Lojo016: 4 months off meds

[Lojo016]

Hi all, I am new to this forum. I want to share my experience with you guys. This is my second time trying to come off of these two medications. I want to succeed in staying off them this time. 

 

I have been off meds for four months so far. 

 

A bit of a history of my medication use. I have been on seroquel and lexparo for a total of six years. In 2014 I tried to come off of those 2 meds and did it way too fast. I was on Seroquel 600mg and the physical withdrawals got so bad that I ended up in the emergency room. At that point however I did not go back on any meds and stuck through the physical withdrawals until they went away. A few months after that I went through the emotional, clinical, and psychological post withdrawals that got so bad that after 5 months I went back on medications and ultimately to the same meds I was on before. I have been on those meds since this past year. So I was on seroquel 400mg and lexapro 10mg until this past year. I knew that I had done it too fast and too quickly the first time and I was not under any medical supervision as I had stopped seeing that doctor.

 

I wanted to give going of medications a second attempt this time and with determination and willpower to not go back on them again. With my luck however this past April my psychiatrist told me she was moving to a different state and will be replaced. So I asked her how to wean myself off of the meds before she left and she did not agree with it but told me how. Btw after she left I just followed her instructions and did not see the people that were covering for her because i did not feel the need to since I was no longer taking any medication, they never replaced her and just had people filling in and when they did find a nurse practitioner, I was told that she has quit. 

 

But back to what my doctor said. She told me to go down from 400mg of seroquel by 50 mg every month, that was her recommendation for the slow taper. This was back in April and it would take me 8 months if I did it that way before I would be off so I did not do that and instead went down 100mg every month. She told me that that was not the safest way to do it but she could not stop me. Now that I look back I probably should have done it by 50 mg each month even if it would have took 8 months, and maybe I would not have as many problems right now. So I began the weaning process in April and by July I was off both seroquel and lexapro, seorquel 400mg and lexapro 10 mg. For the Lexapro I went from 10mg to 5mg for two months, then to 2.5mg for a few weeks, by 3 months I was off of it as well. The physical withdrawals did not last that long and I got through it. But two months in I was getting the clinical, emotional and psychological symptoms back. The very ones they were meant to treat, and each month it is getting worse and worse. I do have to mention that before I ever started any medications, the only thing I was ever diagnosed with was depression and social anxiety. I was put on an SSRI and it made me very agitated and off the walls, kind of like hypomania with anger and impulsiveness, thinking and acting reckless. Once again I was never like this before meds. So what did they do? They added seroquel to counteract those side affects of the SSRI and I stayed on that combination ever since, going as high as 600mg of seroquel at one time and these past 3 years on 400mg of seroquel. 

 

The post withdrawal affects I have been dealing with now four months off the meds has been has follows. It started as paranoia, slightly delusional, lots of anxiety and worry and nervous, can't calm down. Then came the depression, debilitating depression, it can be brutal, then came the severe ruminations and obsessions, I repeat the same stuff in my head over and over again like a broken record with anxiety, doubt, unsure jumping back and forth between thoughts, it is very time consuming and makes me feel like I am losing it. And then came the mood swings, lots of agitation and irritability, anxiety, angry thoughts, hostility, everything pisses me off, don't like myself or anyone else, thinking irrational and delusional, depressed but with lots of energy, suicidal ideations, there are moments when I feel ok or normal and am able to laugh but those don't last. And now recently when I feel totally out of it, kind of like derealization and depersonalization, where I feel disconnected from myself, everyone else, and everything around me. I don't feel anything, loss of pleasure and emotions. And it is really scaring me. I never know how I am going to be feeling on any day, it is so unpredictable and it seems to be changing and getting worse and worse. I am still going through all the symptoms I mentioned before, and they keep adding on to different or new ones but I never know how I am going to be feeling at any given moment or day, it is very unpredictable.  Lately my head has been hurting and I feel I am going into cognitive decline, like I am slowly starting to lose my mind, where I can barely function. Also, I am having a lot of restless movements of my hands, feet, and legs all the time. I am having more sexual dysfunction now than when I was on meds. I feel extreme panic, worry, and desperation, severe anxiety, where I feel like I am drowning or can't breathe, and moments of intense grief and sorrow. This is an everyday thing for me, it shows no mercy and I am getting tired of it all, it seems never ending, don't know what to do but I need help. 

 

The current state that I am in is that I find it very hard to be around people, all my symptoms exacerbate around people making me feel ten times severely worse. So I don't leave the house much these days, only if I can and it is not for long. Even in the house, I am mostly in my room, being in the kitchen, or bathroom or living room makes me feel unwell, being in my room does not make me feel happy or content but it makes me feel better than being anywhere else. 

 

I know that this is all in part because of I have been off the meds four months now and that is why I am going through all this that is getting worse and worse. I ask myself if I give it more time being like this will I eventually get better? Will my brain go back to normal with time without having to go back on any medications, especially the ones I was taking? or do I need to go back on some type of medications right now to get me through this, whether they are the same ones or different ones? I wonder if I need to be hospitalized which would mean I would have to go back on meds, or if I should just go back on meds right away. I am not sure what to do at this point. My goal is to not go back on any medications and give it as much time as possible while doing things to occupy my mind and body and avoid anything that will trigger me, stress me out, or give my anxiety, which at this point it is just about anything. Another option I thought about was going back on the meds at a very low dose and than weaning off of them again at the slowest pace possible, this would be just to get me through this right now and stabilize me. Since I think 3 months weaning process was too fast considering that I was on them 6 years in total at fairly mid dose ranges. I can either wait it out longer and I wonder if i will get better or worse or stay the same, or if any emergency happens, like having serious thoughts about hurting myself or some type of episode, that I would either have to be hospitalized and go back on meds to save my life.

 

I do take vitamins and supplements right now and I would like to think they are helping but I am really not sure. I am also exercising and watching what I eat and drink, and am getting good sleep thankfully. 

 

Can anyone relate to this at all? Have any opinions, suggestions, or advice?

 

Thank you. 
 

[ChessieCat]

Hi Lojo and welcome to SA,

 

Thank you for creating a drug signature.  It will be helpful if you would include the tapering dates and doses so we can see them at a glance and not have to read through your post to find the information.  This is the preferred format for a signature:

 

A request: Would you summarize your history in a signature - ALL drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements, in the last 12-24 months particularly?

• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses.
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 

• Any drugs prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years.
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago)
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016.
• Link to Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

 

Brain Remodelling

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

We encourage members to visit the topics of other members.  This is your own Introduction topic where you can ask questions and journal your progress.

[Lojo016]

Has anyone else gone through this? If so, how did you get through it? Any suggestions or advice is greatly appreciated, thanks. 

[ChessieCat]

B vitamins, especially B6, can be activating.  hypersensitive-to-b-vitamin-or-b-vitamin-complex

 

Some members find Magnesium and Omega-3 Fish Oil helpful.  These are the only 2 supplements which SA recommends.

 

Here are some topics from the Symptoms and self-care  area of the site:

Neuro Emotions

 

OCD Obsessive Thoughts, Compulsive Behaviours

 

Fear, terror, panic, and anxiety

Health anxiety, hypochondria, and obsession with symptoms

Irritability, Anger, Rage

[Lojo016]

Is it possible to not have to reinstate and survive these withdrawals? Now that it has been four months off the meds, I really don’t want to go back on them at all, but these WD symptoms are very hard at this point.

[Lojo016]

The psychiatrist today said he never heard of post acute withdrawal syndrome. And that what I am experiencing is a return of the “mental ilness”. He said he knows nothing about vitamins and supplements and says I need medication. 

[powerback]

Lojo016 hi welcome .ile be careful here because your new to the site and I don't want to influence you but I had an experience a year ago I think its worth telling you about .I had a terrible emotional breakdown because of withdrawl and I went to my doctor and all he had for me was Zyprexa and a hospital letter for a phsyc ward ,luckily I was looking  through this site at the time so I told him no way and went on my way .

I wont get into the whole mental illness debate[in my opinion is mostly nonsense ] , we would be here all night but I want to give you an example of someone taking responsibility back from doctors .now we cant just ignore our "issues" and what life throws at us but a label like mental illness is ridiculous in my opinion ,here go take your meds, as that doctor thinks its so simple .

 

this year has been very tough but I never needed them meds or hospital, just loads of rest and time ,I'm still a long way off recovery but I'm empowered by learning everything I can about the body and diet [I'm also 31 months sober ].I've got through some serious episodes this year .all because of the meds and not a mental illness .no doctor can take that experience away from me .

 

be kind and patient to yourself and don't make any decisions about meds without  putting it past the mods ,they know what there saying .

Take care

PB

[Gridley]

Lojo16,

 

Regarding what your psychiatrist said to you, please be aware that very, very few psychiatrists are aware of post acute withdrawal syndrome.  As to it being a return of the "mental illness," that's pretty much what they all say.

 

See the following links which may help you to distinguish if it is withdrawal or relapse:

 

This post and Is it withdrawal or relapse?

 

These links may also be helpful:

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Gridley
added two links

[Lojo016]

Thanks. At this point I am considering reinstate, I don’t know what else to do. Hopefully it will make things better since it has been 4 months of seroquel and lexapro. This late onset of the withdrawals effects are torture. 

[Lojo016]

Are there any specialists or doctors that can help people get through the withdrawal process? I am trying to see what options I have right now besides reinstating, which I might end up having to do anyway. 

 

Thanks. 

[grandmaD]

On 11/21/2017 at 4:21 AM, Lojo016 said:

The psychiatrist today said he never heard of post acute withdrawal syndrome. And that what I am experiencing is a return of the “mental ilness”. He said he knows nothing about vitamins and supplements and says I need medication. 

They don't have a clue really.  I had 6 doctors keep telling me I needed to stay on the a/d for my depression.  NOT ONE of them asked why I was put on it in the first place - and it wasn't for depression, it waS for PAIN!  But I was a dummy and believed them at the time and stayed on it because they said you have to stay on it for LIFE!  I was also told I had a "serotonin deficiency" and since discovered there is no such thing!

[grandmaD]

On 11/22/2017 at 5:33 AM, Lojo016 said:

Thanks. At this point I am considering reinstate, I don’t know what else to do. Hopefully it will make things better since it has been 4 months of seroquel and lexapro. This late onset of the withdrawals effects are torture. 

I tried too many times to count to get off the way they tell you to and always ended up back on a full dose.  I went through the hell you have been talking about each time, but each time I re-instated I was better within days.

 

You have to decide whether you can stand the hell of where you are or whether you want to re-instate.  I re-instated after 6 months at one point and it still worked after that length of time and I didn't regret it.

 

However, what they say now on this site is not to re-instate to the full dose, you may be able to re-instate to something lower, so see what the Mods say about that if that is what you decide to do.

[grandmaD]

On 11/22/2017 at 6:40 AM, Lojo016 said:

Are there any specialists or doctors that can help people get through the withdrawal process? I am trying to see what options I have right now besides reinstating, which I might end up having to do anyway. 

 

Thanks. 

NO, NO, NO!!   I am now on doctor number SEVEN.  They all went to the same school, been taught the same thing and all of them are clueless.  It wouldn't surprise me if they all have shares in the medical companies they flog the drugs for.  Don't waste your time.  You will get plenty of good advice here, lots of information - I would advise you to learn all you can about the w/d process before you start.  Lots of support.  All the best!

[JanCarol]

Hey Lojo - 

 

Welcome to SA!

Your story is not so unusual, and your descriptions of withdrawal symptoms are intense - but not unheard of.  I'm sure you've figured it out that you tapered too fast - we taper 10% of previous dose - so that it's a gentle curve, not a linear taper.  Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

And you seem to be agonising over this one:  About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Stop Withdrawal Symptoms

 

On 21/11/2017 at 3:21 AM, Lojo016 said:

The psychiatrist today said he never heard of post acute withdrawal syndrome. And that what I am experiencing is a return of the “mental ilness”.

 

That's what he's paid to do.  His livelihood depends on him saying that.  His entire model of "mental health" invests him in that belief - because if you could get better without the drugs - then why would you ever need him?  

 

Check here:  Is It Withdrawal or Relapse? Or Something Else?  (Thanks Gridley, you got to this one first!)

 

You profess that you were never manic until you were given SSRI's.  This means that you have suffered drug induced mania - and that is not a mental illness.

 

You may have, as Dr. Breggin calls it, "Problems of living," stress, hardship, even trauma in your life.  And surely those will need to be addressed (often the drugs numb you out too much to address them)  But problems of living are not "mental illness."  

 

Please read Robert Whitaker's excellent "Anatomy of an Epidemic."

 

On 22/11/2017 at 5:40 AM, Lojo016 said:

Are there any specialists or doctors that can help people get through the withdrawal process? I am trying to see what options I have right now besides reinstating, which I might end up having to do anyway. 

 

 

There are quite a few clinics which claim that they can "detox" you from psych drugs, and they do fast, dangerous tapers.  Most docs do fast, dangerous taper.  

 

My own pdoc is "holistic" and teaches mindfulness - but - she thought my SA taper plan was too slow, and kept trying to push me to go faster - because - I wasn't on her charts and graphs.  ("therapeutic levels," another fiction provided by drug companies).  Even Dr. Kelly Brogan - who is in NYC? - goes a lot faster than we do - but she is a doctor and can pick up the pieces if you fall apart from a fast taper.  (she has a 3 year waiting list, I hear)

We do have a list of doctors who understand tapering here:
Recommended doctors, practitioners and clinics

 

Many of us have just pushed a good doctor to do what we need.  A few have been able to educate their doctor, and the doctor accepted it and learned with an open mind (extremely rare).  

 

If the doctor tells you things like - your pdoc told you - it is time for a new doctor.

 

Again - I'm just meeting you - and while it seems horribly distressing to be in your symptoms right now - remind yourself - "This is just withdrawal."  Plan on it taking awhile - check back with yourself this time next year, and I'll bet you see a huge difference!

 

I hope you see the sun today!

Edited November 28, 2017 by JanCarol

[JanCarol]

PS - we need your symptom pattern.

 

WHat bothers you the most?  What is the most unbearable?

 

If we can get a good feel for your symptoms (sorry, I really don't want you focusing on them, but we need to know) - then we might be able to help you figure out which drug is causing the worst withdrawals.

 

For example, if you say Insomnia, I would suggest seroquel.

But if you said obsessive thoughts, I would lean towards Lexapro.

 

It is probably not a good idea to reinstate both of them.  The goal is not to get "just right," but to take the worst knife edge off of the symptoms, so that you can live and carry on as a human being.  It sounds like your life is pretty restricted right now.  (several of us have been through that "bed bound, housebound" time)

 

It's also - riskier because you are 4 months out.  So any reinstatement will be tiny, tiny to see if there's ANY improvement.  For example, 1/2mg Lexapro, or 12.5 mg seroquel. (tiny, tiny!)

If you cannot find another pdoc, we may still be able to work with the one you have.  For example, lexapro is available in a liquid.  You go in, and submit and say, "Yes, I'm crazy, but give me liquid please."  

[Lojo016]

I constantly have obsessions and rumination, repeating the same thoughts in my head like a broken record. And the anxiety is so severe. Mood swings. Since I was diagnosed with social anxiety and borderline personality disorder, most of my symptoms are centered around other people or relationships. 

 

I feel desperation and despair and like somehow someone can save me or rescue me from all this madness, insanity, and withdrawal. I remember when I was on the meds I didn’t need anyone, I was solitary and isolated and happy that way. Now I yearn for human affection, connection, and communication. I am still isolated and solitary but this time it is really getting to me. 

 

I want to reinstate both seroquel and lexapro. Last doctor I saw suggested seroquel first to stabilize me. 

 

All my WD symptoms resemble bi polar type 2 but it is not that but withdrawals I believe, however I don’t have any proof. But I was never like this prior to meds. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Lojo,

 

I think it's the withdrawal too.  And no.......there is no more proof of Withdrawal from the medical community, than there is for things like labeling you with "social anxiety and BPD".

 

When your brain feels a bit settled, try and focus on doing a few days, or even a days, worth of symptom patterns.  The other mods can advise you better once they have more information.  Just post a typical day here in your journal briefly.

 

And try to read some of the links suggested, especially those for anxiety and obsessions.

 

Love, peace, growth, healing/in recovery,

and best,

 

manymoretodays

[street129]

22 hours ago, Lojo016 said:

I constantly have obsessions and rumination, repeating the same thoughts in my head like a broken record. And the anxiety is so severe. Mood swings. Since I was diagnosed with social anxiety and borderline personality disorder, most of my symptoms are centered around other people or relationships. 

 

I feel desperation and despair and like somehow someone can save me or rescue me from all this madness, insanity, and withdrawal. I remember when I was on the meds I didn’t need anyone, I was solitary and isolated and happy that way. Now I yearn for human affection, connection, and communication. I am still isolated and solitary but this time it is really getting to me. 

 

I want to reinstate both seroquel and lexapro. Last doctor I saw suggested seroquel first to stabilize me. 

 

All my WD symptoms resemble bi polar type 2 but it is not that but withdrawals I believe, however I don’t have any proof. But I was never like this prior to meds. 

hi you need to talk im here. i also need to communicate with people on this forum.im stll having withdrawal and i have reinstate my original pill back to 250mg. for like for days, hoping for change,.

[Lojo016]

Last night and today the depression got the best of me. After getting up this morning I could feel the depression, lack of energy. I feel like my eyes are closing. Don't have much of an appetite. This has been like this for so long, can't remember, my memory is failing and my cognition is declining. It is times like this where I have suicidal ideations, because I do not want to go on like this anymore. The anxiety drives me crazy but the emotions that come on top of that are worse, deep emotions, maybe they are fake, neuro emotions. But this depression makes me think that I am worthless, inferior to everyone, not human, don't deserve to be alive or have a life, or breath. I am not worthy of any of that. Which is why it makes me think about suicide. 

 

Everyday my moods swings, I never know what is going to be messing with me that day, on most days it is severe obsessions and anxiety, today is it brutal depression. I can't do it anymore with this up and down roller coaster that I cannot even get off, I am stuck on this ride by force. 

 

I see a psychiatrist next week and hopefully I can go back on the same meds I was on before as they did take the edge off, reinstate for now and figure out what to do afterwards, such as taper off more intelligently and safely. 

[Lojo016]

Today the obsessions are severe as is the depression. I woke up with thoughts of "I don't want to live anymore". The anxiety is severe, a bit of paranoia, so unstable, scared of everything. Don't want to go into the hospital. 

 

I have been taking inostiol for two weeks now and I think it might be helping with anxiety and obsessions a little. What do you think about inositol, mods? I am in such bad shape right now that I am thinking about taking a 5-HTP. I have to wait until this Wednesday to see the doctor so that he can give me a script for the medications again. I am choosing to reinstate as soon as possible. Then hopefully once I am stabilized I will taper off with all the advice and help from this website and under the care of a doctor or some type of supervision. 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Lojo,

 

Here's a link to the inositol discussion:  looks like quite a few replies.

My only experience with it was when I tried it when on the "True Hope/Empower plus" program.  I had pretty rapidly tapered/C/Ted my medications during that trial.......I think I was on an atypical antipsychotic/neuroleptic/whatever,  a little similar to Seroquel, and an A/D, SSRI or SSNRI.  It may have helped just a little in the calming department.

 

Hang in there Lojo.  I know you are in bad shape........I came off the Seroquel first myself, and then the Lexapro before coming to SA. 

 

I think it's a good idea to get your scripts filled at your appointment on Wednesday.  I'll confer with a more experienced moderator as far as what you might consider now........in terms of updosing.  I hope we can get you a bit more comfortable, and keep you out of the hospital as well.   Is there anyone that you can take with you to your appointment next week?........I just remember how very difficult it was for me even to communicate.  It did get better. 

 

 

On 11/28/2017 at 7:37 AM, JanCarol said:

PS - we need your symptom pattern.

 

WHat bothers you the most?  What is the most unbearable?

 

If we can get a good feel for your symptoms (sorry, I really don't want you focusing on them, but we need to know) - then we might be able to help you figure out which drug is causing the worst withdrawals.

 

For example, if you say Insomnia, I would suggest seroquel.

But if you said obsessive thoughts, I would lean towards Lexapro.

 

It is probably not a good idea to reinstate both of them.  The goal is not to get "just right," but to take the worst knife edge off of the symptoms, so that you can live and carry on as a human being.  It sounds like your life is pretty restricted right now.  (several of us have been through that "bed bound, housebound" time)

 

It's also - riskier because you are 4 months out.  So any reinstatement will be tiny, tiny to see if there's ANY improvement.  For example, 1/2mg Lexapro, or 12.5 mg seroquel. (tiny, tiny!)

If you cannot find another pdoc, we may still be able to work with the one you have.  For example, lexapro is available in a liquid.  You go in, and submit and say, "Yes, I'm crazy, but give me liquid please."  

 

If the obsessions are your worst symptom now........you might do better just reinstating a teeny bit of the Lexapro.   Are you getting any lengthy stretches of sleep? 

Do you live alone?............ or have someone who can frequently check on in with you?

 

Okay.........love, hope, peace, healing, and recovery for you Lojo.  A cup of tea.  A warm hug.

 

manymoretodays

 

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2017 by manymoretodays

[ChessieCat]

4 hours ago, Lojo016 said:

I am thinking about taking a 5-HTP

 

Here is SA's topic:  5-htp-5-hydroxytryptophan-and-l-tryptophan

[Lojo016]

I live with my mother and she is helping at this time. On Wednesday a social worker will accompany me to the meeting with the doctor. The most severe symptoms I am having right now are obsessions and severe anxiety. With the obsessions I feel like it is a broken record repeating the same thoughts over and over again fueled with anxiety. I can't get it to stop, i have no control over it, my thoughts and mind. I can't stop thinking, racing thoughts, going back and forth between things, analyzing them, constantly checking over things, ruminating. I can't shut my mind off, or thoughts, or that they are racing. It is scaring me, making me panic and desperate enough to want to go to the hospital or someone to put me out of my misery. It is so bad and I am begging for it to stop, and it won't. I don't know what to do to make it stop, i don't want to do anything drastic, irrational or crazy, but I really need help. 

 

I hope the reinstatement of lexapro and seroquel will help with this right now. I cannot go on in this state anymore. 

[Lojo016]

Just took some inositol and finally have relief from the anxiety and obsessions. Now just feeling depressed and crying, this is a relief and a bit beautiful, I would so much rather deal with this than severe anxiety and obsessions. The first time I came off the meds all i did was cry and feel depressed, it was ok, beautiful even, i would get some obsession and anxiety but nothing like this. I am ok with sadness and crying right now, it is a walk in the park, but please no more obsessions and anxiety. 

[Lojo016]

Ok 3 hours later and wow, the mood swings are here. Feel very irritable and agitated, it was triggered by going out to the stores this evening. Maybe that extra inositol gave me the mood swings. Went from feeling severe anxiety and obsessions, to feeling sad and crying, and now to feeling moody and agitated, all over the course of one day. This has been going on for months, I am exhausted, i want stability or at least have some control. 

[Lojo016]

Thanks mods for your help and advice, greatly appreciate it. 

[manymoretodays]

Thanks for keeping us updated Lojo.  And I am glad the Inositol gave you a bit of a breather.

 

I'm just going to requote this part of JanCarol's last post for you to further study and absorb.  So that you are as well equipped as possible for your appointment on Wednesday. 

 

On 12/2/2017 at 4:01 PM, manymoretodays said:

It is probably not a good idea to reinstate both of them.  The goal is not to get "just right," but to take the worst knife edge off of the symptoms, so that you can live and carry on as a human being.  It sounds like your life is pretty restricted right now.  (several of us have been through that "bed bound, housebound" time)

 

It's also - riskier because you are 4 months out.  So any reinstatement will be tiny, tiny to see if there's ANY improvement.  For example, 1/2mg Lexapro, or 12.5 mg seroquel. (tiny, tiny!)

If you cannot find another pdoc, we may still be able to work with the one you have.  For example, lexapro is available in a liquid.  You go in, and submit and say, "Yes, I'm crazy, but give me liquid please."  

 

mmt

[JanCarol]

Hey Lojo - 

 

It sounds like rumination and obsession are your biggest symptoms - which sounds more like lexapro withdrawal than seroquel.

 

On 29/11/2017 at 5:30 PM, Lojo016 said:

 

I want to reinstate both seroquel and lexapro. Last doctor I saw suggested seroquel first to stabilize me

 

The seroquel will shut things down fairly quickly if that is what you want.

 

But - 

 

On 29/11/2017 at 5:30 PM, Lojo016 said:

Now I yearn for human affection, connection, and communication.

 

This is a sign of returning feelings.  When you were on the drugs, you felt fine being solitary - because - you were cut off from human feelings.  Some of us even go to extremes and become quite monstrous on the SSRI's because - we can't feel sympathy or empathy for another human being.  When we come off the drugs, we become more human and have feelings again.  Naturally (because life is like that) the negative feelings of loneliness, sadness, anger and fear tend to come back first - but when you feel those emotions - it is a sign that soon you will be able to feel good emotions, too - like pleasure, enjoyment, even happiness and connection.

What you report here - is starting to be sympathy for yourself.  That is awesome good news!

 

I know that you are feeling quite isolated by your symptoms - but what can you do - even if it's a small thing - to feel more connected?

Do you have a pet?  Can you dog walk for a neighbour?  Maybe just walking around your neighborhood will help you feel connected.  I know it did for me - as I did it every day (it was a huge part of my recovery), I started to know the plants in people's gardens ("look, the bottlebrush is in bloom!") and the visiting wildlife ("look, the lorikeets are feeding!" and "OH!  Is that a cockatoo?") - in addition, the neighbours got used to seeing me out, and would wave.  It was a low key interaction that made me feel not so alone.  Occasionally, there would be a conversation - but it was in the street - so it was limited by the venue (and therefore non-threatening).  I didn't make any new friends from this practice, but I now know who lives in those houses, which helps me to feel less alone.

That your first emotion is loneliness tells me that your emotions, your inner being, is craving company.  What can you do to support this emotion?

 

On 01/12/2017 at 4:44 AM, Lojo016 said:

today is it brutal depression

 

This is another case for avoiding the Seroquel, which will be numbing and depressing.

Again, your symptoms sound intense - but - incredibly normal for withdrawal.  It's "in the range."  

You might want to see what others have said about the obsession symptom, here:
 

 

or here:

 

 

or here:

 

Depression  and uncontrollable-crying-spells-during-and-after-withdrawal  

 

On 01/12/2017 at 4:44 AM, Lojo016 said:

I see a psychiatrist next week and hopefully I can go back on the same meds I was on before as they did take the edge off, reinstate for now and figure out what to do afterwards, such as taper off more intelligently and safely. 

 

Hopefully, you can go on small doses.  You have been off for months - full doses might be overstimulating.

If you are asking for scripts, ask for the lowest dose possible.  Do not accept substitute drugs, as they are not what your body is craving, and will just complicate your withdrawals.  Tell him that what you were on was fine.

Only accept the drugs you were on.  Ask for the lowest possible dose!  

Then, when you get home, consider trying 1/4 or 1/2 of the lowest dose.

If it were me, here's what I would do:
Accept a script for 5 mg Lexapro, or better - Lexapro liquid (make a note of the strength of the liquid, some formulas are very strong and need diluting)

Accept a script for 25 mg Seroquel.  DO NOT FILL IT.
 

If I got the liquid, I would start first with the Lexapro.  I would consider 0.5 mg Lexapro to start.  Wait 4 days before adjusting your dose.  We're not looking to "fix all symptoms," but are looking to get your symptoms down to a bearable level.  I would keep adjusting my dose up by 0.5 mg (yes, that's a HALF milligram!) every 4 days until I noticed a difference.
If you get a 5 mg tablet, I would start with 2.5 mg.  NO MORE!!!!  Too much while you are destabilised could harm you!

 

DO NOT START BOTH DRUGS AT THE SAME TIME!!!!  I'll say it again:  DO NOT START BOTH DRUGS AT THE SAME TIME!!!!  You may be fine on just the small amount of Lexapro - which would make your journey much easier than if you have to take the seroquel, too.  Additionally, if you have a reaction, we won't know which drug it is!  This is important!

When you get your Lexapro to a level you can live with (I'm hoping it's under 5 mg), then plan to hold.  

If your symptoms are still unbearable, then, after a month on the Lexapro alone, I would consider adding the Seroquel - but only 12.5 mg (a half of 25 mg tablet).  If you add back the Seroquel, it will be the last to go, as it will hammer down some of your Lexapro withdrawal - but - it also hits serotonin receptors, and can make everything more complicated.

Please look into Non Drug Techniques for Coping with Emotional Symptoms

 

Here are some links for rumination & depression

http://kellybroganmd.com/depression-what-is-it-for/

The Mindful Way Through Depression - Zindel Segal

Jeff Foster - From Depressed to Deep Rest

What May Help - No more Self Blame (Toxic Antidepressants)

 

I hope you see the sun today!  (that was an important part of my recovery too - getting the sun on my skin and in my eyes to help with melatonin, and Vitamin D)

 

 

 

 

[JanCarol]

Here's my own post on rumination:

 

Quote

Rumination used to be a part of our survival, when we were living rough - how to protect the children from the bear, where to hunt next, what techniques for hunting work better, was that root really good to eat? - and many other survival items that we would ruminate on, after the sun went down, and talk about with our family or tribe.  It was a key part of learning and surviving.

 

The problem now, is that these survivals are now handled by modern society (when was the last time a bear was seen in your neighborhood?).  But our brains are thinking machines, it's what they do.  

 

So instead, the brain has other things to focus on:  should I have said that?  what did she mean?  I definitely shouldn't have done that!  Maybe I could've done better?  What if I'd said this instead?   These problems are unsolveable!

 

Then, the judgements come in (because the brain is a thinking machine, and you've exhausted all the scenarios, and your emotions are engaged, so you start to judge:  I am such a failure!  All I do is hurt people!  I am a burden to those around me, I am useless!

 

The first step is to disengage the emotions; as you found, the silly children's song is useful for that!

Then - learn to observe the thoughts, back away from judging them.  They are only thoughts, it is only your brain doing what it was born to do.  

 

The images I have used for thoughts are train cars, rattling by on a track.  You can jump on any one of them and go for a journey - but the goal is to let them go by - they are just thoughts on a track.  Let them go by.  As soon as that thought goes by, then another will take it's place.  Your brain is doing it's job.  You can even use the rhythm of the train tracks to tell yourself:  thinking, thinking, thinking.

 

The best way to separate yourself from thinking is to pay attention to your breathing.  When you focus only on your breathing, that connection between your body and the rest of the world - air - inhale, exhale, breathing - then you notice that the thinking is not so important.

 

Another image I have used is clouds.  You can't control thoughts, anymore than you can control clouds.  They come and go as they will, doing what they do.  (The Sound of Music has a line:  "How do you catch a cloud, and pin it down?")

 

The difference between me and a zen master, is that the zen master still thinks, but he has run so many thoughts down that track that his thoughts are more efficient.  He has traced the thought generating mechanism to its source in the brain, and manages to pay attention only to the thoughts which are useful.

 

He still has clouds in his skies, but they are clearer, brighter, and more likely to be productive.

found at:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/11110-rain-dropped-dose-of-lexapro-feeling-so-bad-please-help/page-6

 

 

[Lojo016]

Thanks JanCarol. I am keeping my fingers crossed for the appointment for tomorrow, I hope I get the scripts I need. I have no idea what else to do after that, I'll see what the doctor suggests and i have the advice and suggestions from the people on here, so I feel I am better informed as to the decisions I am going to take next. 

 

Been having anxiety attacks the whole day about the appointment tomorrow, I have been waiting weeks for this and over a month to reinstate to get some relief. 

[JanCarol]

Hey Lojo - 

 

Been thinking about this:
 

On 03/12/2017 at 7:40 AM, Lojo016 said:

 

I have been taking inostiol for two weeks now and I think it might be helping with anxiety and obsessions a little. What do you think about inositol, mods

 

My orthomolecular MD really likes inositol for anxiety, smoothing the nerves, and nourshing the system.  However - on people in withdrawal anything which hits on the neurotransmitters can go paradoxical, I think you might have felt a bit of that, here.
 

On 04/12/2017 at 11:27 AM, Lojo016 said:

Ok 3 hours later and wow, the mood swings are here. Feel very irritable and agitated, it was triggered by going out to the stores this evening.

:
Resist the urge to take "extra" anything!  It's better to stay the same than go up and down like a yoyo.

 

Think of it like a bouncing basketball.  The more you hit the basketball, the longer it stays bouncing.  We want the basketball to come to rest (stable).  If you take regular inositol, fine - but keep an eye out for those paradoxical reactions and be prepared to let it go - the thread that manymoretodays posted shows lots of people having reactions to it.  But it helps me, and it has helped others, and it is good nourishment for the nerves and endocrine systems.

Remember - Don't start both drugs at once!  Choose one, and keep careful notes, to determine whether you are going in the right direction - or - if it's just bouncing the basketball!

 

Keep notes on paper

 

I hope you see the sun today!
 

[manymoretodays]

Hi Lojo,

 

Hey, how did it go today at the doctor?  Please fill us in when you can.

 

Best,

mmt

[manymoretodays]

I'm just thinking out loud here.  Were you able to get some pill cutters when you got your prescriptions?  Those can be helpful at the start, and then often I think it gets easier to read up on and use other methods to slowly taper on down.

 

I'll follow........as that Lexapro and Seroquel combination was one that I was on for a bit as well.  It's a popular prescribing combination

 

I think it was when the psychiatrist I had at that time wanted me to continue going on up with Seroquel.........that I switched psychiatrists.  I felt very unheard, and although I could get to my appointments alone that is about all I could do.  The rest of the time I was a couch potato, demotivated, foggy brained, some dizziness, and just generally unwell.  I also was beginning to get the metabolic effects.  I believe that I gained about a pound/day for at least a month, possibly more.  I'd also get some really strange food cravings.

 

(should have titled this "my Seroquel memoir's ", eh?)

 

Hoping you are having some relief of sometimes unbearable symptoms.

 

best,

mmt

[JanCarol]

Hey Lojo - 

 

What did you get from the doctor?

Which drugs, and at what doses?

What have you started taking?

 

Please keep us up to date if you want help, and please update your signature as well.

 

Thanks, and I hope you see the sun today!

JanCarol

[grandmaD]

Lojo, I have been wondering how you are going?  Did you go back to the doctor and re-instate?  Please let us know how you are!

[manymoretodays]

Lojo.......me as well, wondering?  Try and check on in real soon.  ((((((Lojo)))))