DMV64: reinstate Saphris?

[bubble]

www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1754-coq10-coenzyme-q10/

 

Just google surviving antidepressants Q10

[DMV64]

Thanks Bubble!!

[DMV64]

So far today is better than yesterday. I think it might help that I taught a class early in the morning and got out of my head. And I also manage to take a nap. So I feel more functional today and definitely less anxious and depressed

[wantrelief]

I am glad you are feeling better today, DMV! 

[DMV64]

I am having ANOTHER day of feeling almost normal!!

[DMV64]

Ok well 2 good days and 2 bad days. Yep. Now feeling ok. Scared of the morning though, they are always so hard. WHY? I had my cortisol checked and it wasn't even high in the morning!

[Rosetta]

I question that cortisol test -- the timing, not the result.  If the cortisol is supposed to slowly rise from about 4:00 am in the morning to wake us up and something has gone wrong with that system maybe we have used up all our cortisol by the time we get to the doctor's office?  I wonder what the cortisol does -- how it affects adrenalin.  My"cortisol spikes" feel like adrenaline bursts, and maybe they are.  I'm wondering if cortisol is no long detectable in the blood at about 8:00 or 8:30 because it's been converted into something else?  I wish I could read dense medical studies, but, alas, no, I can't.  The headache alone deters me.

[DMV64]

1 minute ago, Rosetta said:

4:00 am 

Yes!  I think that you could be onto something. Because mine tend  to start about the same time and I think it is true that by eight or 830 we could be back down again. 

[Rabe]

I usually seem to feel better later as well...but later than 8.  Wish I could exchange that and feel good in day and bad later! Thinking of you DMV!!!💜

[DMV64]

Are usually start to feel good around three and it lasts until about eight

[DMV64]

A little kind of off topic. Need help. I want to stop coffee. It is increasing my morning anxiety. However I suffer from IBS-C and the cafffiene helps me have a bowel movement. Any ideas on what I could do? I hope this is not TMI. It is a real problem for me.

[Rosetta]

Magnesium will help you with the bm.  I stopped coffee and had the same problem.  If you increase your mag dose in the morning it will help.  First of all stop the coffee slowly.  Have less and less and then switch to decafe.  Meanwhile increase the mag dose.  It's going to take a while to figure out the right dose and you may have diarrhea, but eventually you will get it right.  Also, if it doesn't work at first have some extra coffee to help when you get too uncomfortable. 

[DMV64]

Thank you!!

[Rosetta]

Sure.  Be careful.  I had a terrible cramps when I had too much mag.  It's a difficult balancing act. Be home for at least a few hours after the mag dose.  It takes a while to work and then you may be cursing me while you are trapped in the bathroom!!

[DMV64]

I do already take magnesium. Maybe I just take more?

[Rabe]

Good luck with the coffee 'taper' DMV!!!  If it isn't the meds its out food and drink!  Take care!!!💜

[Rosetta]

22 hours ago, DMV64 said:

I do already take magnesium. Maybe I just take more?

 

Yes.  That's my experience.  I quit coffee, and I have to have magnesium or else . . . You know.  But it's easy to overdo it for me.  The dose seems to vary with my cycle, too.  Could be too much sometimes or the hormones are causing the problem on their own.  If I have coffee out and the person accidentally gives me caffeinated then it's a problem sometimes.  Pretty amazing how sensitive we are.  What I do is take a little extra if I know it's been too long since there was movement, but if you choose morning to do that you can't go anywhere.  If I decide to do that at bedtime I'll be up after I fall asleep. So, having it with dinner is a good way to avoid problems maybe.  Having it with food is a good idea anyway.

[JanCarol]

Hey D - 

 

Sorry I am over a month behind!  It's been an intense time for me - my studio is closed, and I am in mourning.  When I try to tell people that I am sad because the studio is closed, they are like, "Cheer up, something will come along," but I feel it is appropriate to mourn the old before launching into the new.  Geez, people hate to hear about feelings, don't they?  Especially if they are not happy, cheerful, upbeat things.

 

I noticed this:

On 11/11/2018 at 9:55 AM, DMV64 said:

the more I read the more I feel like I am never getting out of this. I don't know. There are so many angles, so many approaches, just so much information. I just want to get better. I wonder if I am doing the right things at the right times. Eating right, cleaning my house with the right products. In some ways I feel my functionality has dipped lately.

 

Okay. 

 

Perfectionism = anxiety.  

 

Say that to yourself.  Pefectionism = anxiety.  "Doing it right" or "perfect" or whatever - only makes one anxious that it is not right or perfect.

 

Perfectionism = anxiety.

 

I had an anxious friend who is very much a perfectionist (she is an artist).  Her counsellor advised her to make mistakes on purpose.  In the past, she would destroy a work as soon as it wasn't "perfect," now she is doing better to achieve "good" and "nice" and "well" and "better."  She said that the "Wreck this Journal" book by Keri Smith helped her a lot.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/428862.Wreck_This_Journal

 

Release "doing it right."  Just let go of it.  There is no right - only what makes you feel better.

If Limbic Retraining is stressing you out - don't do it.  Do Yoga Nidra instead, or phone a friend, or take a walk.  Do what makes you feel better.  That's the only hard and fast rule.

The more "things that make you feel better" (we call it a toolkit) you have, then the more options you have when you are stressed, distressed, or struggling. 

Taking classes and learning things is great - and perhaps there is something from them that you can add to your toolkit.  But only if they make you feel better.

 

On 11/11/2018 at 10:25 PM, DMV64 said:

He took a lot of blood’s. One of them was my cortisol in the morning and my cortisol in the afternoon. He was surprised to find that it is reversed, meaning it is low in the morning and high in the afternoon. And I was surprised because I keep waking up with what I think are cortisol spikes but now that doesn’t make any sense. So I’m wondering what else could be causing the intense fear, anxiety and dread and panic in the morning every morning when I wake up.

 

My doc used a urine test, which I took 6 times in a 24 hour period.

So - you went to a lab in the morning and in the afternoon?  Or was it just a skin prick?  

Were you having that "cortisol feeling" when you took your blood test?  

The afternoon one makes sense - you have frequently complained that afternoons have a "hard spot" in them.

I put very little value on blood tests while you are on the drugs.  The drugs make things unnatural (as you have noticed).  

Off to do my daily tai chi - I will be back!  (sorry I've been hard to reach)

I hope you see the sun today, even if it is a winter one.

[DMV64]

6 hours ago, JanCarol said:

Perfectionism = anxiety.

Yes. This is so true. I am trying to lower my expectations. 

Yeah. Limbic Retraining is just too much for me right now. It makes me sad I can’t comprehend it. 

I went to the doctor in the morning for a blood test not a skin prick. But I didn’t go until 830 that was the earliest they could take me and really my cortisol spikes usually start happening around four and 530 and seven. So whatever that is.

 Anyway I’ve been feeling very up-and-down. Part of it is the holidays. Part of it is just feeling like I would like this particular symptoms to update. Thanks for checking in!  Congratulations on your black belt!!

Love DMV 

[DMV64]

Leaving tomorrow for Florida. Unfortunately I am sick with a cold. My allergies to Zelda are making me very susceptible.  This is the second sick in a month. The whole time I have lived here I have hardly been sick. But since we got her I have. Maybe have to start shots. 

[JanCarol]

hey D - 

 

On 11/12/2018 at 11:57 PM, DMV64 said:

I forgot to mention my integrative doctor had the Breggins book on his shelf!

 

OH WOW that's terrific!  It must feel so encouraging to see "Uncle Peter" at your doctor's office.  Well, his books at least.  (I think of Breggin as a kindly uncle who testifies in court on your behalf!)

 

His podcast is pretty good, too - he is so compassionate, and very open to learning new things.

 

On 11/13/2018 at 1:50 AM, manymoretodays said:

The CYP interactions can cause drastic changes in how your drug combination is metabolized........versus, if you were just taking one drug singularly.

 

So.  That's our introductory session for today's class.  JC may come by with a guided tutorial video soon.  She finds some great stuff.

 

LOL most of what I find, I found here - but this is a big site, and there's a lot of stuff here!  I looked at MMT's link, and - yup.  That's what I would've sent!  Especially the IU School of Medicine link - which - in clearest language, if 2 drugs are in the same column, you shouldn't be taking both of them.

 

On 11/16/2018 at 5:46 AM, DMV64 said:

11:30 lunch and 6mg Geoden also magnesium

 

Hmmm, does it help to take the magnesium with it?  

I'm wondering if some low dose thiamine might be helpful.  It seems to counteract a lot of the side effects of neuroleptic/antipsychotics.  If you do decide to try this, please please get the smallest dose you can find, break the tablets into quarters, and try a quarter with your Saphris.  It won't be a "fix," but it might be a "help."

 

On 11/16/2018 at 5:46 AM, DMV64 said:

omeprozole

 

Is this new?  I don't remember you being on a PPI.  How long have you taken this?

PPI's are damaging to bones, and can be depressing.  
That Acid Reflux Pill May Be Causing Your Health Problems  - it may not be something you can address right away, but when you are ready, Tips for tapering of PPI stomach acid drugs

 

On 11/21/2018 at 2:04 AM, DMV64 said:

I spoke to a doc at iop yesterday. He was saying if the withdrawal doesn’t end then it is not withdrawal. It is a psychiatric condition. Talked about brain growing back connection, making more or less of what it needs overtime. I don’t know.  It was hard. He didn’t mention a timeline but I kind of felt it was probably a lot less time than what I am going through.  : (

 

This makes me want to say a lot of swear words.

It's typical.  There is a lot of this going around - a UK Royal College of Psychiatrists muckety muck important whatever person just had to quit - because he wrote a letter to the editor of a UK newspaper stating, "most withdrawal ends at 2-3 weeks."  LOL the survivors ripped him a new one, so much so that he felt compelled to quit from his muckety muck position!

It's simply not true.  The timelines I look at are:

4 days for drug adjustment

3 weeks for neurotransmitter adjustment

3 months - might feel a difference (or, conversely, post CT, might be the hammer drop) 

6 months - same as 3 months

12-18 months - starting to heal

3 years - becoming human again (still not fully healed)

 

I haven't lived past the 3 year mark, but I think that's the main turning point in many ways.

Brassmonkey says it better than I ever could:
Are We There Yet? How Long is Withdrawal Going to Take?  

 

On 11/23/2018 at 9:42 AM, DMV64 said:

I don’t believe this. I never had any of these symptoms before I was on these drugs. I only had some anxiety and slight depression. 

 

That's the spirit!

 

On 11/28/2018 at 8:04 AM, DMV64 said:

I would just like to happily announce that my daughter has come off of her anti-depressant successfully so far.

 

Please let her know that if she went off quickly (you know how quickly is too quickly - you've been here long enough!) that she may wish to reinstate and taper before that 3-6 month hammer drops....

Some - especially the young, and the drug-naive (was this her first antidepressant?) can get away with it - but 30-60% have a more extreme process.

 

I'm happy for her that she wants to be drug free - I want her to be successfully drug free!  Just like you.  We're taking it slow and easy because we want you to survive and thrive!

 

(though I'm sure it doesn't feel easy!)

 

On 11/29/2018 at 11:58 AM, Rosetta said:

I'm so sorry that your doctor didn't warn you.

 

I'm so sorry that doctors still think it is okay to give the flox drugs out!  EGADS - there is a lot of suffering from the FLOX stuff!

It's actually a good thing that you reacted quickly and only had a short course of it - instead of finishing the course only to find out that you could no longer walk or something equally horrible.  Consider yourself lucky!

 

On 12/1/2018 at 4:20 AM, DMV64 said:

My husband tells me he sees progress but I honestly don’t know if I believe him. 

 

Believe him!  He can see you from the outside.  He can see if you are shaking, how well you present yourself, the expressions on your face.  You may feel like a mess inside, but you may be getting better and still be unable to see it.  Your husband has the perspective to see it more clearly than you do.

I've been surprised by my husband's vehement declarations.  Like, someone asked, "did the orthomolecular doc help Jan?" and he strongly said, "OMG YES!" and I didn't think it was that big of a difference, but he sure thought it was!

Anything that makes you (and me) easier to live with - affects them immediately.  So - trust him.  Believe him.

 

And see the sun today?

[DMV64]

 I did mention the reflux drugs somewhere along the line. I’ve been taking it ever since I had the endoscopy maybe it was 2002? So I was on Nexium I got all that and onto the omeprazole. Eventually it would be nice to get that out of the mix as well but I can’t think that far ahead. For today I’m trying to be as calm as possible about packing and getting my tapering materials together and prepared for travel. I have the liquids all split up into 3 ounce bottles so I won’t have any trouble carrying them on the airplane.

This was not my daughters first anti-depressant. She had been on a few others for short periods of time. I hope that she has made it successfully off and does not have the 3 to 6 month crash.

What is this supplement you speak of? Maybe when I get back I will try it!

[JanCarol]

Hey D - 

 

On 12/8/2018 at 10:11 PM, DMV64 said:

He increased my estrogen after the blood came back since he said it was low. He also recommended that I take zinc because my zinc to copper ratio was off and CO Q 10 -other people had mentioned Coq10 but I don’t know what it’s really supposed to do. Thoughts?

 

The zinc is often good for balancing excess emotionality.  But this is a lot of adjustments.  There are a lot of plusses and minuses to adjusting the estrogen - but - please do not taper, as that counts as a change.  Give the estrogen a month to see what it is doing, before tapering again (sorry - but Doctors don't always understand 3 KIS's Keep It Simple, Slow, Stable )

 

Zinc is cheap (don't buy an expensive one, if your doctor offers expensive supplements, be wary).  Pretty much at any time, you can start with the smallest possible dose.  I get 50 mg tablets, and you can cut those into quarters, and try a quarter for a week to see if it helps.

CoQ10 - are you on a statin?  Statins are depressing, cause cog-fog, muscle weakness, and other problems - including they deplete CoQ10.  It is excellent for vitality and anti-aging in general - but can be overstimulating for people in withdrawal.  

NAC is awesome, I take it.  It helps you produce glutathione, which is excellent for cleaning up and repairing at the cell level.  HOWEVER, it is stimulating, and it is sulfurous - so some folks don't tolerate it.  

 

And I was wrong above about the Thiamine (B1) - the best B vitamin to consider is Riboflavin (B2) which is depleted by your anti-psychotics.  Again - all vitamins and supplements can be fiddly and start that basketball bouncing again - so approach all supplements with great care.

 

One member told me that to test a supplement, take only what will fit on the tine of a fork for a week before increasing.

 

As always - only change one supplement at a time, so that you know whether it is helping or harming.  Give the supplement at least a week before increasing it, or adding a different one.

On 12/10/2018 at 8:08 AM, DMV64 said:

I am having ANOTHER day of feeling almost normal!!

 

WINDOWS!  You ARE healing!!!!!

 

So your hubby is probably right, you are getting better.  It's been a challenging month with the bronchitis, pneumonia, steroids and antibiotics - and here you are - having WINDOWS!

 

😺

On 12/20/2018 at 10:50 PM, DMV64 said:

 Congratulations on your black belt!!

 

Thank you!

[DMV64]

Omg. I am sick again with upper respiratory infection! Now put on doxecycline and prednisone. At least doc went on to drugs.com right there to check interactions and saw major interaction with Geoden and z-pack. 

[Rabe]

Gee whiz DMV!!  Im so sorry!!  SO hope you feel better soon!!!  Take care of yourself!!!💜

[DMV64]

48 minutes ago, Rabe said:

sorry

Thank you.  This really stinks. : (

[FarmGirlWorks]

On 12/21/2018 at 6:43 AM, JanCarol said:

inc is cheap (don't buy an expensive one, if your doctor offers expensive supplements, be wary).  Pretty much at any time, you can start with the smallest possible dose.  I get 50 mg tablets, and you can cut those into quarters, and try a quarter for a week to see if it helps.

Sorry to hear about the new infection -- ugh! Hang in there. I started getting oysters in the can to supplement my zinc. I do notice a bit of a difference when I do that.

[Rosetta]

OH!  Hugs, DMV.  Lots of fluids, right?

[DMV64]

Whew, oysters in the can. I don't think I could do that! Ha! True though. This sick is pretty bad and of course the antibiotics make me feel worse. Just trying to hang in there. Thanks everyone.

[DMV64]

@manymoretodays @JanCarol Ok so I am dissolving my whole dose of 2.5 (on box dose) in 5ml water and taking 2ml and holding it in mouth for 10 minutes right? I am on .009 now. The new dose should be .008 down from a total scale weight of .025. 

[JanCarol]

That sounds right.

How are you doing?

I wouldn't taper anymore while they are pumping you full of antibiotics and steroids.  These count as changes, and stop right in the middle.

So how was the trip south - or were you too sick to go?

[DMV64]

I am pretty sick. I think I am not on the right antibiotic. It doesn’t seem to be quite working and now I have developed a sinus infection.  I’m going back to the doctor today to see what can be done. Florida was OK but I was sick the whole time. I had a pretty heavy duty talk with my parents about a lot of historical stuff. It was good but it was also hard. I am not doing that well right now.  I think travel and sick have taken me down. 

Also my son informed me that going forward he would be spending the holidays with his future wife’s family because holidays are more important to them. 

I was like, “Huh?”

He is a little on the spectrum. But still. 

I am hurt and angry. 

Holidays have always been a shared affair in my family. I don’t know what to say. I guess it’s his choice. 

This morning having a lot of anxiety and fear. 

[DMV64]

Also I have to get endoscopy tomorrow. I’m hoping it doesn’t mess with my tapering too much. I feel pretty off-center from traveling.

[JackieDecides]

12 hours ago, DMV64 said:

Also my son informed me that going forward he would be spending the holidays with his future wife’s family because holidays are more important to them. 

that's harsh. 

I'm sorry things aren't going too well right now and I hope the infection gets cleared up soon. 

 

[DMV64]

Thank you.  Xo

[Rabe]

Oh DMV I am so sorry for all that you are dealing with. You have a right to be hurt and angry. Hope your endoscopy goes well an that your infection clears soon.  Have they done a culture or anything? 

Take care DMV💜