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magnesi: Effexor tapering and teen depression

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magnesi

Hello :)

Nice to meet you all! I'm here for two reasons.

 

1) I've been on Venlafaxine 150 mg for 1.5 years and I want to taper it safely but still didn't figure out the best way to do it. Every time I forget to take my daily dose I get sick for more than one full day. It's scary! I've seen a recommendation to taper antidepressants at a rate of 10% per month but isn't that unreasonably slow? It would take me more than three years to taper a medication I've been taking for only 1.5 years! Furthermore, I use generic 150mg Venlafaxine capsules that have three large beads inside, and I know there are 75mg capsules available from the same brand. So, the smallest dose is a 25mg bead that I can take from these 75mg capsules. However, 25mg seems too big a cut. I'm afraid I'll have significant withdrawal symptoms and I really need to remain functional. I would appreciate some advice.

 

2) I have a teenage child that was a A student but now refuses to go to school. Doctors wanted to put her on antidepressants, but we chose to take her out of school instead. She's homeschooling but still not OK. She's well in almost every other aspect (social, etc.) but gets terribly anxious at the thought of having a simple one-on-one lesson with a tutor. We think she may have had a kind of burnout event (she's very dedicated and always wants to excel) and, as any adult in this kind of situation, needs time to recover rather than be put on ADs and sent back to school. But would like to hear your opinion.


Thanks in advance  :smitten:

 

PS - I'm currently tapering a benzodiazepine, Ativan. I took 1mg/day for 10 years but had already hit tolerance and it was causing me horrible symptoms like brain fog. I suspect the depressive issues that led to the Venlafaxine prescription were also in part caused by this benzo.
 


Antidepressants - Effexor 150mg since April 2015 (previously Dumyrox 50mg during  8.5 years). Started tapering on Jan 2019. Jumped at 5mg on Sep 3, 2020. Feeling OK with some joint pain.

Benzodiazepine - Ativan 1mg daily during 18 years. Started tapering Sep 2017. Benzo free since Sep 2018. Recurrent and often intense muscle and joint pain during the taper, particularly during the first half.

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bubble

Hello magnesi and welcome to SA.

 

I'm sorry you are getting your reply only now but things seem to be very busy and we are all volunteers.

 

Starting from the bottom: yes, prolonged use of benzos leads to development of depressive symptoms.

 

We have a separate section here on tapering benzos so I would warmly recommend you also start a thread there to get feedback and advice on your Ativan taper.

 

We don't recommend tapering two drugs at the same time for many reasons. Simply it might become too much for your central nervous system to cope.

 

When it comes to the time of the taper regardless what anyone says yoyr brain is the ultimate judge of that. If you are suffering with severe symptoms, it is a sign that you are tapering too fast. Some people, including myself, can't even tolerate 10 % every 30 days. I can only do 2 % cut at the moment.

 

In general it all depends on the reselience of your central nervous system. That reselience in general gets compromised with more years on drugs, attempts to reduce and stop,,adding drugs and so on. Things don't work in isolation so you are not going to taper (when the time comes) 'only' Venlafaxine after 1.5 years but will have to regrow a new brain after 10 years of drug exposure. Slow and steady wins the race.

 

On 10/10/2017 at 7:55 PM, magnesi said:

She needs to recover rather than be put on ADs and sent back to school. 

I can only commend you for this approach regarding your daughter's situation.

 

These drugs are anything but safe and harmless and using them on a young an developing brain is just horrible. I would look in all other possible alternatives: counselling, learning relaxation techniques, etc.

 

Once again welcome. Please use this thread for any questions you may have.


Current: Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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Boysmommy2

Welcome Magnesi! I'm newish here but I have found so much great information I would suggest read everything!!! Every single question I had is on this site and everything makes sense, its so much better than struggling on your own. Good luck 🌞


Celexa 40mg on it for approximately14 months weaned off July 5, 2017

Ativan 0.5 mg as needed (2-3 times a week)

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magnesi

Thank you bubble and Boysmommy2!

Good image, that of growing a new brain. I'm hopping I can do some improvements in relation to my previous brain :)

 

In relation to my daughter, thank you for the support. It's important to me because schools, doctors and even family and friends, they all seem so much more worried with the possibility of a lost academic year. But I feel that's nothing compared to all the problems that can come from giving  psychoactive drugs to a teenager. Whose only problem is refusing to go to school! I mean, teenagers are supposed to make our life a little harder, refuse to do stuff and try to find their own way of doing things, aren't they? When I was a teenager I did some pretty stupid things, including skipping classes which is something they can't do today because they are subjected to much stricter control. But that was normal for the previous generation, people weren't supposed to be perfect!


Antidepressants - Effexor 150mg since April 2015 (previously Dumyrox 50mg during  8.5 years). Started tapering on Jan 2019. Jumped at 5mg on Sep 3, 2020. Feeling OK with some joint pain.

Benzodiazepine - Ativan 1mg daily during 18 years. Started tapering Sep 2017. Benzo free since Sep 2018. Recurrent and often intense muscle and joint pain during the taper, particularly during the first half.

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bubble

This is a post that made things so much clearer for me:

 

 


Current: Xanax 0.26 (down from 2 mg in 2013), Lexapro 2.85 mg (down from 5 mg 2013)

Amitriptyline (tricyclic AD) and clonazepam for 3 months to treat headache in 1996 
1999. - present Xanax prn up to 3 mg.
2000-2005 Prozac CT twice, 2005-2010 Zoloft CT 3 times, 2010-2013 Escitalopram 10 mg
went from 2.5 to zero on 7 Aug 2013, bad crash 40 days after
reinstated to 5 mg Escitalopram 4Oct 2013 and holding liquid Xanax every 5 hours
28 Jan 2014 Xanax 1.9, 18 Apr  2015 1 mg,  25 June 2015 Lex 4.8, 6 Aug Lexapro 4.6, 1 Jan 2016 0.64  Xanax     9 month hold

24 Sept 2016 4.5 Lex, 17 Oct 4.4 Lex (Nov 0.63 Xanax, Dec 0.625 Xanax), 1 Jan 2017 4.3 Lex, 24 Jan 4.2, 5 Feb 4.1, 24 Mar 4 mg, 10 Apr 3.9 mg, May 3.85, June 3.8, July 3.75, 22 July 3.7, 15 Aug 3.65, 17 Sept 3.6, 1 Jan 2018 3.55, 19 Jan 3.5, 16 Mar 3.4, 14 Apr 3.3, 23 May 3.2, 16 June 3.15, 15 Jul 3.1, 31 Jul 3, 21 Aug 2.9 26 Sept 2.85, 14 Nov Xan 0.61, 1 Dec 0.59, 19 Dec 0.58, 4 Jan 0.565, 6 Feb 0.55, 20 Feb 0.535, 1 Mar 0.505, 10 Mar 0.475, 14 Mar 0.45, 4 Apr 0.415, 13 Apr 0.37, 21 Apr 0.33, 29 Apr 0.29, 10 May 0.27, 17 May 0.25, 28 May 0.22, 19 June 0.22, 21 Jun updose to 0.24, 24 Jun updose to 0.26

Supplements: Omega 3 + Vit E, Vit C, D, magnesium, Taurine, probiotic 

I'm not a medical professional. Any advice I give is based on my own experience and reading. 

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magnesi

Hello,

I'm currently tapering a benzo, Activan, after using it for almost 18 years, and have already reduced the dose from 1mg to 0.38mg per day, over 3 months. I have been fully functional with symptoms like muscle and joint pain and tinnitus.

Meanwhile, I'm also on Effexor and my initial plan was to start reducing this AD after finishing the benzo. But lately I've been wondering if it would be better to start now, using a very slow rate for both drugs. I know that in most forums i's recommended to reduce one medication at a time, but that does not make much sense to me.

Indeed, both the benzo and the AD affect brain chemistry. But our brain only "feels" a general effect that comes from the two drugs combined (individual effects plus interaction). So, why not reduce them together, very slowly?

The way I´m doing it (reducing only the benzo), my brain is regenerating but the fact is that it's adapting to another situation which is also not sustainable because it includes the effects of the antidepressant. And the same would happen if I had reduced the AD first. Wouldn't it therefore be better to reduce both medications at the same time, extra slowly? The brain could therefore evolve towards a true equilibrium situation, one in which there would be no drugs.

If I had to hold it would be the two meds, of course.

I see two main advantages of treating of the two drugs as if they were one: (i) smoother and continuous transition to a drug free state; (ii) faster process, even at a lower rate of reduction.

I would like to know your opinion :)


Antidepressants - Effexor 150mg since April 2015 (previously Dumyrox 50mg during  8.5 years). Started tapering on Jan 2019. Jumped at 5mg on Sep 3, 2020. Feeling OK with some joint pain.

Benzodiazepine - Ativan 1mg daily during 18 years. Started tapering Sep 2017. Benzo free since Sep 2018. Recurrent and often intense muscle and joint pain during the taper, particularly during the first half.

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Jony
5 hours ago, magnesi said:

Hello,

I'm currently tapering a benzo, Activan, after using it for almost 18 years, and have already reduced the dose from 1mg to 0.38mg per day, over 3 months. I have been fully functional with symptoms like muscle and joint pain and tinnitus.

Meanwhile, I'm also on Effexor and my initial plan was to start reducing this AD after finishing the benzo. But lately I've been wondering if it would be better to start now, using a very slow rate for both drugs. I know that in most forums i's recommended to reduce one medication at a time, but that does not make much sense to me.

Indeed, both the benzo and the AD affect brain chemistry. But our brain only "feels" a general effect that comes from the two drugs combined (individual effects plus interaction). So, why not reduce them together, very slowly?

The way I´m doing it (reducing only the benzo), my brain is regenerating but the fact is that it's adapting to another situation which is also not sustainable because it includes the effects of the antidepressant. And the same would happen if I had reduced the AD first. Wouldn't it therefore be better to reduce both medications at the same time, extra slowly? The brain could therefore evolve towards a true equilibrium situation, one in which there would be no drugs.

If I had to hold it would be the two meds, of course.

I see two main advantages of treating of the two drugs as if they were one: (i) smoother and continuous transition to a drug free state; (ii) faster process, even at a lower rate of reduction.

I would like to know your opinion :)

It´s quite interesting...

 

Let´s wait about the experts opinion.


Morning

Escitalopram 10 mg from 2005 to present

Dec 10.17 reduced to 9 mg; reinstated 10 mg; Jan 2.18 9 mg; Fev 12.18 8 mg; Jan 30.20 5 mg; Feb 6.20 reinstated 6 mg

Ethyl Loflazepate 2 mg from 2005 to present

 

Night

Mirtazapine 15 mg from 2015 to present (November reinforcement 30mg) Dec 8.17 15 mg

Levomepromazine 25 mg started November 2017

8/12/2017 12.5 mg; 13/12/17 6.25 mg; 20/12/2017 3.125 mg; 23/12/2017 last 3.125 mg

Clonazepam 2 mg started Nov. 2017 (occasionally) ; last week 2 mg; Dec 19.17 1 mg; Dec 21.17 1.5 mg ; Dec 22.17 2 mg; Jan 2.2018 1.9 mg; Jan 7.2018 3mg; Jan 8.18 2mg; Jan 16.18 1.8 mg; Jan 17.18 1.5 mg ; Jan 18.18 1.7 mg; Jan 19.18 1.6 mg; Fev 12.18 1.5 mg; Jan 30.20 0.5 mg

Xanax XR 1 mg in subtitution of Ethyl Loflazepate 2mg (occasionally)

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savinggrace

Hi Jony,

For what it’s worth, I think you are spot on with the statement that the two drugs were acting as one...spot on!

 

If I could start my taper again, I would actually taper all 3 drugs, closing following the method that Rhiannon chose. Rhiannon provides very clear logic, experience and expertise in doing this. 

 

That said, I am a little bit in awe of your nearly 40% taper of Ativan (a short-half life benzo, no less) in 3 months. You are very brave and determined, clearly. However, I am just not at all sure that this rapid taper has caught up with you yet. Ativan does clear quicker than the other benzos but I fear if you resume tapering both right now, you will find yourself in real trouble. 

 

In my very modest opinion (and that’s all anyone can give...we are all so different) I would do a nice long hold (like 6 months) If you still feel the same, or no worse, perhaps rhen your  brain will be ready to try this multi-drug taper. I would actually tell you to hold for a good long while now even if you were on one drug.

 

SA does not advocate tapering multiple drugs at once, but had I read Rhiannon’s stuff, and could start over, I am fairly certain I would not be in the dark chasm of withdrawal I am in.

 

Boy, do I understand the urgency you feel. However you don’t want to sabotage your taper by hurrying it up, and then be in protracted w/d. 

 

Good luck,

Grace (not an “expert”; just  an attendee of the school of hard knocks)

 

 


amitriptyline from 1980-2002, along wi/ intermittent, infrequent use of benzos over 2 decades

2002-2010 Klonopin 1-2 mg., ambien 10--20, mg, remeron 4 mg. and  trileptal 300 mg

2011 Stopped ambien and crossed over to valium 17.5 mg. (updosing 2.5 mg. to cover ambien C/T )

Micro-tapered valium from 2011-2015. Hit a wall at 12.84. mg.  

Jan. 2015 Tapered 75 mg. trileptal  first year. 6 month hold.  Resumed micro--tapering trileptal 2-10% every few months

January 2020  12.74 valium, 4 mg. remeron. Resumed micro-tapering trileptal 5 mg. down to 138 mg. 1/21/20; long hold; cut trileptal to 133 mg. 

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Jony
14 hours ago, savinggrace said:

Hi Jony,

For what it’s worth, I think you are spot on with the statement that the two drugs were acting as one...spot on!

 

If I could start my taper again, I would actually taper all 3 drugs, closing following the method that Rhiannon chose. Rhiannon provides very clear logic, experience and expertise in doing this. 

 

That said, I am a little bit in awe of your nearly 40% taper of Ativan (a short-half life benzo, no less) in 3 months. You are very brave and determined, clearly. However, I am just not at all sure that this rapid taper has caught up with you yet. Ativan does clear quicker than the other benzos but I fear if you resume tapering both right now, you will find yourself in real trouble. 

 

In my very modest opinion (and that’s all anyone can give...we are all so different) I would do a nice long hold (like 6 months) If you still feel the same, or no worse, perhaps rhen your  brain will be ready to try this multi-drug taper. I would actually tell you to hold for a good long while now even if you were on one drug.

 

SA does not advocate tapering multiple drugs at once, but had I read Rhiannon’s stuff, and could start over, I am fairly certain I would not be in the dark chasm of withdrawal I am in.

 

Boy, do I understand the urgency you feel. However you don’t want to sabotage your taper by hurrying it up, and then be in protracted w/d. 

 

Good luck,

Grace (not an “expert”; just  an attendee of the school of hard knocks)

 

 

 

It seems that you confused me with magnesi...no problem.

 

About that question, I have a doubt. Maybe the effect of two drugs doesn't be the same ,in the brain ,than each one separate.

And maybe it's more complicated to taper two drugs, or more, at the same time. Or not...

 

The theory does make sense, according the way of brain re-adapted to new doses.


Morning

Escitalopram 10 mg from 2005 to present

Dec 10.17 reduced to 9 mg; reinstated 10 mg; Jan 2.18 9 mg; Fev 12.18 8 mg; Jan 30.20 5 mg; Feb 6.20 reinstated 6 mg

Ethyl Loflazepate 2 mg from 2005 to present

 

Night

Mirtazapine 15 mg from 2015 to present (November reinforcement 30mg) Dec 8.17 15 mg

Levomepromazine 25 mg started November 2017

8/12/2017 12.5 mg; 13/12/17 6.25 mg; 20/12/2017 3.125 mg; 23/12/2017 last 3.125 mg

Clonazepam 2 mg started Nov. 2017 (occasionally) ; last week 2 mg; Dec 19.17 1 mg; Dec 21.17 1.5 mg ; Dec 22.17 2 mg; Jan 2.2018 1.9 mg; Jan 7.2018 3mg; Jan 8.18 2mg; Jan 16.18 1.8 mg; Jan 17.18 1.5 mg ; Jan 18.18 1.7 mg; Jan 19.18 1.6 mg; Fev 12.18 1.5 mg; Jan 30.20 0.5 mg

Xanax XR 1 mg in subtitution of Ethyl Loflazepate 2mg (occasionally)

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Altostrata

Moved posts into magnesi's topic.

 

1 minute ago, Altostrata said:

 

The main reason we urge people to taper only one drug at a time is that if you get withdrawal symptoms or other adverse effects you'll have a good idea what caused it.

 

When you change more than one drug at time and you get a bad reaction, what do you do? Updose one drug, updose the other drug, updose both drugs? What if the bad reaction was caused by something else altogether? You'll get yourself into a snarl of drug adjustments that will lead to a great deal of angst, confusion, and wasted time.

 

Please note the mods probably won't be able to make any better guesses than you can if you get yourself into this predicament. Most likely, you'll have to dig your way out yourself.

 

Rhiannon's micro-tapering of more than one drug at a time was based on her very close monitoring for a long time of the reactions she got from tapering *each* drug. That is what you need to know if you do multiple micro-tapering.

 

Making decisions about your tapering strategy depends on a lot of things that are individual to you, such as the combination of drugs you're taking and the side effects you're currently experiencing. This is why we ask people to post "what should I do?" questions in their own Introductions topic, where we can get into detail without throwing the topic off track.

 


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Altostrata

magnesi, if I were you, I'd hold on the benzo dosage and try tapering Effexor.

 

Congratulations on getting your benzo dosage so low. Do you have any symptoms when you reduce it?


This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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magnesi

Hi Altostrata, yes I have some. In the beginning it was more physical weakness, muscle and joint pain. Then, after reaching 50% I developed tinnitus and the muscle and joint pain increased a lot (some weeks ago I had a huge pain crisis and had to stay in bed for two weeks). These are my main symptoms now. I'm holding the dose at 38% to see if things get better. I spend a lot of time in bed but, overall, I've been functional. I'm working and starting my own business, travel, take care of my teenage daughters, go to the gym, and have a social life. On the other hand, my house is a mess because I have much less energy than I used to.

 

Why do you think I should taper Effexor first? The benzo, that I've been taking for 18 years, ceased having any positive effects long ago and was only making me sick. I


Antidepressants - Effexor 150mg since April 2015 (previously Dumyrox 50mg during  8.5 years). Started tapering on Jan 2019. Jumped at 5mg on Sep 3, 2020. Feeling OK with some joint pain.

Benzodiazepine - Ativan 1mg daily during 18 years. Started tapering Sep 2017. Benzo free since Sep 2018. Recurrent and often intense muscle and joint pain during the taper, particularly during the first half.

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nz11

Because the benzo will help soften the blow of the Effexor wdl symptoms.

Magnesi please would you consider doing a drug sig....like sometime this year would be good! 

In other words don't leave it to next year.

nz11

 


Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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magnesi
On 12/30/2017 at 3:57 AM, nz11 said:

Because the benzo will help soften the blow of the Effexor wdl symptoms.

 

 

I doubt it since as I said I've been taking the benzo for more than 18 years. The only effect the benzo is having is preventing (some of) its own withdrawal symptoms.

 

PS - How can I create a signature? Thanks!


Antidepressants - Effexor 150mg since April 2015 (previously Dumyrox 50mg during  8.5 years). Started tapering on Jan 2019. Jumped at 5mg on Sep 3, 2020. Feeling OK with some joint pain.

Benzodiazepine - Ativan 1mg daily during 18 years. Started tapering Sep 2017. Benzo free since Sep 2018. Recurrent and often intense muscle and joint pain during the taper, particularly during the first half.

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nz11
2 hours ago, magnesi said:

The only effect the benzo is having is preventing (some of) its own withdrawal symptoms

okaaaay

 

Go to the to right and click on the drop down box arrow then click on account settings then on the l.h.s. you see signature ...you can do it.


Thought for the day: Lets stand up, and let’s speak out , together. G Olsen

We have until the 14th. Feb 2018. 

URGENT REQUEST Please consider submitting  for the petition on Prescribed Drug Dependence and Withdrawal currently awaiting its third consideration at the Scottish Parliament. You don't even have to be from Scotland. By clicking on the link below you can read some of the previous submissions but be warned many of them are quite harrowing.

http://www.parliament.scot/GettingInvolved/Petitions/PE01651   

Please tell them about your problems taking and withdrawing from antidepressants and/or benzos.

Send by email to petitions@parliament.scot and quote PE01651 in the subject heading. Keep to a maximum of 3 sides of A4 and you can't name for legal reasons any doctor you have consulted. Tell them if you wish to remain anonymous. We need the numbers to help convince the committee members we are not isolated cases. You have until mid February. Thank you

Recovering paxil addict

None of the published articles shed light on what ssri's ... actually do or what their hazards might be. Healy 2013. 

This is so true, with anything you get on these drugs, dependance, tapering, withdrawal symptoms, side effects, just silent. And if there is something mentioned then their is a serious disconnect between what is said and reality! 

  "Every time I read of a multi-person shooting, I always presume that person had just started a SSRI or had just stopped."  Dr Mosher. Me too! 

Over two decades later, the number of antidepressant prescriptions a year is slightly more than the number of people in the Western world. Most (nine out of 10) prescriptions are for patients who faced difficulties on stopping, equating to about a tenth of the population. These patients are often advised to continue treatment because their difficulties indicate they need ongoing treatment, just as a person with diabetes needs insulin. Healy 2015

I believe the ssri era will soon stand as one of the most shameful in the history of medicine. Healy 2015

Let people help people ... in a natural, kind, non-addictive (and non-big pharma) way. J Broadley 2017

 

 

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magnesi

Hello,

I started tapering my 150mg venlafaxine dose last January. I've been cutting 10% of the initial dose per month, which means that I've already made three cuts. The last cut was a little higher because I wanted to reach the 2/3 of the initial dose, so that I could just eliminate one of the three pills that come inside the capsules of one of the generic venlafaxine brands I have available. Previously, I had to use a different venlafaxine brand in which the capsules are filled with small beads, and made my cuts by weighting the content of the capsules and then eliminating a certain amount of beads, which was less practical.

 

Now I'm at 100mg venlafaxine and I'm feeling well. Muscle weakness and pain sometimes reappear, and lately I've been feeling a little down, but nothing I can't control.

 

So, I wonder if I could keep on cutting 10% of the initial dose, at least until I reach 50% of that initial dose.

 

I know that, as we taper, the 10% of the initial dose represent a higher and higher percentage of the current dose, but I'm feeling OK.

 

I'd be thankful for your advice, and I'd particularly like to hear from people that managed to cut faster than 10% of their current dose per month, with good results.

 

Best wishes!


Antidepressants - Effexor 150mg since April 2015 (previously Dumyrox 50mg during  8.5 years). Started tapering on Jan 2019. Jumped at 5mg on Sep 3, 2020. Feeling OK with some joint pain.

Benzodiazepine - Ativan 1mg daily during 18 years. Started tapering Sep 2017. Benzo free since Sep 2018. Recurrent and often intense muscle and joint pain during the taper, particularly during the first half.

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magnesi
Posted (edited)

Corona virus?Covid19- should we postpone our cuts?

 

I've been told that antidepressant withdrawal lowers our immunity. I was supposed to make another cut Saturday. Should I postpone it until the end of the corona virus emergency? All schools, kindergartens, universities and other social places like bars, etc. were closed today here.

Edited by manymoretodays
merged to introduction, from tapering, added title

Antidepressants - Effexor 150mg since April 2015 (previously Dumyrox 50mg during  8.5 years). Started tapering on Jan 2019. Jumped at 5mg on Sep 3, 2020. Feeling OK with some joint pain.

Benzodiazepine - Ativan 1mg daily during 18 years. Started tapering Sep 2017. Benzo free since Sep 2018. Recurrent and often intense muscle and joint pain during the taper, particularly during the first half.

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manymoretodays
Posted (edited)

Hi magnesi, @magnesi,

merged your most recent post back here from tapering.

 

How are you doing overall?  I'm not seeing many updates to your introduction topic, since last April.

 

Where did you hear that antidepressants lowers ones' immunity?  Any reference information as to this?  I'm not privy to any information that says this.  Is this specific to your Effexor?  Did you read this somewhere?

 

We have members all around the globe. 

I'm in the U.S.  And there have, more recently, been measures taken to control the spread of infection to "more susceptible or higher risk individuals" who may have weakened immunities due to age factors, or disease, or illness factors.  Mass gatherings being canceled for the next couple of weeks. 

Some Universities canceled here too and other events.

 

And basic hygiene measures are being reinforced, as to prevent the spread of infection.  Basic hand washing for 20 seconds. 

To stay at home if sick.

 

And if "more susceptible/higher risk" to stay out of large gatherings and crowds.  And that others respect this, especially if said others are sick, or potentially infectious.

 

Do you have another chronic condition outside of WDsyndrome going on?  If not, I don't see any reason to delay your next taper or "cut". 

What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

Or are you an older individual?  Here, in the U.S., they are cautioning older individual to avoid gatherings of more than 20 people.  With older being defined as > age 60.  To avoid contracting Corona virus I suspect.

 

Your signature notes that you are currently at 24 mg, but no date.......and so I am wondering what dose you are presently at?  And how you have been tapering over the last year.  And then how you are doing now?

Are you still benzo free as of September 2018?

 

So.....In short, I don't see any reason to delay your next taper. 

 

magnesi, I'm finding many previous posts around your taper(s) in other areas.  We encourage members to post around their specific cases, in their introductions.  It does look like you have found the:

Tips for tapering off Effexor and EffexorXR(venlafaxine) topic

 

And that's an excellent topic to read through, and especially from the beginning, if you have not already.  You may have.

 

I'd love to hear more about how your taper is going, as well, as said before.........so please don't hesitate to post right here, on your introduction page too!   And ask any questions you have please.  

Thank you.

 

Love, peace, healing, and growth,

moderator manymoretodays(mmt)

 

 

 

 

Edited by manymoretodays
link added

Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal ,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once(Provigil,) Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic  2016 December 9- completely off all medications!!!!!

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= 1800 mg/day. Magnesium complex, orally, diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C, D3, and E.  B12, melatonin tapered to 1mg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=400 mcg plus daily spinach. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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magnesi

Hello manymoretodays, I'm currently at 19 mg venlafaxine and tomorrow I'm supposed to cut another 20%. I began the taper with 10% cuts every month and then a few months ago I increased them to 20%. I know the thread tips for tapering off effexor, thank you. I posted there to try to understand when would I be able to jump but got very little help. Lately, one member called superwoman kindly told me that people are supposed to jump at around 1mg but I don't know if that is valid for every antidepressant. I'm planning to jump at 5% of my initial dose (i.e. at 7.5 mg venlafaxine) as I did with the benzo - yes, I'm benzo free, of course, and focused on becoming AD free too. In benzo forums, people also say that lower doses are the worse but I eventually understood that it happens because many taper too fast and then the effects of the various cuts accumulate. But I made a symptom-based taper over one year and didn't feel a thing when I jumped at 5% of my initial benzo dose. So, that's what I plan to do with the AD. Many here at survivingantidepressants recommend that we extend the taper much longer but in reality nobody seems to have solid ideas about it and I have three important reasons to not doing it: (1) I don't feel very stable because it's impossible to always take the AD at the same time everyday; my life is not that regular and I don't want it to become AD centered; (2) I need to do a health insurance and for that I need to be completely med free; (3) being med free would feel psychologically and logistically great and I need it.

 

I have the feeling that, differently from benzo tapering, on which we have for example Prof. Heather Ashton's work as a reference, there is much less experience about AD tapering. I don't feel supported by this forum, which is why I don't come here often, but I suspect it's largely because a sound body of knowledge about AD tapering does not exist yet. There are also other things that I personally don't like about survivingantidepressants but in the end they are not as important. For eg, my questions are rarely answered and some people are intrusive, trying to tell me what to do instead of discussing the issues, which is not helpful to me.

 

Regarding my question about the effect of AD withdrawal on our immunity, it is pertinent given the situation we are experiencing in Europe. Do you know if withdrawal involves a lowering of our immunity?

 

Thank you ❤️

 

 


Antidepressants - Effexor 150mg since April 2015 (previously Dumyrox 50mg during  8.5 years). Started tapering on Jan 2019. Jumped at 5mg on Sep 3, 2020. Feeling OK with some joint pain.

Benzodiazepine - Ativan 1mg daily during 18 years. Started tapering Sep 2017. Benzo free since Sep 2018. Recurrent and often intense muscle and joint pain during the taper, particularly during the first half.

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manymoretodays
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, magnesi said:

I'm planning to jump at 5% of my initial dose (i.e. at 7.5 mg venlafaxine) as I did with the benzo - yes, I'm benzo free, of course, and focused on becoming AD free too.

2 hours ago, magnesi said:

Many here at survivingantidepressants recommend that we extend the taper much longer but in reality nobody seems to have solid ideas about it and I have three important reasons to not doing it: (1) I don't feel very stable because it's impossible to always take the AD at the same time everyday; my life is not that regular and I don't want it to become AD centered; (2) I need to do a health insurance and for that I need to be completely med free; (3) being med free would feel psychologically and logistically great and I need it.

 

Hi magnesi,

We actually do have a lot of solid ideas about "jumping off" points, gained from collective experience, our own, and then those of working with other members through the years.  We tend to be more harm reduction focused, as well as fairly rigorous in terms of requiring a basis for opinion.  And especially, in regards to tapering and WD.  I mean that is our focus.  I think jumping off at 7.5 mg, might, just might lead to WD symptoms, and if not immediately, they may appear months later.  We generally suggest jump offs at doses even less than 1 mg, sometimes even in the .01 mg range. 

And.....take a look at Karma's introduction here:  Karma: tapering Effexor, Gabapentin, and Xanax

she just jumped off at 0.0156 mg of Effexor, after many years of tapering

 

*Why taper by 10% of my dose

in the first post there, there is more about this, and some references as well, to published works

More also around the site, too, as far as the basis for our protocols.

I am happy to help you, or find topics that might help, if you would like.

How Long? The Bottom Line.

you might be interested in ^, and then could scroll to the top too, and look at the table of contents of the essay and read more, if you'd like.

 

I don't get the part about your need to get health insurance.  You need to be off Effexor to get health insurance?

And yes, it does feel great to be "med free", for me anyway.  Yet, it was a long time coming.  Many years actually.  And with tons of struggle thrown in.  There are many here, who just go about their tapers, very logically, and continue to function very well.  Or even get back to better functioning, while tapering, which sometimes requires a longer HOLD period than they had hoped for, but in the end they eventually get drug free.

 

The rule of 3KI's: Keep it simple, slow, and stable

I don't know, but maybe this will speak to you ^

 

It can be really important to take your dose at the same time, the same way, everyday too.  Your nervous system will thank you.  Do you need help with ideas on how to do this?  Setting an alarm, on your phone, or some kind of reminder can help.

 

I don't want to debate or anything, but I really believe in this site, and it's value, and feel committed to giving back.........as it sure helped me.  And I don't want to see people needlessly suffering by doing what I did, for so many years, on my own, with the merry go round of medications that I was on.......by good doctors, following the medical treatment paradigm model of todays mental health care.  And then I thought I could just quit, and it would be easy.  That did not work and I wound up in hospital again, with 2 additional medications, and no recognition of my Lexapro WD state.  I came through though.  All of that.  30 years, and at least 30 medications.

 

 

I came off Effexor myself......quite awhile back, and before I was privy to more information about or around tapering, or what WD was.  I did not do well with it to begin with, it followed a chain of AD's for me.  Lot's of adverse effects, changes in my personality even, bouncing from happy to sad and reclusive, like clockwork, every couple of months.  When I came off it.........my doctors got into even more medications with me, as well as some diagnonsense......that in retrospect, I realized that so many of my symptoms were iatrogenic, medically or medication induced.

 

I worry then, that if you don't feel very stable now......that it's possible it might get worse, with too rapid of a taper.  Many of us, believe me, members and non-members alike have thought that just getting off the medication, or their medication, is going to be the answer.  But, if done too quickly, it just adds to distress, or a distressed system.

When we take medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made.  The CNS likes stability. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.

So I've been quite thankful that my journey led me here and that I could get some expertise and support for my final tapers/withdrawals.

 

And of course, maybe this site isn't for you.  I do wish for you to have some support now though, somewhere on-line or on the ground.  No one should have to go through this alone.

 

And I'm so sorry that your questions here, on this page, did not always get attention.  We are staffed with all volunteers, and most of us, do have other life commitments that don't allow for 24/7 monitoring and follow up with everyone.  And we do rely on other members helping members too.  I'm so sorry though, that your experience here has not been better. 

 

You can, to get a moderator's or members attention, either:

1. quote them(they'll see a notification that they were quoted and by who, when signed in)

2.  Add an @ symbol and then choose the member(s) or moderator(s) that you wish to notify of your post, or question, or answer, etc

 

2 hours ago, magnesi said:

Regarding my question about the effect of AD withdrawal on our immunity, it is pertinent given the situation we are experiencing in Europe. Do you know if withdrawal involves a lowering of our immunity?

 

Yes, I know it is very pertinent, for all of us right now.  I hope you weren't offended that I put your query back here, on your introduction page.  And I have asked for some additional input, in regards to your post above, around the Corona Virus/Covid 19 and tapering. 

 

I don't think that WD itself involves a lowering of our immunity.  Not directly.  In some, it might, but indirectly.  As it does often, however, affect the autonomic nervous system, quite a bit.  And I think that anytime the autonomic nervous system is affected......yes, sure it could affect ones immune status.  Take for example, if one is induced into a very fearful type state, that could and probably will then lower ones natural immune defenses a bit.  As far as if any of us does get the Covid19 virus.......I believe that for most, without pre-existing lowered immune systems, the virus runs it's course, if we were basically healthy to begin with and not really old, or really young, and then compromised with other conditions.  Hopefully that make sense.

 

We advocate for using lot's of non-drug coping skills to help reversing and coping with WD symptoms. 

We have a whole Symptoms and Self Care forum devoted to this.  You may have seen it, as you've found your way about the site now pretty well.

 

I think it's up to you, based on how you have done, with your previous intervals, after a taper, as to if you want to taper, on your somewhat accelerated schedule(in comparison to our general protocols), right now.  If you are in a continuous state of symptoms, including stress responses, if it were me, well.....I'd wait a while longer, and just HOLD longer at my present dose.  And man, I am sure hoping things do settle down real soon, for all our sakes, with the CoronaVirus outbreaks and the losses of human lives from that.  I don't know when that might be.

 

And that's why I asked how you were doing?  Is the 20% taper plan going well?  Are you experiencing any WD symptoms, such as increased stress responses? 

Things like sleeping okay?  Ability to deal with life and function okay.......maybe needed to cut back a bit, while healing.......but getting through the day to day okay?

And then how have you managed the past few years to get through any other infections, especially of the viral type?  Do they run their course in 10-14 days without consequence?

 

I mean, Covid19, in itself is not a lethal disease, as far as I know, for the generally healthy set or individual.

 

I may have gone on, a bit too long here.  And apologies, if not helpful.  I wanted to post an awesome stress response chart, here too......that illustrates what I said around that.  Perhaps another time?

 

Wishing you much healing magnesi,

Love, peace, and growth,

mmt

Edited by manymoretodays
additional link to Karma's introduction, spacing, S and S care link

Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal ,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once(Provigil,) Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic  2016 December 9- completely off all medications!!!!!

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= 1800 mg/day. Magnesium complex, orally, diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C, D3, and E.  B12, melatonin tapered to 1mg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=400 mcg plus daily spinach. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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manymoretodays
5 hours ago, magnesi said:

Regarding my question about the effect of AD withdrawal on our immunity, it is pertinent given the situation we are experiencing in Europe. Do you know if withdrawal involves a lowering of our immunity?

 

Hi again magnesi,

Topic started in Symptoms and Self care:

Coronavirus and psychiatric drug tapering

 


Started with psycho meds circa 1988 I think 27 or 28 total.

AD's, antpsychotics, antiseizure mood stabilizers. Lithium, lamictal ,benzos, and stimulants. Some med. for narcolepsy once(Provigil,) Gabapentin........probably more.  Ask me?......I probably was on it.  Haphazard W/D's by Dr. recommend or uneducated self.

10/2014- off Lexapro--had been on highest dose 10 mg. then 5 mg. for a couple of years, went from 5 mg. to 3 mg. liquid and then CT in hospital(voluntary).  I got out of the hospital on a combination of low dose adderal salts x1/day and trileptal 150mg. x2/day.

5/28/2015-off Adderal salts 2.5mg. (I had been on that since hospital 10/2014)

12/2015---just holding, holding, holding, with trileptal/oxcarb at 75 mg. 1/2 tab at hs.  My last psycho med ever!

 

3/21/2016---I did some unwise updosing of trileptal/oxcarbazepine with some stressful stuff......doubled the above dose x2 during this last wave but began liquifying again and on approximately 68mg. starting today.  11/12//2016 24 mg. oxcarbazepine  12/9/2016 off oxcarbazepine/trileptal!!!! :) optimistic  2016 December 9- completely off all medications!!!!!

Omega3's,EPA +DHA= 1800 mg/day. Magnesium complex, orally, diluted in a liter of H2O(that I can shake up.....it usually dissolves more completely as the water gets down to room temperature) and/or Epsom salt baths prn.   Vit. C, D3, and E.  B12, melatonin tapered to 1mg., and bioidentical hormones sublingually.  Trace mineral drops.  L-lysine.  L-methylfolate=400 mcg plus daily spinach. Totally ready for a good long window to hit soon and getting better strings of full days and partial days along the way.  Definite improvement overall since I first arrived on the SA survivor ship.  Herb and alcohol free since 5/15/2016.  None of my posts are intended as medical advice.  Please discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical provider. manymoretodays

 

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FindRest

Magnesi, I would strongly encourage you to slow down your taper, especially since you are getting so close to the end. It’s this last leg where you actually need to go slower. If I could do it all over again, I wish I could go back to last August and worked myself down to less than 1mg per day. That is my plan this time. Jumping off too early usually causes many WD effects and it is very hard to get stabilized once again. You’ve made it this far and have done a good job. Don’t rush it in the end here. 
 

There is a study posted here that shows how a very small amount of each AD affects like 80% of the neurotransmitters in your brain. It really reinforced in me the importance of tapering those last milligrams very, very carefully.


1988-1996  Various AD’s, all classifications.  

1996-2019  Effexor XR 37.5mg to 150mg. Jan 2017 onward, 37.5 mg.

2019  Apr 11: Latuda 20mg added to Effexor.  Apr 22: L to 40mg.  May 14: L to 20mg.  May 27: L to 10 mg for 3 days then ct (dr’s orders). Continue Effexor 37.5.  Jun 10: Rexulti .5 mg added. Incr to 1mg.  Jun 15: Rex to .5mg.  Jul 1-24: taper Rex to .25mg over couple of weeks then off.  Jul 24: CT Effexor (per dr’s orders)  Sep 9-19: Viibryd (low dose, not sure mg), CT (dr’s orders).  Sep 23-27: Trintellix (low dose). CT (dr’s orders).  Sep 28:  Prozac 10mg.  Oct 24:  Began rapid taper off Prozac (every other day for wk) began Pristiq 25mg for 10 days, then 50mg after that.  Dec 31-Jan 31, 2020:  Pristiq 25mg. 

2020  Feb 1: CT Pristiq due to serious side effects incl high BP w pre-existing heart condition.   Feb 1: Effexor XR (10 large beads from 37.5 capsule).  Feb 3: 14 L beads.  Feb 15: 14 L beads+2 med beads.  Feb 17: 15L + 5M beads (25mgbw or 7.56mgai).

Current: Mar 1, 2020: Effexor XR (15 large beads + 7 medium beads, 30mgbw or 9.072mgai)

 

Other current meds: Ambien 10mg nightly (2012), clonazepam .125mg nightly (May, 2019), omeprazole 20mg (alt w famotidine 20mg, since Oct 2019), Synthroid 125 mcg (1985), Premarin .625mg (2002), Miralax capful/day (2014), fluticasone nasal once/day (mid-2018), cetirizine 10mg nightly (late-2018) .  Supplements: D3 25mcg, probiotic

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magnesi

Hello all, thank you for your advice; I finished my Effexor taper last week at 3% of my initial dose. I'm feeling ok except for joint pain. It gets better when I take an anti-inflammatory but I can only do it from time to time of course. Do you know if antidepressant withdrawal can cause symptoms similar to those of rheumatoid arthritis? I read that antidepressants can "help" with this condition so I imagine that they mess with that...


Antidepressants - Effexor 150mg since April 2015 (previously Dumyrox 50mg during  8.5 years). Started tapering on Jan 2019. Jumped at 5mg on Sep 3, 2020. Feeling OK with some joint pain.

Benzodiazepine - Ativan 1mg daily during 18 years. Started tapering Sep 2017. Benzo free since Sep 2018. Recurrent and often intense muscle and joint pain during the taper, particularly during the first half.

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FindRest

Muscle and joint pain have been some of my worst withdrawal symptoms. Many, many others in withdrawal say the same thing.


1988-1996  Various AD’s, all classifications.  

1996-2019  Effexor XR 37.5mg to 150mg. Jan 2017 onward, 37.5 mg.

2019  Apr 11: Latuda 20mg added to Effexor.  Apr 22: L to 40mg.  May 14: L to 20mg.  May 27: L to 10 mg for 3 days then ct (dr’s orders). Continue Effexor 37.5.  Jun 10: Rexulti .5 mg added. Incr to 1mg.  Jun 15: Rex to .5mg.  Jul 1-24: taper Rex to .25mg over couple of weeks then off.  Jul 24: CT Effexor (per dr’s orders)  Sep 9-19: Viibryd (low dose, not sure mg), CT (dr’s orders).  Sep 23-27: Trintellix (low dose). CT (dr’s orders).  Sep 28:  Prozac 10mg.  Oct 24:  Began rapid taper off Prozac (every other day for wk) began Pristiq 25mg for 10 days, then 50mg after that.  Dec 31-Jan 31, 2020:  Pristiq 25mg. 

2020  Feb 1: CT Pristiq due to serious side effects incl high BP w pre-existing heart condition.   Feb 1: Effexor XR (10 large beads from 37.5 capsule).  Feb 3: 14 L beads.  Feb 15: 14 L beads+2 med beads.  Feb 17: 15L + 5M beads (25mgbw or 7.56mgai).

Current: Mar 1, 2020: Effexor XR (15 large beads + 7 medium beads, 30mgbw or 9.072mgai)

 

Other current meds: Ambien 10mg nightly (2012), clonazepam .125mg nightly (May, 2019), omeprazole 20mg (alt w famotidine 20mg, since Oct 2019), Synthroid 125 mcg (1985), Premarin .625mg (2002), Miralax capful/day (2014), fluticasone nasal once/day (mid-2018), cetirizine 10mg nightly (late-2018) .  Supplements: D3 25mcg, probiotic

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ChessieCat
1 hour ago, magnesi said:

I finished my Effexor taper last week at 3% of my initial dose.

 

What dose did you stop at?  Please add the date and last dose you took to your drug signature.


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 12 Sept 2020:  Pristiq 0.625 mg (compounded)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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ChessieCat
On 3/14/2020 at 3:34 AM, magnesi said:

I began the taper with 10% cuts every month and then a few months ago I increased them to 20%. I know the thread tips for tapering off effexor, thank you. I posted there to try to understand when would I be able to jump but got very little help. Lately, one member called superwoman kindly told me that people are supposed to jump at around 1mg but I don't know if that is valid for every antidepressant. I'm planning to jump at 5% of my initial dose (i.e. at 7.5 mg venlafaxine)

 

SA generally recommends going down well below 1mg before stopping your drug. 

 

Please see this topic:  when-to-end-the-taper-and-jump-to-zero

 

You have been tapering too quickly.  You might want to consider reinstating and holding for a while.

 

See Post #1 of this topic:  About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

1 hour ago, magnesi said:

I'm feeling ok except for joint pain.

 

See No 56 on this list:  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

 


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 12 Sept 2020:  Pristiq 0.625 mg (compounded)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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ChessieCat

Please check out the sub-topics linked in this topic: are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 


Being very patient.  I'll get there - slowly.  ETA mid 2021

ADs:  25 years - 1 unknown, Prozac (caused muscle weakness), Zoloft/sertraline; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after)

Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (mild Serotonin Toxicity)

Began tapering Oct 2015  Current from 12 Sept 2020:  Pristiq 0.625 mg (compounded)

My tapering program

My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)

My website - includes my brief history + links to videos & information on the web

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.

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magnesi
11 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

SA generally recommends going down well below 1mg before stopping your drug. 

 

Please see this topic:  when-to-end-the-taper-and-jump-to-zero

 

You have been tapering too quickly.  You might want to consider reinstating and holding for a while.

 

See Post #1 of this topic:  About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

 

See No 56 on this list:  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

 

Hello, I'll update my profile but my question is not about the dose, I'm OK with that and I don't appreciate being treated like a child. My doubt is about joint pain.

Edited: I find it incredibly irresponsible to suggest to someone who has just left the medicines and SAYS SHE IS DOING OK to take them again...

 


Antidepressants - Effexor 150mg since April 2015 (previously Dumyrox 50mg during  8.5 years). Started tapering on Jan 2019. Jumped at 5mg on Sep 3, 2020. Feeling OK with some joint pain.

Benzodiazepine - Ativan 1mg daily during 18 years. Started tapering Sep 2017. Benzo free since Sep 2018. Recurrent and often intense muscle and joint pain during the taper, particularly during the first half.

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Erell
23 minutes ago, magnesi said:

Hello, I'll update my profile but my question is not about the dose, I'm OK with that and I don't appreciate being treated like a child. My doubt is about joint pain.

Edited: I find it incredibly irresponsible to suggest to someone who has just left the medicines and SAYS SHE IS DOING OK to take them again...

 

 

Hello Magnesi, 

 

Please remember that all moderators here are volunteer and are going through WD too.

 

We are not here to treat people like children, but to promote an harm reduction approach.

 

Our suggestions are only suggestions and come from thousand testimonies we have from people who've been there before us. 

With those testimonies we try to improve our knowledge of the process and highlight patterns and ways to limit risks.

 

Thanks to these testimonies, we have noticed that it is best to go very low in dose before jumping to 0 (people often jump below 0.1mg).

 

The only way we know to mitigate withdrawal symptoms is to reinstate a low dose of the drug, that is why it was suggested to you

 

12 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

You might want to consider reinstating and holding for a while.

 

We also noticed that after a fast taper, people can get through a honeymoon period and then get hit by strong symptoms.

 

We don't wanna see people suffer, that's why we make suggestions : they are only suggestions.

 

About joint pain, it is a very common WD symptom and you might find this thread interesting

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17848-muscle-and-joint-stiffness-aches-and-pain/

 

 

As you are not interested by reinstatement, this thread can be important to understand that recovery from WD symptoms is often slow and gradual  :

12 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Please check out the sub-topics linked in this topic: are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

 

Take care.

 


2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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magnesi
10 hours ago, Erell said:

 

Hello Magnesi, 

 

Please remember that all moderators here are volunteer and are going through WD too.

 

We are not here to treat people like children, but to promote an harm reduction approach.

 

Our suggestions are only suggestions and come from thousand testimonies we have from people who've been there before us. 

With those testimonies we try to improve our knowledge of the process and highlight patterns and ways to limit risks.

 

Thanks to these testimonies, we have noticed that it is best to go very low in dose before jumping to 0 (people often jump below 0.1mg).

 

The only way we know to mitigate withdrawal symptoms is to reinstate a low dose of the drug, that is why it was suggested to you

 

 

We also noticed that after a fast taper, people can get through a honeymoon period and then get hit by strong symptoms.

 

We don't wanna see people suffer, that's why we make suggestions : they are only suggestions.

 

About joint pain, it is a very common WD symptom and you might find this thread interesting

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/17848-muscle-and-joint-stiffness-aches-and-pain/

 

 

As you are not interested by reinstatement, this thread can be important to understand that recovery from WD symptoms is often slow and gradual  :

 

Take care.

 

 

Thank you for the reference on joint pain Erell, it was very useful.

 

Regarding the vast experience of survinvingantidepressants, I certainly recognize it, otherwise I wouldn't be here. But to be honest I have often noticed some rigidity in the answers to my doubts. I realize that you have experience of many many cases but if you reject feedback that is not 100% in accordance with the rules you derived from that experience, the experience will become less representative of reality, don't you think? We all have different bodies, lifestyles and goals. Is it not natural that the withdrawal process can vary from person to person? For me to go down to 1mg is unnecessary suffering. I feel good enough to end up here and I’ve inclusively accelerated the taper in the last few months. In the past two months I was already cutting 50% at a time and before that I was cutting 25%. The same thing happened to me with the benzodiazepine, in the end I managed to cut faster. I think it was possible because I had made a careful taper, always listening to my body, and so I healed a lot while tapering...

 

All the best


Antidepressants - Effexor 150mg since April 2015 (previously Dumyrox 50mg during  8.5 years). Started tapering on Jan 2019. Jumped at 5mg on Sep 3, 2020. Feeling OK with some joint pain.

Benzodiazepine - Ativan 1mg daily during 18 years. Started tapering Sep 2017. Benzo free since Sep 2018. Recurrent and often intense muscle and joint pain during the taper, particularly during the first half.

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Erell

Hello Magnesi,

 

You're right, every WD journey is individual. And nobody knows why, but there are people who can taper faster than others. 

I personally know someone who has tapered Effexor in 4months and is doing perfectly fine 2 years later. 

 

The thing is, nobody can predict how one's journey will be. One could taper faster than recommended, but it could also be hell. 

And honestly it doesnt worth the risk.

 

All we can do is try to learn from others and minimize the risks. 

That's the approach on SA, because we have unfortunately discovered how extreme symptoms can be, and we don't want to see others going through this.

 

Reinstatement/ sloooow tapers are part of a toolkit we suggest to try to avoid painful symptoms, to go off drugs as safely as possible.

 

But honestly Magnesi, I'm really glad to know you're doing ok (even if suffering from joint pain), and all I wish is that you can go back to your life and write your Success Story here one day ☺

 

Take care  ☀️


2006 : 20mg Paroxetine + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2008 : cold turkey of both

2010 : 20mg Deroxat + Bromazepam(no specific dose) 

2013: Switch from Bromazepam To Prazepam (long half-life)

2014-June2017 : Prazepam taper, 3% drops. 

2018 to August 2019 : weaning Paroxetine 20mg. 3% every 15 days.

- 22nd August updosed To 10mg (was at 8.4mg) because of a big wave. 

25th Sept 2019 To April 2020 : found SA, holding at 10mg Paroxetine. 

 

April 2020-August 2020 : Paxil to Prozac bridge. Details https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/21457-erell-struggling-with-paroxetine/?do=findComment&comment=499847

 

Current Supplements : magnesium citrate/ fish oil/ evening primrose oil 

Current medication : 7mg Fluoxetine + 1mg Diazepam + toothpick Paroxetine 

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magnesi
On 9/18/2020 at 1:12 PM, Erell said:

Hello Magnesi,

 

You're right, every WD journey is individual. And nobody knows why, but there are people who can taper faster than others. 

I personally know someone who has tapered Effexor in 4months and is doing perfectly fine 2 years later. 

 

The thing is, nobody can predict how one's journey will be. One could taper faster than recommended, but it could also be hell. 

And honestly it doesnt worth the risk.

 

All we can do is try to learn from others and minimize the risks. 

That's the approach on SA, because we have unfortunately discovered how extreme symptoms can be, and we don't want to see others going through this.

 

Reinstatement/ sloooow tapers are part of a toolkit we suggest to try to avoid painful symptoms, to go off drugs as safely as possible.

 

But honestly Magnesi, I'm really glad to know you're doing ok (even if suffering from joint pain), and all I wish is that you can go back to your life and write your Success Story here one day ☺

 

Take care  ☀️

Thank you, all the best


Antidepressants - Effexor 150mg since April 2015 (previously Dumyrox 50mg during  8.5 years). Started tapering on Jan 2019. Jumped at 5mg on Sep 3, 2020. Feeling OK with some joint pain.

Benzodiazepine - Ativan 1mg daily during 18 years. Started tapering Sep 2017. Benzo free since Sep 2018. Recurrent and often intense muscle and joint pain during the taper, particularly during the first half.

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