Rosetta: cold switch May 2011 & too fast taper Feb 2017

[Erell]

On 12/3/2021 at 10:24 PM, Rosetta said:

Its slow, but I’m very grateful that meltdowns are very rare, and the worst is over.  I no longer fear going back into acute withdrawal as long as I am careful not to take the wrong antibiotic.

Thank you for this update Rosetta, that's wonderful to read.
I'm happy that you don't fear acute withdrawal anymore, and sure wish  that this whole experience will soon be a distant memory for you. 
Thank you for keeping us informed ❤️ 

[Rosetta]

Here is a copy of something I wrote to someone today.  Another of my attempts to warn of the unexpected pitfalls of healing from WD:
 

I wanted to welcome you, and say that you will heal.  It’s going to take some time.  It’s a very difficult journey.  Most people, it seems, heal faster than I did.  
 

The most important thing I can tell you is to avoid all new drugs as much as possible.  Any psycho-active drug has the potential to harm you and set back your healing.  If your doctor were to prescribe Sertraline again, the prescription would probably be a dose that would likely harm you as no pills are made in a safe dose for people in withdrawal.  There may be no safe dose, in fact.  That whole issue is too complicated for me to describe here, but please know that the manufacturer does not make a dose that is safe for people in WD.

Of course, any street drugs and even legal marijuana are not safe for us.  Anything psycho-active is very, very dangerous for our brains.  In addition, there are a number of legal drugs we do not think of as harmful in our every-day lives:

1. You can have absolutely no alcoholic beverages, and if you visit the dentist, 2. no adrenaline based numbing agents (novacaine).  The dentist has a different type that does not last as long.  So, you can have dental work, but you must be careful to avoid adrenaline.  3. There are several antibiotics you must avoid, too, especially those that can cause what we call “floxxing.”  The antibiotics are called fluoroquinilones.  See this: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-updates-warnings-fluoroquinolone-antibiotics-risks-mental-health-and-low-blood-sugar-adverse

 

Many other antibiotics are risky to those in WD, but sometimes we have to take them.  Avoiding the fluoroquinilones is key to healing WD.

 

Now that all of that is out of the way,  please know that healing is not linear.  You will feel worse, then better, then worse again, over and over and over.  In fact, each time you feel worse, it means your brain has made a necessary change to return to “factory settings,” as Alto affectionately calls it.     This makes WD a very frustrating and scary experience as it is unlike any other healing process we have thus far encountered.

 

Many people, in desperation, try to return to commercially-made doses of their previous drugs.  That is unfortunate, but doctors and family members, frequently, shame and cajole and beg us to do so.  The myth that drugs can cure depression and anxiety is too strong.  Drugs only change our brains.  They numb us.  They give us extra energy because they are literally disrupting natural processes.  Once they have done for for long enough, a month or two, we are dependent on them for “normal” brain function and taking them away can be harmful.  
 

Quite frankly, you have what alcoholics can get when they quit drinking - post-acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS).  No one knows for sure why some people get it and others don’t.  It’s a form of dysautonomia - a dysfunction of the nervous system.  Slowly, over time, the brain changes back, and that process results in many unwanted and concerning symptoms.  It’s awful, but, eventually, your brain will recover.

 

 

[Mimi79]

@Rosetta

Always interesting to read you. You are really good to explain all this. 

[ShiningLight]

Just popping in to say it's so wonderful to see your progress. You are truly an inspiration. 🌈♥️

[Sheera]

Thinking of you ❤️ Look how far you’ve come!  ❤️

[Rosetta]

Dirty Windows
 

I have been suffering from WD symptoms for many years, and there were times when they were more pronounced because of big changes in my medications.  When I had my baby, my drug was changed from Celexa to Zoloft.  My sleep returned within a few months, but Zoloft was somewhat sedating for me.  That can happen.  Some people have insomnia, some have hypersomnia.  The dose was raised over and over, and each time I became sicker.
 

Then, about 4 1/2 years later, I quit 150 mg of Zoloft over about 6 weeks.  Insomnia was very bad after that, to the point that I was prescribed Trazodone.  That put me to sleep but also kindled my system and caused intense akathisia.  I think I started sleeping better and the aka eased about a year later.  I’m not sure.  It happened very gradually.

 

Windows and waves happened to me for over 20 years, as I reacted poorly to my very first psych med, but they became more pronounced after the cold med switch and rapid “taper.”  I’m not sure when I had my first clear window.  I had what I called dirty windows for a long time — improvement in some symptoms, such as mental, with deterioration in physical condition and vice versa.

 

This is the truth — no one else’s exact pattern of healing will track yours.  There are no rules except that improvement occurs over time, imperceptibly to us except that we can look back over weeks or months and see that we have improved.  New symptoms appear and disappear.  The intensity lessens, but then increases during a particularly bad wave, etc.  
 

Generally, people who do not improve or get worse over time have some outside irritant that is stirring up the nervous system.  It could be a substance or stress in the home or at work. There are people who don’t feel windows for a long time.  They tend to heal differently, but I think they might have dirty windows.  They feel awful, but in different ways during the dirty windows.  

[Rosetta]

Derealization

 

I felt the strange sense that there was more darkness.  Really odd and disturbing.  The derealization — the feeling that there was a glass wall between me and the world — was quite strong.  I could see the trees, the grass, etc. but I couldn’t feel that the world was there, emotionally.  I did not see it in two dimensions, but I felt that I should have been seeing it in two dimensions.  At times, the anhedonia was so strong that I didn’t care that I felt derealization.  At other times, anhedonia caused me intense sadness and anxiety.  This is all “normal” for WD in some people.  You have to remember that it doesn’t mean that something terrible is happening to the world.  It’s all going to be ok.  It IS ok.  The world is still there, but your experience of it is warped.  That’s all.  Yeah, right, “that’s all!”  I know it sounds absurd, but it is ok out there, and you are ok.  You just can’t feel that it’s ok.

[Overwhelmedlady]

Hi @RosettaTo me derealization felt more like profound emotional detachment.The feeling of being somewhere without really being there in the sense of having any involvement,only physical presence,sort of a film viewer.I experienced this inner disconnection during my adolescence due to 2 traumatic bereavements (loss of my parents in the course of 12 months).I always remember listening to a 70s song ,"Hide in your shell" which ,in those days represented my feelings towards the world around me.Years later,and after decades of psychoanalysis I was finally able to understand and put all the pieces together.I sometimes get that old feeling nowadays and as I see it it's a well known defense mechanism the mind resorts to when in great pain or distress.Always interesting to read your posts .I am glad you were able to cope with all these horrible feelings withdrawal causes.

[ShiningLight]

I love reading your posts that are looking back on all of this. It is so very comforting to me to see you look at it with that perspective.

[ThatOneGirlStitch]

6 hours ago, ShiningLight said:

I love reading your posts that are looking back on all of this. It is so very comforting to me to see you look at it with that perspective.

I also fully agree with this.

[Fightinghard]

Hey Rosetta-  You’ve been such an inspiration to me in your open and level headed approach  to this journey!  I’m so glad you’ve made all the progress You have and it seems recovery is so close!  Just wanted your willingness to share is greatly appreciated and helpful!  

[Carmie]

Hi Rosetta, 

 

Hope you’re doing okay🧡

[ShiningLight]

Was thinking about you too. You out there?

[Songbird]

On 12/28/2021 at 11:47 PM, Rosetta said:

Generally, people who do not improve or get worse over time have some outside irritant that is stirring up the nervous system.  It could be a substance or stress in the home or at work. 

This is such a good point, that I think often gets overlooked.  Anything that stirs up the nervous system can cause instability when in withdrawal or tapering.

[Rosetta]

I’m in a wave.  I’m so sick of this.  I’m very stressed. I feel that everything and everyone is a threat.  I’m finding out that in my carpool, one of the families has not been using the car seat with my child, and I’m furious.  One of the other families’ kid has been bullying my kid, but she has been fighting back.  This explains why she’s been more angry.  We may have that fixed.  I hope so, but now I have to insist on the car seat use, and I just want to quit the carpool!

 

Every joint in my body hurts.  My gums are swollen.  I think my brain is swollen.  
 

I had a melt down today.  We were late to something.  The dog is so anxious if one of us is not home.  I so regret getting this dog.  He adds anxiety and stress every day.  My husband was out.  After hours of the dog whining and asking for attention over and over, we had to be somewhere.  I grabbed the wrong keys, and I thought the steering wheel had locked from being turned too far to the left.   So, I struggled with that for long enough that we were actually late.  If I were not in a wave, I would not have minded so much.  Then, I was so flustered that I was on autopilot, and I drove in the wrong direction thereby making us even later.  If my daughter sees me like that it just makes me more agitated.  
 

I am so ANGRY!
 

 

[gentlehermione]

7 hours ago, Rosetta said:

 The dog is so anxious if one of us is not home.  I so regret getting this dog.  He adds anxiety and stress every day.

 

@Rosetta, I'm sorry to hear you're in a wave. I am too and it's a challenging one...

 

Dogs pick up on our emotions more than many of us realise. One of my dogs has an especially strong connection with me and I notice on days where my anxiety is pronounced, she definitely feels it. They are our mirrors.

 

Sending you healing thoughts 🥰

[Rosetta]

Thank you @gentlehermione Yes, I think you hit the nail on the head.  It’s awful because I get more anxious and irritated.  I’m on the mend, I believe.  I hope so.  You are so kind to lend support.  Thanks!

[ThatOneGirlStitch]

I am sorry about your wave. I also have a dog, she makes me anxious. I keep my door closed a lot. You had a lot at once. I hope you can take time for yourself.

[HealthHopeHappiness]

Sorry you are in a wave @Rosetta. It sounds like you have a lot of worries to deal with and I’m not surprised you feel the way you do. I have two dogs and I would agree about them feeding off our emotions. I also think they have a special gift of sensing what we need from them too, maybe your dog is whining and trying to get your attention because he/she is urging you to sit down and rest. Just a thought. Take care. 💕

[ShiningLight]

Not using your child's car seat is a huge boundary violation. I would be pissed too.

 

Been there with the dog troubles. Very stressful. One free resource is to Google Champion of My Heart for free audio dog training exercises you can practice with your dog if you are so inclined.

 

Hang in there. I hope you can body surf that wave and ride it all the way into shore soon.

[Rosetta]

Thank you, each of you, for writing to me with support.  I’m still having moments, hours, of feeling anxious, irritated and scared.  I wake up in the night scared.  It’s not terror these days.  I can recognize that there is no immediate threat, but I do have to think about it and remember that this is a malfunction of my nervous system that is intensifying normal discomfort with the state of the world.  
 

Now, my daughter is home from school for a few days.  We need a negative Covid test.  That takes time — far too much time.  It’s odd to realize we have been dealing with this stress for two years.  Now, the vaccines do not prevent positive tests, so the kids miss school for days at every, single sign of illness.  What a complete failure of our society and government.  After two years, there should be plenty of tests and labs and people employed to keep us operational when people are actually negative.  It has been nice to have her at home, though.  No rushing about every morning either.

 

The dog is a sweet dog.  I’m sure he needed a different family, but he got us.  I suppose it could have been worse on both sides.

 

Thanks, @ShiningLight @ThatOneGirlStitch @HealthHopeHappiness

[gentlehermione]

On 1/27/2022 at 1:24 PM, Rosetta said:

The dog is a sweet dog.  I’m sure he needed a different family, but he got us.  I suppose it could have been worse on both sides.

 

He has come into your lives for a reason - whatever that may be. All our animal companions have a purpose 😉

 

My dogs have brought me much comfort (and distraction!) during WD. Yours will too 🥰

[ShiningLight]

On 1/27/2022 at 4:24 AM, Rosetta said:

 We need a negative Covid test.  That takes time — far too much time.  It’s odd to realize we have been dealing with this stress for two years.  Now, the vaccines do not prevent positive tests, so the kids miss school for days at every, single sign of illness. 

 

Incredibly frustrating part of the pandemic, to worry about covid every time one feels off. 

 

[Rosetta]

I’m feeling better.  I was pretty anxious last week during the week.  It’s really hard to deal with school work at home.  There’s a lot of resistance.  She didn’t go back to school until Monday.  
 

My daughter had a big event on Saturday, and I went through it just fine.  There was a fair amount of stress, and we had to get up very early.  I was anxious about getting up early for days.  I was wiped out the next day.  I actually took a nap that day!!!  I can’t do that very often.  

 

Most mornings are all right for me, but not all.  I still have insomnia sometimes.  At times, I wake up at 4 or 5 and never go back to sleep.  I still struggle with uncertainty about my mood, my anxiety level, and I have dystonia sometimes.  I did last week.  

[Rosetta]

Hi @ShiningLight and @gentlehermione.  Thanks for stopping by.

[ShiningLight]

Glad you're feeling a bit better! Hang in there.

[Rosetta]

I’m awake again early.  I fall asleep around 9:00 pm (for which I am very, very grateful.). I should try to stay up later so that I can sleep later.  However, I’m waking in the night frequently, as in every night for the past week, with a cortisol spike, temporary fear and a hot flash followed by a cold sweat.  It’s like waking from a bad dream, but not remembering the dream.  Then, it’s very hard to go back to sleep.  Yesterday, it happened at about 4:00 am, and I never went back to sleep.  I would say that about 4 or so days out of the past 10 have been days when I was awake around 4 or 5 without going back to sleep.  This morning it was 6.  So, that’s better.

 

I have no energy during the day.  Everything takes so much effort, and I feel totally irritated to have to do anything.  The house is a wreck.  But, I push through, dreaming of the day when I will be organized again.  I’m still afraid to throw things away.  When will that ever stop?  I’m back to that feeling that I can’t get any rest, everything is happening too fast, I can’t keep up.  The laundry, the school and sports practices, events, homework, special projects, etc.  Trying to keep a child on track these days is hard enough without WD, but she’s bored and lonely if I don’t give her activities.  I think they keep me going, too, probably.  If we had nothing to do during a window, I would feel even more as if this disease had stolen my life and hers.
 

I still have times of anxiety, of course.  If I peek at the news, it gets more intense.  So, I try not to.  I feel better if I don’t read the news until I start to worry that I have missed something important, and then that causes anxiety.  
 

I am still free of the terrors.  I was not able to fully believe that would ever happen, during the deep, dark waves, but now my moments of normal grade fear are quite brief.  There is no terror, and there is true happiness during much of the day.  Cortisol spikes in the night interfere with my sleep, but the fear part of those is over very quickly, and it’s very rare that I wake up with it in the morning.  

When the sun comes up, I feel that I’m coming out of the horror movie into the bright sunshine.  I used to feel that the movie was following me into the light, but no more.

[gentlehermione]

On 2/6/2022 at 3:50 PM, Rosetta said:

I still have times of anxiety, of course.  If I peek at the news, it gets more intense.  So, I try not to.  I feel better if I don’t read the news until I start to worry that I have missed something important, and then that causes anxiety.  

@Rosetta, this so made me smile as I do the same!

 

Glad to hear that you are, on the whole, feeling a bit better 🥰

[Faure]

Hello, this sounds so positive about the feelings of terror abating and happiness during the day. You are doing so well getting through this Rosetta x

[HealthHopeHappiness]

It sounds like you doing well, @Rosettaand this is lovely to read. Keep on keeping on, you can do it. 💕

[Rosetta]

This month is my 5th year anniversary of quitting Zoloft over a 6 week period that began Jan 1st, 2017.  I believe I was finished with my “taper” and I stopped Trazodone around the middle of February.  I swore off small pieces of Xanax, too, as I felt that the drugs were hurting my health.  Little did I know the Hell I was about to experience.

 

Today, I’m dealing with my fourth day in a row of pain in my neck, shoulders, chest, back, face, jaw and scalp.  It feels something like caffeine withdrawal, but it isn’t.  This is something that happens to me from time to time, but especially in the springtime.  
 

It’s clearly some sort of muscle contraction.   It’s probably related to constriction of the blood vessels or lack thereof.  Sometimes, it goes down my arms all the way to my finger joints.  My teeth don’t hurt.  This feels like something different from when my teeth and joints hurt.  It could be some sort of swelling.  Maybe it’s like a migraine that extends down my neck to my chest, back and arms.  It doesn’t affect my legs much.  It’s feels a lot like the pain of PMS that covers more of my body than PMS pain did.  I do not doubt that this is related to the hormonal fluctuations around menses.

 

i think that caffeine helps lessen it.  Even if I take the maximum dose of ibuprophen that doesn’t seem to help.

 

Otherwise, I’m ok today.  I did feel very stressed and upset and cried the day before yesterday when I had to drive for 3 or 4 hours round trip.  I couldn’t get the car to take gas without holding the nozzle the entire time I filled the tank. I was very frustrated and stressed about the drive ahead.  I couldn’t cope very well.

 

I am trying to feel grateful that I’ve come this far and not think about how angry I am that PAWS was never diagnosed or recognized years ago in 1996.  Instead, the doctors just prescribed anti-depressants, and ignored the adverse reactions.  I’m lucky that I made it this far.

 

Thank you, @gentlehermione @HealthHopeHappiness and @Faure  I appreciate the well wishes so much!

 

 

[Lilabella]

Hello @Rosetta just wanted to say hello because I have followed you for a while and am glad to see you are making it through every day. You are an inspiration. I'm sorry to hear about your pains I hope they ease up soon. You have done so well to get to this point. All the best lila 

[gentlehermione]

14 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I am trying to feel grateful that I’ve come this far and not think about how angry I am that PAWS was never diagnosed or recognized years ago in 1996.  Instead, the doctors just prescribed anti-depressants, and ignored the adverse reactions.  I’m lucky that I made it this far.

 

Indeed @Rosetta the anger and resentment are counterproductive to our healing. For a long time I was very angry. But now I, too, try to feel grateful and accept that we're on a long journey. We'll definitely one day be able to put PAWS behind us - hopefully sooner than later!

 

You have done so well and come so far 👏 Keep pushing forward 🥰

[Phoenixmama]

❤️🌞

[almuPA]

On 2/9/2022 at 10:06 PM, Rosetta said:

This month is my 5th year anniversary of quitting Zoloft over a 6 week period that began Jan 1st, 2017.

You are an example to all of us, @Rosetta. It may sound weird, but I would like to congratulate you for this strange anniversary. 5 years of fighting and not giving up, sharing your experience and knowledge with us and advising people👏

 

On 2/6/2022 at 2:50 PM, Rosetta said:

I have no energy during the day.  Everything takes so much effort, and I feel totally irritated to have to do anything.  The house is a wreck.  But, I push through, dreaming of the day when I will be organized again.  I’m still afraid to throw things away.  When will that ever stop?  I’m back to that feeling that I can’t get any rest, everything is happening too fast, I can’t keep up.  The laundry, the school and sports practices, events, homework, special projects, etc.

 

You have the capacity to voice what I am going through atm. But we both know that better times are coming, so let's focus on that thought. 

 

I send you a hug.

[Elyssa143]

@Rosetta

 

im so glad to read your wonderful updates I know you still struggle, but your improvements are great. I’ll be 4 years next month on the 4th overall I am better but I still very much struggle with depression si inner aka and dread. I often get so discouraged that this is my life this is it for me. And it’s very discouraging. I often fear my damage is way to great and I won’t completely heal. I do hope overal your doing so much better. Sending you tons of love and light!