MiguelFreeman: question about Lexapro

[MiguelFreeman]

25 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Please add this.

right ther or the benzo area 

[ChessieCat]

In your signature.  We need to be able to see a summary of all your drugs in the last 2 years.

[baroquep]

22 hours ago, MiguelFreeman said:

I understand I just wona go whit the 10 % taper just to prevent damage but i know maybe i can go faster from 10 to 5 and then start liquid but i prefer to start 10 % now just to prevent damage and help my brain by not going 2 fast better slow the sorry 

 

Miguel, I am a little concerned as you have mentioned a couple of times that you feel that you can go faster and I must caution you again that in your situation, I feel that you must take things very slowly regardless of whether you feel you can go faster at this time.  You have made a lot of changes in a very short period of time and that you experienced extreme withdrawal when you quit cold turkey, means that your central nervous system is highly sensitive to anything you attempt to do now.  

 

I have to stress that you need to be very cautious and go slowly and would appreciate it if you would read the links I have attached below so that you understand the reasons behind going slowly.  Since you have reinstated quite a large amount of Lexapro, 2.5mg, only yesterday, you need to hold at this dose for a very long time to ensure that you are stable before you start tapering again.  I would recommend that you remain at 10mg for at least the next three months.  These drugs are very strong even in small doses and you don't want to have to experience what you went through back in May of this year when you CT'd.  

 

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

Before you begin tapering what you need to know

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

As ChessieCat mentioned above, it would be a good idea if you kept a diary to keep track of your symptoms on a daily basis so that we can be prepared if you run into any trouble. You are not in a race to get off of these drugs, your goal should be to get off of Lexapro safely with as few withdrawal symptoms as possible.  Please continue to post and let us know how you are doing over the next few days.  

 

3 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

It is a good idea to keep notes on paper of your symptoms.  This can help you to see improvements that you may not notice.

 

Keep Notes on Paper
Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist. 

 

Hopefully by doing SA's recommended taper you won't get the same problem.   If you do start experiencing GI issues when you taper it means that you are making too big a reduction and will need to make smaller drops.

 

Edited September 23, 2017 by baroquep

[MiguelFreeman]

I went back to 10, not cus of withdraw effects  but because my mother wants me to do it under doctor supervision 

it indeed affected my intestines making me go to the bathroom 4 times in one day 

but it wasn't that bad and only happen after 7 days of the reduction 

 

but this medication is a burden just feel it's slowing me down 

 

and what I feel after coming back to 10 is the same  thing Sleeping all day and living on the night sleeping again waking up a 3 in the afternoon nothing more no withdraw like effects  my stomach and intestines are stable 

coffee gives me some anxiety now don't know why 

 

[MiguelFreeman]

I have no anxiety during the day  I just feel sad in being on this medication but not depressed  

[MiguelFreeman]

my Gp said I had symptomatic anxiety because I went their whit a list of symptoms i felt after CT 

that I now understand was all because of the withdraw and not from anxiety since all of the symptoms are gone ...

and when i am anxiety I can call my shelf down 

 

I just feel that the longer I am on this medication the more harm the will do 

[ChessieCat]

5 minutes ago, MiguelFreeman said:

coffee gives me some anxiety now don't know why 

 

I have had to change to decaffeinated coffee.  It's because your central nervous system (CNS) has been destabilised.  Se this discussion:  caffeine-in-coffee-or-tea-tolerance-issues

 

[MiguelFreeman]

1 minute ago, ChessieCat said:

 

I have had to change to decaffeinated coffee.  It's because your central nervous system (CNS) has been destabilised.  Se this discussion:  caffeine-in-coffee-or-tea-tolerance-issues

 

So now I shude wait until it stabilizes how long  I know one of the admins said 3 mouths prob will do that and just ask my new psychiatrist  for the liquid form just to start preparing everything to taper after I become stable 

but the fun part is that I don't feel any withdraw effects after reinstating the 10 mg just sleeping all day ^^

[ChessieCat]

Were you sleeping a lot when you were taking 10mg or a higher dose before?  If you were, then that would be a side effect of the drug and means you have increased your Lexapro by too much.

 

If you weren't getting bad withdrawal symptoms when you were taking 7.5mg you should have stayed on 7.5mg.  If you have only taken 1 or 2 days of 10mg and you were coping with your withdrawal symptoms on 7.5mg my suggestion is that you go back to 7.5mg for your next dose.  Note:  this needs to be done immediately if you are going to do it.  If you take 10mg for 2 or 3 more days you will have to stay at 10mg.

 

If you were getting bad withdrawal symptoms when you were taking 7.5mg increasing your dose by a small amount might have been enough to help with the withdrawal symptoms without producing the side effect of sleeping (if that is what it is).  Instead of going back to 7.5mg as suggested above your could take 8mg or 8.5mg.

 

You need to decide what dose you are going to take and stick to it.

[bubble]

Since you are only 18 and if you have to do as your mother and your doctor say we might not be able to help you.

 

We are all here on this forum, people from all over the world, because our doctors and family don't understand things about tapering and withdrawal.

 

Your doctor might not support your need to taper (even if he is the best doctor in the country). He may even suggest you increase your dose, change to some other drug and/or add more drugs.

 

The majority of doctors have never heard of 10 % tapering and think this is nonsense. In your case even if someone agrees to 'taper' your drug they will most likely say go to 5 mg and after 2 weeks stop taking it. They believe that withdrawal symptoms last only for 2 weeks (when they are mostly physical) and for everything else when the true withdrawal hits they will say this is your 'mental illness' returning and you again end up on more drugs and higher doses which might or might not help.

 

This is a very sad state of affairs that all of us much older than you have great difficulties dealing with.

 

The way we manage is that we don't complain too much about our symptoms to our doctors and families. For many of us they still believe we are taking much higher 'therapeutic' doses.

 

As long as we manage our tapering process ourselves very carefully to avoid symptoms, they feel we are coping and doing well so they stop insisting. They all hate to see us suffer and want to stop it and the only way they know of doing it is throwing more drugs at us.

 

I hope you will understand what I tried to tell you. One other possibility is that you try to ask your mom to read some of this. But unfortunately when there are different approaches people trust doctors and not something written on an online forum.

 

I think it is very important for you to be aware of all this. Being only 18 you did an amazing thing to find this forum, join it and inform yourself. But I'm just not sure whether you will be able to manage your situation if your mother and your doctor don't support this approach which is the case for most of us here.

[MiguelFreeman]

my mother cant read English  i think i will make it I will just go to my doctor and ask him for the liquid form and then maybe taper i already took my dose for today soo 10 mg today 

maybe I shud just keep taking 10 mg and after I get the liquid form of the escitalopram I just taper 

btw I am still trying to think what I will do in case I don't get the liquid version ... and making my owe gonna be hard since my mother will not understand 

prob cutting the pills ... 

Btw the sleeping all day I had it even before CT so it's a side effect 

[baroquep]

Miguel, I think you should wait to talk to your doctor and talk to him about your desire to taper off of these drugs.  That way, your mother will be able to feel comfortable about what you are doing.  Obviously your mother had a bit of a scare when you ran into trouble back in May and I understand this.  As Bubble mentioned, it is going to be difficult for us to help you if your mother isn't aware of the recommendations made here.  My suggestion would be to see if you can get the support from your doctor who can explain to your mother what it is you would like to do.  It's important to have both the support of your doctor and mother during this process as it can be a difficult one.  Why don't you continue to take the 10mg until you see your doctor and then we can help you from there.  It would not be recommended to switch drugs or add any other drugs as this will certainly make things a lot more difficult.  I am going to attach the links about how to talk with your doctor again so that you can put together a plan with him to help you safely taper off of Lexapro.

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?
What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

By any chance do you have a compounding pharmacy in your area?  You have other options besides preparing a liquid yourself if you doctor doesn't agree to provide you with a liquid version.  At this time, I don't think you need to worry about how you are going to prepare your doses going forward, you just need to worry about taking the same dose every single day until you are stabilized.  As ChessieCat mentioned, if you were already experiencing withdrawal after taking 7.5mg, 10mg is probably only going to make those symptoms worse, taking more of the drug when you are already experiencing withdrawal isn't the best approach as these drugs are very strong.  

 

When are you seeing your doctor?  

[MiguelFreeman]

now I don't know when I will see the doctor but it will be very soon 

My mother called asking for the appointment to be sooner than the previous date and the doctor will call back 

I have finally stopped talking about medication to my mother cus she was getting tired of hearing it all the time

you know I was that uncomfortable but I now accepted that I have to shut up and learn to coupe whit thing alone so

 I don't make my family suffer 

I believe the doctor will help me otherwise I just make the liquid myself 

 

Most of what I feel is just of being like drugged and drowse 

makes me wanna sleep all the time 

and because of that I am not even going to the gym and I sleep soo much that my mother has 2 call me to eat otherwise I don't eat ... until I wake up (i will have to force me 2 wake up and stay up )

these drugs are ****  but god sent me here for some reason

for now, I will just take the 10 mg until I go there 

I will not accept new drugs I will only accept the liquid form 

in case he tries to start withdrawing from this drug I will put what he is trying 2 do here

but I am not obligated to take drugs I don't wanna take soo got that working for me 

my mother is taking the same dose of me 10 mg of escitalopram 

but she started on her own ...  she sleeps a lot 

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, MiguelFreeman said:

I will not accept new drugs I will only accept the liquid form 

 

Please be careful about the way you talk with the doctor.  Remember that you need to keep a good relationship with him so that you can continue getting your prescription.  Use words like "I would prefer" not "I want to".  If he suggests a different drug you could say "I have thought about it but I would prefer to stay on the drug I am on" not "NO I want to stay on this drug".

 

I hope you can see the difference in how I have worded these comments.  It is very subtle but if you can talk to him in a way that doesn't make him think that you think you know everything it will make a big difference.  Talk with him calmly and respectfully but be assertive.  You can be assertive without being forceful.  You just need to be careful what words you use.

 

Another way of explaining it to him is instead of saying you want to get off your drug, say I would like to be on lowest dose.

 

5 hours ago, MiguelFreeman said:

in case he tries to start withdrawing from this drug I will put what he is trying 2 do here

 

This is a very good idea.  That way we can offer our opinion.

 

5 hours ago, MiguelFreeman said:

but I am not obligated to take drugs I don't wanna take soo got that working for me 

 

That is a very good mindset to have.  Some people trust their doctor completely and don't think for themselves.

[MiguelFreeman]

ok I will try to be respectful and explain to him that I won a slowly decrease the dosage whit the liquid form until I found ther perfect dose 

While in reality,  I am coming off this drug 

Slowly but steady 

[MiguelFreeman]

I love you all for helping me 

[MiguelFreeman]

hi btw how long shud i wait until i start tapering ?

[ChessieCat]

It's going to depend on how quickly things stabilise.  Keeping daily notes on paper will help you to see improvements/worsenings.  It's important to throw out the calendar and to listen to your body.

 

Keep Notes on Paper

Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Stabilising- What Does That Mean?

Withdrawal Normal Description

 

Once you get the liquid it is best to do a cross over without reducing your dose by taking 3/4 tablet + 1/4 liquid for 3 days, 1/2 tablet + 1/2 liquid for 3 days and 1/4 tablet + 3/4 liquid for 3 days and then take all liquid.

[MiguelFreeman]

Ok now i get it actualy i haver no whitdraw symptoms i AM just sleeping alot And Thats it no

Anxiety some Times  a bit sad becuse i dont know if my doctor Will give me the liquid or not but thats it 

[MiguelFreeman]

anhedonia is awful

i didn't start my taper yet but sleeping all day and anhedonia are **** sorry for the language ... 

need to force my shelf out of ber keep sleeping all day 

but keep on fighting I wish I had more people to talk whit about this hope all of you that are struggling can talk whit me so we could support each other 

anhedonia prob from being on 10 mg 

don't know if its CNS Destabilization I just sleep all the time ^^ and anhedonia

 

Edited September 28, 2017 by ChessieCat
removed obscenties

[MiguelFreeman]

hi I have a question is it possible to get Akathisia from SSRI tempering or staying it for to much time 

I have been on SSRI for over 2 years and this just scares me  and Is it permenent 

 

[baroquep]

Hi Miguel, I've moved your new topic SSRI and Akatisia to your introduction thread. It's better to ask your questions in your introduction thread as more people will see the posts and we like to keep all information specific to you in one place.  Could you please post any new questions here rather than start a new topic?  

 

Regarding your question, I would avoid looking at videos where the history of the person making the video isn't verifiable.  It is certainly tragic that she is dealing with these issues, but you have no idea what drug(s) she was taking, or how she discontinued the drug(s) that resulted in her having the difficulties.  Watching videos like these is just going to upset and worry you and it is not helpful to your peace of mind. 

You are very young and haven't been on these drugs for very long and you have the opportunity, now that you have found Surviving Antidepressants, to get off Lexapro safely if you follow the guidelines recommended here.  The only thing you should be worrying about is tapering off very slowly and carefully by listening to your body before making any changes to your dose.  If you follow the guidelines recommended here you will minimize your withdrawal symptoms and should be able to recover without too much difficulty.  

Many people recover their lives after stopping antidepressants.  I am posting a link to the success stories here for you to read.  It's better for you to read and/or watch videos that will help you to feel positive and hopeful.  

Success Stories - Recovery from Withdrawal   

[MiguelFreeman]

ty now I have to convince my new psychiatrist to let me taper and to give me the liquid version 

and convince my GP to stop insisting on drugs ... 

 

[MiguelFreeman]

Guys i am having trouble Whit my sleeping i didn't start my tapering yet but I am having trouble sleeping at night I literally go to sleep early and wake up on the middle of the night alot and then I am sleepy in the day I am thinking about just trying to stand my ground and start the taper when I get to the doctor and get the liquid or ask him for remeron low dose to sleep while I taper . Advice pls

[ChessieCat]

Sleep problems are very common during withdrawal.  It would be best not to add another drug into the mix.  Adding a new drug will "muddy the waters" which means things will not be clear.  If you experience withdrawal symptoms from the drug you are tapering (we will call it Drug A) and add another (Drug B ) you will not know if you are getting withdrawal symptoms from reducing Drug A, you could get start up and/or side effects or possibly a bad reaction to Drug B.

 

Please see these topics for some non drug ideas:

 

Sleep Hypnosis, Guided Meditations, Calming Videos

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

[MiguelFreeman]

I didn't even start tampering  I am giving time to my body until I go to the doctors 

but my brain stabilized after 1 month max, I can drink coffee and have nicotine whit no trouble 

 

[ChessieCat]

I strongly suggest that you use the Drug Interactions Checker and you will see for yourself that there is a Major interaction between Remeron and Lexapro.

 

You have the opportunity to get yourself off psychiatric drugs safely.  Unfortunately it may be uncomfortable at times but if you taper slowly and carefully hopefully the discomfort will be minimal and short lived.  However, you need to make the decision to not turn to prescription drugs at the first sign of a problem or discomfort and instead find non drug ways to cope.

 

There are many members on this site who have ended up poly-drugged, some of them for many years.  I feel certain that they would tell you the same thing.

[MiguelFreeman]

that's why I came here to ask for advice my idea I just to temper off 

ty for the advice 

[ChessieCat]

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound rude.  But because of what I now know about these drugs and the experiences I have read of the members on this site I feel very strongly about not relying on prescription drugs.  I now understand that pharmaceutical companies are behind it all and it is for profit.  And that the drugs can cause problems.  I've also been on an antidepressant continuously for 25+ years.  About 1 year ago as my dose got lower I started feeling like I did before I started them.  I hadn't realised that for all that time I had been numb.  I'm about to turn 60 and just recently I experienced real excitement for the first time in a very long time.  Last weekend I saw a mother and baby whale tail slapping and breaching and I jumped up and down because I was so excited.  I hope you can understand that what I said in my previous post is because I don't want you to miss out on so much of your life because you believed the lie about psychiatric drugs.  My daughters were about 7 and 9 when I started them so they and I have missed out on a lot because of me not being myself with an antidepressant.

 

You might find these helpful:

 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  We’re Trained To Misinform -The Drugs ARE Dangerous (6 minute video)

Interview:  Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (51 minutes Gwen Olsen - ex pharmaceutical representative)

[MiguelFreeman]

16 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound rude.  But because of what I now know about these drugs and the experiences I have read of the members on this site I feel very strongly about not relying on prescription drugs.  I now understand that pharmaceutical companies are behind it all and it is for profit.  And that the drugs can cause problems.  I've also been on an antidepressant continuously for 25+ years.  About 1 year ago as my dose got lower I started feeling like I did before I started them.  I hadn't realised that for all that time I had been numb.  I'm about to turn 60 and just recently I experienced real excitement for the first time in a very long time.  Last weekend I saw a mother and baby whale tail slapping and breaching and I jumped up and down because I was so excited.  I hope you can understand that what I said in my previous post is because I don't want you to miss out on so much of your life because you believed the lie about psychiatric drugs.  My daughters were about 7 and 9 when I started them so they and I have missed out on a lot because of me not being myself with an antidepressant.

 

You might find these helpful:

 

Video:  Ex-Big Pharma Rep:  We’re Trained To Misinform -The Drugs ARE Dangerous (6 minute video)

Interview:  Confessions of an Rx Drug Pusher (51 minutes Gwen Olsen - ex pharmaceutical representative)

I am getting attached to you because you are here for me to give me advice I did decide to just taper when I get to the doctor and explain to him I won an aka reduce the dosage but slowly and hold at 5 mg for like 2 months and then continue tapering  but I am in a struggle my shelf because am having suicide feelings even dow the are mild they are annoying has **** pardon my french i will get out of this slow and steady and i am staying positive and trying to distract my self despite the struggle what i feel that is strange is that i didn't t even start the taper i tink i am just depressed to have soo much that i have to fight like convincing the doctor and things like that 

[ChessieCat]

You've made a lot of changes in the last year.  I'm at work at the moment so don't have time to read back through your posts but will do so later today.

[MiguelFreeman]

ty but I actually didn't make any changes in the past 2 and half months , I followed the advice to stay at 10 mg and not taper yet until I got stable which I did stabilize after 1 week off the reinstatement and got symptom free after 3 and half weeks  (after a CT from 20 mg Of Escitalopram  that I stayed off for 2 months of pure agony ). they CT was in May of this year and only got the hard symptoms after almost 2 weeks (in June of this year ) and after 2  months of pure Anxiety if not inner akathisia + tingling feelings on the skin + memory problems +Horrible Gi Symptoms (Lost 10 kg in those 2 months of time ) Mind yourself that I was an 85 kg Weightlifter at only 1.71 cm ) currently trying to recover that weight and recovering the Strength I had  fun fact is that I didn't get brain zaps and that was a hard CT 20 mg Escitalopram  and didn't get brain zaps.

Eventually, I did figure that I must go slow and gave time to stabilize and did it fairly quickly at 1 week after reinstatement of 10 mg  and got symptom free after 2.5 weeks now stable for over 2.5 months and  almost 3 months like it was proposed by you I think   

now I just need to go slow after I convince the doctor to give me liquid version (If possible may you help me find the exact brands of liquid escitalopram in Portugal if possible at 10 mg /ml)

my plan is to go slowly down to 5 mg and then hold for a while and then go down further but slow has possible and always listing to my body.

I did get a job that I will start in 1 of December in a motor chop restoring vintage cars 

at the moment the only thing i have is switch sleeping cycle I sleep during the day sometimes and awake at night now I just have to found a way to get to work at 7 a.m after 1 of December  hope the reduction I will make after I get the liquid to make my sleeping go better if you have any advice on how to regulate my sleep tell me 

[ChessieCat]

My comment:

 

6 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

You've made a lot of changes in the last year.

 

was in response to this:

 

8 hours ago, MiguelFreeman said:

but I am in a struggle my shelf because am having suicide feelings even dow the are mild they are annoying

 

Regarding your sleep, it might be a result of all of the changes you have made in the last year, or it could be that being at home you have started going to bed later and then sleeping during the day, or it could be a combination of both.

 

You might also be feeling worse than you did because you are worried about starting a new job.

 

In preparation for having to get up early for your new job, which is great news - congratulations, you could start going to bed a little bit earlier each night and make sure you get up a little bit earlier each day.  You've got about 5 weeks so as an example if you are going to bed at midnight you could start going to bed at 11.30 pm for a week then 11 pm for the next week.  If you aren't going to bed until early in the morning, eg 3 am you could go to bed at 2.30 am for a few nights and than 2 am for a few more.

[MiguelFreeman]

10 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

My comment:

 

 

was in response to this:

 

 

Regarding your sleep, it might be a result of all of the changes you have made in the last year, or it could be that being at home you have started going to bed later and then sleeping during the day, or it could be a combination of both.

 

You might also be feeling worse than you did because you are worried about starting a new job.

 

In preparation for having to get up early for your new job, which is great news - congratulations, you could start going to bed a little bit earlier each night and make sure you get up a little bit earlier each day.  You've got about 5 weeks so as an example if you are going to bed at midnight you could start going to bed at 11.30 pm for a week then 11 pm for the next week.  If you aren't going to bed until early in the morning, eg 3 am you could go to bed at 2.30 am for a few nights and than 2 am for a few more.

Can you help me find the name of the liquid escitalopram at 10mg /ml in Portugal

[ChessieCat]

From https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/21927

 

Cipralex oral drops solution, 20mg/mL near the bottom of the page:  Portugal: Cipralex

 

It is double the strength you asked about but you would take 1/2 the amount.  Or you could add 1ml to a quantity of water and take 1/2 of the mixture one day, refrigerate the remainder until you take the rest the next day.  It is important to measure it the same way every time so you get a consistent dose.

 

To find this information I used google and typed in:  liquid escitalopram at 10mg /ml in Portugal

 

See:  using-an-oral-syringe-and-other-tapering-techniques and Where to get oral syringes

[MiguelFreeman]

Going to start tampering by 10 % decided to make my homemade liquid did it by dissolving 10 mg tablet in 10 ml tap water using a 2.5 ml syringe I am surprised how well it dissolved i bought a urine sample compartment that is watertight  gonna take it the medication by the homemade liquid from now on