Kozack70: Kindling

[Kozak70]

I'm kindled now since 2012,when I reinstated Fluoxetine after 10 months clean of it .the first capsule I took made my symptoms worse than before.After that I tried to come off of it,I did quick taper,then CT,then reinstating untill I went on brain kindling,last year my psychiatrist switched me to Escitalopram Lexapro tablets but made once again my depression and anxiety more worse! I m tapering now by doing no more than 5% of daily dose wich was 5 mg ,it's my second cut now every cut is 15 days,but steel feeling withdrawals! Any thoughts?and advices,?

 

[mammaP]

Hi Kozack, welcome to SA. I am so sorry that it has taken so long to approve and reply to your post. We are all volunteer mods and the forum is very busy. 

 

I am also sorry to see that you have been suffering for so long. It is terrible that doctor's don't know anything about tapering, withdrawal and kindling.

 

Have you felt any WORSE or different symptoms since you cut the 5%?   It is sometimes hard to tell if it is withdrawal when already kindled, and the slightest change can further destabilise the nervous system.  Your doctor most likely reinstated a dose which was far too high after being off for 10 months. Most people become sensitive to the very drugs thay have been ok with in the past, and any other drugs. You are obviously not tolerating them but as you have discivered getting off is not easy either! 

 

Your plan pf 5% every 15 days looks good to me, but after you have made 2 cuts of 5% (totalling 10% per month)  you will need to recalculate so that the next 2 cuts are 5% of the CURRENT dose. This will mean that you have to weigh or make a liquid.  The reductions need to get smaller. otherwise you will feel withdrawal when the doses get lower.  I will get some links to topics you will find interesting. I am glad that you found us and very pleased to see that you are tapering slowly which is the only way to get off these drugs safely. 

 

Tapering escitalopram

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/406-tapering-off-lexapro-escitalopram/

 

What is withdrawal

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/603-what-is-withdrawal-syndrome/

 

Many people find that magnesium and fish oil calm the nervous system. Start with low doses one at a time and increase gradually.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/?view=findpost&p=100596&hl=magnesium

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

 

We ask all our members to fill in their signature with drugs and doses, this link will take you directly to the signature box. We need drugs, doses, when started/stopped and the most recent reductions.  

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/settings/signature/

[Kozak70]

thank you mama those links will help e a lot.thank you verry much iwas advised on FB  admin group to taper lower than 5% way like 2% because i m kindled for years and even to hold longer than 2weeks .i m stabilised now but steel feeling some waves each time i do a cut of 5% .

[Kozak70]

hi,all i m new on this site SA ?I  would like to share my long experience with Drugs SSRi s ,it s a long story :i started these Drugs on march ,16 1997  i was 27 years old now i m 47 .i was prescribed anafranil 25mg ,librium 10mg,tranxene 5mg,and sulpiride 50mg for Depression & anxiety  just one pill or capsul of all drugs then i stoped cold turkey three months later and went through horrific withdrawals and ended by reinstating anafranil 25 a TCA  one pill /day & 2 capsuls of tranxene 5mg this was a benzodiazepine i took them for an other year and was stabilized & complètelly healed from all the withdrawals ,after that my psychiatrist told me that i can stop these drugs he said stop tranxene abruptly and jump days for the TCA anafranil 25mg,and i did not know that was a big mistake even him he did not know a clue about haw to withdraw his patients from hus prescribed Drug. less than a month later in dec 1998 i started feeling the withdrawals again but i said that they will last ,unfortunatelly this was not never hapened till i reinstated the two drugs 18 months later wich i spend throught worse  protracted  withdrawals,i ended up back to my psychiatrist and explained him what happened to me since november 1998 to april 2000.all he told me and advised me to do is to go back(reinstate) on medication anafranil 25mg & tranxene 5  just one/one of each drug ,the first day or hours after reinstating i started yawning  and felt tired and was just sleeping every day i ended up gaining weight however i felt better than the 18 months of the horrific withdrawals  .i hold one year on these prescription  in the summer of 2001 my psychiatrist switched me to Prozac 20mg a day always with tranxene 5mg (dipotassium  chlorazepate),icontinued my medication for 2 years till 2003 i was stabilized since 2000 so i thought that i was healed and that i have to come off of my drugs i started by skiping dailly dose of prozac ,then i started also opening the 5 mg tranxene capsules and taking a half ended up by taking only prozac one capsul every 4 days then 7 days without feeling withdrawals or any issues i said that i was healed and that theses drugs was things of my past life and that now i m my own self again happy & completely healed and went as i was just taking fluoxetine (prozac) as needed till 2011 i stoped it ,tranxene  5mg i stopped it in 2009. and i i did not told my psychiatrist what i have done since years ,for him i was on his prescribed drugs for more than 10 years in 2011 .after all that i was fine and happy of my victotry ...6 months later off drugs and complètely clean  i started losing weight & having night sweats when i wke up in the midnights ifound my bed wet ,but in the morning all was normal and at the 10th month off drugs i started having insomnia & nightmarres when i sleep,i was walking all day without feeling tiredness & sudennly on march 2012 i wake up with a strong wave of withdrawals & panic attacks,anxiety, tiredness, i went back to my psychiatrist and he said that i have to reinstate Prozac again and that my brain need it forever ,but when i did prozac (fluoxetine )made things worse & adverse effects too. i took some days as needed tranxene 5mg but didnot help though .since that withdrawalds go worse every time i try to stabilise or take a dailly dose of fluoxetine ,i stopped it cold turkey ,and reinstated several times but i was throughout withdrawals whatever i have done i tryed a quick taper,took initial dailly dose of fluoxetine ,took some herbs to boost my mood ,and had serotonine syndrome when i took st johns wort wiyh prozac .(i was not hospitalized) ohh how miserable i felt for years now ,my psychiatrist switched me to lexapro(escitalopram)10mg  in april 2016but the adverses effects was present anyway all what i have done was a faillure by upping doses,lower doses,nothing helped ,then i stopped lexapro in august (way too fast)& anded up with long protracted withdrawals again.for 4 months after i was off meds i reintated the drug again and was worse than all times it was last winter december 2016-january 2017 then switched to fluoxetine but also didnot help butmade things worse &worse ,in last april switched back to lexapro 5mg then after 2 months i m tapering it after i found out that i was kindled by Ann Blake -Tracy & Holly noble meyers two admins women on face book groups and that i have to stabilise first and just have to do a long slow taper of no more than 2% every 2-4 weeks ,i m now titrating 5 mg of lexapro in 100ml of water an discarting 5% of liquid every 2 weeks but i do have some awefull days .i hope that i will come off of these Drugs one day ,because i cant live as i m now since 2012.thank you ,sorry this was a long story that i wanted to make you know it.

[Kozak70]

hello,i m trying to taper lexapro 10 generic pill ,and i m down to 4.30mg now started at 5 mg on Sep 2017 however i have a long story with ssri drug for over 20 years  i would like to know if i can dissolve 10 mg pill in 200ml of water then making 100+100 ml and wonder if i can only take one 100ml of this liquid and discard 14,26 ml to obtain my currant daily dose (i have not a liquid form or 5 mg pill and even a jwellery scale  to weight them) and because i m kindled too i m now just cutting my pills onto 2 parts using a cutter the first generic pills have a lines in the middle  and were easy to cut not these New once titrating drug is the only way to come off of it now.

[ChessieCat]

Hi Kozak,

 

I moved your post to your Intro topic.  It is best to ask questions about your own situation in your Intro topic.  This keeps your history in one place and questions and their responses can be easily seen by other members which can help them as well.

 

We ask all new members to create a drug signature which appears below every post they make.  These directions explain SA's preferred format.  Please update it whenever you make a change so it remains current.  Thank you.

 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

I will add drug tags to you topic (top left, under the title).  Clicking on them will provide links to other members with the same tag.

 

From the Post #1 in Tips for tapering off Lexapro (escitalopram)

 

Do-it-yourself liquid
People report that they can make their own liquid from Lexapro tablets and water.

It is soluble in water, see http://www.drugbank.ca/drugs/DB01175 -- stability (shelf-life of dilution) is unknown.

See How to make a liquid from tablets or capsules

 

 

Make sure that you do it the same way every time.

 

My calculations:

 

If you dissolve 10mg in 200ml water, each 1ml of liquid will = .05mg

 

(If you remove and discard double the amounts below from 200ml water you can then divide the liquid in half and you will get 2 doses)

 

Therefore 100ml = 5mg

 

Remove and discard 14ml to get 4.3mg

 

Remove and discard 22.6ml to get 3.87mg

 

To double check this I subtracted the discard amount from 100 then multipled by .05

 

100 - 14 = 86 x .05 = 4.3

 

100 - 22.6 = 77.4 x .05 = 3.87

 

To calculate the dose I subtracted the dose you want to take from 5.00 (eg 5 - 3.87) and then multiplied by 2 (5 - 3.87 = 1.13 x 2 = 2.26) then multiplied by 10 (5 - 3.87 = 1.13 x 2 = 2.26 x 10 = 22.6)

 

And for the other calculation:  (5 - 4.3 = .7 x 2 = 1.4 x 10 = 14)

 

These might also be helpful:

 

Where to get oral syringes

 

Where to get oral syringes

[Kozak70]

thank you chessie cat , i really feel lost after i my brain kindled since early 2013 ,after that i was on fluoxetine i tried to come off of it myself but unfortunately i did not know anything about these drugs ,so early 2013 started to experience worse withdrawals & adverse effects  with protracted withdrawals then every time i stop the drug i feel bad and when i reinstate it things go 1000x bad & worse than before (previous time i was on) ended up with anxiety, chronic depression ,and switched to lexapro 10 mg in 2016 did not work or maye be just i felt so scary to continue on it & tapered it quickly ,& once again i had withdrawals all summer,autumn and winter 2016 reinstated it in late 2016 December.but i went through the hellish days of my life & since June 2016 i try to come off of lexapro 5 mg by titrating it in 100ml of water but i cant bear the withdrawals & starting to lose hope that i ll heal one day i,m now at 4.7 mg so i m discarding 18.55 ml of 100ml of the liquid (home made) the 100ml i put 1/2  of the 10 mg pill that i think wiil be 5mg from that i use a 20 ml gradual syringe and drop away 18.55 ml & drink the remain 81.45 ml but steel feeling bad

[ChessieCat]

Your drug signature is in French.  It is also a written paragraph.  Please amend and write it as a list of dates drugs and doses ONLY.  No symptoms or diagnoses please.  Thank you.

 

This is the preferred format which makes it easier for us to see your drug history at a glance:

 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

[Kozak70]

Hi ,I m Lecat (48 years old man ) I would like to thank Alto & other members of SA ,my story is too long ,: 3 years of anafranil 25 mg + Tranxène 5 mg --then switched to Prozac 20 mg +Tranxène 5 mg for 10 years , was fine & completely healed during 13  years even if I tried to come off of Drugs several times 2 cold turkey , 2 reinstatement ( the first time after 3 months -the second time after 18 months both were success no side effects or adverse reactions ! Meds worked after that long time on meds I stopped gradually by skipping days and even weeks no withdrawals felt ,I were off Prozac for 10 months then I got withdrawals suddenly ! In 2012,& when I reinstated it too late I got adverse reactions & Kindling switched to lexapro In 2016  but things turned worse & much worse though! Now I'm trying to slow taper it but my brain is hypersensitive to up or down drug & even stay on them ,I'm 2,5 mg started my taper last September after 5 years on hell of adverse reactions & Kindling ,I don't know if I 'll heal or I have brain damage & neurotoxicity of Prozac & lexapro.

 

_______________________________________________

 

Salut, je suis Lecat (48 ans) Je voudrais remercier Alto & autres membres de SA, mon histoire est trop longue,: 3 ans d'anafranil 25 mg + 5 mg de Tranxène - puis 20 mg de Prozac + Tranxène 5 mg pendant 10 ans, était bien et complètement guéri pendant 13 ans même si j'ai essayé de sortir de Drugs plusieurs fois 2 dinde froide, 2 réintégration (la première fois après 3 mois -la deuxième fois après 18 mois tous les deux ont été succès aucun côté effets secondaires ou effets indésirables Meds travaillé après longtemps sur meds Je me suis arrêté progressivement en sautant des jours et même des semaines sans retrait ressenti, j'ai été fermé Prozac pendant 10 mois puis j'ai retiré brutalement! En 2012, et quand je l'ai rétabli trop tard J'ai eu des réactions négatives et Kindling est passé à Lexapro En 2016, mais les choses ont empiré et bien pire!J'essaie de ralentir le rythme, mais mon cerveau est hypersensible à la hausse ou à la baisse de la drogue et même rester sur eux, je suis 2,5 mg commencé mon effilé en septembre après 5 ans sur l'enfer des réactions indésirables et Kindling, je ne sais pas si je vais guérir ou si j'ai des lésions cérébrales et une neurotoxicité de Prozac & lexapro.

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by ChessieCat
extracted post and added French from another post

[ChessieCat]

Hi Kozak,

 

I've merged the new Intro topic you created with your original Intro topic.  Each member has only 1 Intro topic where you can ask questions about their own situation and journal your progress.  This keeps your history in one place.  Please do not start any more Intro topics.  Thank you.

[Kozak70]

hi ,ChessieCat ? Sorry i did a mistake i would like to delete my post but as i m new here ,i ll try to be more carful about that 

.if you can readjust it ,help me please .thank you all i m verry sorry.

 

 

[ChessieCat]

2 minutes ago, Kozak70 said:

help me please

 

What do you want help with?

[Kozak70]

On 09/03/2018 at 7:48 PM, ChessieCat said:

Your drug signature is in French.  It is also a written paragraph.  Please amend and write it as a list of dates drugs and doses ONLY.  No symptoms or diagnoses please.  Thank you.

 

This is the preferred format which makes it easier for us to see your drug history at a glance:

 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

thank you.

 

[Kozak70]

1 minute ago, ChessieCat said:

 

What do you want help with?

okay ,i saw it thank you ChessieCat  i wont post or open a new topic .

[Kozak70]

my too late Prozac (fluopxetine)reinstatement  turned worse and throuwn me into adverse reanctions & bad mental feeling 24/7 since i took my first pills of anafranil 25 mg back in 1997 i was fine & never felt miserale this way before ,switched after that to prozac 20mg in 2001 also it worked & felt normal stayed on it 10 years and started tapering iet by skiping days & then weeks too things were normal & easy till i completely stopped it in 2011 for 10 months i was completly happy & activ again i forgot my old 1997 Depression ,unfortunately after 100 months off i started losing weight ,nightmarres, vivid dreams,night sweating at work i was normal but i liked staying lone never sope a lot with my ftriends ,& troubles were happening only by night i woke up at 3 Am ,swiming in my sweat clothes & bad completely wet ! till one day i wake up to go to work & felt a big anxiety ,panic attacks ,depression i did not understwood what i was experiencing or what was hapening to me ,i reinstated Prozac 20mg but symptoms remained for weeks & even worsened so i took a low dose a benzo drug TRANXENE 5mg i help but unfortunatelly this made thing much worse & anxiety jumped through roof these two drugs were working & were a life saver for long time (10 years ) why they did not work this time i wondered ? my psyhiatrist said that they ll work & that i just have to wait but i cant i stopped abruptly ,i took some herbs as st john's wort & within hours i had a serotonine syndrom during all night ! in the morning i was verry tired i had some hallucinations while i was sleeping & talked a lone mom said.i stayed 2months off meds cold turkyed them but symptoms returned  & put me bedridden & went back to my psychiatrist who was angry for what i have done & put me again on prozac 20mg & like the first reinstatement it was a hell of worse symptoms ! istayed upping & lowering doses over a year but i was not normal at all.prozac became my enemy now .& was stopping by quick taper & reinstating several times between 2012-2016 every time was worse than the previous one ,i switched to lexapro in 2016 i took it for 2 months 10mg then i quick tapred it (made me feel suicidal)i stayed 4 months off & got prolacted withdrawals as times before when i stopped prozac seems that no drug will help or work , i reinstated it in december 2016 i went through kindling & neurotoxicity & even maye be  a brain damage ,once again reinstating lexapro was a mistake and error ,in summer 2017 i started tapering it for the second time !now i m at a low dose 2,5 mg by titrating in water doing 5% of decrease every 2 weeks but no improuvement seen till now !yesterday i cut down from 2,5 mg to 1 mg as i found out in a SSRIS WITHDRAWALS   FB  support  GROUP & some shared sories on SA that for patients like me who have  hypersensitive drugs brain neurotoxicity that 1 mg or a micro-dose can work better then a high dose.that's what i try to experience in hope of haeling i'm just waiting & reading succes stories . 

[Kozak70]

i have a long story of kindling my brain now is probabely sensitived of several quick tapreing that i have made during years 2012-2018 ,it started in spring of 2012 when i reinstated prozac 20 mg wich i was off of it for 10 months then i relapsed or it mye be withdrawals hit me & that i ignored that it was the main probleme ,so the first pill a have taken (prozac i was on it for 10 years & worked perfectely during all that decade) so after reinstatement i had severe worsened symptoms rising every day a month after i was throgh hell i dint knew that it was an adverse reaction of ssri drugs too late reinstatement i cold turkyed it & took st johns wort ,& had serotonin syndrom or maye be a brain damage! i stayed 2 months off of prozac & was not able to sleep or do anything just feeling worse protracted withdrawals !every day & night a well,i reinstated a full dose 20mg wich through me into an other adverse reaction that i cant handle for more than 2-3 weeks then started to taper again until a year after i felt burning all over my head & brain itching & hundreds of others physical & emotional symptoms i was always doing up & down (plyed with doses)cold turkying then too late reinstatements i did not knew dangers of what i was doing ! i felt sick ,anxious 24/7 depressed i also got resstless leg syndrom i stayed drug free for 3 months in 2014 then reinstated,4 months off 2015-then reinstated & got worse & worse adverse reaction of prozac in 2016 i  switched to lexapro i was taking 5 mg /day for 2 months but it didnt help  my brain was already hypersesitive to any drugs the i also quick tapred it like i was doing with prozac  stayed  4 months off  too,i ended up by reinstating (it was dangerous but did it by ignoring the troubles that can happenwith that) i was told in 2017 by facebook supports group admin that i  was kindled for sure ! i started tapering without get stabilized or feeling subsided withdrawals symptoms i was on lexapro 5mg witch i titrated in water & reduced slowly but never get stabilized through all my tappering 3 weeks ago i have finished my taper to 0,045 mg a micro dose of lexapro  however withdrawals or damage symptoms are at the gates like previous times ,i m really tired & scared ,my question is shall i  go back to my last decrease dose 0,045 mg ( i have   reinstated 0,025 mg twice next week ) then felt a bit better the day after but i didnt took   it every day i was scared & steel i m ,some says that i have to suffer weeks,months or even years protracted withdrawals as i m kindled please any advice?

[Altostrata]

That's all one sentence, and impossible to follow.

 

Please add paragraph breaks to your posts. Long blocks of text are difficult to read.

 

Did you feel better while you were taking Lexapro? Did your symptoms start when you stopped Lexapro?

 

If you've gone off Lexapro recently and have withdrawal symptoms, I would go back to the last dosage.

[jonnypeters1234567]

On 8/30/2018 at 11:59 AM, Kozak70 said:

i have a long story of kindling my brain now is probabely sensitived of several quick tapreing that i have made during years 2012-2018 ,it started in spring of 2012 when i reinstated prozac 20 mg wich i was off of it for 10 months then i relapsed or it mye be withdrawals hit me & that i ignored that it was the main probleme ,so the first pill a have taken (prozac i was on it for 10 years & worked perfectely during all that decade) so after reinstatement i had severe worsened symptoms rising every day a month after i was throgh hell i dint knew that it was an adverse reaction of ssri drugs too late reinstatement i cold turkyed it & took st johns wort ,& had serotonin syndrom or maye be a brain damage! i stayed 2 months off of prozac & was not able to sleep or do anything just feeling worse protracted withdrawals !every day & night a well,i reinstated a full dose 20mg wich through me into an other adverse reaction that i cant handle for more than 2-3 weeks then started to taper again until a year after i felt burning all over my head & brain itching & hundreds of others physical & emotional symptoms i was always doing up & down (plyed with doses)cold turkying then too late reinstatements i did not knew dangers of what i was doing ! i felt sick ,anxious 24/7 depressed i also got resstless leg syndrom i stayed drug free for 3 months in 2014 then reinstated,4 months off 2015-then reinstated & got worse & worse adverse reaction of prozac in 2016 i  switched to lexapro i was taking 5 mg /day for 2 months but it didnt help  my brain was already hypersesitive to any drugs the i also quick tapred it like i was doing with prozac  stayed  4 months off  too,i ended up by reinstating (it was dangerous but did it by ignoring the troubles that can happenwith that) i was told in 2017 by facebook supports group admin that i  was kindled for sure ! i started tapering without get stabilized or feeling subsided withdrawals symptoms i was on lexapro 5mg witch i titrated in water & reduced slowly but never get stabilized through all my tappering 3 weeks ago i have finished my taper to 0,045 mg a micro dose of lexapro  however withdrawals or damage symptoms are at the gates like previous times ,i m really tired & scared ,my question is shall i  go back to my last decrease dose 0,045 mg ( i have   reinstated 0,025 mg twice next week ) then felt a bit better the day after but i didnt took   it every day i was scared & steel i m ,some says that i have to suffer weeks,months or even years protracted withdrawals as i m kindled please any advice?

 

Hi Kozak, 

 

Just wanted to stop by and say sorry for your suffering, youve been through alot.

 

 

[Kozak70]

thank you johnypeters, i hope that it gets better with time & that we ll all heal one day i have to wait it out 

 

[Kozak70]

sorry,Alto i'm not an native american ,i m so sorry ,i try to learn what's going with me ,i m just a french   victim man ,thank you for your support ,i was not stable on lexapro especially 5-10 mg  i find some improuvement at micro doses 0,025   to 0,50mg  but even with that i was experiencing withdrawals  but not like those who i m going through now after 25  days off ,its like one day i feel worse the next day i do feel a bit better (short window of one day ) ,so i dont know if i have to wait it out or go back at the micro dose 0,50 mg! i m  kindled with failed quick tapers that i have done before ! i have an hypersensitive brain i'm afraid that i have been damaged by these drugs.thank you verry much Alto.