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F14rx : withdrawal ahead


F14rx

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  • Moderator Emeritus
2 hours ago, F14rx said:

 ChessieCat,
I guessed by now those must be withdrawal symptoms but I was asking if any other users here had the same symptoms with Celexa.
There's a reference list with the common symptoms / F.I.N.I.S.H. (Glenmullen one,Breggin and such) and then there's the one where
we enter the Twilight Zone. Some of the symptoms aren't on that list , that's why i was asking.

** read previous messages i'm on clonazepam also (0,75mg) **
 

 

By "enter the Twilight Zone", do you mean depersonalization / derealization (DP/DR)? ChessieCat already kindly linked you this thread, but I'm going to target one of my favorite posts there because it's such a good breakdown of what exactly DP/DR is:

 

Depersonalization / Derealization (DP/DR)

 

Some of these symptoms are likely from your antidepressant withdrawal and some may be side effects of the clonazepam.

 

You may be getting inter-dose withdrawal from the clonazepam. What time(s) of day do you take each of your drugs?

 

You state you are reducing every 3 weeks. How long are you holding? 

 

 

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Hi Shep,
By Twilight Zone I didnt specifically meant depersonalization.
Though sometimes i do get foggy and jet lagged like.
What i meant is , that there's the known symptoms and they are still unknown symptoms.
It's not as clear and precise as some of the references we all see.
I think reaching out to each other and describing precisely what are the symptoms should able us to link the new symptoms and gather more empirical data.
A quantitative study with a precise questionnaire of related symptoms would greatly help the research.
Is it linked to another medical conditions, other dx, other meds etc... 


As for the clonazepam issue, it's a blade with two edges; on one side it does diminish the anxiety for a short period of time ,
but on the other side once your body gets accommodated to it your just feeding the dependency pattern.
From there comes the rebound anxiety and insomnia.
Am i battling two demons at once ? I dont know.
I would be incline to say yes as it has to do with two specific regions of the brain overworking.
Here is my pill taking routine : Celexa at 9 pm, then 3 hours later i take the clonazepam

You can write to me in private for me info.
 

2003 to 2007 : Citalopram 40 mg

2007 to 2011 : Citalopram 30 mg
2011  - 2018  : 20 mg
Clonazepam
2003 to 2013 : 0,5 mg

2013 to 2019 : 0,75 mg
Citalopram Withdrawal from 20 mg
10% every 3 weeks / Since 8th of January '19
8th January 2019 = 18 mg
29th of January = 16 mg
 

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  • Moderator Emeritus
25 minutes ago, F14rx said:

Here is my pill taking routine : Celexa at 9 pm, then 3 hours later i take the clonazepam

 

You may be getting some interdose withdrawal symptoms from the clonazepam, which has a half-life of 18 - 50 hours. 

 

If you wish to have the staff check this for you, please start a drug and symptoms journal using the format listed below. 

 

Please also include any supplements you are taking and the hours you sleep at night. 

 

On 9/27/2016 at 2:49 PM, Altostrata said:

In the course of discussion in your Introductions forum topic, you may be asked to keep notes on paper of your daily symptom pattern, including when you take your drugs, their dosages, and any symptoms. We ask this because there may be something we can do to reduce the symptoms.

 

What we need to see for every single day over several days is what symptoms you get before and after you take your drugs. If you're not taking any drugs and have withdrawal symptoms, we still need to see your symptom pattern throughout the day:

 

The time of day, dosage, and severity of symptoms are essential information. Include

 

- Time and dosage for all drugs taken throughout the day, psychiatric and non-psychiatric.

- Following each dose, note any symptoms. If you are having a reaction to the drug, it may take hours for a symptom to show up -- that's why we ask you to keep notes all day long.

- If you're not taking any drugs, your symptoms throughout the day.

- Your sleep pattern. Since so many drugs disturb sleep, if you find you're waking in the middle of the night, it could be from a drug you took earlier in the evening. If you're not taking any drugs, there may be ways you can improve your sleep.

And so forth. A diary, in chronological order, looking something like this:
 
6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

 

30 minutes ago, F14rx said:

You can write to me in private for me info.

 

We do not give tapering advice via the PM system. It's important that all of the staff have access to your information. Otherwise we risk giving conflicting tapering advice. 

 

Please continue to use this thread to document your taper and to ask questions. 

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, after a long reflection i decided to maintain the Celexa to 16mg for the 2 next weeks.
- I felt i had to give my brain a break. Major problems with appetite and sleeping. -
It really makes me mad (and sad). I really lost so much because of this drug and now I'm losing time again.
 Btw
What is it about this tiredness ? Any one had that at the beginning of their withdrawal ?
How come i feel like sleeping all day ?
How long does that phase last ? 

2003 to 2007 : Citalopram 40 mg

2007 to 2011 : Citalopram 30 mg
2011  - 2018  : 20 mg
Clonazepam
2003 to 2013 : 0,5 mg

2013 to 2019 : 0,75 mg
Citalopram Withdrawal from 20 mg
10% every 3 weeks / Since 8th of January '19
8th January 2019 = 18 mg
29th of January = 16 mg
 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

 

50 minutes ago, F14rx said:

Major problems with appetite and sleeping. -

 

Every three weeks is too fast.  We recommend 10% of current dose every four weeks at a minimum.   That extra week can cumulatively make a lot of difference.  

 

Don't worry about losing time.  Going too fast will take longer than a slow taper if you have to updose, acclimate to that updose, etc.  Your body can't be rushed.

 

Tiredness/fatigue is a common withdrawal symptom.  There is no specific time that it lasts.  Everyone is different.  

Gridley Introduction

 

Lexapro 20 mg since 2004.  Begin Brassmonkey Slide Taper Jan. 2017.   

End 2017 year 1 of taper at 9.25mg 

End 2018 year 2 of taper at 4.1mg

End 2019 year 3 of taper at 1.0mg  

Oct. 30, 2020  Jump to zero from 0.025mg.  Current dose: 0.000mg

3 year, 10 month taper is 100% complete.

 

Ativan 1 mg to 1.875mg 1986-2020, two CT's and reinstatements

Nov. 2020, 7-week Ativan-Valium crossover to 18.75mg Valium

Feb. 2021, begin 10%/4 week taper of 18.75mg Valium 

End 2021  year 1 of Valium taper at 6mg

End 2022 year 2 of Valium taper at 2.75mg 

End 2023 year 3 of Valium taper at 1mg

Jan. 24, 2024: Hold at 1mg and shift to Imipramine taper.

Taper is 95% complete.

 

Imipramine 75 mg daily since 1986.  Jan.-Sept. 2016 tapered to 14.4mg  

March 22, 2022: Begin 10%/4 week taper

Aug. 5, 2022: hold at 9.5mg and shift to Valium taper

Jan. 24, 2024: Resume Imipramine taper.  Current dose as of Feb. 22: 7.6mg

Taper is 90% complete.  

  

Supplements: multiple, quercetin, omega-3, vitamins C, E and D3, magnesium glycinate, probiotics, zinc, melatonin .3mg, anti-candida, iron, serrapeptase, nattokinase


I am not a medical professional and this is not medical advice but simply information based on my own experience, as well as other members who have survived these drugs.

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Hi Gridley,
I don't get it reducing faster is the the #1 method actually used by most g.p's and psychiatrists.
I know that everybody has a different metabolism but wow, I've just reduced from 20 to 16 mg !!
Probably means I'm a fast metabolizer.
https://genesight.com/fast-slow-or-in-between-how-your-genes-affect-medication-success
I mean, it's not as bad, but, the 2 majors ones are feeling tired and not much appetite.
Reducing the from 10% of the last dose with take an eternity to taper off and would not be approved by the
pharmacist for the compound formula.
I contacted many of them to get this prescription and they all said the same thing:
'' Your brain won't notice a 0.4 mg difference''. I could reduce to every month, but, that's about it...
Or else no more prescription from the psychiatrist. 

2003 to 2007 : Citalopram 40 mg

2007 to 2011 : Citalopram 30 mg
2011  - 2018  : 20 mg
Clonazepam
2003 to 2013 : 0,5 mg

2013 to 2019 : 0,75 mg
Citalopram Withdrawal from 20 mg
10% every 3 weeks / Since 8th of January '19
8th January 2019 = 18 mg
29th of January = 16 mg
 

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  • Administrator
4 hours ago, F14rx said:

Hi Gridley,
I don't get it reducing faster is the the #1 method actually used by most g.p's and psychiatrists.
I know that everybody has a different metabolism but wow, I've just reduced from 20 to 16 mg !!
Probably means I'm a fast metabolizer.
https://genesight.com/fast-slow-or-in-between-how-your-genes-affect-medication-success
I mean, it's not as bad, but, the 2 majors ones are feeling tired and not much appetite.
Reducing the from 10% of the last dose with take an eternity to taper off and would not be approved by the
pharmacist for the compound formula.
I contacted many of them to get this prescription and they all said the same thing:
'' Your brain won't notice a 0.4 mg difference''. I could reduce to every month, but, that's about it...
Or else no more prescription from the psychiatrist. 

 

The reason this site exists is because people are getting withdrawal syndrome from the methods actually used by most gps and psychiatrists. If those methods worked, there would be no reason for us to put all this time and effort into this Web site.

 

You got withdrawal symptoms from reducing too fast, as we warned you. This doesn't mean you are a fast metabolizer, it means you reduced too fast for your nervous system.

 

A pharmacist does not have to approve of your tapering method. The pharmacist fills the prescription from the doctor. If pharmacists were good sources for tapering advice, we'd send people to pharmacists and close this Web site.

 

If a doctor or pharmacist tells you, "Your brain won't notice a 0.4 mg difference'', please ask them what they will do if you get withdrawal symptoms and let us know what this magic formula is.

 

If you can't get Celexa compounded, you can make your own liquid, read this again Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

Very sorry it will take so long for you to go off Celexa by tapering more gradually. Please take up this argument with your own nervous system.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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@Altostrata
I see,
i guess i should have written that i don't agree with most of what i was putting forward.
When i quote what the pharmacist says it doesn't mean i agree with him at all.
It's already very challenging to deal with them, same for the psychiatrist.
All of this is new to me, maybe I'm just having a hard time coping with the fact and accepting that this will take longer...
i thought that this was the slowest i could go.
BTW : i value the work your doing here or else i wouldn't be coming back.

2003 to 2007 : Citalopram 40 mg

2007 to 2011 : Citalopram 30 mg
2011  - 2018  : 20 mg
Clonazepam
2003 to 2013 : 0,5 mg

2013 to 2019 : 0,75 mg
Citalopram Withdrawal from 20 mg
10% every 3 weeks / Since 8th of January '19
8th January 2019 = 18 mg
29th of January = 16 mg
 

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  • Moderator Emeritus

You might find it helpful to write a script and rehearse what you are going to say.  Be calm, gentle but assertive.  You are the customer, it is your body.  Use words like I'd like to try this, or I'd prefer to do it this way.  If a suggestion is made that you don't want to follow, say I'd like to think about it before making a decision.

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?


What should I expect from my doctor about withdrawal symptoms?

* NO LONGER ACTIVE on SA *

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:  (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq  on 13th November 2021

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

Post 0 updates start here    My tapering program     My Intro (goes to tapering graph)

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

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  • Administrator

Be sure to read Tips for tapering off Celexa (citalopram)

 

You don't need a doctor or pharmacist to agree with your tapering plan, all you need is a prescription for Celexa.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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F14rx, I have read some of your thread and am having a very similar experience trying to go off celexa. It has taken me a year to go down about 8 mg. I am not able to taper 10% and am using a variation of the slide method. I have celexa 20 mg tablets and celexa liquid. The liquid is somewhat expensive so you could make your own from the tablets if you want to. You don't need a new prescription for each dose. I take 1/2 of a 20 mg tablets and liquid to make the extra 2 mg to make a total of 12 mg. My doctor is aware I am tapering and I meet with her frequently to update her on my progress but I don't call her with every change. Just get the prescription and taper listening to your body. It is not practical to get each dose change compounded. You may not really know ahead of time how your body will react.

Start citalopram late 2004 20 mg/d, tapered to 10 mg 1xd on for several years

Citalopram 5 mg 1xd, occasional attempt to taper; off citalopram 4 months Aug. 2016

Venlafaxine 37.5 mg 2 months Nov, Dec 2016 stopped ct and change to citalopram 10 mg/d severe withdrawal with daily nausea 

Citalopram 20mg/day April 2017 - Feb 21, 2018, Citalopram 15 mg/day Feb. 21 - 3/3/2018

Citalopram 20 mg/day 3/4/18, Citalopram 18 mg 1xd 3/5 - 4/1,

Citalopram 17 mg 4/2, 16.6 mg 4/16, 16.2 mg 4/23, 16 mg 5/14, 15.8 mg 5/18, 15.6 mg 5/22, 15.4 mg 5/29, 15.2 mg 6/5, 15 mg 6/12,

14.6 mg 7/21, 14.2 mg 7/28, 14 mg 8/4, 13.6mg 8/18, 13.2 mg 8/25, 13 mg 9/1, 12.6 mg 9/22, 9/25 13 mg, 11/9 12.8 mg, back to 13 mg after a few days. 1/9/19 12.8 mg, 1/14 12.6 mg, 1/20 12.4 mg, 1/27 12.2mg, 2/4 12 mg, 2/24 11.8 ,3/1 11.6, 3/6 11.4, 3/11 11.2, 3/14 11, by 4/28 10 mg.

Nov. 1 9.8 mg, Nov 8 9.6 mg, Nov 22 9.5 mg, slow taper down to 9 mg 1/27/2020. Slow taper down to 8 mg Sept 1 2020, decrease by approx. 10% a month to 5 mg/day Jan. 2021.

 

Supplements/other: multivitamin, vitamin d 2000 u 1xd,, melatonin 0.75 mg mg 1xd prn, magnesium, Propranolol Sr 60 mg/day Feb. 2016 (?), alprazolam 0.125 mg prn  (rarely taken) approx. <2 yrs 

Change to famotidine 20 mg prn, cetirizine 10 mg prn or loratadine 10 mg prn for allergy sx.

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Chessiecat ; 
I don't like to put white gloves each time i have to express myself, therefore, it can come out rather impulsively at times.
I apologize for that, but this is the calmer version of me at the moment.

 

Altostrata : 
If its still not clear here's the picture :Took me one year to finally convince the psychiatrist to go on with the withdrawal the way i wanted ;

tapering with a compound pharmacy so he could ''accept'' to write me the prescription.  I had to do the research, come up with the information and

convince him why i wanted this to be done that way. I had 4 meetings with both a clinician nurse , my psychologist and the psychiatrist.  4 meeting in one year.
He finally decided to go on with it but said he would only be a consultant, I'm not his patient ( he made it very clear).
The last time I've seen him was back in November of last year. He went on and talked directly with the pharmacist to prepare the Rx with what i asked him for :
reducing the Celexa of 10% every 3 weeks ; that was our final agreement, last call no more negotiations.

So to go back to him and ask him to change the prescription (which i did last week) is very complicated, he
has over 1000 patients so it takes awhile to get something from him.
Also, me and him are just on the border of tolerating each other, he knows my view about his profession and what he does so he's willing to help for now.
But the moment i admit i have some difficulties and
if he gets irritated , he could decide a) to stop the treatment and put me back on the initial dosage
b) worse either introducing fluoxetine c) decide not filling prescription anymore.
To change psychiatrist , It could take close to a year to see another psychiatrist - that is the waiting list period.
As for my g.p he's the most out of touch and off topic person with mental health issues i had to deal with in the last few years so, the more i can avoid him the better.
Each time i call the pharmacist he seems exasperated : ''oh that guy again '' '' what's the big fuss now ?''
Also, i couldn't walk in to any g.p's office and asked them for an antidepressant without ever meeting them, as every medical files on the system that shows your history.
That being said, Shep ( thread above) came up with a pretty accurate picture of the present situation.
I have a feeling I'm battling 2 demons at once :
the withdrawal itself + the pernicious side effects of the clonazepam ( ex: rebound anxiety, insomnia).
I don't feel like increasing the dosage of citalopram.
So all and all It's a touchy situation.
Either i go on with the program and deal with all of this, or go back to my initial dosage of Celexa.

 

Snowyowl16
I don't intend starting to crush pills and improvising as it would add up more stress to the present situation.
And the pharmacy doesn't have a oral suspension version of citalopram.
The best i can do is to continue with the compounded formula and modify it if necessary 1 week in advance before they prepare it.
 

2003 to 2007 : Citalopram 40 mg

2007 to 2011 : Citalopram 30 mg
2011  - 2018  : 20 mg
Clonazepam
2003 to 2013 : 0,5 mg

2013 to 2019 : 0,75 mg
Citalopram Withdrawal from 20 mg
10% every 3 weeks / Since 8th of January '19
8th January 2019 = 18 mg
29th of January = 16 mg
 

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