BlusMama: In the midst of Zoloft withdrawal

[BlusMama]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm really happy to have found this support system for antidepressant withdrawal. I have spent the past 8 months weaning off of Zoloft 100mg (am now at 12.5) and am experiencing delayed withdrawal side effects. I initially was on for depression about my parents' divorce, as well as some anxiety issues. I experienced my first panic attack in Geometry class in high school- I'll never forget that day. I felt like I was floating, and completely disconnected from my body. It quickly subsided once I drank some cold water, and I never thought much of it after that until I realized what it was.

 

Zoloft and I have had an interesting run. It leveled me out to put it vaguely. My high's were never too high, and my lows were never that low. I just went through the motions, sort of numbed out, but in many ways, grateful that my reactions were lessened. My father suffers from mental illness (depression, anxiety, alcoholism and drug addiction, and narcissist personality disorder), so I've always been very conscious of how I act in certain situations in an effort to not be like him. About 3 years ago, my Zoloft pooped out. Entirely. Either that, or my dose wasn't cutting it. I was in the midst of a new relationship, I didn't know which direction I wanted to go in in college,  my grandparents were diagnosed with terminal cancer and passed away shortly thereafter within two weeks of one another, my fathers addiction issues came to light, and my anxiety was through the roof. I was semi-agoraphobic; I had a 9-5 job which forced me to be social and stay in public, but I couldn't sit in a restaurant with out panic, couldn't go to a mall, a grocery store, etc. Then, one day, it was sort of gone. Either I had gotten used to it, the Zoloft started working again, or a combo of the above. I felt amazing again, and like I was on top of the world. My mom put her house on the market to be leased, I moved into my apartment with my significant other, we started a business, I wrote a book, I had an intervention for my dad and he went to rehab. I was at a place where I thought I could handle going off of the medication. I thought I was better. So, I took a trip down to my psychiatrist, and told him all of the above and told him of the recent positive changes. While he acknowledged the changes, and said they were indeed positive, he looked at me and said:

 

"You sure you want to go off the Zoloft now? This is an odd time with you moving out of your home, the new business, your grandparents and your father."

I told him I was sure, and away we went. I began that tapering off on February Feb 16, 2017 until early April 2017. 

Going from 100-75 was a piece of cake, and that was from April- May 2017.   50-25, was from May-September 2017. and then 25-12.5 from Sept 2017 to present (Oct 2018). I have done a complete 180 in anxiety (and even some depression) symptoms. My most troubling one is depersonalization/derealization. I've had it before, but never this bad.  As much as I've read, listened to, and accepted that DP/DR is a direct result of anxiety, due to withdrawal, I can't help but think I am totally losing my mind. Or that I've made a huge mistake and need to go back on Zoloft altogether to help alleviate these symptoms. I exercise 4-5x a week, have just started neurofeedback, eat relatively healthy, but am still struggling. I'm back to being agoraphobic despite forcing myself to go to the gym, that's about all I can handle. I can't stand around for long without feeling fidgety, I always feel unstable when I'm standing, and again, depersonalization that's pretty severe. Again, the thought of going crazy or that I've done irreversible damage to my brain by this discontinuation is enough to send me into a complete panic. 

 

I'm looking forward to reading your responses, and I appreciate your taking the time in reading this.

 

BlusMama

[ChessieCat]

Hi BlusMama and welcome to SA,

 

Tapering from 100mg to 12.5mg in 8 months is a much faster taper than SA recommends which is why the withdrawal symptoms have caught up with you.  SA's recommended tapering protocol is 10% of the previous dose with a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  If you had followed SA's taper you would have reduced to 43mg at the end of September.

 

Please create your drug signature by following these instructions:

 

 A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Tips for tapering off Zoloft (sertraline)

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

If you are finding that your withdrawal symptoms are unbearable you could increase your dose by a very small amount.  Once we have your signature we can suggest a dose increase amount.  It is best to increase very gradually than to take too much and risk destabilising your CNS (central nervous system).  Please read Post #1 of this topic:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

These helped me to understand SA's recommendations:

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

This is your own Introduction topic where you can ask questions and journal your progress.

[BlusMama]

Thank you Chessie for your words + suggestions. I've updated my signature to reflect all dosages, discontinuation, etc. 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

Thanks for completing your signature, it's nice and easy to read.  Could you please clarify one thing? 

 

Sertraline, 10 YRS please add starting dose

Tapered Off:  mid-February 2017,

 

Did you CT mid-Feb or did you commence your taper mid-Feb?  If you commenced, please change the wording to "Commenced taper" so that we know that you didn't CT.  If you did go off completely, please change to "CT:  mid-Feb"

 

Please also add the starting dose where indicated.  Thank you.

 

____________________

 

Because you did a 50% reduction at the beginning of October from 25mg to 12.5mg, you might find that increasing to 15mg might help reduce your symptoms.  The brain will have already made some adjustments during the time you have been on 12.5mg so it is not recommended to return to the previous dose.  It take about 4 days for the drug to get to a steady level in the blood and a few more days for it to register in the brain.  If you decide to updose please keep notes of what symptoms improve/worsen because you can sometimes see improvement that you may not feel.  It will depend on how things go during the first 7 days whether it would be best to hold on 15mg or to increase it by a tiny bit.  The lower the dose you can stabilise on the better.  Once your symptoms are reduced it will be best to hold for a good while.  This could be 3-4 months or possibly longer depending on how things go.

 

Please let us know what you decide and how things go.  Before increasing more than 15mg please post your symptoms diary and we can assess your situation.  It is important to note that the idea of updosing and reinstating isn't to get rid of withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a bearable level.

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Stabilising After a Reduction - What Does That Mean?

Withdrawal Normal Description

 

It's also important to learn Non-drug techniques to cope

[BlusMama]

Just fixed it, thank you!

 

If I do decide to go up to 15mg from 12.5 I'm not entirely sure how to do that as I have 25mg tablets that I cut in half, so to gauge it would be tough. 

[Gridley]

I have had good results from the Gemini 20 scale to cut down tablets.   Available on Amazon, not expensive.  Also buy some size 00 empty capsules on Amazon to put the reduced dose in.  Save anything left over for the next time you make pills.  Depending on your concntration level, maybe you could make several days' worth at one sitting.  Th

[baroquep]

Blusmama, You might also find these links helpful:

 

Tablets or Liquid

Using an oral syringe and other tapering techniques
Using a digital scale to measure doses

[BlusMama]

How would I do the math on this?

Crush up the tablet (one at a time) and then weigh it to 15mg? I noticed on the threads you sent there is math involved because there are other fillers in each tablet. Unfortunately math and I don’t get along at all . 

[ChessieCat]

If you make a liquid you can dissolve a tablet, eg 25mg in 25ml of water, or 50mg in 50ml of water so that each ml of water = 1mg Zoloft.  So if you dissolved 25mg in 25ml you would remove 10ml to get a 15mg dose (the remainder of the liquid).  It doesn't have to be an exact 15mg however you need to do the same thing every time so that the dose is the same.

[RachelSusan]

Hi BlusMama,

 

I'm sorry your pain and suffering brought you here, but welcome aboard.  Your post caught my eye because I'm dealing with Zoloft withdrawal as well.  My taper story includes a lot of mistakes, however I'm doing fairly well right now, holding at 5mg. 

 

I want to assure you that you have not done permanent damage to your brain.  You will heal. Some people have a harder time of it, some an easier time of it, but you will get through this, and you will recover.

 

Welcome again.

RS

[BlusMama]

Thank you, RachelSusan.

 

I'm having an off day today. But when I think about it, all days are off, and its mainly just getting through it and going through the motions. I just want some relief, and days like this make me focus on the bad instead of the good. 

 

[Rob66]

Welcome BlusMama.  Sorry to hear your going though tough times.  We are all here to support one another.  This is one of the best websites regarding Ad's you will find anywhere.  

Your title caught my attention as well since I'm another person tapering Zoloft.  I can relate to your story.  Zoloft made me stable also.  Never extremely happy nor extremely sad, just very stable and able to handle most anything.  A chemical lobotomy of sorts.  Like you I eventually experienced the poop out effect and sought help through this forum.  I started tapering months ago using the scale method.  I simply file down my pills and weigh them on a "Gemini 20" scale I bought off Amazon.  I usually just weigh up a large batch once a month and I'm done.  It's a really affordable scale that's accurate enough for our purposes.  I figure it will get me by until I get to the tiniest of doses, then I'll switch to a liquid Zoloft and titrate from there.  There is an excel spreadsheet listed on this site that you can download to do the 10% calculations for you.  Just enter a starting dose plus pill weight and it calculates the proper weight you need to be at for every 10% drop.  Works well for people like me who are mathematically challenged.

I hope that your able to stabilize and find some peace within.  Take care.

Rob.

[BlusMama]

Thanks, Rob. If I reinstate -- which I'm on the fence about -- I will definitely purchase the Gemini scale to accurately do it. Do you know where I can find that excel spreadsheet?

 

What symptoms have you experienced as a result of your WD?

 

TY!

[Rob66]

I found the spreadsheet in the tapering section in this stickie:

My withdrawal symptoms have been very mild and manageable.  I suspected Zoloft tolerance (poop out) about a year ago after my mood was increasingly getting worse without any dose adjustments.  That's when I did some research and found this site.  I then began tapering per this sites recommendation.  Prior to tapering I was on 100mg for 22 years. 

My WD symptoms tend to ramp up several days after a cut but then level off in the weeks after.  I've experienced brain fog, depersonalization, low motivation, lack of concentration and just a persistent  "out of it" feeling.  On a positive note, I'm starting to feel real emotions again.  Irrational anger was my biggest issue prior to tapering.  It has gotten much better since I've been reducing my dose.

There's no shame in updosing if it means you can then taper slowly from a stable position.  It's all about weaning off the drug without inflicting too much misery at the same time.  

[BlusMama]

I reached out to my psychiatrist to reinstate. I'm just miserable at the moment, and even with the help neurofeedback gives, I think I tapered too fast. 

 

Would love some suggestions as to reinstating the drug back in while minimizing any symptoms. 

 

 

[BlusMama]

I reinstated today. I took my 25mg pill, split in half, and split the half in half. Took my 12.5mg (normal dose) and then half of the other, making my dose roughly 18.75. My scale is coming in on Amazon in a few days so I can get more accurate measurements.

[BlusMama]

I realized I am taking 15mg, not 18.75mg. 

 

Not sure if it's making more of a difference or not, but I feel happier that I'm more in control of what's going on with me. Depersonalization is still there pretty chronically, so I'm wanting to get to a dose where that is no longer an issue and then taper the right way. I will stay at 15mg for another week or so, and if I don't see any stabilization I will go up. 

[RachelSusan]

Hi BlusMama,

Sadly I have found that sometimes it takes weeks for my body to fully respond to what ever change I've made medication wise. I'm sure you will slowly get relief in the days to come. Hang in there.

RS

 

[BlusMama]

I'm hoping to get a recommendation on reinstating my Sertraline. Drug history in my signature, and I've recently gone up to about 15.25mg from 12.5 (sheer guessing from cutting pills- just ordered a Gemini scale). I feel a little bit better- could be total placebo- but I'd still like some relief and to stabilize more. I'm going to stay at 15mg for another few days, but I'd love some suggestions on possible updoses with minimizing symptoms. 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

If you are taking 3/4 of a 25mg tablet then you are taking 18.75.  When you get your scale it would be a good idea to weigh what you are taking to confirm whether this is correct.

 

Please update your signature to include the start date and dose you are now.  Don't forget to click Save.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to a steady dose in the blood and a few more days for it to register in the brain.  It's best to keep daily notes on paper so you can see improvement which you may not feel.  It is possible that you are feeling a bit of improvement.  I experienced bad cog fog for 3 weeks and then I couldn't type and updosed.  About 4 hours later I could type again and the cog fog was clearing.

 

It could take 2-3 weeks for things to settle.  Because you have made such big reductions since February this year, it would be a good idea to do a nice long hold.  At least 4 months, and possibly longer.  It is better to hold for longer than to try and reduce again and discover that it has been too soon, especially when there have been so many changes in such a short period of time.  You will need to be very patient and listen to your body.  We need to learn to how to sit with any discomfort that withdrawal throws at us if we are ever going to get off the drug.  This involves changing our thinking.  It is important to learn and use Non-drug techniques to cope instead of trying to find something to fix us.  Doing nothing is actually doing something.  It is giving your brain the time it needs to fix itself.

 

Also healing isn't linear.  See:

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Stabilising - What Does That Mean?

Withdrawal Normal Description

[BlusMama]

On 10/28/2017 at 4:57 PM, ChessieCat said:

If you are taking 3/4 of a 25mg tablet then you are taking 18.75.  When you get your scale it would be a good idea to weigh what you are taking to confirm whether this is correct.

 

 

Hi Chessie,

 

I received my scale and was just curious, even though I am taking roughly 18.75, the scale says I am taking 62mg... is it because the pill has other stuff in it? If so, how would I calculate accurate amounts? Just am confused on this. Will update signature now! 

[ChessieCat]

Yes, the tablets have filler in them.  See this topic:  Using a digital scale to measure doses

 

NZ11 created a spreadsheet (bottom left)  Tapering Calculator - Download

 

He has even included the "how to".

 

 

Edited November 1, 2017 by ChessieCat

[BlusMama]

Having a really rough day today. I can't tell if I'm coming down with something, or if this is all just part of it. I reinstated Zoloft from 12.5mg to 15mg to 18mg, and it's been good so far, but today was really off. I feel severely fatigued, and the depression has hit me like a steel bat. Nothing was unprompted- I got into a big argument with my significant other regarding some big life decisions we have coming up, but I feel entirely unable to cope today and like I just want to go to sleep. 

[ChessieCat]

External stressors have a habit of making withdrawal worse.  And of course female hormones can too.

[BlusMama]

I'm in a window right now that is really keeping me down. I've reinstated Zoloft (as reflected in my signature) to about 30-31mg in an attempt to get to a level where I am getting some relief from these annoying withdrawal symptoms. It seems that each time I go up, I am whacked with this crushing depression that I cannot shake. Once I start crying, I can't stop. I'm fatigued, but can't sleep. I want to exercise, but doing I get exercise induced panic. I only want to stay home, but I'm bored. I want to feel something, but at the same time I feel everything. I want some relief, and I don't know what it will take to get there. I don't know if reinstatement is failing me, or if these are just start up side effects while trying to get to where I need to be. I try to remind myself that this is all part of the journey , that I'm not crazy, or falling off the deep end but just a direct result of this gross "medication." I miss Zoloft and hate it at the same time. I'm torn between wanting to just say "forget it, I'm going back up to my original dose," and trusting the process. I'm impatient and want relief now, but know that it just doesn't work that way. I feel distant to my significant other, and find myself just missing my childhood and wanting so desperately to go crawl home to my Mom. But, as an adult, I can't do that anymore, and know I have to soldier on. The thoughts just don't stop coming, and flooding my head and it seems no matter what I do I can't get relief, besides in my sleep. 

 

I just am sort of at a loss for what to do. I had neurofeedback today and mentioned this to the doctor who mentioned that this is a fleeting feeling and will pass in time. Why can't I believe him, and just trust that this will pass?

 

I used to have such a joie de vivre and welcomed every single day with an eagerness that I miss so much. Christmas used to be my favorite holiday,  and now I'm just dreading being around everyone. Will I ever be the same person? Will I get back to the normal me, or is she gone? 

 

Just need some encouragement and positivity. 

 

[DaveB]

I don't really have any advice, just want you to know you are not alone. I know how you feel, I LOVE Christmas with my wife and kids, I am scheduled to go to Montana to spend Christmas with my wife's family at their lodge (something that is normally my favorite thing) but I am scared. Scared I will be it my head and anxious and ruin it for my wife and kids, scared I will go just bat-sh%$ crazy and embarrass myself in front of the whole family (who I actually LOVE as much as my own). We will get better, it will happen, after my rough year and don't know how or when, just know that it will.  

[AliG]

BlusMama. You have been increasing your dose when ideally, you would need to be holding for an extended period to give your CNS(central nervous system) a chance to recalibrate and stabilize. After a long hold of many months and feeling stable, you could then resume a slow, gentle 10% taper off Zoloft. Some prefer to taper even more slowly, to minimize symptoms and maintain a quality of life.

 

On 10/29/2017 at 9:57 AM, ChessieCat said:

Because you have made such big reductions since February this year, it would be a good idea to do a nice long hold.  At least 4 months, and possibly longer.  It is better to hold for longer than to try and reduce again and discover that it has been too soon, especially when there have been so many changes in such a short period of time.  You will need to be very patient and listen to your body.  We need to learn to how to sit with any discomfort that withdrawal throws at us if we are ever going to get off the drug.  This involves changing our thinking.  It is important to learn and use Non-drug techniques to cope instead of trying to find something to fix us.  Doing nothing is actually doing something.  It is giving your brain the time it needs to fix itself.

 

Only 2.5 weeks ago you were at 18.75 mg.  You are currently at 30mg. This is too fast and unnecessary as we are looking for the lowest effective dose.The dose which will help soften symptoms and also achieve stability. With psych drugs, it is always best to go slowly and with extreme caution, whether tapering or updosing. Please read the attached link below:

 

 

In an attempt to get to a level where you get some relief from your withdrawal symptoms, it's necessary to stop and allow your nervous system a chance to catch up with the many changes it has been through recently.

 

How many 30 mg doses have you taken ? How are you measuring your dose? It may be possible to drop back down in dose a little, if you have only taken 1 or 2 x 30mg.

 

Edited November 15, 2017 by AliG
spacing

[RachelSusan]

Hi BlusMama,

I have been following you because just like you I have been tapering off of Zoloft.  I don't want to offer advice because you got it from one of the Moderators.  If however if you want to ask me any specific questions about my experience since I started in July of 2016 and went through a lot of trial and error, I would be happy to give you the benefit of my experience, both the good and the bad. Whatever decision you make in what to do with dosage we are all here for you. You can write me here on your page, on my page, or private message me.  I am sorry you are suffering so.

Rachel