☼ RealMe: fighting depression/withdrawal from Abilify, Trintellix now on Prozac

[RealMe]

8 hours ago, wantrelief said:

I wanted you to know that I was happy to read of your improvements and I know there will be more to come down the road.

Thank you, WR!  Hope you are doing well.  I'll check your thread.

xo RM

[Happy2Heal]

just stopping by to say hi!
glad to read that there's progress. 

I wonder, though, if it's the tinnitus getting you down, of IF, just maybe, the depressed feeling is another symptom of wd/recovery that comes WITH the tinnitus...?

just tossing that out there as an idea.

 

a lot of times during recovery, our emotions are not really connected to things in the present, they are just a function of the brain sorting itself out and putting itself back to it's pre drugged state. I think that's what they call on this site "neuro emotions".

It's not always clear to me when I'm having those emotions and when I'm experiencing real ones, but it's getting easier to sort them out as time goes by.

 

I had an uptick in tinnitus the past few days, which I believe is due to an increase in stress in my life (some pet related stuff, nothing major except that my pets are important to me)

the ringing in my ears comes with anxiety and for the life of me, I can't tell if tinnitus is *causing* me to be anxious, or if tinnitus and anxiety are a combined wd/recovery symptom.

I also had a bit of a decrease in my appetite and more trouble sleeping.... so, who knows?

*shrug*

 

connecting with people on here who understand what I'm/we're going thru is a huge help. I would be lost without this site.
Even friends who have tried very hard to understand what I'm going thru just don't "get it" like those of us actually going thru it.

 

I hope that you see continued improvement.  you're showing so much strength in the meantime.

<3

 

[RealMe]

3 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

I wonder, though, if it's the tinnitus getting you down, of IF, just maybe, the depressed feeling is another symptom of wd/recovery that comes WITH the tinnitus...?

Hi H2H,

Always so good to hear from you.  Yes, I agree with you.   I think I still have WD "depression" (neuro emotions) as well as whatever tendencies I've always had in that regard -- with or without meds.  I'm trying anything and everything but meds.  I just wish I could exercise, but that always seems to ramp it up, and I'm afraid to try it.  We're back to the cold and rain so even a gentle walk is out.

[Shrike]

9 minutes ago, RealMe said:

I think I still have WD "depression"

Boy can I relate to this. I agree it is so very difficult to tell what's "real" and what is more of our brains just healing and recovering...

 

Just want to encourage you to keep trying things like you mentioned. One thing that helps me alot is telling myself that *usually* the absolute worst symptoms are over in a matter of mere hours. It's a bit of a mind game but if I tell myself "by this afternoon, I'll probably feel better..." it does seem to help or at least just help me distract myself to pass those "hours". 

[RealMe]

4 hours ago, GregoryReboot said:

One thing that helps me alot is telling myself that *usually* the absolute worst symptoms are over in a matter of mere hours.

Hi GR,

Thank you for that technique.  I will certainly try it.  I'm not kidding when I say I will put it right up there with the technique of "thinking of puppies and kittens" when the symptoms get really tough.  Thank you too for your encouragement.  I notice you were also on abilify and trintellix.  Detoxing from abilify was the absolute worst nightmare, and I am still feeling the effects of it, most noticeably dystonia and tremors in my voice and hands, sometimes arms and internally.  I CT'd before I found out how to taper safely from the moderators here.  My doctor said I could just stop because I was "only on a small amount."  He did guide me on tapering trintellix, but it was too fast, I've learned.  I've been withdrawing since August of 2017, and this site keeps me going.  I wish you the best with your goal of stabilizing and eventually tapering off your remaining ADs.

Best,

RM

[Shrike]

Good luck RealMe! Yes, I tapered too quickly as well like many who found this site after the fact. Oh well, we're here now :-) Looks like you are on a good path with the Prozac. Question on that. Did it "work" for you? Looks like maybe you started a small dose to stabilize? There are still moments, like my racing head at 3AM this morning, that I consider "going back". I struggle a lot with this. I almost need to make up my mind for good. I know some people on this site just say that "that is not an option for me", which I like. In my best moments, I am very glad that I am as far as I am being off the SSRI type meds! But then a wave hits me or more likely a bad symptom, and I start thinking about it. Arg! How do you think about it?

 

 

[RealMe]

1 hour ago, GregoryReboot said:

Good luck RealMe! Yes, I tapered too quickly as well like many who found this site after the fact. Oh well, we're here now :-) Looks like you are on a good path with the Prozac. Question on that. Did it "work" for you? Looks like maybe you started a small dose to stabilize? There are still moments, like my racing head at 3AM this morning, that I consider "going back". I struggle a lot with this. I almost need to make up my mind for good. I know some people on this site just say that "that is not an option for me", which I like. In my best moments, I am very glad that I am as far as I am being off the SSRI type meds! But then a wave hits me or more likely a bad symptom, and I start thinking about it. Arg! How do you think about it?

 

 

Hi GR,

Good to hear from you.  I'm in the "not an option" camp.  Even in my worst waves, I know ADs might provide temporary relief but most definitely will cause permanent side effects.  I already have enough of those.  I hate pain, so that is working in my favor at present.  As painful as waves can be, a lifetime of trying to find relief from my so-called chemical imbalance while going further and further down the rabbit hole is intolerable to me.  I'm going to give meds-free a good, long, long try.

Talking about my specific symptoms usually helps because there are many tools others suggest that I haven't yet tried.  How are you feeling today?

[RealMe]

On 2/25/2018 at 11:58 AM, Happy2Heal said:

I had an uptick in tinnitus the past few days, which I believe is due to an increase in stress in my life (some pet related stuff, nothing major except that my pets are important to me)

the ringing in my ears comes with anxiety and for the life of me, I can't tell if tinnitus is *causing* me to be anxious, or if tinnitus and anxiety are a combined wd/recovery symptom.

I also had a bit of a decrease in my appetite and more trouble sleeping.... so, who knows?

*shrug*

How are you doing today, H2H?  Thinking of you.

xo RM

[RealMe]

I was able to get up this morning and stay up.  Met a few friends for lunch, and though an effort to be sociable, I tried to be present. One of my friends is on a boatload of meds, and I find it very difficult to listen to the same deeply painful, unsolvable problems over and over.  I told her I'm going through AD withdrawal, but she took that as my saying she should stop her meds!!!  Of course, I told her I have no opinion or knowledge about anybody else's medical treatment, only my own.  I tried to be supportive, but It was exhausting.  Note to self: keep quiet about AD WD outside of this forum.  The other friends were easier to be with.

 

I spent the afternoon sleeping and reading but couldn't escape the tinnitus and down feelings.  I keep going through the list of what I ate that could have ramped it up.  Now trying to get lost in tv and computer.  I've been distant from my husband and feel guilty about that.  I told him I was trying to escape my symptoms, and he said that was ok.  Thank goodness, he is very tolerant of my moods.

[ChessieCat]

5 hours ago, RealMe said:

Met a few friends for lunch, and though an effort to be sociable, I tried to be present. One of my friends is on a boatload of meds, and I find it very difficult to listen to the same deeply painful, unsolvable problems over and over.

 

At least you met with a group and not just her.

[RealMe]

9 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

At least you met with a group and not just her.

Yes.  And I wonder what I will do about this friend.  It seems she has been so rejected by others because of her behavior, yet she continues to behave in ways that cause people to want to distance themselves from her.  It's a real squirrel cage for her, and I would like to be her friend without encouraging her to remain a victim.  I don't know if that's possible while trying to escape my own psychological traps.  I'm very sensitive to other people's symptoms.

 

Just read a few ideas from Szasz, and they trouble me, especially the idea of malingering.  I often wonder if I am lazy or depressed.   I think I will go make my bed and take a walk.  Thinking too much is not good for me.

 

[wantrelief]

1 hour ago, RealMe said:

Just read a few ideas from Szasz, and they trouble me, especially the idea of malingering.  I often wonder if I am lazy or depressed.   I think I will go make my bed and take a walk.  Thinking too much is not good for me.

I struggle with this too.....wondering if I am just lazy or depressed.  I have always been a bit of a procrastinator but not like this (major apathy) so I have to think it is withdrawal related.  It seems like withdrawal takes some of our innate characteristics and magnifies them by 1000.

[Rosetta]

You aren't lazy RM.. You need rest, and it's ok to listen to your body.  In fact, you must listen to your body or this is going to take longer.  However, I think getting a walk in every day is crucial.  Otherwise, this injury and healing process doesn't allow us to think or feel normal feelings.  I am sooo frustrated that I can't just get up off my tush and DO what I feel I need to do.  Little by little my ability to do that is coming back.  Sometimes, I even feel good about having accomplished something.  

 

Making your bed and going for a walk is great progress.  My accomplishment yesterday was that I did one whole load of laundry!  Washed AND dried!! (No, I didn't fold it or put it away.).  Can you imagine what my great great grandmother would think?!!  

 

I like to think and dream of the day when my neuro emotions are gone and everything is real -- good or bad, but real.  The fake anxiety, fake depression and fake guilt will disappear someday and never come back.   It may take me a while to realize my emotions are real, but when I do I will be so happy!!!

 

I hope you have a nice day and good sleep tonight. -- Rosetta

[Downbutnotout]

For sure, you’re not lazy. You are inspiring. 

[RealMe]

Today is a very difficult wave day.  Two days ago I signed up to substitute teach tomorrow as a method of forcing myself to function.  Today was so hard, I hope I can make it tomorrow.  Thanks, everyone, for the support and encouragement.

[ChessieCat]

Remember it is normal even when not going through withdrawal to feel apprehension about starting something new.  You know what is causing it and most of what you are experiencing is probably normal stress, which unfortunately can increase the symptoms.  It even has a name:  anticipatory anxiety.  One step at a time.

[ChessieCat]

You might want to listen to this a few times:

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

[Rosetta]

You can do it.  It will be a good distraction to be engaged.

[RealMe]

Thanks for the good meditation, CC.  And for the encouragement, WR, Rosetta, & DBNO.  I got up this morning...that's a good start.

[Shrike]

On 2/26/2018 at 1:52 PM, RealMe said:

I know ADs might provide temporary relief but

Hey RM. I was offline yesterday. 

 

This is very well said. It’s official! I just popped over into that “camp”! I think I’ve been there deep down for a while now. That animal brain is just looking for a way out. Gosh some days I wish there was a quick and easy magic path, but I suppose, you could say we are on the “magic” path to recovery, it just isn’t quick OR easy :-)

 

Been up and down last few days. Mornings are hardest. Still waking up too early and agitated. Kinda makes me not like the night in anticipation...

 

My days now are more split than all wave or all window. I seem to have hours of each. This is progress! I have to remember that when I get down about how slow this is going. 

 

Im talking to my counselor a lot about what I can do to reframe my work situation so it doesn’t feel so hopeless to return to (had some really bad situations that led up to me taking some time off - some of which was absolutely caused by AD withdrawal). I guess you could say I’m grateful the “car” did break down (meds stopped working, work got crazy) - it was/is the catalyst for this taking back of my life! Yes, painful. But also very hopeful. Just slow as we all know. Being patient is hard!

 

Hope your day is better today. Sounds like you’ve been up and down too...here’s to an “up” day! ;-)

[Happy2Heal]

17 hours ago, Rosetta said:

You aren't lazy RM.. You need rest, and it's ok to listen to your body.  In fact, you must listen to your body or this is going to take longer

I agree with Rosetta, this is a long journey and you need to pace yourself! sometimes you'll have more energy and be able to do more, some times, you'll need to hold back and rest more.

it's hard when you're never sure what sort of day you're going to have in advance, it makes it hard to plan, I know. If you find yourself in a situation that's a bit too hard, sometimes you can beg off and back out (even if you have to tell a white lie to do so) Other times, if it's not too bad, you just push thru it and then take a well deserved break.

 

Our brains are working overtime getting things sorted out. It has an effect on our entire body of course.

 

I hope your students are good to you today!! 

[RealMe]

20 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

most of what you are experiencing is probably normal stress

Thank you, ChessieCat.  I really look forward to being able to handle normal stress and not overreact to it as though it's overwhelming.  The anxiety reducing meditation tape you recommended is a good technique.  Thank you for that!

xo RM

[RealMe]

9 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

I agree with Rosetta, this is a long journey and you need to pace yourself! sometimes you'll have more energy and be able to do more, some times, you'll need to hold back and rest more.

it's hard when you're never sure what sort of day you're going to have in advance, it makes it hard to plan, I know. If you find yourself in a situation that's a bit too hard, sometimes you can beg off and back out (even if you have to tell a white lie to do so) Other times, if it's not too bad, you just push thru it and then take a well deserved break.

 

Our brains are working overtime getting things sorted out. It has an effect on our entire body of course.

 

I hope your students are good to you today!! 

The students were very good, and they sure helped distract from my symptoms!  I feel very tired, so I'm decompressing.  Everybody knows my symptoms, so I won't go into them here and give them more power.  I will just say that although not exactly a window, things are looking up today.  Tomorrow I see the therapist, and I will discuss my taper with him and ask what he and the doctor had in mind with that fast taper prescription (which I am ignoring).  Holding at 2mL (8.1 mg.) fluoxetine.

 

Very good ideas on energy, H2H!  Pacing myself is another extremely important technique I need to use.

xo RM

[RealMe]

9 hours ago, GregoryReboot said:

 I just popped over into that “camp”!

Good for you.  No one else can make this decision but you.  Sounds like you're ready.

 

9 hours ago, GregoryReboot said:

My days now are more split than all wave or all window. I seem to have hours of each. This is progress! I have to remember that when I get down about how slow this is going. 

I also need to remember past progress when the waves come.  You've read about recovery not being linear, right?  It's good to be able to see the whole picture.

 

9 hours ago, GregoryReboot said:

Im talking to my counselor a lot about what I can do to reframe my work situation

I seriously do not remember working on any issues while I was on all those ADs.  Maybe I did; I just don't remember.  The new therapist I'm seeing has brought up a couple of things, and I try to be open to working on them even though they don't strike me as totally relevant to my depression.  Maybe I'll learn something.

xo RM

 

[Downbutnotout]

On 2/25/2018 at 7:26 AM, RealMe said:

Thank you, WR!  Hope you are doing well.  I'll check your thread.

xo RM

You are doing fantastic. 

[Happy2Heal]

13 hours ago, RealMe said:

The new therapist I'm seeing has brought up a couple of things, and I try to be open to working on them even though they don't strike me as totally relevant to my depression.  Maybe I'll learn something.

pardon me for butting in on your conversation *blush*

I had to see a therapist for a short while in order to get the lexapro I was weaning off of, and she came up with all sorts of things she thought I should work on... and they were, indeed, totally irrelevant. My emotions were all neuro emotions, or primarily neuro emotions, totally outside of my control.

They were all chemically caused.

I found it very frustrating to have someone adding to my distress by trying to tell me I needed to work on past traumas in order to 'get better'. 
Each week I went, I just got angrier and angrier. It was a huge relief when I had enough liquid lexapro to finish my taper and didn't need to go any more!

 

Keep in mind that NO ONE knows you better than yourself. So if it seems like it's not relevant, it's probably not! if you don't have to go to therapy, it's generally not a good idea to go during WD, from what I've seen/read on this forum. Unless you get someone super supportive, which seems rare.

I did find one therapist who was completely anti-drugs, the only problem I had with her was that she herself had such a severe issue with anxiety, that I could not tolerate being in the same room with her. I felt bad for her, but her anxiety was just ramping up my own.

 

I needed a very calm confident presence, and I've found that with a few friends, but never with a therapist. They always seem to want to change you... and what I needed most was acceptance, of my situation, and of myself. I'm already very hard on myself, I didn't need to have that compounded by anyone else trying to find things "wrong" with me that needed to be "fixed".

 

when you think about it, it's very easy to find fault- with anyone and with any situation. It doesn't take any great skills to do that. But to see the good in people, or in circumstances, that can be a challenge. If you found a therapist who was able to do that,  I think it might be worth the expense and time spent, but I think you really only find that among friends.

 

my 2 cents, for what  it's worth!

 

[Happy2Heal]

On 2/25/2018 at 3:53 PM, GregoryReboot said:

Just want to encourage you to keep trying things like you mentioned. One thing that helps me alot is telling myself that *usually* the absolute worst symptoms are over in a matter of mere hours. It's a bit of a mind game but if I tell myself "by this afternoon, I'll probably feel better..." it does seem to help or at least just help me distract myself to pass those "hours".

oh I agree with this!  these are the times we need to be esp kind to ourselves as well. 

[Shrike]

13 hours ago, RealMe said:

seriously do not remember working on any issues while I was on all those ADs.

I don’t think we do. The problem with ADs (IMHO) is they kinda steal your motivation to work on any thing *real*. At least that was my experience as well. Once we quiet the alarm bells with drugs, that pain that motivates people to change is gone and we just keep doing what we were doing...

 

Thanks RM. Hope you find yourself in a window today. I’m pulling for ya!

[Shrike]

21 minutes ago, Happy2Heal said:

I found it very frustrating to have someone adding to my distress by trying to tell me I needed to work on past traumas in order to 'get better'. 

Yeah, I could see how this could happen. Good advice to trust thyself. For me personally, my therapist has been a huge help. It is being driven by me though. We talk about what’s important to me. 

 

One thing I did was actually try a bunch of different therapists for like an “interview” session. That helped me find someone that spoke my language. 

 

One last thought. I think we need different therapists at different times in our journey. I needed someone gentle and supportive for this leg of my journey. In the past I’ve needed someone who was stronger - someone to “call my bluff” if I started to spiral into a rabbit hole. 

 

Just my .02 and experience. Good luck all on your current “work”!

[AliG]

14 hours ago, RealMe said:

Tomorrow I see the therapist, and I will discuss my taper with him and ask what he and the doctor had in mind with that fast taper prescription (which I am ignoring).  Holding at 2mL (8.1 mg.) fluoxetine.

 

What did he say? I hope you realize that you are now the one in control.

[RealMe]

3 hours ago, AliG said:

 

What did he say? I hope you realize that you are now the one in control.

The therapist said he was working with me on other methods of dealing with depression and anxiety and that it was my choice to do so without medication.  He said he also told the doctor I was not opposed to going back on the meds if I were to crash and burn. (just paraphrasing)  He didn't know how or why the doctor came up with the tapering schedule he prescribed.  

 

Along with my usual symptoms, I am feeling things since my last taper that I have not felt recently such as increased irritability and really down mood.  Heaven help me.  I am exhausted.  Maybe working yesterday and going to the therapist today just took a lot out of me.  I also gained 3 pounds.  I only weigh myself once a month, and today was the day.  That probably set the tone.  D___n fluoxetine.

[AliG]

Some of these symptoms are ~ part of the process ~ and they tend to recede over time.

 

How do you feel the therapy is going?

[Downbutnotout]

2 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

pardon me for butting in on your conversation *blush*

I had to see a therapist for a short while in order to get the lexapro I was weaning off of, and she came up with all sorts of things she thought I should work on... and they were, indeed, totally irrelevant. My emotions were all neuro emotions, or primarily neuro emotions, totally outside of my control.

They were all chemically caused.

I found it very frustrating to have someone adding to my distress by trying to tell me I needed to work on past traumas in order to 'get better'. 
Each week I went, I just got angrier and angrier. It was a huge relief when I had enough liquid lexapro to finish my taper and didn't need to go any more!

 

Keep in mind that NO ONE knows you better than yourself. So if it seems like it's not relevant, it's probably not! if you don't have to go to therapy, it's generally not a good idea to go during WD, from what I've seen/read on this forum. Unless you get someone super supportive, which seems rare.

I did find one therapist who was completely anti-drugs, the only problem I had with her was that she herself had such a severe issue with anxiety, that I could not tolerate being in the same room with her. I felt bad for her, but her anxiety was just ramping up my own.

 

I needed a very calm confident presence, and I've found that with a few friends, but never with a therapist. They always seem to want to change you... and what I needed most was acceptance, of my situation, and of myself. I'm already very hard on myself, I didn't need to have that compounded by anyone else trying to find things "wrong" with me that needed to be "fixed".

 

when you think about it, it's very easy to find fault- with anyone and with any situation. It doesn't take any great skills to do that. But to see the good in people, or in circumstances, that can be a challenge. If you found a therapist who was able to do that,  I think it might be worth the expense and time spent, but I think you really only find that among friends.

 

my 2 cents, for what  it's worth!

 

[Downbutnotout]

It helps to have a good therapist. 

[RealMe]

7 hours ago, Happy2Heal said:

when you think about it, it's very easy to find fault- with anyone and with any situation. It doesn't take any great skills to do that. But to see the good in people, or in circumstances, that can be a challenge. If you found a therapist who was able to do that,  I think it might be worth the expense and time spent, but I think you really only find that among friends.

 

my 2 cents, for what  it's worth!

Thanks for your thoughts on therapy, H2H!  They are worth a lot to me.  I think therapists work best when they help people through crises, but I'm not in one.  I'm not going to think too much about it though as long as he doesn't try to coax me back to ADs.  He has some mindfulness (whatever that is) meditations he wants me to try for tinnitus next week.  I am more down than I was last week, and I think that may have to do with WD.  Hopefully, that will ease as I hold, hold and hold.

xo RM

[RealMe]

3 hours ago, AliG said:

Some of these symptoms are ~ part of the process ~ and they tend to recede over time.

 

How do you feel the therapy is going?

Hi Ali,

Thanks for responding to me.  I am not sure yet about how therapy is going.  Today he seemed to be searching for reasons or relationships that I might be stressed about and that might be exacerbating tinnitus, anxiety and depression. He has some meditations he is going to give me next week, and I guess they will be worth a try.  Over all, I don't have much faith in therapy today.  I'm feeling poorly, and there doesn't seem to be anything outside of myself that might be causing it.  I might be experiencing less stability as a result of my tapering.  I am counting on your experience that some of these symptoms are part of the process!

xo RM