Jewlz: Scared of the withdrawal process

[Loreli]

Jewlz, could your daughter or a close family member count the beads for you until your shaking gets better?

[Jewlz]

Loreli-

 

That's a really good idea!
 

I'm feeling discouraged right now because I'm experiencing very high-pitched ringing in my left ear. I've had tinnitus in my right ear, but this is much, much higher. Like I want to grab my head to try and make it stop. Dizziness is starting to creep in a bit, but I can attribute that to several hours of studying today and not eating like I should. Nutrition is so difficult when preparing a meal for just me. I need to work on that though, eating right will go a long way in this process. I just didn't anticipate this bullshivika starting so soon.

 

Thanks for the idea!

[Jewlz]

Update: I had a great session with my psychologist today and I've got their support 100%. They completely 'get' counting beads from their experience with other clients. Of course, no private information was shared. I feel so much better knowing I have this professional's support. The goal is to get to the root cause of my depression and get out and enjoy nature. Also, becoming more social with existing friends and chosen family members. I'm also going to try and make new friends, which is scary for me. But I'm going to take 'baby steps.'  Withdrawal symptoms today-ringing in my ears, but not as bad as 4/17, a little off balance, headache (experienced before my taper started), feels like my allergies are flaring up, no dizziness. I did take 0.125 xanax last night at bedtime. I'm going to explore more about magnesium and  melatonin.

[Jewlz]

Rough day-woke up in the middle of the night with what felt like both hands had fallen asleep but with an electrical component-weird. My left ear hurt really bad when I woke up which is the ear that I experienced the extremely high-pitched ringing in the other night. I am going to monitor that. Unable to focus on homework assignments for school. I feel dizzy and really sleepy and freezing cold-3 layers of clothes and a head/neck wrap and I'm still cold. Feeling clumsy but that is just me-think of Chevy Chase. That's all for now.

[Jewlz]

I haven't had any unusual symptoms in the past few days or since my last post. I am really tired, but can't seem to get to sleep which is really frustrating which makes my sleeping hours way off base from the rest of the world. But it's not anything new, maybe more pronounced. I've been having the extreme heat in my body like hot flashes, but they're not hot flashes. My vision is so blurry it scares the heck out of me when I'm driving and I can't make out the signs on the highway. I have my annual appointment with my eye doctor this week and I'm anxious to see what type of visions changes I've experienced.  Went out for dinner with my daughter and grand-kids to a neighborhood Mexican food restaurant last night and had no desire for a margarita, which is totally not like me. I think I confused the waiter! Anyway, I don't want to do anything that could interfere with my goal and since I am just starting my taper it seemed like having a margie could sabotage me.

 

The one thing that has come to mind lately is I feel like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. Not knowing what to expect can be mind-bending.  So, I'm thankful for today and the good days I have had. I'm doing a lot of self talk to build up my resolve for the future. This will be a long process and I want to be as prepared as I can be, if that's even possible.

 

I'm considering buying a scale and have found one on amazon. What size capsules are recommended? 00? With duloxetine the beads are so itty-bitty to begin with. My next step down will be from 80mg to 72mg. There's a part of me that thinks going straight to 70mg maybe okay, but then I wonder if I should take the risk. I'm sure I will figure that out.

 

 

[Gridley]

00 capsules are recommended.

 

I would go to 72, not 70.  Don't take the risk.  These drugs are strong.

[Jewlz]

Thanks, Gridley. Guess I'll get that scale after all. I seriously doubt my psychiatrist will write a script for 60 mg + 12 mg, so that is probably my best bet.

[Gridley]

The scale has worked well for me.  It lets you make nonstandard and accurate dosages.

[Jewlz]

I really appreciate your help on this Gridley. What scale have you used? Did you use any other implements, like something to hold the empty capsules in place, a funnel to feed the beads into the capsules?

p.s.-what is Brassmonkey? 

copy/paste from your signature:

Lexapro 20 mg. since 2004  

2017

Begin 2017 at 20mg.  Brassmonkey 2.5% taper per we....

 

Thanks!

[Gridley]

Jewlz,

 

Here's a link that describes the Brassmonkey Slide Method taper, which is a variation of the 10% every month taper.

• The Brassmonkey Slide Meth…

I use the Gemini-20 scale from Amazon.

 

To hold the empty capsules in place, I took an eyedropper top, cut off the rubber squeeze part and put the 1/2 of empty 00 capsule in the cut off squeezer.  I then balance the capsule/squeezer on the plastic top.  I use of small square of folded paper to pour the the dose into the capsule, then close the capsule.  You could also use a small funnel.

 

This link gives lots of tips and illustrations about using the scale and filling capsules.

 

Using a digital scale to measure doses

 

Also Google "SurvivingAntidepressants.org using a scale" for more threads.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jewlz]

The links are great, thanks!   There are so many resources available!

[Jewlz]

Thanks to Gridley and all of your help, I ordered the scale you use, some vegan capsules, and a funnel. I also ordered  a thing called "The Capsule Machine." It should hopefully help me in stabilizing the bottom part of the capsule while I fill my titrated doses. Plus the machine will also hopefully lock in the top capsule to the bottom. Of course most of those types of contraptions are for folks who make their own capsules for herbs and it's in powder form. I'll see how it works for me.

 

Need some input-I just got done with a huge statistics exam and I could really use an adult beverage (beer) right now. Could I sabotage myself by partaking? I'm not asking for permission to drink, just wondering about other member experiences. For now I'm goin for a juicy burger, soda pop and some ice cream!

[Jewlz]

I received my Gemini-20 scale today in preparation for my next dosage drop. I'm excited about getting the scale and feeling better about getting on with my taper where I have to make my own capsules. That's the one thing I'm more nervous about than symptoms. However, I'm still doing well on my initial dosage drop from 90mg to 80mg and will be seeing  my psychiatrist 2 weeks from today. I have put together a word document for my duloxetine taper plan that I'm going to share here for feedback and input. I will also be sharing with  my psych dr.

 

My plan is going to be a 10% drop and holding for 4 weeks at that amount for May and the 10% drop from May's dosage for a 4 week hold for June. The brassmonkey method is really smart and a lot of work. I'm going to revisit that as I get along further in tapering down. So my plan will get me to 60mg by the first week in July and I will hold at that amount until after our big family event when my daughter gets married in September.

 

If I could get feedback on my plan, I will be grateful for the time and expertise.

 

Thanks-Julie

 

My duloxetine taper plan April 2018 thru end of June 2018 to get to 60mg and hold.docx

My duloxetine taper plan April 2018 thru end of June 2018 to get to 60mg and hold.docx

Edited August 9, 2018 by manymoretodays
removed white space

[Gridley]

That looks like a good plan.  

 

Don't be surprised if your doctor is not supportive and thinks you can go off much more quickly.  Psychiatrists know little, if anything, about tapering and withdrawal.  These links may be helpful for when you talk with your doctor.

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?
 
What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

[Jewlz]

Hey Gridley-

 

Thanks for taking a look at my plan.

 

How frustrating and very scary that psychiatrists only know how to prescribe AD's and know nothing about coming off these horrible drugs.

I did actually meet with my psych provider and told him I want to come off the duloxetine. He was like okay, well let's go 90 to 60 for 2 weeks and then 60 to 30 for 2 weeks and 30 to 20 for 2 weeks...etc-Argh!! I told him no, I want to  go from 90 to 80. He became a little annoyed when I told him I want to come down 10mg at a time. He proclaimed that it would take me forever to get off the meds and that I wouldn't notice a difference with the taper between the 90 to 80. I didn't say a word. So, like  you said he will more than likely balk at my more comprehensive plan when I see him next week. Thing is he works for me, not the other way around. 

 

Please excuse any repetition in my posts. I attribute it to my fuzzy brain.

[Gridley]

31 minutes ago, Jewlz said:

Thing is he works for me, not the other way around. 

 

That's the spirit, Jewlz!  Stick to your guns.  And no, it won't take "forever," and you'll be a lot better off (not to mention feeling immeasurably better) doing it the right way.  In fact, you'll very likely be off these drugs quicker this way than the psych's way--which all too often leads to drugs changes, failed reinstatements, lots of tinkering, drug changes and down the rabbit hole you go.  Slow and steady wins the race.  Congratulations on coming up with a good plan.

[JLex1981]

I would show him/her the 5HTT occupancy curve 

[Jewlz]

Hi JLex-  What is the 5HTT occupany curve? I know a little about 5HTT.

[Jewlz]

I had a great day yesterday! The weather was absolutely perfect-like a real spring day! Was out and about early which is unusual, but I had an early morning appointment which had me out of the house at 7:15am and I didn't get back home til around 7pm. Hung out with my daughter and grandkids, and mostly played outdoors with the grandkids. Digging in the dirt and soaking up the sun! Made a huge difference in my mood!

 

I have a thought for my next psych dr. appt on 5/9. I've started tracking my daily symptoms with a template that I found either online or more than likely from this website. Anyway I'm considering taking the documents with me to have them put into my health record at his office. There's a little bit of me that has an attitude toward the dr. on his ignorance of withdrawal from duloxetine in presenting the documents to him-like here! This is what I 'm talking about!!. On the other hand, it's important this info land in my permanent mental health record. Any thoughts?

[Jewlz]

Just when I think I'm doing good! I'm in school and of course it's the end of semester so it's a bit stressful. I messed up on an assignment and it was total fog-brain. I should've caught the mistake and I'm frustrated! I have one more year of a 2 year program and right now, at this moment, I don't wanna have anything to do with school and don't want to continue on with the program. It's just scary, like will this happen in the fall when I'll be out doing clinicals? Not with patients, but going into health facilities to get first hand experience with health information management functions, read potential employer(s). Will I be able to handle it? I need to get back to being in the moment. Breathing...Breathing...breathing

[Gridley]

You will get back to feeling good about school.  We all make mistakes dues to these drugs.  Please don't put "should" on yourself.  And don't worry about the fall--that's catastrophizing about something that might never happen and probably won't.  

[Jewlz]

Gridley- I way over-reacted to what I thought was a big oversight in my school work. I actually ended up doing well on the assignment. So that's a good thing!

[Jewlz]

Update: I've begun to notice my voice sounds shaky at times, I'm having a lot of allergy like symptoms, feeling overwhelmed with getting chores done and easily annoyed. So basically I'm crabby. One of the biggest issues I have is my vision. I started noticing a difference about a year ago. Blurry vision but my eye exam from last year was good with only a slight difference in my eye prescription. The blurriness has gotten worse to the point of not being able to see road signs clearly until I'm almost on top of them. My annual eye exam this year came back with good news of healthy eyes and again just a slight change in prescription. I just wonder if my vision will continue to be blurry, if it will get worse, or go away once I'm fully off duloxetine. This is scary for me.

[Gridley]

Blurred vision is a common withdrawal symptom. There is really no telling when it will stop.  These symptoms can come and go.    Irritation is also a common symptom.

PDF Monthly List of Dr Glenmullen's Symptoms to Print & PDF Monthly List BLANK to Print

 

The fact that the blurred vision came on with only one drop (from 90 to 80) may indicate you need to taper more slowly, perhaps at a 5% per month rate. Or you can hold at 80 and see if the blurred vision resolves itself.  I would not taper any further for a while.  The following link gives instructions on how to make a nonstandard dose of Duloxetine from your pills, which is basically counting grains and removing 5% or 10% from the capsule.

 

Tips for tapering off Cymbalta (duloxetine)

[Jewlz]

Thanks Gridley-. This is frustrating! I'm glad for your feedback because I would probably continue to drop which is next week. I'm revising my plan to hold at 80mg. I am experiencing eye irritation too. (Heavy Sigh) But I'm good!

[Jewlz]

Update: went and saw my psychiatrist yesterday and discussed with them to hold my taper at 80mg. He did acknowledge that I wanted to reduce by 10mg, he must've forgotten the part 'of current dose.' That's okay we both agreed to hold at 80mg so all in all it was a good visit. I see my psychologist next week. I've felt exhausted the past couple of day. This morning I felt as if I had been drugged and could barely hold my head up. I attribute that to a very busy weekend filled with excitement and grandkids. My body just aches and pain is exhausting. I'm not sure if the pain and ensuant fatigue are part of the withdrawal or part of my arthritis. Who knows, but it is debilitating. I almost forgot about something that happened on Sunday that was not pleasant at all. My 14 year-old shepherd mix bit my 6 year-old grandson. Thank God it wasn't a deep bite, and seems as if my Foster dog was giving a warning. It barely broke the skin but the dog did make contract with my grandson's mouth. an ER visit and dealing with incompetence at the pharmacy left my daughter near tears and I couldn't 'fix it' for her. That's the hardest part of being a parent, not being able to fix things for them in their adult lives. So I've got to be feeling some emotional exhaustion from what happened, plus I will be putting the dog down after the 10-day wait the state requires in case the dog has rabies. I've always maintained consistent rabies vaccines as well as all other vaccines so that gives me some relief. There's always that nagging voice in the back of my head saying 'what if.' Putting the dog down, was an immediate decision as he has bitten before, however It was several years ago. It comes without warning and is too stressful to always wonder or wait and see. Keeping him away from family and friend who visit is stressful too and isn't fair to my dog. All of that probably sounds crazy, but I know I've made the best decision with the circumstances involved. It's going to be difficult though we rescued him 14 years ago and he has been a loving companion. That's it for now! School is over-yeah!

 

My vision is still wonky which is the reason I'm holding at 80mg. It's scary when things at a distance are blurry, especially since my eye prescription hasn't changed to the point where I need new lenses. Other withdrawal effects are balance, when I bend down and come up it feels like my body is leaning forward, and some minimal dizziness. The vision is my only hold back in continuing to taper. Maybe that will be something I just have to live with? I don't know. I hope not because I want to get off this drug. I will check in from time to time, but may not have an update on my withdrawal until the end of the summer. Until then....

[Jewlz]

A quick check-in. In my last post I mentioned my dog Foster biting my grandson, and my decision to put the dog down. I did go ahead with that choice and me and my daughter were with him when he passed on Wednesday. Such a hard decision to make, even knowing it's the best one for the circumstances. My other dog seems to be looking for his younger brother, so I'm working on ways to keep from a bout of depression. That may sound so obscure but I truly believe animals have feelings too.

 

As for me and any situational depression, I am certainly grieving  my loss of Foster, and will work through that process. I have many exciting things to look forward to on the horizon and feel I'm turning a corner on starting to socialize again. I've been very introverted, maybe a little reclusive occasionally for the past 4 years. It's time to get out and meet people and keep my social commitments and summer makes that alot easier.

 

My vision is still not 100%, but I understand that can be part of the withdrawal which is why I'm holding at 80mg. Sorry for any repetitive information.

[Jewlz]

Hello-I wanted to check in and update on withdrawal symptoms. My vision is still blurry. I thought my wd symptoms were subsiding but in the last few days I am so fatigued, never feeling rested enough and could nod off if I allowed myself to do so. Also night sweats, extreme thirst (not sure if that is a wd symptom or not), bone and joint achiness especially in my fingers which hurt so bad at times I want to cry. I also find myself becoming less attache to the outside world by not going out, not eating, and staying up late which could explain some of my fatigue. I don't feel depressed though. I don't know. I'm going to attach and article I  read in "Mad in America" an online periodical tat speaks to science, psychiatry and social justice. Here's the article:

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/05/tapering-strips-help-people-discontinue-antidepressants/  

 

Please reply with your thoughts.

 

[Jewlz]

Checking in again. Things have been going well, but I accidentally skipped my duloxetine dose yesterday and was feeling dizzy and nauseous and remembered to check my pill box this morning and sure enough I completely missed my dose from my yesterday. this oversight on my part explains why I was feeling so nauseous last night and dizzy and generally feeling like crap. I hope my missed dose kicks in soon, I have a class reunion tonight and want to be on my game. What about adding on to my dose to bring things back to normal? I went from a 90 to an 80 and then back to a 90. Is it advisable to take a 20 with the 90 I've already taken or just wait until tomorrow's dose time?

[Jewlz]

Is there a 'best time' to let a new person in my life know about the psych meds  I'm taking?

[Altostrata]

That would be a great topic to start in our Relationships forum.

[manymoretodays]

On 4/18/2018 at 9:48 PM, Jewlz said:

I did take 0.125 xanax last night at bedtime. I'm going to explore more about magnesium and  melatonin.

Oh.........I'm so hoping that you have explored and started with some magnesium for calming and/or sleep.  And tossed the Xanax in the trash.

 

Hi Jewlz,

I was going to respond to your topic in the relationships forum and then decided to review your introduction and found the above.  We generally don't support adding a benzo of any kind to deal with withdrawal symptoms.  That could actually add to your fuzzy brain, cog fog state and overall CNS depression. 

 

So........am hoping that your prn usage of Xanax hasn't happened.  And you've thrown that stuff in the trash(repeating myself on purpose!!!!).

 

This might be helpful for you to do and see........plug your current medications Lamictal and Cymbalta into the drug interactions checker here:  check drug interactions

(You can also use that site just to check on a singular medication as well, to learn more)

 

Then do it again and add Xanax.  You might also bookmark that site for future usage

Okie dokie,  that's what I had to say about that......

Love, peace, healing, and recovery,

mmt

.......and congratulations on your first 10% drop of Cymbalta..........and editing here.......Jewlz, I'm wondering now if you already have gone back up to 90 mg of Cymbalta.......per one of your posts above.  Your signature shows differently.  Perhaps if you feel like you can make no other changes..........you might work with your prescriber doctor on carefully/cautiously lowering your dosage of Lamictal a bit...........  I never had any benefit from a dose higher than 100 mg of Lamictal myself.......the higher doses seemed almost "depressive" with me........or too slowing.......just a thought......

Edited August 9, 2018 by manymoretodays

[Jewlz]

Hi mmt-

 

I thought I responded to your reply while using my smart phone? Maybe I didn't send it or posted in the relationship topic.

 

Anyway--I tried melatonin which I felt so hung over from. I did not try magnesium. The epsom salts baths sound relaxing. Last Saturday afterI had missed my dose the previous day had me feeling so crappy. I slept alot and eventually was able to eat a little bit and took my vitamins which helped tons. I was still not 100% for the class reunion, but enjoyed myself!

[lalala]

On 5/29/2018 at 7:29 PM, Jewlz said:

Hello-I wanted to check in and update on withdrawal symptoms. My vision is still blurry. I thought my wd symptoms were subsiding but in the last few days I am so fatigued, never feeling rested enough and could nod off if I allowed myself to do so. Also night sweats, extreme thirst (not sure if that is a wd symptom or not), bone and joint achiness especially in my fingers which hurt so bad at times I want to cry. I also find myself becoming less attache to the outside world by not going out, not eating, and staying up late which could explain some of my fatigue. I don't feel depressed though. I don't know. I'm going to attach and article I  read in "Mad in America" an online periodical tat speaks to science, psychiatry and social justice. Here's the article:

 

https://www.madinamerica.com/2018/05/tapering-strips-help-people-discontinue-antidepressants/  

 

Please reply with your thoughts.

 

Hi  Jewlz, I see that you  took xanax in may 1991 until 2015, did you taper off and  reinstalled in 2018  a low dose?  wondering how it was and how you did it.

hope you are going well  : )

[Jewlz]

Hi there-hopefully you will receive my response. Here's my history  with xanax. I started using xanax when I was a bone marrow donor for my sister who was dying fro leukemia. I was her only chance and it did not work. I'm still trying to work through the many emotions associated with that time in my life. So I never thought I was addicted to xanax because I always used the smallest dose and cut that in half BUT I did that for over 20 years!  One morning about 3-4 years ago and my son and his wife were visiting and I literally could not hold my head up or speak without slurring my words. I felt drunk, really drunK. At that point I said I was done and went cold turkey. This worked for me probably because I never took the drug on a prescribed basis. I had the same doc write me a script recently as I started down the path of anti-depressant withdrawal to help take the edge off any anxiety/stress during that process. He probably shouldn't have written the script knowing the direction I was heading. As it goes- and you may have read this, that with the script I've only used it maybe 2-3 times at half dose once a day, prescribed it is full dose 3x a day. I aware now that even though I may not take the drug as prescribed, that fact that I use it for a specific outcome, making everything better to me now means I'm medicating myself and a functional xanax addict. That is my experience. I've bypassed taking the drug for most of this summer opting instead to feel my emotions whether they be good or bad. Hope this helps.

[manymoretodays]

Hi Jewlz,

 

Hey, how are you doing?

 

Are you HOLDING at the 80 mg dose of  Duloxetine now?

I wasn't sure, as in your narrative, I saw you may have gone back up to 90 mg or more?

And that you had identified some W/D symptoms.

 

I just thought I would check back here.  I was just back at your thread in relationships.

 

So.......update us if you would.  Thank you.

 

You could go back to page one here in your introduction as well, and review some of the initial posts given to you then.

 

L,P, H, and R,

mmt

Edited September 19, 2018 by manymoretodays