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Waterfall: Introduction

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Oh, I understand feeling scared about what might happen hours from now or tomorrow.  I still get that feeling.  I also have the feeling of being scared in the present for no real reason.  That happens less frequently now except after a cortisol spike wakes me up.  Then, it's just as bad.  


When the anxiety was more intense, I used to feel a lot better after I cried.  It seems to be another of those "re-wiring" type things.  The brain seems to be trying out all these different "settings" or emotions and the physiological effect thereof including what happens when we cry.  It would be merely annoying if it wasn't so emotionally intense.  So, the crying due to intense anxiety is clearly a response to fear, but the right hormones are released nonetheless and there is a corresponding release of anxiety.  I compare it to bring pregnant and crying for no reason -- that wasn't scary though.  It was perplexing and kinda funny.  The emotion behind it wasn't anxiety or fear, and it was over much quicker.  However, it was just as random and bizarre.  It's the same sort of misfire due the wrong neurotransmitters being released.


The fact that your day went better than you expected it to is good news.  That means your body is recovering faster from the anxiety and is less affected by it, at least for today.  That's great, Waterfall!



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3 hours ago, Rosetta said:



Okay, Rosetta, you're going to have to teach me how to just tag people in a post.  

I've seen you do it before.  


I'm really sorry if I made you guys worry about me.  

I know how painful it can be to wait to hear from someone, hoping they are doing okay.


Anyway, I just wanted to thank you both again.  

You have no idea how much your posts have meant to me.  

Or maybe you do... since you've probably had people and posts that meant a lot to you too. 

Wow, this journey is tough, but having friends like you around makes a huge difference. 


Both of these two posts again gave me great encouragement 

and you keep building my hope, my toolkit, and just plain bolstering my spirits.  


One of my biggest struggles for today, is trying not to worry about my sleep tonight. 

Recently, once I got to sleep, I was out for the night.  

For over a month now, I've been having cortisol spikes.

And for the last couple weeks I've been waking up in the middle of the night as well. 

Which doesn't help you fall asleep in the first place,

because you are worried about that next moment of awareness... 

.. that may well be a cortisol spike in the middle of the night. 

So frustrating. 


Last night was my worst night yet.  

Only just over 3 hours of sleep.  


And I've been letting a bad train of thought run away with me. 

What is causing this disturbance in sleep?  

So I've been scared of everything I do. 

Is it the meds I'm taking doing this?  

Is it this activity, or that one?  

Something I ate?  

Something I didn't do, or eat?  

Is it a thought pattern?  


Well.  I'm moving.  

And I just have to get through it. 

I've already survived a lot.  

Here's hoping I have a good sleep tonight. 

But for the next half hour, I've committed to not worrying about it. 


Heh... I wanted to go find a good book to read, 

but they are all packed already!

I almost wish you could come and see how bare my place looks right now. 

Packing and stuff isn't -all- done yet.  

But we've got through a lot of it!


Pretty soon we'll be through the actual 'moving' phase. 

And we'll be on to the organizing and adjusting phase on the other side. 

Let's try not to worry about my first night sleep on the other side... already.  

Tonight's sleep has enough worry of it's own.  


Aaand... I walked away for a while.  

In the middle of writing this message.  


And now I want to point out, that I left my chair. 

Okay, that sounds silly to point that out. 

But I left it, just for fun.  Not because I had to. 

And I had fun while out of it.  

Hey, it's notable for me. 


And I just had fun with my kids. 

They are all awake, complaining that they have scary thoughts.  

So I was talking with them about 'changing the channel'. 

And we had fun talking about, well, fun things.  

And it felt good. 


And not only that.  

It reminded me that I should use that strategy more too. 

I already knew about it, of course.  But I mean, actually use it.  


Oh, in the middle of the night, 

I try very hard not to think about how I'm feeling. 

And not to get scared by it. 


But how often do I purposefully just think about something pleasant? 

Not too often, if I admit it to myself.  

So.  New plan for tonight, if I wake up.  

Actually think about... fluffy pink unicorns. 

And puppies.  And rainbows.  

And skipping stones across the lake.  

And camping.  And dancing.  

And... happy things.  




Time to watch some Voyager. 

And go get some sleep!

(I even took a nap this afternoon, bonus!)


Good night everyone.  


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Sleep well Waterfall!!!!  

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You give me comfort and hope, too, Waterfall.  Thank you.  


If you type @ then R, you will see a list come up that has Rabe's name on it.  Type @Roset, and you will see my name.  Tap on my name, and @Rosetta will replace what you have typed.  After you post I will get a notice.


I understand completely about being afraid to go to sleep because of the misery in the night and the cortisol spike.  I also identify with the desire to figure out why I go into a wave and how to stop it.  


I'm glad you got out of your chair by choice and that you had fun with your kids!  That's wonderful.  I, too, try to think more positive thoughts.  Sometimes I succeed.



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19 hours ago, Rabe said:

Sleep well Waterfall!!!!  


Thanks, Rabe.  I actually did sleep pretty well. 

Fell asleep shortly after 11. 

And when I had a cortisol spike in early morning, 

I was able to stay reasonably calm, and go back to sleep. 

Woke up again shortly before 7 o'clock, which is when I aim to get up.  

Don't think I actually got out of bed until 7:30, but you know... that's a struggle of it's own. 


Today I had to keep working on moving.  

I did one thing that I wasn't sure I could. 

Then I kept working, when I wasn't sure I could. 

And then I did one more thing, when I thought I couldn't. 

And then another.  

And another.  


And considering I feel pretty exhausted.  

I'm surprised that I don't feel... worse.  

And that I'm still doing... okay. 

I've been nervous. 

I've even been kinda scared. 

And sore. 

And tired. 

And had trouble thinking sometimes. 

Been on the verge of tears.  

Been really nauseated.  

And yet somehow... I survived.  

And I'm doing okay.

Don't get me wrong, today was hard.  It was tough.  

I'm just seriously surprised that I'm as upbeat as I am. 


Ow!  As my chest starts hurting really badly again.  

Ouch.  I wish it would stop that.  


@Rosetta   Like this?  

Cool.  Now I see why you said that I could get Rabe with only an R, 

but that I had to add a few more letters to get yours.  

Wow, there's a long list of R names, isn't there?  


Thank you also for all your kind words.  

I haven't stopped by your thread yet, but I hope you are doing well. 

I hope you have had some relief from your restless legs.  

I also hope you have found things to enjoy and smile about. 


I wish the same for Rabe, DaveB, and all those who have been struggling through this. 

May you have relief from your symptoms.  

May you find something today to enjoy and something to smile about.  


Me?  I hope I have a good sleep, and relief from my chest pain.  


Oh!  I almost forgot.  That was meant to be the end, but... 

Since we got a scale, my husband has been cutting my pills and measuring them. 

Well, that sometimes means trying to swallow a bunch of little pieces.  

So he ordered a bunch of empty capsules to put the bits in for me.  

They just arrived.  

He also ordered some magnesium citrate,

which hopefully I'll tolerate better than the other magnesium I tried. 


Now he's hoping to mix the magnesium with my clonazepam and put it in the empty pill capsules. 

I'm not totally sure if I feel comfortable with that.  

He thinks he could measure it more accurately, 

if he ground up my pill, and then mixed it with the 

magnesium, and then measured it out.  

I'm just not sure if it can be mixed evenly that way.  

Anybody have experience with this specifically? 

Mixing it with a filler, basically, and then measuring it out, 

and putting it in a new capsule before taking the dose.  

I'm just not sure about it.  

I don't want to make any mistakes.  

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I don't know.   I would be leery.  There might be some reaction.  My mag has a citrus flavor and it dissolves in water.  It fizzes.  I wouldn't want it to react with the Clonazapam in some odd way.  


Start with a low dose.  The can says 325 mg is the dose.  I take about a quarter of that at a time.  My goal is 4 times a day.  That's too much to start with for you.  I think you should try 1/4 of a dose and slowly work up.  My two cents!

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13 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I don't know.   I would be leery.  


Well, I haven't changed anything yet.

And I probably shouldn't until I finish moving. 


But thankfully coming here and rereading your post

reminded me that I haven't taken my dose yet this morning!  Ack!


Feeling very sore and blah today.

Slept fairly well last night.  

Only got 6 1/2 hours,

but with more deep sleep and REM 

than I've been getting lately.


Here's hoping for another day that goes better than I expect.  

So far... I don't want to move. 

And my youngest came down with a fever last night. 

And hasn't gotten up yet.  

The rest are off to school for grandparents day!  

My Dad can't make it, but my Mom will be there.  

The kids were pretty excited.  


Oh!  I hear a little boy... 

Time to go.  

And better take my pill before I forget too!


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I feel just utterly depleted.

I don't know how I keep moving.

And tomorrow is move in day.  

Tomorrow my chair will be in a different house.

Tomorrow I will sleep in a different house.

And there is still so much to do.

I hope I can relax tonight.

I hope I can move tomorrow.


Here's wishing you all a good day tomorrow.

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Thinking of you today.  I hope all goes well!

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4 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Thinking of you today.  I hope all goes well!


Well.  The day isn't done yet.  

But I have yet to cease to be surprised how far beyond 'the end' I can go. 

I keep thinking, this is it, I don't have anything left. 

And I keep going.  


Thanks, Rosetta.  

So far, so... good enough. 


Very thankful for the help of others.  

What they did was huge.  

We accomplished a lot today already. 


Still worried how I will do sleeping in a different bed tonight. 

In a different room. 

That's recently been repainted. 

And re-carpeted. 


But I'm really beginning to believe that 

if I've made it through all I've already done, 

and knowing what some of your others have all survived, 

that while the road may be pretty bumpy, 

that I really can survive a lot.  


Sorry, that was totally a run on sentence.  

Hope you can figure out what I meant there. 

I totally need to go eat lunch... 

Not sure my brain is working anymore.  


Here's hoping you are all having a better day today. 

It's definitely warm and sunny out here today.  


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I hope the move isn't too stressful on you and you get settled into your new home.

healing thoughts to you.




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Hi Waterfall,

You are all moved!  Wow!!!  SO glad you have a bed to sleep in.  Did your chair make it in one piece?? :) 

I know that for me when my system is so at the edge I have reacted to carpet and paint and flooring 

etc.  If you notice an uptick while in the room maybe try airing it as you can. Just wanted to share as

the environmental toxins affected me quite adversely.  Congratulations on your new home!!!!

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@Rosetta @direstraits @Rabe


Thank you all for your encouragement.

Good news!

The chair and I both made it here in one piece!


Yesterday morning was tough,

but the afternoon went pretty good.

I even slept pretty well last night.

In slot of new noises and sounds,

And the fact that we do not yet have blinds in the window!


A few hiccups, like the part where my bladder began to hurt at supper last night.

And the headache I have this morning.

But all in all, better than I had dared hope!

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Yay!!!  I have been getting 1 hour sleep lately!  It is  a challenge to function that way Waterfall!  SO glad you and  your chair 

have relocated amicably!!

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Whew!  So nice to hear this, W.  

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Great news! Better than hoped!

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Oh, I'm so sorry to hear you haven't been sleeping much.  

I hope that it improves soon.

I can't imagine how I'd survive!


I did have a pretty food sleep last night,

and I can barely keep my eyes open today!

I think I feel worse today than I did yesterday,

which is not what I expected.



Thanks.  I hope that you are doing well

and that you have had some relief from your restless legs.

My chest pain and other aches and pains have plagued me today.


Oh, that we could all feel better.

Our family was invited to join others at the park today.

Gorgeous weather outside.  

The kids would love it.

But my husband and I just aren't up to it.

Makes me sad.  


But I should be glad that I don't have to work hard today.

And that, while there is lots of work left,

that we have gotten so much done already.

I need to focus more on the positives.

Be more positive.

It's just hard when you feel so lousy.


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Just had one of the worst episodes ever.

Amazingly, I stayed pretty calm.

We visited someone for supper.

And leading up to supper,

I became so weak I could barely walk

or stay standing.

Even sitting I was afraid of dropping my cup.

Forced my food in.

Was afraid I wouldn't be able to walk back to my van.

I did.  

And the shaking and trembling improved.

But I'm mentally shaken by the episode.

Don't ever want to endure something like that again.

So discouraged.

Sorta want to cry.

Sorta don't.

Why?  Why did this happen?


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Hi Waterfall,. How awful for you.  I'm so sorry that happened.  It was probably because you moved.  You are overwhelmed.  Your system is on heightened alert because you did too much.  It will calm down.  You should take it easy, I suppose.  Can your family get the drapes up in your bedroom tonight or do you have a sleep mask?

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Oh, will this trembling ever stop?

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What happens if you take a warm bath or go for a walk?  Does it help?

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Was it anxiety before going to visit the people Waterfall or you felt so weak in process of?  I too think you did SOO much with the move...its like Rosetta after all the party preparations and so exhausted after?  Think we push our systems and then they flare up again, though it sure feels good to do those things..feels so normal and accomplished!!!  You did SO SO much...hope you can give your mind and body a well deserved rest!!!  Last thing I read from you last night sounded good...I'm so sorry this happened!  Please take care!!

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Too tired to type much.

Struggled toward the middle/end of the visit.

Low blood sugar, perhaps?

No idea.

It sucked.


Today started rough.

Got better.

Ending rough.

Feeling tense.

Having a hard time getting to bed.

Hope tomorrow goes well.

House is looking more organized.  😊

Now if only I didn't feel so tired.

And rotten.  


One day at a time.

For now, one minute at a time,

till I fall asleep.



Talked more than I thought I could.


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That's at least the second time I thought I sent a message and it didn't actually appear. 

Thankfully it can sometimes save my unsent message for me.  

So there it is. 


Today is a bit lighter on the stress.  Less pressure to get stuff done.  

Less shaky and trembling today. 

But my chest hurts really badly today.  

Somewhat short of breath today.  

Feels like someone punched me in the chest. 

Sometimes it will feel like someone wrapped a band around my chest. 

Chest has been bad since yesterday afternoon around school pick-up time.

And now that's I've finally sat in my chair today, I seem to have a bit of headache. 

And my lip is tingling.  

And my arms are kinda sore and tense again.  

That was a big thing when I was trying to settle last night.  Sore, tense arms.  


Best news?  

I had a pretty good sleep last night.  

7 1/2 hours!  And a decent amount of deep and REM sleep in there too!

(I'm sorry, that must sound like a dream (literally!) to you Rabe!

   I hope you've been sleeping better!)  


Even though sometimes I despair. 

And I wonder how I can possibly survive feeling this miserable.  

I try to remember how other people have survived worse.  

So.  This sucks. 

But it probably won't kill me.  

And if I just keep making it through another day. 

Either I'll get better at being tough. 

Or it will actually get better.

Or both!

Here's hoping!


Trying to stay positive.  

Get what needs doing done. 

Eat enough. 

Drink plenty.  

Get lots of sleep.  


Just opened the blinds to give myself some more sunshine.  

Sometimes lately I feel like the sun is just too bright. 

But I want to keep pushing myself to get some sun. 

I think it will be good for me in the long run.  


Already I find that I don't wake up from the sun in the morning 

with a big cortisol spike like I did just a little while ago.  

Not that I don't wake up.  Or have cortisol spikes.  

But it's not the same, wake up and panic, ah, the light is hurting me, kind of feeling.  


Oh, but I wish I didn't feel so rough.  

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Wow, do I feel awful.



Shoulders burning.



Slight headache.

Periodic tingling.

Hands and feet fall asleep easily.

Terrible chest pain.


Dozed this afternoon.

Made myself eat and drink regularly.

Trying to rest and relax as much as possible.

Feeling quite anxious.

Very discouraged.

Times like this I wonder how to keep going.

Am I actually ever going to get better?

Feels like I just keep getting worse.

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The biggest hug, Waterfall.  Yes, you will get better.  Of course, you will.  This is a bad waves that is telling you otherwise.  You have been through a lot.  


Your system will gradually calm down again.  I'm so sad for you.  I hope you can get in the bath with some Epsom salts.


Peace, Rosetta

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Yay!  Had another good sleep last night. 

Terrible time settling down last night. 

But I slept well.  

Had a dream that I actually remembered, 

and it wasn't even a nightmare!

Strange, yes... but no terror involved.  

Tension, perhaps.  Annoyance.  But no outright fear.  


Still... had to get up, and felt pretty horrible.  

Crampy, sore, trembling, and shaky.  

Stomach wasn't happy, but not crazy nauseated like yesterday either. 

Wasn't sure if I was going to be able to drop the kids off at the bus. 

But I did it!

I was almost in tears this morning.  

Wondering if I could even move. 


But as you can probably tell by my tone, 

I'm having a brief window of cheer at the moment.  

Wonder how long it will last.  

Feels nice after the despair of this morning, and yesterday.   

Wish it would stay.  

Wish I could feel better faster.  

Trying to get my breakfast down right now. 

A little bit dreading to take my pill this morning.  

My husband did add a small amount of magnesium.  

Can't help wondering if it's partly to blame for my nausea or not. 

It could just as easily be the stress of moving.  

I hate not knowing.  


I still don't know if I really understand what is going on.  

And if I don't know, how can I stop it from happening more?  

Or help it to get better?  

I've gotten better at accepting what is going on, right now.  

I have to get better at accepting uncertainty.  

The uncertainty of what comes later. 

The not knowing.  


The first time I went on antidepressants, and quit.  

I had no immediate symptoms.  

My first symptoms appeared roughly half a year later.  

But I didn't fully crash, 

and I mean CRASH, 

until 5 years later.  


This doesn't make sense to me. 

But neither does any other explanation.  

Was it the fact that I had three kids in those years?  

It was having the third one, that helped precipitate the crash. 

And when I crashed, my symptoms were so exactly like withdrawal. 

Like my system was just totally sensitized.  I reacted to every tiny thought. 

I was panicking non-stop, couldn't sleep, etc.  

Probably also had cortisol spikes.  

Just didn't know what they were back then.  

I just wish I understood.  

I wish I knew the right answers.  

I wish I knew for sure the right path to take.  

And what it would take to get there.  


And I just want to stop feeling so rotten.  

For years already, I've been saying,

            "I'm just so sick and tired, of being so sick and tired."



Thanks for the hugs, @Rosetta

Your encouragement always helps me.  

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Hi Waterfall,

Im sniffing with you! :( But also so happy to hear about your dreams and good sleep! :)  Hope this day is kind!

(heart) Becky

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That's curious that you had Welbutrin in 2009, and quit after less than a year, but you didn't crash until 2014.  Were you pregnant most of that time between the cold turkey and the crash?  


I presume that CTing the second time from citalopram was the most significant fact in trying to determine how you ended up in such bad shape.  That said, the way these drugs and our cycles and pregnancies interact with them is something that should be researched extensively by independent scientists.  I would bet that there would a clue or two in midst of all of that adrenal, hormone, etc. data that would be collected.  We know that research won't be done in time for us to benefit from it, but I wish so,done would get started!


Meanwhile, all we can do is put one foot in front of the other, W.  I hope you can stay in your new house for a very long time.  You will heal, but it's a difficult journey, I know.  How I wish I could just sleep for hours on end and heal that way.  I think the interference with sleep is the reason we take so long to heal.  


I'm sending the best vibes your way.  -Rosetta

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Thanks, @Rabe



I was pregnant or nursing for much of the time between the CT and the crash.

Felt 'off' for all those years.

Kept going to doctors. 

Always said nothing was wrong.

I crashed after my last cold was born,

Although the whole pregnancy was really hard.

I recovered from that crash...

By taking antidepressants.  And a benzo.


Really hard to understand what all causes what. 

If we even can.


The one thing I know for sure is,

Before AD, I struggled.

I had anxiety.  I had panic attacks.

I had the blues and lack of motivation.


I had panic attacks that wouldn't end.

When I couldn't even identify something I was scared of.  Other than the panic!

I've been so tired, I didn't feel I could do anything.

I have never felt such physical misery.

I couldn't even cry at my uncle's funeral.

And now I cry in unpredictable spells.


Right now, I hurt so much.  

My shoulders hurt.

My chest hurts.

My breast bone hurts.

My ribs hurt.

My arm hurts.

My abdomen has some pains.

I'm nauseated.

Had bad anxiety this afternoon.

Cried some.


It's hard not to feel like I'm dying.

How could I feel this bad and not have

something seriously wrong?

Sometimes I think,

if I'm going to feel this bad,

I wish I would die.

Now don't fear... I'm not suicidal.

But man, this is rough.

I'm scared.

I'm tired.

I've had more than enough.

Ten times over.

I reached the end of my rope,

And I've already been a mile past.


The encouragement I've found here

has been invaluable. 

Thanks guys.  

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I have a bit of a headache too.

Little bit dizzy, but not too bad.

The nausea is really, really annoying.

But the symptom that is nearly

unbearable, is the pain on my

left side, right at the bottom of my ribs.

It doesn't feel like normal pain.

Abdominal discomfort.


I can handle all those.

This pain is nearly unbearable.

Sometimes it feels closer to my heart.

Sometimes it feels almost lower than my ribs.

I've endured fatigue.





Crying spells.

Why is it -this- symptom

that's bothering me so much?


Though I have to say weakness is

Another one that's really hard.

And brain fuzziness.

The episode on Sunday was really bad.

That really scared me.

Also prefer shivers, it even shakes,

to trembling.


Oh, what a mess.  

I'm laughing at myself now.

Thinking about which symptoms I prefer.

That's almost funny.

In a sad sort of way.

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How could I forget the burping?  

The burping was gone for a while.  

Now it's back again.

And the tingles.

I had tingling in my hands.

And my feet,

And even my scalp.

My lips.

My nose.

Don't like that either.

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Hi Waterfall...having a difficult day as well...hard to make any sense of anything it seems.  Feel like a cuckoo clock...maybe minus the clock part. ;) Yes, it is so tiring dealing with it all day after day...been a long road...and the road ahead seems so very long still!  Scared, tired, wanting to quit...can understand...but also know we would never have made it this far without much strength and the support of those who have walked this road and those who truly care about us.  Tired as look at road ahead and tired as get no sleep.  But perhaps tomorrow will be better!  Hoping it will be so for you!  Please take care, WF!  Hoping for a sweet dream or two for you!!

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21 minutes ago, Rabe said:

Tired as look at road ahead and tired as get no sleep.  But perhaps tomorrow will be better!  Hoping it will be so for you!  Please take care, WF!  Hoping for a sweet dream or two for you!!


I always marvel that others, like you, who are struggling so much too,

can still provide so much support and encouragement.

But then i just thought, hey, I do it too! 

I really hope you get some good sleep tonight, Rabe.

Let us keep encouraging each other down this long hard road.  

May tomorrow be brighter for us all.

And if not, may we hold out strong for other bright days that may come.

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Loved that Waterfall!!!!  Beautiful!!!

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Does anyone know if there is a doctor anywhere in the lower mainland of British Columbia that understands antidepressant withdrawal?

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