EFXRob Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 While I am feeling unsteady as I re institute 300 mg of Effexor... I am getting a new understanding of my past experiences of stopping medications at different times and for different reasons. In the past I have been totally relived to have gone back onto treatment... and once everything is working smoothly again... often taking up to 16 weeks to smooth out... I relied on the "amnesia" of the drug to allow me to stop questioning it...and feel that I was getting on with life at an ok level...which was better than feeling beyond dreadful... It has always amazed my when I have been overseas to think back maybe 12 months and realise I was a basket case who could barely cross the street... These are pretty powerful understandings...and hard to contradict at the time in terms of "benefits" of the drug... So here I am, dosed up and feeling there is a way out through very slow taper...which I knew nothing of in the past.. or if I did, assumed it meant a couple of months... Maybe its easy to be confident when I am still on the other side of this big new project that looms in front of me...(my new year...) Is it right to assume that if we feel "calm" at the beginning of each drop, and make each drop small (ie 5%)... then the more likely we can reduce that component without undue withdrawal and long term damage... So, would a good measure of feeling OK to start the first drop be that I am working effectively (and maintaining a earning capacity), and that I am having a"normal" level of social interaction without too much fear... Both these are difficult at the moment, but improved since I re instituted about 18 days ago... So I doubt if, by that criteria, I would even be considering a drop for several months... Maybe those with experience can let me know if this is the best way to be thinking about my short term strategy... ...and for Friday, I am getting ready for my first visit to the shrink for two years... Things have been very good for two years... and I felt there was nothing he could add... but when I got into strife recently following an abrupt adjustment, my GP insisted I go back and see him... I don't know how he will react to my short term strategy... ie get balanced... then start with a small reduction... In the past I have always gone back in a "grateful" mode; glad there was something I could take for the way I was feeling... which i now understand was a withdrawal syndrome in full force... I'm thinking I want to avoid telling him " what for"... (although very tempting)... but rather stay "sane and rational"... and ask what he thinks about my strategy and if he cant support it..,and if not, maybe he can refer me to a doc who can.... While so many people report that it is very hard to find a doc who agrees with the proposition of withdrawal syndrome and understand very slow tapering... I think it also equally hard to find doctors who do... they seem invisible to me, yet they are obviously out there, even in my own city.... Plan A, is to sound out current doc... but Plan B is to source a replacement doc.... Meanwhile I need patience... Ciao for now Gerard Ativan: quite 1990 96-2001: Aropax (Paxil), Luvox. two CTs (bad) 2001-2012: 300 Effexor Nov 2011: 25%, 2 week reduction (v bad) Dec:2011" reinstate to 300mg (Chronic pain condition, well managed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexjuice Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 In my experience finding a good doctor has presented challenges. I am with a doctor now who doesn't believe in w/d but writes my benzo prescription. My advice would be to use your current relationship to get the dosage you need to stabilize and interview other doctors looking for one who supports your plan to taper patiently. I have not had any trouble speaking with most doctors on the telephone to briefly ask if they would support.a my medication intentions. Sometimes I am only able to speak to an office assistant but even then I can usually find the information I need. I know that this isn't always the case. It's rarely the case with doctors working with service agencies or large psychiatric factories. But I know my way around the phone book and have had good luck just calling. Also, calling counselors/therapists in private practice has been fruitful as they are very likely to both a. Work with a few psychiatrists and b. call you back. So sometimes Ive cold called psychs and explained my dilemma and asked if they had a referral. These people love referring clients to their favorite partners in crime. I'm sure the psychiatrists try to pay the referral back. Btw, all of my calls were for Benzos which I still take. Since benzos are at least recognized as addictive, doctors have been willing to discuss how the discontinue their patients. They could easily become befuddled if you call asking about ADs... "Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me. Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there Everybody's got to move somewhere Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow Things should start to get interesting right about now." - Zimmerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFXRob Posted January 2, 2012 Author Share Posted January 2, 2012 Yep; am re entering familiar territory. before Christmas I rang the detox clinic where I got free of all D&A and Ativan (benzo) 21 years ago... the interviewing person could not understand my question... "do they help people off ADs".... when I assume she understood ADs as an ajunct to addictions treament... I understood very quickly that we weren't talking about teh same thing... so i politely ended the conversation.... Ciao for now Gerard Ativan: quite 1990 96-2001: Aropax (Paxil), Luvox. two CTs (bad) 2001-2012: 300 Effexor Nov 2011: 25%, 2 week reduction (v bad) Dec:2011" reinstate to 300mg (Chronic pain condition, well managed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Gerard ~ I called the Betty Ford Clinic awhile back just for kicks After being transfered thru 5 perplexed people (afew who told me that YES they Use ADs for the depression and anxiety of detoxing benzos alcohol etc) not a one even comprehended my question of needing help to DC ADs It got kinda comical after awhile ~ Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Q: Isn't "good doctor" an oxymoron Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 2, 2012 Administrator Share Posted January 2, 2012 Hello, I moved this from Intros, which is only for introductions and updates, to Symptoms and What Helps, our forum for treatment options. Yes, it can be very difficult to find doctors who even get individually tailored tapering, much less treating withdrawal. But they are out there. We have a list here. If you find any, please add to it!! This is very important. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudius Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Q: Isn't "good doctor" an oxymoron Though I had a terrible experience with some doctors like many of us here, I do not want to go as far by declaring that there are no good doctors. Doctors saved my life years ago by removing my appendix. They also saved my mothers life. Probably doctors do a fairly good job in helping people with cancer, heart diseases and infections.I think we can safely state that there are virtually no good psychiatrists. And that the only exceptions are the ones who attack their own sick, corrupt and non-healing system, like dr. Healy, Breggin and the others. Just because psychiatriy is a non-scientifical medical pseudo-science were the human rights are violated, people are stigmatized and the real power lies in the hand of money-greedy and unscrupulous companies. 1 10 mg Paxil/Seroxat since 2002 several attempts to quit since 2004 Quit c/t again Oktober 2007, in protracted w/d since then after 3.5 years slight improvement but still on the road after 6 years pretty much recovered but still some nasty residual sypmtons after 8.5 years working again on a 90% base and basically functioning normally again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Karma Posted January 3, 2012 Administrator Share Posted January 3, 2012 My pdoc (actually a physician's assistant) is pretty good. She has never seen anxiety and depression as a withdrawal symptom ... before me ... but she will learn along with me because that is indeed what I had at the end of 2011. She has been open to learning all kinds of things that I've learned from working with a nutritionist while healing from celiac disease, hypothyroidism, yeast overgrowth syndrome and adrenal fatigue. She has been very supportive and encouraging while I've been weaning Effexor. Recently we have been making adjustments of just 6.25 mg and holding for a few weeks so that we could find the right level to eliminate my symptoms (which turned out to be withdrawal symptoms) and we finally got there after adjusting 18.75 mg (which meant changes over about 6 weeks or so). As a Physicians Assistant her patients are subject to review by the doctor ... the doctor left a note on my file asking what she was doing messing around with these 6.25 mg Effexor adjustments. She stood up to him and said that her patient is very sensitive and that these small changes were appropriate for my situation. She suggested to the doctor that he probably had patients who were sensitive ... she stood her ground and defended what I needed. I tell you this to suggest that you may need to find someone who you can work with, someone who is open to helping you wean off of Effexor. If you can bring in journal articles from this site and collaborate with a pdoc or physician's assistant to a pdoc then maybe together you can manage the taper off of Effexor without too much discomfort on your part. Karma 2007 @ 375 mg Effexor - 11/29/2011 - 43.75 mg Effexor (regular) & .625 mg Xanax 200 mg Gabapentin 2/27/21 - 194.5 mg, 5/28/21 - 183 mg, 8/2/21 - 170 mg, 11/28/21 - 150 mg, 4/19/22 - 122 mg; 8//7/22 - 100 mg; 12/17 - 75mg; 8/17 - 45 mg; 10/16 40 mg Xanax taper: 3/11/12 - 0.9375 mg, 3/25/12 - 0.875 mg, 4/6/12 - 0.8125 mg, 4/18/12 - 0.75 ; 10/16 40mg; 1/16 0.6875 mg; at some point 0.625 mg Effexor taper: 1/29/12 - 40.625 mg, 4/29/12 - 39.875 mg, 5/11/12 - Switched to liquid Effexor, 5/25/12 - 38 mg, 7/6/12 - 35 mg, 8/17/12 - 32 mg, 9/14/12 - 30 mg, 10/19/12 - 28 mg, 11/9/12 - 26 mg, 11/30/12 - 24 mg, 01/14/13 - 22 mg. 02/25/13 - 20.8 mg, 03/18/13 - 19.2 mg, 4/15/13 - 17.6 mg, 8/10/13 - 16.4 mg, 9/7/13 - 15.2 mg, 10/19/13 - 14 mg, 1/15/14 - 13.2 mg, 3/1/2014 - 12.6 mg, 5/4/14 - 12 mg, 8/1/14 - 11.4 mg, 8/29/14 - 10.8 mg; 10/14/14 - 10.2 mg; 12/15/14 - 10 mg, 1/11/15 - 9.5 mg, 2/8/15 - 9 mg, 3/21/15 - 8.5 mg, 5/1/15 - 8 mg, 6/9/15 - 7.5 mg, 7/8/15 - 7 mg, 8/22/15 - 6.5 mg, 10/4/15 - 6 mg; 1/1/16 - 5.6 mg; 2/6/16 - 5.2 mg; 4/9 - 4.8 mg; 7/7 4.5 mg; 10/7 4.25 mg; 11/4 4.0 mg; 11/25 3.8 mg; 4/24 3.6 mg; 5/27 3.4 mg; 7/8 3.2 mg ... 10/18 2.8 mg; 1/18 2.6 mg; 4/7 2.4 mg; 5/26 2.15mg; 8/18 1.85 mg; 10/7 1.7 mg; 12/1 1.45 mg; 3/2 1.2 mg; 5/4 0.90 mg; 6/1 0.80 mg; 6/22 0.65 mg; 08/03 0.50 mg, 08/10 0.45 mg, 10/05 0.325 mg, 11/23 0.2 mg, 12/14 0.15 mg, 12/21 0.125 mg, 02/28 0.03125 mg, 2/15 0.015625 mg, 2/29/20 0.00 mg - OFF Effexor I am not a medical professional - this is not medical advice. My suggestions are based on personal experience, reading, observation and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Karma~ Are you familiar with PANHYPOPITUITARISM My endo thinks im there but havent been able to do tests I'm sucking down Coke Classic like I need it for life support Reminds me of schizophrenics smoking Really weird --have never felt an addiction in my life even to opiates Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Also dopamine helps me A LOT --Vyvanse Abilify Tyrosine Phenylalanine (some cause jitters ) My horse has Cushings and pergolide is treatment (although we avoid it as long as possible) Ironic that I was in a genetics study for Equine Cushings Seeing doc this week to hopefully go in hospital and have all these tests done --Mayo Clinics were no help just basic ER testing I lost 40% of body weight in last few years and no doc looked into (140 down to 90) They just said 'eat more ' and 'its depression' Jerks Sorry --having a very angry day Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFXRob Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Karma; i like the attitude of your doc assistant... seems open to understanding and assisting.... Thew role of an assistant doctor is not one I am familiar with... but yes, will be looking for a discussion with my pysch on Friday... before moving to a more aggressive approach... no need to burn history until I understand that I am not being understood... Also...from you history and story... I understand that you have slowly withdrawn from Effexor without major symptoms till recently... wouldn't mind hear more about this... Regards Gerard Ativan: quite 1990 96-2001: Aropax (Paxil), Luvox. two CTs (bad) 2001-2012: 300 Effexor Nov 2011: 25%, 2 week reduction (v bad) Dec:2011" reinstate to 300mg (Chronic pain condition, well managed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFXRob Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Karma; i like the attitude of your doc assistant... seems open to understanding and assisting.... Thew role of an assistant doctor is not one I am familiar with... but yes, will be looking for a discussion with my pysch on Friday... before moving to a more aggressive approach... no need to burn history until I understand that I am not being understood... Also...from you history and story... I understand that you have slowly withdrawn from Effexor without major symptoms till recently... wouldn't mind hear more about this... Regards Gerard Ativan: quite 1990 96-2001: Aropax (Paxil), Luvox. two CTs (bad) 2001-2012: 300 Effexor Nov 2011: 25%, 2 week reduction (v bad) Dec:2011" reinstate to 300mg (Chronic pain condition, well managed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I prefer to work with Physician Assistants (NOT Medical Assistsnts --much diff education and schooling) and Certified Nurse Practitioners rather than docs -in most cases ~ PAs and CNPs are usually much easier to talk with and feel heard ~the ego is usually in check without needs to always be right And not challenged ~ Many docs will relegate the PA or CNP to 'drug rep duty' ~they get info and samples from reps and then pass on info to docs so not surprising that docs get even less accurate drug info Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFXRob Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Hi everyone; Today is the day when I see my PsycDoc for the first time for two years...When we have talked about discontinuing in the past, we have ended up arguing...am trying to prepare myself not to be arguementative, (even if my take on psych and drugs is based on self preservation); but rather se if he will constructively support me in a long, slow reduction or, if he cant refer me to someone in this city who has real experience and understanding with managing this stage... sadly the referral system we labour under here, means that like minded seem to refer to similarly like minded...Anyway.... I am trying to preserve an open mind till I see him..and see what constructive suggestion come my way... Ciao Gerard Ativan: quite 1990 96-2001: Aropax (Paxil), Luvox. two CTs (bad) 2001-2012: 300 Effexor Nov 2011: 25%, 2 week reduction (v bad) Dec:2011" reinstate to 300mg (Chronic pain condition, well managed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Gerard ~ I hope things went well~you probably know more than your doc about the meds and long term effects Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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