pjj87: Stopped taking Brintellix and Abilify

[pjj87]

Hello,

 

I happened to find this site a few days ago and it literally saved my life as I had decided to commit a suicide. Success stories gave me some hope so thank you. I stopped taking brintellix and abilify in early september, I think. I can't even remember that exactly. So I have been off the drugs for about a month, maybe a little more. The doses were 5 mg both. 

 

Last week was probably the most horrible time I've experienced in my life so far. I've had very little physical symptoms after I stopped taking these drugs but the mental stuff has been bad, especially during last week. Really intrusive suicidal thoughts were the worst. 

 

Now that I've read some information on these forums, I'm really scared it will just get worse. The doses were too high when I stopped and I shouldn't have stopped both of the drugs at the same time, right? How likely this will get worse? I know it's probably hard to tell but I thought I'd ask anyway...

 

I'm feeling really depressed at the moment, no motivation or willpower to do anything. No suicidal thoughts though. Massive feelings of shame and guiltiness. At times I'm freaking out when I think about last week and if it gets even worse than that. I don't know if I can survive that. At the moment it feels like getting off the drugs is not worth it. Nothing will ever get better anyway. At the same time I don't want to get back on drugs because i vomited every day during the last month or so taking them and wasn't feeling that good otherwise either. Really mixed feelings.

 

Sorry for giving so little information and not creating a signature but I have trouble remembering what I took, when and how much. I will try to do that later if I'm able to. I just thought I'd make my first post to get things started, so to say. I don't know what else to write now. I will try to come back later and give more information about my situation. If you could ask me questions, it would probably be easier for me to tell things and then it would be easier for you to give me advice. If someone could take the time to do that, I would really appreciate it. Thank you in advance.

 

 

[baroquep]

Hi pjj77,

 

Welcome to Surviving Antidepressants, I am really glad that you found the site before you did anything drastic.  There must have been someone up there looking out for you as I'm a firm believer that most things happen for a reason and glad that you are here, though sorry to hear that you were feeling so desperate.  Please note that what you are experiencing, while difficult, is completely normal under the circumstances.  It is never recommended to abruptly stop taking a psychotropic drug as the central nervous system has learned to adapt to its presence by making changes to the way it functions and when the drug is removed too quickly, the CNS is unable to adapt quickly enough and oftentimes this results in withdrawal syndrome.  

 

What is Withdrawal Syndrome?

 

A few questions:

Were you discontinuing these drugs under the supervision of your doctor?

Why were you taking an antipsychotic?

What are your current symptoms?

You mention vomiting  when taking your dose - please elaborate.  

 

Try not to scare yourself by reading too much into your situation, not all of the information on this site will necessarily apply to you or in your specific circumstance.  

 

I hope that you can appreciate that before we are able to provide information specific to your situation, it is important that you try and summarize your withdrawal/drug history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months in particular?  We ask all members to provide their drug history as a signature.  This will be a permanent part of your introduction and It helps moderators to be able to see all of your details at a glance.  You can find the information on how to complete your signature at the link below:
 
Instructions:  Withdrawal History Signature
 
    •    Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
    •    A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
    •    Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
    •    Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
    •    Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.

[pjj87]

Hi baroquep,

 

Thank you and I'm also glad that I found this site. I'm feeling better today so I'll try to give more information and create a proper signature. 

 

I stopped taking these drugs after asking my doctor if it was safe to stop from those doses. He said yes. I didn't ask if it was safe to stop both of the drugs at the same time though but somehow I assumed it would be because he didn't tell me not to do that.

 

I went to student healthcare in 2011 mainly because of depression and anxiety. I had a few panic attacks as well. I felt quite unreal and was having some paranoid thoughts too. I was then prescribed citalopram and opamox and started taking them. I'm not entirely sure but I think after starting citalopram I began to feel more unreal but I didn't realize it might have been caused by citalopram at the time. After having some appointments with a psychologist at student healthcare, I was directed to a psychiatric clinic. The doctor there said I need an antipsychotic and prescribed risperidone. I was hesitant and asked if that's really necessary. He said yes and got me convinced that it would help me so I started taking risperidone too. Over the years there have been some changes with my drugs. Citalopram was changed to venlafaxine, risperidone to abilify, then abilify to olanzapine, olanzapine back to abilify and last change was venlafaxine to brintellix.

 

I have very little symptoms today. I'm feeling tired and weak and have some trouble thinking what to write. I'm glad to be in such a good condition at the moment. I'm trying not to worry too much about it getting worse again.

 

About the vomiting, it started in July when brintellix was updosed from 10 mg to 15 mg. First it didn't happen every day but I went back to 10 mg anyway. The vomiting became more frequent and after waiting some time I started taking only 5 mg in August. I skipped a dose sometimes to make sure it was brintellix doing it. I never vomited on those days but every day when I took brintellix it happened. 

 

Sorry but that's all I can think of right now. I'm starting to get exhausted and I need to save some energy for other things. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by baroquep

[pjj87]

I created a sig. It's probably nowhere near as accurate as it should be but that's the best I could do

[Plshelp]

How long were you on the abilify for? 

 

Why were you prescribed these meds? 

[pjj87]

2 hours ago, Plshelp said:

How long were you on the abilify for? 

 

Why were you prescribed these meds? 

I started taking abilify in 2013, can't say more accurately. I guess I should try to find my medical reports but I'm not even sure if I have them anymore.

 

I was prescribed these meds for depression, anxiety, panic attacks, unreal feeling and paranoid thoughts. Everything started with insomnia. I was diagnosed with psychotic depression. I might have exaggerated things a little because I was scared that they wouldn't take me seriously... Which makes it all my own fault, I guess... But I had my reasons to be scared and I needed some kind of help. I would have probably been better off without this kind of "help" though. I feel like these drugs have been holding me back in life because I just didn't care anymore about anything which lead to some bad decisions and living passively. I just didn't realize it earlier. I was so stupid...

 

I'm still feeling relatively good, mild depression and anxiety maybe but the tiredness was massive. I went to lay on the couch at 7 pm just to get a little bit of rest. Well, I woke up almost 3 hours later. I guess I won't get sleep very early during the night. Not that it matters so much. I don't have a job anyway. I haven't studied or worked for six years....

[baroquep]

Hi again,

 

Thank you for the additional information, it is certainly going to be helpful in determining what the best course of action is.  Unfortunately, both of the medications that you were taking should have been tapered off of slowly so that your central nervous system had the opportunity to adjust to the change in dose before eventually discontinuing.  Unfortunately is appears that some doctors are unnecessarily prescribing Ability as an adjunct to an antidepressant when the patient doesn't respond well to the antidepressant and while 5mg may not seem like a very high dose, compared to other drugs, milligram for milligram, it is a powerful drug.   As well, when a person has been antidepressants long-term or has switched back and forth between drugs, such as you have, we aren't sure why, but it puts you at a higher risk for developing withdrawal syndrome.  

 

How did you taper Effexor from 300mg to 37.5mg in late 2016?  

Did you jump off of Effexor at 37.5mg in March 2017?

When did you first start experiencing withdrawal symptoms?

Did you experience withdrawal symptoms during the period you stopped Effexor in March 2017 and then started the Brintellix in May 2017? 

What about when you reduced the Brintellix from 15mg to 10mg (July 2017) and then to 5mg in August 2017?

 

I may have additional questions once I've had a chance to consult with the other moderators but do want to discuss your situation with them before making any specific recommendations. 

[pjj87]

First I reduced from 300 mg to 225 mg. I held that dose for about a month. Then reduced to 150 mg and held that for about a month too. After that I reduced to 75 mg and waited about a month again. I think it was early february 2017 when I started taking 75 mg every second day as my doctor told me to. I don't remember having much withdrawal symptoms before that. When taking 75 mg every second day I experienced withdrawal symptoms, the days when I didn't take it were worse. I tried to cope with the symptoms for a week or two but then I called my doctor and asked him to prescribe 37,5 mg capsules. He prescribed them and I started to take 37,5 mg every day and started to feel better almost immediately. In march 2017 I stopped taking venlafaxine at 37,5 mg. First there wasn't anything dramatic but things escalated quickly and in april I was already in major depression. After trying to fight against it for a little while, I thought it's better to ask my doctor what I should do before it gets worse. He told me about brintellix and said it should have less side effects and would be easier to get off than venlafaxine. I didn't experience withdrawal symptoms while reducing brintellix except getting a little more depressed again. The horror started after discontinuing but it didn't last very long. I'm still not feeling too bad but I'm starting to think that my only problem is that I'm too lazy to make enough effort to make my life better. I really shouldn't complain as what I've read, there are people on this site suffering way more than I am...

[baroquep]

Wow, those are pretty hefty decreases and it's not surprising that you are feeling the way you are.  I'm not sure why but doctors often advise alternating days and this is something that is never recommended as this practice tends to throw you right into withdrawal.  It is better to have a steady amount of the drug in your system every day and to taper off carefully and then jumping off at 37.5mg was just far too high a dose for your central nervous system to adapt to and the reason you were having so much difficulty.  

I have a feeling that while your symptoms may have been relatively mild when you first began reducing Effexor, they managed to catch up to you when your doctor started alternating the days.  And unfortunately your well-meaning but misguided doctor started you on Brintellix and Ability to try and calm the withdrawal from the quick taper off of Effexor.  I am currently tapering off of Effexor and it is a beast to withdrawal from and very unforgiving if you aren't careful.  

 

What symptoms are your currently experiencing?

Did you also discontinue Ability when you stopped Effexor in March 2017?  

Or did you taper from Abilify 30mg in Nov 2016 to Abiify 5mg when you finally discontinued it in September 2017?  (the details regarding Abilify are not clear from your signature)  

 

[pjj87]

I am very tired. I'm not really feeling or experiencing anything. I wonder why. I would like to feel something. Maybe feeling nothing is better than being in pain though. I was tapering from abilify this entire time. 30 -> 20 -> 10 -> 5 -> 0. I don't remember dates but I was on 5 mg for about 3 months maybe before discontinuing. Hopefully your tapering goes well. 

[baroquep]

Tapering Ability and Effexor so aggressively has likely sent you into withdrawal and by adding the Brintellex to an already sensitized central nervous system has just made things worse.  I am going to attach a few links so that you have an understanding of the recommendations made by Surviving Antidepressants to give you an idea as to how carefully these drugs need to be tapered when we've been on them long-term.

 

What is Withdrawal Syndrome?
Before you begin tapering what you need to know

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?
 

Tips for Tapering off Abilify / Arpiprazole
Tips for Tapering off Celexa / Citalopram

 

The only known way to alleviate withdrawal symptoms at this time is to reinstate a very small amount of the original drug (Effexor and/or Ability) back into your system, hold until you are stabilized and then taper safely off of the drug(s).  Because you discontinued Effexor back in March 2017, reinstatement comes with risks and benefits, but you might want to look at our topic regarding reinstatement and see if this is something that you might want to consider.  

 

At present, I am consulting with other more experienced moderators as to whether reinstatement of one (or both) of these drugs will help.  I am not familiar with Abilify and need to consult with someone who has more experience with antipsychotics.  

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms
What to Expect in Reinstatement (James Heaney article)

The emotions or lack thereof are a common withdrawal symptom Anhedonia / Apathy / Demotivation / Emotional Numbness.

 

 

[pjj87]

Thank you for all the information, baroquep.

 

I got what I wanted... I mean emotions. My parents were in town and asked if they could visit. Due to lack of any emotions I was like "whatever, come if you want". So they came and it didn't take long until I was very annoyed by their presence. That escalated quickly into a feeling of wanting to yell them to get the hell out or something like that. Somehow I managed to keep myself relatively calm, maybe because I knew that they weren't going to stay that long. My parents are actually great people and have helped me a lot so feeling something like that about them upsets me. Fortunately I didn't say or do anything that I would regret later. Phew. I'm confused as the feeling was so intense. 

[baroquep]

this might help explain ... Neuro Emotions

 

Not to alarm you but I want you to be aware that your symptoms could get more intense as time goes by and the reasons for this is explained at the link below.    

 

Withdrawal Symptoms - Delayed Onset

[Altostrata]

Hello, pj. How are you feeling now?

 

Would you say your withdrawal symptoms have been gradually getting better or worse over the last month?

 

How is your sleep now? 

 

When people have been on these drugs for a long time, they often have emotional anesthesia after they go off the drugs. This should very gradually lift over some months.

[Plshelp]

9 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Hello, pj. How are you feeling now?

 

Would you say your withdrawal symptoms have been gradually getting better or worse over the last month?

 

How is your sleep now? 

 

When people have been on these drugs for a long time, they often have emotional anesthesia after they go off the drugs. This should very gradually lift over some months.

PJ, 

I've been off 3 months and haven't seen any improvements. I have a lot wrong with me and idk how to get thru the days anymore. 

 

Please update us. 

[pjj87]

Hello Altostrata, I'm ok at the moment. Thank you for asking.

 

There have been ups and downs but I'd say the symptoms have been getting better. Today the only symptoms I have are tiredness and some pressure-like sensation in my head. Sleep is not that good. Maybe about 4 hours per night on average. 

 

Plshelp, I'm sorry to hear that. Hopefully you will see improvements soon.