Moonpie: need help and supporting tapering off of Ativan

[Moonpie]

I want to give an update.  I don't want to just post when the bottom is falling out.  I know when I scroll through I need to find some hopeful positive moments in peoples journey.   Since my 3rd week of being off Lexapro (started my 4th Saturday, hard to believe it seems longer) my withdrawal symptoms have been crazy, changing within even 30 minutes to an hour.  Some I have never even had.  I realize my poor body and brain is working hard and balancing and trying to heal.  Sunday I had a BIG window.  I had practically no symptoms, my mind was clear no obsessive crazy thoughts, energy, a lot.  I didn't feel perfect but I didn't have anxiety and they tight chest.  I taught Sunday School, kept nursery, and went to the store.  

I should have but at that moment I realized how very much this affects my thinking. And of course how we are thinking can amp up symptoms. I was worried about my blood sugar or foot issues.  We will see but I truly think it is the med and tapering that is causing these.  All this was gone Sunday.  When I started having some withdrawal Sunday night, it was slight but I notice my thinking trying to go back to that dark place.  I just kept refusing the thoughts. 

My blood sugar which not as major as I was panicking over started the past year on my last year of Lexapro taper.  My feet the last month I was holding my last dose.  I believe these meds to many things to our bodies that may not be documented and deals with how very different we each are.   The are so unpredictable in many ways.

After each window I would think, "It's over!"  I realize now it may not be, there may be another wave.  That helped me because thinking every window was the end (and I know someday it will be) only increased my anxiety when I new wave comes.  So I am going to enjoy the windows no matter how small and like I said before try to keep that my focus.  And when or if a wave comes I will just go through it, because another window will come.

Today I have some anxiety, exhaustion, tight chest,  Uncomfortable but not unbearable. Still not much appetite.  So i am making sure what I put in my mouth gives me the most nutritional bang for the bite.  I have lost 4 pounds last week.  I have 2 jobs today, and as a Christian I pray for God's strength. 

Bach's Rescue Remedy has helped( thank you @Frogie for the suggestion and all your wise help and encouragement!)

When I was having really bad days,  I would turn a Bible audio on reading the Psalms.  It helped too. It didn't take it away but took the edge off.

I am healing.  It's not fun and yes I wish it was quick but that's not my call.  It feels strange and good not to take that capsule at night.  I am refusing to think about how long it will be till my body is okay or when it will all be over.  All I have to deal with and can deal with is right now, this moment this day.  No that's not easy sometime, and yes it is hard work not to jump head to a place I have not been and have no clue what it holds, BUT it keeps things from being worse than that are.  I hope this helps someone.  This is today and I purpose to keep this my path.  Hang I their everyone!  Even though the times may be hard, we ARE moving forward with each taper, with each day off.  And doing those things, forward is the ONLY way we are going no matter what is happening at the moment.  

Everyone can remind me of this if I slip later!  

 

 

[Aleena]

Hope and pray you get out of this roller coaster soon. I am also tapering Lexapro. Can you tell me how you counted doses lower than 0.1mg.

[Moonpie]

20 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Moonpie, what have you been doing for exercise?

 

I see you tagged me in Thelongestroadhome's topic. If you want to ask a question about your taper, please do it here, in your 

@Altostrata thank you for replying. I am in some windows now and doing better. I clean houses and offices several days a week which is a lot of activity and I was walking my dog 14 blocks a day until I started having this hard time and the weather got bad

[Moonpie]

@Aleena I did it by weight with a jeweler scale, by crushing the tablets weighing them and putting them in capsules. My starting weight with the Lexapro for my pills was. .152.  I did find that around .002 to or .001 in weight that I would have to put a small piece of Lexapro on the scale as added weight otherwise it wouldn't register. I hope this helps.  Please please go slow. I did that  of one every four days sometimes I even held that 2, 3 even four times more to stabilize. In the beginning I got my panties in a wad about it taking so long, but I realize the longer I take the less I suffer and the quicker I will heal. I will end up accomplishing the same thing but in a better place. This is my second drug to come off this way and I'm glad did it. Slowly giving my mind and body time to heal. It wasn't a walk in the park, and there were hard times but they passed quickly and I was able to work and continue to function. Try to keep your mind focused on your goal of getting off of the Lexapro. Not when you get off. Hang in there. You will make it.

[Moonpie]

Update  It has now been a little over  1 month since I stopped Lexapro.  I have had 7 windows, yes I count them and am very thankful for them.  I have days where there isn't anxiety but there are other symptoms, then I have had some bad nights where anxiety kept me up most of the night.  Symptoms are about like a taper, some a little worse.  Intrusive thoughts, queasy stomach, lack of appetite, anxiety, obsessive about health and symptoms, tight chest, trouble breathing, (actually woke up one night gasping for air), depression, tired. Just a feeling of not being ok. One I do not see how it can be blamed on withdrawal but who knows what this drug does to our bodies. I have to go back an reread my own post from when I had the good 4 day window.  The more I suffer the more muddled my thinking gets but I keep reminding myself that it is the med doing this.  

A bright note - there are several but this one stands out.  I have a house a clean once a week, it is 5 hours of straight work no breaks.  It is so big I do upstairs one week and downstairs the next.  I am usually not only exhausted that night and the next day but also have anxiety.  I did it last week and was a normal tired, took a nap and walked my dog his 14 blocks, and slept well that night.  Big difference.

I also keep remembering this is not part a taper this is my body healing.  So glad I went slow but am ready for it to be over.  

[Moonpie]

Update.  6 weeks out off of Lexapro.  It hasn't been easy, but it hasn't been a nightmare. Windows are still there but not as pronounced, still thankful for them.  This is different than my taper as I haven't had complete stabilization.  I have lost 6 pounds and didn't need to.  I have been in another car accident, this one was my fault, the boy was in my blind spot changing lanes, flat tire and freezer went out all in less than a week.  Not bad things but stressful. Actually handled it ok.  Symptoms:  mild anxiety all day, sometimes increasing, neck pain, waking early in the morning, (sleep is pretty much okay most of the time, wake a lot during the night), tired, depressed, anhedonia, feeling of no purpose,  no appetite but I am eating and very healthy, sometimes queasy stomach,  sometimes anxiety after a meal, brain fog, some obsessive thoughts about health.

I did find a post where Altostrata said that her blood sugar was somewhat elevated after being on the meds but resolved itself.  That helped some.  I was EXTREMELY stressed the day of an before my blood draw, and I know that can raise sugars some.  It wasn't that much over and  like I said the Dr. isn't concerned, will retest in a couple of months. Trying not to obsess over it.  

I need to taper Buspar so I can get this tooth fixed, that is 3 years out from the dentist saying do it ASAP.  If I go like I did with my others .001 in weight every 4 days it will be about another year.  Kinda afraid to push and and do more.  I was planning on starting the 1st of May but might wait till the first of June.  If I could I would wait longer but don't' want complications with my tooth.  @Shep will it be okay to go ahead and start my taper if I am not 100% stabilized?  I sure thought I would be further along than this by now. 

[Moonpie]

@brassmonkey I started keeping a journal of symptoms and experiences when came to SA.  It has been very helpful.  I just passed the 6 week mark of going off Lexapro after a 2 year and 20 day taper.  (My last dose was .001 in weight (starting weight .152, and I held it a month before going to zero.)  Out of that time I have had 5 very bad days - very bad.  In the beginning my was having some windows.  I actually had a 4 day one at the 1 month mark. I am noticing that I am having fewer and fewer windows and while not always horrific, my WD symptoms are stronger,  but intolerable but still affecting me.   This started about 10 days ago.  Before that they were there sometimes a little stronger but not like this.  I am careful with my food, trying to get enough rests, and everything advised. I seem to have quit making progress.  What could be wrong?  I hate the thought of reinstating after such a short time and going so far. I feel like I am giving in, and will reinstatement just put me through all this again when I go off.  Just just toughing it out hinder my healing?    I am not stabilizing like I did with tapers or of course thought I would.   Feeling very abnormal right now.

[brassmonkey]

Making the jump to "0" doesn't mean that WD is over, it just means that the drug is no longer directly affecting how you feel. For almost everyone making the jump there are going to continue to be swings in symptoms for several months after stopping. This is quite normal and unless they become debilitating, nothing to worry about. Toughing it out is going to be the best way to handle it. Each wave should leave you in a better place once it resolves. If things get too bad it is possible to take a "rescue dose" by dipping a toothpick into the powder or liquid and taking an extremely small amount.

 

If you haven't read this, check it out: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/23081-are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take/?tab=comments#comment-492502

 

[Moonpie]

Thank you @brassmonkey   I also think I am also comparing It to my Ativan taper. When I took my last micro dose I felt good and had minor and short lived  symptoms. Maybe also I have just written my script of how I thought it would be.  When I was tapering my waves didn't last this long and few were this extreme. I am shocked at the duration and intensity. 

Are you talking about  something like Xanax for the tiny amount or the Lexapro for an emergency  rescue. I know my doctor would give me Xanax,  and I have seriously been tempted to ask some for the times when  it was so extreme and has lasted for most of the night or day. Thank goodness there haven't many of those.   I could not function all day. Just lay in bed.  The anxiety was horrific.

I have given that long hard thought and consideration about getting some Xanax from my dr. to take during those times but I don't want to throw a monkey wrench into the healing I've already done. Would the small amount you mentioned have that affect on my nervous system?

I still have Buspar to taper. As I have posted before I have a tooth that was supposed to be fixed 3 years ago that cannot be done because of a reaction it caused from he deadening.  My dentist told me it scared him so badly he would not work on me till I was off all of this.  I cannot afford sedation dentistry, nor would I even want to try it right now.  So that is my reason for wanting to go ahead and taper the Buspar is soon as possible. But I won't until I have stabilized for at least a month.      

I did have a window to day of relief after I ate, which usually gives me anxiety. I took a nap. Getting up and getting around seems to have made things a little worse but it is more than bearable unlike the last 2 days,  But I have to go to work tonight so no more laying down.   I appreciate your support and advice  so very much.

 

[brassmonkey]

 

The rescue dose would be a tiny bit of the Lexapro. I would stay away from any other drugs. They may help a bit but there is a really good chance they won't help and possibly even cause bigger problems.

 

Sorry to hear about the tooth. I just had a root canal I've been putting off for several years. No problems, but I'm not a fan of dental work.

[Moonpie]

I feel for you brassmonkey dental work is no fun.  Even if it ends up having to be pulled I want my dentist of 15 years to do it!!

 

[Moonpie]

I just had this thought.  How many remember a game called "Going on a Bear Hunt" you played as a child?  You sit and rhythmically slap your hands on your knees.  Through the game you go through certain scenery, and the players chant, "Coming to a forest,  can't go under it, can't go over it, can't go round it, have to go through it."  This reminds me of getting off these meds and going through everything we face.  We want to find any way than going through it but that is what we have to do.  Maybe a silly post but it rung true with me.

[Frogie]

1 hour ago, Moonpie said:

I just had this thought.  How many remember a game called "Going on a Bear Hunt" you played as a child?  You sit and rhythmically slap your hands on your knees.  Through the game you go through certain scenery, and the players chant, "Coming to a forest,  can't go under it, can't go over it, can't go round it, have to go through it."  This reminds me of getting off these meds and going through everything we face.  We want to find any way than going through it but that is what we have to do.  Maybe a silly post but it rung true with me.

Moonpie:

 

With that strong, positive attitude, you will get through that forrest and come out to the sunshine on the other side.

 

Take care,

 Frogie xx

 

 

[Moonpie]

Thank you Frogie!  Always my cheerleader!❤

[Moonpie]

I thought this might help someone else.  I realized the other day my multiple vitamin is way low in Calcium and magnesium.  I had some powdered calcium carbonate.  I took it for 2 days.  Both days I felt like death on a cracker.  I assumed it was WD, it  was debilitating. I couldn't sleep but just lay in bed so very weak and past exhausted.  Then I realized it had been since I took the calcium.  I looked up the side affects and there it was!  Loss of appetite (which I had worse than usual) and fatigue!!!  Who would have thought.  I haven't taken any today and feel much better.  Crazy how supplements can affect us. Not sure if the sensitivity is because WD or that is the way it will affect me.  Not trying anymore until I my nervous system settles down!

[Dee12h]

@Moonpie, how are you doing now?

[Moonpie]

Hi Dee12h!

I am actually really doing good.  Still some symptoms but nothing unbearable or too difficult to handle. Many good days and I  actually felt normal for a few days last week , emotionally and physically. Something I have not felt in years. It caught me by surprise!  At 4 months out when I start my Buspar taper I am going to check in and post everything.  I have been off of Ativan almost for over 2 1/2 years now and May 20th was 3 months off Lexapro.  Thank you for asking.  How are you!  

[Shep]

9 hours ago, Moonpie said:

I am actually really doing good.  Still some symptoms but nothing unbearable or too difficult to handle. Many good days and I  actually felt normal for a few days last week , emotionally and physically. Something I have not felt in years.

 

Excellent update, Moonpie! Very glad to read you're doing so well.

[Moonpie]

Thank you Shep! 

[Dee12h]

I’m doing ok. It’s encouraging to follow people who are already off completely. My main thing is insomnia when I taper. Your story caught my eye bc I also have that balancing act between unwanted drug side effects & WD symptoms. Glad to hear you’re improving still!

[Moonpie]

I have battled insomnia and still do sometimes. But I'm having more nights I sleep better than not. I still have waves and windows.  In a wave right now but nothing like it used to be.   We will get there. Hang in there.   You've already come a long way! Just make sure you go as slow as you need to. Stopping and holding  when you have WD symptoms.  Don't move forward tapering until they subside.  You can do this!

  

[Moonpie]

@ShepI know that WD symptoms are a wild card but I can't quit wondering if I did something to cause them.  I had been really tired several days.  Saturday after I posted, around 9:00 pm I felt very agitated and had a bad crying spell. I started having anxiety and a tight chest.  It grew worse and from 9:30 pm till around 4 a.m.  I was in constant anxiety and panic.  I felt queasy, and although I was laying down I felt very confused in my thoughts and even felt like I would pass out.  Around 4 am it subsided and I was able to sleep.  The next day I still had somewhat of a tight chest, mild anxiety, weakness, and no appetite..  I was totally exhausted and couldn't eat. I slept ALOT which was a blessing.  Monday I was much better and had some anxiety around bedtime but was able to go to sleep.  Today I did good until around 3 pm and have some mild anxiety and tight chest.  Tried to eat a little.  I have been eating lunch late due to work. After eating it eased some.  The only thing I did different Saturday was take a 1/2 tsp of MSM mixed in water to help with my neck pain.  I don't know if that set it off or it is just part of the deal.  I have episodes two other times since stopping Lexapro in February.  One was in March and one in April. This one was not as bad as those but very difficult.  They all seem to be almost a month apart.  I have started my 4th month of stopping Lexapro.  What do you think?  MSM or just part of the journey. If it was the MSM I don't want to try it again.  Thanks for your help.  This WD is like the little girl with the curl in the middle of her forehead.  When it's good it's really good but when it's bad . . . .  I do see a lot of improvement  and have experienced way worse in the past. While I had some trouble falling asleep last night I am sleeping sounder and better when I do. I also noticed that right before this happened I started having constipation again and I know the gut is a good serotonin indicator.  Can serotonin bounce around as you recover?

[Shep]

It's likely a mix of a lot of things - stress, low blood sugar from not eating regularly, possibly the MSM. 

 

Please do as much self care as you can until this wave passes. 

[Moonpie]

Thank you Shep.

[Moonpie]

Well in a little over a week I will be at the 4 month mark since I quit Lexapro.  Not what I had hoped for doing such a slower careful taper, but better than it was in the beginning.  I have had some very good days (which I am very thankful for) about every 5 - 7 days.  After the good day it seems everything starts to build until the next one.  Sometimes I will have a few hours of relief in a day only to go back. Biggest symptom is a very tight chest , queasy stomach, anxious, and sometimes dizzy and off balance.  The tight chest feels like a vice.  I try resting and relaxing but it doesn't seem to help much.  Trouble sleeping of course during the wave.  Even on good nights sleep is not completely restful, but at least I sleep!   I feel  a little gun shy wondering when it will hit, how will the night be . . .  

@Shep I do not want to start the Buspar taper until I am stable.  I am concerned about how long that will be as I have that tooth that needs fixing.  How stable do I need to be before I start?  Zero WD symptoms?  It seems like a vicious circle as that will put me on Buspar even longer, (it be almost 5 years now) and that will make it harder to come off of.   Don't get me wrong I don't want to jump the gun and do it before I need to just adding more fuel to my fire.  I know I can't wait the year or two I hear people saying before they are okay because of the tooth.  I am also wondering if the bouncing back and forth between waves and windows means it could be a while.  It reminds me of the times I went to the ocean and saw the waves coming in and hitting the beach and going back out. Thanks as always for the help.   Oh I was thinking the other day,  so many times meds are prescribed for a "chemical imbalance in the brain"  that cannot be proven or  tested, then meds are given that DO cause chemical imbalance.  

[Moonpie]

Today has been so very strange.  The WD symptoms are bouncing around moment to moment and also in intensity.  Tight chest, funny weak feeling I can't describe in my chest, anxiety.  Getting a little scared.  I wonder if my severe neck pain doesn't have to do with this too.  I have had crying spells the last 2 days - I realize I am probably grieving the loss of my husband.  While that isn't strange, his sadiversary was yesterday.  I looked back and in my journal from 2016 after I went on meds and this is the first time I have had a really bad time on the date.  I am thinking that the drugs numbed me and now I am grieving where they stopped the process.  WD and grieving, not a good mix.  Feeling very down and alone

[Dee12h]

So sorry. 😟

[Shep]

On 6/11/2021 at 6:47 PM, Moonpie said:

@Shep I do not want to start the Buspar taper until I am stable.  I am concerned about how long that will be as I have that tooth that needs fixing.  How stable do I need to be before I start?  Zero WD symptoms?  It seems like a vicious circle as that will put me on Buspar even longer, (it be almost 5 years now) and that will make it harder to come off of. 

 

This post may be helpful:

 

Withdrawal Normal

 

Since the tooth is a medical concern, you may not wish to wait until you have zero withdrawal symptoms. If you're in a lot of pain from the tooth that needs to be fixed, you'll have to weigh that, as well. The withdrawal from Buspar may not be as bad as continuing to wait to have the tooth fixed. Just something to consider, since your dentist won't fix the tooth until you're off the drug. 

 

Would he be willing to do the dental work when you're on a reduced dose? Like before you get to zero? 

 

On 6/12/2021 at 7:53 PM, Moonpie said:

While that isn't strange, his sadiversary was yesterday.  I looked back and in my journal from 2016 after I went on meds and this is the first time I have had a really bad time on the date.  I am thinking that the drugs numbed me and now I am grieving where they stopped the process.  WD and grieving, not a good mix.  Feeling very down and alone

 

I'm sorry you're feeling so down and alone, but the fact that you're now able to grieve is a really good sign that you're healing. We mere mortals are SUPPOSED to grieve when we're sad.

 

Hang in there, Moonpie. It really sounds like you're making progress, even if the progress is painful. Do as much self care as you can. 

 

[Moonpie]

@Dee12h Thank you. ❤️

[Moonpie]

@Shep Thank you for response and encouragement.  It really helps.  I have not had pain yet but the Buspar taper will take 10 months if I don't have to do any holds for WD.  So I don't want to end up with an urgent situation.  He will not do a partial because of how bad and dangerous the reaction was.  

My concern is will tapering the Buspar blow me out of the ball park with WD since my body is still trying to heal?  I just want to kind of know what to expect.   I was planning now to wait till July 20 or August 20, that would be 5 and 6 months off.  Buying myself more time.  Also do you think continuing tapering as I did with the Ativan and Lexapro, .001 every 4 days unless needing to hold?  This has been so rough after I was at zero with the Lexapro.  Going off Ativan was nothing like this.  I have no clue what kind of "animal" Buspar is.  I have been on it 5 years now with tapering the others.   Thank you for your direction and advice!

[Shep]

On 6/15/2021 at 10:33 PM, Moonpie said:

My concern is will tapering the Buspar blow me out of the ball park with WD since my body is still trying to heal?  I just want to kind of know what to expect. 

 

Sorry, we can't predict the future of any taper, all we can do is suggest small reductions to test the water. I wouldn't go into catastrophic thinking. A lot of the groundwork in learning non-drug coping and self care is already in progress from your earlier tapers, so you may actually have an easier experience. I would approach it with that mindset and see how you do when you feel stable enough to start the Buspar taper. 

[Moonpie]

Thank you @Shep  Tomorrow will be 4 months off Lexapro.  Hard to believe. WD symptoms seem to be milder. Learning (I think) to deal with.  Can't wait to feel good again.  It has been a long journey but worth it.

[Moonpie]

Well for the most part I feel I am doing good.  While the waves are not severe as the were in the past they are still intense in other ways. 

One of my biggest symptoms is SEVERE neck pain. I've searched and seen many have this too.  It gets so bad I don't  have hardly any range of motion left to right. It feels like some one stuck steel rods down the middle and sides of my neck.  My chiropractor can't find anything physical causing it. It is worse after I sit and at night in bed.  I am very thankful for how far I have come.  The windows are shorter than the waves right now but I  know that will get better.

I was reading threads on L-theanine last night.  Many years back my cortisol levels were in the double digit where they should have been in the single.  My doctor had me get a supplement called "Sleep Tonight".  It took a few weeks to get it down to normal.  I have found since going off the Lexapro my body tolerates even less of foods and supplements.  Well the last few days have been rough so I thought I would try it. I only took 1/2 a pill to test it.  I slept better than I have in a while!  Plus I noticed that my neck pain was not as bad. I am thinking being able to relax. With all we are going through I know we tense up and many times that is carried in the neck and shoulders.  It has other things but the main one is l-theanine.   I am going to try it again tonight and the next few days then depending on how things go, I may try a whole pill.  The bottle says you can take up to two. In the past it has been rare I have needed to do that for not being able to sleep.  Will report back in a few days.  Woke up to a window today!  Yea!!!

 

[Shep]

Thanks for letting us know about your experience using  l-theanine.  

 

If you're not already doing so, you may want to try gentle yoga stretches for shoulders and neck. You can find great resources on YouTube. 

[Moonpie]

Thank you @Shep I will look into that.  I'm going to throw a question out there to see if anybody knows the answer. I just thought of it the other day.  Since the waves mean it is a sign our body is working on  healing, when we take things like magnesium or l-theanine or anything that helps the symptoms  are we hindering that healing?

[Hanna72]

Hi @Moonpie

44 minutes ago, Moonpie said:

Since the waves mean it is a sign our body is working on  healing, when we take things like magnesium or l-theanine or anything that helps the symptoms  are we hindering that healing?

I don’t think it hinders our healing, in fact I think it helps with healing. The more support our nervous system gets and stability, the more healing can happen I believe. Just as with using coping skills. When our nervous system is fragile I find it has to make more effort in calming down. So if we benefit from magnesium for example, I think its helping our system in a good way, and more healing can happen.

That’s my experience.

18 hours ago, Moonpie said:

Woke up to a window today

That’s awesome, hope more windows will come your way.

Best wishes to you.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Hanna72