Moonpie: need help and supporting tapering off of Ativan

[Moonpie]

Thank you @Hanna72.  You answered my question!  

[Moonpie]

Decided I am going to try l-theanine.  Has anyone used the powder vs. a capsule from?  What brands have been used?  Looking back on the threads there seems to be mostly positive  Does anyone know anything about magnesium l-threonate or have any experience with it?  I read its unique rapid brain absorption can boost brain levels by 15%.  I hate spending more money and it possibly not working but I really need some help. And like @Hanna72 says if it helps support my healing it is a win win.  

[Shep]

@MoonpieThere's some discussion on this over on the magnesium thread. I did a search within that thread and found these posts:

 

Search - Magnesium I-threonate

 

Just a thought - you recently started using  l-theanine. I wouldn't add anything else just yet. Give yourself a few weeks to see how the  l-theanine works out. One issue we see quite regularly is folks adding in too many supplements and then having problems. At that point, you don't know which supplement is causing what. And sometimes using too many supplements can turn paradoxical. 

 

Once you have a solid baseline with the I-theanine, then perhaps slowly add in a bit of the magnesium I-threonate. 

[Moonpie]

Thank you @Shep.  I haven't I haven't started using it yet, I'm just thinking about it. That's why I wanted to get input of brands and things that others have used.  I am very very cautious with even foods being added.  I go back and forth about trying it.  I am a bit of a "cowardly lion" right now about adding anything new.  Lol

[Shep]

No worries, @MoonpieI was a "cowardly lion" until one or two years off everything before I would try supplements. I think being the cowardly lion of supplements is a good thing. 

[Moonpie]

I am not sure but it looks like I may need to go ahead with my tooth, still praying about it.  God has miraculously provided the funds.  I am VERY anxious about being put out with being in withdrawal and how I am so sensitive to SO MUCH. Any advice?  This withdrawal is very confusing with the jumping around of emotions and symptoms, waves and windows. Everything is much more erratic than it was the first couple of months.  Better in many many ways but very erratic.  Any suggestions? 

Right now my main symptoms are anxiety, tight chest, sometimes depression, fatigue and weakness.  I know my anxiety has been amped up because of the tooth. 

[Dee12h]

What are they planning on giving you? I’d recommend just getting the local. They can do it without the epinephrine. They do it for pregnant people.

[Moonpie]

Do not know yet.  I cannot get a local that is why I'm going to a sedation dentist. 2 years ago I had a severe reaction to carbocaine  and was on oxygen for 45 minutes.   I am allergic to epinephrine and they have used carbocaine on me for 59 years. 1st time I have had a reaction.  I wouldn't want to try it again until I'm off everything.  I don't know if they will try oral sedation or Iv.

[Moonpie]

Just wondering if anyone has tried Traditional Medicinals Organic Nighty Night Herbal Tea for WD symtoms.  The main ingredient is Passion flower 360 mg.  Also has anyone tried Hylands Nerve Tonic Tablets.   If you tried either, how did it work for you.  

[Moonpie]

 It is my understanding that it is harder to taper off a drug that has a shorter half life. My next one is buspirone. It has a 1/2 life of 2 hours.   How would you change your tapering method in this case?   Found this very good YouTube video called "How Psych Meds Really Work."   In  my eyes as to why this withdraw is taking so long and what is really going on with my body to heal itself. I hope it's OK that I post to here. If not one of the moderators please remove it.  It helped me think about being more patient with my body healing.  Oh my goodness! I watched another one of this person's videos and  They recommend our website! For getting help!

 

[Shep]

9 hours ago, Moonpie said:

Just wondering if anyone has tried Traditional Medicinals Organic Nighty Night Herbal Tea for WD symtoms.  The main ingredient is Passion flower 360 mg.  Also has anyone tried Hylands Nerve Tonic Tablets.   If you tried either, how did it work for you.  

 

It may help to google the ingredients in these. Passion Flower affects GABA, so you'll have to weigh the pros and cons of that, especially having Ativan in your history. 

 

7 hours ago, Moonpie said:

It is my understanding that it is harder to taper off a drug that has a shorter half life. My next one is buspirone. It has a 1/2 life of 2 hours.   How would you change your tapering method in this case? 

 

You could do a drug and symptoms journal, either here in your intro thread (if you wish to get moderator feedback) or at home on a Word doc or on paper. Here is more on that:

 

Keep notes on paper about your drug dosages and daily symptom pattern

 

This will allow you to see when you're symptoms are happening within the context of when you take your drug. If you see a pattern of interdose withdrawal, you can then gradually move part of your dose to help with that. 

 

Are you using buspirone to help with sleep? If so, you may find that it's helpfulness for sleep outweighs the problems caused by interdose withdrawal. Are you still taking it twice a day (as you have in your signature)? If so, you may want to come off the morning dose, using non-drug coping to help your symptoms, and keep the bulk of the dose at night for sleep and taper that part last. 

 

Glad you're finding helpful videos! 

[Moonpie]

Thank you @Shep .  I'm still splitting the 5 mg dose. I did it in the beginning because if I took the 5 mg all at once they gave me the jitters and anxiety. I am not on buspar for sleep.   It was one of the drugs thrown at me when I 1st had the thyroid upset. The crazy thing is it never worked or did anything. I had not found the group then. So when I went off of it cold Turkey after just a month or so and went into Wd three days later she told me to go back on it because that meant it was helping me more than we realized. So frustrating. Crazy she kept me on it.

 

Plus I just found out it is not to be given with Lexapro, it could be fatal! If my symptoms are not all day. They seem to be strongest in the morning and the afternoon around 3 or 4.  I have realized my stiff neck and neck pain is part of the WD. It comes and goes. My chiropractor find nothing physically wrong. The WD symptoms are all over the place. I am like a yoyo in a  Professional competition right now!  It has been a little over 4 1/2 months since I have been off Lexapro. Before I went off I held my .oo1 mgw for a month and was symptom free. Sometimes I find myself  thinking is this just me and the withdraw is over? But there are too many other symptoms other than just anxiety. Some have reduced in intensity with some intense moments periodically and some have worsened. I am just worn down from daily symptoms.  Am having some windows here and there.   

 

The analogy of the rubrics cube put jumpimg symptoms into prespective as to one system shutting off to fix another. I waited 3 months after stopping ativan before tapering lexapro. Could that still be playing into it?   I am just trying to get my mind in order for when I start the buspar taper.  With both drugs I did .OO1 mgw   Every 4 days unless there were symptoms and then I waited until the symptoms disappeared before continuing.  Would that work with a short half life drug?   I did better with the gradual reduction rather than the 10% all at once.

 

I have searched and have not found a whole lot about tapering buspar on the site.   Even if I could wait to taper the buspar that just means it is in my system longer.  As I have said before if I need to have the tooth fixed, I am concerned about where the drugs they use will put me in WD.  Also I do not know if I put it in my introduction when I applied for the site, but the 2nd year after my husband died I was on zoloft and xanax for 6 months. I did what was considered a fast taper, but  didn't have any serious problems and few Wd. . And did well  afterwards.   

 

But it was just a few months later that I messed up my thyroid meds and went into that spiral and started these  meds but over a period of several months.  They started me on so loft which I had just going off of and I had a reaction and passed out in my bedroom.  Could this be having an impact on now?  I just feel so fragile and messed right now. Thank you for your help and everyone's. It is made a world of difference in my life these last 4 and a 1/2 years. Sorry to ramble

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Shep
added paragraph breaks for readability

[Moonpie]

Updated my signature to drugs I was on before these last 3.  Had some trouble. It kept saying in did not meet guidelines.  Shortened it a lot. Hope I got all the facts straight and included. 

[Shep]

20 hours ago, Moonpie said:

I'm still splitting the 5 mg dose. I did it in the beginning because if I took the 5 mg all at once they gave me the jitters and anxiety. I am not on buspar for sleep.   It was one of the drugs thrown at me when I 1st had the thyroid upset. The crazy thing is it never worked or did anything. I had not found the group then. So when I went off of it cold Turkey after just a month or so and went into Wd three days later she told me to go back on it because that meant it was helping me more than we realized. So frustrating. Crazy she kept me on it.

 

Plus I just found out it is not to be given with Lexapro, it could be fatal! If my symptoms are not all day. They seem to be strongest in the morning and the afternoon around 3 or 4.

 

You mention your symptoms are the strongest in the morning and the afternoon around 3 or 4. When exactly are you taking Buspar? Please list the times of day for both doses. Do the symptoms resolve when you take your second Buspar dose? 

 

Do you eat breakfast when you get up in the morning? Do any of your symptoms seem to resolve if you take care of any early morning low blood sugar? 

[Moonpie]

@ShepDose times vary.  AM is usually around 8-9:30.  PM anywhere from 9:30 to midnight.  Last Thursday I forgot my PM Dose.  Then the next day I forgot my AM meds and took then them at 6pm. My meds are the Buspar and my thyroid. Eating makes no difference. Sometimes makes it worse.

[Moonpie]

Last night was one of those horrific nights.  Panic -strong Anxiety-fear-tight chest -queasy.  Did not fall asleep until early morning but it  never eased completely.  Woke up this morning with strong symptoms still. When I am like this zi can't eat much. I never want to take drugs again and I know what they do to me now.   But I won't lie the temptation comes is there when waves like this come.   Just to take and ativan to get some relief. But I don't know that it would work and with the way my nervous system is would throw things into a worse stituation. The desire for relief is so strong.  But I know that release comes with a price. I have come so far, I can't afford a setback. All my life I have had fear and anxiety at times but I never experienced taking a pill and making it go away until I started the meds when my husband died. The waves are getting longer instead of shorter.  Once a month I have a night like this.  The are lessening in intensity from when I went off Lexapro.  The inpredictablity of the waves  is making me scared of the next one, and when it will come. In 7 more days I will be off Lexapro 5 months.  I can't believe how hard it is. Feeling very discouraged.  Is this the rest if my life?

[Tweet]

So sorry you are having a bad time, Moonpie. Not a Dr., But natural MD Doc recommended me Min chex by Standard Process herbal supplement off Amazon when I was in extreme anxiety. Although just rescue remedy may have helped. 

Just FYI you sound like me at 5-9 months. I lost 35 pounds and I had not been overweight. I  was emaciated from not eating. My beautiful hair fell out in clumps. This is an ugly, vicious process. Those drugs don't want us free. But your spirit with God helping cannot be beat.

Refuse to be beat, and you cannot be beat!

Watch out for fortune telling the future and thinking you'll be like this for life. You won't.

And yes, you have come SO far, TOO far to quit now.

Take it one day at a time and look back at progress not forward at an unknown future.

At times I had to look back 3 months before I could realize improvement. Sometimes that's all I had to keep me going 

And have faith in Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

 

 

 

 

[Moonpie]

@Tweetthank you so much for your encouragement!  I have one more to taper.  Did you have less windows and more longer waves at 4-5 months. I love standard process!  I take min-Tran at night to help relax.  I have taken min-chex in the past before all this.  Will check into it again.  How often did you take them?  It is the intense times like last night that a seem to falter the worst.

[Tweet]

Daily at around the 4-6 month period. But then it began to push me down into depression so I moved on to fish oil, magnesium. Funny how your brain changes like that and it's needs change so we have to find that new something that will help.

The waves did get longer during that period. It is important not to let discouragement set in.

That is the goal-- discouragement-- so you will feel compelled to submit and willingly enslave yourself again to this drug. The long waves will pass. And you will still be standing. Drug-free.😊👍

[Moonpie]

The episode last night wiped me out.  I am so weak today, queasy, uneasy, chest hurts, short of breath, can't eat much.  I guess I had my muscles all in a knot.  I lay down but I cannot rest.  It is like the wave isn't over just weakened or this is the residue of what my body went through last night. 

[Moonpie]

I am sorry to keep posting this but this is where I can and people will understand. I did a really slow taper and I am still having hard WD's.  I wonder what I did wrong.  I keep thinking it wasn't supposed to be this way.  8 days and I am at the 5 month mark off Lexapro.  Getting discouraged.  Wearing down physically and mentally. I did everything right and it is still happening and don't know how much longer. 😪

[Tweet]

Try listening to enjoying everyday life podcast. Take it one day at a time. You have come a long way but you most likely will have a few months longer of this before you can say I definitely am getting better. Stick with it and don't forget to focus on others. It will keep you from getting so self absorbed you swallow yourself up. I know others  like this and it is not pretty and very hard to get out of. 

Take a class or volunteer somewhere. Go to a restaurant for coffee and Bible  lunch and Bible. Talk to clerks and waitresses. Things where If you start feeling too crazy you can gracefully exit.  I took a course and started a Bible study in a church. Each lasted only a season but was infinitely helpful for that disconnected other worldly feeling. Distract yourself with reality. Maybe you feel like you're in another world from others but a little superficial connection works wonders. And for awhile you will forget your misery. 🙂

 

[Moonpie]

I am constantly around people, and very active in my church. And helping others. About all the energy I have extra for is working  And spending time with my grandbabies and my fur baby. Thank you for your encouragement. I think right now I'm having neuro anxiety. usually I will have a bad wave and get some relief. But the tight chest and anxiety isn't leaving right now.  I was able to sleep last night. And with the way I was feeling when I went to bed I wasn't so sure.

[Shep]

On 7/13/2021 at 9:23 AM, Moonpie said:

The waves are getting longer instead of shorter.  Once a month I have a night like this.  The are lessening in intensity from when I went off Lexapro.  The inpredictablity of the waves  is making me scared of the next one, and when it will come. In 7 more days I will be off Lexapro 5 months.  I can't believe how hard it is. Feeling very discouraged.  Is this the rest if my life?

 

On 7/14/2021 at 8:32 AM, Moonpie said:

I was able to sleep last night. And with the way I was feeling when I went to bed I wasn't so sure.

 

I think you answered your own question! No, the rest of your life is not going to be this hard. In fact, you'll find as you go along, you're able to surprise yourself a lot, such as your ability to sleep when you weren't so sure you could. 

 

Better days are coming, Moonpie. The waves are brutal, but as you're finding out, they do pass. As you're able, try to incorporate this into your overall belief system so when a wave hits, you're able to breathe and float through it. I know it's easier said than done, but over time, your confidence in your own healing will grow. 

[Moonpie]

@Shepthank you! That helps a lot. I need to remember also that in a wave everything is distorted just like as if I were under water in a real wave. Sometimes I can float but when it gets rough I get caught up in the undertow and get frantic.  Thank you as always for your encouragement. 

[Tweet]

2 hours ago, Shep said:

 

 

I think you answered your own question! No, the rest of your life is not going to be this hard. In fact, you'll find as you go along, you're able to surprise yourself a lot, such as your ability to sleep when you weren't so sure you could. 

 

Better days are coming, Moonpie. The waves are brutal, but as you're finding out, they do pass. As you're able, try to incorporate this into your overall belief system so when a wave hits, you're able to breathe and float through it. I know it's easier said than done, but over time, your confidence in your own healing will grow. 

Love how you said this, Shep!

So true!

[Moonpie]

Okay putting out a symptom question.  Yesterday I had a breakdown and cried so hard my ribs and back hurt.  Last night I felt so weak.  What I am wondering if others have experienced is hard to explain.  My chest feels weak.  It doesn't hurt but feels kind of sore.  And with it all I feel very very weak.  I haven't been able to eat much with a queasy stomach and I know that doesn't help.  Last night I felt so weak in my chest and all over I was afraid to get up out of bed.  I also haven't slept hardly any they last 2 nights.  Anyone else experience this. I don't think it is my heart but you know it it goes with all these symptoms, you wonder  . . . is it?.   . .  Could it be?    My waves seem to be getting longer with fewer windows and if there are any they are very short.  Is this normal for where I am at from zero?

Thanks for the help!

[Tweet]

57 minutes ago, Moonpie said:

Okay putting out a symptom question.  Yesterday I had a breakdown and cried so hard my ribs and back hurt.  Last night I felt so weak.  What I am wondering if others have experienced is hard to explain.  My chest feels weak.  It doesn't hurt but feels kind of sore.  And with it all I feel very very weak.  I haven't been able to eat much with a queasy stomach and I know that doesn't help.  Last night I felt so weak in my chest and all over I was afraid to get up out of bed.  I also haven't slept hardly any they last 2 nights.  Anyone else experience this. I don't think it is my heart but you know it it goes with all these symptoms, you wonder  . . . is it?.   . .  Could it be?    My waves seem to be getting longer with fewer windows and if there are any they are very short.  Is this normal for where I am at from zero?

Thanks for the help!

Moonpie I got this so often. I would have a tension headache and backache for days afterward. Hope you patiently endure and feel better soon❤️

[Moonpie]

Thank you.  This frightening and mmiserable. Cleaned a house for 2 1/2 hours and have been in bed since.   Need to eat but struggling to find something easy I dont react to.  

[getofflex]

Is buspar the only psychiatric drug you are currently taking?  It would help a lot if you made your drug sig a very concise list with just drugs and dates of each dose change and current dose, no descriptions or symptoms.  Thank you.  

Edited July 17, 2021 by getofflex

[Moonpie]

@goflex  I had trouble redoing my signature. Since it only allows 12 lines.  It shows I'm only on buspar 2.5 mg am and pm.  Also dessicted thyroid and the dose is there also.   I change my signature when I thought I should add the medications I was on before this time. Sorry it is hard to read

[getofflex]

 No biggie.  I’m sorry to hear you are in a wave and your ribs hurt from crying.   I’m in a wave too from a Shingrix vaccine 10 days ago.  We will get through this. Like you I’m weaning off Lexapro.  It’s a bugger  to get off.  Hang in there and don’t give up.  

[Moonpie]

@getofflex  I am so sorry to hear you are having a hard time too.  It's comforting to know you're not the only one going through at that you hate for others to suffer to. Tomorrow will be my 5 month mark off of lexapro.  We just have to keep pushing forward. Brain you have a window soon.  Thank you for your support and  encouragement.

[getofflex]

@Moonpiecongrats for getting of the lexapro - that is a HUGE accomplishment. Lexapro is much stronger than the other SSRI's.  Yes, we will keep pushing forward!  We are getting out of the chemical straightjackets we were in.  The end result will be well worth the WD symptoms we are going through now.  I feel that when I was on psych meds, I was numbed out emotionally and spiritually. That's not living, it's just existing.  

[Moonpie]

@getofflex Thank you! I so agree but when I'm in the moments of a bad wave I forget that it will be worth it.   I still have one more drug to go. I did not realize how much the drugs that none to me until I was coming off of them, and Started having feelings and  crying at sad movies.    I mentioned it in one of my posts.  I feel I am now finishing some grieving over the loss of my husband.  They only way we can fail is to quit. And neither of us would want to do that as far as we have come

[Moonpie]

I have been thinking, not the bad kind.  But I recalled when I went on these meds and they said, "It will be fine and when you are ready to go off you can just go off of them."  Wow!!! The left a lot out.  

My other thought was I realized too often in a wave and when WD symptoms are bad, instead of "trying to get through this" I am trying to "get out of it" and run away, just making it harder on myself.  Making me more frantic and escalating my WD. Because just "getting out of it"  isn't possible right now, only going through it. 

So much for ponderings. How nice to have a place to share and with people that can empathize and care.