Is it possible to have permanently damaged myself with a too fast taper?

[Hellbutrin]

Feeling like *&^% right now, any feedback is appreciated! Thanks.

[RealMe]

Hi Hellbutrin,

What are cortisol spikes, and how do you know you are having them?  Is anything going on relationship-wise that might be affecting you?  What happened today?  Want to talk about anything?

I had been suffering from my symptoms so severely that I was desperate.  I got some good ideas on the site and was able to feel something like a window today.  I wish the same for you.  How wonderful that you were able to taper off your AD.  I am stabilizing on fluoxetine 10 mg., but I aspire to be free of AD like you some day.  Are you able to work?

Best to you.  Hang on.

 

 

[Hellbutrin]

Thank you for your kind words. No, my relationship is one of the only things keeping me together. My symptoms have been terrible and I’m currently experiencing my third straight week in a wave. Don’t be sorry that you are still tapering, I wish I had found this site earlier and know to taper way slower than I did.  Cortisol spikes are periods of stress increase that heighten anxiety, typically in the morning after not sleeping well. I haven’t slept more then 3-4 hours per night in three weeks. At this point I’m scared that I’ve done permanent damage and that I won’t recover.

[RealMe]

I think the brain is a marvelous thing, and with the right care is capable of recovery.  Have you been consuming any caffeine?  Could that be keeping you awake?  Caffeine doesn't keep me from sleeping, but I wonder if it affects the quality of my sleep causing me to feel like I'm not rested.  I have cut down considerably since I came on this site, and I hope I can taper even more.  Thank you for explaining cortisol spikes to me.  I learn so much on this site.  I've been on so many medications (drugs) for so long, I too hope I can recover.  

[Hellbutrin]

12 hours ago, RealMe said:

I think the brain is a marvelous thing, and with the right care is capable of recovery.  Have you been consuming any caffeine?  Could that be keeping you awake?  Caffeine doesn't keep me from sleeping, but I wonder if it affects the quality of my sleep causing me to feel like I'm not rested.  I have cut down considerably since I came on this site, and I hope I can taper even more.  Thank you for explaining cortisol spikes to me.  I learn so much on this site.  I've been on so many medications (drugs) for so long, I too hope I can recover.  

Of course, I think that this site is the one thing that is really helping me to get through this. Just try to be as cautious as you can be when tapering, I can definitely speak from experience when I say that it can make or break your recovery. I think that I have unnecessarily prolonged my recovery by at least a few months with how quickly I "tapered". I haven't consumed any caffeine since starting this bad wave that I'm currently in since the end of October. I find that my bad waves usually coincide with how well I sleep. My main concern is that I threw my autonomic regulation off too much with how quickly I tapered, and it's been so long since I've taken any of the medication that I don't think that a reinstatement is even an option for me now.  

[Trichotomous]

I was on Paroxetine for sixteen years, I believe, when I quit. That's a long time. The dosage was rather low, which was likely a plus. I tapered down to 5mg before quitting.

 

The big side-effect was high anxiety, which can proceed any number of other nasty symptoms. When I read mention of permanent brain damage, it was while in the depths of withdrawal and while plagued with myriad problems, some which even seemed to indicate some sort of brain damage.

 

I suffered a solid two years of withdrawal from Paroxetine, effects compounded by my age, life style, and diet. That was a solid two years of suspecting I had brain damage.

 

Now I realize any "brain damage" I suffered is cured by a good night's sleep or a cup of coffee.

 

Bear in mind that withdrawal can be a lengthy processes, during which time you will not feel right and desperate to get back to feeling right. Sleeplessness is common for everyone here, I imagine. I thought it was going to kill me that first year. You can push through it, or go back to the drugs—and that's all the choice you get. Counseling helps with the fight.

 

Be very careful should you choose supplements to help you along, and pay attention to how your body reacts to everything you do, everything you ingest.

[Hellbutrin]

27 minutes ago, Trichotomous said:

I was on Paroxetine for sixteen years, I believe, when I quit. That's a long time. The dosage was rather low, which was likely a plus. I tapered down to 5mg before quitting.

 

The big side-effect was high anxiety, which can proceed any number of other nasty symptoms. When I read mention of permanent brain damage, it was while in the depths of withdrawal and while plagued with myriad problems, some which even seemed to indicate some sort of brain damage.

 

I suffered a solid two years of withdrawal from Paroxetine, effects compounded by my age, life style, and diet. That was a solid two years of suspecting I had brain damage.

 

Now I realize any "brain damage" I suffered is cured by a good night's sleep or a cup of coffee.

 

Bear in mind that withdrawal can be a lengthy processes, during which time you will not feel right and desperate to get back to feeling right. Sleeplessness is common for everyone here, I imagine. I thought it was going to kill me that first year. You can push through it, or go back to the drugs—and that's all the choice you get. Counseling helps with the fight.

 

Be very careful should you choose supplements to help you along, and pay attention to how your body reacts to everything you do, everything you ingest.

Hi Trichotomous,

 

Thanks for for your feedback! It helps hearing from people that are through the worst of their withdrawal. How long into your withdrawal did it take for you to see an improvement in cognition/memory? I’m still in the beginning stages of withdrawal, but I used the drug for less than two years, so I’m desperately hoping that my withdrawals will improve in months instead of years. My depressive waves are severe, and definitely the symptom that rattles me the most. But I also haven’t had any windows where I feel like myself in the three and a half months since I’ve been off of Wellbutrin completely. I can’t feel happiness or get excited about anything, and the mornings are the absolute WORST. Have you had improvements with anhedonia and memory/concentration? 

[Trichotomous]

21 minutes ago, Hellbutrin said:

Hi Trichotomous,

 

Thanks for for your feedback! It helps hearing from people that are through the worst of their withdrawal. How long into your withdrawal did it take for you to see an improvement in cognition/memory? I’m still in the beginning stages of withdrawal, but I used the drug for less than two years, so I’m desperately hoping that my withdrawals will improve in months instead of years. My depressive waves are severe, and definitely the symptom that rattles me the most. But I also haven’t had any windows where I feel like myself in the three and a half months since I’ve been off of Wellbutrin completely. I can’t feel happiness or get excited about anything, and the mornings are the absolute WORST. Have you had improvements with anhedonia and memory/concentration? 

 

I saw changes in cognition within days of stopping Paroxetine. That crap was an anchor around my brain. Some cognitive improvements were symptomatic of mania, which is part of withdrawal. However, overall, cognition returned quickly, while improvements in mood and stability dragged slowly along for two years.

 

I did not feel right for two years after Paroxetine. Anxiety was the worst of my symptoms, and it cascaded into others, such as sleeplessness, despair, and depression. Counseling was a big help during this time. For me, anxiety was worse than depression. It's possible I never actually suffered from depression at all, but from generalized anxiety disorder or PTSD, instead. I remember being afraid to be happy or excited, convinced as I was that something terrible would result from having any sort of hope or aspiration.

 

My memory went to **** during those two years. This may be attributed to insomnia. There were times when I could not remember anything I was just told. Seriously. My family was scared. But memory has gotten better as my sleep has improved.

 

For me, DHEA has been great in balancing cortisol, which seems out of whack in me for some reason. Counseling helped a lot, especially when I was really on edge. Of course, everyone is different, and we each have to find what works best for our own situation.

 

Hey, fish oil may cause insomnia for some people. It does to me. I can't take it. Just something to think about.

[Hellbutrin]

20 minutes ago, Trichotomous said:

 

I saw changes in cognition within days of stopping Paroxetine. That crap was an anchor around my brain. Some cognitive improvements were symptomatic of mania, which is part of withdrawal. However, overall, cognition returned quickly, while improvements in mood and stability dragged slowly along for two years.

 

I did not feel right for two years after Paroxetine. Anxiety was the worst of my symptoms, and it cascaded into others, such as sleeplessness, despair, and depression. Counseling was a big help during this time. For me, anxiety was worse than depression. It's possible I never actually suffered from depression at all, but from generalized anxiety disorder or PTSD, instead. I remember being afraid to be happy or excited, convinced as I was that something terrible would result from having any sort of hope or aspiration.

 

My memory went to **** during those two years. This may be attributed to insomnia. There were times when I could not remember anything I was just told. Seriously. My family was scared. But memory has gotten better as my sleep has improved.

 

For me, DHEA has been great in balancing cortisol, which seems out of whack in me for some reason. Counseling helped a lot, especially when I was really on edge. Of course, everyone is different, and we each have to find what works best for our own situation.

 

Hey, fish oil may cause insomnia for some people. It does to me. I can't take it. Just something to think about.

That's a little concerning. My memory and concentration have gotten progressively worse since I quit taking Wellbutrin. I feel that it is solely the withdrawal that has caused this since being on Wellbutrin actually caused me to be hyper focused. I don't have the ability to be really happy, and haven't since I started taking this drug. I'm just a little worried that the "happy feelings" aren't starting to return now that I'm totally off of the medications. 

[Trichotomous]

4 hours ago, Hellbutrin said:

That's a little concerning. My memory and concentration have gotten progressively worse since I quit taking Wellbutrin. I feel that it is solely the withdrawal that has caused this since being on Wellbutrin actually caused me to be hyper focused. I don't have the ability to be really happy, and haven't since I started taking this drug. I'm just a little worried that the "happy feelings" aren't starting to return now that I'm totally off of the medications. 

 

How long have you been off this stuff?

 

How are you sleeping?

 

If you aren't sleeping well, that is the most important thing to address, as it is going to make recovery very difficult. If you are not sleeping right, take a hard look at everything you are ingesting.

[Hellbutrin]

1 hour ago, Trichotomous said:

 

How long have you been off this stuff?

 

How are you sleeping?

 

If you aren't sleeping well, that is the most important thing to address, as it is going to make recovery very difficult. If you are not sleeping right, take a hard look at everything you are ingesting.

I finished my short 4 week taper on August 11th, so I've been totally off for 3 and a half months. I have been having terrible issues with insomnia since I started my taper, but it seems to come and go in a windows and waves pattern. I just haven't had any instances so far where I have felt like I'm starting to get back to my old self. I know that the drugs have probably permanently altered me in some ways, but lately I feel like I'm not really able to feel joy or happiness at all, and I'm terrified that my brain is stuck in this pattern. I'm also struggling severely with depression, which I never had prior to withdrawal, and I haven't seen any improvement in that either. I took the drugs in the first place in order to address some anxiety issues that I was having related to starting graduate school. I took the medication all through grad school, and now when I look back I can hardly remember the experience, my working memory is totally shot. I don't see a lot of experiences similar to mine related to the medication that I was taking, so I'm concerned that I was too sensitive to have been taking this medication in the first place, and that it might have done some permanent damage. I just want to see some first hand experiences to encourage me that it will get better. 

[Trichotomous]

21 hours ago, Hellbutrin said:

I finished my short 4 week taper on August 11th, so I've been totally off for 3 and a half months. I have been having terrible issues with insomnia since I started my taper, but it seems to come and go in a windows and waves pattern. I just haven't had any instances so far where I have felt like I'm starting to get back to my old self. I know that the drugs have probably permanently altered me in some ways, but lately I feel like I'm not really able to feel joy or happiness at all, and I'm terrified that my brain is stuck in this pattern. I'm also struggling severely with depression, which I never had prior to withdrawal, and I haven't seen any improvement in that either. I took the drugs in the first place in order to address some anxiety issues that I was having related to starting graduate school. I took the medication all through grad school, and now when I look back I can hardly remember the experience, my working memory is totally shot. I don't see a lot of experiences similar to mine related to the medication that I was taking, so I'm concerned that I was too sensitive to have been taking this medication in the first place, and that it might have done some permanent damage. I just want to see some first hand experiences to encourage me that it will get better. 

 

It gets better, but not so much after just a couple months. It takes more time than that, unfortunately.

 

Have you had your cortisol levels checked?

[Hellbutrin]

17 minutes ago, Trichotomous said:

 

It gets better, but not so much after just a couple months. It takes more time than that, unfortunately.

 

Have you had your cortisol levels checked?

No, but I know that a lot of issues with memory and depersonalization/derealization have to do with damage to the brain's frontal lobe, and that is the area that Wellbutrin stimulates the most as it's acting mechanism. So I'm wondering if that is contributing to the severity of my DP/DR and my depression.

[RealMe]

On 11/19/2017 at 11:53 AM, Trichotomous said:

 

I saw changes in cognition within days of stopping Paroxetine. That crap was an anchor around my brain. Some cognitive improvements were symptomatic of mania, which is part of withdrawal. However, overall, cognition returned quickly, while improvements in mood and stability dragged slowly along for two years.

 

I did not feel right for two years after Paroxetine. Anxiety was the worst of my symptoms, and it cascaded into others, such as sleeplessness, despair, and depression. Counseling was a big help during this time. For me, anxiety was worse than depression. It's possible I never actually suffered from depression at all, but from generalized anxiety disorder or PTSD, instead. I remember being afraid to be happy or excited, convinced as I was that something terrible would result from having any sort of hope or aspiration.

 

My memory went to **** during those two years. This may be attributed to insomnia. There were times when I could not remember anything I was just told. Seriously. My family was scared. But memory has gotten better as my sleep has improved.

 

For me, DHEA has been great in balancing cortisol, which seems out of whack in me for some reason. Counseling helped a lot, especially when I was really on edge. Of course, everyone is different, and we each have to find what works best for our own situation.

 

Hey, fish oil may cause insomnia for some people. It does to me. I can't take it. Just something to think about.

 

[RealMe]

What's DHEA?

 

[Trichotomous]

DHEA is a hormone already in your system providing a balance to cortisol. When either hormone is lacking, we are a hot mess.

 

You can get it over the counter and it is fairly inexpensive.

[Trichotomous]

13 hours ago, Hellbutrin said:

No, but I know that a lot of issues with memory and depersonalization/derealization have to do with damage to the brain's frontal lobe, and that is the area that Wellbutrin stimulates the most as it's acting mechanism. So I'm wondering if that is contributing to the severity of my DP/DR and my depression.

 

I don't believe you can identify "brain damage" this early into your withdrawal. What you are experiencing is more likely symptomatic of withdrawal, and not indicative of "brain damage." Telling yourself that you have "brain damage" puts more stress on your already full plate that you should not have to deal with at this point. Give yourself much more time before concluding your brain has been permanently altered in any particular fashion.

[papaloapan]

The body can always heal. A tool that will give you hope if you watch it are the videos in this link: https://beyondmeds.com/2019/01/31/heal-brain-injury/

in which a neuroscientist says by evidence, a case of a person that had a physical severe injury in her brain/brain damage and it healed and she also says that people that got their nervous systems severely injured by adverse effects of psychiatric drugs taken for a very long time, that they also recover, that the brain also heals in this case.  Also the author of beyondmeds.com knows a lot of people that had severe adverse effects from psychiatric drugs, went through the worst withdrawal, and they recovered, they healed. Another great thing that will give you hope to know that your body will heal, is the documentary HEAL which you can watch on netflix, which says that under the right conditions, all organs and tissues, all the parts of the body, heal, no matter how long you had the illness/symptoms, even if you had them for a lot of years. That has been scientifically proven. Ignore the christian/religious things she says and focus on the scientific things she mention.