hannahG: Scared and confused

[Jorge24]

2 hours ago, nz11 said:

You are going to be okay Hannah 

Well done on making a decision in what is clearly a most difficult time.

As Lex says we are wishing this goes well for you. 

Many people can take several months to stabilize after a ri.   But you have already said that day 1 you feel somewhat better. That's a great sign.

Don't be hard on yourself about ri you have to do what you have to do. Don't feel a failure about this, the only failure here is your doctor.

   

 

Your gonna be okay we all going to be ok it's just a matter of time. I feel the same way you do and i know it's hard but we're gonna get better that's what i keep reminding myself. Drinks lots of water, vitamins some oat milk. Message me if you wanna talk am in the same boat as you right now.

God bless 

[hannahG]

Thanks everyone for your help. I ended up reinstating 2.5mg and am on day 5 or 6. I feel so much better emotionally but physically some weird things are happening (which I think were starting to occur before reinstatement but can't be 100% sure. Feeling really super paranoid that it was the wrong thing to do? But I'm more paranoid that I have permanent brain damage. Here are my symptomms:

Weird brain sensations

Metallica taste in mouth

Disturbing, intrusive thoughts

Intrusive memories (good, neutral and bad; all with no obvious trigger)

Sense of not knowing where I am

Time travelling - sometimes all of a sudden in my mind I feel as if it's 2011 or earlier. It's really scary. 

Not recognizing people properly, mostly only having a sense or  who they were years and years ago. For example when I think of my sister I can only see her as her 16 year old self so many years ago.  

 

I'm really scared I won't heal or I've made it worse by reinstating.  But I feel so so so much Beyer emotionally for doing so. 

 

[nz11]

It’s been a week since ri how are you feeling Hannah

a little better I hope.

[hannahG]

Hi nz11,

 

Not doing very well. I have a really strange tightness in my brain. Tightness and/or pressure. I also have strange sensations in my brain, similar to brain zaps, but they aren't brain zaps at all. It's as if u can physically feel my brain not working as it should.  My thoughts are racing a million miles an hour, I can't catch one thought before the next one. It's non stop and I can't slow down. I also can't seem to focus my brain as hard as I try. I'm really worried that I'm going to snap/lose control. I feel so revved up.  Cant feel my emotions very well (perhaps feeling a bit hypomanic). I'm not sure if this is withdrawal, RI or the fact I took a couple doses of an antibiotic called erythromycin for a skin infection (which I promptly stopped after two days in fear it was causing this, however it's been three days and the symptoms haven't gone away). Really scared.

[Kristine]

Hi Hanna, I'm sorry you are not getting a moments peace at the moment.  It will pass.  The symptoms you descibe are very familiar to me.  I used to feel like a thick rubber band was wrapped around my head and a metal plate was stuck behind my eyes.

 

28 minutes ago, hannahG said:

I also have strange sensations in my brain, similar to brain zaps, but they aren't brain zaps at all.

I think I understand this feeling.  I get a fizzy, flickering, jolting sensation in my brain but I'm happy to report this has improved and is much less intense.  It does ease. All the other symptoms you are describing I have also experienced.  It certainly sounds like withdrawal to me... just trying to give you a glimmer of hope Hanna...that's very important to get through these giant waves.  Sending you healing. K 😊

[Rosetta]

2 hours ago, hannahG said:

Hi nz11,

 

 My thoughts are racing a million miles an hour, I can't catch one thought before the next one. It's non stop and I can't slow down. I also can't seem to focus my brain as hard as I try. I'm really worried that I'm going to snap/lose control. I feel so revved up.  Cant feel my emotions very well (perhaps feeling a bit hypomanic). I'm not sure if this is withdrawal, RI or the fact I took a couple doses of an antibiotic called erythromycin for a skin infection (which I promptly stopped after two days in fear it was causing this, however it's been three days and the symptoms haven't gone away). Really scared.

 

Hannah,

 

I'm so sorry these meds have caused you to withdraw in this way.   I don't know whether the RI or the antibiotic could cause your racing thoughts, but I know that WD can as I experienced the same.  All I can say is that this symptom will stop.  You have to remember this: it is a normal part of WD.  It happens to some people and not others.  You are not going to lose control, but it certainly does feel that way, I know.   It might stop or slow down at any time.  You must remember that and not even think of giving up.  You will eventually stop having these racing thoughts.  I am proof.  I never figured out a way to make them slow down, but maybe someone on this forum did.  I'll look around for you and let you know if I find anything.

 

Rosetta

[nz11]

Hi Hannah thanks for taking the time to udpdate.

Even though you report not doing very well I didn't see the 's' word so maybe that's an improvement.

 

1. Well hypomania is a wdl symptom that is correct.

2. Your words of the revved up feeling reminds me of Healy's quote that used the analogy that ssris affect on the brain were like a revved up formula one car in a suburban street and in another I recall he likened it to a big articulated truck in a suburban street  he explained it by saying ssris are highly overpowered for what they are wanted for. Maybe its also like  putting the car into neutral and then flooring the accelerator. 

Your symptoms appear to have changed from your 4 of jan desperate reinstatement post to the one above when you say you are now taking 2.5mg daily and feeling revved up. So maybe its due to the ri. You brain is not used being flooded with a  constant amount daily for a while now so it is going to have some adjustments to make. 

3. These drugs are also known to react with antibiotics. Did you have these symptoms before you took the ab? I'm not so sure this is the cause though.

 

I agree with Rosetta and Kristine I think this will pass as things settle down.

 

Are you able to update your drug sig. ? Are you taking any other 'rescue doses ' of other drugs at this time? that you have forgotten to mention.

Wishing you strength and stability.

nz11

Can anyone recall where that Healy quote was from...was it the document given to member? SG? I think from memory it was. I guess I will have to go look it up.

 

[Rosetta]

Hi Hannah,

 

I think I have ideas for you to try.

 

For racing thoughts:

 

Weighted blankets for racing thoughts.  If it works for physical Akathisia maybe it will work for mental Akathisia of the mind.  I didn't try this, but my experience with a heavy weighted heating pad tells me it could be useful.

 

1. Rocking

2. Heavy heating pads

I used these two resources when I had racing thoughts and a feeling that my mind was vibrating with energy.  I did not have physical Akathisia.  I didn't pace, but maybe I should have for mental Akathisia.  People with physical Akathisia tend to pace.  I had what I have heard called Akathisia of the mind.  You may be having a milder version of Akathisia of the mind.  I'm not sure, but I believe there is a symptom of WD that is a sort of continuum of an extreme form of anxiety.  The continuum begins with thoughts that are anxious and it includes racing thoughts.  It can be, at its worst, highest end, an indescribable feeling that I try to describe as my mind vibrating with thought and emotion.  I would rock myself and sometimes my husband would rock me.  I also felt calmed by my heavy microwaveable heating pad that fits around my shoulders.  I thought the heat helped me (I was using it for pain in my shoulder and neck), but it makes sense to me that the weight of the pad helped me feel better, too.

 

3. Bouncey exercise ball -- this is recommended on this site in a post in the thread about Weighted blankets.  They are occupational therapy resources used for autistic people.  We are suffering a condition in our brains that might have some similarities to those endured by autistic children?  Some of those kids swing on swings, rock themselves, and like bouncy balls. 

 

Maybe you will find other ideas that are used for autistic children on the Internet or in other threads here.  Type

" survivingantidepressants autistic autism" into Google to find info on this site.

 

A note of caution about the bouncey ball: I found exercise too stimulating when I had Akathisia of the mind.  I was jogging a mile a day to counteract morning cortisol spikes, and my Akathisia of the mind became very intense.  I would feel better for a few hours after jogging, but I believe the two were related.  After I stopped exercising the Akathisia continued to be a problem for a while.  I read on this site that exercise should be gentle such as walking or yoga (no inversions).  That makes sense to me after what I've experienced.  Therefore, I wouldn't overdo it with the bouncey ball.

 

For morning cortisol spikes I found a sleeping mask helpful.  The blackout curtains did not work well enough.

 

I hope you are feeling better today.

 

Rosetta

[Meeto]

Hannah what you're going through is definitely the med withdrawal. I have the exact same symptoms you have.

[hannahG]

Everyone here is so very kind. Its so nice to be a part of such a supportive community. Thank you all for your replies and sorry I went AWOL. I have not been having the easiest time as of late and I had a lot of stress going on job-wise. Month 5 off my medication has been the worst so far too symptom wise. 

I never did continue on with my RI but wonder if I should have. I took about 6 days worth of 2.5mgs in early Jan. I was having awful symptoms already and I wasnt sure what was causing what. One symptom I know I had from RI was terrible vertigo and strange electric shock sensations in my brain. That freaked me out and i stopped my RI.  Potenitally I had started off on too high of a dose though and I should have started my RI between 0.5-1mg?

This last week I have been having pins and needles in my hands and in my face. I have also been having daily migraines which has been really scary.  Im wanting to try RI again at 0.5mg. What do you all think?

 

[LexAnger]

Are you feeling any better overall being out of the worst month 5?

inreally hope so!

 

hug,

lex

[hannahG]

I am no better unfortunately.  Much worse..

 

[hannahG]

what do people think about RI 0.5mg? Thanks in advance

[Rosetta]

Hi Hannah, I'm sorry you aren't feeling well.  I wish I knew the answer to your question about reinstating, but a Mod may be along soon to help, I hope. -- Rosetta

[hannahG]

Hi everyone. 

I reinstated at 2.5mg.

I wonder if its normal that escitalopram all of a sudden gives me the worst vetigo/odd brain sensations. I never had these symptoms when starting it before (except last time i tried RI) and i just dont know if i should stick it out and hope they pass. I seem to have much more normal sleep on escitalopram and sleep has been such a big issue for me since coming off that I would quite like to get it stabilized while i recover from my benzo wd symptoms

[hannahG]

Im not sure how to get advice on this forum - how can i stop my post from getting lost?

[ChessieCat]

Sorry your posts got missed.  Sometimes the site can be very busy.  SA is staffed by unrostered volunteers who are experiencing their own withdrawal and life issues and help as they are able.  Some of us also work.

 

Please update your drug signature whenever you make a change.  The mods need to be able to see your drug history at a glance and not have to read back through your posts to get the information.  Thank you.  Click on this link and remember to save the changes:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

• August 25th 2017 - Jan 3rd 2017: Took a couple of 'one off' doses of 5mg during this time period - unsure specific dates

• Jan 3rd 2017 - Jan 8th 2017: Attempted RI at 2.5mg- not sure if unsuccessful or just too high a dose to start with
• Jan 8th 2017 - Present: drug free

I think you may have typed 2017 when you mean 2018 in your signature.

 

You have just reinstated 2.5mg.  If you have only taken 1 or 2 doses you could start taking 0.5mg or 1mg.  It is better to start lower and increase by tiny amounts if necessary.

[hannahG]

Thank you ChessieCat

I appreciate the work of all the mods here. I was just panicked and didnt know what to do.

I have continued on at 2.5mg. I hope that is okay and no one will criticise me for that. I feel marginally better mentally.

My concern however is the sxs. When i started escitalopram in the past (so before i withdrew in august last year) i never had vertigo or funny brain sensations as start up side effects. These symptoms appeared when  I tried to reinstate last time and also again in the last few days with the current reinstatement attempt. Im worried that these side effects mean im damaging my brain beyond repair? I want to continue but am i risking everything by doing this. Is it possible these symtoms will abate?? How long should i give these symtpoms? 

 

[hannahG]

The vertigo is so bad i feel like im on a boat! and ive only had three doses!! I feel so much better mentally so im torn about what to do. Do you think this might subside? I hate to think i might have to go back to how i was feeling before reinstating. Maybe i just have different start up side effects this time around - its just strange because i cant find weird head sensations (like brain zaps but also not brain zaps) as a side effect from starting anywhere on the internet???

[Rosetta]

Hi Hannah,

 

I hope you are feeling a bit better.  I feel better in the afternoon and evenings just about every day.  It will get better.  Healing isn't linear.  You may feel worse for many days and then have a good day or two.  Each person's journey is different.  What (and when) something happens to one person means nothing as to whether that will happen to you.  So, don't let another person's story scare you.  It's all gong to be ok.  Try to believe that.  I think I have suffered more worrying about things that have not happened than from the Withdrawal itself.  

 

Recently on my thread I posted some links to calming techniques.  You should check them out.  They are Chessiecat's favorite links for anxiety and panic.  I'll try to post them here for you. They won't work the first time you try, but don't get discouraged.  You have to practice using the techniques fir a while before you can break the anxiety loop.  Good luck.

 

Anxiety links:

 

Audio:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)
 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes
 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

Also lots of videos - just go to YouTube and type in Claire Weekes

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

Peace,

Rosetta

[LexAnger]

Hi hannahg, 

I'm sorry you get the strange head sensation from ri lex. 

 

It happened to me when I updosed lex in 2014, I think it is some type of parenthesis.  Mine started with bugs crawling, then morphed to various different strange sensations including pins needles, numb, silver, picking, squeezing, twisting, all in brain and entire head. They stayed with me all these years very severe.

 

I'm now 5 months off, l I just started feeling some ofvthese sxs lifting here and there but still quite bad sometimes.

[hannahG]

Rosetta thank you. That's very kind.

I will make sure to check out the links.

 

Lexanger. 

That scares me a lot. 

 

Maybe a mod can advise me on whether to continue when I'm feeling these side effects.

[LexAnger]

Oh sorry that was not my intention. Just want to share my experience. I don't know anyone else had any of these or as bad as mine, so most probably it won't happen to you. Only saw your post asking about these sensations so decided to share.

[JamesF]

Hi Hannah,

 

Onset effects are normal during reinstatement. They are often more intense because the nervous system is in a hypersensitive and exhausted state, so the introduction of any new substance is felt as an "impact".

 

I think it's important to be patience here and hold it steady for a month or so at least. I've reinstated several times, and it seemed to take about half as long to stabilize as the time I had worsened. So if you were off 5 months, it might take 2.5 months or so to reach stability. The key is to give your body stability of the dose every day while it's adapting. More symptoms are usually not a sign that you should quickly reduce or increase, but instead are a sign that you should probably hold until they diminish and you stabilize.

 

For me, symptoms immediately after reinstatement also worsened for 3-4 weeks or so, before improving ever since then. So if you have a bit of a rough ride in early reinstatement, it doesn't indicate that it's a bad idea, but may instead just be expected and you will improve. The fact that your sleep has already improved is an extremely good sign, I would say.

 

If you see my intro thread, Ive documented the process or reinstating during severe withdrawals. I was 8 months off the medication and mostly bedridden or confined to a darkened room due to symptoms. I was extremely scared of adding anything to my system, since I was already in a place of extreme fragility and suffering. It did get a little worse to start with, but from then on it definitely improved. Maybe it would give you reassurance to read how the process was for me:

 

 

So overall, I'd advise you to hold steady on 2.5 for a month. I'd say sleep improvement is a very positive sign. I'd also say not to worry about slight changes or waves of symptoms, since this is expected during onset. And lastly, I'd say try some of the alternative therapies or techniques like meditation and tapping. Overall, an attitude that you are healing and stabilizing. And that there may be waves and bad days during this process, but you're on your way. 

 

Take care

[hannahG]

That was extremely informative thank you so much for this. I appreciate it  

 

I do wonder though if I should try a but less to start like was suggested? Maybe 1.5mg? 

 

Thank you again. Trying to speed write this as my phone is dying!

[ChessieCat]

Because you are feeling some improvement that usually means that reinstatement is working.  However, my personal opinion is that I think you should be lowering your dose.  I think the worst thing you can do at this stage is to stop taking the drug completely.

 

As for the dose, you could try 1.5mg and see how you feel on that dose.  It takes about 4 days for a dose change to get to full state in the blood and a bit longer for it to register in the brain.

[hannahG]

Thank you ChessieCat.

 

I followed you your advice and dropped back to 1.25mg

 

No vertigo today so perhaps this is a more appropriate dose.

 

Is it true it might take months for RI to really work for me in terms of full stabilisation ?

 

 

[ChessieCat]

We can't say how long it will take for you to stabilise because it depends on many factors.  You need to listen to your body.  It is best to keep notes either on paper or using the withdrawal spreadsheets in the Glenmullen link below so that you can see the progress you are making.  It is better to hold for longer and ensure that you are stable than to try and reduce again too quickly.  You are possibly looking at holding for about 3 months minimum.  After you reach the time when you feel that you are stable it can be a good idea to hold for at least another month.

 

With my own taper I was going okay but when I got to 50mg (which was a tablet therefore cheaper and convenient) I did a 3 month hold and then again at 20mg I had capsules left so I held for 7 weeks.  Even though things are going well now (I am at 11mg) I am seriously thinking of holding for at least 2 months when I get to 10mg.

 

Keep Notes on Paper

 

Rate Symptoms Daily to Check Patterns and Progress

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Stabilising After a Reduction - What Does That Mean?

Withdrawal Normal Description

 

Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

[Rosetta]

Hi, Hannah, Hang in there!!  It will get better. -- Rosetta

[hannahG]

Thank you so much rosetta 

 

This is such a wonderful, supportive place. I'm so grateful for all the support.

 

I am a few days into my reinstatement and last night I had my first almost normal sleep!!! A couple of times I woke up as it felt like I stop breathing in my sleep and I suddenly needed air. It could just be in my head though. Whatever it is, it's an odd feeling.

 

I actually think in starting to feel a lot better mentally too. I still feel like I've got ways to go - but compared to before RI I am feeling a lot of improvement. I hope it continues.

 

[Gridley]

Those are very encouraging signs the RI is working.

[Rosetta]

Super news!

 

I had that breathing issue, and sometimes when I was awake, too.  I would suddenly need a deep breath, and I didn't realize it until my body was taking one.  It went away after a while.  

[hannahG]

I believe i am starting to feel a little better every day. I hope that it continues. 

With that being said, I have a question. The last two months i was getting a lot worse in my withdrawal. My biggest symptom was intrusive memories and feeling like i was a teenager again in every way. I felt like a time traveler. My reactions and feelings were even consistent with that time in my life (btw has anyone else had this?). I am still feeling that way a bit - maybe just not as bad. I am still desperately hoping that this particular symptom improves as i continue my RI. Anyway my question is, if i taper off again more slowly, say in 6 months time, am i likely to face all this again? 

[hannahG]

Is there any place on these forums that deals with RI specifically.  I'm anxious to know if I might keep improving every week with mine.

[Rosetta]

 

Hi Hannah,

 

Im so glad you are feeling better! 

 

I had a period of time last Fall when I felt that I was a little girl -- about 5-8 years old or so, and I was scared and wanting to have my grandparents who took care of me at that age.  It was really heartbreaking; I tear up just thinking about it.  Other people have related having similar symptoms of "time travel," but I can't remember who.  I would hope that when you taper all your symptoms will be a lot less intense if you are decreasing slowly enough.  I don't have any experience with tapering myself.

[hannahG]

Rosetta isnt it strange that we time travel this way? I have found it incredibly distressing. I am stuck at a particular age too -  When I was 18/19 and I was feeling very confused and hurt. It was a painful time in my life, although i wouldnt say necessarily traumatic in the way we usually consider trauma. I also have intrusive memories from all times in my life, however I am definitely predominantly 'stuck' feeling/reliving the time when i was 18/19.

Did this symptom end up just passing on its own for you?