Terry: withdrawing from Xanax and Zoloft

[Altostrata]

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/
http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/15483-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

 

A lot of people find them helpful. Try a little bit of one at a time to see how it affects you.

[Terry]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

Many people do better with fish oil and magnesium supplements

I have been taking fish oil (360 mg EPA and 240 mg DHA) and magnesium (175 mg) as part of a calcium supplement for a long time.

[Altostrata]

You probably will want to take more fish oil and magnesium, please read the links.

 

You may wish to discontinue the calcium part, it cancels the calming effect of the magnesium.

[RachelSusan]

...

2 hours ago, Terry said:

I may be paying for tapering too fast during my first year.

Or you may be one of the lucky ones that can move a little fast.  I don't mean to say you are lucky, you have been through your share of it, I just mean in this case you may be able to move a little quicker than me.

RS

[Terry]

41 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

You probably will want to take more fish oil and magnesium, please read the links.

 

You may wish to discontinue the calcium part, it cancels the calming effect of the magnesium.

I've been diagnosed as having osteoporosis, so I feel I need the plant-sourced calcium complex I take.  Perhaps I could take a little more magnesium.

[Altostrata]

Please research supplements for osteoporosis. You get calcium through vegetables.

[Terry]

9 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Please research supplements for osteoporosis. You get calcium through vegetables.

 

What I take is a plant-based product derived from algae.   In a 12 month study of 414 participants the increase in bone density among post-menopausal women was 1.3%. 

 

"Three groups of post-menopausal women each took different (brand hidden) formulations with all groups increasing bone density at one year. The smallest average increase among the 3 groups was 1.3% – an extraordinary result since traditional calcium supplements do not increase bone density. This comparative effectiveness study measured bone density via DEXA scan at baseline and then again at 6 months and one year. (Brand hidden) results were compared to published data on traditional calcium supplements BMD scores."

 

I don't think I meet my calcium needs through diet alone, thus the supplement.

 

Edited October 22, 2018 by ChessieCat
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[Terry]

Most of my WD is now tolerable except for the fatigue.  I just don't seem to have any energy at all.  On average I sleep maybe 6 (interrupted) hours, sometimes a little more, but awaken tired.  By mid-afternoon I'm sleepy and occasionally drift off while praying.  By dinnertime I can barely function.  It takes real effort to put a decent meal on the table.  I look forward to being able to lie down during the evening to watch TV, and often fall asleep.  I'm wondering how I'll have enough energy to host Christmas for my children and grandchildren.

[Terry]

It's hard to imagine ever feeling better. 😟  Anxiety and burning skin are with me most of the time now. Brain fog, fatigue, and insomnia are constant companions.  Between the drugs and the insomnia, I fear losing my mental capacity.   I'm also dealing with physical pain due to arthritis and scoliosis.  Plus, we are in the process of trying to sell our home, which is stressful.  We will be moving to a senior living co-op in June, which will hopefully mean less stress once we are there.  

[Terry]

Is there anyway to predict when it will be safe to quit sertraline?  I know I'm not near that point, but I would like to at least have something to look forward to.  Wish I could be done then, but it'll be on to the alprazolam taper.  I'm 75 years old and hope I'm done with these drugs before I die.  😣  I really want to feel better at some point than I do now.

[Carmie]

Hi Terry, 

 

I’m sorry that you’re suffering from burning skin and your other symptoms. You are tapering too quickly, you haven’t been holding long enough. You dropped from 2.50mg to 2.25mg after holding for only 16 day. You need to hold at least four weeks. Your holds are too short. 

 

When you stabilise again please hold longer after each taper. I’ve had short holds in the past too when I knew nothing about tapering, and the withdrawals were really bad. Not only that, but all the short holds also have an accumulative affect. It can catch up with us, and then it can take a long time to stabilise. Please be careful.

 

I’m glad you’ll have less stress when you move, less stress is always a plus when it comes to withdrawals.

 

Wishing you all the best with your continued tapering 💚

 

 

[Gracee]

On 3/1/2019 at 12:19 PM, Terry said:

.  I'm 75 years old and hope I'm done with these drugs before I die.  😣  I really want to feel better at some point than I do now.

 

Hi @Terry, I have been following your thread and completely understand your thinking.   I will turn 74 next month and often think I'll still be tapering on my way to the grave.  Best wishes to you.

G.

[Terry]

1 hour ago, Carmie said:

You are tapering too quickly, you haven’t been holding long enough.

Most of the time I've been tapering by 10% every 4 weeks.  From Jan 16 to Feb 14 I tapered a total of 7.5% to see how that would go.  Since it didn't seem to make any difference with WD symptoms I decided to go back to a 10% cut.  I'm not sure how that is too fast.

[Terry]

1 hour ago, Gracee said:

I will turn 74 next month and often think I'll still be tapering on my way to the grave.

 

Thanks for stopping by, Gracee.  I've wondered whether I'm the oldest person on this forum, but I'm glad to see someone else is close to my age.  I was hoping I could be done with these drugs and still have some kind of life for whatever time I have left on this earth.

 

Warm wishes to you!

[Carmie]

Hi again Terry, 

 

I was just looking at the fact that you made a 10% drop from  2.5mg to 2.25mg when you hadn’t held very long since the last drop. I can only taper by 4% or so myself. I actually won’t be jumping off my meds until I’m down to 0.0something or lower as I feel every drop. There’s one member on here that’s down to 0.000something and still suffering from withdrawals. That’s the exception though. You’ll be off the meds way before me, I’ll look forward to reading your success story. 🏆

 

Is your burning skin any better? There are quite a few people on here that have that symptom. I’m sorry you have scoliosis and arthritis too. I really hope that you are able to relax more in your new abode. Do they have a swimming pool at the senior co op? I looove water💦💦

 

Take care, sending hugs🤗

 

 

[Terry]

Thanks for your response, Carmie.  The burning skin at this point is mostly very mild.  I'm on day 18 of my latest taper and the last few days have been pretty good.  WD seems to be tolerable.  Right now I'm trying to slog through brain fog.  It's like trying to wade through thick mud or deep snow.  But I keep trying to do my puzzles.  I do New York Times crosswords, sudoku, cryptoquips, and other word games.  I like them for the distraction and to exercise my "lame" brain.  I feel like I'm losing brain cells left and right.  I wonder if it's the drugs or my age.  Maybe both.  😕

 

Our new co-op will be very nice, but there's no pool.  That would've been really special.

 

Once I'm finished tapering sertraline I'll have to begin reducing alprazolam, so I still have a long journey ahead.

 

Hope you are doing well and wishing you many "windows"!

[Carmie]

I’m so glad to hear your symptoms are tolerable Terry, 

 

That’s great that the burning skin is only mild. I’ve haven’t had burning skin so far, but I had a burning mouth for many months in the past. At the time I didn’t know much about withdrawals, and thought I had burning mouth syndrome. Since finding SA I realise that nearly every new symptom I get is related to withdrawals: earaches, toothaches, sore throats etc etc.

 

 Brain fog is definitely no fun, I’m sorry you have it. I’ve had it pretty bad for 25 years because of CFS. I had it before the medications and withdrawals. I’m not sure what it even feels like not to have it. I love word games too, I love crosswords and other puzzles. It’s such a lovely distraction. Time really flies when you’re doing words games and puzzles because you get so involved and can’t put them down. Definitely a wonderful thing to do when going through withdrawals.

 

I’m glad your new co op is nice. What, no swimming pool??🤣🤣 It gets quite cold where you live, doesn’t it? You’d probably need an indoor heated pool.

 

Wishing you all the best in your continued tapering journey 💚

[Terry]

13 hours ago, Carmie said:

It gets quite cold where you live, doesn’t it? You’d probably need an indoor heated pool.

The temperature here at 7:00 this morning was 9 below zero.  Yes, we would certainly need an indoor pool. 

[Terry]

Update:  I had been doing reasonably well until my recent taper of 2.2%.  On the afternoon of day five I began having burning skin, chills, increased anxiety, and depression.  Strangely, the night before I had one of my best nights of sleep, so thought I was doing OK.  Now insomnia is back in varying degrees, and the other WD symptoms continue.  I don't know if I should go back to my previous level of sertraline (2.25 mg) or try to tough it out.  My intention was to do a brass-monkey taper, and I would have done another cut today, but that didn't seem wise.

 

I went to my book club this morning, tried to act normal, not sure if I succeeded.  It's hard to put on a happy face.  

 

My big fear with all of this is that I'll never feel good again.

[Altostrata]

Those waves are so frustrating.

 

Could be  your nervous system asking you to hold for a while. You've been reducing steadily (well done!) Otherwise, I might split the difference and go back to 2.22mg.

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

 

 

[Terry]

15 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Could be  your nervous system asking you to hold for a while.

Why does it seem harder to taper at low dosages?  I would really like to do a hold when I get to 2 mg sertraline, then begin a taper of the alprazolam.  I have heard how benzos can do long-term damage and I would like to get clear of this drug sooner rather than later.  

[ChessieCat]

Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

 

[Altostrata]

Can't argue  with your nervous system. Don't worry about the benzo.

[Terry]

I started to try the brass monkey slide on Mar 13 with a dose of 2.20 mg. sertraline and after 12 days tapered to 2.15 mg.  However, WD got worse so I reverted to the 2.20 dose.  It's 4 weeks now since I started at 2.20 mg and things haven't improved.  My sleep is awful and I wake during the night with burning skin and the anxiety that always goes with it.   The sleep deficit along with the stress of selling our house is wearing me to a frazzle.  With brain fog and anxiety it's hard to function.  Hoping to have a window or two (or more!) sometime soon.  I need hope that I can get through this, when my body seems to tell me I'm stuck in this place.  I want to be able to taper again, but don't know if I dare, or how good I should feel before doing that.

[Terry]

I don't understand this.  Even though I've been holding for nearly a month at 2.2 mg I seem to be getting worse rather than stabilizing.  My brain fog makes thinking so hard!  I have a constant headache, my skin is burning and my sleep is terrible.  And all of this is coming when we are in the process of selling our home.  I don't know how I will ever be able to get ready to move to our new place. 😢

 

How long should I try to hold at this level?  If any of the mods have suggestions I would be grateful to hear them.

[Terry]

Update:  I have been seeing a functional medicine doctor for a couple of weeks.  He has put me on a modified paleo diet and added several supplements, primarily for detoxing and inflammation.  Since my sleep is so poor he wants to test my neurotransmitters.  I would like to know those results, but not sure I want to have more supplements.  I know the mods seem to discourage supplements except for fish oil and magnesium.  I'm wondering if anyone here has had their neurotransmitters tested and what help was received from it.

[ChessieCat]

I suggest you check out BrassMonkey's posts: 

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

When trying something new it is important to take a small amount and only introduce/change one thing at a time.  If more than one thing is tried at the same time, eg a complex, if issues arise then it is almost impossible to know the cause.

 

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

As for the tests, to me that sounds like the chemical imbalance, which was proved to be a myth at least 20 years ago. 

 

again-chemical-imbalance-is-a-myth-stop-the-lies-please

 

important-topics-about-tests-supplements-treatments-diet

 

dont-waste-your-money-on-these-supplements

 

I know Alto is human and doesn't know everything, but she has been investigating and researching psychiatric drug withdrawal etc for many years.  If she knew of something that worked I don't doubt for one minute that she would be telling us all about it.

 

invalid-urine-testing-for-neurotransmitters-in-the-brain

 

Especially this comment:

 

On 11/10/2012 at 6:34 AM, Altostrata said:

 

It's a long way from the bladder to the brain.

 

Sorry, alex, this sounds like the neurotranmitter urine tests that have no validity.

 

Your doctor's intention to balance neurotransmitters confirms this.

 

 

[Terry]

Thanks, Chessie, for all the information.  It has helped to solidify my opinion of neurotransmitter testing.  I think my doctor's advice about eating well, lots of veggies, good protein, etc. is solid.  Some of my blood tests showed certain levels that were less than optimal, so supplements MAY be helpful.   I'll have to decline the neurotransmitter testing though, and may get some pushback from my doc.

[Altostrata]

I don't think much of neurotransmitter testing.

 

Are you still taking the benzo? What is your drug schedule? What is your sleep pattern?

[Rosetta]

Thank you for stopping by my thread recently.  I hope you are doing ok, that your sleep is getting better, and that getting ready to sell your house hasn't been too stressful.  Good job on the taper.  Take it slow from here on.  There's no rush.  ~Rosetta

[Terry]

@Rosetta  I was pleasantly surprised to hear from you.  I  have to report that we have sold our house after only one day on the market, and for more than our asking price!  Now the next hurdle is moving.  We have hired a company that will pack, move, and unpack our belongings.  It's pricey, but it's worth it to keep the stress level down.  As for my sleep, it's typically between 5 and 6 hours, but never in one piece.  The functional medicine doctor I see has been trying to address this issue since it's something I had before I was ever on an AD.  Would love, love, LOVE to have a 7 or 8 hour sleep.

 

I hope that you and your family had a nice time at your mother-in-law's house yesterday.  The cake you made for Father's day sounded delicious!  I hope you can continue doing OK.  Wishing you many bright, clear, and beautiful windows!

[Rosetta]

Great idea to use a moving company.  Just pack the fragile, important stuff yourself.  

 

I almost never get 7 hours in a row of sleep.  It's frustrating.  I'm not sure that it's normal to sleep 7-8 hours at once.  That would have left us vulnerable to predators and other people in the past.  There is something called "second sleep" in the literature of middle ages.  People would wake in the night for quite a while and do all sorts of things.  Of course, it was dark for many hours especially in the Winter.  Second sleep was after the middle of the night awake time.  Some people believe that artificial light and the hours we keep because of it has contributed to our sleep issues.  Add that to the troubles we have with protracted withdrawal and it's a real mess.  We need more rest than most people.

 

We did have a nice time, thank you.  

 

Rosetta

[Terry]

UPDATE:  We have made it through the sale of our home and the move to a cooperative about 5 miles away.   My husband had also arranged to have one or two foreign exchange students to stay with us for 8 days shortly after we moved in, which made things more difficult.  I was most unhappy with his doing that.  Fortunately, I didn't have to do a lot of meal prep for them, as they had most of their meals elsewhere. It has been a very stressful time and my fragile nervous system has felt it.  There have been the usual bad actors:  insomnia, anxiety, depression, burning skin, crying, brain fog, fatigue, lethargy.  But finally I've had windows the last couple of days, for which I'm very grateful.

 

I am currently at 1.75 mg sertraline.  At this low level are there any extra precautions I should take?  I've been doing the brass monkey slide and hope that it will be easier on my system.

 

Also, when I begin my alprazolam taper somewhere down the line, do I continue posting on this thread or start a new one?

 

Many thanks for any advice offered!

[Gridley]

19 minutes ago, Terry said:

 

I am currently at 1.75 mg sertraline.  At this low level are there any extra precautions I should take?  I've been doing the brass monkey slide and hope that it will be easier on my system.

 

Also, when I begin my alprazolam taper somewhere down the line, do I continue posting on this thread or start a new one?

 

Congratulations on getting so low.  At the low levels, it might be necessary to slow down a bit, perhaps holding longer on your Brassmonkey slide, or tapering a smaller weekly percentage.  Monitor your symptoms, and your body will tell you what to do.

 

You're still a ways off, but this link gives guidance on when to jump to zero.

 

When to end the taper and jump to zero?

 

It is best to taper as low as possible before jumping, if at all possible 0.1mg or smaller.  

 

When you start your alprazolam taper, you would start a new thread in our benzo forum and our benzo moderator, Step, will help you.

 

[Terry]

29 minutes ago, Gridley said:

You're still a ways off, but this link gives guidance on when to jump to zero.

 

When to end the taper and jump to zero?

Thanks, Gridley.  Unfortunately, this link didn't work.

[Gridley]

13 minutes ago, Terry said:

Thanks, Gridley.  Unfortunately, this link didn't work.

 

Sorry.  Try this:

When to end the taper and jump to zero? - Surviving Antidepressants

If you take a look at that link, Rhiannon (about nine posters down) talks about the need to go slowly at the very small doses.

Edited July 22, 2019 by Gridley