DMV64: reinstate Saphris?

[DMV64]

Mine is neuro. I hope it does not come today. 

[DMV64]

Guess what?! I am having a window!! Almost all day! I almost do t want to go to sleep. 

[wantrelief]

Oh that is wonderful news, DMV!

[DMV64]

I have two pieces of good news. First I found a friend who is very good at math  help me figure out that I can drop the Saphris at 10% increments until I get to 0.9 and then I’m going to need the compounding pharmacy, which I just found in another town, that says they can make me a sub lingual lozenge! I just need my doctor to write thePrescription

[DMV64]

Currently at one point for making the next cut to 1.3 at the end of the month

[Rosetta]

Glad to hear all the good news, DMV!

[TheWayBack]

On 7/22/2018 at 4:43 PM, DMV64 said:

Thanks for stopping by. You know I find it really hard to tell because everything is up-and-down a lot. But I think overall I am feeling better. I do try to log my days and symptoms but the brain fog makes it difficult.

 

You are very brave, hope you will continue to improve!

[DMV64]

How can one tell the difference between a side effect and a WD symptom? I really feel like a lot of what I get from Saphris is side effect...

[DMV64]

@JanCarol @brassmonkey  What is the difference between an adverse reaction and a with drawl symptoms? Do I do anything different? I am asking because I really feel that I have an adverse reaction to Saphris.  I don’t know if it changes my taper at all   But it really feels like my body just does not like this drug. A lot of my symptoms just persist. 

[Carmie]

On 7/24/2018 at 12:45 AM, DMV64 said:

I have two pieces of good news. First I found a friend who is very good at math  help me figure out that I can drop the Saphris at 10% increments until I get to 0.9 and then I’m going to need the compounding pharmacy, which I just found in another town, that says they can make me a sub lingual lozenge! I just need my doctor to write thePrescription

 

Glad to hear there is some good news DMV,

 

I’ve figured out all my own math so far. It takes me forever as I hate math. I love reading though😃. I’m glad you also found a compounding pharmacy. I wish you all the best in your tapering. 

On 7/24/2018 at 12:45 AM, DMV64 said:

Currently at one point for making the next cut to 1.3 at the end of the month

 

Im glad you’re moving forward with your tapering. I’m going to taper at the end of August again as I’ve got a holiday by the 

beach with friends in August. I love being near water, sitting on the sand n listening to the crashing waves is so soothing. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

[DMV64]

 I love being by the water as well. It is so calming  

It turns out the compounding pharmacy might not be able to do my dosages. I am supposed to talk to them today to see. Maybe it’s better I just keep doing it myself.

Woke up this morning with the big cortisol Spike. Not fun.

[JanCarol]

Hey D!

 

On 7/19/2018 at 8:42 PM, DMV64 said:

I’m trying to make efforts to make more friends but it’s hard in with drawl. 

 

Oh heck, that's hard for adults at anytime!

 

We get caught in our circles, patterns and ruts - and it's hard to break out of.  Not just for you - but also for the people you want to get to know.

I met a woman in yoga class.  "Let's go out for coffee!" I pursued her.  "No, got the grandkids this week," "No, going down the coast this weekend," "No, husband needs me home then."  I met a woman in tai chi class - a former schoolteacher.  I was fascinated by her. I pursued her.  "No, Mum is sick and I have to spend all my free time with her," (even though her Mum is her abuser)  So - even when you are proactive, attracting people and getting them to break out of their patterns to do something new - is deeply challenging.

 

Now, so many people are tied to their devices.  I had lunch with a friend yesterday, and her device was on the table the whole time, interrupting our conversation.  This is considered "normal," now.  And this is a good friend, not an acquaintance!  So - getting people to break out of the "text me and 'we'll do lunch sometime'" patterns is hard as well.  You almost begin to believe that because you are not inside the device, you are insignificant to them.  If we could have coffee while I was inside their phone, folks would probably love that.  But because I'm a real, flesh and blood person with eyes and hands and ears and voice - that's more challenging, and a harder thing to break their circles to do.

 

The next thing that is challenging (this is turning into an article!) is being real.  So many people want to "be ritual," 

"Hi, how are you?"
"Fine how are you?"
"Isn't the weather just great?"  - things I would say to a stranger, but not things I want when I'm craving friendship, intimacy and interaction!

 

So it is hard work, as an adult, to expand your circles and make intimate friends.  My tips for people moving to a new community are:  join something (like 12 step, church, or community organizations), and when you join, talk to people.  Pick the brightest eyes in the room and talk to that person.  Offer them something - "I teach yoga, you want to try a free class?  I'd really appreciate your support" or "I was going to bake some muffins tomorrow, can I bring some by?"

 

Hubby and I took a fresh-baked loaf of bread to the new neighbours and found that - the dog is old (and very responsive), and the music - well he said, "If my music gets on your nerves, just let me know."  Ahhhh.  We're not friends, but at least we're not enemies!  And we know each other's names now.

 

On 7/19/2018 at 8:42 PM, DMV64 said:

I don’t feel like I have a lot of interests or friends.

 

Okay, that's - um.  A judgy voice talking inside of you.  Two things - first - cognitively challenge these kinds of statements.

 

If you didn't have interests,, you wouldn't be teaching yoga or doing doula work.  You would never go to 12 step meetings (I know, I know you have to go to those to survive, right?  But here's the thing - you don't really have to go - but you still go!  That's an interest!), you went to Buddhist centre, you even talked to the Lama.  You are really brave when it comes to trying new things.  Why are you trying them if you aren't interested in them?

 

And if the cognitive challenge is still not shifting your viewpoint - look at the mood.

 

Ah, you said you feel this way.  It's a feeling.  It will pass.  Feelings can contain awesome spiritual guidance, if we heed them - so maybe your feelings are telling you to pursue interests and friends.  Or - maybe your feelings are just waves of emotion from healing from the drugs - you can honour that, too.  Ah, maybe when you feel like this, you need to focus on Self Care.  Take a nice, comforting bath, get a massage, go for a walk, look at trees and stars, breathe in with deep self-love, breathe out anything that doesn't support that self-love.

 

That's a few little things to look at when you have these thoughts/feelings!  You are not alone!  I came out of this from the deepest anhedonia.  I really didn't have interests, I had a few friends, but nothing felt real, I was wrapped in lithium wool.  So each tentative step was terrifying.  Yoga was awful - because the studios here don't know how to modify for different abilities.  (their idea of a modification is to reach for the shins instead of the toes, for example, in a forward bend.  But what if your forward bend is at the thighs?), karate was consistent - I could fall into a "do it like I've always done it" karate trance - but that didn't mean that I was interested in it, and cognitively, learning new things was extra awful, as lithium had damaged the connection between my brain and body.  Church?  LOL.  Any social setting?  LOL.  Party invitations?  LOL.  All were too challenging, too out of reach.  I had to extend social tendrils, interest tendrils, very delicately, very carefully, to ensure I had a web of support for reaching out to.  

So you're not alone in this feeling, and you are challenging it with you actions and choices.  There will come a time when, like me, you are saying, "too many interests, which one can I let go of?" and "too many people, who do I really wish to cultivate?"  It will come, if you keep reaching out.

 

On 7/19/2018 at 11:44 PM, DMV64 said:

 I have been working a little bit with a Shaman here.

 

Oh wow, now you're talking my language...

 

On 7/19/2018 at 11:44 PM, DMV64 said:

Alot of stuff coming up. Old business, preverbal attachment stuff with my mother who made it impossible to really attach to her. Abandonment and fear. Feeling like I never really "had" myself, because essentially I had very little mirroring or validation and a lot of belittling.

 

Okay, so Shaman dredged up trauma - did Shaman offer remedy?  If not, then you might want a different Shaman.

 

When this stuff comes up, there is always something - an exercise, a ritual, a Practice - to help a person feel more integrated after a session.  I didn't gain the information, so I don't know what this Shaman experienced to bring this up - therefore I don't know the essential pieces to offer you.

 

Examples of remedies might include: 

• Facing the rising sun and taking 3 long, slow deep breaths.  Acknowledge "I am what I am meant to be."
• Putting up a tribute to your mother and offering tea and rice and thanking her for what she did give you.  (even in the face of complete abandonment & belittling, she gave you something.  She gave you life, she gave you DNA, she gave you a sense of "I'll do my best," she gave you - something)
• Practices which increase the sense of connection to All Life - whether that is hugging trees, growing a houseplant, herb, or tomato bush, or tapping your heart before you Namaste - or - looking to feel deeply the Namastes you do perform.  My current practice is getting mixed results - to meet the eyes of all the people I see, and smile broadly and deeply from the heart - a type of "socially acceptable" Namaste.  Most people look away, some even scowl at me - but it's my Practice, and I'm stickin' to it!

So my concern is that this Shaman kind of picked up where your Mother left off, and dug up a bunch of trauma without offering Remedy.  Are you due for another session of Integration after being ripped open like this?  This can happen in Therapy, too - where they go in and dig up a bunch of stuff - and then - just leave you with it.  Do you have any contact information you can PM me about the Shaman?

 

On 7/19/2018 at 11:44 PM, DMV64 said:

Realizing I don't really know WHAT I want. Who am I? Finding it hard to hook into my interests, do I have any? Also finding it hard to be in this place after so much therapeutic work of various sorts. But I suppose grateful if it is leading me to myself. 

 

So - to find out what you want, stop doing everything.  Everything.  Do nothing - absolutely nothing.  Do not speak, do not eat, do not write, do not teach, do nothing - for 3, 5, 7 days if you can.

 

At the end of the 3, 5, 7 days, you will feel the urge to do things.  To eat.  to speak, to do things.  You will feel strongly what is important.

 

Of course, this Shamanic Remedy is too extreme for someone in withdrawal or under your drug load to do.

 

So pick your battles.  Maybe you will fast from screens, like i inadvertently did in my travels - no TV, no computer, no tablet, no internet on your phone.  Maybe you will fast from words, and not speak for 3 days (it's hard to keep your life while doing this - but it can be oh so rewarding).  Maybe you will fast from food using an eating window of 4-6 hours a day, and fast the rest of the time (this is also a challenge at first, but can also be rewarding - warning though - blood sugar issues may become clear duruing such a fast).  Maybe you will fast from work, or even social contact for a time.  Be alone, feel your feelings and be alone with them.  This is also very instructive.

 

The first step is to stop asking the question, "What do I want?"  By putting pressure on yourself to Want Something, you may be sabotaging yourself into impulsiveness.  If your native state is to Want Nothing, then - see what that's about?

 

These are, as always, suggestions - I'm not telling you to do any of these things!  I'm only discussing them as a possibility for you to explore - in your own way.  

 

On 7/20/2018 at 3:53 AM, DMV64 said:

Trying to feel brave planning a little day trip to Brooklyn and also a three day trip to the beach with my husband in August.

 

That's the spirit!

 

Okay, I'm off to the mountains for the afternoon - I'll catch up again soon!

 

[DMV64]

Hey JC! Thanks For coming by and giving me all these great suggestion. It’s going to take me a while to think about them all. I don’t know if the shaman intentionally brought stuff up, it kind of just happened after I sat with him for a while and just talked about what was going on with me. I didn’t even talk about this stuff which is the funny thing. 

I’m just waking up now with a bit of a cortisol spike so I will write more later

[Rosetta]

Inspiring words from JanCarol just when I needed them.

[Rabe]

Happy to hear about the window and steps forward.  I find myself reacting to more things when tapering...hope it gets better for you!!!

[DMV64]

 I want to Brooklyn yesterday for my 17 year sober anniversary. It was very bittersweet. I realize I am really pretty homesick. I miss my old friends and my old Meetings and of course my son. So I woke up this morning feeling really sad and like I just wanted to move away from here in Philadelphia and back home to Brooklyn. On another note I’m having a cortisol spike every single morning with hot and cold flashes and I’m really wondering if it’s hormonal rather than with drawl

[DMV64]

Just recently all these newish symptoms. Restless legs. Irritable. Waking up at 5AM bolt upright. 

Come on! I need to go read success stories

[Rosetta]

Ugh!  I'm sorry you are having that, DMV.  Are you able to fall back asleep?  

 

Seventeen years of sobriety!!!  Wow.  That's quite an accomplishment especially given the AD and benzo WD issues.  I'm glad you found out how to taper those.  If you had no idea about WD and the effects of these drugs I'm sure you would be making all kinds of mistakes that might make sobriety a lot more difficult to maintain.  The perimenopause symptoms are really awful and the way the hormones affect WD is pretty awful, too.  I'm thinking of trying to address some of that with nutrition.  I'm really tired of it.

[DMV64]

Thanks!! Yeah the hormones are really hard. I am tired of it too. I never know what is effecting what. 

Its hard. But I am happy to be sober. 

[DMV64]

Making a cut tonight. to 1.3

[Rabe]

Wishing you well with this cut, DMV...take care!

[wantrelief]

I too am wishing you well with the cut, DMV!  

[Rosetta]

Good luck!

[DMV64]

This weekend is daughters move out date. I feel sad, I feel nervous about all the different feelings that are going to come up. She is the last one. And we are really close.

[manymoretodays]

Hi DMV,

We've got this thread on distinguishing withdrawal from relapse:  Withdrawal or relapse?Or something else?

I couldn't find a thread specifically about distinguishing side effects or adverse effects from withdrawal.

 

I think you have to look at a list of possible side effects from your Saphris,  and then look at common withdrawal symptoms..........to reach your best conclusion.

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

 

Here's what brassmonkey had to say about adverse effects:

Hi Waiting--  adverse reactions end up being seen as part of the ebb and flow of a taper and don't get  success story as such.  People work their way through the adverse reaction and then continue on.  So any success story would be buried in their intro threads.

 

Yes, my statement would be an all inclusive one.  An adverse reaction has many similarities with a bad wave and as such it must be worked through and when the time is right a persons taper can be continued.  Although very uncomfortable and such an adverse reaction boils down to just another bump in the road to recovery. Have you tried doing a search on Adverse Reaction?  It would take a bit of digging but you may find some success stories that way. 

 

Brassmonkey

From his essay:  Are we there yet?  How long.....

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2018 by manymoretodays

[manymoretodays]

On 7/24/2018 at 2:06 PM, DMV64 said:

How can one tell the difference between a side effect and a WD symptom? I really feel like a lot of what I get from Saphris is side effect...

Saphris side effects from drugs.com https://www.drugs.com/sfx/saphris-side-effects.html

........and you are familiar with W/D symptoms......

 

Hi DMV,

I moved this one ^ over from brassmonkeys topic and will move my response below.

LOL.  My response is above.

Nighty nite for this bonzo the monkey......

Edited August 1, 2018 by manymoretodays
added Saphris side effects link

[DMV64]

@manymoretodays @Waterfall @Carmie @Rosetta @wantrelief @Rabe Y'all!  am having a window! I had a terrible morning and then it lifted and a big window came. And I taught my yoga class and felt great after and even now. I don't want to go to bed because you know mornings are hard. But I am grateful for now.

 

[Rosetta]

Yea!!!!

[wantrelief]

Wonderful news, DMV!!  

[Rabe]

SOOOO happy for your window DMV!!!  And wonderful to hear your joy!!! 💜

[Waterfall]

So glad to hear this, DMV! 

Hooray for windows!!

[DMV64]

Today feel sad that daughter is moving out tonorrow. 

[Rabe]

Im sorry DMV...that would be hard.  Thinking about you!💜

[DMV64]

Thank you everyone, Going to bed and hope for the best tomorrow.

[Rosetta]

Sleep well, DMV

[DMV64]

 Really struggling today with the move. I feel like it’s more than I can handle being in withdrawal. We are in the middle of it now and I’m just posting quickly.