Moonpie: need help and supporting tapering off of Ativan

[Sleepless]

Hello Moonpie, 

I noticed that you are taking desiccated thyroid medication.  Do you like it/have issues with it?  I may be having an adverse reaction to levothyroxine.

[Moonpie]

Hi Sleepless! Yes I love it.  Have been on it 20 years.  I like n.p.thyroid because they don't reformulate it like they have armor and generic.  Dessicated  t3 and t4 which our body uses both.  Levothyroxin has only t3 and synthroid only t4.  I am not sure if this is okay someone let me know but www.stopthethyroidmadness.com gives a ton of info on dessicated thyroid.  Hope this helps!

[Moonpie]

Thank you! Will definately try it!

[Sleepless]

Hmm..  I may have to try it.  Thanks.

[Moonpie]

Well I had the most horrific Thanksgiving I have ever had.  I stayed at home, not special meal just eggs and toast because of my stomach.  
Severe depression, anxiety, panic attack, hurting muscles, feeling HORRIBLE.  I have been holding my last taper at the end of this week for 15 days.  I lowered my thyroid med with drs. approval and see improvement.  Still anxiety some especially in afternoons.  Was bad and ate some candy always get anxiety after sweets.  As usual struggling to eat and drink enough water.  Still a lot happening in my life that is disruptive. Is my .001 every 4 to 5 days a slow taper?  It has worked well till then end here but some of it could be too much thyroid. I figured it out and I am doing 6 or 7% a month but gradually.  I started at .152 in weight of the pill.  Now at .005.  Feeling very discouraged and exhausted.  I am very concerned about having protracted withdrawal even though I feel I slow tapered (reason I want to check).  I am 67 and I sometime thing is this just age?  Is this the rest of my life.

[Sleepless]

38 minutes ago, Moonpie said:

Well I had the most horrific Thanksgiving I have ever had.  I stayed at home, not special meal just eggs and toast because of my stomach.  
Severe depression, anxiety, panic attack, hurting muscles, feeling HORRIBLE.  I have been holding my last taper at the end of this week for 15 days.  I lowered my thyroid med with drs. approval and see improvement.  Still anxiety some especially in afternoons.  Was bad and ate some candy always get anxiety after sweets.  As usual struggling to eat and drink enough water.  Still a lot happening in my life that is disruptive. Is my .001 every 4 to 5 days a slow taper?  It has worked well till then end here but some of it could be too much thyroid. I figured it out and I am doing 6 or 7% a month but gradually.  I started at .152 in weight of the pill.  Now at .005.  Feeling very discouraged and exhausted.  I am very concerned about having protracted withdrawal even though I feel I slow tapered (reason I want to check).  I am 67 and I sometime thing is this just age?  Is this the rest of my life.

I cannot answer your question in regards to tapering lexapro.  I’m not an administrator.  I do have experience with thyroid medication.  When was the last time you had your FT4, TSH and FT3 checked?

 

@ChessieCat

 

[Moonpie]

I had it checked the end of September.  My levels were within range but at a level that I usually do not do well at and begin to have symptoms.  Rather than jump in and lower it I waited almost 2 months. Since lowering it the symptoms are improving.  It is a roller coaster isn't it!  Thank you for caring and replying.

 

[Sleepless]

Keeping thyroid levels within range can be hard.  My endocrinologist tried to change my medication and I’m still trying to recover.

[Frogie]

1 hour ago, Moonpie said:

Well I had the most horrific Thanksgiving I have ever had.  I stayed at home, not special meal just eggs and toast because of my stomach.  
Severe depression, anxiety, panic attack, hurting muscles, feeling HORRIBLE.  I have been holding my last taper at the end of this week for 15 days.  I lowered my thyroid med with drs. approval and see improvement.  Still anxiety some especially in afternoons.  Was bad and ate some candy always get anxiety after sweets.  As usual struggling to eat and drink enough water.  Still a lot happening in my life that is disruptive. Is my .001 every 4 to 5 days a slow taper?  It has worked well till then end here but some of it could be too much thyroid. I figured it out and I am doing 6 or 7% a month but gradually.  I started at .152 in weight of the pill.  Now at .005.  Feeling very discouraged and exhausted.  I am very concerned about having protracted withdrawal even though I feel I slow tapered (reason I want to check).  I am 67 and I sometime thing is this just age?  Is this the rest of my life.

Hi Moonpie:

 

Don’t get too discouraged with your taper. Lexapro is really hard to get off of, and the last little bit is really the hardest I think from my taper. It took me 4 years to get off of 10 mg. You’ve had a lot of stressors in your life lately also. Thanksgiving was probably stressful being alone. Even if you don’t “feel” it all, your subconscious does. It’s not your age. You are very active and a busy person. How are your numbers with your thyroid? Maybe you reduced your thyroid med just a little fast or more than you should of? Maybe try holding another week or so and see how you’re doing. If that doesn’t solve the issue, hold a little longer then taper a little slower and hopefully you’ll see/feel some improvement. Give Bill a big fur baby hug from me. Keep me posted on how you are doing! I think you’re doing great! Almost there!

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

 

P.S. I had all of those symptoms and then some. Just know it’s wd and you’re going to be ok 😊

Edited December 1, 2020 by Frogie

[Moonpie]

Thank you Frogie. No I really waited too long to reduce my thyroid.  Since I have done it I feel better. Thank you for your support and encouragement as always.  You are  treasure.  So happy you had a window Thanksgiving!   Hugs from me and Bill!  

[Moonpie]

 I have a question, what is considered intrusive thoughts? Is that thoughts to harm yourself? I would really like to know. I have thoughts it upset me and derail me are those intrusive thoughts?

[Shep]

Yes, that sounds like intrusive thoughts, which are very common during withdrawal. Please see:

 

Withdrawal causing repetitive or intrusive thoughts, rumination, and increased panic?

 

During the day, distraction can be helpful. Mindfulness techniques, such as letting your thoughts pass without engaging in them, can be helpful. In the evenings, you may want to search YouTube for guided meditations dealing with intrusive thoughts to help ease you into sleep. This is a good one and there thousands more out there on YouTube:

 

Guided Meditation for Detachment From Over-Thinking (Anxiety / OCD / Depression) video (42 minutes)

 

You may also find this post comforting:

 

Benzo Lies That Have Been Busted

 

 

[Moonpie]

Thank you for your reply and help Shep. I will check those links out.  I am still shocked at being on such a tiny dose how this is affecting me!  And I can't help but think how will it be when I have off.  Holding my . 004 weight dose another week and that will make it a month.  You and everyone here has been such a support and encouragement!  Merry Christmas!

 

[Moonpie]

Well after 2 years of tapering Lexapro I am nearing the end. When I got to .005 in weight I held it for 21 days as I did my .004 also. I held my .00 3 for 7 days and everything went well and I went ahead and did .00 2 for 7 days. All went well.  I am now at .001. I'm experiencing a little bit of difficulty extreme fatigue, trouble sleeping,  muscle aches and anxiety at times. I have only been at .001 for 2 days and am wondering if I should go back to .002 to until symptoms to subside. I've gone so slow and been so careful all the stories of protracted withdrawal scare me. I wonder with feeling this way would just .001 in weight (I started at .152.) And it being such a small amount, am I going to have problems when I go to zero.  It has been a long journey. After this I have one more medication to go, BuSpar.  I plan to do it slowly by weight as that  is what has worked for me it looks like it will take a year also. Not that I want to rush, but I do have a tooth I've been holding off on I really need to get fixed. But I am going to go slow as with the Ativan and Lexapro. Could use some encouragement right now.  I also just realized I am two weeks away from what would have been my 49th wedding anniversary. My husband died 7 years ago

[Altostrata]

Hello, moonpie, congratulations at getting down to such a low dose. How many milligrams of escitalopram does that equate to?

 

You might want to take that tiny dose for a month or so before going off completely.

 

Many people find these to be helpful:

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

You might try a low dose of one at a time to see what it does for you.

[Moonpie]

Thank you for your reply Altostrata.  That was 10 mg of Lexapro. I am on both of those that you mentioned I think I may need to take more magnesium. I think it's strange I'm feeling so down and somewhat hopeless after coming so far.

[Shep]

8 hours ago, Moonpie said:

I also just realized I am two weeks away from what would have been my 49th wedding anniversary. My husband died 7 years ago

 

7 hours ago, Moonpie said:

I think it's strange I'm feeling so down and somewhat hopeless after coming so far.

 

I think it's quite human what you're feeling. Sounds like there's some grief in the mix, Moonpie. Now that you're no longer masking your emotions with drugs, you're feeling loss. 

 

That's okay. Sometimes healing from these drugs is painful, but it's necessary. Just like the ability to feel pain and loss is greater off these drugs, so is the joy. That's something you have to look forward to. 

[Moonpie]

Thank you Shep, you are right.  Everything is so gradual that it is hard to see the progression of changes.  I would have never dreamed of the changes these meds made in my mind and body. It is so complicated, all the symptoms can feelings they bring about. Then to add grief to the mix stirs the pot a little more.  What is the norm (feeling unpleasant emotions) became the abnormal somewhere along the way. I am sorry for all your suffering you went through, but I am thankful for your caring and generous spirit here to help others like me.  

[Moonpie]

@altostrata @shep Why does withdrawl cause cortisol spikes.  This is getting rough and I have fallen into "'is this my thyroid again?" That's making this harder.  Do I test do I wait? I thought this would be like the last dose of ativan.  Just step off and get better. Trying to push through and keep working.   Thanks as always fir being there

[Leo1983]

Hi. 

 

Your drug signature is really difficult to follow, apologies. 

 

Is this trouble your having from theLexapro taper? Just this was the drug i was on.

[Moonpie]

Yes!  It is Lexapro

 

[Leo1983]

I can only offer my sympathy. It is just so wrong the way we suffer. 

 

I had awful morning cortisol from this drug. I still wake now and im filled with it for no reason. It has dropped in intensity but its awful way to start your day. 

 

There is a link for dealing with Cortisol spikes on the site.Also there is a essay from Brassmonkey about been at ZERO in the taper.

 

I cold turkeyed this drug and it caused mayhem. 

 

 

[Moonpie]

Leo1983, thank you so much for replying!  You offered more than sympathy, you gave empathy.  I am so sorry to hear you are suffering too.  I cannot even imagine what you are facing after going cold turkey.  It makes me sad how everyone suffers but having the understanding and support of others facing the same thing makes a big difference.  Thank you for telling me about Brassmonkey's link,  I actually saved it and forgot about it.  And it wasn't that long ago.  Sometimes the brain doesn't function as it should in all of this. I pray you have a window soon.  Hang in there!  

[Moonpie]

Saturday February 20th after two years and twenty days of tapering, I took my last dose of Lexapro. I am now Lexapro free. A bit anxious I will admit. Now to let my body rest before going on to tapering off my last drug Buspar.

[Shep]

Glad you're done with the Lexapro. You're definitely making progress. How are you feeling overall? 

[Moonpie]

Thank you for asking and caring Shep.  Ok till last night.  Was exhausted all day then it hit in the afternoon. Tight chest, trouble breathing, nightmares, strong anxiety sometimes even to the point of terror.  Not much sleep.  I guess my puppy picked up on it because he was up and down all night.  I didn't expect it to hit this quick.  Was really hoping there would be little or none.   I never had this much trouble tapering off the other meds.  Praying there is no protracted withdrawal since I went slow.

 

[Shep]

It could just be your nervous system needing time to settle down since your recent (and last) decrease. Hopefully you'll see improvements soon. A puppy sounds like a great distraction. 

[Moonpie]

@Shep. I am having a really hard time.  Saturday I will have been off lexapro for 3 weeks. Last dose .001 by weight and held it 1 month before jumping off.  It hit Tuesday night -5 hours of terror, strong anxiety, nausua, tight chest, racing negative intrusive thoughts and fearful.  It finally eased and i was able to sleep some.   I fear not only of what the thoughts bring but of what I am feeling. Yesterday i got labs back and my fasting sugar was 110.  That sent it over the top.  Talking to my daughter helped but today i am struggling again. Thyroid labs were fine.  I get the shakes and am having trouble eating and not eating much due to upset stomach.   The anxiety is with me all day.   Having trouble functioning and i have to work  tonight and a long job Friday.  Will that set me back further? This seems so extreme for such a long taper and a small last dose.  I have wondered if i can be off.  I dont want to go back after all this work and time but have to function and work I want relief!! And wonder how long can this go on!  One bright spot is i have been able to sleep at night 5-6 hours.  Wake up with anxiety at 7.  Very discouraged. Wonder if i will ever be ok.  I am also exhausted and concerned about working. I clean houses and offices.

[Shep]

20 hours ago, Moonpie said:

Yesterday i got labs back and my fasting sugar was 110.  That sent it over the top.

 

Moonpie, has your diet changed? These drugs have side effects and withdrawal effects that can make us crave carbs and sugar. That can also trigger waves. 

 

If nothing has changed, it's likely just a wave. I'm no expert on fasting sugar levels, but I looked this up and found this: A fasting blood sugar level of 99 mg/dL or lower is normal, 100 to 125 mg/dL indicates you have prediabetes, and 126 mg/dL or higher indicates you have diabetes.

 

Perhaps focusing on setting up a healthy diet will give your anxious thoughts something healthy to do. 

 

Looking at this as a wake-up call for action instead of a reason for panic can help shift you from learned helplessness into someone who is strong, can do her research, and come up with a plan. Try to go in that direction and see if you feel better. That's what led you to get off these drugs when tens of millions of other people haven't figured it out, so you definitely can do this. 

 

20 hours ago, Moonpie said:

One bright spot is i have been able to sleep at night 5-6 hours.  Wake up with anxiety at 7.  Very discouraged. Wonder if i will ever be ok.  I am also exhausted and concerned about working. I clean houses and offices.

 

That's great you're sleeping better. Perhaps bring in some non-drug coping skills to deal with the anxiety. 

 

The exhaustion will fade in time.  I know how hard it is to work throughout withdrawal, but these waves will get less intense and shorter over time. So you definitely have a lot to look forward to. 

 

Are you able to schedule a day off from time to time to rest? 

[Moonpie]

Thank you for responding Shep,  I have had a day off to rest.  Symptoms are not as extreme and have improved.  My Dr. is not concerned about the reading.  I have had a lot of stress this year and have been not been drinking much water or anything.  I eat clean but not enough of the right things, veggies, fiber, etc.  Also I have researched and found that Lexapro can cause some insulin resistance and slow metabolism.  I look back on my labs and before I started my 2nd year of taper my glucose was normal every time.  She feels it may be all that has been going on this last year.  I am slim,  have no family history, rarely eat processed foods and very minimal sugar (coconut palm sugar and honey). Going to focus on more water, fiber and eating more veggies.  I am better, not that extreme when I posted, but can still feel symptoms, jittery, tight chest.  I struggle with the coping skills when it gets as extreme as it did the other night.  I find myself just wanting relief.  But what gave me relief in the past is now the problem. In desperation I was even tempted to ask the dr. for a few Xanax or Ativan for those moments but am afraid to.  I have come so far, over 4 years of tapering off of two drugs.  I guess when it gets really tough you just suffer it out, right?.  I know this is messing with my mind and thoughts. When it is bad my mind races with horrific frightening, catastrophic thoughts and I battle them.  I know you have experienced far worse than this and you made it.  Being a lone makes it hard too. 

[Moonpie]

@Shep thank you for your comment about not being a victim.  That has given me a lot of food for thought.  I can see how the suffering and struggle of this taper has made me feel like one in many areas.  

I am still having withdrawal but not as extreme.  The other day in the midst of it my mind flashed to about a week ago when I had a window, a very different one.  For the moment I felt joy, hope and saw a positive future.   When I remembered this I realized we need to remember the windows not the waves. I know this is hard because the waves can be long, hard and overwhelming. At in the beginning there are more of those than the windows.  But the windows are the truth, reality, what is really going to happen. That's what we need to try to focus on when we are going through this.

Also SHAME ON ME!  I may be having this difficult time but it is not the first one in this journey.  But there will be a point it is the last one with this drug.  I AM OFF no more tapering , no more holding reductions, it is done!  2 years and 20 days of hard work and I made it.  Lord forgive for not seeing the victory and only focusing on this uncomfortable time!

[ChessieCat]

You might find these helpful.  I've listened to them for my own pain issues and much of what is in there is non drug coping techniques (useful for pain and also non-pain symptoms) like SA encourages members to learn and use:

 

Living with Chronic Illness or Pain - Happiness Isn't Brain Surgery Episode 20a

Living with Chronic Illness or Pain - Happiness Isn't Brain Surgery Episode 20b

Living with Chronic Illness or Pain - Happiness Isn't Brain Surgery Episode 20c

 

Nonpharmacological Interventions for Pain CBT for Chronic Pain Video

[Moonpie]

43 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

You might find these helpful.  I've listened to them for my own pain issues and much of what is in there is non drug coping techniques (useful for pain and also non-pain symptoms) like SA encourages members to learn and use:

 

Living with Chronic Illness or Pain - Happiness Isn't Brain Surgery Episode 20a

Living with Chronic Illness or Pain - Happiness Isn't Brain Surgery Episode 20b

Living with Chronic Illness or Pain - Happiness Isn't Brain Surgery Episode 20c

 

Nonpharmacological Interventions for Pain CBT for Chronic Pain Video

 

[Moonpie]

@ChessieCat thank you so much!   I will listen to them!

[Altostrata]

Moonpie, what have you been doing for exercise?

 

I see you tagged me in Thelongestroadhome's topic. If you want to ask a question about your taper, please do it here, in your topic. Thanks.

[Moonpie]

@Altostrata Sorry for the misplaced tag.  Still not savvy on the website. I am better now, the withdrawal is not as strong. I clean houses and offices which is a lot of exercise. I was walking my dog 14 blocks a day until this hit and bad weather.  At what age were you when you started tapering?  Thank you for your reply