F14rx : withdrawal ahead

[F14rx]

14 years on Celexa : (citalopram) because of a misdiagnosis. Bunch of symptoms that i ended up with over the years : Irritable Bowel Syndrome, bad acid reflux / stomach problems, aura migraine, migraine,tinnitus,spasms, bladder leakage, sexual problems, etc.
A year ago I've discovered that most the physical and psychological diagnostics mentioned before were all due to the medication. I was a shocked and took me a year of therapy to defuse my anger and rage  It took me almost the same amount of time to convince one psychiatrist that i needed to withdrawal from the medication.  I have seen and read a lot about withdrawals but joined this forum to get the support needed when the time comes.

The psychiatrist i'm seeing says that no symptoms should appear, that everything will be ok - that he didn't see anything negative in his literature and with the hundreds of patients he got into withdrawals over the years.
He wants me to taper going from 20 mg to 15 , 10, 5 in 3-4 months . I said i would prefer going slowly by 10 %, he refused and said it was ridicule and i wouldn't even see no difference. 
I just hope everything will be ok.
 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, F14rx.

 

You are wise to prepare yourself before tapering. Here are the relevant topics

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Preparing to taper

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?
 
What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

Please let us know how you're doing.

[nz11]

Welcome F14

I just cant believe the number of new people joining today and the outrageous things told to them and the druggary done to them by doctors is heartbreaking.

 

On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 5:13 AM, F14rx said:

The psychiatrist i'm seeing says that no symptoms should appear, that everything will be ok - that he didn't see anything negative in his literature

Don't you believe it. He is not correct.

This is because the literature is hopelessly poisoned and side effects and withdrawal effects are not mentioned. I mean who would take a drug if they were told it would leave them sexually ruined for life once they got off it. That's if they can even get off it. A similar comment was made to me too. No mention of having to taper for years to get off the drug. Funny that. 

 

On ‎12‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 5:13 AM, F14rx said:

I said i would prefer going slowly by 10 %, he refused and said it was ridicule and i wouldn't even see no difference. 

 

Sounds like its time to cut all ties with these people. You are very correct in what you need to do to back out from under the weight of this  drug. You don't need these clowns anymore. Their ignorance makes them very dangerous. 

 

Thanks for doing the drug sig. Be great if you could put the doses into the drug sig as well.. That would be helpful too. 

 

so glad you found sa....you have found for yourself a great little gift of guidance and help in a dark time.

nz11

 

[F14rx]

Thanks to both of you  ; and nz11
Altostrata:  thanks for all the links , i will surely read all of this attentively
and update you once it starts.
nz11 :
Yes i have had enough of this psychiatrist, this is where i draw the line, just can't deal with those people anymore.
Never listening to the people who are taking the drugs. Only reading their pharmaceuticals financed scientific articles.
For one year he doubted about my symptoms making me feel like i was talking about ufo's . Discrediting every critical psychiatrists and tagging them
as dissidents.

The only thing he did agree about, was the link between SSRI's and sexual dysfunction,   but he goes on prescribing those pills again and again !?!

Their lack of empathy is overwhelming.

[manymoretodays]

Hi F14rx,

 

What are your chances of finding another Doctor or prescriber?  Just concerned.......as it sounds like this one that you presently have, may continue with more of the same........belittling you and your ideas.

 

Could you add your present doses to your signature?

 

And welcome aboard survivingantidepressants. 

 

Love, peace, healing/inrecovery, and growth,

 

mmt

[F14rx]

Hi manymoredays,
The doctor (psychiatrist) i'm seeing now was supposed to prepare his supervision and recommended protocols to my family doctor : gp.
Now it will be hard to convince my family doctor (gp) to listen to me instead of the doctor (psychiatrist) , who is he gonna trust ?  A patient or a specialist ?
Hope he's willing to listen to me. Otherwise it will be hard to get a prescription elsewhere.
Btw the psychiatrist challenged me to find one pharmacy that was willing to do a 10% slow taper.
Found one and they said no problem... Now just need the rx.

 

[F14rx]

Hi All,

After a long period of going back and forth between the psychiatrist and my therapist, I'm finally going to have a meeting with my therapist to
start the withdrawal process of Celexa 20 mg which I've been taking for the last 14 years (misdiagnosis).
Although the psychiatrist doesn't agree with a slow tapering approach he will go ahead making the prescription that will be sent to my GP.
I insisted for a 10% slow taper approach on a 5-6 months period.
He stated through a memo that he left for me : ''this is ridiculous but i will do it if you insist ''... '' such a waste of time''.
He wanted to cut down by 5 mg every 3-4 weeks.
I don't know how its going to work out but I'm positive that at some point i will find my older self.
Anyone here that is either going through that process* or have went through it ?
Thanks
* celexa withdrawal of + 10 years

[manymoretodays]

Hi F14rx,

Only one introduction and update per member.........so I moved your most recent post here.  So nice to see you back and ready to embark on this journey.

It's important to realize that a 10% taper is based on each previous dose taken..........so, 10% of your present 20mg. dose will be 18mg.  Then after 4-6 weeks or so, depending on how you are doing,  you would only decrease 1.8mg. from 18mg., which would be 16.2mg.  Do you follow?    So........this may wind up being a longer taper than just 5-6months. 

 

I'm going to  refer you now to the 2nd post in your introduction which has a  links around celexa tapering.  Take a look at those again please and let's continue to formulate a good plan for you.

I'm glad you checked in before doing too much more.

 

So your GP will be writing your prescriptions now for the Celexa?  And your psychiatrist will maintain you on the Clonazepam?  When do you take your medications now?  And what form and pill strength is your Celexa?

 

Love, peace, healing/inrecovery, and growth,

manymoretodays

 

 

[F14rx]

Hi everyone,
If i'm writing its because i'm quite exhausted of not being able to make the jump to withdrawal from my Celexa 20 mg.
The thing is the psychiatrist / psycho-pharmacologist just won't hear me and say that nothing - yes nothing - might happen if he starts the tapering from 20mg to 15mg
He added that even if you chip or slice the pill , there's no guarantee that when you do that, that there's for ex: a 1mg in the piece you just cut off',
the pill is not homogeneous he said... And that's why that all the people who try to do that themselves are probably having a hard time cause they're not taking the good amount.
( I know , he's a tough nut to crack, he's a psycho-pharmacologist on top).
He wants to reduces the amount by 5mg every month and there's no pharmacy here that will reduced the prescription by 10% , they just won't do it (hey what's the point ?).
Actually there's one in Ontario but he won't sign cause he's holding on to his point.
I know some people will suggest to change doctor but that's just impossible.
I'm lucky that i don't have to pay to see a doctor where I'm from so i would have to wait for a half a year , a year maybe to see another specialist.
That being said, i just wanted to know what lies ahead for me. I'm prepared for anything ( doesnt mean i'm happy about it).
Brain zaps, nausea, headaches, flu like symptoms etc.
It seem's to be like the Russian roulette (slow or fast metabolizer, enzymes, etc)

15 years on that crap for a misdiagnosis and just can't get off. It's like i sold my soul to the devil.
I'm so tired of all that, just want to move on.
Thnx

[Altostrata]

Hello, F14. I moved your post here to your Intro topic.

 

Very few people here have found a doctor to be helpful in tapering.

 

You don't have to do it his way, you can make your own liquid from a tablet, see Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

As far as what you would tell him, read these again

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?
 
What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

 

Of course, if he or another doctor would prescribe liquid citalopram for you, that would be easier for you. Any doctor can prescribe these drugs, it doesn't have to be a psychiatrist. Would your GP be more helpful?

[F14rx]

Hi Altostrata,
Yes i would need a new prescription to do that, and my GP is never gonna prescribe this, he's quite aware of the situation and feels incompetent as to taking steps
with those kinds of medications. That's a major problem getting a new prescription. I feel trapped with this psychiatrist, and my psychologist is on his side so...
 

[Songbird]

If you cannot get a doctor to agree to a slow taper, you could perhaps tell your GP you want to stay on it for a while longer, so that you can keep getting prescriptions from him.  Then make your own doses from the tablets by one of the tapering methods described here.  The deception is not an ideal situation, but some people have had to resort to it in order to be able to taper safely.  Your health is more important than this psychiatrist's ego.

[Altostrata]

Yes, if you cannot get prescriptions from anyone else but this psychiatrist, you might stop talking about tapering and report you're doing fine on the dose you're taking.

[F14rx]

Not being able to go into withdrawal because i have to fight with the psychiatrist to prove him that the tapering as to be 10%.
It's been 8 months of going back and forth trying to get him to give me the initial prescription so i can start the process.
It's a pain just having to sit down with him and discuss about the different avenues to take.
He comes up with his all of his scientific jargon and try to bedazzle me into all of his readings: although he has a lot of knowledge ( psychiatrist / psycho-pharmacologist)
Every time i mention a study it's refuted with claims that all of those symptoms that i have or people have are not related to the medications,
That all that of this is exaggerated and people who promotes a slow tapering approach are charlatans. 😒
The only thing that he acknowledges is the impact that antidepressant has on the sexual dysfunction, that's it.
''correlation does not men causation'' that's his mantra.
No consideration for the fact that i've been more than 14 years on this crap, : ''you'll probably feel nothing''... ''i do this every day, nobody goes through what your reading about''.
We always end up by arguing and he says : ''your clearly anxious , i don't think your ready for this''... '' I should raise the dosage not diminish it or stop it''.
Some people suggested that i find another doctor,  or try to taper by myself... That his not an option.
If i leave him i'll have to wait a long time to find another psychiatrist, plus no g.p is gonna prescribe me Celexa if they're not aware of my case.
I feel trap and starting to feel as though i'll be on this for the rest of my life with all the bad symptoms your all aware of.
if not, i'll have to accept his 20% reduction rate every month and move on with whatever consequences ahead. 
So much frustrations
😠
Anyway, I'm done repeating myself.

[quetiapineAddict]

i feel you buddy. my ex psychiatrist was the same.

you may want to find a different psychiatrist/therapist.

you should know that there are psychiatrists who will prescribe you with any drug or prescription amount you want.

 

as a sovereign human being who is not considered harmful to your environment you have every right to withdraw from poisonous drugs.

[ChessieCat]

I've merged the new Intro you created with your original Intro.  Each member has only 1 Intro topic where they can ask questions about their own situation and journal their progress.  Please do not create any more Intro topics.  Thank you.

 

Any doctor can prescribe, you don't need to get a script from a psychiatrist.  You might find some helpful tips here about how to deal with medical professionals so you can continue to get what you need to taper:

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

[Altostrata]

F14, you don't have to convince your psychiatrist of anything, and you don't need his permission to taper. He works for you.

 

If you're willing to take the responsibility, you can get your regular 20mg prescription and taper it on your own. That's what most people here are doing.

[F14rx]

 

quietapineaddict  & Altostrata : thanks for the support

I know i could do it on my own, but still, i need a prescription...
No prescription no tapering.

All the medical data of my file are registered on one system that can be easily access through.
by any another doctor, so they will be aware of what i'm taking.

I can't search for another doctor, and I ain't not gonna search for the meds on the street.
Gotta fight for having that prescription, no choice.

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by ChessieCat
fixed up font added spacing

[F14rx]

Well, tomorrow is the big day. 
After a year of talks and meetings with the psychiatrist i finally managed to convince him to make me a Rx for a compound pharmacy.
I'll be lowering the dose of 10% every 3 weeks. Will it be too fast , will i feel something i just dont know.
Also, because of my Dx (CPTSD) i had to go through sessions with the psychologist (6 months).
I would be lying if if i say that i'm not nervous but, after all these years (14) i can't go on taking this pill for no reason.
It never helped me. *
So where i go from here on this forum ?
F

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, F14rx said:

So where i go from here on this forum ?

 

If you are tapering citalopram you continue posting in this topic.  This is your own introductions topic where you can ask questions and journal your progress.

 

That's good to hear that you got what you need.  However, tapering by 10% every three weeks may be too fast.  That averages out to a 13.33% reduction which is 3.33% more than SA's recommended 10% every 4 weeks.

 

SA recommends tapering by no more than 10% of the current dose followed by a hold of about 4 weeks to allow the brain to adapt to not getting as much of the drug.  Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

When the drug is taken away too quickly we can get withdrawal symptoms:  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

I suggest that you keep daily symptom notes on paper to see how a reduction is affecting you.  If you continue to reduce when you have withdrawal symptoms then you could end up suffering badly.  It is better to reduce slower and hold longer if needed than to try and go to fast.  Listen to you body, not the calendar.  Withdrawal Normal Description    Many members find that the lower their dose gets the slower they need to go, reducing less and/or holding longer.  Why taper paper: dose-occupancy curves

 

Recovery isn't linear it happens in a Windows and Waves Pattern

 

When we take a psychiatric drug, we are adding chemical/s to the brain.  The brain then has to change to adapt to getting the chemical/s.  It might have to change something to do with A and then once that change has been made it affects B so another change has to be made and so on down the line.  It is a chain reaction, a domino effect.  That's why it's possible to experience such a vast array of withdrawal symptoms, and they can change, and be of different intensity.

 

The same thing happens when we take the drug away.  These explain it really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

On 8/31/2011 at 5:28 AM, Rhiannon said:

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

AND

 

On 12/4/2015 at 2:41 AM, apace41 said:

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.  

[F14rx]

Thanks for very info ChessieCat
I will see how everything goes, for sure i will be taking notes etc for next 3 weeks.
I know it's a long process but i want to taper off before
the summer because of the heatwaves ( i just cant stand those) ; my goal was 6-7 months (??).
I can change the prescription at any moment one week at advance.
I'll post some updates.
Later

 

[ChessieCat]

Here's a topic which you might find helpful:

 

When to end the taper and jump to zero?

[F14rx]

Hi,
Almost a  week now into the process , last few days were mostly a 6/10 , it comes and goes...
I had one major migraine i really thought i was on the verge of aneurysm - it was that bad - felt like all of my brain was overheating, but eventually fell asleep.
Besides that,  only problem is gastrointestinal discomfort and nausea for the most part.
I've got the feeling i have to stay busy all the time... Winter not the best time for me (between -5 and -20 outside mostly)
I also decided to keep my reading on any subject related to a/d and other psychiatric drugs to a very minimal.
It tends to make me anxious so... Just in case of emergency.
 

[F14rx]

Almost 2 weeks

Besides feeling tired all the time (i never slept like this in the last 14 years !!)
For now, most of the symptoms have to do with with my stomach, bowels,  bloating ,etc
I can feel that the tension and nervousness / agitation starts there.
Edginess usually comes 3hrs after taking the med (?) , i can manage the anxiety
up to the point i take my clonazepam and fall asleep.  It's not easy but i do my best.
It's a day to day situation.  Got to stay busy all the time or else I'll focus on body sensations which is not good.
I think that's the hardest part trying to stay busy but feeling out of motivation and energy.
 

 

[F14rx]

Almost 3 weeks now , end of phase I on tuesday ----­ going to 16 mg
Physically: Always the same symptoms ;  tension in the belly, bloating, everything that has to do with IBS but exponentially,
some twitching, hands shaking..  The worst was an aura without a migraine, i really thought i was loosing it !
Geometrical abstract patterns of all colours in one eye for more than 20 min.
Sleeping, sleeping and more sleeping (Hypersomnia ?)
Psychologically:  Flows of thoughts before sleeping , feeling absent,  some anxiety.

Probably what everyone goes through right ?
 

[F14rx]

Here come's the exponentially gastrointestinal (IBS) problems (mainly constipation)
Doctor told me it would be the contrary (??)
Caught between this tapering and the rebound anxiety / insomnia of clonazepam... eeergh
Btw :
How do we get answers here ?
Where do we go to ask questions besides starting a new topic ?

[ChessieCat]

Your Introduction topic is the place to ask questions about your own situation.

 

I have just checked back through your most recent posts and you haven't asked any specific questions, it's just journaling.

 

I suggest when you want a response to a question that you that you make sure that it is separated from the journaling part of your post so that we can easily see that you are asking a specific question.  Otherwise it can get lost in the wordiness of a post and be missed.

[F14rx]

Phase II of this withdrawal is starting a little rougher.
Felling irritated, impatient, lost of appetite, constipation (tried everything except exercising) and insomnia kicking in.
And when i say insomnia i mean like 1-2 hours of sleep...
I have to go back to bed during the day , i feel like a vampire.

What is a safe to take for sleeping ? I mean like herbal supplement ? 
Seems like everything goes through the same pathway liver / Cytochrome P450 (CYP) / CYP3A4 and CYP2D6 mainly.
So what is safe for one may not be for another ?
Suggestions before they - the doctors - introduce the idea of more drugs  as a solution ?

[ChessieCat]

Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

 

Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Magnesium

Melatonin

[F14rx]

Thnx ChessieCat i will look into it.

 

[F14rx]

1 month today
I'm now convince more than ever that compound pharmacy should be a mandatory alternative offered
to patients who wants to taper off / withdrawal of their antidepressants.
It would alleviate all the apprehensions , the fears and the stress of having to start.  

I wouldn't go as far as to say that i have no symptoms , but,  it's far less that what i expected.
The main problems i have is ; insomnia, gastrointestinal problems, loss of appetite, headaches, and agitation.
I also started having this deep feeling of sadness, and frustration...
I'm sure glad i went through this month went without majors issues.
 

 
 

 

[F14rx]

Ok maybe this is the part where my brain is starting to wonder what the hell is going on.
I feared agitation and tremors but feel so lethargic

Hypersomnia / insomnia on and off - repeat
I feel so foggy , i'm like on a jet lag that wont go away.
Anybody had that ??
Lost of appetite also ?!?
Just a month into this and feels like 3 or 4...
Winter time really not the best time of year to do that.
 

[ChessieCat]

On 1/8/2019 at 9:45 AM, F14rx said:

I'll be lowering the dose of 10% every 3 weeks.

 

Q:  Is citalopram the only drug you are currently taking?

 

If you have been making a 10% reduction of your citalopram every 3 weeks like you said you planned to do in this post, the increase in your symptoms is your brain telling you that you are going too quickly.

 

Everything you have listed as your symptoms are withdrawal symptoms.  Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Please update your drug signature with the dates and the doses you have reduced like this so we can clearly see the reductions you have made:

 

Citalopram:  date 2019, dose; date, dose; date, dose

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

My suggestion would be to updose a small amount.  Depending on when you reduced and by how much, you might find that even 0.5mg might help to reduce your withdrawal symptoms.  The idea isn't to get rid of the withdrawal symptoms completely but to bring them to a bearable level.

 

The other option is to not increase your dose and wait until you stabilise before reducing again.

 

Either way, your brain is telling you it need time to adapt to the lower dose.  Continuing to taper whilst you still have withdrawal symptoms is not a good idea.

 

I suggest you go back and read the information which has been previously given about tapering.

[ChessieCat]

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

[F14rx]

 ChessieCat,
I guessed by now those must be withdrawal symptoms but I was asking if any other users here had the same symptoms with Celexa.
There's a reference list with the common symptoms / F.I.N.I.S.H. (Glenmullen one,Breggin and such) and then there's the one where
we enter the Twilight Zone. Some of the symptoms aren't on that list , that's why i was asking.

** read previous messages i'm on clonazepam also (0,75mg) **
 

[ChessieCat]

Please update your drug signature, and include how often you take Clonazepam.   Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature :

 

Clonazepam
2003 to 2013 : 0,5 mg

2013 to 2017 : 0,75 mg

 

 

Withdrawal symptoms are not specific to a particular drug.  Google search results:  to find members taking Celexa /  citalopram:  survivingantidepressants.org celexa citalopram.

 

If you have a symptom which I haven't posted a link to below, use google and add survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.  I did try searching for twilight and there were no results.  You could also check out the topics in this forum:  Symptoms and self-care

 

severe-fatigue-tiredness

 

hypersomnia-sleeping-a-lot

 

search results for sleep

 

brain-fog-blank-mind-comprehension-cognitive-and-memory-problems

 

weight-gain-weight-loss-appetite-changes-hunger

 

anhedonia-apathy-demotivation-emotional-numbness

 

derealization-or-depersonalization-dr-and-dp