Nikki74: Lexapro mirtazapine diazepam akathisia

[Nikki74]

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

Hi Niks,

Try not to worry......it's just so hard for me to tell, over the internet if it IS something that needs medical attention. 

Or if it's just some perceptual shift, where you might be seeing things as far worse, or might be having a distorted body view or something.  I just don't know.  So prefer to err on the side of caution.

And so sorry your medical is not better at listening.

Yes, of course......staying home now is best, and especially if they are running a busy practice right now.  Many have slowed down.

No I understand, it’s so hard to tell by descriptions. I definitely look more exhausted, aged and have gained weight. I had the weight gain when I was on Mirtazipine years ago and it just dropped off and my face looked normal again (not puffy). 

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

I would think, that even with ME/CFS there must be some stretching or something that some have found to be helpful.  Do you travel to sites that are helpful with managing the CFS/ME?  So much cross-over with that and WD too.  Yet, you had some symptoms, you noted before the psych drugs, correct?  I'm so sorry Nikki......tough stuff. 

 

Yes i contracted the illness from a virus in 2006. Before any psych drugs. I recovered 2010-2014 and then got ill again (was on lexapro by then) and the polydrugging made so much worse and cold turkeys and now this ongoing is a massive strain on my body and it’s very bad.

 

I pray that one day I will recover from akathisia, withdrawal, the drugs and ME 🙏

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

Are you drawing at all?

Oh mmt. I long to. It’s like that part of my brain is hijacked. Every few months in comes online and I can suddenly draw for like half an hour, then it goes! I had it last night, the first time since December 30th. Lasted 20 minutes then gone. It’s one reason I need to get off the drugs as it’s just like my artist brain is cloched.

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

Oh that's just me I suppose, as I have seen many on long term benzo's get to feeling really quite blah, and generally icky.  It's kind of a catch 22, isn't it? 

Oh no it’s ok it’s exactly how I feel! I wondered if you meant that the benzo was too much or causing issues. I’m sure it is. I feel benzoed, totally, and I don’t know what to do.

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

No, we don't endorse rehab, to get off these medications.  And then, if you think about it.......well one, it's often expensive, but two, more often you get all this front loaded support and even medical attention......but then you are left on your own completely, when the rehab stay is done.  Some do offer continuing care, here anyway in the US, but I don't think there is often an acknowledgement of WD syndrome beyond the initial WD.  If you could go in, and then go slowly......and get support and all.......I mean that would be great.  I don't know if you could find a rehab like that where you are.  A place that would then help you to help yourself even better once you get home?  Teach you skills and such.

Often there is a component I think that is hard, for some, a kind of self examination, etc.  that might be included too.

So much better if you can learn to be your own best support system.  Or for me, it has worked out that way.....a lot of the time.  Perhaps ask your friend or tell them, what you need for support.......what helps, what doesn't......that kind of thing.  And then exchange support as well, for example, what kind of support for what, might your friend need?  We all need each other, more especially now too, I think.  So......hoping, even with distancing, many are finding what they need now.

Thank you for this mmt. My friend isn’t in the wd world, she was telling me that I should go to rehab, that in her prayers that what she feels is what I should do. 

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

Which pill are you referring to?  With the weighing in at .046 grams.  And I think, if it's the escitalopram, then just try and be consistent with that weight right now.  That may be best.

 

Yes, the escitalopram x

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

And okay, yes, thank you, another day or two of notes.  Nikki, please think about though, if you would like to do any suggestions now too.  I know that both Alto and Shep put a lot of effort into helping you, and making suggestions before........and then you could not follow through with any.  And so, I want to make sure that you do feel motivated enough now and/or able.  Okay?  You've done real good getting the Lexapro down to almost 2.5 mg too!  Yay on that!  So, not to make you feel bad, that's not my intent here.......at......all.  I just want to get you empowered and hopeful.  It's been so very tough for you, I do know that.

 

Thank you for encouragement.

 

I think the only thing that was suggested that I didn’t do was go to taking the Klonopin in 5 or 6 doses. I explained why I didn’t do this. I didn’t realise it was something that I had to follow through with. Is that the case? Let me know if there was anything else. 

 

What sort of thing do I need to feel motivated or able to do going forward?  I do so want my healing. 

 

I fight for it everyday.

 

love and thanks, Nikki x

 

1 hour ago, manymoretodays said:

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Including here your Drug Interaction Report as well, from Drugs.com, for ease of access

And this as well:  Tapering multiple psych drugs? Which drug to taper first? 

Again, ^, for ease of access

 

[Nikki74]

Oh, I typed a long reply yesterday and it didn’t post, darn it!

 

will try to do it later.

 

I just wanted to say I’ve just received my Klonopin prescription and they’ve supplied a different generic. This is unavoidable as I specify the make I have but if they can’t get if from supplier there’s nothing I can do. It’s the one I was on from the start until they swapped me to Teva last December. I had a terrible time adjusting to that (doses were paradoxical every time and caused akathisia, rage, panic and terror to surge severely), I did eventually after about 7-10 days. 

 

So I’m worried.

 

Also awaiting my escitalopram prescription to see if I get my usual brand...

 

Nik

 

After posting this, I saw my reply from yesterday that I thought had been lost, has now posted! 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Nikki74
Update

[manymoretodays]

On 4/16/2020 at 11:27 AM, Nikki74 said:

I think the only thing that was suggested that I didn’t do was go to taking the Klonopin in 5 or 6 doses. I explained why I didn’t do this. I didn’t realise it was something that I had to follow through with. Is that the case? Let me know if there was anything else. 

 

What sort of thing do I need to feel motivated or able to do going forward?  I do so want my healing. 

 

I know, and yes, I think you explained.  I don't think there was anything else.  Best you can do now, is a couple days of notes.  Sometimes something will stand out in those, patterns and such, that make it a bit clearer, as to what might need adjustment or tapering the most.  So work on some notes.  I liked the ones, where you showed non-drug coping you were trying as well.  Lord knows......you'll need a lot of that going forward, and so good to try different things, and practice them diligently, until they help.

 

9 hours ago, Nikki74 said:

I just wanted to say I’ve just received my Klonopin prescription and they’ve supplied a different generic. This is unavoidable as I specify the make I have but if they can’t get if from supplier there’s nothing I can do. It’s the one I was on from the start until they swapped me to Teva last December. I had a terrible time adjusting to that (doses were paradoxical every time and caused akathisia, rage, panic and terror to surge severely), I did eventually after about 7-10 days. 

 

Oh, I wish you could get some kind of exclusion to avoid the switches.  And see what you think about this:

Myths About Your Drugs

Also you might want to update your benzo thread, to ask more about this.  Fingers crossed that the switch won't be so bad this time.

 

Oh, yes, a nice Easter around here......I've been cooking and getting into the garden as well.  The distancing is hard on me.  I love humans.  Itching to get out there and help somewhere.  Many who really need basic hygiene helps, running water, etc., who are not faring well right now.   

 

Funny too, as I might don some cross country ski gear too, even this late, as I found a strip up high, where I could ski.......I think I could anyway......it's a bit slick, but the hike is sure nice.  Oh and I miss swimming so very much........I may have to do cold water swimming in some kind of wet/dry suit.......we'll see.  I hear it's awesome for ones immune system, the really cold water swimming.

 

Okay, hope today is better for you.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Shep]

On 4/13/2020 at 7:34 AM, Nikki74 said:

in past few months, my body has changed and my face, look bloated, saggy, aged, shoulders are raised, upper back has hump forming, very hard to hold myself up or straight, have to lie down 90% of time.

 

Nikki, MMT mentioned yoga or other ways of helping this, which is such an excellent idea. I know you have extreme fatigue, but I'm wondering if you might find ways of doing this. For example, this is a yoga routine done entirely in bed:

 

12 Minute Yoga in Bed to Unwind video

 

For the upper back hump, this is common in people who use the computer a lot or are in a hunched over position in repetitive jobs. This is a very simple set of exercises that won't tax your energy and may be very helpful in relieving this symptom. Maybe start out with the exercises that are done lying down on a yoga mat. 

 

How to Get Rid of a Neck Hump (5 Exercises for a Total Posture Makeover) video (13.5 minutes)

 

I use this because I have a lot of neck and shoulder fatigue from working on a computer all day. It's a very relaxing routine, great for doing in the evening prior to bedtime. 

 

[Nikki74]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

 

Nikki, MMT mentioned yoga or other ways of helping this, which is such an excellent idea. I know you have extreme fatigue, but I'm wondering if you might find ways of doing this. For example, this is a yoga routine done entirely in bed:

 

12 Minute Yoga in Bed to Unwind video

 

For the upper back hump, this is common in people who use the computer a lot or are in a hunched over position in repetitive jobs. This is a very simple set of exercises that won't tax your energy and may be very helpful in relieving this symptom. Maybe start out with the exercises that are done lying down on a yoga mat. 

 

How to Get Rid of a Neck Hump (5 Exercises for a Total Posture Makeover) video (13.5 minutes)

 

I use this because I have a lot of neck and shoulder fatigue from working on a computer all day. It's a very relaxing routine, great for doing in the evening prior to bedtime. 

 

Shep, thank you for this. 

I’ll try to add some of the back exercises gradually to see how it impacts the ME. I’ve done some already. I do chin tucks and will like I say, supplement with new movements from this video. 

 

Years as a teacher, with hours hunched over marking books, then later as a commissioned artist and illustrator again hunched over working in close detail has like you, made this an area of strain for me. But I could work out in those days to help things! 

 

The fatigue and also contracted muscles from the relentless intense agitation from akathisia has compounded both the fatigue and posture issues. 

 

I learnt yoga in the early 90s and practised for years. I do try to do basic stretches when body allows. So thank you again. 

 

Do you think some information regarding ME might be useful for the site? Though I doubt there are many with this as a pee existing condition? 

 

Kind wishes

[Nikki74]

12 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

 

I know, and yes, I think you explained.  I don't think there was anything else.  Best you can do now, is a couple days of notes.  Sometimes something will stand out in those, patterns and such, that make it a bit clearer, as to what might need adjustment or tapering the most.  So work on some notes.  I liked the ones, where you showed non-drug coping you were trying as well.  Lord knows......you'll need a lot of that going forward, and so good to try different things, and practice them diligently, until they help.

 

 

Oh, I wish you could get some kind of exclusion to avoid the switches.  And see what you think about this:

Myths About Your Drugs

Also you might want to update your benzo thread, to ask more about this.  Fingers crossed that the switch won't be so bad this time.

Thank you mmt. 

Yes I read that link when I went through my Mirtazipine ‘fiasco’ (understatement). 

 

 

12 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

Oh, yes, a nice Easter around here......I've been cooking and getting into the garden as well.  The distancing is hard on me.  I love humans.  Itching to get out there and help somewhere.  Many who really need basic hygiene helps, running water, etc., who are not faring well right now.   

 

Funny too, as I might don some cross country ski gear too, even this late, as I found a strip up high, where I could ski.......I think I could anyway......it's a bit slick, but the hike is sure nice.  Oh and I miss swimming so very much........I may have to do cold water swimming in some kind of wet/dry suit.......we'll see.  I hear it's awesome for ones immune system, the really cold water swimming.

 

Okay, hope today is better for you.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Gosh I used to be such an athlete and was bereft losing that when I got the ME. And bereft again now.

 

Swimming Miles, hiking and yoga, aerobics, gym work, I even qualified as a Speedo aqua instructor when I was 7 months pregnant! So I hear you on the exercise. 

 

Couldn’t believe and still can’t that I’ve lost it all again with the ME coming back and this drug hell.

 

I tried the cold water swimming with the ME after reading it can help immunity, and was rendered bedbound after for 6 months. So not good! Mitochondria not happy. But before illness I’d go wild swimming in the rivers on the moors here. 

 

Enjoy.

 

I wonder if I’ll ever be able to go for even a walk again? 

 

And yes, if I wasn’t going through this, I’d be involved in the community support efforts going on here. 

 

After cutting to .046 the other day on lexapro because I couldn’t get it to weigh .047 (as I posted), you said to be consistent with that weight right now. So I have stuck to the .046 (it’s actually exactly half the pill) but this does mean I’ve made a cut in effect. Is this ok? I am feeling symptoms increasing.

 

Oh and please don’t think I’m being scaredy (well, I suppose I am as akathisia means always feeling scared) but when you said above, Lord knows you’ll need the coping skills, mmt my wd brain latched onto it and I wondered if that meant you think I’m going to experience even worse than I have so far?

 

Thank you for your support. N xx

[Nikki74]

Notes Friday 17 April

11am wake up. Heart pounding, akathisia surging, panic increasing.

11.05 take .046 lex (2nd day on this). Symptoms come down a little. 

 

Cigarette.

 

11.30 .25 Klonopin, symptoms come down a little more after 30 mins 

 

Read news and look at twitter, watch some silly videos

 

Cigarette

12 Eat eggs and rice cakes 

 

12.30 Put in tv, feel panic and internal akathisia rising more, but feel clear headed if mind is racing a bit too. 

 

Cigarette 

Cigarette 

2pm receive grocery delivery and put away, exhausted and revved up by this, lie on sofa and let fatigue ease a bit and revved system comes down a bit. Try to watch some tv. 

 

Ocd stuff getting a bit worse, manifests as having to rewind tv and watch some bits several times. Have had this the past 18 months and worse when cutting.

 

3pm .25 Klonopin, feel symptoms come down a bit. 

 

Speak to friend on video call

 

cigarette 

 

4.30 feel symptoms surging, panic and can’t keep still, attempt to cook stew so that carer can finish it off when she comes in an hour. 

 

Extreme weakness and revved. 

 

Cigarette craving so cave in 

 

Eat chicken pieces. 

Lie on sofa and try to focus on tv.

Carer here to help for an hour, talk to her briefly. Feel panic and everything revved.

 

Cigarette

lie down 

6pm eat stew

Lie down and watch tv, symptoms decrease a bit 

 

7pm .28 Klonopin 

Feel drugged and DR increases. Watch tv. Speak to wd friend on video call. Sometimes we just stay on the call and don’t talk much, just keep each other company.

 

8.30pm Sudden feeling to draw, draw for 15 mins then become too revved and fatigued so stop but feel pleased with what I did. Lie back down.

 

Watch tv with friend on video call.

 

10pm have conversation, feel a bit sort of hyper and revved and have to take break from talking.

 

Get my visual hypervigilance where I see things out the corner of my eye like a dot on the wall but there isn’t one there. Or see actual objects in room out corner of eye and mind can’t decipher what it is and causes fear. Tell myself have had before. Give myself a hug.

 

Also symptom where I see faces in inanimate things either on tv or in patterns or fabric like curtains. Mind misreads pattern or shadow or texture as a face. Tell myself have had before and it went away eventually. But gets very bad with tapering. 

 

11.30 go to bed. Take 15mg Mirtazipine. Eat snacks. Fall asleep around 2am. 

 

Had ten small cigarettes in total. 

 

 

 

[Nikki74]

Ps I phoned pharmacy to check on my lex/escitalopram prescription and at same time I asked if they could have supplied me the Teva brand of Klonopin I was on. Just in case! She said my Dr hadn’t specified that brand (despite my asking them to specify time and time again) so they gave me Almus but currently they do have both available. However if I send this box back they’ll have to throw it out and I’m not sure my Dr will represcribe so I can get the Teva but I’m going to try. 

 

Im worried I’ve made an cut (by going to 0.46 from 0.47). This is day 3 of .046 and I’m definitely feeling it. Please don’t be angry I got this wrong. 

 

I know from prior experience that if i now try to go back to .047 it will be very bad. 

[Nikki74]

@Shep

Is it possible to change my username? X

[Shep]

On 4/18/2020 at 8:23 AM, Nikki74 said:

Do you think some information regarding ME might be useful for the site? Though I doubt there are many with this as a pee existing condition? 

 

You're right - I haven't seen a lot from members posting about this as a pre-existing condition. Did you ever find out what may have triggered the fatigue prior to going on psych drugs? 

 

Here is the thread where members discuss this: 

 

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, ME, CFS

 

23 hours ago, Nikki74 said:

@Shep

Is it possible to change my username? X

 

We don't like to change username's unless there's a security reason for doing so. Even if we did change your username, with over 700 posts, there are far too many instances where your current username is captured in quoted text boxes (like the ones I quoted here) which would have to be manually changed. We don't have enough staff to do this. 

[manymoretodays]

On 4/18/2020 at 7:38 AM, Nikki74 said:

Im worried I’ve made an cut (by going to 0.46 from 0.47). This is day 3 of .046 and I’m definitely feeling it. Please don’t be angry I got this wrong. 

 

I know from prior experience that if i now try to go back to .047 it will be very bad. 

 

Hi Nikks!

This is your Lexapro ^ ?  What is the starting weight of your tablet?

And oh my gosh......so sorry for the lapsed reply.  No not angry.  Kind of crazy busy something this past week or so, for moi'.

Another day notes would be grand as well, sweetie.  Thank you.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Nikki74]

On 5/1/2020 at 12:38 AM, manymoretodays said:

 

Hi Nikks!

This is your Lexapro ^ ?  What is the starting weight of your tablet?

And oh my gosh......so sorry for the lapsed reply.  No not angry.  Kind of crazy busy something this past week or so, for moi'.

Another day notes would be grand as well, sweetie.  Thank you.

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Hi mmt

 

Thank you x

 

Yes it’s the lexapro. The starting weight is .092 (sometimes .091 or rarely .094, I work on it being .092). 

So .046 puts me at exactly half way.

 

I’m wondering how risky it would be to cross to taking it in water so that I can taper the rest that way? 

 

I remember a very very long time ago seeing on here something about how to do that. 

 

What do you think? 

And how to do it? I have oral syringes 1ml, 5ml and 10ml plus a large 60ml. 

 

As the smallest cut I can make using scales is .001 and that will get larger in % if I do it that way; whenever I taper of course.

 

Ok will add another day of notes for you.

 

N xx

[brassmonkey]

Hi Nikki-- I'm wondering if you could help me.  I'm gathering data for a tapering chart and need to know the average weight of a full tablet of any medication and the full strength of that tablet as listed on the package. I see that you've been weighting Lexapro tablets, would you be able to supply that information?  Also if you have any other psych meds if I could get the same info for them, it would be wonderful.

 

Brassmonkey

[manymoretodays]

11 hours ago, Nikki74 said:

Yes it’s the lexapro. The starting weight is .092 (sometimes .091 or rarely .094, I work on it being .092). 

So .046 puts me at exactly half way.

 

I’m wondering how risky it would be to cross to taking it in water so that I can taper the rest that way? 

 

I remember a very very long time ago seeing on here something about how to do that. 

 

What do you think? 

And how to do it? I have oral syringes 1ml, 5ml and 10ml plus a large 60ml. 

 

That sounds okay then Nikki74.  So you would be at 2.5 mg now.

How are you doing?

 

I know we did talk about going to liquid, awhile back.  The scales will go all the way down to about .004 grams of weight I believe.  It might be easier to stick with the scale and then when you get really low, in dose, just manually divide it.  Have you looked over at the:  Using a digital scale to measure doses  That might help you to decide which way to go.

And then a little bit on the using a making your own liquid in topic:  Tapering Lexapro(escitalopram)

It is soluble in water, and you could do a dilution, to make measuring doses fairly easy.   And I wouldn't store a solution, protected from light, in the fridge, any longer than 7 days.  So you would have to remix.  I did liquid, not Lexapro, and remixed every 3 days.  It worked out.

And more:  How to make liquid from tablets or capsules

                     Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques

 

I'd imagine there would be a few bumps in shifting over.  And I would recommend you cross over gently:

 

We usually go with:

3/4 old and 1/4 new for 3-7 days, keeping the dose the same

1/2 old and 1/2 new (same as above)

1/4 old and 3/4 new (same as above)

and then to all liquid, if that's what you are crossing over to.

 

And brassmonkey posted above too Nikki74.  Wants your help.  🙂  < smiley face.

We can check and double check your math and all, whatever you decide Niks.

 

 

Okay.  Best.  L, P, H, and G,

mmt

Edited May 5, 2020 by manymoretodays
more links, more

[Nikki74]

3 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Hi Nikki-- I'm wondering if you could help me.  I'm gathering data for a tapering chart and need to know the average weight of a full tablet of any medication and the full strength of that tablet as listed on the package. I see that you've been weighting Lexapro tablets, would you be able to supply that information?  Also if you have any other psych meds if I could get the same info for them, it would be wonderful.

 

Brassmonkey

Hi @brassmonkey

 

Happy to help. I’m on 3 drugs. I’m in the UK so don’t know how this will differ from the generics in the US but here’s the info:

 

Escitalopram (not called Lexapro here) 5mg pills weigh  .092 average

 

Mirtazapine 15mg pills weigh .150 average 

 

Clonazepam Auden .500mcg pills weigh .200 average 

 

weighed on a .001 jewellery scale

 

Is that ok?

 

Nikki 

[Rozon1]

hey @Nikki74 do you ever have any cold chills? I'm curious

[Nikki74]

11 hours ago, Rozon1 said:

hey @Nikki74 do you ever have any cold chills? I'm curious

Hello @Rozon1

Yes I frequently get very shivery and chilled. 

 

I also shake uncontrollably with terror when it’s severe, and akathisia makes me shake. 

 

I have to get under a heated blanket to try to get a smidge of relief. Can recommend heated blanket x

 

 

[Nikki74]

14 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

 

That sounds okay then Nikki74.  So you would be at 2.5 mg now.

How are you doing?

Hi mmt

 

Thank you for your response.

 

yes it puts me at 2.5mg. Finally. It’s taken 21 months to get from 5mg, all of it hell but a bit less so with this reduction. But then I’ve barely reduced in 6 months (only a quarter mg total in that time) because things got so so severe.

 

It worries me a great deal how many more years to go just to complete this taper let alone the benzo and Mirtazipine. 

 

You ask how I am. I’m less tortured. I imagine my daily existence would be considered very bad by most nonetheless and it is purely existence, not living.

 

With this reduction (now 3 weeks have passed), the akathisia didn’t reach frantic pacing levels. The terror only came a few times but was severe when it did. I’ve had extreme fatigue, head and eye pain, swathes of depression, SI, diarrhoea, nausea, confusion, numbness, increased heart rate, panic, crying spells often. The akathisia has remained generally less intense but always with the feeling it could just tip into intense.

 

But this is the first time I’ve not been utterly slammed in every way. And it seems to be somewhat levelling out back to where I was prior cut. Which is the fastest anything like that has happened.

 

However, like I said, I’ve held a lot in the past 6 months and not cut anything like I did (cut size and overall amount) in the year or so before that.  So I’m not sure how to read this cut experience. 

 

I need to post some logs.

The fact is I still have relentless akathisia almost 3 years from cold turkeys and it can so easily become a level that’s severe ongoing and terrifying. I wish I would Go!

 

14 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

 

I know we did talk about going to liquid, awhile back.  The scales will go all the way down to about .004 grams of weight I believe.  It might be easier to stick with the scale and then when you get really low, in dose, just manually divide it. 

 

I did wonder this. 

It would mean cutting .001g each time (or bigger if can handle). 

 

Currently i weigh pill (.092) and cut off bits to get it to weigh the .046.It takes some doing and sometimes 20 minutes to fiddle with tiny pieces to get it to repeatedly weigh that. 

 

I have a photo to show the size of what I’m taking but not sure I can post it? 

 

I honestly do not know which way to go?

 

Given how extremely sensitive I am to reductions and changes.

 

I’m really hoping it doesn’t take another 2 years to get off 2.5mg. I don’t know what to do mmt.

 

 

14 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

 

Have you looked over at the:  Using a digital scale to measure doses  That might help you to decide which way to go.

And then a little bit on the using a making your own liquid in topic:  Tapering Lexapro(escitalopram)

It is soluble in water, and you could do a dilution, to make measuring doses fairly easy.   And I wouldn't store a solution, protected from light, in the fridge, any longer than 7 days.  So you would have to remix.  I did liquid, not Lexapro, and remixed every 3 days.  It worked out.

And more:  How to make liquid from tablets or capsules

                     Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques

 

I'd imagine there would be a few bumps in shifting over.  And I would recommend you cross over gently:

 

We usually go with:

3/4 old and 1/4 new for 3-7 days, keeping the dose the same

1/2 old and 1/2 new (same as above)

1/4 old and 3/4 new (same as above)

and then to all liquid, if that's what you are crossing over to.

 

Thanks for the links and info on this. I’ve had a good look. 

 

The reminder of how potent escitalopram/ lexapro is too. It really is. To think I was told to stop taking such a high dose after 5 years on it and the pregabalin at the same time. I wonder if I’m healing from that as the years go by even with tapering. 

 

As I cut the pill, and a tiny tiny speck makes the difference between it weighing .045 or .046 I don’t know that I could accurately take 1/4 etc etc in crossing over. It would mean cutting two bits that total .046 but one weighing about .012 and the other .034. Then repeat with the other fractions until crossover is complete. I mean it’s not impossible! 

 

I have many questions.

 

Should I be crushing the pill and using gel capsules rather than chopping the pill as I’ve always done?

 

If I stick with the dry cutting, the % of taking .001 off will gradually get bigger. Is this ok?

 

I had thought if I go to water, I’d make the liquid using one pill and drawing from it, fresh each day rather than a batch.

 

Some thoughts and questions.

 

What would you do? 

Nxx

 

14 hours ago, manymoretodays said:

And brassmonkey posted above too Nikki74.  Wants your help.  🙂  < smiley face.

We can check and double check your math and all, whatever you decide Niks.

 

 

Okay.  Best.  L, P, H, and G,

mmt

 

[Wania]

Nikki how long have You been dealing with akathisia? Im suffering so bad, I think I lowered doze too much and Im so bad right now, I should go to psych ward but they will only give me more meds that Im afraid of

[Nikki74]

Log

10-11am gradually wake up feeling the akathisia take hold inside, heartrate increases and looping thoughts, feeling of panic due to akathisia. Do some gentle breathing just to see if can hold off the surge, breathing doesn’t do the job but I’m trying to do it here and there.

 

11am 2.5mg escitalopram 

Get out of bed forced by akathisia; 

Feel hopeless, scared and tormented by inner akathisia and inability to feel still. Absolutely exhausted by fatigue. Heavy limbs. Mind whirring.

 

cigarette

 

11.30 .25mg Klonopin 

Lie down hoping dose will bring the agitation down somewhat. Try to read stuff on Twitter (nothing to do with withdrawal).

 

12 noon things a tad lower. Able to go and lie on sofa. Have to be fiddling with phone and have tv on.

 

12.30 Eat boiled eggs and rice crackers.

 

cigarette

 

1-2 stare at tv. Feel the inner akathisia as always but bit lower. Crying spell, despair.

 

Bad DR.

 

Cigarette 

2-3pm increasing terror and inner akathisia. V bad DR. Terror gets very bad by 3pm, physically shaking. Have to go hide in my bed.

 

3pm .25 Klonopin 

Terror and shaking gradually come down by 4pm. 

 

Speak with friend on video call. 

 

5pm slammed by extreme fatigue, cannot move though buzzing inside. Feel deathly ill. Too weak to even speak. Laboured breathing. Need the bathroom but cannot move at all.

 

6pm eat dinner made for me by carer. It’s a struggle. 

 

Collapse back to lying position. Wiped out.

 

7pm .28 Klonopin 

Causes crying and increase in panic. Extremely weak. By 8.30 has come down. Watch tv. Slight lift in fatigue.

 

Feel like a zombie. Numb. Depressed about it all.

 

11pm prepare food to go to bed. Taking Mirtazipine makes me very hungry and have to eat a lot for it to make me drowsy.

 

11.30 take 15mg Mirtazipine. Eat several healthy snacks. Head whirring as it has all day long so have to be on phone looking at twitter or reading general interest stuff.

 

2am fall asleep.

 

10 very small hand rolled cigarettes today (I worked out the total amount of tobacco would make 2-3 shop bought cigarettes).

 

As always, akathisia constant inside and causing inability to feel any peace or relaxation. 

 

Fatigued all day with very severe from 5- about 8.30pm.

 

Have constant low back pain.

 

This is a typical day. 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Nikki74

[Wania]

How long have You been on clonopin? Do You know what caused akathisia in first place? I dont know how to cope and am afraid I will have to start benzos as well. 

[Nikki74]

2 hours ago, Wania said:

How long have You been on clonopin? Do You know what caused akathisia in first place? I dont know how to cope and am afraid I will have to start benzos as well. 

You can see in my signature about Klonopin/ Clonazepam. And if you read my first few posts from 2017 you can see how I ended up in this hell. It’s too traumatic to explain. X

[Nikki74]

Oh @manymoretodays

 

I just did some maths. 

 

All my drugs together weigh .508g

 

If I can only cut .001g a month (and that’s looking hard enough) that means 42 years of tapering. 

 

The rest of my life. 

 

How do I proceed so I can get off these drugs? I’m nearly 3 years into this. 

 

It’s how severe the akathisia, terror, rage get when I cut more or bigger that is preventing me from getting free.

 

I will always regret reinstating the lexapro (it made no positive difference), and taking benzos and Zopiclone, which led to more benzos in order to get off the Zopiclone, 

 

Could really do with some sort of hope that it won’t take the rest of my life.

 

Nxx

 

 

 

 

 

[Wania]

I just searched through whole story, Im so sory. Is Your aka as severe even when You are holding?

[Rozon1]

Hey @Nikki74 I haven’t gotten a chance to read your full story. We’re you having these issues on lexapro before reinstating or did reinstating make it worse? Did you reinstate at a full or partial dose? 

[manymoretodays]

6 hours ago, Nikki74 said:

Could really do with some sort of hope that it won’t take the rest of my life.

 

It won't take the rest of your life Nikki74.  Sending hope.  And yes, you are healing somewhat, recalibrating a bit, as the dosages change.......giving your nervous system a bit of a rest and recovery period.  Many do taper for years and years and do pretty darn well that way too.  No reason to think that you might not be one of them.

 

On 5/6/2020 at 8:05 AM, Nikki74 said:

Should I be crushing the pill and using gel capsules rather than chopping the pill as I’ve always done?

 

Yes, I think crushing the pill, and using gel capsules might be easiest.  You could set up a weeks worth at a time.  Each taper is based on a percentage of the previous dose. 

And so we refer to that as the mgai -for milligram of active ingredient.

 

6 hours ago, Nikki74 said:

If I can only cut .001g a month (and that’s looking hard enough) that means 42 years of tapering. 

 

The weight .001 g we usually refer to in mg.  So you have been working with 1 mgpw- for milligram of pill weight.

 

There's more in the math department, that brassmonkey put together that will be helpful to go over, for when you continue your Lexapro taper.  And I can get back to you with that ASAP.

 

I too, need to review your case.

 

If you went from the 2.57 mgai to the 2.5 mgai, I come up with that being a 2.8% drop.

 

And so far, so good?  Woo hoo, and yay!

 

Would you update your signature, as to when you went to 2.5 mgai?

 

And surely, I will get some more time to dedicate here soon Niks.  So I will get back to you.

 

Signature update and couple days of notes.......that's your assignment.  Try and post the notes in a separate response box. 

As you are getting inquiries and support from some of the members now, that will make them stand out when I when get back to you.

 

Thank you and hugs.  Courageous trooper!

 

L, P, H, and G,

mmt

[Nikki74]

23 hours ago, Nikki74 said:

Log

10-11am gradually wake up feeling the akathisia take hold inside, heartrate increases and looping thoughts, feeling of panic due to akathisia. Do some gentle breathing just to see if can hold off the surge, breathing doesn’t do the job but I’m trying to do it here and there.

 

11am 2.5mg escitalopram 

Get out of bed forced by akathisia; 

Feel hopeless, scared and tormented by inner akathisia and inability to feel still. Absolutely exhausted by fatigue. Heavy limbs. Mind whirring.

 

cigarette

 

11.30 .25mg Klonopin 

Lie down hoping dose will bring the agitation down somewhat. Try to read stuff on Twitter (nothing to do with withdrawal).

 

12 noon things a tad lower. Able to go and lie on sofa. Have to be fiddling with phone and have tv on.

 

12.30 Eat boiled eggs and rice crackers.

 

cigarette

 

1-2 stare at tv. Feel the inner akathisia as always but bit lower. Crying spell, despair.

 

Bad DR.

 

Cigarette 

2-3pm increasing terror and inner akathisia. V bad DR. Terror gets very bad by 3pm, physically shaking. Have to go hide in my bed.

 

3pm .25 Klonopin 

Terror and shaking gradually come down by 4pm. 

 

Speak with friend on video call. 

 

5pm slammed by extreme fatigue, cannot move though buzzing inside. Feel deathly ill. Too weak to even speak. Laboured breathing. Need the bathroom but cannot move at all.

 

6pm eat dinner made for me by carer. It’s a struggle. 

 

Collapse back to lying position. Wiped out.

 

7pm .28 Klonopin 

Causes crying and increase in panic. Extremely weak. By 8.30 has come down. Watch tv. Slight lift in fatigue.

 

Feel like a zombie. Numb. Depressed about it all.

 

11pm prepare food to go to bed. Taking Mirtazipine makes me very hungry and have to eat a lot for it to make me drowsy.

 

11.30 take 15mg Mirtazipine. Eat several healthy snacks. Head whirring as it has all day long so have to be on phone looking at twitter or reading general interest stuff.

 

2am fall asleep.

 

10 very small hand rolled cigarettes today (I worked out the total amount of tobacco would make 2-3 shop bought cigarettes).

 

As always, akathisia constant inside and causing inability to feel any peace or relaxation. 

 

Fatigued all day with very severe from 5- about 8.30pm.

 

Have constant low back pain.

 

This is a typical day. 

 

 

Dear @manymoretodays Just thought I’d highlight this log I put up yesterday, Friday. It got lost in all the posts but I did put it up separately, just forgot to tag you so you’d see it.

 

Will do another this weekend. Have severe migraine kicking in, this is a regular thing now. So screen time will be limited. They last 2-4 days. Ice pack time. They’ve been getting worse and more frequent past few months. Cause one of my eyes to swell and lid to spasm and close up. Pain across head, down right side (this time, two weeks ago it was left side), in ear and throughout gums. Also causes fatigue to worsen. I wonder what it’s all about? 

 

Ok. Will try to update signature. For some reason can’t find how to. I use an iPhone and I don’t know if it limits options?

 

Thank you for you responses above. If I have to taper for years I’d hope that my standard of life improves over time and the akathisia will finally go. 

 

Love, N xx

[Altostrata]

Nikki, what effect does smoking a cigarette have? Do you feel better or worse before and after a cigarette?

[Nikki74]

3 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Nikki, what effect does smoking a cigarette have? Do you feel better or worse before and after a cigarette?

@Altostrata, I feel such strong cravings and agitation that I feel ‘forced’ to smoke. Then I get some relief from the desperate need to smoke but  worse generally.

 

I feel massively toxic from it. Everyday I long to kick it but it’s the first thing I crave once I’m awake and the akathisia is surging.

 

I've been known to have terror and then it’s come down when I’ve smoked. 

 

I know that that sounds contradictory. I want to quit. But it’s like I’m driven to by the akathisia.

 

Right now I’m two days into severe migraine, nausea and worsened fatigue and smoking makes that worse.

 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Nikki74
Extra description

[Nikki74]

@Altostrata

I’m not sure you can say but do you think nicotine replacement gum might be safe to use? As I’m so sensitive. But I really feel I need to do something about smoking. I’ve tried tapering down and get to 8 and then that’s as far as I get before it creeps up a bit again. 

 

 

[Nikki74]

The cut I made on 16th April is now getting much worse. 

 

Will try to post log. Akathisia and terror so very bad I can hardly type.

 

why do cuts take so long to ramp up for me?

 

They then go on and on for 8-12 weeks until some lowering returns.

 

No matter what size. And I held for three and a half months before this one.

 

I thought I was coming through it last week in record time but no, coming up to 4 weeks and going more severe.

 

@manymoretodays I just don’t understand. X

 

[Altostrata]

I'm sorry, I don't know anything about nicotine dependency. If it makes you feel worse, you should seek a specialist to help you reduce. It's very possible you're so sensitive, it's involved in your ongoing symptoms.

[Nikki74]

1 hour ago, Altostrata said:

I'm sorry, I don't know anything about nicotine dependency. If it makes you feel worse, you should seek a specialist to help you reduce. It's very possible you're so sensitive, it's involved in your ongoing symptoms.

Thank you @Altostrata

 

I’ve reduced from 20 to 8-10 on average. I’m talking to a therapist. 

 

Do you think I won’t heal or progress because of it? 

[Altostrata]

If it makes you feel worse, it's slowing your progress.

[Nikki74]

Logs

 

11am wake up with exploding akathisia, panic, despair, shaking, diarrhoea, intense Dp/Dr

 

2.5mg lexapro brief lowering of symptoms then starts to increase again

 

11.30 .25mg Klonopin 

spend next few hours agitated, moving around, crying, internal akathisia and panic, 

 

Try to distract online (non wd stuff) but constant surges of adrenaline and constant akathisia make it very difficult, also terror 

 

3pm .25mg Klonopin 

Briefly feel zombie effect, maybe half an hour then back to the high rev symptoms. Just want out of my skin, despair at length of time been like this (years), can find no solace. Have to move about and lie down in between as very weak.

 

Have tv on but can’t concentrate.

 

6pm eat dinner 

Collapse in exhaustion and tears

 

7pm .28 Klonopin 

Continue to feel the despair of akathisia 

 

10pm terror increases, depression, cry for two hours.

 

Midnight. Go to bed, panic as no sense or recall of what day it is, take 15mg Mirtazipine 

 

Have to eat many snacks, cannot stop until start to get drowsy 2am then sleep but aware I’m restless through the night but heavily sedated at same time. 

 

[Boris]

Hi

 

I turned to smoking each time I went through akathisia. It was the only thing I could l could feel a tiny a bit of relief with. I would then also get anxious about doing it.

 

I've always been sensitive to smoking as well, it would make fatigue/brain fog worse but I always ended up doing it.

 

Have you considered vaping? Lowering the nicotine over time but still having that mechanical ritual to do? When my bladder/pelvis problems started after my main withdrawal I found myself buying tobacco again which is a big no no for bladder problems. So I picked up the vape with the lowest nicotine and used that instead. I'm still not happy about using it but I've cut down as my problems have eased a bit with the aim to go no nicotine then no vape. I don't get the symptoms I do with vaping like I do with tobacco.

 

Obviously no smoking/nicotine would be best but don't beat yourself up over it.

 

Sorry if you've been suggested this before as I've not read your whole thread.

 

Hang in there.