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ander454: hi, I'm off Paxil, but think it may get worse for a while


ander454

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Hi,

 

I'll try to keep it somewhat short.  I am 37 male.  I was interested in various nootropics last year (around thanksgiving) and tried what I thought was a small dose of methylene blue (1mg disolved in water).  Some people say this is a huge dose, other medical experts say this is nothing and it shouldn't have done anything.  I've since researched psychiatric experiments using 50mg doses with either no effect or slightly positive.  Anyways, I felt good for a few hours then started feeling panicky.  Life hasn't been the same since.  I had night sweats for about 6 weeks after that small dose.  Went to the ER once, ER doc was familiar with methylene blue and couldn't believe 1mg would do anything, but he was nice and respectful.  Called the ambulance once and yeah they were kind of rude.  I lost 15lbs because the panics seem to correlate with food and I didn't eat much.  After about 3 months of downhill I hit a bottom where my mind/body would simply not allow me to go to work.  I was dizzy and disoriented and felt panicky all the time.  I then went on Paxil.  In my younger college days I was on Paxil for about 9 months that worked well for depression.  I don't recall any side-effects other than a few brain zaps when I quit cold turkey.  So, my psychiatrist decided to put me on Paxil and I don't blame him for it.  Well, it was awful to get on, it seemed the dizziness got more constant and I became emotionally numb and confused who I was.  Had heart burn and all kinds of weird things like icy hot sensations and the like.  Totally disconnected with life, still panic'y but without the adrenal feeling.  I got up to 15mg Paxil and could hardly orgasm.  So, decided to slowly taper.  I got a pill crusher and a mg scale and tapered off in 3months.  It was hell.  I had an excel file that I used and just slowly went at it. Sometimes I tried to go faster on the taper, but I could really feel it.

 

Anyways, my last dose on the taper was about a week ago.  Now I'm feeling the adrenals come back in full force.  I'm actually excited and terrified at the same time.  I feel more like myself and at the same time more like a nervous wreck.  I start off my mornings with 40min of standing meditation, something I started to do during the taper.  I also got back into Tai Chi practice and mindfulness training.  Had a counsler for a while to work on CBT.  I have all the tools, I'm just hoping I can make it through without going crazy.  My biggest fear is that I end up where I started when I went on Paxil.  Or that I have some unknown underlying condition.  Those fears consume me sometimes when I'm in an anxious mood and are hard to get out of.

 

The most difficult part for me now is a feeling that happens in the brain that is hard to describe.  It's like "floaty" feeling in the brain, or a slight pressure, and the mind wants to race at 100mph when I only want to travel at 1mph.  With my mediation practice, it is possible to sit in a quiet spot and observe it and not get carried away by it.  I'm perfectly content zoning out and observing it.  So that works.  But obviously the problem is I can't really do anything else.  As soon as I need to think or communicate, the "floaty" feeling just overwhelms me and distracts.  I get frustrated and anxious at the same time.  The adrenals are now in full effect and so they cause my speech to tremble and get nervous even though I shouldn't be really anxious about anything.  Hands go super cold way before lunch.  Today was awfully anxious feeling in the morning, but now I feel quite good, better than I have in a while.  Way more connected with my family, way more alive.  So, it's weird, am I better or worse?  Its a real bucking bronco at this point in time.  Any advice?  I think I'll cut out coffee in the morning and switch to green tea, but coffee has so many other good effects that I like.  Can I be hopeful that an end to this suffering is in sight?

 

Thanks for reading (-:

 

Started Paxil 10mg: Feb 2017

Increased Paxil to 15mg: Apr 2017

Started Tapering Paxil (linearly): Jul 2017

Finished Tapering Paxil (linearly):  Sep 2017 

Started 25mg Amitriptyline for vestibular migraines/insomnia: Feb 2019

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to ander454: Hi, I'm off Paxil, but think it may get worse for a while
  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi ander454, Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants, I am glad you found the site before going any further.  

 

Before we can give you any specific information, it would be great it you could complete your withdrawal history signature.  This will allow the moderators to view your drug/tapering history at a glance and provides the information necessary to help you.  

 

Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature

 

Many people seem to be able to taper off psychiatric medications in a couple of weeks or even cold-turkey with minor withdrawal symptoms perhaps for a month or so.  Doctors therefore expect everyone can do this.   However, it seems a minority, perhaps a large minority, suffer severe symptoms for much longer.  The reason this site exists is because doctors are unaware of the greater safety of gradual dosage reduction, usually advise tapers that are too fast, do not sufficiently recognize withdrawal syndrome, and do not know what to do if it occurs.  

 

Unfortunately it looks like you have tapered off of Paxil too quickly and likely the reason you are feeling the way you are.  I'm glad to hear that you are practising meditation, Tai Chi and mindfulness training, these skills will help you immensely as you heal.  Oftentimes, when an antidepressant is discontinued abruptly, tapered too quickly or doses are alternated it destabilized the central nervous system (CNS) and leads to what is known as withdrawal syndrome. 

 

What is Withdrawal Syndrome?

 

SA recommends tapering by no more than 10% of your previous dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to the changes in the central nervous system (CNS).  The 10% taper recommendation is a harm reduction approach to going off psychiatric drugs.  We believe this conservative tapering method will cause harm to the fewest number of people.   I am going to attach a few links so that you can familiarize yourself with the recommendations made by Surviving Antidepressants and encourage you to have a look so that you can understand what is happening and why.  

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Tips for Tapering Off Paxil / Paroxetine

 

I am also going to include a link on reinstatement as I want you to be aware that the symptoms that you are experiencing could get progressively worse and the only known method of reducing withdrawal symptoms is a reinstatement of a very small dose of the antidepressant, just enough to alleviate withdrawal symptoms and then a careful taper is restated down the road to discontinue off of the drug safely.    

 

Withdrawal Symptoms - Delayed Onset

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms
What to Expect in Reinstatement (James Heaney article)

 

What is known about reinstatement from my reading and from patient experience as posted on online support sites:

  • According to medical knowledge, reinstatement is the only way to alleviate withdrawal symptoms.
  • Reinstatement is best done immediately upon appearance of withdrawal symptoms. The more time that passes, the less likely it is to work.
  • The length of this window of opportunity varies according to the individual. Sometimes people can reinstate successfully months after quitting. Others cannot.
  • Often a partial dose will relieve withdrawal symptoms. If, for example, you were taking 20mg Paxil and quit rapidly only a few days ago, 5mg or 10mg may be enough. Others find they need a higher dose.
  • Start low to see what you need. You can always increase if necessary. If you've been off the drug for a month or more, many people can find relief from antidepressant withdrawal symptoms by reinstating as little as 1mg-5mg.

I know this is a lot of information to digest, but wanted to give you as much information as I could before seeing your withdrawal history signature so that you can make an informed decision about how you would like to proceed from here.  Please complete your signature when you have a minute as this will allow moderators to provide you with information relevant to your current situation. 

 

 

Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism:  Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg (15 years Pristiq/Effexor)

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg; November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 
May 20, 2017 - reduced to 40.25 (holding for additional month due to late onset of withdrawal symptoms after this taper)
July 17, 2017 - reduced to 38.24
August 15, 2017 - reduced to 37.5 (50% of my original dose)

October 15, 2017 - reduced to 35.6

November 12, 2017 - reduced to 33.8
December 15, 2017 - up-dose to 35.6
December 28, 2017 - up-dose to 37.5

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Thanks for the detailed reply, I really appreciate it.  The total taper for me was 3 months (linear).  I felt about as awful while I was on my 15mg full dose of Paxil as I do now, its just a different awful.  I mean, at some point you gotta get off if its not helping you right?  I only took it this long because I didn't know what else to do.  And it was SOOO hard to get on the drug that I didn't want to waste all that hard work.  But in the end, it never really helped me that much - I just went sort of sideways.

 

My backup plan is to take a break from work and just take some time to relax.  The brain zaps are basically all gone, I just have some lightheadedness and mild dizziness from time to time.  And of course really bad anxiety mostly in the mornings, but we'll see how the next week goes.  I knew this was going to happen and I've taken preparations, both in mental training and the possibility to take time off.  Thanks again for such a great reply, I really appreciate it.

Started Paxil 10mg: Feb 2017

Increased Paxil to 15mg: Apr 2017

Started Tapering Paxil (linearly): Jul 2017

Finished Tapering Paxil (linearly):  Sep 2017 

Started 25mg Amitriptyline for vestibular migraines/insomnia: Feb 2019

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi ander,

 

Put the dates and the doses for Paxil in your signature.  Because we are making suggestions which can affect your health and wellbeing we need to have as much information as possible.  Thank you.  See highlighted below:

 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

  • Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
  • A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
  • Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
  • Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
  • Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
  • Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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Sorry, is it not in the signature?

Started Paxil 10mg: Feb 2017

Increased Paxil to 15mg: Apr 2017

Started Tapering Paxil (linearly): Jul 2017

Finished Tapering Paxil (linearly):  Sep 2017 

Started 25mg Amitriptyline for vestibular migraines/insomnia: Feb 2019

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  • Moderator Emeritus
20 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Put the dates and the doses for Paxil in your signature. 

 

Sorry, I've just noticed that I left out "Please".  Very rude of me.  My apologies.

 

Started Tapering Paxil (linearly): Jul 2017

Finished Tapering Paxil (linearly):  Sep 2017 

 

Instead of the above please list your taper doses and dates (or early/mid/late instead of just the month).

 

The following is more helpful than what you have provided:

 

date  OR  late Jul 2017 - 10mg

date  OR  mid Aug 2017 - 7mg

date  OR  early Sep 2017 - 5mg

date  OR  mid Sep 2017 - stopped

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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I can't list the taper doses, it would literally take 90 lines of the signature.  I had an excel file and calculated exact linear taper.  Each day I poured crushed Paxil powder onto a milligram scale.  The dose was different everyday.  I believe I had sensitivity even to daily changes in doses.  So, I never wanted to do a 10% step in one day.  It was best for me to dose tiny changes each day.

Started Paxil 10mg: Feb 2017

Increased Paxil to 15mg: Apr 2017

Started Tapering Paxil (linearly): Jul 2017

Finished Tapering Paxil (linearly):  Sep 2017 

Started 25mg Amitriptyline for vestibular migraines/insomnia: Feb 2019

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23 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Sorry, I've just noticed that I left out "Please".  Very rude of me.  My apologies.

No worries, I didn't think it was rude at all

Started Paxil 10mg: Feb 2017

Increased Paxil to 15mg: Apr 2017

Started Tapering Paxil (linearly): Jul 2017

Finished Tapering Paxil (linearly):  Sep 2017 

Started 25mg Amitriptyline for vestibular migraines/insomnia: Feb 2019

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Just to clarify, you were on 15mg of Paxil in July 2017 and reduced by a small amount everyday and stop in September 2017.

 

Q:  Did you take any psychiatric drugs prior to Paxil?

Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions. 

  MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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That is correct, reduced small amount everyday.

 

No drugs immediately prior to Paxil.  I was on Paxil for 8 months 20 years ago with no noticeable side effects.  But that is the entire history of my psychiatric drugs.  No recreational drugs other than tobacco/alcohol.

 

Anxiety has gotten a bit worse, but so far I am managing with walks, sleep, propranolol, and methocarbomol.  Was thinking about trying a little gaba to help backfill some serotonin, anyone tried this supplement?

 

Started Paxil 10mg: Feb 2017

Increased Paxil to 15mg: Apr 2017

Started Tapering Paxil (linearly): Jul 2017

Finished Tapering Paxil (linearly):  Sep 2017 

Started 25mg Amitriptyline for vestibular migraines/insomnia: Feb 2019

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I'm open to trying to reinstate the Paxil, like 0.5 or 1mg, but honestly I can already feel a lot of moments where I feel like myself again.  The scary part is I also feel extremely anxious sometimes and panic'y.  Haven't had a true panic attack yet, but it could happen if I'm not careful.  I have designed my life to handle coming off this thing.  My work schedule is flexible and life stressors are at a minimum.  Any suggestions on what I can do?  Anyway to tell whether I'm going to come off it okay?  I mean, are there good milestones like 3 weeks, 6 weeks, etc?

Started Paxil 10mg: Feb 2017

Increased Paxil to 15mg: Apr 2017

Started Tapering Paxil (linearly): Jul 2017

Finished Tapering Paxil (linearly):  Sep 2017 

Started 25mg Amitriptyline for vestibular migraines/insomnia: Feb 2019

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Ander, it can be difficult to determine exactly what a person should do.  Nothing is cut and dry and there are so many variables, that it is impossible to know if one approach might be better than another.  Because you are young and do not have a long term history of antidepressant use, you are a good candidate for just staying the course and letting your symptoms resolve on their own.  But because these drugs affect everyone differently, I think it is important to be aware of delayed withdrawal syndrome (link included above) and the steps you can take if the severity of your symptoms ramps up.  

 

Before reinstating, It would be best to determine whether your current symptoms are manageable, or whether the severity of the anxiety has been getting much worse each time you experience it.  Again, because of the unpredictable nature of antidepressants and how they affect the central nervous system, only you cam make this determination.  

 

Please see the links below for more information and let us know what you decide to do.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by baroquep

Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism:  Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg (15 years Pristiq/Effexor)

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg; November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 
May 20, 2017 - reduced to 40.25 (holding for additional month due to late onset of withdrawal symptoms after this taper)
July 17, 2017 - reduced to 38.24
August 15, 2017 - reduced to 37.5 (50% of my original dose)

October 15, 2017 - reduced to 35.6

November 12, 2017 - reduced to 33.8
December 15, 2017 - up-dose to 35.6
December 28, 2017 - up-dose to 37.5

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Thanks for the reply, I am monitoring my symptoms closely.  Today was much better, anxiety is there but once I focus on work it seems to mostly go away.  I still have dizziness a bit, but its way better than when I was actually on Paxil.  I think I will just try to manage the symptoms for now, but knowing full well that I might have a few stumbles along the way that will feel really scary.  I will keep you updated.  Thanks so much for the help.

Started Paxil 10mg: Feb 2017

Increased Paxil to 15mg: Apr 2017

Started Tapering Paxil (linearly): Jul 2017

Finished Tapering Paxil (linearly):  Sep 2017 

Started 25mg Amitriptyline for vestibular migraines/insomnia: Feb 2019

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Yes, please do let us know how you are doing.  Am glad to hear that you are monitoring your symptoms, It might also be a good idea to keep a daily record of your symptoms so you can follow your progress ... and not to be pessimistic, but also as a way to alert you to anything out of the ordinary that you might need to be concerned about.  I have found that when dealing with antidepressant withdrawal, it's best to be safe rather than sorry.  

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist
Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Current Prescription Drugs for Hypothyroidism:  Synthroid 100mcg / Cytomel 5mcg (15 years Pristiq/Effexor)

Tapering Schedule
September 15, 2016 - switched from Pristiq 50mg to Effexor XR 75mg; November 10, 2016 - reduced to 67.5 Effexor XR
December 9, 2016 - reduced 60.75
January 5, 2017 - reduced 54.67
January 30, 2017 - reduced to 49.0
February 20, 2017 - reduced to 44.0 
May 20, 2017 - reduced to 40.25 (holding for additional month due to late onset of withdrawal symptoms after this taper)
July 17, 2017 - reduced to 38.24
August 15, 2017 - reduced to 37.5 (50% of my original dose)

October 15, 2017 - reduced to 35.6

November 12, 2017 - reduced to 33.8
December 15, 2017 - up-dose to 35.6
December 28, 2017 - up-dose to 37.5

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Hey that is a great checklist, thanks for sharing. 

 

After 3 weeks now off Paxil I think I am starting to stabilize, its been a rough past week and the anxiety is winding down for the most part.  I'm starting to get the whole waves/windows thing though.  It's awful because it feels like its all over for a bit and I feel completely like myself and warm and comfortable and then it just creeps back - I get dizziness and what feels like head pressure.  It's really hard to plan anything or explain to people what is going on, it just comes back without warning and you just have to deal with it.  Drove down the interstate this morning blasting Jimi Hendrix and crying on my way to work.  Why?  Have no idea, just feel emotional I guess.

 

Should I just take some time off and chill?  It's been about 3 weeks since my last dose of Paxil.  I'd prefer to feel awful alone and watch a movie or walk/play music or something rather than stumbling through daily work/life stressors and sitting in traffic.  I am confident I won't fall prey to negative thinking, just do something relaxing instead.  But I don't know how long it will take to recover, so then I feel like I just need to keep going and get used to it.  Else maybe I will develop an anxiety disorder about getting back into regular life.  The decision to take time off or not is always on my mind, but its hard to pull the trigger on it.

 

 

Started Paxil 10mg: Feb 2017

Increased Paxil to 15mg: Apr 2017

Started Tapering Paxil (linearly): Jul 2017

Finished Tapering Paxil (linearly):  Sep 2017 

Started 25mg Amitriptyline for vestibular migraines/insomnia: Feb 2019

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  • 2 weeks later...

I've made it 5 weeks.  I am slowly feeling less anxious and getting better, although I'm getting frustrated that I still have weird "swimming" sensations in the head and dizziness.  Although I'm happy that sometimes the dizziness goes away almost completely (usually the morning its clear for an hour or two).  When I was on Paxil I was always dizzy )-:   I have some vestibular exercises that help a bit, but nothing seems to really help except time.  I guess it just takes a long time.  Perhaps really long time.

 

Anyone out there with dizziness have suggestions on speeding up recovery?  If I exercise the dizziness tends to get worse, but its just really annoying and rarely makes me motion sick or anything.  I wonder if triggering the dizziness should be avoided, or if triggering it mildly is helpful to recover?  To be clear, I don't have a real vertigo or anything, nothing is spinning.  It's just a strange mild "off-balance" sensation as I move around.  It sucks, I hate it, but I'd rather have it than real Vertigo.  And, it has gotten significantly better since I've been off Paxil.

Started Paxil 10mg: Feb 2017

Increased Paxil to 15mg: Apr 2017

Started Tapering Paxil (linearly): Jul 2017

Finished Tapering Paxil (linearly):  Sep 2017 

Started 25mg Amitriptyline for vestibular migraines/insomnia: Feb 2019

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  • 1 month later...

Still pretty difficult.  I feel more like me and sharper, but the swings are really wild.  I get a day of crazy adreneline, then a day of brain fog and difficulty feeling my breath, then a day of depression with some crying, then an okay day (but not normal), repeats over and over.  Mostly i'm getting more of a hopeless feeling and crying though, like this is going to be forever, I have some chronic condition or something.  It always breaks though, its not like I'm really depressed or anything.  I've taken time off work, but honestly it doesn't seem any easier.

 

Keep convincing myself that I have a health problem, my latest theory is vestibular migraine.  Everyday I feel like I'm fighting a panic attack, but it never happens.  Today I thought I had too much oxygen in my blood, like my breathing felt so weird and unproductive, so I tried to hold my breath thinking I could hold it longer or something, but no, I made it about 1:20 minute and then gasped for air.  I'm still me.  I look in the mirror, I'm still me.  I look healthy.  Tons of blood tests done and I am in perfect health, hormones, everything is perfect.  MRI - perfect.  Vestibular system - tests looks perfect but obviously I'm still dizzy.

 

My highlight today was after dinner I started getting all warm and fuzzy and yawning.  Like super comfortable and naturally tired.  This hasn't really happened in a long time.  Earlier on in the day I thought I was dying of some chronic condition.

Started Paxil 10mg: Feb 2017

Increased Paxil to 15mg: Apr 2017

Started Tapering Paxil (linearly): Jul 2017

Finished Tapering Paxil (linearly):  Sep 2017 

Started 25mg Amitriptyline for vestibular migraines/insomnia: Feb 2019

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Hi ander

Did you know that crying is a classic wdl symptom.

Personally if you are able to keep going to work during this then i would. Work can be a great distraction from wdl. How do you feel about saving your leave and continuing to go to work?

Did you know that for many people wdl is  so bad they cannot return to their jobs. Their employment is ripped from them.

Wdl symptoms can be delayed for several months so there may be more to come in the pipeline then again you may be fine in a couple of months.

May i ask why are you taking propranolol?...is it to relieve the wdl symptoms. Did you know that this may have to be tapered too. Please put all the drugs and dosages you are taking in your drug sig as cc asked above. It is unwise to use other drugs to cover wdl symptoms.

Why are you taking methocarbamal? I dont know of this drug but it looks like a muscle relaxant?

Are you doing our own research on chemicals given to you by your doctor before you take these.

 

My personal feeling is don't go back to the paxil or any psychoactive drug ever again.

The wdl will recede in time, as you weren't on for very long compared to most i would hope that you may get your life back earlier than most. But you will have to be patient.

 

4 hours ago, ander454 said:

Keep convincing myself that I have a health problem, my latest theory is vestibular migraine.  Everyday I feel like I'm fighting a panic attack, but it never happens. 

This occurred with me too again these are typical wdl symptoms ....you do not have a health problem what you have is ssri wdl and for some it can go on for many months or in my case for many years.

This protracted wdl experience is not acknowledged by the medical profession as they have bought into a false pharma narrative. But it is real and on this site we all get it.

oh yeah in wdl go easy on the exercise...make it gentle and not too aerobic. For me it triggered a serious panic attack and then i went to the doctor to get an answer and well the rest is history. Please hang out in this site and read about non drug coping approaches to wdl symptoms. It is worth your while to get informed and not blindly believe verbal clueless nonsense from doctors.

Well done on finding sa

You can do this

hang in there

nz11

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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6 hours ago, nz11 said:

Hi ander

Did you know that crying is a classic wdl symptom.

Personally if you are able to keep going to work during this then i would. Work can be a great distraction from wdl. How do you feel about saving your leave and continuing to go to work?

Did you know that for many people wdl is  so bad they cannot return to their jobs. Their employment is ripped from them.

Wdl symptoms can be delayed for several months so there may be more to come in the pipeline then again you may be fine in a couple of months.

May i ask why are you taking propranolol?...is it to relieve the wdl symptoms. Did you know that this may have to be tapered too. Please put all the drugs and dosages you are taking in your drug sig as cc asked above. It is unwise to use other drugs to cover wdl symptoms.

Why are you taking methocarbamal? I dont know of this drug but it looks like a muscle relaxant?

Are you doing our own research on chemicals given to you by your doctor before you take these.

 

My personal feeling is don't go back to the paxil or any psychoactive drug ever again.

The wdl will recede in time, as you weren't on for very long compared to most i would hope that you may get your life back earlier than most. But you will have to be patient.

 

This occurred with me too again these are typical wdl symptoms ....you do not have a health problem what you have is ssri wdl and for some it can go on for many months or in my case for many years.

This protracted wdl experience is not acknowledged by the medical profession as they have bought into a false pharma narrative. But it is real and on this site we all get it.

oh yeah in wdl go easy on the exercise...make it gentle and not too aerobic. For me it triggered a serious panic attack and then i went to the doctor to get an answer and well the rest is history. Please hang out in this site and read about non drug coping approaches to wdl symptoms. It is worth your while to get informed and not blindly believe verbal clueless nonsense from doctors.

Well done on finding sa

You can do this

hang in there

nz11

 

Hey thanks for the advice!  Yeah, I am aware these are common symptoms, this site is very helpful.  I actually went on Paxil because I was in a state where I couldn't go back to work.  In a way it helped me go back to work, but I felt so awful getting on it, staying on it, and getting off it, it kind of put my full recovery sideways.

 

Propranalol is helpful once in a while when my heart races, although I haven't taken it in weeks.  I might take it for an upcoming music performance I have, as it is commonly used for this.  I hardly ever take it, but its a useful tool I think.

 

Methocarbomol is used sometimes for PTSD to help relax.  I've only taken it once (low dose), its not really helpful.  I've taken it before for muscular issues, also not that helpful.

 

I am not planning on going back to Paxil or any drug.

 

My best exercise so far is walking and simple stretches.  Before all this happened I was able to run a mile in 5:00 flat.  Crazy, I can hardly believe I did that now, can't imagine doing any anaerobic stuff for a long time, but hopefully things turn around.

 

As for taking time off work, I think it is helping to some degree.  I go back and forth on whether it was a good decision.  But knowing I have plenty of time to meditate, breathe, eat properly, and sleep is helpful.  Since I can't plan the scary days (including dizziness), it feeds my anxiety knowing that it will happen at work randomly.  At home, the this type of anxiety is non-existant.  In theory, the more you can relax and be kind to yourself, the faster you should recover.  The challenge at home is to stay away from unproductive thinking, but meditation helps bring awareness of these thoughts.

 

Thanks again for the encouragement and help.

Started Paxil 10mg: Feb 2017

Increased Paxil to 15mg: Apr 2017

Started Tapering Paxil (linearly): Jul 2017

Finished Tapering Paxil (linearly):  Sep 2017 

Started 25mg Amitriptyline for vestibular migraines/insomnia: Feb 2019

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I was just reading the submissions to the Welsh govt  - see the thread started by Vanora. And this was stated:

..................................

A quote from BMC Medical Practice, February 2017 provides the most comprehensive list of my withdrawal symptoms that I have seen in one place: “Recent studies on BDS [Bodily Distress Syndrome] suggest that central sensitisation not only results in multiple symptoms; it may also prompt several specific symptom patterns described by arousal and/or exhaustion symptoms. These symptoms cluster in four groups:
 
1) cardiopulmonary/autonomic arousal symptoms (palpitations/heart pounding, precordial discomfort, breathlessness without exertion, hyperventilation, hot or cold sweats, dry m outh),
2) gastrointestinal arousal symptoms (abdominal pains, frequent loose bowel movements, feeling bloated/full of gas/distended, regurgitations, diarrhoea, nausea, burning sensation in chest or epigastrium),
3) musculoskeletal tension symptoms (pains in arms or legs, muscular aches or pains, pains in the joints, feelings of paresis or localized weakness,
backache, pain moving from one place to another, unpleasant numbness or tingling sensations), and
4) genera l symptoms (concentration difficulties, impairment of memory, excessive fatigue, headache, dizziness).” 5 
Here is a link to Signs and Symptoms of withdrawal from antidepressants – Fava et al March 2015. 6
The patient/doctor relationship is hugely damaged by the refusal to believe a patient’s own assessment of the effects of their medication. It is upsetting and inhuman, and potentially leads to further drug interventions, generally of a psychiatric nature.

..................................

I understand your desire to take time off work and find it helpful. The only thing is one can run out of leave very quickly and have nothing in the cupboard should things worsen. I still feel that if you can get through a day of work you should try. Of course if you are nonfunctional with wdl then its understandable however I'm not getting the feeling you are in that position at this time. Not to belittle your current suffering in any way.

 

5 hours ago, ander454 said:

In theory, the more you can relax and be kind to yourself, the faster you should recover

I don't know so much. Healing takes as long as it takes. It can be long lasting and so having our non drug coping tool box available  at all times is useful.

And for me it is taking years. Have you spent time reading the Claires Weeks thread and the AAFT acronym. This would be a good thing to put into practice at your workplace. Heres the thing at some time down the line you will run out of leave then you will have no option but to work and cope with wdl at the same time.

5 hours ago, ander454 said:

its a useful tool I think

Your trust and believe in doctors chemicals I find scary ....besides you have already stated they weren't helpful. So why not just say no to them.

Hope you stabilize soon and your wdl is shortlived.

nz11

Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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  • 6 months later...

Hi, just an update here.  I did take some time off and it was slightly helpful, but still had serious problems (it was definitely not a vacation).

 

I'm still struggling with dizziness.  I've actually been diagnosed with vestibular migraine (VM), which is quite a bit different than a standard migraine.  I've never had much of a "headache",  just feelings of head pressure, floaty, hypersensitivity, and severe anxiety.  That's why I never thought it could be a migraine, but it likely is (there is no official test for it).   And it fits with the initial methylene blue reaction (methylene blue is a powerful MAOI which reacts with tyramine and could cause a serious migraine or worst case a hypertensive crises).

 

Could it be just anxiety or SSRI withdrawl?  Perhaps, but I don't think so.  I had these symptoms for 2 months before Paxil.  I"ve meditated everyday for months on end, took 6 weeks off, jogged everyday for 6months, TaI chi, quit tobacco, got counseling, practiced CBT for months, breathing exercises, tried every supplement, even benzos didn't really do much good, and I've never really had much of anxiety before all this occurred, at least not at this level (100x more anxiety than I've ever experienced previously - everyday for about a year).   It's been a long road, and Paxil was definitely the wrong drug, I actually think the dose was just too high for VM.  Probably 1-2mg would have been fine.  Anyways, I'm basically drug free except for Verapamil for the VM.  Amitriptyline is commonly used, but after my experience with Paxil it is last on my list to try.

 

Days are still difficult, I feel I'm rocking on a boat, and pressure in my head, but at least I know what I got and that gives me some peace of mind.  The symptoms lessen every month as long as I do the right things.  So, I thought I would update here because I think some people who are having severe anxiety and hypersensitivity here might actually have a vestibular migraine.  Remember, you do not have to have a headache to have a vestibular migraine.  And even if you aren't "dizzy", you might describe it as lightheaded or floaty.  You can read about vestibular migraine symptoms here:

http://dizziness-and-balance.com/disorders/central/migraine/mav.html

 

If anyone has questions on Vestibular Migraines, please don't hesitate to message me or go to mvertigo.org.  They are super scary feeling, debilitating, and weird 

 

Thanks for all the help and resources on getting me off Paxil.... uhg that sucked.

 

Erik

Started Paxil 10mg: Feb 2017

Increased Paxil to 15mg: Apr 2017

Started Tapering Paxil (linearly): Jul 2017

Finished Tapering Paxil (linearly):  Sep 2017 

Started 25mg Amitriptyline for vestibular migraines/insomnia: Feb 2019

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Thanks for the update, Erik.  I haven't heard of VM before so I've learned something new!  I hope you continue to get improvement.

2001–2002 paroxetine

2003  citalopram

2004-2008  paroxetine (various failed tapers) 
2008  paroxetine slow taper down to

2016  Aug off paroxetine
2016  citalopram May 20mg  Oct 15mg … slow taper down
2018  citalopram 13 Feb 4.6mg 15 Mar 4.4mg 29 Apr 4.2mg 6 Jul 4.1mg 17 Aug 4.0mg  18 Nov 3.8mg
2019  15 Mar 3.6mg  21 May 3.4mg  26 Dec 3.2mg 

2020  19 Feb 3.0mg 19 Jul 2.9mg 16 Sep 2.8mg 25 Oct 2.7mg 23 Oct 2.6mg 24 Dec 2.5mg

2021   29 Aug 2.4mg   15 Nov 2.3mg

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  • 7 months later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi ander, 

 

How are you doing?💚

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, all for chronic pain. Had severe Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March10=7.25mg ✔️April17=7.0✔️June5=6.75✔️ July14=6.50✔️Aug28=6.25✔️Oct10=6.20 ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️Dec16=5.80 ✔️  2020➡️Jan 21=5.60✔️April2=5.40✔️May29=5.20✔️Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan31=4.60 mg✔️April24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️Aug 28=4.20✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov1=4.10✔️ Nov21= 4.05✔️ Dec13= 4mg✔️  2022➡️Jan8= 3.95 Jan 31=3.90✔️March2=3.85✔️ April4=3.80✔️June16=3.75✔️July26=3.70✔️Sep2=3.65✔️THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, consult a doctor.

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  • ChessieCat changed the title to ander454: hi, I'm off Paxil, but think it may get worse for a while

Hi Carmie, thanks for checking in.  I am doing much better.  Still got some migraines and dizziness, but overall much improved.  It seems a small dose of Topomax has helped a lot to calm the migraines down as well as CBD oil.  That and lifestyle changes / mindfulness (-:

 

The brain heals, albeit slowly....  I hope you are doing well  😁

 

Erik

 

Started Paxil 10mg: Feb 2017

Increased Paxil to 15mg: Apr 2017

Started Tapering Paxil (linearly): Jul 2017

Finished Tapering Paxil (linearly):  Sep 2017 

Started 25mg Amitriptyline for vestibular migraines/insomnia: Feb 2019

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  • 1 month later...
  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Erik, 

 

Glad to hear you’ve been doing okay. Are migraines and dizziness your main symptoms now? In general are you doing okay withdrawal wise?

 

Sending hugs🤗

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, all for chronic pain. Had severe Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March10=7.25mg ✔️April17=7.0✔️June5=6.75✔️ July14=6.50✔️Aug28=6.25✔️Oct10=6.20 ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️Dec16=5.80 ✔️  2020➡️Jan 21=5.60✔️April2=5.40✔️May29=5.20✔️Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan31=4.60 mg✔️April24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️Aug 28=4.20✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov1=4.10✔️ Nov21= 4.05✔️ Dec13= 4mg✔️  2022➡️Jan8= 3.95 Jan 31=3.90✔️March2=3.85✔️ April4=3.80✔️June16=3.75✔️July26=3.70✔️Sep2=3.65✔️THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, consult a doctor.

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Yeah, I've been off Paxil for 1.5 years now.  Most of what I've been suffering is anxiety related to migraines, dizziness and insomnia, not sure if any of my symptoms were actually withdrawl related.  In hindsight I probably blamed Paxil too much for my symptoms.  In fact, I quit Paxil cold turkey another time in life when I was 19 years old and can't remember anything bad happening at all.

 

Yes I continue to suffer some migraines and dizziness and the anxiety related to them.  Recently had to come off Topomax because of insomnia and kidney issues.  Got on low dose Amitriptyline recently to help migraines and sleep and seem to be doing OK. 

 

Thanks for checking in,

 

Erik

Started Paxil 10mg: Feb 2017

Increased Paxil to 15mg: Apr 2017

Started Tapering Paxil (linearly): Jul 2017

Finished Tapering Paxil (linearly):  Sep 2017 

Started 25mg Amitriptyline for vestibular migraines/insomnia: Feb 2019

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  • Moderator Emeritus

Hi Erik, 

 

I’m sorry you get migraines, a friend of mine gets them all the time too. I’ve only ever had two, my eye sight went all weird and I couldn’t stop vomiting. Are you under a lot of stress?

 

Could you please put the Amitriptyline into your drug signature. Thank you. I’m sure you’re aware if you eventually decide to come off it to taper off slowly, no more than 10% a month. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

Been on APs, benzos, ADs and opiates, all for chronic pain. Had severe Akathisia in the past that made me suicidal. Still on Seroquel. 2019:➡️ March10=7.25mg ✔️April17=7.0✔️June5=6.75✔️ July14=6.50✔️Aug28=6.25✔️Oct10=6.20 ✔️ Oct21=6.0✔️Dec16=5.80 ✔️  2020➡️Jan 21=5.60✔️April2=5.40✔️May29=5.20✔️Aug14= 5.0 ✔️Sep29=4.80✔️2021➡️ Jan31=4.60 mg✔️April24=4.40mg✔️Jul17=4.30mg ✔️Aug 28=4.20✔️ Oct 11=4.15✔️Nov1=4.10✔️ Nov21= 4.05✔️ Dec13= 4mg✔️  2022➡️Jan8= 3.95 Jan 31=3.90✔️March2=3.85✔️ April4=3.80✔️June16=3.75✔️July26=3.70✔️Sep2=3.65✔️THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, consult a doctor.

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I've managed stress to the best of my ability.  Daily migraines and dizziness are mostly the cause of my stress/anxiety.  I've made numerous life changes to take things slower in life and overall I do get better.  But NOT without medication, I've tried many times.   I updated my signature to reflect the Amitriptyline.  Thanks!

Started Paxil 10mg: Feb 2017

Increased Paxil to 15mg: Apr 2017

Started Tapering Paxil (linearly): Jul 2017

Finished Tapering Paxil (linearly):  Sep 2017 

Started 25mg Amitriptyline for vestibular migraines/insomnia: Feb 2019

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