P immediately due to the risk of heart failure and continue taking the Prozac daily for depression until I can see my psychiatrist next week or until I can find a new psychiatrist.

8/8/17: Stopped the Adipex-P, started back on the Prozac, 20 mg AM, will take 1 pill daily until advised otherwise. 

8/8/17: Saw GP/DO and ran all of this by him. He had a lot of nutrition advice for me but knows very little about psych drugs or supplements. Said that everything could be resolved through diet. Suspects that I have ADD. Mentioned 3 drugs that I should run by my psychiatrist that he thinks might help me with appetite control as well as concentration issues. I don't want to add another drug to the mix without stopping something else first.

 

Where does that leave me? Extremely confused! 

 

I'm sure stopping the Adipex P cold turkey today will have definite side effects.I don't know if or when I should titrate off of anything else, stay on drugs for awhile, see my psychiatrist next week, find a new psychiatrist (and if so, who?), start one of the supplements you recommended (Magnesium?), or wait for the holistic dr. to tell me in two months what supplements he thinks I should take based on my test results and see how I do on those before titrating off of anything else.

 

Any thoughts you have would be much appreciated. 

 

Sincerely, 

 

CB

[ClaraBelle]

Day 2 off Adipex-P. Can't stop crying. Stress and anxiety through the roof. I have a class final at 1:00 today. I am taking no supplements except occasionally I take Garden of Plenty powder mixed with a fiber supplement, 1/2 cup of apple juice and water. Here are the ingredients: http://www.drbo.com/garden-of-plenty   It's too expensive to take daily. I'm not on any other supplements. I see my psychiatrist next Tuesday but I don't trust him. Does this site make recommendations for trustworthy psychiatrists who can help with titration, etc.? Right now, I need to get through Adipex withdrawal and stress. My husband was laid off in June and is struggling with his job search. I was doing a lot to help him but I just don't have the brain power to do it anymore. I don't know what's going to happen with that.

 

What's the one thing I could take right now while coming off of Adipex P that might help? Since I'm not coming off Prozac anymore, would your recommendation still be to take either the fish oil or the magnesium? What else? Should I take that Garden of Plenty product as often as I can? What would help? I'm lost and confused. That should have been my user name. I'm feeling pretty desperate right now. Thanks much, CB

[mammaP]

Hi ClaraBelle, As Scallywag  explained, you are tapering prozac too fast. Sadly some doctors recommend this type of taper then when withdrawal starts they say it is a relapse of mental illness and we need to take the drugs for life. You need to go back to every day dosing with prozac. You haven't had a chance to stabilise after reinstating them following the previous taper.

 Can I ask you to clarify your signature, it states that you reinstated Prozac, serxone, klonopin  and started Adipex-P on 6/21/2016, should that read 2017?

 

 How did you feel before you reinstated?

 

I can imagine you felt very ill with withdrawal. How did you feel after reinstating?

 

Often lower doses are needed because people become sensitive to the drugs after being off for a while. Side effects can be more noticable than they were before.

 

Adipex-P (phentermine) is a stimulant similar to amphetamines which also needs tapering to avoid withdrawal. It is a controlled drug and should only be prescribed for a few weeks. Dependence happens quickly as it does with benzodiazepines like klonopin.  It is also combined with prozac.   Starting that along with reinstating prozac would be quite a high dose of prozac after being off for 4 months.

 

The best thing to do now would be to take them all to stabilise then taper the adipex-P first. With this drug you will have withdrawal from both the stimulant AND the SSRI. 

If ypu have only been taking it for a few weeks you should be able to taper faster than the 10% we usually recommend, and the prozac could cover the withdrawal from the prozac element.  I will need to do some research on the best way to get the lower doses. I would strongly advise against replacing any of the drugs. Your GP was honest that he doesn't know much about the drugs so really doesn't know that it would be detrimental to try and replace them.  

 

 

Can you include the Adipex-P in your signature, it will also help if you can include your daily doses and times so we can see at a glance what you are taking every day. 

 

As for supplements, there isn't anything that can replace the drug qou are withdrawing from, except another drug of the same type which just means another drug to taper. 

Most of the supplements simply create very expensive urine and some make withdrawal worse. Save your money and spend it on the best fresh food you can afford. 

I would definitely try the fish oil and magnesium, they help lots of us here and are not too expensive. A good probiotic can help with gut issues. 

 

 

 

[ClaraBelle]

Hi MammaP, thanks much for your quick reply. I updated my signature to include a more thorough history. I think it will answer most of your questions. I stopped Adipex P cold turkey on 8/8/17 due to rapid heartbeat and went back to daily Prozac. Heartbeat is steady now but stress, anxiety, and depression very strong.

 

I might have said too much in my signature. At the bottom of my signature, I asked a moderator to let me know if I did.

 

Very trusted and experienced geriatric pharmacist told me that fish oil wouldn't help me but that magnesium was a good idea and to start with 200 mg and work my way up to 400. My long term gyn (who orders my yearly labs as well as periodic bone scans) told me to take 600 mg of calcium citrate and at least one to two thousand units of Vitamin D each day. Oy! So many differing opinions. I'm not taking anything but "Garden of Plenty" vitamin/supplement periodically (link provided in one of my posts in this thread). I think I will add the magnesium next.

 

Gyn gave me referrals to 3 different psychiatrists since I'm looking to make a change - one in particular who she really likes and who lives closest to me. I left a phone message tonight.

 

To answer your question about the Prozac, I was just about to start my 3rd week of titration when I went back on it. I was nuts while I was titrating and after re-instating it daily on 8/8/17, feel just as nuts having stopped the Adipex-P cold turkey the same day. Two doctors, including psych, told me I wasn't on Adipex-P long enough to have withdrawals from it and the geriatric pharmacist said that the risks of heart failure warranted an immediate-stop. I did not have palpitations yesterday or today; doesn't mean I won't from any of the other drugs I take because sometimes I have them at night after taking Klonopin and Serzone, but not as bad as when I was on the Adipex-P. Adipex-P, in spite of all it's side effects, helped me so much with appetite control and weight loss. I know I will miss it and I have just begun the hard journey of trying to live without it again. You are right, I think, when you said this, "As for supplements, there isn't anything that can replace the drug you are withdrawing from, except another drug of the same type..." Tonight, the geriatric pharmacist basically told me the same thing.

 

Sincerely, CB 

P.S. For some reason, when I hit the "submit reply" button at the bottom of this page it won't let me send this message. I will save it in a Word document and try submitting it later tonight or tomorrow. 

[ClaraBelle]

Good Afternoon,

 

I am going to see my psychiatrist tonight and I plan to ask him to help me titrate off the three drugs I am still on. However, my DSS counselor suspects I have ADD. If my psych thinks I do, I would be adding another drug. Should I open that can of worms, do you think, or can ADD be managed with alternative methods, i.e. supplements, counseling, etc.  My home is very cluttered and I throw paperwork and clothing all over the desk/floor. I have a hard time managing it all. Please advise.

 

Thanks much, 

 

CB

[mammaP]

43 minutes ago, ClaraBelle said:

 My home is very cluttered and I throw paperwork and clothing all over the desk/floor. I have a hard time managing it all. Please advise.

You sound just like me!  I can't see my bedroom floor! Every surface ends up cluttered and if I didn't have friends come in to help me out I would be knee deep in clutter. I am a messy person, scatterbrained and disorganised even though I try hard not to be, There is no way on this earth does that warrant drugs!  Drugs for ADD are amphetamins and you have just given up a stimulant. Your nervous system is dysregulated with all the drug changes. You started 4 drugs after being off for 4 months and when people have been off for a while they become sensitised and usually need much lower doses to ease withdrawal. Then stopped Adipex P.  AND started tapering prozac before reinstating again. (Thank you for clarifying that you were only taking adipex P for a few weeks, I was concerned that you had been taking it for much longer) .  The very last thing you need right now is another drug to mix things up even more. 

 

I understand that you trust the pharmacist but they are trained by drug companies, as are doctors. Some don't keep up with new research. My pharmacist told me that tramadol is not addictive and I could stop C/T. When I collect my prescription from her it comes from the controlled drugs cabinet, it has a high street value because addicts will pay a lot for it yet whe still thinks it is not addictive because that is what the drugs companies said 15 years ago.  The sad thing is that we pick up the pieces after doctors prescribe multiple drugs and have no idea how they interact, about tapering safely or know anything about withdrawal.  Right now you need to hold, not change anything at all so that you can stabilise. This will take some time but adding more drugs will not help, we see this all the time and I have been there for decades before learning about all this here. We have topics with links to studies and research. Papers from doctors and psychitrists who have come to see that their own prescribing was harming patients. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/forum/16-from-journals-and-scientific-sources/

 

Fish oil has been proven to be beneficial for the brain, and lots of us here find it helps a lot. I certainly feel it if I miss a few days when I go away! 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/?view=findpost&p=100596&hl=magnesium

 

We are here to help people to safely and successfully raper off psychotropic drugs and we have all had to learn about the drugs on order to do that successfully. Very few of us have learned anything from those who profit from them. We have learned to research very carefully before taking anything. YOu do not have to take something jusrt because your doctor/gyn/psychiatrist recommend it. You can say no! I say no now but used to trust them all and ended up on huge cocktails that made me so sick I was bedridden. Now I do research for myself and they respect me for it.