Thyroid symptoms: hypothyroid, Hashimoto's

[bubbles]

12 hours ago, Kittygiggles said:

Certainly, thyroid disease can cause psychological symptoms. This can't account for cases where the mental disorder precedes the thyroid disease and SSRI treatment. There is limited evidence from animal trials demonstrating that fluoxetine interferes with the thyroid-pituitary axis. It is hard to investigate whether SSRIs could be a possible trigger of Hashimoto's (or other autoimmune conditions) in humans but it is likely a fruitful endeavor. This is because SSRIs are very destructive so by some direct or indirect mechanism, it seems plausible that they would trigger an autoimmune response in some people.

 

I was probably a bit abbreviated in my response! I'm not saying there's no connection between SSRIs and hypo! It may be the case. I'm just suspicious, as I said, that a lot of it is effect not cause. I agree, I'd like to see more research.

 

Given my own experiences, I think that diagnosis of thyroid disease is imperfect, and that maybe some of us are diagnosed later than one might hope.

 

I guess I'm wondering - given how "slow" thyroid disease can be, maybe some people are in the early stages of thyroid disease when they have psychological symptoms and then eventually the TSH is elevated, but by then they've already been on an SSRI.

[Karma]

Blondiee

 

Undesirable symptoms when starting or adjusting thyroid usually means there is another problem like insufficient iron or an adrenal problem.  If you have a Reverse T3 problem increasing Armour will result in anxiety and irritability.  I lived this in 2018.

 

I always recommend only making one change at a time so you can determine whether the change was beneficial or detrimental. If increasing your thyroid med caused those symptoms you might want to back it off and see if you feel better.  Other than that please ensure your iron is optimal and that you have investigated adrenal stability.

 

If you are stable with your reduction from antidepressants a thyroid med change should not result in undesirable symptoms.  However, if you aren't in a stable place reducing your antidepressant my experience has been that any change can throw the system off. 

 

Love and light,

Karma

 

 

[Blondiee1915]

Hi Karma,

 

thank you you so much for your input.  How did you resolve your issues?  Was it iron or cortisol or both? 

 

I do have low cortisol throughout the day and I have been working on it for the past two years with little improvement.  I have tried various adrenal complexes and then this summer I started adrenal cortex.  My functional MD said my cortisol is low but not too bad and gave me 5 mg of hydrocortisone to try.  I tried it for two days but became emotional and was crying for no reason so I stopped it.  I am still experiencing fatigue on a daily basis and it is one of my biggest symptoms.  

 

My iron is optimal but my ferritin is pretty low. And I don’t know how to increase it to be honest.  I have tried various B12 complexes as I was told optimal iron yet low ferritin can be a methylation problem. My MD told me to continue to take iron bc of low ferritin but I have been reading how it can be toxic bc my iron saturation is at max so I am not sure what to do.  

 

The good thing is that armour thyroid brought my reverse T3 from 19 to 13 which is great,  however my  FT3 and  FT4 remain unchanged.  

 

If if you have any advice I would really appreciate it ❤️ 

 

B 

[Marsha]

One thing I found was that I felt better taking adeno b12 and avoiding the methyl b12. Also I quit stressing about my thyroid labs and realized my high rt3 was from too much stress including stressing about my hashimotos. My irons and cortisol are fine. I feel much better now and will check my rt3, ft3, ft4, tgab, tpo and rt3/ft3 ratio again soon.  I did have to flush out the rt3 but we are individuals so checking and optimizing all the idiosyncratic facets of hashimotos as I can without becoming consumed by chasing it by the tail and never catching up has worked wonders in managing it. Just my thoughts and experiences. 

[Blondiee1915]

Hi @Marsha,  thank you for sharing.  My Reverse T3 went down from 19 to 13 after starting armour.  I have heard that about methyl B vitamins I did try adeno as well.  I do have MTFHR mutation and I am trying to figure out which B12 works best bc I pretty much feel the same on adeno and methyl yet my ferritin is not going up yet iron levels are optimal.  

 

I agree that stress plays plays an important role in all this for sure.  I am becoming hypochondriac with everything now thyroid, iron and cortisol and WD on top.  I am getting bad anxiety as well not sure if it is the thyroid meds.  Will have labs done in a month 

[Marsha]

I have one MTHFR that supposedly makes me predisposed to being anxious, not handling stress and etc... What I learned was that we do not have to let our genetics control us. Our genetics play a much smaller role in determining our propensity to develop, for example, autoimmune diseases. Many of us struggle at one time or another or even more often with anxieties regarding our health. Getting out of the sympathetic and learning and practicing tools to keep us in the parasympathetic can do much to alleviate the resulting stresses on our autonomic nervous system. Anyway, that's what's been the case for me and especially working with a physician or two who have been like minded. 

[ChessieCat]

16 minutes ago, newtonsmom2000 said:

Hi Alto, this will have to be quick, but I wanted to answer your question.

I kept telling my doctor there was something wrong with my thyroid medication.  I was using ERFA, the Canadian form of NDT.  I finally learned to ask for the correct tests .  I was very concerned when my revT3 levels were very high for me.  I happened to be a part of a forum on Facebook that started a sub group for people with thyroid problems.  I met a very knowledgeable woman who looked at my labs.  In the middle of that, the doctor (a functional/integrative MD) refused to address my medication issues or listen to me.  My knowledgeable friend (I checked out everything she was telling me) urged me to get some T3 added to my current meds.  The doctor refused.  My friend suggested I try lowering my current dose for a short period- days to a few weeks, to see if I felt any differently.

 

I made a minor decrease and all I can say is I felt like I had awakened from the dead.  That was enough indication I needed to find a new doctor and take action!  I took a chance again and reduced my dosage further.  Again, not as big a change but I felt remarkably better!  My friend suggested I just stop my NDT for a maybe up to 3 weeks to allow the revT3 to clear.  I was terrified at the thought.  I found a doctor that was willing to prescribe 5 mcg T3.  I started taking them.  Eventually, I felt comfortable enough to stop the NDT and have never gone back.  The best way I can think to describe how this felt was this: I felt like I was in a cave, in total darkness, a beam of light breaks through and then suddenly I am standing in the sunlight and feel alive!  I take T3 only now (~ 60mcg).

 

Since I've been slowly getting my mental capacity back I was able to piece together how I ended up with thyroid problems in the first place.  I am a polio survivor.  Throughout most of my life, no one has hesitated to stick me into or under radiation producing machines.  By the time I was in my 40's my thyroid just quit.  My sister, also a polio survivor, had hers removed in her late 20's because it had grown so large.  She had the type of polio that effected her throat and upper respiratory function.  Surprisingly, neither one of us has ever had cancer.

 

Taking T3 has been a challenge while I am weaning off the clonazepam.  It's been difficult to increase my dose (I am under a physician's care after kissing a few frogs) because it is very hard to know what is producing symptoms.  Plus, my adrenal system is touchy. 

 

I highly recommend the book that really helped me: The Paleo Thyroid Solution by Elle Russ.  She refers the reader to Paul Robinson who has written excellent books on using T3 only and also wrote a general book, The Thyroid Patients Manual.  Paul had quite a story of how he came to cope with Hashimoto's and get correct treatment.  His thyroid dysfunction turned his life upside down.  I don't know how he escaped being relegated to using psych meds.  Elle Russ' story details 10 years of terrible frustration  encountered just trying to get a doctor to listen to her.  This doesn't just happen to people with psych med issues.

 

Hope this helps.  And thank you for all you do.  If I can be of any further help, let me know.

 

[Blondiee1915]

Thank you for posting this @ChessieCat.  I was nervous NDT (armour thyroid) would drive my Reverse T3 high but it actually brought it down.  I guess it all depends on an individual and it can go either way.  I have my labs in a month will keep everyone posted if I notice anything 

[Kittygiggles]

On 1/1/2019 at 12:53 AM, bubbles said:

 

I was probably a bit abbreviated in my response! I'm not saying there's no connection between SSRIs and hypo! It may be the case. I'm just suspicious, as I said, that a lot of it is effect not cause. I agree, I'd like to see more research.

 

Given my own experiences, I think that diagnosis of thyroid disease is imperfect, and that maybe some of us are diagnosed later than one might hope.

 

I guess I'm wondering - given how "slow" thyroid disease can be, maybe some people are in the early stages of thyroid disease when they have psychological symptoms and then eventually the TSH is elevated, but by then they've already been on an SSRI.

 

I am sorry that I misunderstood your post as indicating that you were closed to the possibility of an SSRI causing thyroid disease but you've since clarified that you are open to that. I agree with your last post completely: the slowness of progression renders an SSRI cause in many patients unlikely. It is a long journey from the first autoantibody creation, to sufficient tissue damage to cause symptoms, then to the final diagnosis which can be many years into symptoms.

 

I think we're all diagnosed too late, often as a result of misdiagnosis. It has made me question how long ago my Hashimoto's started and it seems probable it precedes fluoxetine. However, as long as there is evidence to suggest it is one of a few possible causes, I have to keep investigating it. 

 

My hope is that all thyroid disease sufferers discover their root cause, eliminate it if still present, and then reverse the disease. I've heard that autoimmune conditions are becoming more prevalent. Perhaps a solution for future sufferers would be to advocate for autoantibody testing. At the first sign of them, one could at least make the simple lifestyle changes (e.g. eliminating processed foods, many medications etc) that may prevent or slow down the progression dramatically.

 

Thank you @ChessieCat and @newtonsmom2000 for this:- 

 

"I made a minor decrease and all I can say is I felt like I had awakened from the dead.  That was enough indication I needed to find a new doctor and take action!  I took a chance again and reduced my dosage further.  Again, not as big a change but I felt remarkably better!  My friend suggested I just stop my NDT for a maybe up to 3 weeks to allow the revT3 to clear.  I was terrified at the thought.  I found a doctor that was willing to prescribe 5 mcg T3.  I started taking them.  Eventually, I felt comfortable enough to stop the NDT and have never gone back.  The best way I can think to describe how this felt was this: I felt like I was in a cave, in total darkness, a beam of light breaks through and then suddenly I am standing in the sunlight and feel alive!  I take T3 only now (~ 60mcg)."

 

This is an important account of the value of listening to one's body when making thyroid treatment decisions. As I am likely experiencing an RT3 issue, it helped me greatly. I have also experienced a dramatic improvement in symptoms when reducing T4. I think some thyroid disease advocates should be more open minded about thyroid treatment, which I think could include revising and varying dose recommendations based on individual response to the many forms of thyroid hormone in question. T3-only medication makes a lot of sense in some cases and I suspect it could help me.

[Altostrata]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/776486

 

Arch Intern Med. 2010;170(22):1996-2003. doi:10.1001/archinternmed.2010.436

December 13/27, 2010

Effects of Evening vs Morning Levothyroxine Intake A Randomized Double-blind Crossover Trial

Nienke Bolk, MD; Theo J. Visser, PhD; Judy Nijman, BSc; et al

 

PubMed abstract

 

Quote

Conclusions  Levothyroxine taken at bedtime significantly improved thyroid hormone levels. Quality-of-life variables and plasma lipid levels showed no significant changes with bedtime vs morning intake. Clinicians should consider prescribing levothyroxine intake at bedtime.

 

 

ADMIN NOTE For our purposes, it may be possible to reduce thyroxine dosage if you take it at night, when it raises hormone levels more.

[bubbles]

6 hours ago, Altostrata said:

ur purposes, it may be possible to reduce thyroxine dosage if you take it at night, when it raises hormone levels more.

 

It’s interesting that taking t4 at night affects the hormone levels but doesn’t affect the symptoms. 

[Altostrata]

It's well-known that thyroid test results do not correlate closely with symptoms. Having so-called perfect labs doesn't mean you feel great. In fact, treating thyroid to get "good" lab results -- which many doctors do -- does not actually address the condition. Many people have found out they need custom dosing to feel well, regardless of lab results.

[bubbles]

@Altostrata I’m not sure that it is well known, but I agree.

[Blondiee1915]

I think most doctors look at TSH only and often ignore symptoms and do not do a full thyroid panel.  If TSH is within range they do nothing even though a person is symptomatic.  That is unfortunate 

[Marsha]

Totally agree that labs are only part of the picture. It seems dosing and targeted supplements as well as taking into consideration all factors that gave influence on my Hashimotos and really paying attention to how I feel is key. As life's stresses change so do labs and symptoms. Such a complex and misunderstood autoimmune condition. But what isn't these days. Ahh well. Thanks to all who post on this thread. 

[Rachellynn]

On 1/11/2019 at 6:10 PM, Kittygiggles said:

think we're all diagnosed too late, often as a result of misdiagnosis. It has made me question how long ago my Hashimoto's started and it seems probable it precedes fluoxetine. However, as long as there is evidence to suggest it is one of a few possible causes, I have to keep investigating it. 

Can anyone here help me figure out a first step on treating my hashimotos? No idea where to start and my Dr only looks at TSH. 

 

TSH - 1.13

Free T4 - .97 low (1.4 -1.8)

Free T3 - 2.7 low (3.4 - 4.4)

Reverse T3 - 10

 

TPO - 56

TBG - 141

 

any input would be much appreciated 

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Rachellynn, there are sites devoted to hypothyroid where you can get help understanding those test results. There are many ways to interpret thyroid test results. See

 

https://www.nahypothyroidism.org/how-to-find-an-online-thyroid-support-group-and-why-you-should/

 

https://www.amymyersmd.com/2016/10/thyroid-lab-results-really-mean/

 

https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/

 

According to my doctor (and others), the numbers don't mean a thing if you don't have hypothyroid symptoms, Hashimoto's antibodies or not. Diagnosis of hypothyroidism is "imperfect," as bubbles said, in an understatement. It's another condition that's very much overdiagnosed and overtreated, particularly in women. See https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/overtreating-the-thyroid/

 

I do think withdrawal can put a lot of stress on the thyroid and adrenals, as well as other hormonal systems. But you can have elevated TSH temporarily or thyroid tests that are out-of-whack forever and not develop hypothyroid symptoms.

 

It doesn't make any sense to take thyroid hormone just because you have thyroid test results out of normal range or certainly not merely antibodies. You may never develop real hypothyroidism, and thyroid hormone does have adverse effects. (Even if you do have symptoms of hypothyroidism, lots of people find the standard doses of thyroid hormone are too high. Dosing should be individualized.

 

(I have had Hashimoto's antibodies for nearly 15 years and thyroid test results slightly out of normal range for at least 5 years with no hypothyroid symptoms at all. In fact, my last TSH result was substantially reduced.)

 

We see a lot of people here who are taking thyroid hormone unnecessarily because their doctors, who don't understand withdrawal symptoms, can't figure out what they have so resort to thyroid treatment as a catch-all.

[LightQueen]

Wondering if anyone else with hypothyroidism has found a decreased need for thyroid meds as they've progressed with their tapers? I take natural dessicated thyroid and have for years, but had to decrease the dose last December which would have marked about the halfway mark on my taper. Wondering if it's just a fluke, or if anyone else has found that tapering changes thyroid function? 

[Kittygiggles]

On 2/17/2019 at 7:47 AM, Altostrata said:

It doesn't make any sense to take thyroid hormone just because you have thyroid test results out of normal range or certainly not merely antibodies. You may never develop real hypothyroidism, and thyroid hormone does have adverse effects. (Even if you do have symptoms of hypothyroidism, lots of people find the standard doses of thyroid hormone are too high. Dosing should be individualized.

 

(I have had Hashimoto's antibodies for nearly 15 years and thyroid test results slightly out of normal range for at least 5 years with no hypothyroid symptoms at all. In fact, my last TSH result was substantially reduced.)

 

We see a lot of people here who are taking thyroid hormone unnecessarily because their doctors, who don't understand withdrawal symptoms, can't figure out what they have so resort to thyroid treatment as a catch-all.

 

@Altostrata

I couldn't agree more. I started my thyroid journey with no real symptoms, and took the medication because my TSH was very high (~>30; ref ~<5). I felt side effects and then tolerated it longer term. Over the last year I tried to increase it and my body resisted, it then conceded and now I can tolerate a higher dose. Am I doing the right thing? All the websites above, I am sure I have recommended them at some point (such as STTM, TPAUK) say I should be on a much higher dose, at least 100micrograms. 

 

My doctor has put up with a lot from me and has been patient, giving me what I wanted and I feel bad for him. I wasn't rude, and thanked him always but I was probably, at best, an irritant. Now, having had the worst six months of my life, I think fluoxetine is to blame for almost all of my symptoms, with hypothyroidism and poorly optimized treatment to blame for the rest. Withdrawal is a factor too but I'll address that on my thread. 

 

With permission from the mods, I'd like to link Hormonesdemystified.com (HD). My goal here is to present a counterbalance, which I think Altostrata did in another way as well. It is important to consider that perhaps the conventional approach may have been right all along for some people. I don't claim to know what is right for another person, or myself but having written this not so long ago:-

 

On 1/12/2019 at 3:10 AM, Kittygiggles said:

This is an important account of the value of listening to one's body when making thyroid treatment decisions. As I am likely experiencing an RT3 issue, it helped me greatly. I have also experienced a dramatic improvement in symptoms when reducing T4. I think some thyroid disease advocates should be more open minded about thyroid treatment, which I think could include revising and varying dose recommendations based on individual response to the many forms of thyroid hormone in question. T3-only medication makes a lot of sense in some cases and I suspect it could help me.

 

I am willing to consider that perhaps I have been wrong about believing alternative medicine sites and not researching beyond confirmation bias to really understand my thyroid disease. I find HD's website and articles about the thyroid fascinating. Although his irreverent tone may cause some to turn away, I don't think tone should detract from someone's message. 

Ultimately, he challenges STTM, Dr Wentz, and all the websites and practitioners who claim that we need to perform expensive testing, take supplements, and modify our hormone therapy. As patients who have tried T4 and still suffer symptoms, we try to get better and that leads us to places like STTM, TPAUK and so on. We do what it takes to find relief from thyroid disease symptoms. 

I am not sure what the answer is but I think some of the testing, T3-only protocols, NDT protocols, supplements, and modifications are not necessary, unsubstantiated, and potentially harmful. I don't think HD is presenting us with a viable solution if T4 doesn't seem to be working but he isn't so narrow-minded as to never consider suppressing someone's TSH a little lower to see if things get better, or trial some T4 in someone whose numbers are okay but have overt hypothyroid symptoms. 

[Karma]

@LightQueen

I have found that I am able to reduce my thyroid treatment over time. I don’t know if it is related to tapering off my antidepressant or if it is due to other changes in my system. I can tell you my thyroid dosage has not stayed static over the years I’ve taken it, but has varied over time as my body changes.

 

At the end of 2018 I had a baseline ultrasound of my thyroid. The tech exclaimed my thyroid didn’t look like a Hashimoto’s thyroid. I believe that is because over time I addressed my health through diet. 

 

Love and light,

Karma

[Altostrata]

I am by no means a hypothyroidism expert, I've only agonized over my own Hashimoto's.

 

I've had the antibodies since 2005, my TSH has steadily crept up (but still below 4), and I have high reverse T3. The alternative sites such as Stop the Thyroid Madness would have me taking hormones to forestall worse labs. I worried about this for years.

 

However, I've never had symptoms of hypothyroidism (such as thinning hair, cold hands and feet, constipation). My primary care doctor, a D.O. who is properly stingy when it comes to drug prescriptions, believes that hypothyroidism should be treated only if it's symptomatic. After several discussions with him, I gave up on the idea of prophylactically taking thyroid hormone. It just doesn't make sense for me. (My doctor is amenable to prescribing custom dosages of T3 or combination thyroid hormone if I ever develop symptoms.)

 

About a year ago, I talked to a cardiologist who happens to be the editor-in-chief of JAMA Internal Medicine, to consult about taking a statin for my admittedly high cholesterol. We all had my labs right there, I asked her opinion about my taking thyroid hormone as well. Her position for both cholesterol measurements and thyroid tests is it doesn't make any sense to treat to the numbers, "we really don't know what these numbers mean."

 

Just because you can measure something doesn't make those measurement meaningful. You have to have the symptoms, too! If you poke around in hypothyroid lore, you'll see so many different interpretations of thyroid scores and treatment, it becomes clear that even endocrinology, with dozens of ways to measure thyroid function, is more of an art than a science. This is true even of diabetes treatment, with its frequent blood level measurements!

 

People go to their graves with out-of-whack thyroid tests but no overt hypothyroidism, and thyroid hormone has its own side effects. With no symptoms, the risk-benefit evaluation does not pencil out in favor of taking a possibly unnecessary drug. I've come to see this as a "not broke, don't fix it" situation. HormonesDemystified.com might do the same.

 

(And if you do have hypothyroid symptoms, it could be standard dosages make you feel fine, or you might have to embark on trial-and-error to find a dosage or combination that suits you.)

 

By the way, my last thyroid function tests show my TSH has come down significantly. My antibodies fluctuate, sometimes TPO goes down to negligible. Nobody knows what the antibody levels mean.

 

I agree with Karma, lifestyle changes towards what makes you feel better is always a good way to go. Our thyroids have to contend with a lot of chemical stress from our environments. I installed a water filtration system a couple of years ago to filter out fluorine and chloramine; who knows, maybe that's what was causing my thyroid antibodies. As I can't eat fish, I ingest 100mcg potassium iodide liquid per day for thyroid hormone fuel. I take liquid vitamin D3. (A few years back, overanxious about my thyroid, I poisoned myself with selenium by eating a couple of Brazil nuts each day. Turns out the fresh veggies I get at the farmer's market contain plenty of selenium, as the soil in Northern California is overstocked with it. Never assume you are deficient in selenium -- the alt med sites are almost universally misleading in this. Test blood levels first.)

 

Very few people go wrong with eating lots of green leafy vegetables. I eat tons of cooked crucifers myself.

 

[Femme47]

I've been following this topic for a while now. I have been diagnosed with the Hashimoto's a couple of years now and was put on Levothyrox. Another doctor told me that the level of the antibodies and TSH 4.7 at that time didn't really warrant to start unless, of course, I have the symtoms. Well, the symtomps are still there on and off and I have begun even wondering that these symtoms were due the the withdrawal rather than the thyroid problems. In addition, I have just seen a documentary about overprescribing the treatment for people with "light" hypothyroïdy as it has also recently clinically proven by a Swiss professor that it  does't make any difference compare to people who do not take any treatment. So, wondering if there is anyone sopped taking the levothyroxine. I am going to have another opinion with the view of possibility of stopping the treatment and see how I go.

Any thoughts?

[Karma]

So symptoms on and off are the hallmark of Hashimoto’s. I would cycle between hyper and hypo symptoms, but sometimes I would feel fine.

 

STTM actually recommends taking your temperature 3 times a day to determine whether you have a thyroid problem or not. It’s old school, based on Dr. Broda Barnes work. There are links to STTM in this thread.

 

I know of a few people who corrected high antibodies with diet and supplements. They all had mild symptoms. They didn’t take thyroid replacement medication.

 

I know one woman who went off Levothyroxine by supplementing iodine and never had a problem.

 

I have never regretted taking thyroid medication. I had no idea one could drive to work every day without falling asleep on the way. Or that you could get through the day without needing a nap. I don’t miss the bone, joint or muscle pain, the cognitive fog, the dry skin, or always being the coldest person in the room. I am also grateful for the weight loss, the mood stability, and the loss of chronic low level anxiety.

 

But I started my thyroid journey before beginning to taper off of these meds. I know my symptoms weren’t related to withdrawal.

 

Love and light,

 Karma 

[bubbles]

On 3/1/2019 at 5:09 AM, LightQueen said:

Wondering if anyone else with hypothyroidism has found a decreased need for thyroid meds as they've progressed with their tapers? I take natural dessicated thyroid and have for years, but had to decrease the dose last December which would have marked about the halfway mark on my taper. Wondering if it's just a fluke, or if anyone else has found that tapering changes thyroid function? 

 

My dose has recently gone up, but I think this is unrelated to tapering. I'm older and so my hormonal situation is changing. I also think I have probably been underdosed for a long time.

 

Like @Karma I have never regretted being treated for my hypothyroidism, though it's a bit annoying at times. My hypo was bad enough by diagnosis that I had secondary problems and I was very symptomatic.

[Smokeandmirrors22]

On 3/10/2019 at 4:10 PM, Karma said:

@LightQueen

I have found that I am able to reduce my thyroid treatment over time. I don’t know if it is related to tapering off my antidepressant or if it is due to other changes in my system. I can tell you my thyroid dosage has not stayed static over the years I’ve taken it, but has varied over time as my body changes.

 

At the end of 2018 I had a baseline ultrasound of my thyroid. The tech exclaimed my thyroid didn’t look like a Hashimoto’s thyroid. I believe that is because over time I addressed my health through diet. 

 

Love and light,

Karma

Hi Karma,

 

I realise this is an old post and maybe you've mentioned this already but I am interested in what diet you are using? Thanks!

[ChessieCat]

9 hours ago, Smokeandmirrors22 said:

what diet you are using?

 

I did a search for "diet" in Karma's Introduction topic.  This is the link to the results.

 

This is the link for a search on "diet" in this, the thyroid, topic.

[Kittygiggles]

22 hours ago, Smokeandmirrors22 said:

Hi Karma,

 

I realise this is an old post and maybe you've mentioned this already but I am interested in what diet you are using? Thanks!

 

Searching for 'diet' simply yields various results and not a complete picture of Karma's diet. For example, she talks about diet in terms of pH (specifically alkalinity), meat, vitamin K2, abstinence from gluten etc. A simple summary or information that one can piece together into a repeatable diet is lacking. I have not read her entire thread but to save time, a simple question such as @Smokeandmirrors22 asked seems appropriate.

 

If you are reading this @Karma and have the inclination and time to, please outline the following things:

 

1. A summary of your complete diet. For example, many autoimmune patients claim benefits from an autoimmune-paleo diet (excluding all modern/processed foods as well as nightshades, dairy, gluten, soy, and legumes), fasting, carnivore diets, among others.
2. Whether you had a much more damaged thyroid on a previous ultrasound, and any confirmations you've had that your thyroid tissue is regenerating
3. Whether your thyroid is functioning again and at what estimated level
4. Whether you have arrested your autoimmunity in relation to the thyroid, and in any other areas of your body that may be affected
5. What you believe your diet accomplished for you by highlighting any plausible causative mechanisms

 

I would be very interested in your response, thank you. Anyone who has managed to reverse an autoimmune condition and repair damaged tissue is rare and has very useful data that could benefit all of us. 

 

Of course, I appreciate you may be hesitant to share this information for fear of influencing others or giving false hope. However, I think everyone here knows that what works for one person may not work for another and consulting with a doctor prior to embarking on any dramatic lifestyle change is prudent. 

 

Thank you all for reading this.

[Karma]

This thread was created to offer insight that thyroid issues might be contributing to members symptoms. It is not intended to be a full blown patient advocate site. There are several of those you may or may not like or agree with, but those are better places to seek answers to the questions here. My personal preference is Stop the Thyroid Madness.  

 

I shared the results of my ultrasound as I have shared my progress getting off Effexor - just to celebrate success, not to indicate I have a recipe to heal others. You have to be an advocate for you own health.

 

 I will answer this basic question. I eat a

• strict gluten free diet with
• organic whole food
• preferred proteins are poultry and pork, though I eat beef on occasion 
• consume a large amount of leafy green vegetables
• consume organic fruits and vegetables 
• juice a green juice alternating with a tomato based juice roughly  4 times a week 
• work at keeping refined sugar to less than 25 grams a day
• limit dairy intake
• attempt to avoid all forms of soy
• work with a nutritionist to do energy testing and take the appropriate supplements to balance my system
• beverage of choice is water

I log my symptoms daily and track changes in my most concerning symptoms. 

 

Karma 

[Rezten]

I was recently informed that my thyroid is off.  I meet with the provider next week to discuss the numbers and treatment options.  I'm sure she will recommend medication of some sort.

 

I never had a problem before withdrawal and feel this is related to withdrawal and I really dont want to add any more drugs to my system.

 

My question is is it better to wait it out and see if my numbers go back to normal or treat it?  Are there other ways to treat it besides medication like diet?

 

 

[Altostrata]

I've gotten advice from two doctors not to treat the numbers, consider thyroid supplementation only if you have outright symptoms of hypothyroidism.

 

The test levels do fluctuate.

[Rezten]

56 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

only if you have outright symptoms of hypothyroidism.

Thank you. What do you mean by outright symptoms?.  I have all kinds of things going on and assume its WD symptoms.  My voice is hoarse and my throat feels thick the past week.  But it was like that for several months last year and subsided now it's back.  So I'm not sure what's what which is typical in QD.

[Altostrata]

My doctor told me typical hypothyroid symptoms are: Dry skin, hair falling out, cold hands and feet, constipation, severe fatigue.

 

There can be other symptoms, too, but you have to decide if they're bothersome enough to try thyroid drugs. I would say a constellation of vague symptoms is not enough.

[Blondiee1915]

My thyroid doctor goes by numbers but most importantly by symptoms.  He told me at my last appointment to leave my thyroid med at current dose and not go up since my energy did improve even though my free T3 fell a bit.  

 

I am on armour thyroid which did help with energy levels.  I have awful fatigue ever since my WD journey started. I also want to mention that I have low iron and low cortisol and treating both of these helped my energy levels.  In order for thyroid to function properly you need good iron and good cortisol.  Have you checked those? Do you know your lab results? 

 

I also know a person who in a midst of awful withdrawal had her THS at 4 or 5 she didn’t want the meds even though she was clearly out of range.  Once she got better and her wd symptoms were not as intense she retested her thyroid and it went back to normal range.  I think WD triggers so many things including thyroid dysfunction.  

 

 

[Rezten]

2 hours ago, Blondiee1915 said:

In order for thyroid to function properly you need good iron and good cortisol.  Have you checked those? Do you know your lab results? 

This is a new prescriber who also practices functional medicine. I'm not sure what else she checked.  I meet with her on Tuesday to get results. She just called me the other day to say my thyroid numbers were off and she was waiting for one more test to come back.  I'm not very tired but my throat feels thick and its hoarse. It was.like that  for several months last year but went away and now its back.  This is all during WD.

 

Was your thyroid off before WD?

[Karma]

While reading a book I happened on a web site with referenced, peer reviewed studies that prove the TSH value is NOT accurate for dosing thyroid, in particular when the individual has had certain conditions such as depression, anxiety, chronic or acute dieting, stress, diabetes, chronic fatigue, among other conditions.

 

The papers also indicate that people on antidepressants actually improve more when also on direct T3 (liothyronine).

 

Web Site: https://www.nahypothyroidism.org National Academy of Hypothyroidism

 

Thyroid Hormone Transport - https://www.nahypothyroidism.org/thyroid-hormone-transport/ - see section on Depression

 

How Accurate is TSH Testing - https://www.nahypothyroidism.org/how-accurate-is-tsh-testing/ 

 

Why Doesn't My Endocrinologist Know All of This -https://www.nahypothyroidism.org/why-doesnt-my-doctor-know-all-of-this/

 

I am printing out the papers on Thyroid Hormone Transport, highlighting key sections and sharing them with my providers.  I have long dis-allowed the use of TSH in my treatment, but now I have medical references supporting my position.

 

Hope something here is helpful to you.

 

Love and Light, 

Karma

[rapunzel2]

 

On 7/6/2019 at 11:04 PM, Blondiee1915 said:

I also know a person who in a midst of awful withdrawal had her THS at 4 or 5 she didn’t want the meds even though she was clearly out of range.  Once she got better and her wd symptoms were not as intense she retested her thyroid and it went back to normal range.  I think WD triggers so many things including thyroid dysfunction.  

 

 

 

I just looked up this topic because I finished my antidepressant taper in July and I'm in the midst of awful delayed withdrawal with fatigue that is out of this world. I was doing a lot better a month ago and then they tested thyroid and it was ok (I developed slight hypothyroid during last years, so I'm on low dose of medication for that). My health totally fell apart during last month and accidentally one doctor tested thyroid again, and it has fallen awfully during the last month. 

I'm even not so sure I have withdrawal, because I have this major fatigue, I can't even walk over one kilometer! can it be that it's still withdrawal? I don't know what's wrong with my body. I upped my thyroid meds today. maybe this will help. 

 

has anybody else noticed that withdrawal effects thyroid???????