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Staz: Poly drugged & trying to get drug free

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Staz

Ugh!!

Insomnia has now struck. I managed to get 3-4 hours sleep after taking an antihistamine at 3am. I knew this was a likely outcome of reducing seroquel but had gotten away with disturbed nights sleep so far. I'll just have to ride it out.

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Kristine
On 11/01/2018 at 2:36 AM, Staz said:

I'm just in from my first day volunteering and despite me being a bit anxious about it it went ok. I passed a good deal of the day doing admin work and as a result my overall anxiety levels have dropped a lot from yesterday. I'm back in on Friday so will be working Weds, Fri and Mon. of every week.

Gosh Staz, this news put a big smile on my face. Really, well done!....not so good about the insomnia...but I think it is very strongly linked to seroquel w/d.  As you know I was taken off Seroquel XR 300mg fast!...and suffered terrible insomnia. My sleep has improved...I'm finding one of the worst things I can do is eat processed sugar after my evening meal.  I'm avoiding dessert 🙄. K 

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Staz
22 minutes ago, Kristine said:

Gosh Staz, this news put a big smile on my face. Really, well done!....not so good about the insomnia...but I think it is very strongly linked to seroquel w/d.  As you know I was taken off Seroquel XR 300mg fast!...and suffered terrible insomnia. My sleep has improved...I'm finding one of the worst things I can do is eat processed sugar after my evening meal.  I'm avoiding dessert

 

Hi Kristine.

How long did your insomnia from Seroquel last?

Interesting point about the sugar as i had some chocolate in the evening prior to going to bed. Seroquel has given me disturbed sleep as I've cut it but last night was the first time I've been unable to sleep when going to bed. By 3am and still no sleep I had to take some antihistamine which I did really want to resort to but needs must.

I don't want the insomnia to interfere with my new volunteering role if I can help it.

Steve

xx

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Kristine
17 minutes ago, Staz said:

How long did your insomnia from Seroquel last?

I've been looking back over my notes.  My hand writing is a mess.  I started the reductions (I'm not using the word taper because it was not a gradual taper) in August and took my last dose on the 1st September 2017 (3 weeks).  But I was on the slow release seroquel.  Are you on immediate release?  I had ongoing sleep issues after decreasing the clonazepam...so at first I wasn't sure what was causing what symptom.  However, 3 weeks after my last dose of Seroquel I experienced 14 days of relentless insomnia (maybe 10 hours sleep tops).  I hadn't experienced this before.  Then it settled.  You are on a smaller dose and you have been reducing it slowly, so I doubt this will happen to you.   I'd avoid sugar...just in case (easier said than done!).  K 

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Staz
2 minutes ago, Kristine said:

I've been looking back over my notes.  My hand writing is a mess.  I started the reductions (I'm not using the word taper because it was not a gradual taper) in August and took my last dose on the 1st September 2017 (3 weeks).  But I was on the slow release seroquel.  Are you on immediate release?  I had ongoing sleep issues after decreasing the clonazepam...so at first I wasn't sure what was causing what symptom.  However, 3 weeks after my last dose of Seroquel I experienced 14 days of relentless insomnia (maybe 10 hours sleep tops).  I hadn't experienced this before.  Then it settled.  You are on a smaller dose and you have been reducing it slowly, so I doubt this will happen to you.   I'd avoid sugar...just in case (easier said than done!).  K 

I'm on the immediate release and thanks for checking. Yes I have been going slower but I think it's catching up with me now so a hold maybe needed. I'll avoid sugar as you suggest too which may have made things worse. Thanks for your help.

Steve

xxxx

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Staz

I've been tapering from 150mg since July/August 17. I'm getting toward the end on my taper now and to date have had some disturbed sleep, low level anxiety etc. but for the first time last night experienced insomnia to the point i got up at 3am and took an antihistamine which gave me 3 hours or so of sleep.

Does anyone know how long insomnia lasts with this med and what's the otc meds that help with the insomnia/

Staz

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dukke

Seems you are tapering too fast. You are obviously tapering more than 10% every month.

From what I know how fast you can tapper and how long you'll experience significant withdrawal symptoms from tapering too fast depends on how long you've been taking the drug. The less time you've taken the drug the faster you can tapper and the fewer withdrawal symptoms you'll experience.

I've taken Seroquel for about 7 years before starting to tapper, the highest dose was 300mg. In the beginning I was able to tapper by even more than 25% with few side effects but when I reached a bit more than 58mg I couldn't tapper more than 10%.. it seems, and reports from other people also confirm this, the lower the dosage the harder it is to tapper.

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Altostrata

Please heed dukke, Staz. We've told you several times you're tapering too fast.

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Staz
On 14/01/2018 at 11:49 PM, dukke said:

Seems you are tapering too fast. You are obviously tapering more than 10% every month.

From what I know how fast you can tapper and how long you'll experience significant withdrawal symptoms from tapering too fast depends on how long you've been taking the drug. The less time you've taken the drug the faster you can tapper and the fewer withdrawal symptoms you'll experience.

I've taken Seroquel for about 7 years before starting to tapper, the highest dose was 300mg. In the beginning I was able to tapper by even more than 25% with few side effects but when I reached a bit more than 58mg I couldn't tapper more than 10%.. it seems, and reports from other people also confirm this, the lower the dosage the harder it is to tapper

Hi Dukke,

I've taken Seroquel for just over 14 months now. I started at 75mg to cover insomnia from an a/d start up. I wasn't told it was an antipsychotic and it would help me sleep. I continued until May 17 then it was upped to 150mg xr for a few months but had no effect at all on my depresssion so it was changed back to 150mg IR late July and I've been dropping ever since. I managed to get to 25mg without any huge problems developing and held there for a month. Over the Christmas Holiday I started cutting by approx 1mg a day using liquid. I've had the odd day of anxiety here and there, disturbed sleep and recently one night of insomnia with my normal sleep reducing to 4-5 hours per night on occasions. However once I got below 15mg my clarity of thought became better and my mood has improved a bit despite the sleep issues. When I have a sleep problem I try melatonin or an otc antihistmaine which helps. I normally feel a cut day 2 or 3 afterwards as a rule.

I know I'm cutting faster than the 10% rule but I know of others on this board who have cut more quickly with no problem while others do get problems so for me it's a case of listen to your body.

I'm keen to get off this class of med as they are dangerous and shouldn't have been prescribed for sleep at all. When this taper has ended and my sleep is normalised for a month or so I will be starting my valium taper and having had previous experience of this I'll be starting that very cautiously at 5% per month to start with. It is the real enemy drug wise as far as I'm concerned.

I'm also on two other sedating drugs mirtazapine and dosulepin but they will be dealt with in turn post benzo taper and recovery.

What side effects are you getting from cutting at 10%?

Cheers

Staz

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Staz

Quetiapine now stopped. I'm noticing disturbed sleep, some minor anxiety issues but clearer thinking and less depression. This started as I went below about 15mg.

My last 25mg I started tapering Christmas Day at 1mg per day and won't be touching any antipsychotic again.

Once I've had a few months to adjust and recover I will be starting my Valium taper and listening to my body as I go. I'm going to use the tablet and liquid combo to do a daily microtaper starting cautiously at 5% reduction per month then to 10% if I find it tolerable.

Cheers

Staz

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Staz

Day two of no Seroquel and I've just done a 7 hour shift at my local heritage railway as a volunteer. Sleep is still disturbed, some manageable anxiety and plenty of tension in my neck and shoulders but really no different to when I was tapering off TBH. I managing sleep through melatonin and alternating it with otc antihistamines so I'm getting 6-7 hours of sleep a night currently. The one thing I've noticed is my tinnitus in my left ear has been worsening through the last part of my taper. I had tinnitus before any meds as a result of playing with firearms in my late teens and early 20's but it's just ramped up a bit. I managing better than I thought I would do and this process has proved far easier than coming off of Lyrica.

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dukke

My side-effects are poor sleep.

One year on Seroquel sounds like a short period so you'll have a much easier time than me tapering.

I was able to tapper the other drugs really quick with basically no side effects at all, Seroquel is the real killer for me.  I'm also very sensitive to poor sleep, been having sleep induced problems all my life.

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Staz
19 hours ago, dukke said:

My side-effects are poor sleep.

One year on Seroquel sounds like a short period so you'll have a much easier time than me tapering.

I was able to tapper the other drugs really quick with basically no side effects at all, Seroquel is the real killer for me.  I'm also very sensitive to poor sleep, been having sleep induced problems all my life.

Hi dukke.

It was poor sleep that was my concern. Friday night I managed 5 hours without any additional antihistamines or melatonin and the same last night which isn't too bad all things considered as I'm only 4 days off but not taking anything for granted as things could get worse before they get better. The main impact has been a slight loss of sleep and chronic fatigue. When I'm over the Seroquel it will be the benzo taper next but I'm recovering from Seroquel fully first. Are you still taking lorazepam?

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Staz

Day 5 of being Seroquel free today. Slept ok but had some anxiety and low level depresion but that's been with me longer than the Seroquel (benzos induced I suspect). My daughter has been very ill for a few months now and that's added to the stress but nothing I can directly attribute to Seroquel w/d's as yet apart from minor sleep disturbances.

 

If things keep going like this I'll be thinking of starting my benzo taper in March. Fingers crossed.

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Downbutnotout

You actually sound optimistic. Is that true? 

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dukke

Hi Staz,

 

No, lorazepam was the first thing to go. I was able to quit cold turkey on that, no side-effects. Be careful though, each person is different.

 

One thing that really helps me with depression and I bet with tapering off the psych meds is to do physical exercise, and a good diet. If you're not able to do much physical exercise right now, start with walking outside. I believe this is really key to fighting depression.

I can say I haven't felt depressed, anxious, etc in a long time and believe me when I say I have been as low as one can be, you maybe won't believe what I'm about to say but I have felt as low as being dead inside, a dead soul and feeling like my body is collapsing and in constant fight or flight situation, huge, really huge sense of anxiety like if someone was pointing a gun at your head and you knew you were gonna die.

Sorry for the sad, graphically violent picture I've painted but that was exactly how I once felt.

What matters is that all is good now, and I hope, or better yet I believe I'll most probably won't go through that again.

 

I'd say for you to try Valerian Root, which seems to have helped me sleep, but I'd be cautions in your case since you're not only taking Seroquel like me. The thing is, I think  it has some bad interactions with some psych meds, I checked interactions with Seroquel and there was no problem so I started taking it.

 

Stay optimistic!

 

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Plshelp

Staz, 

 

You're lucky to be functioning well after coming off Seroquel. I hope you keep seeing improvements. 

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Staz
On 23/01/2018 at 2:27 AM, Downbutnotout said:

You actually sound optimistic. Is that true?

Yep. In a round about sort of way DBNO. It's been nearly a week now and I'm getting rough nights with the odd better night. I need to avoid triggers but I'm managing to do a voluntary job 3 days a week now. Some anxiety now and again especially around sleep. I have the odd otc anti histamine now and again and low dose melatonin which helps.

I'm still depressed but almost functional and i hope this improves the longer I'm off Seroquel.

Next drug to go will be Valium which will be a challenge.

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Staz
18 hours ago, dukke said:

No, lorazepam was the first thing to go. I was able to quit cold turkey on that, no side-effects. Be careful though, each person is different.

 

One thing that really helps me with depression and I bet with tapering off the psych meds is to do physical exercise, and a good diet. If you're not able to do much physical exercise right now, start with walking outside. I believe this is really key to fighting depression.

I can say I haven't felt depressed, anxious, etc in a long time and believe me when I say I have been as low as one can be, you maybe won't believe what I'm about to say but I have felt as low as being dead inside, a dead soul and feeling like my body is collapsing and in constant fight or flight situation, huge, really huge sense of anxiety like if someone was pointing a gun at your head and you knew you were gonna die.

Sorry for the sad, graphically violent picture I've painted but that was exactly how I once felt.

What matters is that all is good now, and I hope, or better yet I believe I'll most probably won't go through that again.

 

I'd say for you to try Valerian Root, which seems to have helped me sleep, but I'd be cautions in your case since you're not only taking Seroquel like me. The thing is, I think  it has some bad interactions with some psych meds, I checked interactions with Seroquel and there was no problem so I started taking it.

 

Stay optimistic!

Hi dukke. Well done on lorazepam.

I feel and know only too well the feelings you have so eloquently expressed. I live with a lot of them daily still.

I'm a week off of Seroquel and currently doing ok with some broken sleep etc but better than I expected. Thanks for the sound advice and good luck on your journey.

Staz

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Staz
13 hours ago, Plshelp said:

You're lucky to be functioning well after coming off Seroquel. I hope you keep seeing improvements

Thanks plshelp. I did cut down from 150mg in big steps over the last 5 months until 25mg then dropped a 1mg per day from Christmas Day until I was off. My sleep started to suffer a bit around 6mg and has not normalised as yet but I'm managing. some nights are better than others and I've had the odd 6 -7 hour nights sleep. I'm finding melatonin and otc antihistamines a help. A bit of anxiety but nothing huge so far. fingers crossed it continues.

Staz

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dukke

One thing I've started to do with success is to take 1mg of Melatonin if I wake up and feel like I'm not going to be able to sleep more but still feel tired and sleepy (side-note: strange thing one feels sleepy but still can't sleep), after that I can sleep again.

 

You said you feel anxiety before sleep, magnesium might help, it helps to relax, for instance, banana has magnesium, try to eat one before sleep. There are also magnesium supplements and even magnesium sprays, as magnesium is also absorbed through the skin and there's also epsom salt baths which you might have heard and are also ways to absorb  Magnesium..

 

Sincerely,  hope this helps! Even if just a bit..

 

 

 

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Staz
15 hours ago, dukke said:

One thing I've started to do with success is to take 1mg of Melatonin if I wake up and feel like I'm not going to be able to sleep more but still feel tired and sleepy (side-note: strange thing one feels sleepy but still can't sleep), after that I can sleep again.

 

You said you feel anxiety before sleep, magnesium might help, it helps to relax, for instance, banana has magnesium, try to eat one before sleep. There are also magnesium supplements and even magnesium sprays, as magnesium is also absorbed through the skin and there's also epsom salt baths which you might have heard and are also ways to absorb  Magnesium..

 

Sincerely,  hope this helps! Even if just a bit..

 

Thanks dukke.

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Staz

Today the rapid taper has caught up with me a bit. I feel low un unmotivated with some depression. a large part is situational I think. By myself on a horrible winters day and the hours have dragged by.

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powerback
11 minutes ago, Staz said:

Today the rapid taper has caught up with me a bit. I feel low un unmotivated with some depression. a large part is situational I think. By myself on a horrible winters day and the hours have dragged by.

Yikes Staz .having a very bonkers weekend meself ,the weather is itching to turn for the better .

As miT often says to me don't try fight the pain to much .

Be strong 

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Staz
7 minutes ago, powerback said:

Yikes Staz .having a very bonkers weekend meself ,the weather is itching to turn for the better .

As miT often says to me don't try fight the pain to much .

Thanks PB. It's taken the Seroquel reduction about 10 days to really hit me. Very tearful, unmotivated to do anything just sitting on the couch looking at 4 walls. Catatonic almost. It will pass.

I hope your day has been better PB?

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powerback
Just now, Staz said:

Thanks PB. It's taken the Seroquel reduction about 10 days to really hit me. Very tearful, unmotivated to do anything just sitting on the couch looking at 4 walls. Catatonic almost. It will pass.

I hope your day has been better PB?

very overwhelming day put it that way .when the sun comes out to ,run towards it .

Be safe.

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Staz

Depression and anxiety today. Feeling rough but that could be due to the 2 beers I had last night breaking my no alcohol pledge.

 

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Plshelp

Staz, 

OTC antihistamines work on the same receptors as the antipsychotics. So that's probably why you feel relief. It's great that the melatonin help you. It doesn't affect me at all. I have more damage to the SCN part of my brain that regulates circadian rhythm. 

 

As far as magnesium, there are different forms that are beneficial for different things. Theonate is good for neural regeneration and glycinate is good for sleep. Just google the different types of magnesium. It's also best to take the chelated form, it's absorbed much more rapidly. You should also Google supplements depleted by psych drugs - by options health living. Perhaps adding some of those to your regime might help you. 

 

Also, they say it's best to avoid alcohol and drugs during this recovery period. The brain is very sensitive. I however couldn't handle things, with all my symptoms and had to go onto an antidepressant. I hope you don't have to go that route. 

 

Just be patient and try to get thru a day at a time. Xx

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ChessieCat

Remember that if you do try anything new, start by trying a small dose of it, and only try 1 thing at a time.

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Staz

I'm now begining to believe I've tardive dysphoria or as my shrink would call it treatment resistant depression. I've no hope left any longer. Do we ever recover from this much medication?

 

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Staz

I've reached my lowest ebb. S.I. really bad now. I just want to escape from the pain but have nowhere to run.

 

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wantrelief
32 minutes ago, Staz said:

I've reached my lowest ebb. S.I. really bad now. I just want to escape from the pain but have nowhere to run.

 

I am so sorry you are feeling really bad now, Staz.  I have suffered quite a bit with SI so know how you might be feeling.  Recently I came across some videos and the website of Douglas Bloch who talks about his own struggles with overcoming depression and SI.  All of what he says doesn't resonate with me but some of it did and knowing that he too suffered with this was helpful.  I think the crux of what he is saying is how important support is so I am glad you reached out here.  Is there someone you can be with in "real life" who knows how you are feeling?  I try to tell myself that these thoughts are indicators of just how much my brain is messed up right now and are not real. I also keep trying to change the thoughts to something else.  These thoughts will pass. Please keep us updated on how you are doing.

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powerback
1 hour ago, Staz said:

I've reached my lowest ebb. S.I. really bad now. I just want to escape from the pain but have nowhere to run.

 

I really feel your pain staz ,you have my support ,I'm having an awful day myself ,the guilt I feel because its Easter Sunday and I'm like this and I couldn't even have a nice dinner with my girlfriend ,I just ate cornflakes ;).god help us my friend ,surely there's a reason for all this suffering and we will  understand when we come out the other end .I had to stop myself from talking about our future and breaking up ,my mind is driving me crazy.

Take care .

 

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bhasski

Staz .. it will get better...

Have someone with you and tell him about S.I .. writing here is good too but a person in there will help much.

 

I had too that feeling for a long time as I was terribly suffering with 100  of symptoms... but that had lessen or almost gone.. so believe its just temporary.

 

Treatment resistant depression is another bogus with these asses.

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Staz

Thanks for your support all. It's much appreciated. My depression ans SI are running out of control. I've told my wife but she doesn't really understand what I'm going through as she just sees me suffering. I'm full of guilt as I know what I want to do but don't want to hurt her or my kids.

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