Kmdr: Medication advice

[Kmdr]

Hello,

 

New to this site. Here's my history, it's extensive and I could go into more detail if needed.

 

Currently 33 years old and was diagnosed with depression, anxiety (occasional panic) at age 19. Started seeing psychiatrist and psychologist for on medication and CBT purposes. Was on Zoloft followed by Paxil, Celexa then Lexapro. Started with Zoloft gave me some relief but after months on this drug it just gave me too many side effects as it increased anxiety and dizziness was unbearable. Also, I was given  Xanax as needed due to excessive anxiety and occasional panic attacks.  During this time, I found out how common depression and anxiety were within my immediate family. This was a surprise to me and it made me confused/angry at how/why I was never told about certain health topics that obviously could have an impact on me. Why would my own parents or grandparents not mention this? One word, stigma.

 

After Zoloft, I was switched to Paxil (worse med for me ever) as this didn't help at all. It gave me no relief and didn't help with my panic, anxiety depression as it really made me much worse. I had many irrational, negative thoughts with a lot of hopelessness mixed in wondering if it will ever get better. (Slept for days, bleak view on life) My doctor switched me to Citalopram (had some relief but too many side effects) and then Lexapro. Lexapro was given to me in my early twenties. It helped provide relief and being young and naive I thought the pill would be all I needed to change. Wrong. I wasn't knowledgeable on the topic and I developed much of this opinion due to family members beliefs. The thought process they had was just too basic as they justified this by saying when you're physically sick and have a headache you take tylenol to make it go away. This is the same concept for mental health as when you're depressed and anxious you take a pill and it will help it go away. Pills mask underlying issues and this was something that I didn't believe in at that time. I stopped seeing my psychologist early on in my treatment as I didn't like how I told all of my life stories to a "stranger" and never really felt comfortable with any of the four I saw. After feeling pretty good, I decided to taper off Lexapro and went months feeling decent. Relapsed around age 25 with depression and worsen anxiety. 

 

At this time, I went back to my PCP who said I should go back to a psychiatrist. I followed his advice.I decided to choose a different psychiatrist (due to where I was residing) and she suggested I go back on Lexapro due to how well it worked. I agreed. I hated the fact of cognitive therapy and didn't think I needed it so I decided not to engage with that practice. I stayed on Lexapro until I was 32 and a half as there were many ups and downs where my doctor prescribed different medications to try to help quell some additional anxiety/depression at certain times of the year. Mirtazapine, Wellbutrin, Cymbalta as none of these were helpful just side effect galore. From 26-30, I felt decent as I had ups and downs. The medication was working but I wasn't helping my own causes at many times by drinking a lot (lead to multiple accidents, fortunately no one including myself got hurt, alcohol masked my feelings but made them worse in the end), not eating healthy and still having the belief that a pill would help me the most and everything would go away.

 

My beliefs started changing but out of fear and stigma I remained in my shell of comfort and decided it's better to be blah and alright then what I was like before. Wrong. My support system, family said I should go see a psychologist as I was still reluctant (due to prior disappointments) but finally decided to try it out. Best thing I did. I started to see a psychologist who really focused on working on specific behaviors, thoughts and beliefs I had. Very challenging to do but I realized through her and A LOT of reading of self help books ( I can share and if anyone wants to know) that I'm my own worst enemy. I have many distorted cognitive views, which I believe are the main reasons why my anxiety and depression peak at certain times. Many of these views were developed via nurture, my environment, growing up as my parents were complete opposites and ended up getting divorced when I was age 16. My mom does have her worries but she's a saint. We all have our issues but she's the most positive person around. I envy her outlook on life and am blessed at how I have her as my number one support system person (brother is a close second) in life.

 

Furthermore, my father has suffered through depression and anxiety since his mid-twenties and it has really had an impact on his life. He's been on Prozac 60 mg per day as well as 5-6 mg of Xanax for his condition. When he was anxious or fearful, he became angry and emotionally/verbally violent, which was his outlet. Not healthy, tremendous impact on myself and my brother. Due to this factor, I struggled with self-esteem, self-love, self-compassion etc. and still do today. I developed much resentment and anger for him. Unfortunately, as time went on, his emotions and choices caught up for him and he lost everything. Sad but not surprising. Financially, he lost everything, and his physical health caught up to him.  He had severe physical ailments (due to 2 packs a day smoking that almost killed him) and mental health issues got worse. I didn't feel empathy for his situation as I struggled with this factor for a while. He made his choices and now he must deal with them. He continued making me feel like an awful person when he was sick where I finally stopped communicating with him for 4 months.

 

 My current psychologist has helped me manage these feelings and made me realize that even though he's father, he has no right to treat me the way he does. I have worked years trying to deal with him as I have made great strides with this factor. I let his emotions have an impact on my feelings but I finally learned I have the right to decide whether or not he can do this. My father finally saw the light that he has no one and if he continues treating my brother and I the way he does he'll lose us both. Our relationship is manageable right now as I tread carefully and understand that it will never be great. I have accepted this fact. Acceptance is a powerful took when managing with depression and anxiety. I always thought I can get rid of my excessive anxiety but have learned this isn't realistic.  I have learned and believe that there are many helpful skills I can use to help with my constant worry, fears and thoughts. But to be honest, anxiety and depression have been the most challenging health endeavor I have ever encountered.

 

 I have had plenty of physical issues in my young life as some have been worse than others (migraines, broken bones, open heart surgery etc.)  But nothing compares to mental health. It can eat away at you at all times of the day/night. At times, I stop doing my self help skills because I feel like "I'm losing the battle" as this occurs due to my struggle of acknowledging the waves of emotions that occur on a daily basis in life. I'm doing better but I'm too hard on myself. I get overwhelmed with all the helpful tools out there that instead of trying one, I try multiple ones but it burns me out. I need to stick to some and go with it. My main focus recently has focused around acceptance, how to manage worrisome thoughts and practicing self-compassion. Self-compassion is a powerful tool as I believe working on qualities like self-kindness and mindfulness will have a positive impact on my life. I'm way too hard on myself and have poor self-esteem,self image/body (struggled body issues bulimia) self-beliefs and self-love etc. Due to these factors, I shy away from many daily things because of my fear that I'm not good enough or it will end poorly. A big area I have been reluctant to try are relationships.  I haven't had a girlfriend in six years and a lot of this is because I don't believe I have much to offer, which I know isn't true.

 

Wow, have I rambled but I believe it was necessary. As I mentioned before, I could go into even more detail. You might be wondering medication wise what has happened from 32 and a half until current 33 and a half. I decided to switch off lexapro as every summer for three years in a row I got worse depression/anxiety wise. I'm a school teacher and I struggle with time-off so these months aren't easy for me. Doctor always mentioned, if it doesn't work plenty of other choices and can always go back. I started with effexor 37.5 to 75  to 150 (second worse med for me ever) Some relief at first but made things worse anxiety wise and made me ask myself why I switched? Doctor gave me Xanax just in case and this med made me always feel like I needed it around. (Note: Never felt like I needed Xanax when on Lexapro as this has happened while on all four of these meds I tried in past year or so, still have it around when I go out) Took for 4 months in total including tapering off for less than one month while starting prozac. Really gave it time and some help self skills were helping as I felt worse, stopped self help stuff. (medication, daily thought records, journals etc.) So many tough days and being a teacher it was debilitating. Beat myself over this factor.

 

My doctor switched me to Prozac but the withdrawal effects of effexor were the worse out of any SSRI/SNRI I have ever taken. Started to look online and noticed on this site HOW FAST my doctor tapered me off of this stuff. Has very short half life and I became really upset with my doctor and decided to switch to a new psychiatrist. Throughout the years, she has always switched or tapered at such a rapid pace and I discussed this with my support system and my psychologist how I wanted to switch to a new doctor for a while. They all said that's a good idea but I didn't do so out of comfort and fear. Change is tough for anyone but more so with people who struggle with distorted cognitive views. Prozac didn't relieve symptoms that much as I was on 20 mg, 40 mg, then 60 mg but stopped there. Was on this for 4 months and my new psychiatrist thought the older SSRI's weren't a wise route to try again so Trintellex was introduced. 5mg, 10mg, then 20 mg. On for about two plus months but side effects weren't good so tapered off and started Viibryd (third worse med ever) Viibryd didn't provide much relief. 10 mg one week, 20 mg one week, 40 mg 3 days, 20 mg one week, 10 mg one week, off. Both Trintellex and Viibryd were extremely fast acting.

 

Most older SSRIs took time where I struggled with the brain fog and other side effects but they dissipated as time went on. These two were felt within the first week. Unfortunately due to extreme anxiety, abnormal/vivid nightmares, nausea, vomit etc. I tapered than stopped. So this leads us to last week where I saw my psychiatrist (to be correct she's an APRN who works with my psychologist's office as I thought seeing both doctors working together would work best) I told her my struggles with Viibryd and how I'm sick and tired of dealing with side effects. I have tried four different meds in a year span and none provided quality relief.

 

She mentioned trying antipsychotics (abilify but did mention how they have rare irreversible side effects, I already knew this) anti-seizure Lamictal and TMS. To be honest, all of these options made me fearful. She was understanding and said she knows why I would want to try this path. She said use prozac if needed if you feel like the withdrawal is too much. All of these other meds she mentioned mainly work for other conditions but might work for mine as they have severe possible side effects, rare, I know but scary. I decided no, I don't want to take anything new. I'm so frustrated with nothing working that I thought I'd give my brain a rest. Even though I have been on these different meds, for the past five month I have been exercising and rating healthy, which both help my mood tremendously, especially the exercise. Most support system people (Mom, brother) thought this wasn't the best idea to get off of medication, this made me a little upset at first but realized it's alright they disagree because they;re only doing so because they care. I read all about withdrawal and discontinuation syndrome and thought I would fight through it. After four days it's been awful but this was to be expected. Dealing with brain zaps, vivid abnormal nightmares causing sleeping issues, dizzy, head tense,irritability, depersonalization etc. at times. Today, decided to take prozac as mentioned by my APRN to help with the withdrawal.

 

In conclusion, I'm clearly just frustrated with the medication factor of treatment. I'm trying to focus on the holistic approach. I can acknowledge that I probably came off of Viibry too quickly but don't want to go back on it even though I read on here it's better to go back on it then bridge with prozac. I tried going on effexor after tapering too fast but it made it worse, which is why I'm reluctant to go back on Viibryd.

 

I have two options I'm struggling with choosing as of right now;

 

OPTION 1: Half of me wants to continue to fight/deal with the discontinuation symptoms (take prozac for 1-2 weeks to help), which supposedly lasts 1-3 weeks on average (could be longer months/ gulp, years for others) while using the three big skills of acceptance/manage worry rationally/self compassion to help aid the process. (Of course continue to see my psychologist each week, side note she has a baby a month ago so have been seeing someone else, not as helpful but she'll be back in 5 weeks)    

 

OPTION 2: Other half of me is thinking about going back on Lexapro and use the three main skills I mentioned. with the medication as assistance as I didn't really practice these self-help skills while I was on Lexapro before. This is my story. As mentioned, I'm open about expanding on anything in my story if asked. Sorry for its length but I'm sure it helps the reader. Any advice or suggestions would be helpful! Thank you.

Edited August 21, 2017 by mammaP
added paragraph breaks; changed name

[baroquep]

Hi kmdr, 

 

I just wanted to stop in to welcome you to Surviving Antidepressants.  I'm sorry to read that you are having difficulty after discontinuing Viibryd.  Rest assured these symptoms are very common when withdrawing from these drugs.

 

You have given us a lot of information which will be helpful in determining what might help to alleviate your symptoms and I would ask that you fill out your signature in the meantime as it will allow moderators to see what they are dealing with at a glance.

 

We ask all our members to fill in their signature and you can find the instructions at the link below. 

 

Please put your withdrawal history in your signature (instructions here)

 

As well, I’m attaching a few links to get you started and to help you understand what it going on.  Surviving Antidepressants is an amazing group of people who understand what you are going through and you will find a lot of support here.

 

The first topic explains withdrawal syndrome and the second link explains how the brain heals during withdrawal from psychiatric drugs.  I know it was very helpful to me when I first started.

 

What is Withdrawal Syndrome

Brain Remodeling

 

Have a look around the site and familiarize yourself.  Your intro, once approved, will be the best place for you to ask any questions you might have and where you can connect with other members of the community. 

 

Introductions and updates (connect with members here)

 

Again, welcome to Surviving Antidepressants, I hope you find the information I’ve provided helpful and hoping that you start to feel better soon

Edited August 21, 2017 by baroquep

[Kmdr]

Baroquep,

 

Thank you for the suggestions. I have read both of those articles you mentioned on withdrawal symptoms on multiple occasions in years past. I even shared them with my former psychiatrist. She didn't believe in the extremely slow process of withdrawing. On the other hand,  my current psychologist always mentioned to me how she thought my psychiatrist moved too quickly with her tapering or cross tapering methods. I was quite skeptical myself until my experience with Effexor. It was brutal.

 

I have been a frequent viewer of this site for years but I finally decided to actively participate because I firmly believe that expanding my support system will have a positive impact on my health. Also, I believe getting multiple perspectives from others who have gone through similar experiences as myself with this topic can help with the process. Thank you.

[nz11]

Hi kmdr so glad you joined sa.

Would you please consider doing the withdrawal survey.

[mammaP]

Hi Kmdr, welcome from me too. I have added some white space to your post and have made the drug changes bold to make it easier to understand. I hope that is ok. Most of us struggle with reading and making sense of long paragraphs when in withdrawaland having brain fog! 

 

How were you when you took prozac for 4 months?  As it was the last one you were on for a significant time it would probably be the best one to reinstate but at at very very low dose, what dose have you started? 

[Kmdr]

No worries. I probably wrote too much unrelated to medication anyways.

 

I was on Prozac for 4 months. Challenging at first due to the Effexor withdrawal symptoms. Cross tapering with two weeks on different medication wasn't easy. Once I was complete off Effexor dealt with discontinuation symptoms of brain zaps, brain fog, flu like symptoms and more for about a week. Stated to feel better on Prozac after a month total. (2 weeks after being off of Effexor) Felt alive, mood was positive, was enjoying things I liked again, sense of clarity/concentration,having fun as this lasted for week and half. Thought this was the turning point but kind of sunk back into feeling low. After 3 and half weeks went up to 40 mg, side effects kicked in so back down to 20 mg for 4 weeks and didn't find relief so my doctor thought I should try something else.

 

Out of all the medications I have been on in the past year, Prozac has had the most good days. My current APRN decided I should go back on Prozac at 20 mg to help with my current discontinuation symptoms from Viibryd as Prozac is easier to come off due to its lengthy half life. Also, she mentioned how when I cross-tapered to Trintellex I had no issues coming off of Prozac. After two days of starting Prozac the brain zaps went away. I still have the fogginess/tenseness and extra anxiety but I know those will all subside in due time. Just skeptical on what I should do next. My APRN said to take 20 mg for two weeks and then taper down. I think it's too fast per usual. Here to gather support and advice on what I could do next. Thanks.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, kmdr.

 

On 8/20/2017 at 8:33 AM, Kmdr said:

I read all about withdrawal and discontinuation syndrome and thought I would fight through it. After four days it's been awful but this was to be expected. Dealing with brain zaps, vivid abnormal nightmares causing sleeping issues, dizzy, head tense,irritability, depersonalization etc. at times. Today, decided to take prozac as mentioned by my APRN to help with the withdrawal.

 

Those are classic antidepressant withdrawal symptoms. Are you taking Prozac "as needed"? At what dosage? It's very unusual to take Prozac like that.

 

Medicine believes that withdrawal syndrome lasts only a few weeks and symptoms are trivial. However, the people on this site are all here because they've not found that to be true. 

 

Going on and off drugs can sensitize your nervous system and generate the warning signs of destabilization that we call withdrawal symptoms. This might have started a long time ago and is why you have tried many drugs with "no relief" but lots of adverse reactions -- you've been going through cycles of withdrawal symptoms and re-medication to treat them. When your nervous system is sensitized, you are more prone to adverse reactions.

 

A history of long-term antidepressants (or other psychiatric drugs) is high-risk for prolonged withdrawal syndrome. 

 

However, everyone is different and you may find your withdrawal symptoms improve in a few weeks. If you find they are getting worse, you may wish to reinstate a low dose, such as 5mg, of Prozac every day. A low dose is less likely to irritate your sensitized nervous system. You would stabilize on the low dose for some months and then very carefully taper off it. See About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms 

 

This topic explains how to take a low dose of Prozac Tips for tapering off Prozac (fluoxetine)

[Kmdr]

Hello Altostrata,

 

I'm not taking Prozac as needed as I'm consistently taking it at 20 mg once a day in the morning.

 

My APRN suggested doing this for two weeks, followed by tapering down to 10 mg for two weeks and then stop after that. This seems like it's still too fast as I'm planning to meet with her in 2 weeks to see how I'm feeling on being on 20 mg. I'm going to suggest the 10% method.

 

I agree with many of your points as I do think my nervous system is sensitized for withdrawal. I believe I've been going on and off medications way too fast, it doesn't work. Also, I believe I have been going up and down doses too fast as well. My nervous system hasn't been given enough time to stabilize, which leads to the adverse symptoms. 

[mammaP]

41 minutes ago, Kmdr said:

I believe I have been going up and down doses too fast as well. My nervous system hasn't been given enough time to stabilize, which leads to the adverse symptoms. 

You are absolutely right! You need to stick with 20mg to stabilise. We would suggest holding there for a few months after all the bouncing around to be sure you are fully stabilised before starting to taper. Tapering after 2 weeks is another experiment that will go badly wrong and see you suffering yet again. My doctor did not agree with me when I said I wanted to taper slowly. He scoffed and said that is the worst thing to do so I ended up collecting my scripts and doing it my way.  You can recover and feel so much better but it will take time. I wonder what she would put you on next when that failed? 

Edited August 22, 2017 by mammaP

[Kmdr]

mammaP,

 

I spoke to her today via phone about staying on 20 mg after week two instead of going down to 10 and not surprisingly she disagreed. Doctors always want to rush things. It amazes me and really makes me think it's allllll about money. She said to see how it goes and we'll talk when I go in for my appointment in two weeks.

 

Other drugs she mentioned I could try were Abilify, Lamictal or TMS. I was like no, no and no. Done trying anything else, which will only continue this vicious cycle with my nervous system.

[Skeeter]

Kmdr,

I hate to hit you with another question, hopefully it will be easy!  I want to make sure with your pas t health issues, that you are not needing any prescription meds, supplements, or vitamins, as some really innocent sounding vitamins can really rev up the Central Nervous System while in withdrawal!

You have a significant medical history (open heart surgery for one, at a young age), are you prescribed or told by your doctor to take any other OTC or prescription medications, supplements or vitamins daily by a doctor, or take anything (including vitamins, supplements, etc) on your own that you have not disclosed already?   If there are any, start with those prescribed by a doctor, then advise which you take on your own, if any.  Please, for prescriptions include drug, dosage, and how many times per day (for example: ASA 71mg 2x/day) so a drug interactions report can be run via drugs.com.  Sometimes it can explain unusual side effects with any past or current prescribed drugs already listed.

Thank you!

Skeeter                                                                                                                                                                                                         

`

[Kmdr]

Skeeter,

 

I don't take any other prescription drugs.

Supplements OTC: 1 Multivitamin (started on own), 1 Vitamin C (started on own), 1 Vitamin B-12 (doctor mentioned), 2 Fish Oil (doctor mentioned), 1 Magnesium (doctor mentioned), 1 Vitamin D (doctor mentioned).

[Skeeter]

Kmdr,

Great!  Thank you for replying so quickly.  I am going to provide you links on the vitamins you are taking that you may find interesting.  Please know that if you have issues with anxiety, I have heard (read) and experienced greater anxiety while taking  B vitamins, if you so chose to try taking a vacation from that, and notice only a small difference, or none, the second one to try taking a vacation from is the multivitamin.  Since it has everything all mixed in, you cannot be sure which of the vitamins is "helping" your anxiety along. The brain/Central Nervous System tends to be more sensitive when in withdrawal, so we try to remove all of the possible causes, as anxiety is such a troublesome emotion to deal with.   It was certainly one of the worst emotions I dealt with.  Once you are free and clear of withdrawal, you can try adding things in slowly, one at a time, and allow some time before adding the next one in.  Unless you have been told you are deficient in a vitamin, these can generally wait as you work through withdrawal.

Okay Links:

Be right back, hve to answer a phone call!

 

This next link is regarding vitamin B12, read the second post and read the quote specifically about B12 and withdrawal:

As for Vitamin C and Vitamin D, I was not able to find much except the occasional person having an issue with vitamin D ( or having too much vitamin D), but it is an important one. Nothing about Vitamin C thus far, but will keep looking, and I am sure any mods who see this will add information if I have missed anything.  You can ALWAYS cut out the vitamin for a little while to see if you notice a difference. Please do not stop more than one vitamin at a time, give it some time to clear your system, then drop another.  The most activating would probably be vitamin B12 if you are having anxiety issues currently. Note, some people even so find that things change, and even magnesium and fish oil can be activating in some people during withdrawal, but from all of the reading I have done, it has usually been one or the other of those two, but everyone is different.

 

This is a little sarcastic, but why do I think that your clinician will disagree with returning you to 20mg even if you are miserable in 2 weeks.  I am sorry you are in this situation

NOTE:  If by chance she tries to switch you to back to 20mg, talk to us first, as it is not good for your CNS to ping pong do your dose to 20mg, and we will help you with the doses, just let us know if she does try to ping pong you back up.

 

Be well!

Skeeter

Edited August 23, 2017 by Skeeter
Added supplements

[mammaP]

15 hours ago, Kmdr said:

mammaP,

 

I spoke to her today via phone about staying on 20 mg after week two instead of going down to 10 and not surprisingly she disagreed. Doctors always want to rush things. It amazes me and really makes me think it's allllll about money. She said to see how it goes and we'll talk when I go in for my appointment in two weeks.

 

Other drugs she mentioned I could try were Abilify, Lamictal or TMS. I was like no, no and no. Done trying anything else, which will only continue this vicious cycle with my nervous system.

If you are feeling better on 20mg prozac you will need to stand firm. Take a deep breath and explain calmly and respectfully that you are happy on 20mg and want to keep it that way. You don't have to mention tapering off later.  

[Kmdr]

6 hours ago, Skeeter said:

Kmdr,

Great!  Thank you for replying so quickly.  I am going to provide you links on the vitamins you are taking that you may find interesting.  Please know that if you have issues with anxiety, I have heard (read) and experienced greater anxiety while taking  B vitamins, if you so chose to try taking a vacation from that, and notice only a small difference, or none, the second one to try taking a vacation from is the multivitamin.  Since it has everything all mixed in, you cannot be sure which of the vitamins is "helping" your anxiety along. The brain/Central Nervous System tends to be more sensitive when in withdrawal, so we try to remove all of the possible causes, as I is such a troublesome emotion to deal with. t,  It was certainly one of the worst emotions I dealt with.

 

This is a little sarcastic, but why do I think that your clinician will disagree with returning you to 20mg even if you are miserable in 2 weeks.  I am sorry you are in this situation.

Thank for the feedback, Streeter. I read a lot about how these supplements could help but it's a valid point that they could be hindering the process. The lesson one takes the easier to pinpoint some of the reasons for specific effects. I'll going to try to get off the B-12. Good idea. How long would it take to notice a difference anxiety wise, if it's affecting me on? And about your sarcasm it's understandable ha. Because it's Western medicine and everything is rushed to find the quick fix. I believed in all of this for years but never put my beliefs into practice out of fear of it not being the norm. Glad I'm trying this new approach.

 

Altostrata, thanks for the link. I have seen that before and always thought it was too much to take. Currently, I only take 2 pills a day with one pill containing 652mg EPA and 440mg DHA. Looks like I need to additional take 2-3 per day. Does it matter if I take it all at the same time or should I space it out? 

Edited August 23, 2017 by Skeeter

[Kmdr]

22 minutes ago, mammaP said:

If you are feeling better on 20mg prozac you will need to stand firm. Take a deep breath and explain calmly and respectfully that you are happy on 20mg and want to keep it that way. You don't have to mention tapering off later.  

mammaP, two weeks isn't even that long of a time so whether I feel good or not I will give it more time. She's easy to talk to and understands my frustrations so that does help my situation.

[mammaP]

If ypou have adverse effects you might want to drop back a little bit.    

[Skeeter]

Kmdr,

I added more to my post above.  I got sidetracked, and in that time you had a lot going on here in your thread.  I can tell you after taking B vitamins when I was well that I personal stopped feeling the kick of the b vitamins within a few days,  A CNS in withdrawal is a whole different ball game, so let us wee if another mod will step in here and tell us if they know, and I will also look it up here.  I assume that you are taking normal pills you would buy prepackaged at a store, and are not taking more than they suggest, you should know within a week, but here is the thing.  For ANYONE in withdrawal, we do not suggest taking anything but fish oil and Magnesium the entire time while in withdrawal,  Do NOT stop all pills at once, though we do obviously suggest continuing Mag and Fish Oil during WD unless you have an issue with one or both.  We know that you feel awful (or can feel just awful, and so we try to be as gentle as possible, as we do not want to shock your CNS any more than we need to.  Since these are OTC vitamins (let me know if they are not), perhaps dropping one pill a week will work okay.  I will check with the other mods though.  This is YOUR DECISION though.  As a whole over the years this site has ben online, and guidance from sites before us, and talking to clinicians, and getting information from books about withdrawal, people just seem to do better when kept on the basics unless they have a known deficiency.  Let me ask the other mods on this regarding stopping.  While I do that, can you tell me how long you have been on these vitamins, approximate  time is fine.  You will hear from me or another mod regarding stopping the extra supplements that you wish to stop taking. Once you have decided what you re going to keep taking, whether it be the 2 we suggest, or others as well, you can add a line to your signature that states what vitamins you take so we can see at a glance.  If it were me, I would be cautious about what I take during withdrawal, but we all feel differently. How do you feel about only being on the 2 supplements we know that tend to be vwry calming and helpful to the CNS? It is not my intention to ask you to do something you do not want to (such as stopping all vitamins if you do not wish to only stay on Mag and fish oil), or to ask you to go against your doctor.  Sadly we have found that they do not always(or in my own experience, EVER know anything about the body in benzo or AD WD).  But it is still your decision.  Let me know wht you think.

 

Now you speak about western medicine, as in western medicine vs something else.  My background (NOT A DOCTOR) is totally in western medicine, and my beliefs are still there, but I am much more careful about my decisions now, and do research on what the doctors tell me, because I want to make sure I am making the best decision I can for my body.  Here you are dealing with a lot of people who are very sensitive to everything, which is why we make the statement about only suggesting those 2 supplements, and nothing else, until you know what your body can handle well.  I was so sensitive to food and almost everything when I went thought my horrific 18 months,  Now I am taking a break, and feeling much better, but I have a long road in front of me yet, so I am not going to start taking anything I will have to stop, but if I am low on energy, I may take OTC vitamins, but I know I will stop when I taper.

 

Be well!

Skeeter 

Edited August 23, 2017 by Skeeter

[Kmdr]

Skeeter, 

I'm comfortable eliminating the B12 for some time to see if anything occurs. Slow and steady. Maybe the Multivitamin next. I'll stick with the Magnesium and Fish Oil for sure as well as the Vitamin C/D.

 

I'm confused by this:

You state "NOTE: If by chance she tries to switch you to back to 20mg, talk to us first, as it is not good for your CNS to ping pong do your dose to 20mg, and we will help you with the doses, just let us know if she does try to ping pong you back up."

 

Another mod, mammap mentioned to stay on 20 mg after two weeks if I'm feeling better but to drop back a little if I have adverse effects. Now, I believe you're mentioning not to stay on 20 mg  no matter what the case due to it not being good for my CNS to ping pong back up. These sound like conflicting opinions from two different mods.  I'm sure this can be possible but sorry it only confuses me more.

[mammaP]

Hi again KM, I think Skeeter might be thinking you are already reduced to 10mg.  Are you still at 20? 

You should be ok with stopping the B12 and the multi.  C and D  should be ok, I don't think I have seen any reports of reactions to those. 

 

 

[Kmdr]

6 minutes ago, mammaP said:

Hi again KM, I think Skeeter might be thinking you are already reduced to 10mg.  Are you still at 20? 

You should be ok with stopping the B12 and the multi.  C and D  should be ok, I don't think I have seen any reports of reactions to those. 

 

 

Yes, still on 20 mg. I update my withdrawal history to make it clearer on what I'm currently taking. Thanks.

[AliG]

How are you feeling? How long do you plan on staying on 20 mg? Are you feeling stable now?

[Kmdr]

1 hour ago, AliG said:

How are you feeling? How long do you plan on staying on 20 mg? Are you feeling stable now?

Hi AliG,

 

I feel a little better but still dealing with trouble sleeping (fall asleep fine but wake up multiple times sometimes nightmare related sometimes not), trouble concentrating, anxious/nervous/, irrational thoughts/panicky moments, irritable/agitated.  Appears to be many anxiety related symptoms. When I get a good night of sleeping, I feel pretty good the following day as my anxiety is lower. Sleeping has a huge impact on that front. My mood is low but trending up as it's not as low as it was four days ago when I wasn't on anything. I don't expect to see miraculous changes in 4 days medication wise as everything takes time. I will say though, I'm much more upbeat and interested in things that I like to do on a normal every day basis. This is a good sign. I've started to practice self-compassion and acceptance practices in my daily life and I feel like they have helped more then anything. Plan on staying on 20 mg for 2 weeks then my doctor wants to lower my dose to 10 mg. We'll see how I feel at that moment. Overall mood appears to be improving, anxiety is up and down. 

[AliG]

That sounds great until the doctor part. Seriously just because he wants to drop your dose so suddenly - it doesn't make it right. If I were you I would educate myself so as not to need the doctor - except for the script. Eventually you won't need that .

 

That is much too great a drop and we really don't recommend that-  a 50 % drop is TOTALLY destabilizing .Maybe you can educate him and get him on your side.

 

If you are feeling good then you are indeed lucky and need to HOLD for a good long while. 

[Kmdr]

AliG,

I'm hopeful that improvement continues. We'll see. But yes, 50% increases and decreases in dosage have been the norm in the past year with many different medications. No wonder why I have dealt with so many side effects. I'd love to be off of medication all together but it needs to be when I'm feeling good for a while and this hasn't been the case since I started all of the different medications for the past year.  I had some good weeks here and there but nothing consistent.  Just have to go slow, remain sensible and see what happens. 

[Altostrata]

Kmdr, you went back on Prozac only a few days ago. It will take at least 4 days for it to reach steady-state in your system. If it helps, improvement may be gradual.

 

Did you start feeling a little better after reinstating? Please let us know how you're doing.

 

If you do not find a rapport with this doctor or APRN, any doctor can prescribe these drugs. 

 

Fish oil is best taken in divided doses, as is magnesium.

[Kmdr]

Altostrata,

 

Yes. I have felt better since reinstating the prozac. The doctor is new so we'll see what happens. I'm going to call her tomorrow and get a prescription to stay on the 20 mg for now since I'm  trending in the right direction. I doubt she has a problem with this. Overall, it's not ideally what I want to do, but I don't think I'm ready/it's wise to start tapering off, yet.

[Kmdr]

Even though I feel better mood wise, the Prozac has made my anxiety worse as it's sky high, I'm easily irritable and agitated, on-edge type of feeling. Prozac has a stimulating effect on me, similar to when I took it before. My doctor recommended either dealing with the side effects for another week or so and see what happens or go down to 10 mg. She left the decision up to me and I'm pondering my choices. Any suggestions or advice would help. Thanks.

[baroquep]

Hi Kmdr, a lot of people find Prozac stimulating.  If you are not able to wait out the symptoms and decide to reduce the Prozac, I would recommend that you Do it very slowly.  A 10mg reduction is likely to make things worse than they are now.  You have only been on the 20mg for just over a week and it oftentimes takes longer to see the benefits of a reinstatement.  Reducing by a very small amount rather than 10mg will be a lot easier on your central nervous system.  Even in very small doses, these drugs are powerful and the slower you go back down the better.

[Kmdr]

Have been on Prozac 20 mg for two weeks now. Started off feeling a little better after a week or so but last two days have been tough, extreme anxiety/panic---this leads to rumination, negative thoughts, trouble concentrating, forgetfulness, irritability, agitation, lightheaded, depersonalization, trouble sleeping, waking up with dread feeling (have had this for months though) Each day I continue to do deep breathing, meditation, pushing through the day exercising, trying to do things that I like but it's a constant struggle. See a psychologist weekly. It's been two weeks on Prozac, a short time, I know, but just wanted to give an update. Not sure if I should stay on prozac and give it more time, start to go down very slowly or cross-taper to lexapro (only SSRI that I was on long term that worked best).

 

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, Kmdr said:

only SSRI that I was on long term that worked best

 

Just because it worked previously doesn't mean it will work the next time.  You've made a lot of changes in the last year.

 

I have found Magnesium helps to take the edge of my anxiety.  There have been several times where I have not taken it for a short period and the anxiety increased, but reduced when I started back on it.

 

Some people find Omega-3 Fish Oil helpful.

 

These supplements are the only ones that SA recommends.

 

If you are going to try anything new, try one thing at a time and start with a low dose and build up, before trying the next one.  If you try 2 new things at once and have an issue you won't know what is causing the problem.  This ends up taking more time because you have to stop both, wait for things to settle and then try each one separately.  I am speaking from personal experience!

[Kmdr]

2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Just because it worked previously doesn't mean it will work the next time.  You've made a lot of changes in the last year.

 

I have found Magnesium helps to take the edge of my anxiety.  There have been several times where I have not taken it for a short period and the anxiety increased, but reduced when I started back on it.

 

Some people find Omega-3 Fish Oil helpful.

 

These supplements are the only ones that SA recommends.

 

If you are going to try anything new, try one thing at a time and start with a low dose and build up, before trying the next one.  If you try 2 new things at once and have an issue you won't know what is causing the problem.  This ends up taking more time because you have to stop both, wait for things to settle and then try each one separately.  I am speaking from personal experience!

True. My best bet seems to be sticking with the Prozac at current dose even though its been tough. Feel like it's gonna be rough for awhile for me. I understand the switching dilemma because I have done so much cross-tapering the past year, you can't tell if  adverse reactions are withdrawal of the old medication or side effects of the new one. Amazing how doctors switch medications so quickly trying to find a quick fix and making it much worse in the end.

[Kmdr]

Rough it has gotten. Ended up having a panic attack today at work, had to take .25 xanax. Last time I was on prozac it took about 5 weeks to feel better but never suffered through this panic/anxiety as much as I have been the past week. Week 1 was alright. Week 2 got a little worse. and Week 3 the prozac zombie brain fog, depersonailization, lethargy etc. kicked in and now on day 19 of prozac (22 off viibryd) just feel good awful and wondering if I should go down in dose or continue to fight though and take xanax as needed until I stablilize. Anu suggestions would help. Thanks.

[baroquep]

Hi Kmdr, I think your best bet would be to try and persevere.  While I know it is difficult, especially when we have to go to work everyday, because you have made so many changes over the last year, especially considering the numerous cross-tapers, it is going to take your central nervous system (CNS) a lot longer to stabilize than most.  In my opinion if you make another change at this time, your are going to set yourself back as this will be just one more thing for your CNS to have to adjust to.  

 

Right now, your CNS is very fragile and if I were you, I would give it at least three months to see if your symptoms start to calm down.  In the meantime I would suggest you try to incorporate non-drug methods of dealing with the anxiety and panic and am attaching a couple of links that may give you a few ideas.

 

 I found that high doses of omega 3 and magnesium helped to calm my CNS and helped with relaxation.  When the anxiety got really bad when I destabilized in February, I ended up taking a week off of work, cut out coffee and all supplements with the exception of Omega 3 and magnesium and the week off seemed to do the trick.  I was able to just be still for the week without the stressors at work and regroup and it did me a world of good.  I also spent the week reading as much as I could on antidepressant withdrawal so I could understand what was going on with me and what I could do to make things a lot more comfortable for myself.  

 

You will find a lot of good information in the forum at the link below and hope that you are able to find something there to help you through the rough spots.  The fewer changes you make at this point, the better.   

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/forum/8-symptoms-and-self-care/

 

[Kmdr]

I tend to agree. Just really hard to get through the days right now. Many of those things you attached I have done and still do, but some I don't, so thank you. Mindfulness, Meditation, Deep Breathing and exercising are daily activities I do. I have read so much literature on this topic but I think re-reading could help. It's tough when you're doing a lot right but don't feel good. That's when the negative thoughts creep in and make it worse. That's what happened yesterday, usually I can control my anxiety naturally but yesterday irrational thoughts spiraled everything out of control. Thanks for the suggestions. 

[baroquep]

I know how difficult it can be, believe me, I was where you are now back in February.  I used to find in mentally exhausting trying to keep it together at work sometimes. Was reassured by ChessieCat that my CNS would eventually stabilize and to try not to fight it.  Think once I learned to accept that it was all a part of the process and to cultivate as much patience as I could muster up, things got a lot better.  One thing that helped me deal with the ruminating thoughts was to tell myself that it was just withdrawal playing around with my brain and that it would pass.  It seemed to tone the intensity down a bit.  Hang in there, I'm here to reassure you that things do get better even when we think they never will.

 

Best,

BaroqueP