DMV64: reinstate Saphris?

[InvisibleUnless]

12 hours ago, DMV64 said:

@Rosetta @wantrelief @Carmie @JanCarol @InvisibleUnless

Friends. I just got a possible PT job offer at the local food coop. Since I am wary of any changes to my schedule I am wondering what people think. It is just 10 hours a week, but is on Wed and Sun evening clean up crew 5-10 pm. Not sure yet is there is mobility on time. So...my concerns are: Bedtime is 10PM. I am kind of strict about it because it goes along with all my drug times. Also the hours are right in the middle of taking a liquid titrate with food and a few other drug times. 

Would this be good for me? To get out, have a work family? Or is it not the right opportunity?? Need help!

 

we have discussed this before, but i will reiterate a little and also add things i may or may not have covered before.  working and socializing can be a boon to recovery, but also introduces new stresses and potential scheduling conflicts.  you want to be aware of how the environment may tax you, in addition to the demands that the physical labor and social engagement may make on your recovering nervous system and mind.  10 hours a week is not a huge amount, but its not small, either.  if you can have a trial period or work shorter hours as an introductory phase, that might be a better thing to try than jumping in at 10 hours a week indefinitely.

 

if you are able to schedule things and stick to a schedule, this sounds like a decent place to start.  not everyone is able to--i cannot, and would not be able to take a hard-booked part-time position.  days and times are not so easy for me to conform to, still.  that you have a constant bedtime sounds great, and you may want to see how a 10:45PM bedtime (or whatever else) would be for you before jumping into the work situation.  making only one adjustment at a time might make the whole process easier, and also easier to gauge in terms of feasibility.

 

if you are scheduled to work 5 hours, do you not get one or more breaks?  letting them know that you have medical needs should definitely free up some time even if you dont have a break at that moment.  negotiate with them, and let them know that you are in a situation where leeway is pretty much required at some point.  if they arent understanding, i would question the suitability of this job even if it isnt an immediate problem for you (which it is already sounding to be anyhow).

 

you get the chance to try this out and to let them know if it isnt working for you.  you dont have to give a hard pass to the opportunity just because there are some complications.  i recommend communication, which includes letting them know you need a probationary period before saying this is something you can definitely sustain.  if they arent okay with that, then that makes your decision a lot easier, yeah?  if something better comes along later, you can jump on that instead, but for now if this is something which appeals to you and seems to fit into your recovery schedule, it may be a good idea.

[Carmie]

12 hours ago, DMV64 said:

@Rosetta @wantrelief @Carmie @JanCarol @InvisibleUnless

Friends. I just got a possible PT job offer at the local food coop. Since I am wary of any changes to my schedule I am wondering what people think. It is just 10 hours a week, but is on Wed and Sun evening clean up crew 5-10 pm. Not sure yet is there is mobility on time. So...my concerns are: Bedtime is 10PM. I am kind of strict about it because it goes along with all my drug times. Also the hours are right in the middle of taking a liquid titrate with food and a few other drug times.

Would this be good for me? To get out, have a work family? Or is it not the right opportunity?? Need help!

 

 

Hi DMV, 

 

You need to decide for yourself, no one can make this decision for you my fellow sufferer. I have Cfs so am too sick to work but you know your own body. 

 

It’s hard though if you need to stick to a schedule and you’re in a wave all of a sudden but at the same time ten hours isn’t a lot. 

 

That being said ten hours is an eternity when in a wave. 

 

Hope you figure this out.

 

I still socialise quite a bit but I need a lot of alone time. For me it’s a balance.

 

Hope you work out what’s best for you, sending hugs xxx

[DMV64]

 Hi everyone. I did the yoga meditation and really listen to my body and my heart and the answer came back no this is not the right opportunity for me right now. I think the hours are too much of a challenge for my system. Thanks for all your great input! 

[DMV64]

Well, I melted down to a puddle of tears yesterday. Including some screaming. Ugh. Today is better. A friend of mine has started a new med and feels great. Why do I feel jealous?

[Rosetta]

Uhg, it's hard to avoid feeling jealous of people whose brains work better!!

 

Tears are ok.  In fact, I think they are necessary.

 

I think you made the right decision about the job.  When I saw that it ended at 10 pm I thought, "Oh, not good."  You need to have a sleep schedule that gets you in bed by dark, in my opinion.  I know you might not be asleep by then, but having no possibility of getting up with the sun and going to bed by dark is not a good option for anyone.  I think that we need to be even more careful with our circadian rhythm.

 

Rosetta

[wantrelief]

2 hours ago, DMV64 said:

Well, I melted down to a puddle of tears yesterday. Including some screaming. Ugh. Today is better. A friend of mine has started a new med and feels great. Why do I feel jealous?

Oh DMV....I so understand.  It is so hard not to feel jealous of folks who are feeling well when we aren't.  Plus perhaps there is a question of what if I took x med and felt great too?  Sometimes we just have to let all of this frustration out, whether that be through crying or screaming or both!  I am glad today is better....maybe getting out your feelings helped.   

[DMV64]

20 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

 

Thanks Rosetta. I really cried my eyes out. I guess I needed it. 

And yes, I think you are right about the sleep schedule and the job! I think it would mess me up. 

[Carmie]

9 hours ago, DMV64 said:

Well, I melted down to a puddle of tears yesterday. Including some screaming. Ugh. Today is better. A friend of mine has started a new med and feels great. Why do I feel jealous?

 

I’m so sorry about your puddle of tears DMV, 

 

Glad you’re a bit better today.

 

Yes, it’s hard when people around us seem to be doing well and we seem to be in limbo. 

 

A friend of mine from another state just told me she started taking antidepressants and she hasn’t felt this great and normal in a long time. I fear for her though because she doesn’t know what she’s getting herself into, these meds are so dangerous. I told her about my withdrawals and the absolute suffering I’ve been through but she feels the antidepressants are the best thing since sliced bread. 

 

You can’t make choices for other people no matter how much you care about them. I kept telling her the dangers but she decided to take them and now I don’t bring it up anymore. It was her choice.

 

Take care my friend, thinking of you 💚💚

 

[DMV64]

3 hours ago, Carmie said:

choices

You know I think the hardest part was the choice. Innoway it is hard to make this choice every day. But I don’t want to go to the quick Fixx of a pill, it wasn’t working anyway

[Carmie]

41 minutes ago, DMV64 said:

You know I think the hardest part was the choice. Innoway it is hard to make this choice every day. But I don’t want to go to the quick Fixx of a pill, it wasn’t working anyway

 

Hi again DMV,

 

Yes, Sometimes people feel stuck and they take these meds before knowing the ramifications. Many people um and ah before they take them but then chose to do so but they may not realise how dangerous theses drugs are. I wish I knew before I was put on them. I was put on them because of chronic pain n it was a downward spiral from there as you can see from my signature. 

 

Coming off these meds is the hardest thing that’s happened to me in my life n I’ve had lots of sad things happen to me.

 

I hope you’re feeling a little better soon. I’m getting lots more windows now.

 

Take care💚

 

 

[Carmie]

P.s. I just realised you were probably talking about reinstatement. Is that the case? Is that what you meant by: It is hard to make the choice every day? 

 

Im struggling to think today and to look back over your thread. 

 

Anyway, I better go to bed. 

 

Hope tomorrow is a brighter day for you xx

 

 

[DMV64]

2 hours ago, Carmie said:

hardest

 I agree that coming off is the hardest thing that I’ve ever done and also I have been through some pretty hard times. Sometimes I can’t believe I wound up in this place. I’m looking forward to more windows, you give me hope. 

[DMV64]

@wantrelief @Carmie @JanCarol @Rosetta

Checking in to say I am still here. Been all over the place. I had an evaluation to see if IOP would benefit me, or partial hospitalization. Came out of it deciding to just joining a DBT group they run and see how I do with the extra support. Feeling like I am somedays getting close to not being able to work and this really scares me. So I will see how the next week goes and decide if I am going to do something different.

[Rosetta]

I think that's good.  I know you are suffering, and it is scary to think you may not be able to work.  It worries me that I can't work.  But more drugs do not seem to be the answer.  I would not feel comfortable with that even though I wish that could be an answer because otherwise I have no answer.  I try to avoid feeling stuck by remembering that I AM doing something - Holding at zero.  Sometimes I get angry that that is my only option.  Then, I remember Im glad I have the option -- that I know about the option.  How many don't know anything about this situation at all?  Still, it is very difficult.  I just keep hoping I will get better soon.

[DMV64]

2 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

soon.

Me too. I really hope it gets better for both of us soon.

[wantrelief]

Hey DMV - I have been seeing a therapist to learn some DBT skills.  I just started so will see how it goes.  So far we have focused on mindfulness which has helped me cope with the awful emotional symptoms withdrawal has thrown at me.  I hope you find it useful.  Extra support can never be a bad thing.   

[Carmie]

6 hours ago, DMV64 said:

@wantrelief @Carmie @JanCarol @Rosetta

Checking in to say I am still here. Been all over the place. I had an evaluation to see if IOP would benefit me, or partial hospitalization. Came out of it deciding to just joining a DBT group they run and see how I do with the extra support. Feeling like I am somedays getting close to not being able to work and this really scares me. So I will see how the next week goes and decide if I am going to do something different.

 

Hi DMV, 

 

Hope everything goes okay for you. I’d be worried about hospitalisation as they may give you more meds. Very scary! 

 

I can't work because of my illness so it must be extremely hard to have to work with withdrawals. 

 

Thinking of you. All we can do is take a day at a time. Time is the only healer.

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

 

[JanCarol]

Hey D - 

 

I've been thinking about you, as you have some decision making coming up!

 

On 5/11/2018 at 5:05 AM, DMV64 said:

I made an inquiry into my body and my mind. And my spirit. I think the answer is a little complex. This is in not exactly the right opportunity because of the hours and it interferes with my home group recovery meeting as well. But it is an opportunity to show interest and ask about possible variations or other opportunities

 

This is EXCELLENT work!!!! I'm so glad that you were able to do this, as it helps with the next big decision you will need to make:  what to taper?

 

I will not be around July 1 when you choose what to do.  Whatever you choose, please be sure to stick with it.  We'd like to see you get one drug gone before you try anything more complex.

 

Here are the options as I see it:

 

Split Geodon into more even doses (this is only a month's work, and you will look at actual tapering in August or when you have settled from that change)

Taper Geodon - I know you are not leaning this way, but it is one of the two more damaging drugs

Taper Saphris - ah, this is the bear, and probably what gives you the most difficulty.

Taper Vyvanse - this one may be hyping up your anxiety, but it also may be necessary because all of your other drugs are brakes

Taper Klonopin - you brought this up privately (along with other options), and it's not the first place I would look, but it may be contributing to your anxiety cycles.

 

Since I will not be around when you start your next step, I would like for you to choose by mid-June what you are going to do, and start planning for that (acquiring jars, syringes, whatever you need for this taper).

 

How to decide?  Well, you've already done the yoga nidra for a decision, and it really helped you clarify what you wanted and needed.  This will be a more complex exercise, taking 4-5 sessions (you may combine the Geodon sessions).

 

Yoga nidra

Put one pill of the drug on your chest.  What is this drug giving you?  What is this drug taking away from you?  What would it feel like to taper (or split) this drug?  How does this drug help you?  How does it harm you?
Again, check with your body parts as I listed above - try and include your whole body.  When it comes to drugs, you might also ask your organs, like your liver, your bowel, your brain (already listed), your nervous system, your reproductive system, your adrenals & kidneys & lungs, as well as your heart - what their response is to this drug.

 

This is not science, it is an intuitive exercise.  Go through and ask your body parts how they feel about tapering the drug.

 

Then, when you come back to your everyday mind, write down the experience.  This is a long exercise, to be done over several days, and you will need to collate, collect, and remember how each one felt.  The only way to do that accurately with intuition is to write it down.   This is an extensive journalling exercise.

 

When you have done all 4-5 sessions, then you read what you have written, and make a big chart.  Each choice, and a left and right column for pros and cons, and what your body told you about it.

 

After this exercise, I am hoping that you have some strong candidates for tapering.  Even if you can eliminate the 3 least likely that will help us choose the most likely one.  Think about the exercise not only as what you want to do, but also what is not important to do now.

 

On 5/13/2018 at 7:18 AM, DMV64 said:

Well, I melted down to a puddle of tears yesterday. Including some screaming. Ugh. Today is better. A friend of mine has started a new med and feels great. Why do I feel jealous?

 

You're having feelings!  Awful feelings, but you had them.  And you didn't do anything but feel them (and scream and cry).  One of the hardest things to learn (and this is part of what DBT teaches) is that feelings are just feelings - they flow through you and then they're done.  If you express them and feel them, then you are done with them.  If they keep recurring, then there may be things in your life to adjust - but the common coping mechanisms we learn in childhood is to do something about the feelings.

 

This urge to do something can lead to all sorts of self sabotaging, destructive, acting out behaviours.  It is the source of many addictions - to cope with the feelings of trauma by taking something, and it is the source of explosive & destructive behaviours.  Many people make major life changing decisions based on this urge to do something about a feeling, when if they just waited, the feeling would pass.

 

So you survived it, and you know you can survive it!  The drugs numb feelings, so having feelings, even awful ones, is always a good sign!

 

As for your friend, she's in the honeymoon phase of drug taking.  I wrote elsewhere that 

Quote

So - when you see someone who brightens and is so happy about their new prescription, just remind yourself, "it's the honeymoon," and that they've made an extremely bad marriage.  When I have had friends make bad marriages, I have learned to be there for them, and listen, and not offer advice or help until it is asked for.  Or let them know that there are other options - and then shut up.  It's hard, because I can watch their brain and health deteriorate (I have a lot of long term friendships!), but it can be impossible to get a friend away from a bad marriage/relationship, too.

This goes for rapid tapers and cold turkeys, too - there are many people who say they are fine, but they are not looking at the long term effects.  And many of the effects might be blamed on "chronic fatigue," "fibromyalgia" "fatty liver" or - most commonly, "relapse."

 

9 hours ago, DMV64 said:

IOP would benefit me, or partial hospitalization

 

These people are deeply invested in getting you to take your drugs, and are not very supportive of tapering.  If you need this additional support, I encourage you - but it will be difficult for you to gain acceptance for a tapering program through them.

 

9 hours ago, DMV64 said:

just joining a DBT group they run and see how I do with the extra support.

 

Actually DBT - while it teaches some awesome skills - is very demanding.  Some would say more demanding than supportive.

They usually want a commitment from you that you will attend all meetings, and participate in the exercises.  They tend to throw you out if you are not committed to total participation.

 

You can quit anytime, but if you quit you may not be able to go back.  That's how strict they often are, and it's part of the DBT thing about learning boundaries and consequences.

 

I'll be curious to see how you feel about it - it might be better to learn the skills one-on-one with a therapist.  That seems to be what wantrelief is doing.  There is also a self-help program here:  http://www.dbtselfhelp.com/ where you can maybe learn the skills without some of the culture that comes with DBT groups.  Who knows, maybe you will like that culture, enjoy the rules and find it's for you.  But if you don't, there are always other options.  And - at least in a group you have support from others.  There's nothing lonelier than doing your own therapy alone.

Right now, you have a big decision to make about where you are going to take your tapering.  If I were you, I'd focus on that, and get really still & quiet, and committed to that.

I have to go for now - I hope you see the sun today!

[DMV64]

4 hours ago, JanCarol said:

decision making

Yes I do! i will use the method here to help me figure out what is next. Thank you.

As for feelings, I have sometimes been overwhelmed. Feeling like I am about to collapse, won't be able to work, etc. It's not like I was totally numb before, I have done alot of work in program and therapy, so I guess I am a bit surprised at the strength of these feelings coming up and traumatic memories. I was triggered by a school bus yesterday, remembering traumas in HS. These drugs are very powerful. It is scary sometimes. I try to be brave.

I am looking forward to the DBT group. I hope it is for me but if not it is good to know there are other ways to access the information.

xoxo

-D

 

[DMV64]

10 hours ago, Carmie said:

Sending hugs🤗

Thank you. I need hugs...much appreciated

[DMV64]

Hi friends. I am trying some EFT techniques today. Hoping to add to my toolbox. My pattern is unfortunately not really getting much better. The morning anxiety is preety bad, even with various tools. These antipsychotics are really powerful. : (

[Rosetta]

Hugs, DMV.  Sorry I have little to say.  I'm feeling pretty odd myself.  Changes happening, but it's so uncomfortable.  I suppose it's not very helpful, but I think you are healing.  I am so tried of that, but it's better than not healing?  I hope the EFT helps!  I've been thinking of trying that, too.

More hugs!!

Rosetta

[DMV64]

Thank you Rosetta. I hope I am healing.  Sometimes it is hard to feel that.  

[Rosetta]

Yes, I know.  I hope it's getting better. - R

[DMV64]

4 hours ago, Rosetta said:

better

Some days I think yes. Some days I think I am just circling around. 

[jkun41]

59 minutes ago, DMV64 said:

Some days I think yes. Some days I think I am just circling around. 

 

Sorry to hear you're having a hard time DMV. I'll keep you in my prayers. 

[DMV64]

2 hours ago, jkun41 said:

prayers

Thank you. I really appreciate that!

[DMV64]

@JanCarol @wantrelief @Rosetta @Carmie

I am seriously feeling I need to  find a new care team. The one I am with is never available plus he was the one who put me into the rapid taper. Not sure what to do but I no longer feel supported by this office. : (

There is someone I have heard good things about a few towns over. Thinking about this as I get closer to beginning tapering again.

[wantrelief]

If you don't feel like you are being supported in the way you need, it can't hurt to check out the person you have heard about.  It isn't essential to have a supportive provider - luckily we have SA - but it sure couldn't hurt if you could find one.  Keep us posted!

[Rosetta]

Oh, isn't that frustrating?  Medical care these days isn't really "care" sometimes, is it?  I'm glad you have lead on another doctor.

[DMV64]

1 hour ago, Rosetta said:

Medical

Yes. They are hardly available. I see them once a month maybe. And phone calls are like a major bureaucratic procedure. 

[DMV64]

3 hours ago, wantrelief said:

If you don't feel like you are being supported in the way you need, it can't hurt to check out the person you have heard about.  It isn't essential to have a supportive provider - luckily we have SA - but it sure couldn't hurt if you could find one.  Keep us posted!

I will definitely keep you posted! 

[Carmie]

6 hours ago, wantrelief said:

If you don't feel like you are being supported in the way you need, it can't hurt to check out the person you have heard about.  It isn't essential to have a supportive provider - luckily we have SA - but it sure couldn't hurt if you could find one.  Keep us posted!

 

Hi DMV, 

I agree with wantrelief. Doctors don’t know how to help us taper but getting a friendlier one that will help you do what you need to will help. Just be careful he doesn’t suggest tapering quicker than you are able to. All we really need is a doctor that will give us the scripts we need to do our taper and then do our taper as slowly as possible.💚

 

 

 

 

[DMV64]

6 hours ago, Carmie said:

scripts

Because this is such a large group that works out of the University I can be difficult to get the scripts when I can only see them when they can fit me in to their clinic schedule which in this case has been two months. 

[JanCarol]

Hey D - 

 

17 hours ago, DMV64 said:

I am seriously feeling I need to  find a new care team.

 

This may be wise - the taper he gave you was really painful.   If the docs you heard about are any of these below - I'd say go for it!  You are lucky to be in a major metropolitan area, you actually have choices!

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/14971-recommended-doctors-therapists-and-clinics/?do=findComment&comment=13962 

 

Alto says:
 

Quote

Our esteemed member cinephile has had good experiences with these psychiatrists, both near Boston, Massachusetts:

 

Mark D. Green, M.D.

c/o Westbridge Inc.

275 Mystic Ave, Suite C

Medford, MA 02155

 

Phone: 617-913-2971

Email: markdgreenmd at mac.com

 

Bill (Wm D) Slaughter MD, MA

49 Hancock Street, Cambridge, MA 02139

Phone: 617.233.8957

 

Website: http://www.wds-md.net/

 

and

http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/14971-recommended-doctors-therapists-and-clinics/?do=findComment&comment=47934

 
where Alto says:
 

Quote

Dr. Tsafrir has an interesting blog at http://www.judytsafrirmd.com/

 

Judy Tsafrir, M.D.

Boston Holistic Psychiatrist

http://www.judytsafrirmd.com/

120 Sumner Street

Newton Centre, MA

02459

Tel: 617-965-3020

 

The Freedom Center - http://www.freedom-center.org/ is in Northhampton, just west of Boston, but while they may be too far for regular contact, they may have knowledge of treatment teams in your area.  I thought you liked your therapist, though?

 

On 5/19/2018 at 1:38 AM, DMV64 said:

I am trying some EFT techniques today. Hoping to add to my toolbox.

 

There was a really great EFT session with Dede Moore on "Let's Talk Withdrawal" but I'm having trouble finding a direct link to it.  I've contacted James Moore, hoping he'll get me a link to it sometime today.

Keep striving - you're doing some amazing work!

I hope you see the sun today!

 

[JanCarol]

Wow, he is fast an diligent:

 

Dede Moore Sample EFT for "Let's Talk Withdrawal"