Thyroid symptoms: hypothyroid, Hashimoto's

[Deise]

I was just stating that it was before I started the vegan diet that I had the tests done, so the levels are from when I still ate read meat. My B12 is at 356, which is normal range, but my nutritionist advised to try and get above 500, which is ideal.

 

I am currently just taking Luvox and the pill, and I also want to keep meds away as much as possible, and waiting to drop Luvox for good

I am currently at 18.75mg for about 3 weeks, I will wait a few weeks more before I taper again.

 

Thanks for the links, I will certainly watch them! 

As far as my doctor goes, I live in Portugal so I don't know if it's the same. We have public health service so with the doctors prescription the exams are very cheap to do. I don't know the prices to go by myself, I'll have to check. The problem is that our gp is like a "family doctor", so both me and my parents and they are attributed to us by the national health service. It's very complicated to change doctors but not impossible. My doctor is not very keen on listening to patients and often does not even want to make tests because she thinks it is unecessary. But I will see how it goes tomorrow, maybe she's in a better mood or something!

 

Thank you so much again

 

[Deise]

On 22/08/2017 at 5:12 PM, newtonsmom2000 said:

As to thyroid meds- get your levels tested.  I understand this is overwhelming to learn, but do yourself a favor and learn now before you become messed up by thyroid meds that are all wrong, which is highly likely to happen.  If you don't need them, you don't want to get started on these things.  Look up the Stop the Thyroid Madness web site and start learning, especially which tests are necessary for proper thyroid diagnosis.  Most docs do the wrong or inadequate tests.

 

I have my thyroid results, my doctor only did 3 tests because she said it was what was needed and I couldn't convince her otherwise (she thinks I have a problem with trying to find diseases I don't have which is not true at all, since in 25 years I have been to her office no more than 10 or 15 times). 

 

The results are:

Free T3 - 3.16 pg/mL (normal values: 1.80 - 4.20)

Free T4 - 1.40 ng/dL (normal values: 0.80 - 1.90)

TSH - 3.04 mU/L (normal values: 0.40 - 4.00)

 

My doctor said these are all normal so I should not worry about thyroid issues.

 

What do you think of the results?

 

Thank you

 

[mona11]

I think your results are fine and I would not worry about any thyroid issue with those results. The 3 tests she ordered are good because they are the Free T3 and Free T4 and TSH. Most doctors only order the TSH and the T4. Your doctor ordered the Free T4 and the Free T3, and TSH, which are enough to check if your thyroid is working fine. And the results are fine. If the results were not fine she should order some more tests before starting you on the thyroid medicine. But in your case, everything is fine and she is right, no medicine is necessary and no more tests are necessary for now. You can check your thyroid every year, doing the same tests, just to make sure everything is fine. But a good diet and exercises will keep your thyroid working fine.    

[Karma]

So a doctor would say these labs are normal because your labs fit within the range, but you are a patient presenting with real symptoms.  Your Free T3 is not optimal and your TSH would be considered hypothyroid in some areas.  The way they come up with the "normal" range is to test a population of presumed euthyroid people.  But if the normal range is wrong then you likely included people who are hypothyroid in your so called normal population.  You then perpetuate sick people walking around because your normal range is invalid.  In some regions 3 is the top of the range rather than 4.

 

The fact of the matter is your symptoms are saying you are hypothyroid.  Now, given your other labs you may be able to get where you need to be by improving your B12, iron and you should also look at your D3 level.  If you can you should test for antibodies - TPO and TgAb.  You may need to order these yourself.  I agree with Newtonsmom that you should check out Stop the Thyroid Madness. 

 

Look into joining NTH International https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/NaturalThyroidHormones/info

 

Patient advocate groups are great, but since you are here in Surviving Antidepressants I'm going to assume your system is sensitized.  You will want to only make one change at a time and track how you feel.  If NTH International recommends supplements or something else start with a very small dose and go very slowly.

 

I took my thyroid and adrenal care into my own hands.  In order to do that you need to be very in tune with your body.  It's not for everybody.  My medical professionals no longer argue with me because I present so healthy year after year.

 

I hope something here is helpful to you.

 

Love and light,

Karma

 

 

[Loopylou]

Hi im 4 hlf months into cold turkey my glands in my neck are huge is this normal? 

[Frogie]

Last year I had my thyroid tested, every test. Everything was ok except my TSH. It was a little high. The dr wanted to put my on levothyroxine. I took it I think maybe 3 times. It made me sooo sick it wasn't funny. He said to stop and wait until September and just have my TSH tested again. So, that's what I did. This time it was 5.1. He wanted me to start taking meds again. I told him I was going off meds, I didn't want to rake anything else. He said it wasn't dangerously high, to wait 3 months and test again.

 

My dr did say that Lexapro and other SSRI's can mess with your TSH levels. I'm under a lot of stress too. They say stress can raise your TSH also.

 

I went to the natural store we have and spoke to the holistic person that owns it. I explained everything that I just wrote. She suggested Solaray Thyroid Blend SP-26.

 

I just want to know if anyone knows, will it help decrease my TSH, and is it safe to take?

 

If you have any other suggestions, I will be happy to listen to them.

 

I appreciate all the help.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Callie]

Is it possible to have TSH and T4 free w/in normal range but still suffer from hypothyroidism? Do I need to have the full thyroid panel done to find out? Some of the myriad of symptoms I have point to hypothyroidism, yet my GP disagrees--especially because of the two thyroid test results. I can't get an endocrinologist to help me either because they have booked schedules three to seven months out or they have scary patient reviews. An appointment with the latter ones is almost readily available. No way!

 

My symptoms are relentless and keep worsening. There have been no windows for me, just one long 9.5 month wave. I don't know what to do anymore. I've read that healing from wd is painful, but I'm beginning to question that. How do I know if that's the case or if I'm suffering from some other psychiatric-drug-induced-post-use malady(ies)?

 

I was looking back at my tapering schedule from last year and realized that my psychiatrist abruptly stopped both Abilify and Trazadone simultaneously. So no taper there. She tapered me off of Buspirone in two weeks and Venlafaxine XR in less than two months doing a 50% reduction every two weeks. Maybe this is just as bad as going cold turkey.

 

Callie

[newtonsmom2000]

1 hour ago, Callie said:

Is it possible to have TSH and T4 free w/in normal range but still suffer from hypothyroidism? Do I need to have the full thyroid panel done to find out?

Yes.  A full thyroid panel is helpful.  You can have this done on your own for under $100 in the US.  It is important to have Free T3, Free T4, TSH, Rev T3 and thyroid antibodies tested to determine if you have Hashimoto's.  Miraculously, I don't, but the number of people with this autoimmune condition is rising.

 

That being said, depending on your doctor's knowledge (which is probably severely lacking) they will not know how to interpret the results.  On top of that, if you have a doc that believes the tests know you better than you do, they won't care if you feel badly.  I didn't like doing it, but I had to take matters into my own hands, fire my doc (an internist who should have known better),  and get educated how to read my results.  The best place to learn how to understand your thyroid, tests and treatments is Stop the Thyroid Madness website.  It's easy to find.   From there you'll find all kinds of resources.  Don't fail to check you public library for books on thyroid.  That's what I did.  The site mentioned a couple of posts above is also great.  You have lots of resources. 

 

All this said, and you will learn this, TSH is not a thyroid hormone.  It is a pituitary hormone.  It's helpful to find out if your thyroid is being stimulated to produce T4.  If this isn't happening, you indeed have trouble.  If it's producing too much, you have trouble.  The STTM site will explain how this works.  Trust me when I tell say you need to learn how all this works because at best most MDs are 15- 20 years behind in their knowledge of a lot of things and these days, unless they become a victim of the ailment, only know what Big Pharma tells them to know.  In the case of thyroid,  they only know to tell you Synthroid or it's generic is what you need.  So much to say but you can learn this.

 

Do not expect an endocrinologist to be of any help.  They are worse than GP's.  The only doctors I know of that understand thyroid, one I know personally, have Hashimoto's.  The other, Dr. Westin Childs, became quite ill after his residency and realized his education failed to teach him what was ailing him.  He has excellent videos I highly recommend.  The doc I know personally is an OB that is now spending more time treating his patient's thyroid and insulin/diabetes problems than being an OB, because these women have no one to go to.  His frustration level is very high with the situation.

 

1 hour ago, Callie said:

My symptoms are relentless and keep worsening. There have been no windows for me, just one long 9.5 month wave. I don't know what to do anymore. I've read that healing from wd is painful, but I'm beginning to question that. How do I know if that's the case or if I'm suffering from some other psychiatric-drug-induced-post-use malady(ies)?

W/d is easier for some people.  It wasn't for me.  I am now tapering a benzo.  I successfully tapered off Effexor XR in Dec 2016.  I spent 1 year tapering 90 % of my dose and 3.5 years getting of the other 10%- I was unprepared for that happening.  All the medical professionals I know told me it was impossible.  It's totally possible.

 

I couldn't agree more that you may have confusing symptoms resulting from the way your drugs have been handled.  Scarily, this may be impacting your thyroid function.  Did you come into psyche meds with you thyroid problems or were they diagnosed after? 

 

The way these docs jerk patients from one med to another, IMO, exacerbates psyche symptoms.  When they finally leave you alone, they mellow out.  A healthy sense of knowing when to say "NO," is critical in getting off these med.  The other thing is, I'm sorry to say, grit and resolve.  It is so tempting to find relief in a pill or supplement, but they often make things worse.  It's really important to get in touch with what you feel is right for you.  I just had to tell my GP no to a medication she felt was necessary for me. 

 

2 hours ago, Callie said:

I was looking back at my tapering schedule from last year and realized that my psychiatrist abruptly stopped both Abilify and Trazadone simultaneously. So no taper there. She tapered me off of Buspirone in two weeks and Venlafaxine XR in less than two months doing a 50% reduction every two weeks. Maybe this is just as bad as going cold turkey.

You are so correct to surmise this is the wrong way to handle your meds.  I'm only familiar with Venlafaxine SR- that is Effexor XR.  That is what I spent 4.5 years tapering off.  You didn't say how long you were on them.  That plays a role but doesn't determine how you are impacted.  Some people are more sensitive than others.  You've been off for 9 months so you're going to have to deal with the blowback.  IMO, and I am no expert or a medical professional, it would be unwise to reinstate any of these drugs.  All I can suggest is you continue on.  You will heal.  It takes time. 

 

This is my suggestion- and it is exactly that.  If you want to pay for the thyroid tests or if you can get them done through insurance, do it.  It will give you an idea of what may be wrong.  But, and this is crucial, be aware that your entire system is coping with the backlash of a lot of unsound (IMO) pharmacological protocols.  If you don't really have thyroid problems, you don't want to be put on medications.  Had I known what was really going on with me, I could have eventually gotten off thyroid meds rather than having to take them the rest of my life. 

 

Lastly, if you have not done so already, it is so important to do what you can with your diet and lifestyle.  I balked at this step for too long.  I wish I had made changes sooner.  Things would have gone so much better for me.  Sugar is your biggest enemy.   Take little steps at a time.   Become your own advocate.  My counselor reminded me that I have the ability to walk away from a doctor that is not helping me.  We are in a business relationship.  I can leave and find someone else that will help me. 

[Callie]

18 minutes ago, newtonsmom2000 said:

Did you come into psyche meds with you thyroid problems or were they diagnosed after? 

 

I never had thyroid problems in my life and haven't been diagnosed with any either. I have some symptoms that might be indicative of hypothyroidism such as chronic constipation, cold intolerance, dry mouth at night, and muscle weakness and stiffness. They could just be wd symptoms, too. I was hoping the doctor could rule out hypothyroidism, but apparently he isn't thorough enough with testing.

 

31 minutes ago, newtonsmom2000 said:

You can have this done on your own for under $100 in the US.  It is important to have Free T3, Free T4, TSH, Rev T3 and thyroid antibodies tested to determine if you have Hashimoto's. 

 

I will have to look into doing this. Now that you suggested it, it will probably be my best bet.

 

33 minutes ago, newtonsmom2000 said:

But, and this is crucial, be aware that your entire system is coping with the backlash of a lot of unsound (IMO) pharmacological protocols.  If you don't really have thyroid problems, you don't want to be put on medications. 

 

I totally agree. I am terrified of all meds now.

 

34 minutes ago, newtonsmom2000 said:

You didn't say how long you were on them. 

 

I was taking the meds I mentioned above for seven years. Prior to that, I was on Lexapro, Buspirone, and Trazadone for seven years. I was taking the poisons for a total of 14 years. It might just be the polydrugging, number of years on them, and the rapid taper that are causing all of my symptoms. I'm just trying to eliminate the possibility of ailments like hypothyroidism. I also have severe weight loss and muscle wasting, making me wonder if I have malabsorption. I feel like I'm becoming a hypochondriac. 

 

50 minutes ago, newtonsmom2000 said:

it is so important to do what you can with your diet and lifestyle.  I balked at this step for too long.  I wish I had made changes sooner.  Things would have gone so much better for me.  Sugar is your biggest enemy.  

 

I tried special diets to no avail, but I still don't consume sugar. Maybe that's why I'm losing weight. As for lifestyle, I really have no life at all anymore. I feel totally disabled, and I'm pretty much homebound. This is not the way I wanted to spend my retirement.

 

I greatly appreciate your input. It really helps!

 

Callie

 

 

 

[Karma]

Sorry to hear you are suffering. Newtonsmom gave you good advice. STTM is an excellent resource. They can recommend how to find a good doctor you can work with, but educating yourself will serve you well. It may take some work, but it will be worth it.

As as an example, a Free T3 in range doesn’t necessarily point to being normal. I feel my best with a Free T3 near the top of the range. STTM will help you understand where you need to be.

 

I work with a nurse practitioner who manages my hormones, but it is a collaboration. My PCP is a DO who I’ve seen for 15 years. He saw me pre-hypothyroid diagnosis and after I got proper treatment. He has asked me who I work with so he can refer patients because this patient presents as unquestionably healthy regardless of what the labs show.  My TSH is <0.0006 - it is undectable and that is counter to everything doctors have been taught, but I forced what worked for me based on how I feel. I have no problem giving myself a replacement dose of thyroid for the rest of my life, but sometimes it is possible to correct the condition with minerals and supplements. You’ll need to do some additional research to learn about that.

 

Have you been been tested for Celiac disease? I was diagnosed in 2005 and it took 3-5 years of a gluten free diet and working with a nutritionist to fully regain my health. If you are not taking magnesium it may help your withdrawals and your bowels. Your symptoms sound like Celiacs to me. Celiacs and Hashimotos are often found together.

 

In my opinion your were virtually cold turkeyed from those meds. If you haven’t already look through the forum for tips for coping with withdrawal symptoms.

 

Love and light,

Karma

 

[LilyBlueRose]

Functional med/naturopath drs seem to know more about thyroid levels and follow more of a STTM approach. I've been to atleast 7 endocrinologist who just do not take it serious enough. You need a free t3 and possible a reverse t3. What were your tsh and free t4 readings? In range and optimal are very different. 

 

I have nodules that go hot and cause hyperthyroidism as well as positive hashimotos antibodies 

[newtonsmom2000]

Hi Karma!  Your answers filled in the blanks I didn't mention and are excellent! 

 

How I envy you for having that nurse practitioner!!!  After years of spiraling problems, I discovered I am one of the rare people that cannot convert T4.  Trying to find a medical practitioner that is knowledgeable in this area is next to impossible!  I have just changed doctors- again, because neither of the previous 2 had a clue.  I'm not sure what doc #3 will do as she was alarmed my BP was high while I was at my initial appointment.  She wanted me to take bp meds- I said no.  I am weaning off clonazepam and the anxiety alone from interacting with a new doctor (the last one put me through the wringer) was enough to make me pretty tense.

 

I like all your suggestions for dietary approaches.  My experience has taught me that you can't see the immediate impact of things like gluten and grains or other things someone can be sensitive to.  I got so backed into a corner that I really had no choice- do something or live in misery.  I chose to do something.  It took months but I feel so much better, except for the connected benzo things.

 

I also agree that Callie needs to look for other's experiences in the forums.  She was taken off those drugs way too quickly.  I can barely fathom the physiological impact this would have on someone's body. 

 

Thanks for your excellent input.

 

 

[Callie]

Thanks, everyone, for your input.

 

I have already tried a gluten-free, dairy-free, organic diet. It did not alleviate any of my symptoms.

 

Karma, I was never tested for Celiac disease.

 

Kalinia, my TSH was 1.060 uIU/mL and T4 Free was 1.05 ng/dL.

 

I will try to see a naturopath doctor. I often spend entire days trying to find a doctor who can help me but am not having any luck. I am so very sick that I really believe that I am just dying from neurotoxic poisoning. Really. My body was being bombarded by a mixture of too many dangerous chemicals (psychiatric meds) for too long of a time. There are really no words that can describe the constant pain and agony I have been enduring; and it keeps getting worse. I meditate, do yoga, and exercise. Unfortunately, nothing is helping.

 

My signature says that I'm hoping to be well someday, but really I truly doubt that is going to happen. I believe that I have to work on learning how to accept the inevitable. Sorry to sound so negative and fatalistic, but this is my reality. Yesterday, I saw pictures of myself from a year ago. Looking at them and seeing me now, I look like those before and after pictures of meth users--even worse. I am unrecognizable. I honestly think that I am dying.

 

Thanks again to all.

 

Callie

[Karma]

Your systems has experienced a trauma with all the jerking around doctors have done with your meds.  It doesn't mean you will never recover, it just means you need to be gentle with yourself and allow some time to heal.  I find logging my symptoms daily helps me to see incremental improvements - something to consider.

 

Did you miss the part about how it took me at least 3 years to heal my gut once I went on a gluten free diet?  These things do not resolve over night.  One of the first supplements I was put on was magnesium.  Originally I was on about 1600 mg - no lie!  1600 mg Magnesium Glycinate. A normal dose is about 400 mg.  I needed to rebuild my digestive tracts ability to digest food.  I do recommend you find a Naturopath or even just begin working with a nutritionist.  You might be able to slowly increment your dose of magnesium until your bowels start to move on a regular basis.  That's the great thing about magnesium - you can take it to bowel tolerance.  You know you are on too much if your bowels get loose.

 

Whether you work with a Naturpath, functional doctor, DO or nutritionist, I recommend you only make one change at a time and take it very slowly.  Log your symptoms to see if the change improves how you feel, makes you feel worse or results in no change.  Do not let people drive you to make multiple or large changes - your system is likely now sensitized.

 

Once again, I'm sorry you feel so lousy.  I need for you to try and remember how you felt before all the meds. What would good feel like? Visualize what feeling good would look like and feel like.  When I first joined this forum I had irrational fears, significant anxiety, uneven emotions and I couldn't sleep.  I don't think I felt as bad as you describe, but it was pretty bad.  Now, I am calm and experience joy in life ... and I am still tapering off of Effexor and Xanax.  But I am the definition of patience because I've been tapering since 2007.

 

Love and light,

 

Karma

[Callie]

Karma,

 

I talked to a naturopath doctor (ND) and do plan to work with her. She did a phone consult and told me to start taking B complex liquid, evening primrose oil, 400 mg per day of magnesium oxide, 50 billion flora probiotics, and to do several enemas. She even suggested going for Angel of Water colonic treatments. She is sending me a test kit to find out what my neurotransmitter levels are. She also told me about the HPA axis damage I probably have. I just hope she's steering me in the right direction.

 

I haven't had a window yet. Things really started going downhill fast for me in mid-October, six months into wd. I think that the meds stayed in my body tissues for months after my rapid taper ended. When they finally all depleted, the more horrible symptoms I have now emerged. I worsen by degrees every day even though I am trying everything I can to heal.

 

I really appreciate your suggestions, Karma, and will try them, too.

 

Callie

[newtonsmom2000]

Hi Callie,

I've been following your post.  I would do some research about the things the naturopath is recommending.  Here is a link to things others have experienced problems with while withdrawing from  these drugs (benzos in particular).

 

http://w-bad.org/reactions-setbacks/

 

I just heard a guy's story yesterday (he wrote a book- Death Grip  by Matt Samet).  He said the B vitamins hyped him terribly.  So be cautious here.  You have to follow your instincts about what might work for you or against you.  I have a naturopath that I work with as well.  He suggested something to me recently, for the 2nd time and I said no- on my instincts.  He's been very helpful to me in the past, but I want to be completely honest in saying some of the things he recommended really messed me up. 

 

That being said, you are in the throws of the results of too rapid discontinuation of the drugs.  Your best avenue at this point- and this is totally up to you, I am no medical professional and I certainly don't know near as much as many on this forum- is to be patient and get through.  You will be better, feel better and heal.  It takes time.  I certainly know the temptation of trying to find something to fix me as I've gotten off these drugs.  The professionals that work with me want me to not suffer and be comfortable.  Sometimes I just have to be patient, get through each day and do what I can to take care of myself.

 

I'm a part of several Facebook groups and forums.  From the accounts I've read of others, you are in the midst of a hellish storm.  I've read and listened to many that have healed and gone on to good health, but for a time, the misery and discomfort was seemingly unbearable. 

 

Karma's advice is the most excellent:  Everything she said below is spot-on. 

14 hours ago, Karma said:

Your systems has experienced a trauma with all the jerking around doctors have done with your meds.  It doesn't mean you will never recover, it just means you need to be gentle with yourself and allow some time to heal.  I find logging my symptoms daily helps me to see incremental improvements - something to consider.

 

Did you miss the part about how it took me at least 3 years to heal my gut once I went on a gluten free diet?  These things do not resolve over night.  One of the first supplements I was put on was magnesium.  Originally I was on about 1600 mg - no lie!  1600 mg Magnesium Glycinate. A normal dose is about 400 mg.  I needed to rebuild my digestive tracts ability to digest food.  I do recommend you find a Naturopath or even just begin working with a nutritionist.  You might be able to slowly increment your dose of magnesium until your bowels start to move on a regular basis.  That's the great thing about magnesium - you can take it to bowel tolerance.  You know you are on too much if your bowels get loose.

 

Whether you work with a Naturpath, functional doctor, DO or nutritionist, I recommend you only make one change at a time and take it very slowly.  Log your symptoms to see if the change improves how you feel, makes you feel worse or results in no change.  Do not let people drive you to make multiple or large changes - your system is likely now sensitized.

 

One again, I'm sorry you feel so lousy.  I need for you to try and remember how you felt before all the meds. What would good feel like? Visualize what feeling good would look like and feel like.  When I first joined this forum I had irrational fears, significant anxiety, uneven emotions and I couldn't sleep.  I don't think I felt as bad as you describe, but it was pretty bad.  Now, I am calm and experience joy in life ... and I am still tapering off of Effexor and Xanax.  But I am the definition of patience because I've been tapering since 2007.

 

Love and light,

 

Karma

 

I want to emphasize what she said about making more than one change at a time.  She is so right about this.  I totally missed that I was having withdrawal issues because I changed my diet, my thyroid meds, added some things and lost 40# all within a span of 8 months.  I was sure I was having leaky gut issues and at the wrong dose of my thyroid meds for the last 6 months.  I made a small cut in my benzo (.075 mgs).  The blowback from this turned my world upside down.  I didn't recognize it for the next 6 months.  Now that I am wise to it, I'm being very careful.  My doctor wanted me to take BP meds- I said no.  While I was at her office, I was very tense, rather anxiety-ridden because I'd been treated very badly by my previous physician.  I respectfully declined.  I've learned for the future to say I'd like to look into it and then make my decision.  I talked it over with a medical relative and my husband (who was with me at the appointment).  We all agreed this was inadvisable for me. 

 

I hope we have been of some help and perhaps comfort.  Karma's words about patience are so true.  For me, I have to focus on where I am going and how much better things will eventually be.  I've had a long and rough ride myself.  With each thing I've done to improve my situation, it is a positive step.

 

Newton's Mom

 

 

 

 

[Callie]

Hi, Newtonsmom,

 

Thanks for chiming in.

 

I am leery about the B vitamins. I had planned on using a very low dose and building up. I already take magnesium, only 125 mg per day. Part of the problem is that I don't know if my body/tissues are actually absorbing nutrients. It's so hard to figure out what's going on.

 

Thank you so much for your message of wisdom. I'll take it to heart.

 

Callie

[Karma]

Callie,

 

This Naturopath sounds promising. Maybe this ND has worked with sensitive people before and can recommend what to change first (give a few days) and what to try next. My nutritionist does that for me whenever we make changes. I log what I took for how many days and I rate my symptoms on a 10 point scale.  Once I feel stable with that change I can try another. Those would be the symptoms unique to you. My 10 point scale is 10 is fantastic and 1 is the worst, but you can define your scale however you need to.. (If there is a mod monitoring this discussion can you pop my link in here about logging?)

 

B vitamins are necessary for for proper thyroid function, but you are right to be cautious because they can be very activating.

 

Love and light 

 

Karma

[Frogie]

On January 25, 2018 at 5:27 AM, Karma said:

Callie,

 

This Naturopath sounds promising. Maybe this ND has worked with sensitive people before and can recommend what to change first (give a few days) and what to try next. My nutritionist does that for me whenever we make changes. I log what I took for how many days and I rate my symptoms on a 10 point scale.  Once I feel stable with that change I can try another. Those would be the symptoms unique to you. My 10 point scale is 10 is fantastic and 1 is the worst, but you can define your scale however you need to.. (If there is a mod monitoring this discussion can you pop my link in here about logging?)

 

B vitamins are necessary for for proper thyroid function, but you are right to be cautious because they can be very activating.

 

Love and light 

 

Karma

Hi Karma:

 

Are you on thyroid medication?

 

My dr and I have been watching my thyroid for over a year. Today my TSH came back 7.30. He said it's time for me to go on something now. So he has put me on a natural one (I can't remember the name, I think the generic for Aurmor?), and the lowest dosage to start out.

 

I just wanted to know if that is a good one.

 

I have been tested for Celiac and it was negative.

 

I'm in tears. I really thought I could beat this.

 

Thanks for answering me. I really appreciate it.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

 

PS I also live in Colorado.

[Frogie]

While I truly appreciate all the research that has been done on the thyroid. The supplements, etc...

 

I would really like to know who is on thyroid medication, what type, how much, and how it is helping them.

 

Thank you...

 

Frogie xx

[Karma]

I am on 3 grains of Nature-throid (its spelled correctly) plus 12.5 mcg T3 which is equivalent to 3-1/2 grains. A grain of Nature-throid is 65 mg of thyroid. Nature-throid is natural desiccated thyroid made from pig thyroid. It contains T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin - the same thyroid hormones your own thyroid would give you if it was functioning properly.

 

Armour is also natural desiccated thyroid. I prefer Nature-throid.

 

Basically, I take a full replacement dose of thyroid and suppress my TSH. I take thyroid based more on how I feel than labs. I am looking for good energy, motivation, good sleep, a sense of calm, being able to feel joy and enjoy my life. It is unacceptable to me to have low grade depression or anxiety, lack of energy, terribly disrupted sleep, a lack of motivation, brain fog, muscle or bone pain or to be losing my hair. Check STTM for a long list of hypothyroid symptoms.

 

There are many things that need to be balanced to feel well on thyroid replacement therapy. It is not good to load up on thyroid if iron, B vitamins, vitamin D, selenium or cortisol are out of balance. See STTM for guidance on labs and nutrients that need to be balanced in order to fully realize the benefits of good thyroid replacement.

 

hope something here is helpful.

 

Love and light,

Karma

[Frogie]

13 minutes ago, Karma said:

I am on 3 grains of Nature-throid (its spelled correctly) plus 12.5 mcg T3 which is equivalent to 3-1/2 grains. A grain of Nature-throid is 65 mg of thyroid. Nature-throid is natural desiccated thyroid made from pig thyroid. It contains T4, T3, T2, T1 and calcitonin - the same thyroid hormones your own thyroid would give you if it was functioning properly.

 

Armour is also natural desiccated thyroid. I prefer Nature-throid.

 

Basically, I take a full replacement dose of thyroid and suppress my TSH. I take thyroid based more on how I feel than labs. I am looking for good energy, motivation, good sleep, a sense of calm, being able to feel joy and enjoy my life. It is unacceptable to me to have low grade depression or anxiety, lack of energy, terribly disrupted sleep, a lack of motivation, brain fog, muscle or bone pain or to be losing my hair. Check STTM for a long list of hypothyroid symptoms.

 

There are many things that need to be balanced to feel well on thyroid replacement therapy. It is not good to load up on thyroid if iron, B vitamins, vitamin D, selenium or cortisol are out of balance. See STTM for guidance on labs and nutrients that need to be balanced in order to fully realize the benefits of good thyroid replacement.

 

hope something here is helpful.

 

Love and light,

Karma

Thanks...

 

I just started Armour 15 (the smallest dose) today.

 

I can't take Vitamin D, makes me deathly ill. Vitamin B reves me to the moon and back, even tiny small amounts. I do take Selenium.

 

Do you take this before a meal, or after? I'm getting different responses.

 

I'm still tapering Lexapro, then I have Xanax to go.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

 

[LilyBlueRose]

One thing to chime in is to make. Sure you have your selenium levels checked once on a while. It can be toxic at high levels in the blood. I was taking 200mcg a day as a recommendation for hashimotos and I ended up having too high blood levels of it. 

[Frogie]

8 hours ago, Kalinia said:

One thing to chime in is to make. Sure you have your selenium levels checked once on a while. It can be toxic at high levels in the blood. I was taking 200mcg a day as a recommendation for hashimotos and I ended up having too high blood levels of it. 

Thanks I appreciate your help!

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Karma]

We want to check our levels before we start supplmenting and periodically while supplementing. I do something called a biomeridian every quarter and check serum levels every 6 months. If your body reacts negatively to a supplement, obviously don’t take it. But if you started a full recommended dose, maybe next time you start with a very small dose and work your way up.

 

There may be something else going on with your system that you cannot tolerate B vitamins. I am not a nutritionist or medical professional so I cannot guide you on that.

 

Vitamin D can be created in the body from sun exposure without sunscreen. During the summer I walk outside with bare legs (no sun screen) for 20 to 30 minutes daily late in the afternoon. It really increases my vitamin D level. I have to check serum levels of D in the summer and sometimes I stop supplementing until the days are shorter because I have gotten over 100 a couple of times.

 

I do not swallow my thyroid. I let it dissolve under my tongue. I take 1 grain + 12.5 mcg upon waking. 1 grain 5 hours later and 1 grain 5 hours later. STTM recommends simply splitting the dose morning and afternoon. I do what works for me. 

 

Starting with a small small dose is an excellent idea. But you will need to increase as your body becomes accustomed to the new supply of thyroid hormone. Please check Stop The Thyroid Madness for mistakes patients and their doctors make.

 

I’m still tapering Effexor, Xanax and gabapentin, but I have tapered very slowly over a long period of time and my system has been pretty stable. Changes I am able to make may not work for others. I made my thyroid treatment a priority about 9 years ago and forced my medical professionals into supporting me. 

 

Love and light,

 

Karma

[Frogie]

20 minutes ago, Karma said:

We want to check our levels before we start supplmenting and periodically while supplementing. I do something called a biomeridian every quarter and check serum levels every 6 months. If your body reacts negatively to a supplement, obviously don’t take it. But if you started a full recommended dose, maybe next time you start with a very small dose and work your way up.

 

There may be something else going on with your system that you cannot tolerate B vitamins. I am not a nutritionist or medical professional so I cannot guide you on that.

 

Vitamin D can be created in the body from sun exposure without sunscreen. During the summer I walk outside with bare legs (no sun screen) for 20 to 30 minutes daily late in the afternoon. It really increases my vitamin D level. I have to check serum levels of D in the summer and sometimes I stop supplementing until the days are shorter because I have gotten over 100 a couple of times.

 

I do not swallow my thyroid. I let it dissolve under my tongue. I take 1 grain + 12.5 mcg upon waking. 1 grain 5 hours later and 1 grain 5 hours later. STTM recommends simply splitting the dose morning and afternoon. I do what works for me. 

 

Starting with a small small dose is an excellent idea. But you will need to increase as your body becomes accustomed to the new supply of thyroid hormone. Please check Stop The Thyroid Madness for mistakes patients and their doctors make.

 

I’m still tapering Effexor, Xanax and gabapentin, but I have tapered very slowly over a long period of time and my system has been pretty stable. Changes I am able to make may not work for others. I made my thyroid treatment a priority about 9 years ago and forced my medical professionals into supporting me. 

 

Love and light,

 

Karma

Hi Karma:

 

I just started it yesterday.

 

I have been reading you can take Armour at night before bed. I take my Lexapro and Xanax in the morning. Then I take my selenium mid morning. And another dose of Xanax in the afternoon, and early evening.

 

As long as I wait 2-3 hours after eating am I ok to take it at night before bed?

 

I can't wait 2-3 hours in the morning after taking it to take my Lexaoro and Xanax or I WILL be a HUGE mess.

 

Thanks for helping me.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Karma]

Here is what STTM says about taking thyroid, “It is false that you have to have an empty stomach when using NDT, patients have reported But when swallowing desiccated thyroid,  it might be a good idea to avoid iron, estrogen and calcium supplements at the same time, plus possibly magnesium, since all are stated to bind the thyroid hormones to some degree. But note the “to some degree”. It’s only partial binding. Supposedly, we read that the tannins in coffee or tea can also bind thyroid hormones to some degree, but some patients report they take their NDT with coffee and are fine.”

 

If you are more comfortable swallowing your thyroid dose and don’t take it with the supplements identified above you might be better off taking it in the morning. It contains T3 which is the active life giving form of thyroid. But T 3 is short-lived in the body. Some people take thyroid at night and do well. I used to take thyroid at night, but then found it caused disrupted sleep. When I moved all my doses during the day my sleep improved.

 

I dissolve thyroid under my tongue first thing in the morning and drink a 12 ounce half caff Americano right after. I have no problem with it.

 

There is no exact formula. You may go through some trial and error. But if you pay attention to how your body responds you’ll find what works for you.

 

I highly recommend StopTheThyroidMadness —> Thyroid Meds —> Natural Thyroid 101. https://stopthethyroidmadness.com/natural-thyroid-101/

 

I also recommend you check out this post I started in 2012. Tracking and rating my symptoms has been incredibly valuable.

 

 

Love and light,

Karma

 

[Frogie]

Hi Karma:

 

I really appreciate all the help and support you are giving me.

 

I took it this morning with my Lexapro, Xanax and an Omega 3. So far I have no side affects. Would I feel something? That was at 7am.

 

I spoke with my dr after doing that (I kinda freaked out). He said it was fine to take it with my Lexapro, Xanax, and Omega 3, but to avoid magnesium for a couple of hours. I don't take magnesium, calcium, iron or any estrogen.

 

I saw where you drink coffee and do fine. I don't drink coffee, but I drink a coke in the morning for my caffeine. Should I wait 30 minutes or so before drinking it and drink water? I took my meds with water this morning. I also waited about 30 minutes before I ate my banana that I always eat in the morning.

 

Thank you for all the information you provided me. I will read it soon. My eyes are bad right now. I go in Monday for an eye exam and new glasses. Reading my iPad gives me headaches. That's what I get for going to one of those places that check your eyes and you get glasses in an hour. I ended up with 4 different prescriptions by 2 different Drs. I'm going to a qualified place this time. My dr also mentioned that my TPO was 12, and TgAb was 0, so I'm highly unlikely for Hashimoto.

 

I noticed you live in Colorado. I was born and raised in Longmont. I currently live on the eastern plains, but my fiancé and I are moving back to the Longmont area hopefully the end of the year. May I ask what part of Colorado you live in?

 

Thanks again. You have no idea how I appreciate your help.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

 

 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Frogie,

Did you get or have you had any additional blood work done around the thyroid........other than the TSH?  T3 and T4 come to mind.  I think Karma lays out some of that information here in this topic.

I considered the Armour thyroid awhile back myself.  And then just held on starting or continuing it.  My numbers/labwork actually improved while not taking any thyroid replacement.  My concern at the time was becoming dependent on yet, another medication..........and then..........that unknown.........that if I used a replacement medication/supplement/drug that any natural healing might not take place.........also that it might become a lifelong condition.  I did a bit of research and found that some can improve with dietary measures and that once started with thyroid replacement.........that some could also slowly come off of it.........and re establish normal thyroid functioning, with diet influences and time.

Just my 2 cents.

Happy journaling and symptom recording.  As well as noting each day your drugs/medications/times and symptoms.  This can definitely be so very helpful.

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

[Frogie]

13 minutes ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi Frogie,

Did you get or have you had any additional blood work done around the thyroid........other than the TSH?  T3 and T4 come to mind.  I think Karma lays out some of that information here in this topic.

I considered the Armour thyroid awhile back myself.  And then just held on starting or continuing it.  My numbers/labwork actually improved while not taking any thyroid replacement.  My concern at the time was becoming dependent on yet, another medication..........and then..........that unknown.........that if I used a replacement medication/supplement/drug that any natural healing might not take place.........also that it might become a lifelong condition.  I did a bit of research and found that some can improve with dietary measures and that once started with thyroid replacement.........that some could also slowly come off of it.........and re establish normal thyroid functioning, with diet influences and time.

Just my 2 cents.

Happy journaling and symptom recording.  As well as noting each day your drugs/medications/times and symptoms.  This can definitely be so very helpful.

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

mmt

Hi MMT:

 

Everything was checked and it was all normal. My TSH just keeps going up. For instance, in May, 2017 it was 4.1, in September,  2017, it was 5.1 and now it's 7.3 (normal is .04-4.0). So my dr and I agreed that I would take the smallest dose of Armour.

 

He did say that my antibodies didn't show any sign of Hashimoto disease. That's great.

 

We are going to monitor it close since it's only my TSH. He said that Lexaoro and Xanax can make your TSH levels go up and down and I may not have to be on it the rest of my life. That's also why I chose a natural thyroid medication. Also, I tried levothyroxine a couple of years ago, and was really sick from it.

 

So, I guess it can be good news too. We shall see.

 

I just did some crying yesterday because I don't want to be on meds forever. But my mother in law has been on it over 20+ years and she's in her 80's and fine.

 

Thanks for asking and caring

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

 

PS You are the 1st mod, other than Karma that has even responded to me. Thank you for that.

[manymoretodays]

S'okay.  I copy that reply above.  Very thankful that it is not Hashimoto's, eh?  Crying can be very therapeutic I find. 

[Frogie]

1 minute ago, manymoretodays said:

S'okay.  I copy that reply above.  Very thankful that it is not Hashimoto's, eh?  Crying can be very therapeutic I find. 

Thanks. I'm glad you think crying is therapeutic, because I cry.

 

I answered you on everything else on my thread.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Karma]

Since you just started thyroid, yes, you would feel something if your morning combination was going to have issues. If you can wait 30 minutes before you drink your morning caffeine I think that is advisable, at least initially. When I first started thyroid I drank my normal full caffeine cappuccino that morning and it lit me up like a rocket. Later, once my system acclimated to having a good supply of thyroid it was no longer a problem. 

 

I love Colorado! I live in the front range metro area.

 

Once your vision is resolved you might do some research to see if iodine supplementation might help with your thyroid. I have heard stories of some who were able to improve thyroid function through some diet and supplements. I had antibodies and the only way to get back to feeling well was to suppress my thyroid with a replacement dose. 

 

if anything I have shared has helped you, I am honored. When I came to SA amazing people helped me and my thank you is to try and help others. 

 

Love and light,

Karma

[Frogie]

10 minutes ago, Karma said:

Since you just started thyroid, yes, you would feel something if your morning combination was going to have issues. If you can wait 30 minutes before you drink your morning caffeine I think that is advisable, at least initially. When I first started thyroid I drank my normal full caffeine cappuccino that morning and it lit me up like a rocket. Later, once my system acclimated to having a good supply of thyroid it was no longer a problem. 

 

I love Colorado! I live in the front range metro area.

 

Once your vision is resolved you might do some research to see if iodine supplementation might help with your thyroid. I have heard stories of some who were able to improve thyroid function through some diet and supplements. I had antibodies and the only way to get back to feeling well was to suppress my thyroid with a replacement dose. 

 

if anything I have shared has helped you, I am honored. When I came to SA amazing people helped me and my thank you is to try and help others. 

 

Love and light,

Karma

Karma:

 

I won't drink my coke for at least 30 minutes then until my body adjusts.

 

Once I get glasses, I will do research, but at least fit the time being I'm going to be ok. I'm glad my dr was willing to give me a natural medicine. I told him I would only go on it if he worked with me like he has with my taper. He said no problem.

 

I will be so glad to get back home. We live in a town of 600 and there are no stores. You have to drive 2 1/2 hours to Denver or order things online. It will be nice to be back with family and friends too.

 

You are so kind and considerate. You have helped me a lot and I look forward to you helping me more.

 

Thanks again.

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Frogie]

HI Karma:

 

I just have a quick question.

 

Since I started this Armour thyroid medicine (it's only been what 5-6 days, I think), I'm so tired! I can't hardly stay awake. I'm only on 15mg, the smallest dosage.

 

Is that normal, my body getting used to it, or should I call my dr? I don't have any other symptoms.

 

Thanks for helping me. I really appreciate it!

 

Take care,

Frogie xx

[Frogie]

Hi:

 

 I guess I should have explained it a little better.

 

I'm so tired in the morning, about 30-60 minutes after I take my meds. I'm extremely tired! I can't hardly keep my eyes open.

 

I'm still tired in the afternoon, but not as bad.

 

Thanks again...

 

Take care,

Frogie xx