DMV64: reinstate Saphris?

[baroquep]

On 2017-09-19 at 5:58 PM, ChessieCat said:

Focus on looking after yourself and allowing your brain to heal.

Non-drug techniques

 

Hi DMV64, thought I'd repost this reminder, you might find ways of dealing with the empty space and find a technique that you find helpful.  Some members find that taking up a new hobby like doing puzzles or knitting helps keep their minds off anxiety and depression.    

[DMV64]

24 minutes ago, baroquep said:

 

Hi DMV64, thought I'd repost this reminder, you might find ways of dealing with the empty space and find a technique that you find helpful.  Some members find that taking up a new hobby like doing puzzles or knitting helps keep their minds off anxiety and depression.    

Yes. Thank you. I signed up for a dance class today. 

[baroquep]

excellent, sounds like a great idea.  hope you enjoy the class

[DMV64]

 I have a question. I am wondering if Cogentin and Benadryl or equally as bad. I’m asking because I was just taking Benadryl to Make sure I did not have the reaction to the Saphris.  But then the doctor put me on Cogentin and now  I take half a 1 mg tablet.  From what I read on here Benadryl is not any better, but I’m wondering if the Cogentin is causing me to gain some weight. Would be very interested in any more information that anyone has. 

[DMV64]

2 minutes ago, baroquep said:

excellent, sounds like a great idea.  hope you enjoy the class

 

3 minutes ago, baroquep said:

excellent, sounds like a great idea.  hope you enjoy the class

I bet I will!! Thanks. 

[DMV64]

Just now, DMV64 said:

 I have a question. I am wondering if Cogentin and Benadryl or equally as bad. I’m asking because I was just taking Benadryl to Make sure I did not have the reaction to the Saphris.  But then the doctor put me on Cogentin and now  I take half a 1 mg tablet.  From what I read on here Benadryl is not any better, but I’m wondering if the Cogentin is causing me to gain some weight. Would be very interested in any more information that anyone has. 

 I’m hoping this is short term because I want to taper off the Saphris as soon as it is the right time for me. 

[ChessieCat]

12 hours ago, DMV64 said:

Today is hard. Coming off the rush of two births in a row and having empty space lets the depression and anxiety bubble up. Why I cannot tolerate empty space is baffling and saddens me. I just want to be at peace. 

 

I was talking with a stranger when I was having lunch once and mentioned to her that I had really enjoyed the day out but always found that depression would set in on my way home.  She suggested that I have a plan of something to do when I got home.  This particular time I decided that I was going to watch a DVD and during the trip home, when I felt a bit down I would think I've got something pleasant to do.  It really helped.  The funny thing was that I didn't end up watching a DVD.  I can't even remember what I ended up doing, possibly nothing special, but just having something planned made a very big difference and I have continued to follow her suggestion several years after meeting her.

[DMV64]

10/10with current supplements added

6:30AM: Wake with moderate panic. 

6:30AM: 5mg Vyvanse.   2 teaspoons ground flax seeds, 1 scoop Progreens, Probiotic, 20mg gentle iron, 2 soft gel fish oil

7:00  breakfast Anxiety

7:00: 1mg Klonopin

9: yoga meeting

10:45 brunch

11:00AM: 100mg gabapentin

12:00 :teachers class Anxiety

1:30PM: 10 Mg Geoden

2-5PM:  Anxiety. Free time. 1000mg magnesium 2 cap of 500 is citrate

4:00PM: 100mg gabapentin. Do some graphic design helps anxiety.

5PM: Anxiety begins to lift.

6:30PM dinner

7PM: 600mg calcium. 

8:30PM: 500 magnesium

9:00PM:  2 teaspoons ground flax seeds

10:00PM 2.5mg Saphris with .5 Cogentin at 10 before bed along . And 20 mg omeprazole. 100mg gabapentin. Considering switching Cogentin to Benedryl but waiting for feedback.

[DMV64]

Hi all,

I seem to be having more anxiety. I don't know why. I have changed my magnesium oxide for citrate. Could that be it? Just normal waves? Ideas welcome.

[DMV64]

On 10/10/2017 at 2:43 AM, ChessieCat said:

 

I was talking with a stranger when I was having lunch once and mentioned to her that I had really enjoyed the day out but always found that depression would set in on my way home.  She suggested that I have a plan of something to do when I got home.  This particular time I decided that I was going to watch a DVD and during the trip home, when I felt a bit down I would think I've got something pleasant to do.  It really helped.  The funny thing was that I didn't end up watching a DVD.  I can't even remember what I ended up doing, possibly nothing special, but just having something planned made a very big difference and I have continued to follow her suggestion several years after meeting her.

I am just seeing this, but yesterday when I had some design work to do, it really helped! 

[DMV64]

10/10with current supplements added

7:15AM: Wake with moderate panic. 

7:30AM: 5mg Vyvanse.   2 teaspoons ground flax seeds, 1 scoop Progreens, Probiotic, 20mg gentle iron, 2 soft gel fish oil

7:30  run 

7:00: 1mg Klonopin

9: mediatate

10 teach

11:00AM: 100mg gabapentin

12:00 :teach class Anxiety

1:30PM: 10 Mg Geoden

2-5PM:  Confusion. dp/dr crying 

4:00PM: 100mg gabapentin. Do some graphic design helps anxiety.

5:30PM: 1000mg magnesium 1 cap of 500 is citrate

6:45PM dinner

7PM: 600mg calcium. 

8:30PM: 500 magnesium

9:00PM:  2 teaspoons ground flax seeds

10:00PM 2.5mg Saphris with .5 Cogentin at 10 before bed along . And 20 mg omeprazole. 100mg gabapentin. Considering switching Cogentin to Benedryl but waiting for feedback.

[DMV64]

Just now, DMV64 said:

That was supposed to be 10/11!

 

[DMV64]

I feel so much better at night. SO MUCH BETTER.

[AliG]

COMMON SIDE EFFECTS : Cogentin

• Abdominal or stomach cramps or pain
• aggressive and violent behavior
• being forgetful
• bloating
• burning while urinating
• confusion about identity, place, and time
• constipation
• decrease in frequency of urination
• decrease in urine volume
• diarrhea
• difficult or painful urination
• difficulty in passing urine (dribbling)
• difficulty with speaking
• difficulty with swallowing
• discouragement
• dizziness
• dry mouth
• extremely high fever or body temperature
• fast, pounding, or irregular heartbeat or pulse
• fast, shallow breathing
• fast, weak heartbeat
• feeling sad or empty
• fever
• headache
• hot, dry skin
• irritability
• lack of appetite
• lack of sweating
• listlessness
• loss of interest or pleasure
• mood or mental changes
• muscle cramps
• muscle weakness
• nervousness
• numbness of the fingers
• pale, clammy skin
• seeing things that are not there
• thirst
• tiredness
• trouble concentrating
• trouble with sleeping
• vomiting

How long have you been on the Cogentin?

Edited October 12, 2017 by AliG

[DMV64]

7 hours ago, AliG said:

COMMON SIDE EFFECTS : Cogentin

• Abdominal or stomach cramps or pain
• aggressive and violent behavior
• being forgetful
• bloating
• burning while urinating
• confusion about identity, place, and time
• constipation
• decrease in frequency of urination
• decrease in urine volume
• diarrhea
• difficult or painful urination
• difficulty in passing urine (dribbling)
• difficulty with speaking
• difficulty with swallowing
• discouragement
• dizziness
• dry mouth
• extremely high fever or body temperature
• fast, pounding, or irregular heartbeat or pulse
• fast, shallow breathing
• fast, weak heartbeat
• feeling sad or empty
• fever
• headache
• hot, dry skin
• irritability
• lack of appetite
• lack of sweating
• listlessness
• loss of interest or pleasure
• mood or mental changes
• muscle cramps
• muscle weakness
• nervousness
• numbness of the fingers
• pale, clammy skin
• seeing things that are not there
• thirst
• tiredness
• trouble concentrating
• trouble with sleeping
• vomiting

How long have you been on the Cogentin?

Hi!  Thank you for doing this. I have been on it about a month I guess. Before that I was taking a Benadryl with the Saphris. 

[DMV64]

On 10/9/2017 at 2:51 AM, JanCarol said:

Wow, so your midwifery/doula - that's intense stuff!

 

and where is the anxiety?  

Can it be that dropping the Ultrainflammex has helped your anxiety?

 

I hope you see the sun today!

 

 

Hello. I am feeling scared today. Like I will never heal. Like I have permanently damaged my brain. And I have not really even started the taper, I am just trying to stablize and that is hard enough. Every day feels like something to get through. Yes, there are good moments. I try to use my tools and float and do my practices. Anyway, I just wanted to reach out. I want to be off of these things. I know slow and steady is the way to go. But today it feels like I am stuck this way.

[DMV64]

10/12with current supplements added

6:15AM: Wake with mild panic. 

6:30AM: 5mg Vyvanse.   2 teaspoons ground flax seeds, 1 scoop Progreens, Probiotic, 20mg gentle iron, 2 soft gel fish oil

7:00  meditate 

7:00: 1mg Klonopin

9:30: teach

11:00AM: 100mg gabapentin

12: Lunch

1:00PM: Meeting 10 Mg Geoden

2-5PM: work at home 

4:00PM: 100mg gabapentin. 

5:30PM: 1000mg magnesium 1 cap of 500 is citrate

6:30PM teach

9PM: 600mg calcium. 500 magnesium

9:00PM:  2 teaspoons ground flax seeds

10:00PM will take 2.5mg Saphris with .5 Cogentin at 10 before bed along . And 20 mg omeprazole. 100mg gabapentin. Considering switching Cogentin to Benedryl but waiting for feedback.

[JanCarol]

Hey DMV - 

 

It's wayyyyyyyyyy wayyyyyyy wayyyyyy too early to be talking about "damage."  Healing is still happening 2-7 years out!  You're still in your first year of huge changes.

 

Do not substitute the benadryl for the Cogentin.  They do not do the same thing.  You will need to taper the Cogentin after the Saprhis and Geodon.  The cogentin is given to you to help you deal with the awfulness of these 2 drugs.  To go off the Cogentin will just increase their awfulness, and might result in harsh effects, or cause you to go into an extreme state.

 

You are balancing right now - albeit on the edge of a razor - but you are balancing.  It is my hope that a little afternoon anxiety or fear is something you can handle on your own.  Your ability to handle extreme emotions and fear are a measure of how well this will go for you.

 

I was just talking to a friend about Hare Krisna.  Not that I'm suggesting that anyone go join them - but - they have methods for dealing with emotions and thoughts.  They dance and chant.  In their case, they want to eliminate all emotion and thought.  In your case, you just want to take the edge off.

 

Put on your favourite music and sing and dance to it, until the fear is gone.  Laugh in the face of fear, make fun of it - oh you silly monster!

 

Here is a Zen Story I shared with my sister (told to me by Jonathan Faust in his "Body Centered Inquiry" program):

 

Quote

There is a zen story about a woman monk who was making tea, when 3 demons of her worse fears and desires came to her. They wailed and moaned and made all sorts of awful noises.

 

But she continued making tea.

 

The demons railed and screamed, rattling her worst fears and terrors, increasing the volume and the intensity of their attack.

 

She boiled the water, and poured it in the teapot.

 

The demons screamed and danced their evil dances, invoking horror, shame and terror upon her.

 

She steeped the tea.

 

Finally, they gave up and asked her: "we have brought you your worst fears, your demons of pain and shame - and yet you ignore us, why?"

 

She said, "You have been here before, you will be here again. We may as well have some tea." and poured the tea.

 

2018 is going to be your year of "coming off." 

 

Until then, you can study - do you want to reduce the Geodon first?  Or the Saphris first?  (Alto recommended Geodon, but you came here to taper Saphris)

 

Do you have the scale?  You can practice making up doses to see if you can get a 10% reduction.   With the Saphris, this is harder, because the cut doses will decay quickly.

 

If you want to - you can probably do a test taper in November - do you feel ready for that?

 

I think the Geodon taper will be easier (technically, easier to make up doses) - do you want to do the easier one first?  Or - after you've tackled the Saphris, anything else will be technically easy by comparison.  Of course, I have no idea what each of these drugs is doing to your nervous system, how they are entangled with you, or even which one has more side effects for you.

 

Let us know your thoughts!

 

And - I hope you see the Sun today!

 

Edited October 13, 2017 by JanCarol

[DMV64]

8 hours ago, JanCarol said:

Hey DMV - 

 

It's wayyyyyyyyyy wayyyyyyy wayyyyyy too early to be talking about "damage."  Healing is still happening 2-7 years out!  You're still in your first year of huge changes. ok...I just feel like I am stagnating or something. Patience.

 

Do not substitute the benadryl for the Cogentin.  They do not do the same thing.  You will need to taper the Cogentin after the Saprhis and Geodon.  The cogentin is given to you to help you deal with the awfulness of these 2 drugs.  To go off the Cogentin will just increase their awfulness, and might result in harsh effects, or cause you to go into an extreme state. I will stick with  Cogentin.  Thanks...

 

You are balancing right now - albeit on the edge of a razor - but you are balancing.  It is my hope that a little afternoon anxiety or fear is something you can handle on your own.  Your ability to handle extreme emotions and fear are a measure of how well this will go for you. I am a little afraid of my ability to handle really. Although I think I am getting better, especially at staying in the moment, a moment at a time. But feeling the extremes still stinks. 

 

I was just talking to a friend about Hare Krisna.  Not that I'm suggesting that anyone go join them - but - they have methods for dealing with emotions and thoughts.  They dance and chant.  In their case, they want to eliminate all emotion and thought.  In your case, you just want to take the edge off. I just signed up for a dance class-first one is this morning!!

 

Put on your favourite music and sing and dance to it, until the fear is gone.  Laugh in the face of fear, make fun of it - oh you silly monster!  : )

 

Here is a Zen Story I shared with my sister (told to me by Jonathan Faust in his "Body Centered Inquiry" program):

 

 

2018 is going to be your year of "coming off." 

 

Until then, you can study - do you want to reduce the Geodon first?  Or the Saphris first?  (Alto recommended Geodon, but you came here to taper Saphris) I really do not know about which to do first. The Geoden is easier since it is a capsule, so maybe try that first?

 

Do you have the scale?  You can practice making up doses to see if you can get a 10% reduction.   With the Saphris, this is harder, because the cut doses will decay quickly. I don't have the scale yet. I have one picked out that was recommended. Do I need other instruments or containers? I could order now...

 

If you want to - you can probably do a test taper in November - do you feel ready for that? Yes, I would like to try. What is a test? A small amount of time?

 

I think the Geodon taper will be easier (technically, easier to make up doses) - do you want to do the easier one first?  Or - after you've tackled the Saphris, anything else will be technically easy by comparison.  Of course, I have no idea what each of these drugs is doing to your nervous system, how they are entangled with you, or even which one has more side effects for you. I have been on Geoden longer, but have felt more effects from Saphris. Geoden feels "heavier" to me, I did not really feel a "lift" from it, where with Saphris I definitely did. 

 

Let us know your thoughts!

 

And - I hope you see the Sun today! I went for a run!

 

 

[DMV64]

10/13with current supplements added

6:15AM: Wake with no panic. 

6:30AM: 5mg Vyvanse.   2 teaspoons ground flax seeds, 1 scoop Progreens, Probiotic, 20mg gentle iron, 2 soft gel fish oil

7:00  run 

7:00: 1mg Klonopin

9:30: dance class!

11:00AM: 100mg gabapentin

12: yoga class

1:30PM: Lunch 10 Mg Geoden

3Pm Therapy. Geoden hits me hard. Fuzzy, hard to concentrate, dizzy, tired.

4PM: meeting 

4:00PM: 100mg gabapentin. 

5:30PM: Begin to feel better. 1000mg magnesium 1 cap of 500 is citrate. 600mg calcium.

6:30PM dinner

9PM:  will take 500 magnesium

9:00PM:  2 teaspoons ground flax seeds

10:00PM will take 2.5mg Saphris with .5 Cogentin at 10 before bed along . And 20 mg omeprazole. 100mg gabapentin. 

[JanCarol]

Hey D -

 

Dance classes!  Great Minds Think Alike!  

 

So it sounds like you would like to try a test taper of the Geodon.

 

A "test taper" is a  single drop in dose just to see how it's going to go for you.  It's not a set length of time - at least a month on the new dose.  Likely plan to hold over Christmas. 

 

It teaches you the techniques you will need to get a steady stable dose, and get used to making it up.  It also tells you how sensitive you will be to decreases. 

 

People who are really afraid of changes might test with 5%, most people test with 10%.  There is a doctor who tests with an initial 25% drop, but she is a doctor, and has the capability to deal with emergencies as they come up.  We're a website, and cannot support you if your life falls through the floor - so we generally recommend a 10% drop.

 

With Geodon, you are probably going to want to do a liquid taper:

How to Make a Liquid from Tablets or Capsule

Using an Oral Syringe and other Tapering Techniques

 

You will want small amber bottles (maybe 2-4) so that you can make up 3 days of liquid at a time.  The liquid does decay, so you won't want to make up more than 4 days in advance.  

Amazon - small amber bottles - 2, Amazon - small amber bottles - 4  (you can buy these locally, I'm just showing you on Amazon so you can see what they look like)

 

You will want a graduated cylinder for accurate measurement  Amazon - 100 ml Graduated cylinder - 1 ml gradations 

 

and you will want a syringe or pipette for accurate measurement. (often free at your local pharmacy - Amazon 10 pack, 10 ml syringes )

 

You may find variations in accuracy between the cylinder and the syringe.  That's okay, as long as you measure the same way each time.  Consistency is more important than accuracy.  Same dose, same time, every day.

 

If you make a 10% drop in November, and it goes well, then you have a clear direction to follow.  You can decide if you want another drop in December or not, based on your symptoms.

 

It takes at least 3 weeks for symptoms to "catch up" to a taper, which is why we recommend month long holds in between.  

 

So  - you are on 40 mg of geodon, a test taper would be 4 mg.

 

Dissolve a whole tablet in 100 ml of water (shake in amber jar).  Remove 10 ml and discard = 10% taper!  What remains is your new dose.  You can make up a few doses at once, and keep them in the fridge.  If you have to carry them, the amber bottles are good for that, too.  (4 oz is about 120 ml)

 

To take a dose, shake the bottle - drink it.  Rinse it with water, and drink that, too.  If it tastes bad, maybe chase it with orange juice.

 

As you get lower in dose, you might want to change your tools to smaller ones, with 0.5 ml gradations - but that's for later.

 

What do you think?  And - more importantly - how do you feel?

 

Does this intimidate you?  Sound easy?  Make you excited and eager to try?  How does it feel?

 

 

I hope you see the sun today!  

 

[DMV64]

5 minutes ago, JanCarol said:

Hey D -

 

Dance classes!  Great Minds Think Alike!   It was so fun!

 

So it sounds like you would like to try a test taper of the Geodon. Yes

 

A "test taper" is a  single drop in dose just to see how it's going to go for you.  It's not a set length of time - at least a month on the new dose.  Likely plan to hold over Christmas. 

 

It teaches you the techniques you will need to get a steady stable dose, and get used to making it up.  It also tells you how sensitive you will be to decreases. 

 

People who are really afraid of changes might test with 5%, most people test with 10%.  There is a doctor who tests with an initial 25% drop, but she is a doctor, and has the capability to deal with emergencies as they come up.  We're a website, and cannot support you if your life falls through the floor - so we generally recommend a 10% drop.

 

With Geodon, you are probably going to want to do a liquid taper:

How to Make a Liquid from Tablets or Capsule

Using an Oral Syringe and other Tapering Techniques

 

You will want small amber bottles (maybe 2-4) so that you can make up 3 days of liquid at a time.  The liquid does decay, so you won't want to make up more than 4 days in advance.  

Amazon - small amber bottles - 2, Amazon - small amber bottles - 4  (you can buy these locally, I'm just showing you on Amazon so you can see what they look like)

 

You will want a graduated cylinder for accurate measurement  Amazon - 100 ml Graduated cylinder - 1 ml gradations 

 

and you will want a syringe or pipette for accurate measurement. (often free at your local pharmacy - Amazon 10 pack, 10 ml syringes )

 

You may find variations in accuracy between the cylinder and the syringe.  That's okay, as long as you measure the same way each time.  Consistency is more important than accuracy.  Same dose, same time, every day.

 

If you make a 10% drop in November, and it goes well, then you have a clear direction to follow.  You can decide if you want another drop in December or not, based on your symptoms.

 

It takes at least 3 weeks for symptoms to "catch up" to a taper, which is why we recommend month long holds in between.  Do you mean I won't know for three weeks how I will feel?

 

So  - you are on 40 mg of geodon, a test taper would be 4 mg.I am on 20 so still same instructions, just clarifying....?

 

Dissolve a whole tablet in 100 ml of water (shake in amber jar).  Remove 10 ml and discard = 10% taper!  What remains is your new dose.  You can make up a few doses at once, and keep them in the fridge.  If you have to carry them, the amber bottles are good for that, too.  (4 oz is about 120 ml)

 

To take a dose, shake the bottle - drink it.  Rinse it with water, and drink that, too.  If it tastes bad, maybe chase it with orange juice.

 

As you get lower in dose, you might want to change your tools to smaller ones, with 0.5 ml gradations - but that's for later.

 

What do you think?  And - more importantly - how do you feel? I feel ok today mostly. Excited to try this.

 

Does this intimidate you?  Sound easy?  Make you excited and eager to try?  How does it feel? It makes me eager to order everything and try!

 

 

I hope you see the sun today!  

 

 

[JanCarol]

Hey D - 

 

OH - you tapered Geodon 13 September?  50%?  That's just over a  month ago.  Thank you for letting me know, and for correcting your signature.  Did you start cutting your pill in half?  Or were you taking 2x20 mg, and just dropped one?

 

50 % means that you did six months of tapering in one drop....

 

I know you're excited to get started, but - 

 

11 hours ago, DMV64 said:

 Do you mean I won't know for three weeks how I will feel?

 

That's correct (and it's why I called it a "test taper").  And now you may not know for 6-8 weeks (or longer), because of that 50% drop in September.  You cannot heal faster than your body will heal, no matter how good you are or how hard you work - a broken leg still takes 6 weeks to set. It takes neurons 3 weeks to regenerate - and these drugs are complex, which means it's usually more than one regeneration for a bigger drop.  And we don't know how much or how long with those big drops.  

 

Geodon has an affinity for 5-HT (serotonin) and D2 (dopamine) receptors.  It is complicated, as it is an agonist for 5-HT-1A and an antagonist for 5-HT-2C and 5-HT-B1/1D.  So how many 3 week regenerations is that?  Additionally, these drugs tend to hit different receptors at different doses.  This is a complex drug.  We don't know.  (and sadly, your doctors didn't know, either)

 

It may very well be that your lower dose is why you are starting to feel a bit better - but there also may be a Delayed Onset of Withdrawal Symptoms waiting for you.

 

If it were me, I would wait until January for my first taper.  When you do taper, it will be 2 mg, taking 18 mg.   You can still do the 100 ml - 10 ml with the liquid, it's the easiest way to do the maths, just the pill that you dissolve will be smaller.

 

A rule of thumb is - if you feel good for a month, wait another month before tapering.  (that's after a big drop,  an accident, or a stressor)

 

It will do you no harm to collect the stuff you need, and practice working with liquid.  Work on your non-drug techniques, and get your ducks in a row before you do any more tapering.

 

You might want to study our Pre-Tapering topic here:

Before You Begin Taper - What you Should Know

 

What kind of dance?

 

[DMV64]

1 hour ago, JanCarol said:

Hey D - 

 

OH - you tapered Geodon 13 September?  50%?  That's just over a  month ago.  Thank you for letting me know, and for correcting your signature.  Did you start cutting your pill in half?  Or were you taking 2x20 mg, and just dropped one? I think I need to better explain this and then you can tell me what you think. When I went on Saphris in June I had been on Geoden 40mg. I fast tapered off since those are two of the same/similar meds under doc advice. I did not have symptoms at that time from the taper. Then when I tried to go off Saphris at end of August and went into extreme state, doc said try adding 40 mg Geoden back in. Which I did for about 4 or so days until I reinstated Saphris and then I dropped back down to 20 mg within a few days. And that is where I have been holding. Not sure if this changes your below suggestions...let me know.

 

50 % means that you did six months of tapering in one drop....

 

I know you're excited to get started, but - 

 

 

That's correct (and it's why I called it a "test taper").  And now you may not know for 6-8 weeks (or longer), because of that 50% drop in September.  See above and let me know since I was not on long...You cannot heal faster than your body will heal, no matter how good you are or how hard you work - a broken leg still takes 6 weeks to set. It takes neurons 3 weeks to regenerate - and these drugs are complex, which means it's usually more than one regeneration for a bigger drop.  And we don't know how much or how long with those big drops.  

 

Geodon has an affinity for 5-HT (serotonin) and D2 (dopamine) receptors.  It is complicated, as it is an agonist for 5-HT-1A and an antagonist for 5-HT-2C and 5-HT-B1/1D.  So how many 3 week regenerations is that?  Additionally, these drugs tend to hit different receptors at different doses.  This is a complex drug.  We don't know.  (and sadly, your doctors didn't know, either) Whoa. This is great but I sadly do not really know what it means!

 

It may very well be that your lower dose is why you are starting to feel a bit better - but there also may be a Delayed Onset of Withdrawal Symptoms waiting for you. I hope not!

 

If it were me, I would wait until January for my first taper.  When you do taper, it will be 2 mg, taking 18 mg.   You can still do the 100 ml - 10 ml with the liquid, it's the easiest way to do the maths, just the pill that you dissolve will be smaller.

 

A rule of thumb is - if you feel good for a month, wait another month before tapering.  (that's after a big drop,  an accident, or a stressor)

 

It will do you no harm to collect the stuff you need, and practice working with liquid.  Work on your non-drug techniques, and get your ducks in a row before you do any more tapering.

 

You might want to study our Pre-Tapering topic here:

Before You Begin Taper - What you Should Know

 

What kind of dance? It's called Nia dance...freeform, going with what feels good in your body!

 

 

[DMV64]

10/14with current supplements added

6:15AM: Wake with no panic. 

6:30AM: 5mg Vyvanse.   2 teaspoons ground flax seeds, 1 scoop Progreens, Probiotic, 20mg gentle iron, 2 soft gel fish oil Want to add back in Ultrainflammex as IBS symptoms worse. I don't think it seemed to be affecting much.

7:00: 1mg Klonopin

9:00: teach

11:00AM: Brunch 100mg gabapentin

1: workshop 10 Mg Geoden

3Pm Tired wave.

4:30PM: 1000mg magnesium 1 cap of 500 is citrate. 

6:30PM dinner 100mg gabapentin. 

9PM:  will take 500 magnesium 600mg calcium.

9:00PM:  2 teaspoons ground flax seeds

10:00PM will take 2.5mg Saphris with .5 Cogentin at 10 before bed along . And 20 mg omeprazole. 100mg gabapentin. 

[DMV64]

10/15with current supplements added

6:15AM: Wake with slight panic. 

6:30AM: 5mg Vyvanse.   2 teaspoons ground flax seeds, 1 scoop Progreens, Probiotic, 20mg gentle iron, 2 soft gel fish oil Want to add back in Ultrainflammex as IBS symptoms worse. I don't think it seemed to be affecting much.

7:00: 1mg Klonopin

9:00: teach

11:00AM: Take a class 100mg gabapentin

12: lunch 10 Mg Geoden

1-2Pm at studio. 1000mg magnesium 1 cap of 500 is citrate.

3PM teetering on panic.

4:30PM: 100mg gabapentin.  

6:00PM meeting

7:30pm: dinner

9PM:  will take 500 magnesium 600mg calcium.

9:00PM:  2 teaspoons ground flax seeds

10:00PM 2.5mg Saphris with .5 Cogentin at 10 before bed along . And 20 mg omeprazole. 100mg gabapentin. 

 

[DMV64]

10/16with current supplements added

6:15AM: Wake with no panic. 

6:30AM: 5mg Vyvanse.   2 teaspoons ground flax seeds, 1 scoop Progreens, Probiotic, 20mg gentle iron, 2 soft gel fish oil Want to add back in Ultrainflammex as IBS symptoms worse. I don't think it seemed to be affecting much.

7:00: 1mg Klonopin

9:00: yoga

11:00AM: 100mg gabapentin

12: lunch 10 Mg Geoden

2Pm: hard to focus

3PM 1000mg magnesium 1 cap of 500 is citrate.

4:30PM: 100mg gabapentin.  

5:30PM meeting

7PM teach

8:30pm: dinner

9PM:   500 magnesium 600mg calcium.

9:30PM:  2 teaspoons ground flax seeds

10:00PM will take 2.5mg Saphris with .5 Cogentin at 10 before bed along . And 20 mg omeprazole. 100mg gabapentin. 

[DMV64]

10/17with current supplements added

6:15AM: Wake with no panic. 

6:30AM: 5mg Vyvanse.   2 teaspoons ground flax seeds, 1 scoop Progreens, Probiotic, 20mg gentle iron, 2 soft gel fish oil Want to add back in Ultrainflammex as IBS symptoms worse. I don't think it seemed to be affecting much.

7:00: Run.

8Am: 1mg Klonopin

9:00: computer

11:00AM: 100mg gabapentin

12:yoga

2Pm:  lunch 10 Mg Geoden

3:30PM 1000mg magnesium 1 cap of 500 is citrate. Nauseous

5:00PM: 100mg gabapentin.  

7PM Dinner

9PM:   500 magnesium 600mg calcium.

9:30PM:  2 teaspoons ground flax seeds

10:00PM will take 2.5mg Saphris with .5 Cogentin at 10 before bed along . And 20 mg omeprazole. 100mg gabapentin. 

 

[JanCarol]

Hey D - 

 

On 10/10/2017 at 0:29 PM, DMV64 said:

I’m wondering if the Cogentin is causing me to gain some weight.

 

This is the least of your worries.  Compared to intensification of withdrawal symptoms, weight gain is nothing.  

I know you are a yoga teacher and how your body "looks" can be important for that - however - if you are "chunkier" perhaps you will more greatly appeal to the millions of Americans who feel they can't do yoga because they're "too fat"?  

 

I wouldn't fixate on weight right now.

 

Just keep on the same drugs.  Benadryl is an antihistamine, Cogentin is an anti-Parkinsons drug.  Two different animals.  Just be thankful that it's not Lyrica or Neurontin, as these are harder to taper.  Alto says here (http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/803-dr-peter-breggins-10-taper-method/

 

Quote

Similarly, if you're taking Cogentin or Artane or some other drug to suppress movement disorders caused by neuroleptics, you should probably first reduce your neuroleptic before you attempt to withdraw from the Cogentin or Artane.

 

 

Okay, so you were only on 40 mg Geodon for a few days, that's what I understand?

 

You realize that I'm not the one making the choices here? 

 

Do you feel well enough to try a small taper of the Geodon?  It is, ultimately, up to you.

 

Since it was not a 50% drop, but a temporary updose - I have no objections - if your symptoms are stable enough to try.

 

Sorry it took so long to get back, I have had challenges of my own lately (flu, tendonitis, pain, fatigue), and have been in training for an event which is taking nearly all of my energy!

 

How are you feeling now?

 

I hope you see the sun today.

[DMV64]

4 hours ago, JanCarol said:

Hey D - 

 

 

This is the least of your worries.  Compared to intensification of withdrawal symptoms, weight gain is nothing.  True. It seems to have subsided so thats good.

I know you are a yoga teacher and how your body "looks" can be important for that - however - if you are "chunkier" perhaps you will more greatly appeal to the millions of Americans who feel they can't do yoga because they're "too fat"?  

 

I wouldn't fixate on weight right now.

 

Just keep on the same drugs.  Benadryl is an antihistamine, Cogentin is an anti-Parkinsons drug.  Two different animals.  Just be thankful that it's not Lyrica or Neurontin, as these are harder to taper.  Alto says here (http://survivingantidepressants.org/topic/803-dr-peter-breggins-10-taper-method/

 

 

 

Okay, so you were only on 40 mg Geodon for a few days, that's what I understand? Yes

 

You realize that I'm not the one making the choices here? Yes.

 

Do you feel well enough to try a small taper of the Geodon?  It is, ultimately, up to you. I do feel I am ready to try.

 

Since it was not a 50% drop, but a temporary updose - I have no objections - if your symptoms are stable enough to try. I feel pretty good. Not perfectly ok, but pretty good.

 

Sorry it took so long to get back, I have had challenges of my own lately (flu, tendonitis, pain, fatigue), and have been in training for an event which is taking nearly all of my energy! Aw! Hope you are feeling better!

 

How are you feeling now? The past few days have been really good. I am so grateful for them. I feel calmer. 

 

I hope you see the sun today. Just ran!!

 

[DMV64]

10/18with current supplements added

6:00AM: Wake with no panic. 

6:15AM: 5mg Vyvanse.   2 teaspoons ground flax seeds, 1 scoop Progreens, Probiotic, 20mg gentle iron, 2 soft gel fish oil Want to add back in Ultrainflammex as IBS symptoms worse. I don't think it seemed to be affecting much.

8AM: 1mg Klonopin

10:00: teach

11:00AM: 100mg gabapentin

12:teach

2Pm:  lunch 10 Mg Geoden

3:30PM 1000mg magnesium 1 cap of 500 is citrate.

5:00PM: 100mg gabapentin.  

7PM Dinner

9PM:   500 magnesium 600mg calcium.

9:30PM:  2 teaspoons ground flax seeds

10:00PM  2.5mg Saphris with .5 Cogentin at 10 before bed along . And 20 mg omeprazole. 100mg gabapentin. 

[DMV64]

10/19with current supplements added

6:00AM: Wake with no panic. 

6:15AM: 5mg Vyvanse.   2 teaspoons ground flax seeds, 1 scoop Progreens, Probiotic, 20mg gentle iron, 2 soft gel fish oil Want to add back in Ultrainflammex as IBS symptoms worse. I don't think it seemed to be affecting much.

8AM: 1mg Klonopin

9:30: teach

11:00AM: 100mg gabapentin

12:lunch

1Pm:  teach

2pm: 10 Mg Geoden

3:30PM 1000mg magnesium 1 cap of 500 is citrate.

5:00PM: 100mg gabapentin.

6:30: teach.  

8:30PM Dinner

9PM:   500 magnesium 600mg calcium.

9:30PM:  2 teaspoons ground flax seeds

10:30PM  2.5mg Saphris with .5 Cogentin at 10 before bed along . And 20 mg omeprazole. 100mg gabapentin. 

[DMV64]

Hey all.

Tuesday is my first appointment with the new, potentially more supportive doctor. I have an information sheet prepared. I know I will not see the main doc til the end of the session. I would like him to read it as well as his resident. I am trying to simplify. Any suggestions welcome!

[DMV64]

10/20with current supplements added

7:00AM: Wake with a startle of panic. Was I dreaming?

7:15AM: 5mg Vyvanse.   2 teaspoons ground flax seeds, 1 scoop Progreens, Probiotic, 20mg gentle iron, 2 soft gel fish oil Want to add back in Ultrainflammex as IBS symptoms worse. I don't think it seemed to be affecting much.

8AM: 1mg Klonopin

9:30: dance

11:00AM: 100mg gabapentin

12:lunch

1PM:  10 Mg Geoden

3:00PM 1000mg magnesium 2 cap of 500 is citrate.

5:00PM: 100mg gabapentin.

6:30: teach.  

7:30PM Dinner

9PM:   500 magnesium 600mg calcium.

9:30PM: will take  2 teaspoons ground flax seeds

10:30PM  Will take 2.5mg Saphris with .5 Cogentin at 10 before bed along . And 20 mg omeprazole. 100mg gabapentin. 

[DMV64]

10/21with current supplements added

5:30AM: Wake with a mild panic

5:45AM: 5mg Vyvanse.   2 teaspoons ground flax seeds, 1 scoop Progreens, Probiotic, 20mg gentle iron, 2 soft gel fish oil Want to add back in Ultrainflammex as IBS symptoms worse. I don't think it seemed to be affecting much.

6AM:run

7am: 1mg Klonopin

9:15: teach

11:00AM: 100mg gabapentin

12:lunch

1PM:  10 Mg Geoden

3:00PM 1000mg magnesium 2 cap of 500 is citrate.

5:00PM: 100mg gabapentin.

5:00: teach.  

9PM Dinner

9PM:   500 magnesium 600mg calcium.

9:30PM: will take  2 teaspoons ground flax seeds

10:30PM  Will take 2.5mg Saphris with .5 Cogentin at 10 before bed along . And 20 mg omeprazole. 100mg gabapentin. 

[DMV64]

10/22with current supplements added

6:00AM: Wake with a no panic

6:15AM: 5mg Vyvanse.   2 teaspoons ground flax seeds, 1 scoop Progreens, Probiotic, 20mg gentle iron, 2 soft gel fish oil Want to add back in Ultrainflammex as IBS symptoms worse. I don't think it seemed to be affecting much.

7am: 1mg Klonopin

9:15: teach

11:00AM: 100mg gabapentin

12:lunch

12PM:  10 Mg Geoden

3:00PM 1000mg magnesium 2 cap of 500 is citrate.

5:00PM: 100mg gabapentin.

6:00: meeting  

7PM Dinner

8PM:   500 magnesium 600mg calcium.

9:30PM: will take  2 teaspoons ground flax seeds

10:30PM  Will take 2.5mg Saphris with .5 Cogentin at 10 before bed along . And 20 mg omeprazole. 100mg gabapentin.