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angie007

Withdrawal syndrome vs adrenal fatigue

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angie007

Well i managed to do it again, i was bored in bed with fatigue, and started the laptop up,

and was bored, so started researching Adrenal fatigue, which i personally think has a lot to do

with creating what we all feel in wd.

 

So i guess you know the rest lol, i went over adrenal fatigue,then scrolled down the page and found

Adrenal Insufficency - which basically means that your adrenals are not functioning,

so ok, health anxious as i am now, as i havent felt much anxiety at all , apart from one day since

i ditched paxil, i make the connection,

No anxiety yippeeee = adrenal insufficency,

Oh no!!!!! no im in a right state, I was never like this prior to paxil tapering, what the heck!!!

 

So symptoms Chronic fatigue, muscle aches, lowish appetite (better since the paxil has gone).

weight loss, nausea, body aches, light headed/dizzyness and nervousness, hot/cold chills/headaches.

Ok, rationally these could and probably are down to paxil wd, but when i research and read something

that i can connect the dots to, why am i so irrational and never consider the possibility,that i am just having a

well earned break from the anxiety, which is a blessing, after suffering for yrs with it really bad and

akathesia too = oH-- NO!!!!!!!!!! Adrenal burnout - just showing you all how my mind works right now.

 

Can someone here explain to me why my thinking is skewed this way, and maybe explain WHEN i should be concerned

about my adrenals or symptoms that i SHOULD worry about, just to put my mind at rest.

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stan

what i have read, it is a balance between adrenal and cortisol

i do not know if adrenal work constantly and cannot stop , or if they work low and enough,

i remember a post from SUR who said to not touch adrenal with meds, and let them heal

all this is hormones balance wrong (dysautonomia)

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angie007

Thanks stan, and most devinately am NOT looking for medication,

just some reassurance thaT this is indeed part of wd, and the lack

of paxil basically.

 

So today, here we go again.

after yesterdays issue with adrenals packing up, hence i hadnt felt anxiety like i used to,

im at it again today, woke up aching, got hit yeterday with some fatigue that restricted me

for the day, and felt a little achy and nauseaus on waking with some headpain, anyway,

this escalated into stroke, heart attack, i mean come on, ive never ever been like this in my life

before, can this be a NORMAL part of wd?????

Im starting to worry about all of this now, as its just not a part of who i really was before paxil.

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angie007

Anyone else here develop health anxiety in wd?????

or is it just me?

guess if nothing else, it proves my adrenals are working!!!!

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Altostrata

angie, there are so many organs in the body, and you have a worry for each one of them!

 

Your original post in this topic is to the point, you have health anxiety.

 

Yes, what you are suffering are withdrawal symptoms. You've been off the medication for less than 2 weeks. If it takes 6 months for you to recover, will you be having these worries all day long for every day of the 6 months?

 

You must get yourself in hand, girl! Instead of spending so much time with your laptop, get out and walk in the lovely spring weather. This will help you recover much more than Web surfing.

 

If your adrenals were damaged, you'd be much sicker, you have no idea. Adrenal fatigue is a highly controversial diagnosis. Do not do anything to your adrenals, including adding to their burden with worry.

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Altostrata

In many ways, withdrawal syndrome is the *opposite* of adrenal fatigue.

 

In withdrawal syndrome, the theory is that the brain is sending erratic "fight or flight" signals to the adrenals and the adrenals are obediently responding with adrenaline and cortisol, as they are designed to do.

 

The normal diurnal cortisol cycle may be exaggerated, as we see when people wake up with panic or anxiety due to the morning cortisol spike. However, there may be waves or surges of cortisol on and off throughout the day, felt as waves of what we call neuro-anxiety, neuro-melancholy, or neuro-panic (they seem to be coming from the body instead of the emotions), as well as other symptoms of autonomic upset such as palpitations, dizziness, and brain zaps or tingling.

 

A 4-times a day saliva test for cortisol will not reliably pick up these odd surges, and if it does, the results will be nonsensical, as they may capture a spike. The 24-hour urine test may show an *average* higher level of cortisol -- it's capturing all the urinary cortisol throughout the period.

 

But -- nobody knows what to do with these results, absent a tumor. Unless you want to rule out a tumor or can afford to do the 24-hour cortisol test out of sheer curiosity, it's not worth it to do it. (For 24 hours, you have to pee into a bucket every single time you pee.)

 

Because people with withdrawal syndrome often suffer a harsh insomnia, frequent nighttime waking, or early waking with the morning cortisol increase, they may feel fatigued from lack of sleep. But stimulating the adrenals would be exactly the wrong thing to do in this situation. Their faithful output of cortisol surges is causing the problem, you don't want to encourage them.

 

The adrenals control many essential functions in the body. Unless you really know what you're doing and you *absolutely* have to do it, you don't want to directly interfere with their operations in any way.

 

As opposed to adrenal fatigue, elevated cortisol in withdrawal syndrome keeps you going even though you're dead tired. People also report a surprisingly low incidence of colds and flu.

 

While most people seem to get the "alerting" kind of withdrawal symptoms, a minority seem to become exhausted and sleep a lot. (I've never seen this become prolonged. It might be a protective way for the body to heal itself.)

 

It is possible one might have had chronic fatigue syndrome or an adrenal or endocrine problem *before* withdrawal, and withdrawal syndrome exacerbates it. I guess it is possible that although they are tough little organs, after a very long time, one's adrenals might poop out from the stress of withdrawal. (Among medical doctors, adrenal fatigue is highly debatable.)

 

However, adrenal fatigue does not seem to be central to withdrawal syndrome. Please do not experiment with stimulating your adrenals. Don't take adrenal tonics or licorice. Like the rest of your system, with calm and stability, they will return to normal functioning.

 

If you believe you have adrenal fatigue, there are sites that specialize in discussing and supporting it. You may wish to visit them to see if the symptom patterns people report are a better match for your symptoms than withdrawal syndrome.

 

Since we believe any kind of chemical or herbal messing with the adrenals is not good for most cases of withdrawal syndrome, we won't have much information on them here.

 

If you have non-invasive ways of calming the adrenals, reducing cortisol, and calming the nervous system, please feel free to post them in this forum.

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Barbarannamated

I've experienced less cortisol surges recently and extreme hypersomnia and fatigue ~ I sleep a few hours a day plus a solid 7-8 hrs at night •

It feels like I'm catching up on sleep I missed for years but don't know at what point this is unhealthy

Q: Has anyone gotten to this point ~ I don't have anywhere to be and want to give my body the rest it needs but is there a point of too much sleep

Thanks

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Karma

Barbara,

 

A good book to read is Tired of Being Tired by Jesse Lynn Hanley, M.D. Go ahead and catch up on your sleep - it is the most important thing you can do right now. When I gave myself permission to stop the excessive exercise and to sleep in for a full eight to nine hours over time I began to feel much better and the adrenaline surges stopped. At the same time I dropped all refined sugar, had already started the gluten free diet - I switched to stevia and natural evaporated cane juice.

 

I agree with Alto that we don't want to stress our adrenals further by trying to stimulate them ... it is like whipping an exhausted horse. An alternative treatment is suppressing the adrenals, but you don't want to do that unless there is no other way to recover. Adrenal suppression is not well understood by mainstream doctors either.

 

Karma

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Altostrata

Barb, I wish I could do all that sleeping!

 

This might be a sign of progress for you.

 

Adrenal suppression -- I shudder to think of the consequences if that went wrong.

 

Our "cortisol fighters" don't directly interfere with the adrenals. Best to leave those puppies to recover on their own.

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Karma

Spectio asked about my adrenal symptoms - the symptoms that drove me to treat my adrenals (and I do treat my adrenals I do not treat others as I am not a medical professional). My symptoms included remaining fatigue even after optimal thyroid treatment that had my free T3 at optimal levels, continuing hypothyroid symptoms (chronic low grade depression) with a high Free T3, inability to handle stress and feeling better after 6 PM - I also had difficulty falling asleep at night and difficulty waking refreshed - I also started to have difficulty recovering after moderate exercise.

 

Treating my adrenals allowed me to completely banish fatigue and it also helped with the sleep/wake pattern. I do, however, need to wean off of the treatment I am taking for adrenals which gets more dicey when combined with AD and Benzo withdrawal - so not necessarily recommending it - just sharing my experience.

 

If you would like more guidance on this topic I recommend the following Yahoo group - http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ - but note that they take a one week break once a month because the moderators are also patients and they need the break from the stress of the thousands of patients who seek their guidance. They are currently on break from December 31 for a week.

 

More information here: http://featherstone.bravehost.com/thyroid/peatfieldadrenal.html

and we leverage other knowledgeable doctors such as Dr. John Lowe: http://www.drlowe.com/

 

Feel free to PM me with specific questions - again, this is my journey and it is working for me, but I am not necessarily advocating it for others - my journey started with healing from Celiac Disease, Hashimoto's thyroiditis, Yeast Overgrowth Syndrome and Adrenal Fatigue - weaning off of antidepressants and benzos has started because I finally felt healthy and felt that I no longer needed the drugs because I have dealt with the original underlying conditions.

 

Karma

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poodlebell

Hi alto

 

really good read on the adrenals and w/d symptoms

 

I have had the saliva adrenal test a couple of years ago and this came up in fatigue, probably in exhaustion by now.

 

I phoned the Linden centre for the free session to discuss what is wrong with me, if its anxiety.

 

I explained about the seroxat, coming off c/t and the symptoms that I still have and about the eating and changing anything gives me another w/d. also that I had gone to the Priory, detox centre, for help coming off seroxat and when I did not start to get better they said that I am addicted to everything.

 

At first Fiona said that this was anxiety, anxiety from the drug and then fear of eating etc was causing anxiety and my symptoms.

 

We then talked more and I said I had been to a p.doc and he said that I had more than anxiety and he was sending me to a neurologist and he told me I have migraines and gave me pills for fits, which I would not take.

 

She asked what my doctor says and I told her he says I have a sensititive nervous system and wants me to go back on seroxat, but I wont do that so he said there is nothing more he can do for me.

 

I told her about the adrenal test too.

 

She said that she does not think that I have just anxiety, I have symptoms of it but this is not all and she advises me to seek a second opinion from another doctor.

 

I know that I wont get anywhere with another doctor, as have tried other doctors in the surgery and not got anywhere.

 

I was very surprised at the honesty, she did not try to sell me the programme, said it was not for me.

 

I do have the programme which I got from someone else and have been doing the relaxation, but if she had said it would help me I would have bought the programme for the being able to ring counsellors for a year for advice.

 

But it is not to be.

 

 

poodlebell

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Nikki

Barb and Alto you both know alot in this area. I don't.

 

How is it possible for someone (like me)to produce so much Adrenaline/Cortisol? For me it is a super charged dump or bangs, like it is an open faucet that I can't turn off.

 

Right now I can't wrap my head around this being an emotional thing. Yes, there is that component, but I really perceive this to be a physical issue. When it happens, it causes that fear which brings on more and more dumps.

 

My second question is 'how can I/we stop the dumps?'

 

I have a friend in the UK who takes Lofepramine (not available in the US). It was the only thing that worked. It is a relative of Desipramine/Imipramine family.

 

Can this cause Adrenal Burnout (fatigue)?

 

Is there something other than AD's that can lower the production?????

 

Nikki

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Barbarannamated

Nikki,

 

This is very new to me also. My case is very rare and the result of genetic factors compounded by years of biopsychosocial stresses including continual psychotropics and opiates for a neck injury over 20 years. It just happened to come to light in the last year, concurrent with withdrawal.

 

This thread by Alto is excellent in differentiating adrenal fatigue from withdrawal.

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1591-withdrawal-syndrome-vs-adrenal-fatigue/page__fromsearch__1

 

There are other threads about alleviating cortisol dumps. The blackout curtains worked almost immediately for me.

 

As stated in the thread, I would be very cautious about doing anything to adrenals without a thorough workup. Adrenal exhaustion / Addison's is a rare disorder.

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Altostrata

Nikki, your adrenals are "slave" organs, taking orders via signals from your brain. Those signals are influenced by the drug and adverse effects of the drug.

 

While your adrenals are producing so many activating hormones, they're not in the least bit exhausted. They don't run out of hormones. They're very resilient.

 

Normally, your body needs cortisol and adrenaline to run properly. The problem with these adverse effects is that your adrenals are making too much of these hormones at the wrong times.

 

This anxiety hormone production is not related to your emotions, we sometimes call it "neuro-anxiety" because it comes from spontaneous activity in your nervous system.

 

True standalone adrenal exhaustion -- without other disease -- is controversial and probably pretty rare.

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Nikki

Slave Organs...wow that is interesting and informative.

 

I didn't know the difference between adrenal exhaustion or burn out from the exhaustion that comes after these dumps. I thought the exhaustion after adrenaline dumps was the adrenals running out of steam.

 

I see now, they don't.

 

Neuor-emotions makes sense to me.

 

Thank you guys.

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alexjuice

....

Right now I can't wrap my head around this being an emotional thing. Yes, there is that component, but I really perceive this to be a physical issue. When it happens, it causes that fear which brings on more and more dumps.

 

My second question is 'how can I/we stop the dumps?'

....

 

I experience mass anxiety surges independent of my conscious thought -- like light can cause it, for instance. Usually though there is some stressing stimulus. I may see violence on TV or have worrisome thoughts. The doorbell might right. In the past, these would be non-events but now these small stimuli produce disproportionate stress response. Days are full of 'minor' stimuli so, if I'm overreacting, the physical bombardment never ends which isn't good for me.

 

Your second question is more difficult. There are medications which can numb you down but they present their own risks. I'd think a few boxes of fentanyl lollies would take the edge off, but that's not a real-world solution.

 

In an ideal world, according to just me and noone else, I'd follow a basic protocol.

 

1. Try to eat soon after waking, some protein included

 

2. Walk outside. Try different exercises outside. Start slow, Build up.

 

3. Rule out nutrtional deficiencies. I've heard good things about this lab which is covered by most insurance, though have no personal experience with it. Also, most doctors have no expertise in nutrition. Unfortunately, nutrionists give a lot bad advice. Thats why I'd want some data. The main thing is eat healthily.

 

(I add this one because I have eaten very oddly (on meds) and sporadically and unusually (since getting off) and learned the value here. I personally do not eat sugar, grains, carby foods from restaurants or foods pre-packaged in a box. I eat veggies 75% sauteed in appropriate fat, 25% steemed. If I digested better I'd eat 25+% of veggies raw but with olive oil dressing. I eat organic beef, poultry, fish and lamb. Homemade probiotic and supplements capsules. I eat homemade chicken broth. I like the calming teas, particularly German chamomile. I don't drink alcohol or drink caffeine (green tea every great while). I do not take laxatives but try to move by bowels everday.

 

4. Try to get to sleep before 10pm, at least in bed.

 

5. Yoga, acupuncture, therapy. I am a firm believer in CBT. Talk to an academic in the field if possible. If you have a major university around you, check their faculty, they can help. Most professors answer emails. Not everyone seems not to like CBT and many prefer another modality (DBT, 1-on-1 process therapy w/ a psychologist)... Find what works for you. But, if given reasonable chance, a method shows no benefit... try something else.

 

6. Interrupt fear spirals. Eat, move around, call a friend, do something with your hands, sing a song, pray to God (or whoever), help another person (like come on here and offer support in another thread)

 

7. Believe you can take control and believe that your interventions are going to work. You can placebo-effect yourself to a degree.

 

None of the above is advice. These are some of what I would do if time, energy, money and the stars-aligning allowed me to. Maybe some of these things will also benefit others, like yourself.

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Barbarannamated

"Placebo-effect yourself" LOL! Excellent, Alex!

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Nikki

Alex the protocol or having a healthy life-style really does mean alot.

 

I was always exercising. I haven't really done that since August 2011 and I feel it.

 

Things I can change.....exercising and avoiding sugar altogether. Not to make the commitment ;)

 

As for my recent bout with Adrenaline Dumps ~ it was a chemical issue. Surges like that are not from negative thinking. It was crazy for a body to have surges like that.

 

That put me over the edge. I never want to experience that again.

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Nadia

Great advice, Alex!

 

I feel the same about it not being emotional, though it is of course affected by emotions. This is really hard for people not going through this to understand. How you can wake in the middle of the night with your heart pounding and start rote-obsessing about an insignificant detail (like a song or sensation or memory or a to do item on your list).

 

At first I would "let" those cortisol/adrenaline surges mess with my thinking. Now I feel like I have a lot more control, as long as I'm awake. I often feel like someone shot me up with cocaine or amphetamines, but am able to keep it as a "physical" feeling. It is goddamned uncomfortable. Sometimes it's so strong I have no control, but with time it has improved.

 

Also, the other day I had that feeling, and was successful in not having it attach to any particular emotion or thought, but it was still so uncomfortable. I then thought "this is uncomfortable" and somehow sat with it and accepted it and it collapsed on itself! It was a very zen moment. The kind of thing you're always told to do... accept the feeling, don't reject it, let it be, let it go. I try that all the time, but never had it disappear like that. It was amazing!!! The thing is, it involves not trying, in a way. And you can't be accepting it in hopes of it going away, it has to be a really genuine acceptance. For me it happened without premeditation... kind of like the first time you're able to balance on a bike and it somehow just happens.

 

Also, it seems impossible to do if you're asleep. I find that is the symptom that stays around the longest... early waking and anxiety, and the only thing to do is get out of bed. It also seems to attack in waves of a few seconds or maybe minutes (time seems to go a lot slower when it is happening).

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Petunia

Similar topics merged.

 

A couple of days ago I stumbled onto some information about 'adrenal fatigue' and started reading.  Of course, much of it sounded familiar and before long I was convinced this is what I'm suffering from, I just don't seem to be getting better as fast as others and some symptoms are just as bad as they were in the beginning.

 

But many of the recommended treatments for adrenal fatigue have proved harmful for people in withdrawal and even when they do work, (for genuine adrenal fatigue)  it seems that it still takes months to years to recover fully.

 

But after checking here on SA,

 

 

As opposed to adrenal fatigue, elevated cortisol in withdrawal syndrome keeps you going even though you're dead tired. People also report a surprisingly low incidence of colds and flu.

While most people seem to get the "alerting" kind of withdrawal symptoms, a minority seem to become exhausted and sleep a lot. (I've never seen this become prolonged. It might be a protective way for the body to heal itself.)

It is possible one might have had chronic fatigue syndrome or an adrenal or endocrine problem *before* withdrawal, and withdrawal syndrome exacerbates it. I guess it is possible that although they are tough little organs, after a very long time, one's adrenals might poop out from the stress of withdrawal. (Among medical doctors, adrenal fatigue is highly debatable.)

However, adrenal fatigue does not seem to be central to withdrawal syndrome. Please do not experiment with stimulating your adrenals. Don't take adrenal tonics or licorice. Like the rest of your system, with calm and stability, they will return to normal functioning.
 

 

... I just got saved from buying another supplement which may have made me worse.

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Wildflower0214

Similar topics merged.

 

A couple of days ago I stumbled onto some information about 'adrenal fatigue' and started reading. Of course, much of it sounded familiar and before long I was convinced this is what I'm suffering from, I just don't seem to be getting better as fast as others and some symptoms are just as bad as they were in the beginning.

 

But many of the recommended treatments for adrenal fatigue have proved harmful for people in withdrawal and even when they do work, (for genuine adrenal fatigue) it seems that it still takes months to years to recover fully.

 

But after checking here on SA,

 

 

 

As opposed to adrenal fatigue, elevated cortisol in withdrawal syndrome keeps you going even though you're dead tired. People also report a surprisingly low incidence of colds and flu.

 

While most people seem to get the "alerting" kind of withdrawal symptoms, a minority seem to become exhausted and sleep a lot. (I've never seen this become prolonged. It might be a protective way for the body to heal itself.)

 

It is possible one might have had chronic fatigue syndrome or an adrenal or endocrine problem *before* withdrawal, and withdrawal syndrome exacerbates it. I guess it is possible that although they are tough little organs, after a very long time, one's adrenals might poop out from the stress of withdrawal. (Among medical doctors, adrenal fatigue is highly debatable.)

 

However, adrenal fatigue does not seem to be central to withdrawal syndrome. Please do not experiment with stimulating your adrenals. Don't take adrenal tonics or licorice. Like the rest of your system, with calm and stability, they will return to normal functioning.

 

... I just got saved from buying another supplement which may have made me worse.
Petu,

 

The adrenal fatigue issue is kind of a non issue in WD, so what if we have it? We can't take anything to fix it now. It will make us worse. I think this is another case of us trying to find a solution to something that doesn't have one. We just hve to wait. I have to learn that over and over everyday.

 

I have spoken to you about feeling like I'm worse off than others before, and you were very kind to repond to me in an hour of panic. Both of us, and others came off drugs so fast. So, we feel we are not recovering as fast as others. We aren't. Because the damage is greater. I've come to realize WD is WD, but comparing myself to someone who tapers over months is like apples and oranges. Both fruit. Not the same.

 

It was disappointing to realize this, but it has been freeing because, I now realize my battle is not the same as theirs. So, I can be real about how I feel instead of feeling like I'm not coping well.

 

I know you've had a rough time lately, but I know you will come through. :)

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Petunia
The adrenal fatigue issue is kind of a non issue in WD, so what if we have it? We can't take anything to fix it now. It will make us worse. I think this is another case of us trying to find a solution to something that doesn't have one. We just hve to wait. I have to learn that over and over everyday.

 

 

Yes, this is what I realized after feeling some hope for a little while, that there may be something I could do to speed up this process, but there probably isn't.

 

I'm trying something which I learned from one of the AF sites, but I've also read it here too.  I've been trying to keep my blood sugar levels more stable through the day and night by eating a small amount of protein every 3 - 4 hours.  Its been interesting.  When I've woken up in the night, at 1:30 and 4:30, I've gone into the kitchen and eaten a small piece of cooked chicken.  I've also been using small amounts of nuts and egg.

 

The adreneline surges have stopped since I've been doing this, but unfortunately, hot flashes and sweating have increased, so I don't know if what I'm doing is helping or not.  It doesn't seem right to me to be eating so often, but my mood has been slightly better and in between the hot flashes, I've felt more physically relaxed.

 

Thanks JDM :)  especially for your reminder about the apples and oranges distinction between proper tapering people and protracted withdrawal people.  I also have to keep learning things over and over every day.

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Wildflower0214

 

The adrenal fatigue issue is kind of a non issue in WD, so what if we have it? We can't take anything to fix it now. It will make us worse. I think this is another case of us trying to find a solution to something that doesn't have one. We just have to wait. I have to learn that over and over everyday.

 

Yes, this is what I realized after feeling some hope for a little while, that there may be something I could do to speed up this process, but there probably isn't.

 

I'm trying something which I learned from one of the AF sites, but I've also read it here too. I've been trying to keep my blood sugar levels more stable through the day and night by eating a small amount of protein every 3 - 4 hours. Its been interesting. When I've woken up in the night, at 1:30 and 4:30, I've gone into the kitchen and eaten a small piece of cooked chicken. I've also been using small amounts of nuts and egg.

 

The adreneline surges have stopped since I've been doing this, but unfortunately, hot flashes and sweating have increased, so I don't know if what I'm doing is helping or not. It doesn't seem right to me to be eating so often, but my mood has been slightly better and in between the hot flashes, I've felt more physically relaxed.

 

Thanks JDM :) especially for your reminder about the apples and oranges distinction between proper tapering people and protracted withdrawal people. I also have to keep learning things over and over every day.

Well, maybe give it some time and see how it goes. :) I think adrenal fatigue is def at play in most of us. So, if it can be helped with timing of meals, that seems harmless.

 

I actually started a thread in symptoms in Self-Care for people specifically that have come off too fast or CT. I think that we need a place just to just be honest. I think just like we forget ourselves that our situation is different, I feel that other people also forget when they try to help encourage us. They forget we didn't hve the taper they did, and we are deinh with a different experience. I think, if nothing but for validation, we need one place that is devoted to this distinct struggle.

 

Hope you are well.

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bromor

Just wondering if anyone else is dealing with both issues at the same time? I am & would like to see what has helped others.

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Fresh

Hi bromor , I thought this may be helpful to read:

 

Adrenal fatigue and psychiatric drug withdrawal — by Alto Strata

_______________________________________________

In many ways, withdrawal syndrome is the opposite of adrenal fatigue.

 

In withdrawal syndrome, the theory is that the brain is sending erratic “fight or flight” signals to the adrenals and the adrenals are obediently responding with adrenaline and cortisol, as they are designed to do.

adrenal-system-e1325269913361.jpg?w=300&The normal diurnal cortisol cycle may be exaggerated, as we see when people wake up with panic or anxiety due to the morning cortisol spike.

However, there may be waves or surges of cortisol on and off throughout the day, felt as waves of what we call neuro-anxiety, neuro-melancholy, or neuro-panic (they seem to be coming from the body instead of the emotions), as well as other symptoms of autonomic upset such as palpitations, dizziness, and brain zaps or tingling.

 

A 4-times a day saliva test for cortisol will not reliably pick up these odd surges, and if it does, the results will be nonsensical, as they may capture a spike. The 24-hour urine test may show an *average* higher level of cortisol — it’s capturing all the urinary cortisol throughout the period.

 

But — nobody knows what to do with these results, absent a tumor. Unless you want to rule out a tumor or can afford to do the 24-hour cortisol test out of sheer curiosity, it’s not worth it to do it. (For 24 hours, you have to pee into a bucket every single time you pee.)

Because people with withdrawal syndrome often suffer a harsh insomnia, frequent nighttime waking, or early waking with the morning cortisol increase, they may feel fatigued from lack of sleep. But stimulating the adrenals would be exactly the wrong thing to do in this situation. Their faithful output of cortisol surges is causing the problem, you don’t want to encourage them.

 

The adrenals control many essential functions in the body. Unless you really know what you’re doing and you absolutely have to do it, you don’t want to directly interfere with their operations in any way.

 

As opposed to adrenal fatigue, elevated cortisol in withdrawal syndrome keeps you going even though you’re dead tired. People also report a surprising low incidence of colds and flu.

 

While most people seem to get the “alerting” kind of withdrawal symptoms, a minority seem to become exhausted and sleep a lot. (I’ve never seen this become prolonged. It might be a protective way for the body to heal itself.)

It is possible one might have had chronic fatigue syndrome or an adrenal or endocrine problem *before* withdrawal, and withdrawal syndrome exacerbates it. I guess it is possible that although they are tough little organs, after a very long time, one’s adrenals might poop out from the stress of withdrawal. (Among medical doctors, adrenal fatigue is highly debatable.)

 

However, adrenal fatigue does not seem to be central to withdrawal syndrome. 

 

Please do not experiment with stimulating your adrenals. Don’t take adrenal tonics or licorice. Like the rest of your system, with calm and stability, they will return to normal functioning.

 

If you believe you have adrenal fatigue, there are sites that specialize in discussing and supporting it. You may wish to visit them to see if the symptom patterns people report are a better match for your symptoms than withdrawal syndrome.

 

Since we believe any kind of chemical or herbal messing with the adrenals is not good for most cases of withdrawal syndrome, we won’t have much information on them here.

If you have non-invasive ways of calming the adrenals, reducing cortisol, and calming the nervous system, please feel free to post them in this forum.  

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bromor

Just a side note ~ before I knew I was in withdrawal, I was tested for adrenal fatigue. I was given adrenal glandulars which promptly gave me panic attacks. I am being treated now for adrenal fatigue but in a way that is supporting and healing ~ no glandulars at all. I know most don't believe in adrenal fatigue. I'm not here to argue that. My thought is I was in major adrenal fatigue and instead of helping me to heal I was given the band aid of AD. Anyway, thanks for responding. Appreciate it.

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Christian

Hi Bromor,

I just went down this path with my Dr and an Endocrinologist. I had some tests done right after quitting Lexapro for some other issues and they found high ACTH and high cortisol. I did the 24 hour urine test and midnight one. Then they checked all my hormones and told me what I've already learned through this site and research. It's the stress from the WD. It's causing the insomnia too. I'm not saying that's the case with you at all. Just found out yesterday and thought I would share. I hope you are well otherwise.

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Mort81

Bromor I definitely am aswell.

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bromor

I read over the existing forum on adrenal fatigue & WD. My thought is that you can support your body & adrenals while going through WD. Like I mentioned above, I don't take adrenal glandulars ;those things are dangerous to someone with a sensitive CNS). But I support with L theanine, eating good protein, mag, fish oil, whole food vit c, turmeric ~ the very things that are recommended anyway.

 

Anyway, I know that since there is already a topic, I won't be posting on this one any more and will direct any other questions or comments to the older one ????

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Altostrata

merged similar topics.

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mary2

Hi altostrata. I was diagnosed with secondary hypo adrenalism and take Cortisone every day. After a lot of stress I got this disease 10 years ago and I was put on anti depressives to make me sleep. I wonder if this secondary hypoadrenalisln is reversable?? Now that I am no longer stressed . I fear not.

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Christian

Hello,

I was curious if anyone had the saliva test (for cortisol and DHEA). I ordered mine through True Health Labs. The results were what I thought. Very low cortisol in the AM and low in the afternoon. Normal at night. DHEA was normal. According to online articles on the subject of Adrenal Fatigue, I'm in Stage 5 of 7. 7 being almost death. Stage 5 says patients are almost bedridden. Yup, I can confirm that!

 

How many of you have taken the test and what were your results?

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BobtheBoulder

Adrenal insufficiency and "Adrenal Fatigue" are two very different things.

 

Adrenal insufficiency (also known as Addison's Disease) is a rare endo disorder that has to be treated with life-long replacement steroids. It can be managed but if unmanaged, can lead to a fatal event known as an Addisonian Crisis. It is a condition that is so serious that it requires the wearing of a Medic Alert bracelet.

 

"Adrenal Fatigue" is a controversial (read: unsubstantiated) diagnosis that is given by alternative therapists and it is not recognised by the medical world. 

 

Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional. Just someone who is being tested for Addison's Disease next week and has done an awful lot of reading over the last week. 

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DizzyGirl

I admit that I bought some strange homepathic supplements ( German brand name cytozyme AD) for adrenal fatigue back in the day when I was still in wd and none of it worked.

 

I am pretty sure it is just better to not drink coffee and coffein in general and to sleep long.

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NoMoreADs

Well i managed to do it again, i was bored in bed with fatigue, and started the laptop up, and was bored, so started researching Adrenal fatigue, which i personally think has a lot to do with creating what we all feel in wd. So i guess you know the rest lol, i went over adrenal fatigue,then scrolled down the page and found Adrenal Insufficency - which basically means that your adrenals are not functioning, so ok, health anxious as i am now, as i havent felt much anxiety at all , apart from one day since i ditched paxil, i make the connection, No anxiety yippeeee = adrenal insufficency, Oh no!!!!! no im in a right state, I was never like this prior to paxil tapering, what the heck!!! So symptoms Chronic fatigue, muscle aches, lowish appetite (better since the paxil has gone). weight loss, nausea, body aches, light headed/dizzyness and nervousness, hot/cold chills/headaches. Ok, rationally these could and probably are down to paxil wd, but when i research and read something that i can connect the dots to, why am i so irrational and never consider the possibility,that i am just having a well earned break from the anxiety, which is a blessing, after suffering for yrs with it really bad and akathesia too = oH-- NO!!!!!!!!!! Adrenal burnout - just showing you all how my mind works right now. Can someone here explain to me why my thinking is skewed this way, and maybe explain WHEN i should be concerned about my adrenals or symptoms that i SHOULD worry about, just to put my mind at rest.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you are suffering. Unfortunately, adrenal fatigue is a fake condition that holistic doctors invented so that they can sell you treatments for it. No legitimate doctor will acknowledge that this condition exists at all. There are very rare and real conditions that can effect your adrenals, but the conditions you mentioned aren't real. If I had to guess, I'm assume that you are sleep deprived as a result of withdrawal and that is what is causing you to feel the way that you do.

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