TheWayBack: Hoping to stabilize soon

[TheWayBack]

Hi everybody

 

I'd like to introduce myself after being an avid reader for years of this forum. I'm being dead honest here. So here it goes:

 

Three years ago I accidentally ingested a major overdose from hallucinogenics. It was purely an accident and I ended up in the ER. I survived and came home after 12 hours. The day after was OK and so was the week. I was happy to be alive. But precisely one week later my first panic attack occurred and it went hand in hand with anxiety all day, every day. Didn't know what to do; who to call. Every PD doesn't know anything about the exact situation I got myself in. I contacted I well known specialist in psychedelics in America. He recommended a SSRI for my situation. After a month self medicating on Alprazolam and alcohol, I managed to go to a doctor that could prescribe Escitalopram to me. 8 weeks after the incident and 2 weeks on escitalopram I got my life back.

 

I started on 10mg escitalopram and upped to 20mg. I felt bad in the morning from the medication but after a few hours I felt OK again. After a month of 3 I went gradually down to 10mg. No problems at all. Stayed there for a half a year. Tapered over the course of another half year to 0. Withdrawal or symptoms came back after 6-8 weeks or so, unbearable. Tried to get through it but the anxiety was way to intense. Got back on 10mg and felt after a couple of very bad days great again at day 8-9..

 

I discovered this forum in the meantime and read up on all the information. I was going to taper properly. Over the course of the last 2 years I went from 10mg to 1.6mg. I bought myself a mg scale and made smaller and smaller doses. Everything went very well until minus 2 mg. The scale couldn't weight it properly and the measurements werent as accurate as before. The first problems arised: a small panic attack, some days clenching my teeth more then usual etc... Due to a calibration error of the scale my dose went from 1.6mg to 1.9-2mg for two weeks. To exacerbate the situation I discovered I was using sometimes old pills (more then 7 years old) for my measurements. 

 

Trying to fix the situation, I set my dosage again to 1.7mg. Anxiety and problems for 5 days. Then I tried updosing back to 2mg using the liquid form now (1 drop is 1mg). Hoping to achieve a new stable plateau. Anxiety came back full force. Could't cope with anything and was introvert and tense the whole time. I'm no ***** but it felt like hell minus 20%. I take about 0.5mg-0.75mg alprazolam when needed.

 

Now at the moment we are at day 6 of the 2mg . The last couple of days were no laughing matter. I wake up slightly anxious, take my 2mg escitalopram and anxiety comes back full force, take 0.25-0.5mg alprazolam to calm down. Doesn't help as much as I would like, but my wife gets me through the day. Most days between 15h and 18h it gets better. Slightly anxious but not necessary in need for alprazolam.

 

Now I don't know what to do. I was stable for a year on less than 3mg. I can't go to work feeling like this, can't concentrate or remember things. My vacation period is almost over (two weeks to go).

 

This forum mentions alot about reinstating when withdrawal kicks in and updosing when tapering went to fast. But what about low messed up doses for a couple of weeks?

 

TLDR; Tapered from 10mg escitalopram to 1.6mg over the course of 2 years without the help of benzo's. Went very well with the occasionally bad day. Recently messed up accidentally with measurements and went up with old pills to 1.9mg. Can't seem to get stable. Anxiety all around. Tried to get stable for 5 days on 1.6mg. Didn't work. Tried to get stable for 6 days now on 2mg. Doesn't seem to work. Every day is horror and agony. Should I go back up to 3mg, 5mg or 10mg escitalopram? How long should I typically wait? Is the anxiety bound to return with even more force when updosing?

 

Love

 

K

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by mammaP
Added name to title

[mammaP]

Hi K, welcome to SA.  It is great that you tapered so carefully after you found us, it is good to know that people are being helped by reading the information we share. 

It is such a shame that this has happened when you have tapered so carefully. You are suffering  from side effects of a too high dose and probably rebound anxiety from the benzo. How long have you taken the benzo every day? They cause dependency very quickly and would be best avoided if you haven't been taking them very long. 

They make you feel better initially but when they wear off they cause anxiety and it quickly becomes a vicious cycle.

I think I would go down to 1.8, half way between, definitely not an increase. The brain adjusts to the lower doses and can no longer tolerate higher doses. 

  With lexapro it takes 7-10 days to get a steady concentration n the blood and will take a while to stabilise but things will settle down.  Are you taking liquid from the pharmacy? 

 

Could you copy TLDR into your signature for us? This link will take you directly to the signature box. 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/settings/signature/

 

 

 

 

[TheWayBack]

Hi mammaP

 

Thank you for your reply so soon! It feels nice to speak with other people that were in the same situation or are very experienced with this.

 

I can't say I'm yet comfortable to reduce the dosage again so soon if I can expect the steady concentration coming the following days. How long would you expect me to feel so bad and anxious from the steady 2mg after 2-3 weeks of 30% dosages shuffles? So the increased anxiety after dosing in the morning could be to the updose. That would seem logical. But what about the anxiety that I get in the morning before dosing (but that is not as intense). I never had any anxiety the last year, not even when around 2mg for months. I'm just afraid that I need to take them forever in a higher dosage, with obvious problems in the long run, like poopout (or what was the term again)?

 

I get the liquid from the pharmacy 20mg/ml in the Netherlands. The liquid version is not available in Belgium unfortunately. I put the 2 drops in a glass and add water. But this is not perfect because the solubility of escitalopram oxalate is not good in water, so it tends to stick to the bottom of the glass. A couple of refills with water, stirring and scratching with a spoon are needed to get it all. I've read:

 

Quote

 

Escitalopram oxalate occurs as a fine, white to slightly-yellow powder and is freely soluble in methanol and dimethyl sulfoxide (DMSO), soluble in isotonic saline solution, sparingly soluble in water and ethanol, slightly soluble in ethyl acetate, and insoluble in heptane.

 

 

So I'd better make a isotonic saline solution to dilute further if I'm stable for the coming months. Anybody experience with this? I have to dilute because the only concentration available is 20mg/ml. And I'm paranoid about accuracy when it comes to this, especially after the last weeks.

 

About the benzo's:

I've only had short periods on alprazolam. Took them three years ago for 4 months, but was always careful with my dosages. Then 2 years no benzo's or most other GABA triggering substances, even avoiding camomile. I drink almost no alcohol (two drinks a month). A couple of times when tapering I used L-Theanine, with pretty good, although mild, results.

 

Now I'm using alprazolam for 8 days. Max dose for a day was 1mg, normal day dosage 0.5mg (0.25mg in the morning, 0.25mg in the evening). So I would not expect rebound anxiety from alprazolam just yet. I take it in the morning, feel it when the effect stops in the afternoon and no anxiety comes in afterwards. Just like you said, I'll be careful with benzo's. I hate to take them and don't like them, but the anxiety and panic is just so overpowering sometimes, that it's the only way to maintain sanity. I hope I can say I won't need them anymore the next weeks. With the dosages of alprazolam I'm taking, could I stop cold turkey after two weeks?

 

I did smoke cannabis in the evening when I felt good (the last two weeks obviously not, but the last year I did feel good almost every day), it always gave me a good nights rest and a relaxing morning. But cannabis is now certainly out of the picture for the foreseeable weeks or months because it exacerbates anxiety.

 

I'm going to fix my signature this evening or tomorrow with a better one than my TLDR. Promise.

 

 

 

 

 

[Shep]

21 hours ago, TheWayBack said:

About the benzo's:

I've only had short periods on alprazolam. Took them three years ago for 4 months, but was always careful with my dosages. Then 2 years no benzo's or most other GABA triggering substances, even avoiding camomile. I drink almost no alcohol (two drinks a month). A couple of times when tapering I used L-Theanine, with pretty good, although mild, results.

 

Now I'm using alprazolam for 8 days. Max dose for a day was 1mg, normal day dosage 0.5mg (0.25mg in the morning, 0.25mg in the evening). So I would not expect rebound anxiety from alprazolam just yet. I take it in the morning, feel it when the effect stops in the afternoon and no anxiety comes in afterwards. Just like you said, I'll be careful with benzo's. I hate to take them and don't like them, but the anxiety and panic is just so overpowering sometimes, that it's the only way to maintain sanity. I hope I can say I won't need them anymore the next weeks. With the dosages of alprazolam I'm taking, could I stop cold turkey after two weeks?

 

Hi, TheWayBack.

 

Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants from me, too.

 

Benzos only work for 2 - 4 weeks and then the only reason we continue to take them is to stave off withdrawal. And since this is your second time using a benzo, you are setting yourself up for limbic kindling, meaning subsequent tapers tend to be much worse than previous tapers with benzos. 

 

You can become dependent on a benzo in 2 - 4 weeks. And as I just mentioned, they only work for that length of time and then you are caught in a trap - you're on a drug that you may be dependent on AND isn't going to help you. You'll need to stay on it to keep from going into withdrawal. 

 

My advice would be to stop now rather than risk dependency. I know this is a very difficult time, but are there any non-drug coping skills that could help your anxiety?

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

The mindfulness and acceptance links can be very good for helping with anxiety. And there are some great breathing and calming techniques to help. Please check out these links:

 

4-7-8 Breathing: Health Benefits & Demonstration - article and video (8 minutes)

 

The Breathing Space by Jon Kabat Zinn - video (4 minutes)

 

There's also a great technique called "change the channel" that can be very helpful:

 

Change the channel" -- dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

We do have a members-only benzo area with a lot of great information on benzos. Please have a read over the articles "sticked" with a green pin icon that are at the top of the screen:

 

Members-only benzo forum

 

Again, I would urge you not to go back on benzos. If stopping cold turkey is too much right now, perhaps a very rapid 25% reduction every day until you are completely off will work. This will get you off them before the 2 week window where you may very well become dependent.

 

After you have a chance to read over these links and try the non-drug coping techniques, please let us know your thoughts. Just learning to slow down your breathing can really help in stopping your body from spiraling into compete panic. And learning to "change the channel" can give your mind another path to take away from sheer panic. 

 

Wishing you much success in your journey off these drugs. 

[TheWayBack]

Hi Shep

 

Thanks for replying!

 

Yesterday was a very bad day for me. 6th day after the updose. Got up with 0.25mg alprazolam. Still horrible anxiety until 17h, 3h OK, drank one Gin-Tonic, terrible panic attack around 21h. Took 0.5mg, didn't help very well, got me drowsy, but panic stayed. I found that very strange! So much sedation, but panic didn't stop! It did got me to sleep eventually. Thank god.

 

Today, the 7th day after the updose, I felt VERY restless when I woke, felt a little bit less anxious though. Did something different this time. I took no alprazolam but instead got up asap, ate a little bit, showered, took my bicycle and went for a ride as fast as I could until I was tired (never was a sportive type, so 30min later). Didn't feel better right after the ride, but after calming down on the couch I felt a bit more relaxed. Then did some chores in the garden with my wife until noon. Anxiety always present, but not much. In the afternoon we went to some places together on bicycle. Anxiety never left completely but I felt much better while doing it.

 

It's now in the evening and it's 8pm. Still anxious, but i'll try very hard to not take alprazolam. And if I need to, I'll start tapering by taking only 0.25mg for the night. So that I can quit in two days.

 

I now hope that tomorrow is even a better day then today. Didn't need to take alprazolam during the day and the anxiety wasn't as intense as yesterday.

 

Lesson learned this week: updosing even a small amount (from 1.6mg to 2mg) can cause serious anxiety and panic for multiple days. And no alcohol when changing dosages apparently. Without the support and information from this forum and my wife who reads these posts also, I would have updosed to 10mg yesterday for sure. I couldn't see another way out. Lets see what the rest of the week holds for me.

 

Shep, I do have some experience with meditation and breathing exercises and have used it alot when tapering, but now in the hardest moments it just doesn't work for me. But I'll try out some of the links you provided when I reach rock bottom again.

 

Thank you all so much!

 

 

 

 

 

[Shep]

18 hours ago, TheWayBack said:

Still horrible anxiety until 17h, 3h OK, drank one Gin-Tonic, terrible panic attack around 21h. Took 0.5mg, didn't help very well, got me drowsy, but panic stayed. I found that very strange! So much sedation, but panic didn't stop! It did got me to sleep eventually. Thank god.

 

Hi, TheWayBack.

 

Thank you for your thorough update.

 

I would avoid alcohol until you are completely off your drugs and well into the healing phase. Alcohol hits GABA, so it's effect is very similar to benzos. Alcohol also effects the central nervous system (CNS). During withdrawal, the CNS becomes extremely destabilized. We become acutely sensitive to even small reductions in these drugs, so adding in alcohol is adding fuel to the fire. Please nurture your CNS and help it heal.

 

18 hours ago, TheWayBack said:

Did something different this time. I took no alprazolam but instead got up asap, ate a little bit, showered, took my bicycle and went for a ride as fast as I could until I was tired (never was a sportive type, so 30min later). Didn't feel better right after the ride, but after calming down on the couch I felt a bit more relaxed. Then did some chores in the garden with my wife until noon. Anxiety always present, but not much. In the afternoon we went to some places together on bicycle. Anxiety never left completely but I felt much better while doing it.

 

This is a GREAT non-drug coping strategy. Some people find that exercising too hard can ramp up symptoms, but if you are able to do it and it works, this is a great way of releasing anxiety.

 

I do a 45 minute cardio workout most mornings and find that the rest of my day goes so much better. But I'm more than 2 years off all drugs, and I wasn't able to exercise at all for many months, so if you find that strenuous exercise is hurting more than helping, it's okay to simply go for gentle walks. During the worst part of my withdrawal, walks really helped a lot and as I healed, I added cardio back in. Many of us find that a common experience. I'm glad you're testing out exercise as a coping method.

 

18 hours ago, TheWayBack said:

Shep, I do have some experience with meditation and breathing exercises and have used it alot when tapering, but now in the hardest moments it just doesn't work for me. But I'll try out some of the links you provided when I reach rock bottom again.

 

 

Please don't wait until you hit rock bottom. These exercises are practice and it's best to keep working on them throughout ALL stages of withdrawal. And they will serve you well after you heal, too. 

 

Try doing the 4-7-8 Breathing exercise twice a day and the Jon Kabat-Zinn Breathing Space video twice a day and see if this doesn't become something you can learn to do, even while stressed. Breathing exercises are powerful tools for dealing with anxiety, but they work best after you've taken the time to practice them and bring them into your daily life. After awhile, you'll find that as soon as even the faintest amount of anxiety hits you, you already are breathing deeply and separating the bodily sensations of anxiety from becoming stressing thoughts, spiraling you into a panic attack.

 

Quote

It's now in the evening and it's 8pm. Still anxious, but i'll try very hard to not take alprazolam. And if I need to, I'll start tapering by taking only 0.25mg for the night. So that I can quit in two days.

 

This sounds like an excellent plan. 

 

Please keep updating. 

Edited August 10, 2017 by Shep

[TheWayBack]

Hello again everybody

 

Two days have passed. Didn't take any alprazolam since my last post.

 

Wednesday evening I drank three cups of chamomile, lavender and lemon balm sleep tea that evening. But I still got a panic attack. I went to the bedroom and did breathing exercises for quite a while. It took me around half an hour before the panic began to subside. I just kept refocussing on the air that went by my upper lip while breathing (basic Vi Passana exercise). And I was re-energised beyond measure (beyond measure in these circumstances) because I had won against the panic . I regained belief in my own abilities to fight the fear! Thanks for reiterating again and again on the importance of breath-work! Going to sleep was difficult, but again, I think after an hour of breathing exercises, I must have been fallen asleep. I just kept refocussing on the breath, like every 5 seconds or so, because the mind is so weak at the moment. But it still worked.

 

Yesterday I woke up feeling very different. I should mention I set my alarm clock every day around 7:00am, take the meds and try to get some more sleep. The heavy anti-depressant drug feeling was there in the morning. Beats anxiety and fear for now! I was very drugged and drowsy but the anxiety didn't have the force to break through. Chilled on the couch with the wife and did some chores in the afternoon. Restlessness and slight anxiety present but very manageable. Afterwards I got an almost manic feeling. EXTREMELY happy and laughing with everything, like an overload on the 5HT2A receptors, very partydrug like. Very nice, but I knew that it was just the anti-depressant levelling out. A couple of hours later, slightly anxious again. In the evening after a couple cups of the sleep-tea it went pretty good. Even watched a horror-series to see if I could cope. I could. Very nice. The best day of the last 10. Sleep was difficult again, but still managed to get some. I was way more relaxed than the day before while laying in bed.

 

I prepared my dose of escitalopram different yesterday for the coming days. Instead of putting the drops in a glass of water in the evening to use in the morning, I prepared some sugar cubes. Two drops on each cube, nothing leaked through and dried up nice. Excellent method for the future. Just hope that it keeps going as good as now because I always had doubts with the drops sinking to the bottom, leaving a residue and thus getting an uneven dose. I will keep using the sugarcubes for now.

 

Today was more stable than yesterday. Felt restless most of the day, anxiety was at a minimum. Very manageable. Went riding with to bicycle again with the wife. Had fun. Went to her family for a visit. Total bike time: 1h. When back at home I felt tired and chilled together on the couch with some nice peaceful music. Day 9 of the updose and its going good.

 

I'll keep you guys posted! Thanks again so much.

 

 

[mammaP]

What a lovely update! I am so glad that you got control of the anxiety yourself,. you are stronger thatn you thought you were. 

[TheWayBack]

Short update: First moment of a 'normal' feeling lovely indeed.

[TheWayBack]

Day 10 was very OK until the evening. During the day I was very agitated. In the evening the anxiety crept back pretty heavy, but I didn't take any alprazolam. I did drink three cups of sleep-tea but that didn't do much. Breathing exercises didn't work as good as I hoped. Tried very hard though. Falling asleep was very difficult, and I woke again an hour later around 3.30u.

 

Day 11. Took my 2mg escitalopram then (3.30u), and it was a little bit better. Less anxious, but thoughts were very intense. No more sleep for me. VERY restless like the 7th day of the updose. Could be due to the fact that my dosage of escitalopram is a bit higher now, due to the sugar cubes I prepared instead of the preparation of the drops in water that left a residue.

 

Went for a ride with the bike like the 7th day. Maybe some improvement, but still VERY restless and tired. Not a whole lot anxiety, but the worrying thoughts won't stop. Today is the celebration dinner of my dads 70th birthday with the whole family. This is going to be difficult. Maybe the distraction will do me some good, but hopefully I don't get any panic attacks there.

 

I can now only hope for the same day after as the 8th day was. No worse days anymore please...

 

 

 

 

[TheWayBack]

Day 11 afternoon: Extremely restless, then some short manic episodes, crying spells and restlessness afterwards. Could get sleep due to heart that keeps pumping wildly. It took me 1mg Alprazolam to get me to sleep finally after been very long awake. Bad day.

 

Day 12: Very good day until the evening. Anxiety crept back in. No alprazolam, only chamomille tea. Loads.

 

Day 13: Woke up with a lot of anxiety, let's see how the day goes. Can't believe it won't stabilize!

[TheWayBack]

Day 13: Anxiety subsides around noon. Slept yesterday until noon because of the alprazolam and the exhaustion (but took my pill around 7am), so didn't noticed it. The typical morning anxiety I guess. My wife seems to remember that I had it when I first started escitalopram years ago. Lets hope so.

[TheWayBack]

Day 13: Last update for a couple of days; we are going on a holiday.

 

Today the day began with anxiety, but afterwards I was stable for a couple of hours around noon. Anxiety, restlessness and racing thoughts came back in the afternoon. And that while my wife and I were riding on the bicycle... In the late afternoon a little bit of mania together with anxiety. Very strange and uncomfortable. In the evening - at this moment - again very restless and a pounding heart. No panic though. Breathing exercises or meditation don't work. It's like it's very physical and not really "in the head". I'm going to drink some chamomile tea and hope I get some sleep for the journey tomorrow.

 

Had such a good day yesterday, and today back to misery The intense body-restlessness is a little bit less than the day before yesterday though. But unfortunately smiling and being happy is still not possible today.

 

Contacted my Psydoc today with email. Let's see what his thoughts are, tomorrow or the day after. Would he advise me going back to 1.6mg or staying on the 2mg, or - hopefully not - updose way up. He is not a very conservative type. Has some patients on 1mg escitalopram and has a preference for small doses Abilify for lots of patients with depression, stress and anxiety.

 

Wish me luck for the next days, my friends.

 

Signing out,

 

TheWayBack

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheWayBack]

Still going to reply while on holiday because there is a pattern showing in my days.

 

Day 14: Actually quite the same as yesterday except the evening was more relaxed. So anxiety and restlessness in the morning after taking the pill, more relaxed around noon, mania in the afternoon and worn out and hyperreactive in the evening. Not as tense as yesterday in the evening though.

 

Should I still stay on this dosage? The anxiety after taking the pill and the mania both seem to be of a dosage too high? Any thoughts? This was day 6 of the sugarcube dosage of 2mg escitalopram.

 

Day 15: Woke up with a lot of anxiety again. Lets see what today holds.

 

Kind regards

 

 

[mammaP]

How have you been taking alprazolam? Can you list the days that you have taken it and the doses?  

You could reduce slightly, not too much at once, maybe  1.8 . It could take a few days to notice a difference. 

I hope  this is not spoiling your holiday too much.

 

[TheWayBack]

I've taken alprazolam 4 days ago and it was 1mg before sleep. That's all. I didn't take any more alprazolam in the last 8 days.

[TheWayBack]

Day 15: Anxiety and restlessness in the morning. Stayed until 17.00u! Went better then, crying spells, better moments in the evening, OK at night.

 

Day 16: Anxiety in the morning. Alot. But no restlessness. Had to take 0.25mg alprazolam to cope, was 5 days ago since last time. Very fuzzy and unhappy until noon (now). Don't know what to do. Anxiety is much higher today then yesterday. Should I up my dose? Stabilizing isn't around the corner it seems.

 

 

[TheWayBack]

Day 16: A lot of anxiety in the morning, after the 0.25mg alprazolam still anxious and very fuzzy, not good at all. But around 12.30u a lot better. Day went pretty good, no mania, no more anxiety until the evening. Maybe some quick rebound anxiety in the afternoon due to the alprazolam in the morning, but minor. Lots of uncertainty and doubt during the day, but nothing that can be attributed to the meds I think, but because of the past miserable days. Let's hope this is a turning point. Most stable day in a week if you count from noon this day. The most 'normal' day at least. 3 more days until work commences again...

 

 

 

 

[TheWayBack]

Day 17: Morning was decent for a change. No anxiety in the morning was great, however a few hours later anxiety kicks back in full force. The afternoon was very unstable, racing thoughts, anxiety, panic... In the evening VERY restless... and unhappy...

 

I don't know if I can continue on this path, if the coming days aren't any better, maybe I should go back to 5mg or 10mg, I just don't know anymore. This is not good for my marriage, my happiness and my work

 

 

[TheWayBack]

Day 18: Woke up with alot of anxiety, still no future prospects; took 0.25mg alprazolam, didn't help enough. Took the heavy decision to go back to 5mg escitalopram. Two hours later I am very restless and anxious. Hopefully I feel normal again soon.

 

 

[TheWayBack]

Day 18 began difficult and had lots of trouble with anxiety and panic. Took 0.5mg alprazolam total. The end of the day was very different, I calmed down quite a bit and did the discovery of Dr Claire Weekes. I am going to try this out! Float with the panic, feel it, but do not be impressed by it.

 

Day 19 began with anxiety and tried Weekes advice. Went sooooo much better, could lay pretty comfortable in bed. Let's see how this unfolds.

 

Link to the important video:

 

[Shep]

Hi, TheWayBack.

 

Thanks for documenting this so carefully.

 

I am very concerned about your alprazolam use. As I posted earlier, you can become dependent on benzos in as little as 2 - 4 weeks, and you're quickly approaching this timeframe. Even PRN (as needed) use can cause dependency because it's not just about the days you take it, but also the half-life.  The half-life of alprazolam is 6 - 12 hours. So at the 36 hour mark, you still may have as much as 12.5% in your bloodstream. 

 

In this post, you wrote you'd been using alprazolam for 8 days. That was on August 8. And then I counted 4 more times where you mentioned using it this month. So that's 12 days out of 21 days in August. At this point, you are dangerously approaching the state where you could become dependent. 

 

I'm so glad you're trying the Claire Weekes method. Do you think you might be able to let go of the benzo now and rely solely on Weekes and others like her to help you cope at this point? 

 

Here is one I used a lot during the acute phase:

 

Guided Meditation for Detachment From Over-Thinking (Anxiety / OCD / Depression) - video 42 minutes

 

I listened to so many guided meditations during the acute phase, so much so, when the looping thoughts started, my brain was actually looping guided meditations! So I really didn't have a lot of trouble with looping thoughts. I was completely relaxed at that point. 

 

Please let us know what you think about stopping the benzo at this point and using the stellar skills you're learning from Weekes and any others you'll find on that mindful path.

[TheWayBack]

Hi Shep

 

Thank you so much for replying! This is something like a interactive diary for me, with loads of help and tips.

 

About the dependence on alprazolam, I'm afraid you're right. It has begun. Today I managed to cope quite good until the afternoon (around the time of my last 0.25mg alprazolam yesterday). Anxiety came full force and nothing worked. Had a very heavy feeling, almost couldn't talk or think and was very anxious. Took 0.08mg alprazolam (a 6th of a 0.5mg pill) sublingually and most of the symptoms went away in 20 minutes. Afterwards I used the link you provided to calm down even more. I'm trying to use this dosage to taper (0.08mg) whenever it becomes very difficult. Tomorrow is my first work-day, so I hope my third 5mg escitalopram dose is not giving me more problems than today.

 

Today was pretty manageable in comparison with yesterday. One can only hope.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheWayBack]

Day 19 Roundup: The day began good (probably due to the alprazolam the previous day), in the afternoon had to take 0.08mg alprazolam to counter withdrawal, in the evening again 0.08mg. Total +- 0.16mg alprazolam. Still little bit anxious, but slept good until 3.30am.

 

Day 20: Woke anxious and in panic 3.30u, but could cope a little bit for a couple hours. No more sleep. Around 5am took my third dose of 5mg alprazolam. Around 6am took 0.06mg alprazolam to begin the day. Hell to get up, hell to calm down with meditation, hell getting to work. Hellish first three hours, felt soo bad. Stressed and anxious. Getting work done is VERY difficult. Sooo much stress, so little focus and concentration, so little motivation...

 

Around 11am a little bit better but very depressed Eating was difficult, energy so low. Damn working is hard now.

[TheWayBack]

Day 20 follow-up: After noon, the depressed and sick feeling was on the foreground, racing thoughts kept coming. Went home early from work. Tried to rest with guided meditation, fell asleep for 30 minutes and woke with a panic attack, I forgot how I got home etc... After 20 minutes got the panic under control with Weekes method. The rest of the day was manageable but thoughts were not relaxed. Was much more relaxed around 5PM and went for a walk. Felt medium (which is not bad for the time being) anxiety until I was going to sleep. Took 0.05mg alprazolam before bedtime for my controlled tapering.

 

Maybe I should mention that I take melatonin for a week to get to sleep, which does wonders for me. Gets me to sleep in no time, anxious or not.

 

Day 21: Woke very early again around 4.30am, anxious. Took my 4th escitalopram 5mg. No alprazolam this morning. Couldn't get back to sleep. Anxiety was medium-low, but was manageable for some reason. Got back to work. Not as bad as yesterday but very restless until now.(10am). I can get some work done, which is good.

[TheWayBack]

Day 21 follow-up: Around 11am got more relaxed. Still ruminating thoughts but I could relax most of the time. One of the best days in a long time. Took 0.04mg alprazolam before sleep for the taper.

 

Day 22: Slept until 5.30am. Very anxious in the morning. 5th dose escitalopram 5mg. Still very anxious. Now at work still very anxious (8.30am).

[TheWayBack]

Day 22: Anxiety gone around 9.30am. One hour later EXTREMELY jittery, can't sit still, I want to run and scream, but no panic, just unmanageable restlessness. Won't subside for hours now!

[AliG]

Hi TheWayBack. It sounds like your Alprazolam use may be ramping up a little in intensity. Would you please keep a diary of your usage as it will help to establish cause and effect.

You may be suffering inter-dose withdrawal which may be causing these latest symptoms of jittery and restlessness.

What is your current schedule?

What do you mean when you say 4th or 5th dose escitalopram 5 mg ? How much are you on in total,daily?

[TheWayBack]

Hi AliG

 

Thank you for replying! The last 3 days have I been tapering the last bit of alprazolam:

• 3 days ago: 0.16mg alprazolam (0.08 in the morning, 0.08 in the afternoon)
• 2 days ago: 0.12mg alprazolam (0.06 in the morning, 0.06 in the evening)
• yesterday: 0.05mg (only in the evening - I had a pretty good day)
• today: 0.02mg (tonight in the evening, just some crumbs, my last day alprazolam I hope)

Today was my 5th day in the updose to 5mg escitalopram (5mg once every morning), I tapered from 10mg to 1.6mg in 2 years very successfully. Due to a problem with measurement I updosed accidentally to 2mg for a week. Unrest and mild withdrawal-type symptoms. Tried to go back to 1.6mg for 5 days, but problems wouldn't go away. Updosed for almost 3 weeks to 2mg, didn't work either. After the problematic weeks I updosed to 5mg, hoping to stop the panic attacks so I could go to work. And now in my 5th day...

 

 

[AliG]

Great job with the alprazolam . Well done. 

 

How are you feeling with the escitalopram updose after 5 days?  Are you feeling settled? it can take quite a few weeks before there is some stability.

[TheWayBack]

Thanks, but in all honesty the alprazolam has never been a big problem for me fortunately. But I have to admit that the withdrawal symptoms were much more intense this time around in comparison to the previous 2 times.

 

My panic attacks were very severe when I first started escitalopram, with an immense amount of anticipation-anxiety. When quitting escitalopram the first time, I only had withdrawal symptoms with anxiety, no panic attacks after 6-8 weeks. Reinstated 10mg after a week full of symptoms and I got  intense panic and anxiety for 4 days, but the 5th day almost stable.

 

This time around the symptoms from the wrong dosing started the same. Restlessness and anxiety for the most part, but when I started the definitive updose from 1.6mg to 2mg all hell broke loose again...

Now, three weeks later, and into the 5th day of 5mg, I can't speak of stability yet. No intense panic attacks in the last 3 days though. I do have a very high level of anxiety in the morning. Very clear and sharp anxiety and nothing helps (meditation, acceptance, breathing...) but it subsides after a couple of hours so far.

I went back to work the last three days and the first day I couldn't stay until the end. A small panic attack happened when I woke after dosing off for 30 minutes when I came home.

Yesterday was a pretty good day (didn't expect that at all) and today was unstable again. Anxiety in the morning, pretty stable around noon, intense jittery and restlessness in the afternoon. And now already 4 hours+ of calm. Lovely.

 

My experience is that reinstating after a complete stop of the medication for 6-8 weeks was much more straightforward than this situation. Messing up dosages and trying to stabilize is so much harder and has been a roller-coaster of misery so far.

[AliG]

My panic attacks were very severe when I first started escitalopram, with an immense amount of anticipation-anxiety. When quitting escitalopram the first time, I only had withdrawal symptoms with anxiety, no panic attacks after 6-8 weeks. Reinstated 10mg after a week full of symptoms and I got  i ntense panic and anxiety for 4 days, but the 5th day almost stable.

 

It's likely that you are more sensitive to the medication now and therefore more symptomatic. Just give it some time for your CNS to stabilize and keep notes on your symptoms as a reference.

 

Once you get stable it would be wise to do a long hold before tapering.

Edited August 25, 2017 by AliG

[TheWayBack]

Hi AliG

 

That's also my idea. No more tapering until I have done some CBT and when I'm at least 6 months stable, so that coping with the withdrawal will be easier. My panic attacks were non existent for the past 4 years, even at very low doses of escitalopram. But it seems that the updosing adventures of the past weeks triggered new panic attacks of a different kind.

 

Thank you for the follow-up my friend. Today the morning anxiety was a lot less and I'm pretty calm until now and not much rumination any more. (2PM). If the following days will be the same, hopefully the healing can start at last.

 

Love to you all.

[TheWayBack]

The last two days were pretty good and among the best until now, so that's pretty good.

 

Looking back - maybe prematurely - on the experience, I have the feeling that my original panic disorder episode was gone until the updosing started. It triggered a new one, but the combination of the small updose that wouldn't stabilize and the dosage that was too low for any therapeutic effect against the panic disorder caused so much problems for so long.

 

Now that the 5mg escitalopram is working I have the feeling that it isn't enough to completely remove the panic and anxiety, but I'm going to try with the help of Claire Weekes to cure myself for good while on this dosage. My nerves are still on edge and the anxiety is still lurking in the background. I still experience panic attacks albeit it less intense which is very good at this moment. The mornings are still dreadful.

 

Coping with the anxiety and panic in a new way - floating with it - is helping tremendously. Trying to calm myself down each time when an attack occurred was successful in its way, but it was more of a flight from the panic, instead of learning that it isn't as bad as one makes oneself think it is. I can better cope going through it, instead of trying to stop it.

 

Hope and Help for Your Nerves by Claire Weekes is by far the most valuable book or method to me in these times. I recommend this wholeheartedly to anyone with anxiety/panic issues. Amazing stuff. Is there anybody here that got rid of his/hers panic attacks with the floating method? Or does someone knows someone who did?

 

Thursday (4 days ago) was the last day of alprazolam. Haven't touched it since. Only melatonin to sleep and a couple cups of sleep-tea.

 

So I might skip some days to post, but I'm going to try the aforementioned methods thoroughly the following days. I'm hoping to make some progress with the anxiety and the panic. If I can eradicate it completely in the foreseeable future at this dosage I will have gained so much more confidence to finally stop with the medication in time.

 

Thank you all again.

 

Love and light.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheWayBack]

Fast-forward 4 days. I had a couple of OK days, still anxiety but manageable. But not once even remotely happy. Tense and anxious.

 

But yesterday was very difficult again. The evening began very good, a positive outlook for the first time in weeks. But the evening went bad later. VERY high anxiety and couldn't concentrate on anything. Dark thoughts. Took 0.05 mg alprazolam to cope, because it was extremely unsettling. Didn't want to go back to full dosages, so it was a tiny bit of a pill. It just took the edge off, but sleep was still very bad. Slept 3 hours and woke again with very high anxiety. Went to work today, but I can't focus on anything and feel very bad. Can't think, can't plan anything... I feel very 'out-of-it'. My wife is getting more and more uncertain of the future with me in this state for so long.

 

Again very hopeless :-(

[AliG]

I'm sorry that you had a difficult time yesterday but if you had some OK days then that's a good sign. Maybe your updose is starting to have some positive and beneficial effects. I don't think you can really expect too much "happiness" as such just now as you are still very much in the early days of trying to achieve some level of stabilization. It may come later down the track. You really need to give it some more time. I think it's day 11 - is that correct? It may take weeks or months to achieve some real level of stability. Once you have achieved that then a sense of happiness can probably occur as a result.

 

I notice after 4 days of doing without you reached for the alprazolam "to cope". Have you considered trying Magnesium instead? It is known as nature's tranquilizer. There are many forms that are helpful in withdrawal. I have found it to be invaluable and a very real tool for recovery and healing. Epsom's salt baths seem to help just about everything under the withdrawal umbrella.

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker  Have a read through and see what you think. Instead of reaching for an anti - anxiety drug perhaps you could go with Magnesium instead as it has so many benefits and none of the draw backs or side effects of medications.

 

Unfortunately, anxiety is a part of everyday life with all of it's associated stressors and it isn't going away anytime soon so it makes sense to work out ways of dealing with it naturally.

I have trained my adult children to take some magnesium or have a " mag bath " when stressed or under duress. eg. job interviews, exams etc.as a way of coping with added anxiety.

 

There are also other ways of coping and it's good to see that you are familiar with Claire Weekes and her work. I'm glad to see the floating has also been beneficial.You might also try meditation as an added tool in your kit and if you find straight meditation too challenging then you may prefer some " walking meditation" or guided meditations.

 

 

Guided Meditations, Calming Videos, Sleep Hypnosis

 

 

This pose is also excellent for helping to alleviate anxiety. It looks simplistic but it really works.

 

 

I hope you find something here that helps.

Edited August 31, 2017 by AliG