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Nootropics for withdrawal


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Hello to everyone. I will briefly share my history with antidepressants and the solution I've found to relieve the symptoms of abrupt withdrawal. Last year I was diagnosed with mixed depressive and anxiety disorder. My doc put me on Zoloft 50mg/day.

 

For a time it was good. Then, about 5 months later I decided that I do not need anymore the medication so I decided to stop it. I had from my sister some Ixel (milnacipran) - a SNRI with relatively short half-live (8h). I slowly tapered the Zoloft to 12.5mg and then I started to take the Ixel instead the Zoloft.

 

Everything was successful. But 3 months ago I had another depressive episode so I decided that I need again to start an antidepressant therapy. I started Zoloft 25mg/day on my own (I had the prescription paper for Zoloft, so I could buy as many as I wanted).

 

But being a fool, a month later, I thought that the antidepressant medication is an obstacle to my successful study, I decided to stop it. I didn't know that the Zoloft is one of the strongest antidepressants, and thought: "I take it only for about a month, and it is not working at full degree, so I can stop it abruptly." That is what I did. The the brain zaps started. I thought they will disappear soon, so I firmly endured them.

 

Two weeks later I realized that they were decreased, but they were still there. I read somewhere in the net that this condition may last for months or even years. I was shocked. They recommended to start again the medication and to slowly decrease it. I started it again at 12.5 mg/day. But the effect was so strong like I was on 100mg. So I quit. And decided that I will not take any more any antidepressant and that I will fight on my own.

 

I started looking for solution. Omega 3, 5htp, exercises, etc. But they relieved a little bit the symptoms of withdrawal, but did not cure it. I read that the brain zaps may be caused by a circulatory problem of the brain - some areas to be overloaded with blood. I thought that a medication that is used to treat high blood pressure might help. I had some Ginkgo at home. And really it helped. But not what I wanted - a 100% cure.

 

Then I remembered about Vinpocetine - medication with nootropic properties and also used for high blood pressure and insults. I bought it from the local store - tables of 10 mg. Here it cost about 3.5 euros. I began with caution. I take a quarter tablet - 2.5mg and it was a great suprize when all the negative symptoms of the antidepressant withdrawal disappeared and I was again a normal person.

 

When the effect of the drug (which is about 10h) wears off the negative symptoms of the withdrawal are back. So I searched the net for more information about the biochemical effect of the Vinpocetine. It came that this medication actually blocks The vesicular monoamine transporter (VMAT)[a transport protein integrated into the membrane of intracellular vesicles of presynaptic neurons. It acts to transport monoamines into the synaptic vesicles; Monoamines transported by VMATs are mainly noradrenaline, adrenaline and isoprenaline.

 

However, other substrates include dopamine, 5-HT, guanethidine and MPP+.] It blocks the uptake (and storage) of serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline. I connected this to the clinical picture of SSRI withdrawal. The SSRI blocks the reuptake transporter for serotonin, thus increasing the level of serotonin in the synaptic cleft. But the body is not stupid. It reacts to this increased levels of serotonin by decreasing the numbers of receptors on the post synaptic neuron, thus restoring the ratio and harmony there.

 

But the SSRI are so strong that the body must decrease the number of post synaptic receptors to minimum or zero but this is not practically possible,and so the picture is that there are increased levels of serotonin and decreased number of post synaptic receptors - and this is the antidepressant effect that we feel when they are working on our brains.

 

But when he stop the abruptly the brain doesn't have the appropriate time to restore the balance between the levels of serotonin and the numbers of receptors, and it happens that the numbers of the receptors is still very decreased, but the levels of serotonin (when the SSRI medication is fully cleared of the blood) are still high, no so much compared to the presence of a SSRI, but still high. And its like the effect of the medication did not wear off.

 

This condition will last till the brain restores the ratio between the levels of serotonin and the numbers of post synaptic receptors, but it will take time, here supplements of omega 3 and so on help because the brain is constructed of almost 60-70% of these fats. However, lets get back to the Vinpocetine and it help in the current case.

 

By lowering the levels of serotonin, it returns artificially the ratio at a good level between the levels of serotonin and the numbers of decreased post synaptic receptors and we feel normal again. The only problem of all this is that it lowers also the levels of dopamine and noradrenaline, but I've found that this can be restored by adding to the mix something like coffee or something that increases them.

 

In a matter of fact it is not a pain to die of. The main thing is that the serotonin is stabilized and I feel like there is no trace of the SSRI withdrawal. I take it, the Vinpocetine, 2,5mg two or three times a day - morning, noon and evening. I will be happy if anyone has some experience with this to share, or when someone try it and write a comment. Thanks for reading, hope that this will be helpful for all suffers of this nightmarish SSRI withdrawal.

 

Here you can read more about Vinpocetine : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VinpocetineBest regards, Peter

Edited by Shep
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Hi Peter, this is very interesting. How long before you noticed it working? Can you tell me what symptoms it has been particulary helpful for please?

Started Seroxat(Paxil) for panic attacks in 1997 stopped the drug in 2005 tapered over 3 months ( doctors advice)

Suffered severe and protracted withdrawl ever since.

No other medication taken.

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Vinpocetine starts working within 30 minutes and the effect lasts about 10 hours. I noticed this from the first time taking it.

It helps me with the following symptoms:

 

Drowsiness throughout the day, increased when foods high in carbohydrates or high in tryptophan, the precursor of serotonin (cheese,milk,lentils,pumpkin seeds, etc) and 5-HTP are consumed and when it gets dark

Vivid and/or strange and nightmarish dreams

Inability to think clearly

Numbness of emotions and mood

Inhibition of imagination and memory recall

Loss of judgement

Come-and-go appetite

Inability to get up very early

Loss of compassion

The spaced out feeling that one is sliding throughout the day and cannot concentrate at a particular and important moment with full consciousness

Headaches

 

etc...

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Sounds like its worth a try. Thank you.

Started Seroxat(Paxil) for panic attacks in 1997 stopped the drug in 2005 tapered over 3 months ( doctors advice)

Suffered severe and protracted withdrawl ever since.

No other medication taken.

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curfex, this is very interesting. How long have you been taking 2.5mg three times a day? May I suggest the reason vinpocetine helped you is not because it balances serotonin.

 

It is true that SSRI use depopulates serotonin receptors, but once the SSRI is withdrawn, the general "level" of serotonin in the brain doesn't change. The problem is downregulated receptors cannot sense it and measure it.

 

If they were working normally, they would pass correct data on to the rest of the CNS and the hundreds of hormones that run the body, and everything would regulate accordingly. It's a problem of improper regulation across dozens of neurohormones rather than too much or too little serotonin.

 

The action of vinpocetine ("selectively inhibit voltage-sensitive Na+ channels") sounds like an anti-epileptic (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16621162)and, like lamotrigine, lowers sensitivity to signaling.

 

References at http://www.mskcc.org/cancer-care/herb/vinpocetineAlso see http://www.drugs.com/npp/vinpocetine.html

 

squirrel, dizziness and lightheadedness are side effects, see http://www.raysahelian.com/vinpocetine.htmlI'm going to check further into this.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I am only wondering what kind of dangers there would be to taking this, if your body cannot metabolize or handle it properly. Can you get an adverse reaction like to SSRIs and possibly be much much worse off? Or is it benign in the way that the actions of the drug will stop as soon as you stop taking it?

 

I am deathly afraid of any sort of psychoactive substance, so there is no possible way I will try this, unless I am 100% clear on the possibly negative reactions.

 

Thanks for sharing though, very interesting.

Suffered a severe adverse reaction to the tricyclic drug Nortriptyline in October 2008, which completely wrecked my brain and my nervous system. I am currently in my 38th month of recovery, with many symptoms still present, and with no improvement in quality of life, which is still nonexistant. The damage is so severe, that I fear I've been permanently disabled. I struggle to get outside as often as I can (still only for short periods of time), but I am still very much a vegetable mentally.

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Altostrata, I take it for 1 week till now. However, I used it in the past, but in larger doses (30 mg/day) for its nootropic effects and stopped it because of a bad accident caused by the interaction between it and yohimbine.

 

Jackson, vinpocetine effects are related to reserpine (an antipsychotic and antihypertensive drug which can cause depression itself in some cases by depleting some of monoamines in the brain, like serotonin, dopamine and noradrenaline, which may take 3-4 weeks to return to normal state after cessation) but are less pronounced and are not the main effects contributing to the antihypertensive and nootropic effects of vinpocetine.

In my opinion this negative effect of vinpocetine will appear only in higher doses. On the other hand it has a relatively short half-live – 2.54 +/- 0.48 hours besides Wikipedia, and reserpine – 33h. When I take the evening dose the effect is 80% disappeared when morning comes. The other thing is that the usual dose of vinpocetine for high blood pressure is 15-30mg/day and I take only 7.5mg/day.

 

However, theoretically vinpocetine can cause some sort of depression, but besides my research because of the SSRI withdrawal the levels and the activity of serotonin are high, only the levels of dopamine and noradrenaline will suffer from vinpocetine effect of depletion (which is also an antipsychotic one, thus contributing to reduction of anxiety and malaise conditions), which can be reversed by taking tyrosine/phenylalanine supplements, or eating foods rich of them (cheese, nuts, meat, fish), or exercises.

There is also another point to consider – that one can take vinpocetine not every day but when the negative effects of the SSRI withdrawal become insupportable, i. e. from time to time.

 

I shared my “discovery” of vinpocetine as an aid in SSRI abrupt withdrawal symptoms because it was the only one thing that relieved me to the point that I can function almost normally and can do my work, because without it I feel very sedated and drowsy throughout the day and I cannot do anything essential (God bless, that I am in vacation now).

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I have found one very interesting site about vinpocetine. http://www.covex.com/newsletter/Abr/About.htm (Vinpocetine - cerebral enhancer and neuroprotector)

 

I am starting to think that the easing effects of Vinpocetine on SSRI withdrawal are due to all the effects that it exerts over the brain thus helping it to restore its altered structure and functions.

 

From the link above I have extracted some of them. Vinpocetine does:

 

Enhances oxygen and glucose uptake by from blood by brain neurons

Increases neuronal ATP (the main energy source of the body) bio-energy production

Restores brain carbohydrate energy metabolism

Increases potently cerebral metabolism

Is an unique, selective cerebral vasodilator

Strongly reduces cerebral resistance

Increases cerebral fraction of cardiac output

Inhibits platelet aggregation (anti-platelet aggregation blood thinner)

Executes an activating effect on the noradrenaline nerve cluster in the locus coeruleus (the thinking, planning and integrative brain part)

Improves vigilance

 

And some info on the side effects:

 

And yet human and animal studies consistently show a remarkable safety profile and freedom from side effects. Thus, in a study on Vinpocetine’s ability to improve sensorineural hearing disorders, Ribari and colleagues note that “The drug [Vinpocetine] has no side effects.”

 

In a highly successful double-blind placebo study of Vinpocetine with 84 elderly patients suffering from chronic vascular senile brain dysfunction, Balestreri et al, found only 12 adverse effect reports in the Vinpocetine group (mostly digestive complaints) versus 17 in the placebo group!

 

No significant adverse laboratory findings were found in either group (15). A major Japanese study by Otomo and colleagues with 207 patients suffering various cerebral disorders found only a 2% incidence of mild adverse side effects- anorexia in 2 patients, hives and stomach pain in 1 and hot flashes in 1. No significant adverse laboratory findings occurred in the 207 Vinpocetine patients (16).

 

In their summary of various animal safety tests, Cholnoky and Domok found the oral LD50 for Vinpocetine (the dose lethal for 50% of the test animals) to be 534mg/ Kg of bodyweight for mice, 503 mg/Kg of bodyweight for rats.

 

This would equate to approximately 35,000mg for a 150 pound human. The usual therapeutic dose for Vinpocetine for humans is 15-30mg per day!

Because of side effects at high doses when used with pregnant rats (uterine bleeding in some), Cholnoky and Domok caution against using Vinpocetine in pregnant women, or those trying or expecting to get pregnant (17).

 

Overall, Vinpocetine side effects reported in the literature are rare, usually minor, frequently disappear with prolonged use, and rarely require discontinuance of the drug.

 

Stomach/ GI upset; dry mouth, rapid heart beat, low blood pressure, and rash/ hives are the main (rarely occurring) reported side effects.

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Who might benefit from Vinpocetine?

 

1. Anyone over 40, cerebral arteriosclerosis is less well known to the public than heart disease, but it is just as common, and develops gradually over a lifetime. By the time serious symptoms develop, as with heart disease, the blood vessel occlusion is usually well advanced. Vinpocetine can minimize the structural/ functional damage to brain neurons that may accompany gradually developing cerebral arteriosclerosis.

 

2. Anyone who has noticed a decrease in memory, alertness, concentration, learning speed/ ability, neuro-muscular co-ordination and reaction time, vision, hearing, or who suffers from tinnitus.

 

3. Anyone who suffers from, or is known to be at risk for, various cerebral disorders- cerebral hemorrhage, stroke, senile dementia, transient ischaemic attacks, chronic cerebral circulatory insufficiency, etc.

 

4. Anyone wishing to use a generally very safe, low side effect, brain metabolism enhancing, vigilance enhancing, cognition activating “smart drug.”

 

While Vinpocetine may need to be used for weeks or months before seeing major improvement in medical situations, the cognitive enhancement benefits may be noticeable from even a single dose, or within the first several days’ use. Improvements in cerebral disorders and in hearing and vision problems may last only as long as the drug continues to be taken.

 

Because Vinpocetine enhances cerebral blood flow, it may potentate other nootropic/ cerebro-active drugs taken simultaneously, thus allowing/ requiring then to be taken in lower doses.

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I talked to a knowledgeable doctor today. We briefly discussed vinpocetine.

 

He said it was a drug affecting multiple systems, like most adaptogenics. For people whose systems are sensitized by withdrawal, results would be unpredictable.

 

It does, as you found, lower serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine as well as who knows what else. Not all of its effects are known. That is why it tends to cause depression and lethargy.

 

It is chemically related to immunosuppressive drugs and can cause agranulocytosis or failure of the immune system, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agranulocytosis

 

There are case reports of vinpocetine doing this. It is a very, very serious adverse effect.

 

He said vinpocetine-caused agranulocytosis is not dosage-related.

 

I'm glad it helped you, curfex, but I would not take it for very long.

 

People who have experienced antidepressant withdrawal symptoms often have hypersensitive nervous systems. Remedies that might be well-tolerated in, for example, Russian athletes, may have adverse effects for people who are sensitive.

 

If you want to experiment with remedies, please be very, very careful with them.

 

I suggest again, you did not "balance" your neurotransmitters with vinpocetine -- there is no such thing as "balancing" neurotransmitters -- but benefited from its anti-epileptic and generally suppressive properties.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I'm very thankful for the shared information Altostrata. I will take it in consideration.

I'm planning to use the Vinpocetine medication until any unbearable side effect occur or until I consider that I don't need it anymore.

 

I will give some feedback soon about how the things are going on with the therapy.

 

Best regards,

Peter

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  • 2 years later...

I am in very very bad shape. Over 18months out and there is no question I have am suffering from SSRI induced brain damage. I have severe cognitive defects, dizziness, major fatigue even walking is tough some times, anhedonia, pssd, Major sick feeling that I just cannot describe, Feel stoned. I am in very bad shape and am contemplating whether life is really worth living in this state. I don't like my chances of a full recovery since there are practically none that I have seen with folks who are this ill this far out.

 

I am realy considering taking Cerebrolysin. It's a promising drug that is being used to treat AD, TBI, Stroke and vascular dementia. It's not a chemical drug but rather a protein which is obtained from pigs brains. It has some impressive studies behind it and ones that apply to folks suffering from ssri wd.

 

 

The drug is thought to protect existing neurons and aid in nuerogenesis. The actual creation of new brain cells.

To me I am at a point where I am going to accept that i am potentially damaged for life (worse case) or that I have years of recovery (best case). I have a family to take care of so I am planning on taking the gamble.

I am wondering has anyone here ever taken this drug? Alto what are your thoughts on this? I think to beat the serious damage done by SSRI WD you need to bring out the big guns and Cerebrolysin is deffintley a big gun.

 

 

One last thing for a drug this powerful the side effect profile is extremely positive. Very well tolerated and there appear to be no serious rikss with this medication.

 

I am planning on starting Cerebro and will let you guys know how I make out on this thread.

 

 

 

It was shown to be beneficial in treating Tardive Dyskenesia another from of drug induced brain damage from Anti Phycotics

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11517474

 

 

It has been shown to be effective in alcohol Withdrawal. Anohter form of drug induced brain damage

http://www.everpharma.asia/a-en/cerebrolysin-6-26.html

 

 

 

Effecitive in Drug addict withdrawal

 

Clinical Picture and Treatment of
Psycho-organic Syndrome in Drug Addicts
Alexander A. Kozlov, Maya L. Rokhlina,
Lilia A. Tchistyakova and Irina D. Dvorina
Summary
Objective: To study the clinical picture and treatment of psycho-organic syndromes
in drug addicts. Subjects and methods: 100 patients addicted to various
drugs. Cerebrolysin was administered by intramuscular injection in 5 ml doses
twice per day to 49 patients on the 14-20th day after the most recent drug use.
Results: The clinical picture may be defi ned as “organic decline of the personality
with desocialization”, or as a specifi c psycho-organic syndrome induced by
drug consumption. We therefore considered the administration of the peptidergic
substance Cerebrolysin potentially useful. Conclusion: Administration of
cerebrolysin improves attention and concentration functions, makes intellectual
processes more active, and promotes stable, positive emotions.

 

 

 

Cognitive decline due to diabeties

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23840309

Paxil 10mg 2004-2011

7.5mg 4months

5mg. 4months

2.5mg.8 months no wd issues

Dropped pax 4-10-12

5-9-12 started prozac to alleviate symptoms (no relief)

5-22-12 reinstated paxil 2.5mg

5-28-12 5mg pax (couldn't tolerate sides)

6-22-12 Pax 2.5

6-30-12 Pax O

Cerebrolysin to help with wd at 29 months. Horrible decision much worse.

Still suffering sever Brain fog, Confusion, slow thinking,And just feeling sick and weird (hard to explain),facial twitching, weakness, shaking and jerking

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None of these nootropic drugs seem to help withdrawal syndrome. Experiment at your own risk.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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None of these nootropic drugs seem to help withdrawal syndrome. Experiment at your own risk.

 

I wouldn't put this drug in the same class as any nootropic. When you say nootropic drugs people think of Piracetam or Paracetam which are over the counter in most places. This is a drug which could be the standard treatment in vascual dementia, TBI and AZ disease. It has also shown to help TD which is drug damage casued by Antisphycotics.  Obviously the risks are there but ALto I am sure you and others on this site know very well that some people (myself included) are very very ill. Some have commited suicide becuase of this. I have to take that risk as the life I have now is not worth living. I also don't see much of a bright future. If everyone recovered one day then I could sit back and count the days but we all know (at least on this site we do) that many folks are left with long term damage.

 

I will be taking this drug and I will update all of you once I do. I'm not ordering thsi from the internet however so obtaining a legitimate version will take sometime.

Please wish me luck. If not for me at least for my children.

 

FJ

Paxil 10mg 2004-2011

7.5mg 4months

5mg. 4months

2.5mg.8 months no wd issues

Dropped pax 4-10-12

5-9-12 started prozac to alleviate symptoms (no relief)

5-22-12 reinstated paxil 2.5mg

5-28-12 5mg pax (couldn't tolerate sides)

6-22-12 Pax 2.5

6-30-12 Pax O

Cerebrolysin to help with wd at 29 months. Horrible decision much worse.

Still suffering sever Brain fog, Confusion, slow thinking,And just feeling sick and weird (hard to explain),facial twitching, weakness, shaking and jerking

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Please let us know how you do.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I know lots of people with similar symptoms at 18 months who recovered, including myself. At 18 months I had still seen essentially no improvement. Things are infinitely better now, it's almost difficult to compare. Hang in there.

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Yes, I have to agree with nn123, I've seen quite a few people who were pretty bad off 18 months out who later improved considerably. I would say 18 months is still too early to assume you're not going to improve. After 6 years with no improvement, maybe. But I've seen a lot of people in prolonged withdrawal who were pretty bad off at 18 months yet recovered later. It's not that unusual.

 

However, I'm not trying to discourage you or encourage you as regards taking the drug, I know absolutely nothing about it. Do keep us posted, if you don't mind.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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I know lots of people with similar symptoms at 18 months who recovered, including myself. At 18 months I had still seen essentially no improvement. Things are infinitely better now, it's almost difficult to compare. Hang in there.

 

Ditto!!

 

I am exactly 18 months off the nasty Effexor;better, but still pretty much in the woods and struggling.

Very encouraging post nn123.

Thank you!

 

Hugs,A.

4 years aprox. on 150mgs.Effexor for situational major depression.No AD before.
Tapered 150-0mgs in 3 months.

Tapered Quetiapine,Xanax in the last 18 months.NO med of any kind anymore.
First 3 months off acute w/d
Protracted w/d ever since.
Symptoms:Anxiety,anhedonia,insomnia,tinnitus,PSSD

04/13/2014 Awful Relapse.Recovered fairly fast.

3 years and 4 months off.

waves and windows.Very much recovered.

November 2015,health issue.Setback.
 

 

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I know lots of people with similar symptoms at 18 months who recovered, including myself. At 18 months I had still seen essentially no improvement. Things are infinitely better now, it's almost difficult to compare. Hang in there.

 

I was in an extremely bad shape at the 18 months mark, in fact it was one of the worst waves and I was about to start some drug (my GP had prescribed my Lexapro) because I felt absolutely no recovery and was almost unable to function.

 

A first real window opened at about 20 months, totally uncomparable with the horrific period before. Though nasty waves were still ahead, after this window I choose to hang on and not touch any drugs. Bad waves were yet to come but there is recovery and no 6 years out I feel pretty close to recovered, except for some still nasty residual symptoms which I expect to clear up in the longer run,.

 

I am curious whether this protein will bring any relief.

10 mg Paxil/Seroxat since 2002
several attempts to quit since 2004
Quit c/t again Oktober 2007, in protracted w/d since then
after 3.5 years slight improvement but still on the road

after 6 years pretty much recovered but still some nasty residual sypmtons
after 8.5 years working again on a 90% base and basically functioning normally again!

 

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Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I just don't know what to do my suffering is so great and I read of so many who are still having issues 6 or 7 years later that it terrifies me. I have seen very little improvemet and my disorientation is so severe (moments where I do not know where I am) that I fear that I will not recover fully. This peptide has promise and no one has ever tried it before. It encourages neurogenesis and has protective effect on synaptic transmission. It could be a godsend that helps healing. Or it could end up finishing me off.

So risky.

 

thanks everyone.

Paxil 10mg 2004-2011

7.5mg 4months

5mg. 4months

2.5mg.8 months no wd issues

Dropped pax 4-10-12

5-9-12 started prozac to alleviate symptoms (no relief)

5-22-12 reinstated paxil 2.5mg

5-28-12 5mg pax (couldn't tolerate sides)

6-22-12 Pax 2.5

6-30-12 Pax O

Cerebrolysin to help with wd at 29 months. Horrible decision much worse.

Still suffering sever Brain fog, Confusion, slow thinking,And just feeling sick and weird (hard to explain),facial twitching, weakness, shaking and jerking

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  • 2 weeks later...

I am in very very bad shape. Over 18months out and there is no question I have am suffering from SSRI induced brain damage. I have severe cognitive defects, dizziness, major fatigue even walking is tough some times, anhedonia, pssd, Major sick feeling that I just cannot describe, Feel stoned. I am in very bad shape and am contemplating whether life is really worth living in this state. I don't like my chances of a full recovery since there are practically none that I have seen with folks who are this ill this far out.

 

My first thought is this: how do you know that your symptoms--cognitive defects, dizziness, fatigue, sick feeling, etc is caused by SSRI-induced brain damage instead of:

 

1. Another medical condition

2. Withdrawal (I realize its been 18 months, but can WD symptoms last 18 months? I dont know)

3. Depression itself

4. The condition/circumstances that caused your depression in the first place

5. A medication

6. A neutraceutical

7. Toxins

 

Personally I am inclined to believe that SSRIs probably cause brain damage but the truth is you just don't know unless you've ruled out some of these other things. Also, is there a way to scan / test for brain damage? Have you done that?

Fluoxetine 10mg every other day for 2 years. No other medications.

 

I'm on this forum to find out if there is any scientific evidence that long-term use of fluoxetine or any other antidepressant can cause brain damage.

 

Emailed Dr. Breggin's office January 2014 for scientific evidence that his statement that antidepressants cause brain damage is true. Waiting for a response.

 

 

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I am in very very bad shape. Over 18months out and there is no question I have am suffering from SSRI induced brain damage. I have severe cognitive defects, dizziness, major fatigue even walking is tough some times, anhedonia, pssd, Major sick feeling that I just cannot describe, Feel stoned. I am in very bad shape and am contemplating whether life is really worth living in this state. I don't like my chances of a full recovery since there are practically none that I have seen with folks who are this ill this far out.

 

My first thought is this: how do you know that your symptoms--cognitive defects, dizziness, fatigue, sick feeling, etc is caused by SSRI-induced brain damage instead of:

 

1. Another medical condition

2. Withdrawal (I realize its been 18 months, but can WD symptoms last 18 months? I dont know)

3. Depression itself

4. The condition/circumstances that caused your depression in the first place

5. A medication

6. A neutraceutical

7. Toxins

 

Personally I am inclined to believe that SSRIs probably cause brain damage but the truth is you just don't know unless you've ruled out some of these other things. Also, is there a way to scan / test for brain damage? Have you done that?

 

 

 

I abslolutley do know, no question whatsoever about it. I developed Akathisia , insomnia (no history of it), severe depresssion (no history of it) severe confusion, disoriention memory loss and fatigue so profound I could barely move all within weeks of stopping a mere 2.5mg of paxil.

 

Akathisia is only caused by either taking a phyciatric drug or discontinuing one. It is not caused by depression or is something that is natural in nature. I had it so bad that I had to continue walking all day long and could not stop. So there is no other explanation for it at all. All medical tests that my docotor insisted on showed nothing. I saw a NueroPhyc and had a cognitive test done which showed that my memory and concentrationw was at 50% of a average person my age. He also stated that my failures on my test  it did not match the cognitive pattern seen in CFS, FIbromalgia, Lyme or Depression.

 

Many many patients some on this site and some on others are still suffering years and years later. For a small percentage of folks there seems to be an inability for the brain to recover after cessation of the drug. If you read peoples stories on here MRI, EEG and others show nothing. THe only brain scan that shows some damage is a Spect scan which all folks i know who have had one show the same abnormality   "Reduced cerebral blood flow". Interestingly serotonin has been implicated in the regulation of cerebral blood flow.

 

I know exaclty what made me ill. You don't get this violently ill a mere week after stopping paxil and suffer from Akathisia and other horrendous symptoms.

I wish I was suffering from depression that would be a dream come true. Then I could be treated.

Paxil 10mg 2004-2011

7.5mg 4months

5mg. 4months

2.5mg.8 months no wd issues

Dropped pax 4-10-12

5-9-12 started prozac to alleviate symptoms (no relief)

5-22-12 reinstated paxil 2.5mg

5-28-12 5mg pax (couldn't tolerate sides)

6-22-12 Pax 2.5

6-30-12 Pax O

Cerebrolysin to help with wd at 29 months. Horrible decision much worse.

Still suffering sever Brain fog, Confusion, slow thinking,And just feeling sick and weird (hard to explain),facial twitching, weakness, shaking and jerking

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fj929 - Are you still planning on trying the Cerebroslyn?

I am very intereted in it as well for the same reason as you. Long term damage from Paxil withdrwawal. The only thing that has stopped me so far is that I have NFI about IM injections.

Please let me know where you are up to with this.

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Thanks for the encouragement everyone. I just don't know what to do my suffering is so great and I read of so many who are still having issues 6 or 7 years later that it terrifies me. I have seen very little improvemet and my disorientation is so severe (moments where I do not know where I am) that I fear that I will not recover fully. This peptide has promise and no one has ever tried it before. It encourages neurogenesis and has protective effect on synaptic transmission. It could be a godsend that helps healing. Or it could end up finishing me off.

So risky.

 

thanks everyone.

 

I am curious as to how you are.  I have not read the studies on the drug but do have a suggestion to make if you are computer literate that is. 

I would be more concerned with who did the study of this drug than what the reported side effects are. I don't know how to find out but I know other people have found out about drug studies who did them who paid ect it can be found I just don't know how.  

If you started it already please let me know if it worked ... or if you still think it might.  How do you deal with the doctor to get the drug?  I have a feeling a lot of doctors will balk at this as it is not as common as getting an Ad I know if I wanted to I could go to any clinic and get an antidepressant today but other drugs may not be so easy.  Please update I am very curious. 

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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You have zero chance of a doctor getting this drug for you as it is not approved in the US. I am going the international route and having someone send me some from a country where it does not require a prescription. It is approved in 44 countries.

 

I will deffintley keep everyone posted. I am convinced that during WD or during an Adverse reaction that there is some damage done to the brain. They Hypersensitive state many of us are in really seems like excitoxcicity to me.

 

 

http://wiseyoung.wordpress.com/2009/02/10/271/

Paxil 10mg 2004-2011

7.5mg 4months

5mg. 4months

2.5mg.8 months no wd issues

Dropped pax 4-10-12

5-9-12 started prozac to alleviate symptoms (no relief)

5-22-12 reinstated paxil 2.5mg

5-28-12 5mg pax (couldn't tolerate sides)

6-22-12 Pax 2.5

6-30-12 Pax O

Cerebrolysin to help with wd at 29 months. Horrible decision much worse.

Still suffering sever Brain fog, Confusion, slow thinking,And just feeling sick and weird (hard to explain),facial twitching, weakness, shaking and jerking

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I was still homebound at 18 months and most of the time was still in bed as well...my illness was still acute...

 

today 4 years out I'm getting better all the time...it's still slow going but improvement is undeniable and unrelenting as well...even if still up and down and nonlinear 

 

18 months is early in protracted cases...and it certainly doesn't mean you won't get well

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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You have zero chance of a doctor getting this drug for you as it is not approved in the US. I am going the international route and having someone send me some from a country where it does not require a prescription. It is approved in 44 countries.

 

I will deffintley keep everyone posted. I am convinced that during WD or during an Adverse reaction that there is some damage done to the brain. They Hypersensitive state many of us are in really seems like excitoxcicity to me.

 

 

http://wiseyoung.wordpress.com/2009/02/10/271/

In my gut I think your right there is some damage done.  That is not saying this drug will fix it and at 18 months I had a window then took a nose dive. If you are going to do this my only suggestion is to start very very very low.....and wait. If you can find somebody with medical knowledge to keep an eye on things even blood work that would be a good idea. 

I have tried so many thing I hoped would work in the beginning all the drugs the neurologist suggested then vitamins supplements ect... I am just doubtful or maybe just wore out from the process. Hard to say which. Good luck whatever you do.

WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG
Had a car accident in 85
Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89
Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year
Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above.
One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking.

As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/

There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was still homebound at 18 months and most of the time was still in bed as well...my illness was still acute...

 

today 4 years out I'm getting better all the time...it's still slow going but improvement is undeniable and unrelenting as well...even if still up and down and nonlinear 

 

18 months is early in protracted cases...and it certainly doesn't mean you won't get well

 

 

 

 

4 years and your still sick. I don't want to live like this anymore. I need to heal. Sometimes you need to take a chance in life and I am taking mine.

Paxil 10mg 2004-2011

7.5mg 4months

5mg. 4months

2.5mg.8 months no wd issues

Dropped pax 4-10-12

5-9-12 started prozac to alleviate symptoms (no relief)

5-22-12 reinstated paxil 2.5mg

5-28-12 5mg pax (couldn't tolerate sides)

6-22-12 Pax 2.5

6-30-12 Pax O

Cerebrolysin to help with wd at 29 months. Horrible decision much worse.

Still suffering sever Brain fog, Confusion, slow thinking,And just feeling sick and weird (hard to explain),facial twitching, weakness, shaking and jerking

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good luck. I hope you get what you want.

 

I'm happy to be healing...life is happening and it's wondrous! I'm glad I can appreciate being alive. That in the end is all that matters. 

Everything Matters: Beyond Meds 

https://beyondmeds.com/

withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
 

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Thanks Gia. Can you tell me how long it took before you started feeling better? How recovered would you say you are now?

Paxil 10mg 2004-2011

7.5mg 4months

5mg. 4months

2.5mg.8 months no wd issues

Dropped pax 4-10-12

5-9-12 started prozac to alleviate symptoms (no relief)

5-22-12 reinstated paxil 2.5mg

5-28-12 5mg pax (couldn't tolerate sides)

6-22-12 Pax 2.5

6-30-12 Pax O

Cerebrolysin to help with wd at 29 months. Horrible decision much worse.

Still suffering sever Brain fog, Confusion, slow thinking,And just feeling sick and weird (hard to explain),facial twitching, weakness, shaking and jerking

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  • 9 months later...

Did you tried this stuff afterall? I am thinking about it too....

1st short round: from 2012 april ~ july 

Sertraline 50mg with 1mg Larazepam fast wd few problems

 

2013 may - 2014 january:  75mg Effexor XR +  1mg Rivotril + 10mg Ambien(zolpidem)

2014 january ~ june :        150mg Effexor XR +  2mg Rivotril    cold turkeyed both almost at the same time (crazy wd of course)

 

two days after cold turkey of Effexor I started 10mg of Lexapro for around a month then did a fast taper (for some days took little Ambien to combat wd)

 

Reinstated to 1mg of Klonopin on 2015.04.23  took the 1mg total for 10 days.  I did in three divided doses 0.25 morning + 0.25 afternoon + 0.5 before sleep.  

Now: 1 mgs total K, divided into .75 night .25 day

 

Started taking 3mg Lamictal on 05.07...... Slowly tiltrated up to 6mg....

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Yes I did. I ended up obtaining a prescription and ordering it from a legitimate international pharmacy. I took it in November of this year. The results were profound. My heavy brain fog and dizziness cleared significantly (it's the only thing i have tried that has ever done this) much more so than on a good day. I felt very good but also got severe nausea from the drug. The Nausea was debilitating and prevented me from even functioning. The good results of the drug would yo\yo with foggy headed disorientation. I tend to suffer from disoreination so I can't say the drug made it worse but the back and forth was strange.

 

I only did one injection and only did 2.5ml as opposed to 5. The good effects started a few hours later and the nausea about 5 hours after that. Both good effects and nausea lasted 4 days with the worse nausea being in day 3. These were not placebo effects the drug deffintley did something.

 

I am planning on trying it again at some point in the future but at an even lower dose. For this drug to ever be successful someone would have to be on it for at least 4weeks to allow the BDNF to jumpstart neurogenesis and hopefully repair any damage caused. That is the theory anyway.

Paxil 10mg 2004-2011

7.5mg 4months

5mg. 4months

2.5mg.8 months no wd issues

Dropped pax 4-10-12

5-9-12 started prozac to alleviate symptoms (no relief)

5-22-12 reinstated paxil 2.5mg

5-28-12 5mg pax (couldn't tolerate sides)

6-22-12 Pax 2.5

6-30-12 Pax O

Cerebrolysin to help with wd at 29 months. Horrible decision much worse.

Still suffering sever Brain fog, Confusion, slow thinking,And just feeling sick and weird (hard to explain),facial twitching, weakness, shaking and jerking

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Interesting. Perhaps a very, very tiny dose, less than 1mg, would be helpful but not cause the adverse effects.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Interesting. Perhaps a very, very tiny dose, less than 1mg, would be helpful but not cause the adverse effects.

That is what I was thinking as well.

Paxil 10mg 2004-2011

7.5mg 4months

5mg. 4months

2.5mg.8 months no wd issues

Dropped pax 4-10-12

5-9-12 started prozac to alleviate symptoms (no relief)

5-22-12 reinstated paxil 2.5mg

5-28-12 5mg pax (couldn't tolerate sides)

6-22-12 Pax 2.5

6-30-12 Pax O

Cerebrolysin to help with wd at 29 months. Horrible decision much worse.

Still suffering sever Brain fog, Confusion, slow thinking,And just feeling sick and weird (hard to explain),facial twitching, weakness, shaking and jerking

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  • 4 weeks later...

I just want to add to the update this. The drug had a profound effect on me that continuesarrow-10x10.png to this day. It triggered a violent wave after i took it. I got very ill for about 4 days and then those symptoms passed but I haven't felt quite right since taking it and at times I get violently ill with much stronger symtpoms than I was feeling before. Much sicker than i ever was before. When I feel better I notice the profound effects of the drug especially with my head feeling almost crystal clear. Dizzinessarrow-10x10.png subsides etc. Overall I feel much much better in regards to my head although fatigue and nausea are worse.

What do I make of this?????

 
 
 

Paxil 10mg 2004-2011

7.5mg 4months

5mg. 4months

2.5mg.8 months no wd issues

Dropped pax 4-10-12

5-9-12 started prozac to alleviate symptoms (no relief)

5-22-12 reinstated paxil 2.5mg

5-28-12 5mg pax (couldn't tolerate sides)

6-22-12 Pax 2.5

6-30-12 Pax O

Cerebrolysin to help with wd at 29 months. Horrible decision much worse.

Still suffering sever Brain fog, Confusion, slow thinking,And just feeling sick and weird (hard to explain),facial twitching, weakness, shaking and jerking

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http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7040-lithium-in-small-amounts/

 

I don't mean this at all as advice, but that just seems so scary. We're now eight years after the fact, but I still think lithium pulled me out of withdrawal in 2006 after a Near CT off Cymbalta. The last link on the thread I linked above talks about its effect on BDNF. Again, this is not advice.

1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms.

Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12

Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13

Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15

11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble)

9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol

7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol

56 years old

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