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WackoSirJacko: Paroxetine can be messy

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WackoSirJacko

OK, stabilized on 37.5mg for couple of weeks now. I even had a heavy weekend on the booze which wasn't clever but I could handle the depression afterwards for a few days. I call that training. You need to dip into the lows and feel them to keep your management techniques on point I say. Down to 35mg today. Let's see how this goes. FIngers crossed.

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ChessieCat

Just saw this in BrassMonkey's intro and wanted to copy it here for your own reference:

 

10 minutes ago, WackoSirJacko said:

This morning I needed to read this. The thought of suffering for 2 years and more dragged me down and gave me massive anxiety over the weekend. Last night I came to the same conclusion and decided I'm going to lessn, not increase my drop downs. I'm in this for the long haul so take my time. I'm going to go 1mg a month, right down to 9mg if I can, if it gets tougher above that I may go 0.5mg. This is going to take years and I can either concentrate on it and suffer or try to make it as easy as possible and try to forget about it. Re. beers, I'm gonna be more careful, the upshot is I feel I'm living normally and enjoying life, but going too hard on them does create problems for sure.

 

Thanks for being there and helping us, you have no idea how important you are to us, you and the other mods are basically saving lives.

 

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WackoSirJacko

Thanks Chessie

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WackoSirJacko

Ok bit of help. Since my 2.5mg drop to 35 4 weeks ago I had the normal depression and anxiety but also a few emotions showing through which made my brain feel alive again. Too alive. Lots of activity, not all bad. Think it’s affected my sleep because I don’t feel so sedated, but the poor quality sleep is making me tired.

one new symptom is brain pressure, and almost a tingle feeling in parts of my brain. It moves around from love to lobe. It’s almost like there’s too much information being absorbed. I’m more alert and cognitively I can be sharp. But also exhausted from just too much brain activity. 

Anyone got experience of this coming and going? Is it a common symptom I have to get used to and accept as par for the course?

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WackoSirJacko

OK I'm getting brain pressure which started 4 weeks ago on my last drop from 37.5mg to 35mg Paroxetine. It's gone from separate areas of the brain to now a dull pressure all over. No massive anxiety or depression at the moment but this feeling is really disconcerting. My sleep hasn't been good the past 2 weeks either. Like my brain has been stimulated too much.

 

Anyone had this whilst tapering? Does it come and go? It was initially now and then but it kicked in yesterday and hasn't left.

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ChessieCat

Jun 17 Increased to 45mg Seroxat with little improvement

Mid Oct 17 lowered to 40mg

Nov 1st 17 lowered to 35mg

Mid Nov 17 back up to 40mg

Jan 2018 down to 37.5mg

8th Feb 2018 down to 35mg

 

It may be your doses changes at the end of last year are catching up with you.  I suggest that you do a nice long hold 2-3 months and allow your brain to catch up before making another reduction.

 

23 hours ago, WackoSirJacko said:

Anyone got experience of this coming and going? Is it a common symptom I have to get used to and accept as par for the course?

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Stabilising After a Reduction - What Does That Mean?

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WackoSirJacko
1 minute ago, ChessieCat said:

Jun 17 Increased to 45mg Seroxat with little improvement

Mid Oct 17 lowered to 40mg

Nov 1st 17 lowered to 35mg

Mid Nov 17 back up to 40mg

Jan 2018 down to 37.5mg

8th Feb 2018 down to 35mg

 

It may be your doses changes at the end of last year are catching up with you.  I suggest that you do a nice long hold 2-3 months and allow your brain to catch up before making another reduction.

 

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Stabilising After a Reduction - What Does That Mean?

Yeh, I think I agree. Thanks for the reply. X

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Cheeky

Hey WSJ.

How are you ?

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WackoSirJacko
On 21/03/2018 at 9:54 PM, Cheeky said:

Hey WSJ.

How are you ?

 

Hey Cheeky,

 

Sorry for late reply. Yeh I'm ok as can be I suppose. Balanced out on 35 and ready for another drop. When I balance I get so exhausted. It's like the drug has chance to take over again after all the adrenaline dies down, and the body needs to adjust to not having all that nervous energy. I guess that's what depression is, or part of it. How are you?

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Cheeky

It’s good to hear your doing better. I myself have been haveing good days with

a little aniexty and other days with more. 

Im going to hold out for a while as I have a lot of stres at home and work. I’m happy your doing great 

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Cheeky

Hey SWJ.

How you going ?

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WackoSirJacko
On 10/04/2018 at 2:55 AM, Cheeky said:

Hey SWJ.

How you going ?

 

Sorry for late reply,

 

Yeh, I'm doing ok, drop from 35 to 32.5 was hardly noticable. But had gastroenteritis the past fortnight which was horrendous. Best diet ever though for summer.

 

How are you?

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Cheeky
13 hours ago, WackoSirJacko said:

 

Sorry for late reply,

 

Yeh, I'm doing ok, drop from 35 to 32.5 was hardly noticable. But had gastroenteritis the past fortnight which was horrendous. Best diet ever though for summer.

 

How are you?

That’s good to hear, I will have to drop but I’m a bit scared to. I’m going to give my brain s break for  awhile.

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WackoSirJacko
On 19/04/2018 at 11:12 PM, Cheeky said:

That’s good to hear, I will have to drop but I’m a bit scared to. I’m going to give my brain s break for  awhile.

Biggest thing for me at the moment is fatigue and exhaustion. I could literally sleep 16 hours a day. 

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Cheeky
12 hours ago, WackoSirJacko said:

Biggest thing for me at the moment is fatigue and exhaustion. I could literally sleep 16 hours a day. 

If that’s the biggest problem then your doing okay. If I had that only when in a wave I could handle that. 

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WackoSirJacko
On 4/25/2018 at 3:04 AM, Cheeky said:

If that’s the biggest problem then your doing okay. If I had that only when in a wave I could handle that. 

Oh believe me, I've had more than fatigue before now. I think the worst symptom is always the one you are currently dealing with haha

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bhasski

True,

Any symptom which stays and disable functioning most time of the day is worst in time frame.

 

I have anger, rumination,tensed head.. all contributing to each other. This is worst for me as it takes all my day.

 

Other symptoms: memory recall, indigestion etc etc etc.. 

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WackoSirJacko
4 minutes ago, bhasski said:

True,

Any symptom which stays and disable functioning most time of the day is worst in time frame.

 

I have anger, rumination,tensed head.. all contributing to each other. This is worst for me as it takes all my day.

 

Other symptoms: memory recall, indigestion etc etc etc.. 

Fatigue has dissipated some for now. I’m actually 3 weeks into giving up smoking, which is tough on anyone. I’ve found out cigarettes have (other than nicotine) some chemicals with MAOI properties. So basically they are an antidepressant. 

Thatll be why I’m depressed at the moment then.

 

onwards and upwards

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WackoSirJacko

UPDATE

 

After 6 weeks of giving up smoking (at a stable level on 32.5mg) the depression started lifting. It's just the same as a fairly hefty paroxetine drop really. You lose the effectiveness of the drug and your brain slowly replaces it. It was harder than an average drop though, really difficult for a while but I'm glad I pushed through it. 

 

After 6 weeks I felt ok enough to go for another taper drop of paroxetine down from 32.5mg to 30mg. Pretty usual pattern so far, first week feel great, then when it hits I get depression, now after 2 weeks I've got a confused, dizzy, anxious head with light depression. Slight windows are coming in slowly though.

 

From 45 to 30 - that's a bit of a landmark, I'd celebrate if I didn't feel so 5h*t

 

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DaveB
35 minutes ago, WackoSirJacko said:

UPDATE

 

After 6 weeks of giving up smoking (at a stable level on 32.5mg) the depression started lifting. It's just the same as a fairly hefty paroxetine drop really. You lose the effectiveness of the drug and your brain slowly replaces it. It was harder than an average drop though, really difficult for a while but I'm glad I pushed through it. 

 

After 6 weeks I felt ok enough to go for another taper drop of paroxetine down from 32.5mg to 30mg. Pretty usual pattern so far, first week feel great, then when it hits I get depression, now after 2 weeks I've got a confused, dizzy, anxious head with light depression. Slight windows are coming in slowly though.

 

From 45 to 30 - that's a bit of a landmark, I'd celebrate if I didn't feel so 5h*t

 

Big congrats to you! No more smoking and down to 30mgs! Still holding for me and waiting to join you in a taper, hopefully soon!

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brassmonkey

Excellent progress SirJacko.  You've removed a full third of your drug load, well done.  Congratulations also on making it six week tobacco free.

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WackoSirJacko
20 hours ago, DaveB said:

Big congrats to you! No more smoking and down to 30mgs! Still holding for me and waiting to join you in a taper, hopefully soon!

 

11 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Excellent progress SirJacko.  You've removed a full third of your drug load, well done.  Congratulations also on making it six week tobacco free.

 

Thanks Guys, appreciate it

 

Smoking was dragging me down big time, heavy breathing etc etc, getting rid of that makes the rest easier.

 

Get there DaveB, you can do it!

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WackoSirJacko

OK, 30mg wasn't hard, but wasn't easy either. Not much anxiety but some negative thinking and light depression. Onwards and upwards though.

 

Done to 27.5mg as of yesterday

 

I've got a theory, everytime I take a drop I seem to feel good for the first few days or so. This leads me to believe there's a benefit to the reuptake of serotonin, not just the level being held in the brain. As the reduction allows some to be taken back into the brain the mood improves, when you are left with a lower level and the brain has to react by regenerating the ability to produce more, that's the few weeks of symptoms. Anyway, could be something in it.

 

 

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WackoSirJacko

I'VE CRASHED

 

Hopefully it's not that bad a crash and I'll recover quick. Since my last drop to 25mg things were a bit harder and took longer to clear up, then came back. Then this weekend I was stupid. I went out drinking (I've been fine drinking so far). I take 20mg in the morning and then 5mg at night. I forgot to take my 5mg Friday night and got drunk. Then I slept all day Saturday and went out and had a few beers again. I think I was running away from it rather than facing it and calming down and chilling. I forgot to take my 5mg again Saturday night.

 

Unsurprisingly, I crashed last night, Monday. Panic attack and surge of adrenaline. Terrible sleep.

 

So, first thing I did when I felt the surge panic - I went for a run. I recognised I have been putting myself under lots of pressure, thinking about changing my job to get more money. Worried about progressing in life instead of relaxing and accepting my soul needs to heal from this tapering.

 

Hopefully I can pull myself back together and steady out on 25mg again. Words of encouragement are welcome please.

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Carmie
3 hours ago, WackoSirJacko said:

I'VE CRASHED

 

Hopefully it's not that bad a crash and I'll recover quick. Since my last drop to 25mg things were a bit harder and took longer to clear up, then came back. Then this weekend I was stupid. I went out drinking (I've been fine drinking so far). I take 20mg in the morning and then 5mg at night. I forgot to take my 5mg Friday night and got drunk. Then I slept all day Saturday and went out and had a few beers again. I think I was running away from it rather than facing it and calming down and chilling. I forgot to take my 5mg again Saturday night.

 

Unsurprisingly, I crashed last night, Monday. Panic attack and surge of adrenaline. Terrible sleep.

 

So, first thing I did when I felt the surge panic - I went for a run. I recognised I have been putting myself under lots of pressure, thinking about changing my job to get more money. Worried about progressing in life instead of relaxing and accepting my soul needs to heal from this tapering.

 

Hopefully I can pull myself back together and steady out on 25mg again. Words of encouragement are welcome please.

 

Hi WackoSirJacko, 

 

This process can certainly take it’s toll on our emotional health, I see the stress of it has made you drink. As you no doubt know, drinking can make our symptoms worse. Not only that, in your case it made you forget your meds a couple of nights in a row. 

 

I’m so sorry that happened but just go back to taking your evening meds n you will eventually stabilise again. Please stay off the alcohol too. I know sometimes you may feel a little better with a drink or two but then afterwards it can make your symptoms much worse. 

 

Don’t overdo the jogging or other strenuous things either as they ramp up your CNS n can also make your symptoms much worse. All these things we have to think about in this process called tapering.

 

While your in a wave find some things to distract yourself that don’t take too much physical energy. Just take a minute at a time. You will eventually hit a window again. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

 

 

 

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Blandell

I have a cider most evenings or a glass or two of wine...how has this been shown to affect Paxil taper?

im waking up with anxiety for last week and it is there all day. Depressed feelings too. I’m wondering if having any alcohol is making tapering much harder.

thanks in advance!

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brassmonkey

Hi Blandell-- as you can see from SirJacko's experience alcohol can be a very big problem while tapering. We recommend not drinking at all while tapering.  Many people have tried it and get away with it for a while then one night/morning bam the hangover from H.  Small amounts while tapering can make you feel bad and increase symptoms as you are finding out.  Have a big night out and you'll be paying for it for weeks.  Things do eventually settle out after an alcohol crash but ti can take a frustratingly long time and the self recrimination can really get in the way of recovery. 

 

The bad thing about drinking while taking paxil is that the drug actually increases alcohol craving making you want more and more every night.  It also cuts the sensation of the alcohol so you don't feel as drunk, until you pass out. It also decreases one's self control so taking the next drink is even easier.  Depending on how much one is drinking an extended taper of the alcohol may be called for to safely stop. Tapering alcohol while on paxil is very hard to do because of the self control factor I mentioned.  If the amount is fairly small then just stopping is the best course of action.

 

It's going to take several week or more for SirJacko to recover from this, but it will happen.  He'll be able to get back on track and taper again.  However, he will now more than likely be very sensitive to alcohol and the next time could be even worse.  He is handling the situation nicely though which really counts. 

 

SirJacko, sorry for talking about you in the third party, that's just the way the post wrote itself, I answered your  PM.

 

Brassmonkey

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WackoSirJacko
13 hours ago, Blandell said:

I have a cider most evenings or a glass or two of wine...how has this been shown to affect Paxil taper?

im waking up with anxiety for last week and it is there all day. Depressed feelings too. I’m wondering if having any alcohol is making tapering much harder.

thanks in advance!

Ha, yes

 

Although, I do think there's a benefit to moderation, but not every night. Having a couple of pints once a week got me out of my whole and into a social situation. 

My crash was coming for about a month I reckon, the build up felt the same. It's definitely from tapering, which stressed me, which made me feel negative, which put me on a path of Pleasure seeking. So looking for new job, being dissatisfied, drinking more, and that was a vicious circle down.

There is no doubt in what Brass monkey says, alcohol hits all our neurotransmitters and we get the pleasure quick but are left with a big deficit the next day. So if you are going to have a pint, know there is a pay off.

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WackoSirJacko
20 hours ago, Carmie said:

 

Hi WackoSirJacko, 

 

This process can certainly take it’s toll on our emotional health, I see the stress of it has made you drink. As you no doubt know, drinking can make our symptoms worse. Not only that, in your case it made you forget your meds a couple of nights in a row. 

 

I’m so sorry that happened but just go back to taking your evening meds n you will eventually stabilise again. Please stay off the alcohol too. I know sometimes you may feel a little better with a drink or two but then afterwards it can make your symptoms much worse. 

 

Don’t overdo the jogging or other strenuous things either as they ramp up your CNS n can also make your symptoms much worse. All these things we have to think about in this process called tapering.

 

While your in a wave find some things to distract yourself that don’t take too much physical energy. Just take a minute at a time. You will eventually hit a window again. 

 

Sending hugs🤗

 

 

 

 

Thanks so much Carmie.

Bit better sleep last night. Few days off work. Hopefully I'll drag myself back quickly. X

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WackoSirJacko
13 hours ago, brassmonkey said:

Hi Blandell-- as you can see from SirJacko's experience alcohol can be a very big problem while tapering. We recommend not drinking at all while tapering.  Many people have tried it and get away with it for a while then one night/morning bam the hangover from H.  Small amounts while tapering can make you feel bad and increase symptoms as you are finding out.  Have a big night out and you'll be paying for it for weeks.  Things do eventually settle out after an alcohol crash but ti can take a frustratingly long time and the self recrimination can really get in the way of recovery. 

 

The bad thing about drinking while taking paxil is that the drug actually increases alcohol craving making you want more and more every night.  It also cuts the sensation of the alcohol so you don't feel as drunk, until you pass out. It also decreases one's self control so taking the next drink is even easier.  Depending on how much one is drinking an extended taper of the alcohol may be called for to safely stop. Tapering alcohol while on paxil is very hard to do because of the self control factor I mentioned.  If the amount is fairly small then just stopping is the best course of action.

 

It's going to take several week or more for SirJacko to recover from this, but it will happen.  He'll be able to get back on track and taper again.  However, he will now more than likely be very sensitive to alcohol and the next time could be even worse.  He is handling the situation nicely though which really counts. 

 

SirJacko, sorry for talking about you in the third party, that's just the way the post wrote itself, I answered your  PM.

 

Brassmonkey

Thanks Brass,

As ever your wisdom on this journey is much appreciated. When will I learn to recognise when these crashes come. They have been doing the same thing to me for 20 years and I still don't see them coming, but after its obvious.

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Blandell

Thanks wackojacko!

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Carmie
On 8/22/2018 at 6:22 PM, WackoSirJacko said:

Thanks so much Carmie.

Bit better sleep last night. Few days off work. Hopefully I'll drag myself back quickly. X

 

 

Hi WackoJacko, 

 

Glad you got some better sleep. How are u doing now?

 

Sending hugs🤗

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WackoSirJacko
On 8/27/2018 at 4:43 AM, Carmie said:

 

 

Hi WackoJacko, 

 

Glad you got some better sleep. How are u doing now?

 

Sending hugs🤗

I'm kinda ok, I'm just stuck in high anxiety that wears off in the evening now. Did you go through bouts like this?

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WackoSirJacko

Just an update for myself to look back on really.

 

I crashed Monday 20th August. Massive anxiety. Had a few days off that were already booked. Started smoking again Thursday unfortunately, but this kick started my brain at least. Was in deep anxious nothingness and pretty despaired but slowly, day by day it's gotten better. DJ'ed and drank on the Friday which actually didn't do me much harm. When really anxious the alcohol is just respite for a bit when desperate. Glimmers of emotion and hope come occasionally then go, then come back. Things started to improve when back at work. 

 

Morning anxiety continues through the day and dissipates at night, but not fully. As the days go on the anxiety dissipates a little earlier. My mind is looking for reasons and trying to latch onto the fear of it becoming Winter. This is my brain lying! There is a mood shift as the Summer ends and SAD has a little to do with it but this is just negative thinking and my brain trying to place the anxiety to something. This happened because your last drop at the end of July was a a hard one and you let yourself spiral down. Accept it next time, accept Autumn and slow down. Then when you lift out you will enjoy the dark nights, the fires, maybe even Christmas.

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Carmie
On 8/28/2018 at 7:23 PM, WackoSirJacko said:

I'm kinda ok, I'm just stuck in high anxiety that wears off in the evening now. Did you go through bouts like this?

 

Hi WackoJacko, 

 

Yes, I certainly have had high bouts of anxiety at times. Most of the time it hasn’t been like a normal anxiety. I’ve heard people describe it as chemical anxiety n that’s what it feels like. 

 

I know that alcohol may have given u a bit of respite but it then has a knock on effect that makes our symptoms worse.

 

A lot of people get SAD in winter. I’m not one of them, I love all seasons. I love snuggling up in front of the heater in winter n I love hearing the rain. I also love the summer n going to the beach.

 

I hope your anxiety has died down a little.

 

Sending hugs🤗

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WackoSirJacko
On 9/2/2018 at 12:21 AM, Carmie said:

 

Hi WackoJacko, 

 

Yes, I certainly have had high bouts of anxiety at times. Most of the time it hasn’t been like a normal anxiety. I’ve heard people describe it as chemical anxiety n that’s what it feels like. 

 

I know that alcohol may have given u a bit of respite but it then has a knock on effect that makes our symptoms worse.

 

A lot of people get SAD in winter. I’m not one of them, I love all seasons. I love snuggling up in front of the heater in winter n I love hearing the rain. I also love the summer n going to the beach.

 

I hope your anxiety has died down a little.

 

Sending hugs🤗

It has indeed, thankyou

 

Anxiety is actually relatively easy to get rid of if you have the right mindset. Accept, don't believe the negative thoughts and just ride it through with no expectations of it to go. Then it calms down over a few days I find. Although I do get SAD a bit, my paranoia about it was fuelled by the crash making it a far bigger issue than it actually is. I've done some CBT on what's good about Winter and I'm almost looking forward to it now.

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