Rosetta: cold switch May 2011 & too fast taper Feb 2017

July 9, 2022

On 7/8/2022 at 12:35 AM, Rosetta said:

Thank you @Ariel I appreciate your thoughts very much. That you took time to share them means so much to me.

@Sheera Thank you. Seeing your message helps a lot with feelings that are, thankfully, not as sharp as they once were, but still there, nonetheless.

Hello rosetta !! how is your dystonia?? any major improvemnet?

thanks

July 11, 2022

oh @Rosetta 💜❤️ you've opened my eyes so much with that post , sometimes i get caught up in the everyday struggle of life and wd on top of that and i'm so focused on my little girl that i have most likely have not been the loving mother i use to be to my 16 year old , i mean i love him but very short patient and just always tired... i will now find time for him and nurture him once again.... thank you for your post from the bottom of my heart 💜

July 17, 2022

@Rosetta

Thank you for your input about motherhood. You are so insightful, I think all the struggles of your past just make you the incredible woman you are today.

About this fear of not being a good mother, When in a wave, I tend to feel so detached from my family that I fear the consequences on them. I forget that, even when I am feeling good, I don’t spend every second taking care of them. They are both teenagers now so they probably want to be alone anyway!
The last 4 weeks have been pretty good, but unfortunately I am back in a wave since Friday. An ugly one, full of chemical depression. I don’t get use to it, it is so hard. Every time I feel like I won’t be able to go through…

Have a nice day!

July 21, 2022

@Faure Thank you, Faure. You are so kind. I’m very grateful that you are here although I wish you did not have any reason to be here, of course.

. @Mimi79 and @Phoenixmama I hope it is only your perception that makes it seem as if you don’t do enough. I’m sure you are so much better than my mother was. You clearly care. The fact that you even think about whether you do enough — that’s very telling.

My mother is probably a narcissist. It’s not clear. She’s extremely smart, and she hides her true feelings well for people who don’t really know her. I was always grateful when my mother left me alone. Other people put so many restrictions on their kids and made them feel guilty for so many things. I thought I was lucky until my mother was suddenly in a rage over something that I didn’t know was an issue. Now, I realize she was simply embarrassed because someone had said something to her about how she treated me. Some people noticed that I had to get what I needed from other parents, and what they didn’t understand was that when they challenged her, she pretended to be concerned about me, and then I caught Hell when no one was looking. You would not describe yourself that way, correct?

I’m sure you are fine. That said, a little extra attention and expression of love and concern certainly won’t hurt them. I’m sorry that you are in a wave, Mimi. That fear that you won’t make it through is very hard to experience, but you will because you have to, and you know that you will be glad you did!

Phoenixmama, Oh, I don’t think I realized you had a 16 year old or I forgot. Yes, how challenging to have a 5 year old, a 16 year old and WD. My heart goes out to you. I feel that have just barely held it together for one child. I had another pregnancy that I lost at 12 weeks. My daughter was 2 1/2. It was December 23rd.

I have always thought that I was stronger for having had a challenging childhood. It was the ADs that did me in. I could have taken that pain and made a difference, but the damage to my nervous system time and again was the thing that destroyed my future. How I wish these drugs never existed.

I recommend that you are honest with your teenagers about why you struggle, and give them extra love when you feel better. They understand more than we think. My family always acted as if they could hide things from me. I knew so much, and although I couldn’t understand what it all meant, I was harmed by the lying and the gaslighting probably more so than by the circumstances.

You have to be careful to say you are providing an explanation and not an excuse, and you have to demonstrate that fact, too. Talk about how you compensate for your difficulties, and try to make up for the times you are down or under the weather. Just the fact that you tried will matter! If my mother had only tried. Find ways of being there for your kids that are doable: quiet times, movies at home, simple meals, board games, etc. Let the kids choose from several low stress activities as they will feel less disappointed if they choose the activity themselves. Your teenager can come up with ideas that are low stress perhaps.

Avoid making promises to do big things because you will not be able to follow through. I had to do bigger things spur of the moment and take advantage of a good day. I had to avoid promising to do things and say, “I may not be able to do that, but I will try someday.” I would try to do something she had asked for as a spur of the moment thing.

You also have to be aware that if you overdo it, you may have a meltdown afterward. That still happens to me sometimes. All I can do is apologize, tell her that I wanted to make a special day, and then at the end something triggered a meltdown, but it’s not her fault. How many times have I said, “This is not your fault?” I have to say: You did nothing wrong; I’m sorry if it seems that way; that is not the lesson I want you to learn here. I want you to see that I pushed myself because I love you, and I pushed myself too far, but I wanted you to have that day, and I am glad I gave it to you despite what it cost me. I don’t want you to feel guilty or as if you did not deserve that day. I don’t want you to feel that you pushed me over the edge. I did that myself. I can’t always know how it will go, but I’m not going to make us live like hermits because I am fragile. You deserve more.

July 21, 2022

I am afraid I have failed disasterously.

I am proud of myself for making it thus far, but I am also disappointed in myself. I feel guilty for letting anxiety stop me from doing things I should have done. I feel I have done the best I could MOST of the time. I try to let go of feeling down because I have failed so many times. However, when my daughter pays the price for the fact that I let something go due to the overwhelming anxiety it caused me to address it, I feel particularly down. I didn’t do the best I could, I think. I failed, and there is a consequence. We are going to the orthodontist tomorrow, and we will find out how badly I failed.

I tried, but my past trauma with my teeth overwhelmed me. I had four permanent teeth pulled out of my head. There was no room for them. Perhaps there was no alternative for me at the time, but when the orthodontist wanted my dentist to pull two of my daughter’s baby teeth that were slightly loose, I couldn’t go through with that. I kept putting it off. I thought they were being hasty and scratching each other’s backs. The dentists I go to are pretty honest about the work that has to be done, but I think they are misogynistic, and they are dismissive of people who feel fear over what they will do. The younger dentist belittled my daughter for being afraid when she was 7 years old. He has no kids. He’s more and more anxious himself every time I see him. The older dentist at the office refused to work on kids. My friend said she won’t take her kids to that office anymore. The older dentist is the one who gave me adrenaline based shots 5 minutes after I asked him not to. When I realized it and told him that my nervous system was firing, he laughed at me and said it would subside! He acted as if I was being ridiculous. I was a mess for two weeks after that.

So, I put off this extraction, and then scheduled it again, but my daughter got sick. So, I had to cancel. Getting a dentist appointment these days takes 6-8 weeks. The problem is that the dentist needs an order from the orthodontist to extract the teeth. The dentist had recommended the orthodontist to me. I was afraid to tell the orthodontist that I could not let that office extract these teeth. Then, one tooth fell out, and I thought it would all correct itself. It hasn’t. Her two permanent teeth are not coming through. Why didn’t I tell the orthodontist that I couldn’t let that dentist do the extraction and ask her for a referral?! I hope it’s not too bad, the result, but I’m terrified.

I have a lot of anxiety involving dentists and my teeth. It’s all wrapped up with feelings of worthlessness. The constant guilt my mother made me feel for being alive has been a major problem for me. She even said once that she wished she had had an abortion. She said her doctor had offered that to her in 1969, and she decided to have me. I will never, ever forget that. Never.

July 21, 2022

@Kiwi123456 Hi, I replied on your thread. Yes, dystonia has continued to improve more and more all the time.

July 21, 2022

10 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

She even said once that she wished she had had an abortion. She said her doctor had offered that to her in 1969, and she decided to have me. I will never, ever forget that. Never.

Oh, Rosetta, I am so sorry to hear this! I can only imagine how very painful this is for you. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive her.

I remember something my mother said to me as a teenager that was hurtful, and I feel that it had some effect on shaping my life. Or maybe I'm giving it more credit than it deserves. But it still hurts all these years later. It made me determine I would never say anything like it to my own children.

Take care,

Terry

July 21, 2022

I wrote this to someone today. The pitfalls of surviving AD adverse reaction or WD are many:

I would not be surprised if PANDAS affected your daughter, but you do not need to prove that to be aggrieved for the way she was “treated” by the medical system. I, too, would forget about suing and focus all my efforts on protecting my child and helping her heal. The number of times doctors have been held accountable for malpractice on psychiatric patients are very, very few. It’s a waste of time and energy, as angry as that fact makes me.

I was also on Zoloft, and my condition worsened with each increase in the dose. I had been cold turkeyed off of Celexa after my child was born. The Zoloft was started at 10 mg and increased to 150 mg over 4-5 years. However, I had been on trials of various ADs since the age of 19 thus making me fragile and at greater risk of an adverse reaction.

At about age 30, I starting taking an AD long term for the first time, Celexa. I did not know that I was in long term withdrawal from a pain medication that I had no problem giving up about 4 years earlier. According to my husband, I was adversely affected by Celexa, but he could not convince me of that fact. This phenomenon is known as “medication spellbinding.” The phrase may have been coined by a doctor who has become so distrustful of the medical profession that he has made statements about Covid recently with which I disagree, but his critique of the psychiatric profession is spot on. He knows exactly what he is talking about when it comes to psychiatric malpractice.

I was 42 when the cold switch to Zoloft occurred, and my world unraveled continuously over the first 5 years of my child’s life as my dose was increased over and over again. I cold turkey Zoloft when I decided that the med was the problem. That was a mistake, but I have healed tremendously in the last 5 years.

I believe that what happened to your daughter was likely an adverse reaction to Zoloft. This may have happened after one of the increases in dose. The pills are not made in very many denominations, you may know. An increase from 10 mg to 20 mg is doubling, and can cause an adverse reaction. Many doctors double doses even when it is possible to increase by only 5 or 10 mg. They may even double from 50 mg to 100 mg. It’s madness, but it’s also common.

AD withdrawal syndrome and adverse effects have very similar symptoms, by the way. It’s difficult to have any idea which is affecting a person if the dose has been lowered or stopped abruptly prior to an increase that may have caused an adverse reaction. Ultimately, it does not matter which, adverse reaction or withdrawal syndrome, caused the disruption in the function of the autonomic nervous system. The healing trajectory is the same — not linear, but in a windows and waves pattern. I hope you find info on this pattern on this website and study it intensely. It will explain much of the back and forth healing, regressing, healing, regressing that you may see in your daughter’s recovery.

The longer a person is off of an AD, the more serious the adverse reaction might be when the person starts taking the AD (or any drug that affects the brain) again at a normal dose. This is to say, please do not ever consent to your child taking another psychotropic medication. This includes antibiotics (Cipro is a common one) known to cause psychiatric problems (“floxxing”), acne drugs such as Accutane, and even adrenaline based numbing agents for dental work. (There is a non-adrenaline based agent you can request. Do so. No exceptions.) Each time I am given the adrenaline based agent, my symptoms of adverse reaction/withdrawal return.

You must carefully research every drug that is suggested to make sure it has not been associated with psychiatric problems. The SA website can help. There are difficulties with many, many drugs for former drug users, including addicts. Unfortunately, those of us who took ADs now have a nervous system condition that also affects street drug addicts. It is called dysautonomia. This is the real tragedy behind the use and misuse of ADs by psychiatrists and GPS. The dependence on an AD is the harm, and the fact that there are no cravings for the drug has no effect on whether the drug can cause long term withdrawal syndrome. Cravings are associated with addiction, but dependence on a drug can be formed regardless of whether that drug causes cravings. We are not called addicts because we do not crave the drug, but we have become dependent nonetheless. That dependence set the stage for long term withdrawal or post acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS) aka dysautonomia. It is the same condition that affects alcoholics and opioid or street drug addicts. (And I am furious that this was not disclosed to me prior to my prescription!)

The good news is the our bodies can heal this condition all by themselves. Dysautonomia will eventually resolve itself over several years, and we will become less sensitive and fragile, but for the time being, we must be very, very careful not to increase the degree of dysfunction in our nervous systems by taking drugs. I have found that Tylenol and ibuprophen are safe for me, and even Benadryl, now, but that was not always the case.

The fact that ADs cause anxiety and ADHD symptoms is known. The fact that they cause withdrawal and long term withdrawal is known. The fact that adding antipsychotics to ADs is risky is known. Perhaps many doctors do not want to believe they have harmed their patients. However, what happened to your daughter is absolutely outrageous. It is also common. The cascade effect is common, the progression from ADs to antipsychotics, mood stabilizers, and SNRIs or other psychotropics drugs is common. Polydrugging is common. In fact, psychiatrists have been harming their patients for decades. Whatever place ADs have in medicine, they are not used responsibly, their adverse effects are not taken seriously, and withdrawal syndrome, long-term withdrawal syndrome and various other negative effects are not studied. Despite this, the negative effects of ADs such as anxiety, ADHD symptoms, suicidal tendencies and attempts, and even increased depression have been known side effects of ADs since the 1990s. There was research into these ill effects that was ignored, covered up and denied for 30 years.

The problem is that our government does not study drugs. No neutral agency studies drugs. The pharmaceutical companies study drugs, and they cover up the bad results. They bury studies with poor results. They remove people with adverse effects from studies and hide their existence. The FDA allows the drug companies to hide studies and only report the studies that have “positive” outcomes. This means that the true effects on all the people who were guinea pigs for a drug are never known. The drug companies do study after study until they get 2 or 3 that are positive. The entire time they are whittling down the people in the studies to only those people who are unlikely to have adverse effects. Eventually, they get “positive” results. The fact that ADs cause SI in children was hidden for many years. ADs cause SI in adults, too, but the FDA did not require that warning. ADs and adverse effects caused me to be suicidal for 30 years. There is no safe age for any of these drugs.

Recently, the National Health Service in the UK recognized AD withdrawal syndrome and published a pamphlet about the syndrome. There are numerous bodies that recognize the ill effects of ADs and many activists who are trying to raise awareness. That long term withdrawal or PAWS can result from ADs has not been acknowledged by the NHS or the FDA. The drug companies are not going to do studies that prove the connection. The government won’t do them, and there is no neutral agency that can do them. So, the fact that this happens to people is denied. There is no proof. How convenient.

Unfortunately, once a person has been exposed to ADs or antipsychotics or mood stabilizers and has suffered an adverse reaction, that person’s nervous system is fragile, and further use of many types of drugs is very likely to cause serious problems. The condition caused by adverse reactions and withdrawal is actually, as I mentioned, dysautonomia. It is a destabilization of the autonomic nervous system. The healing therefrom is not linear. That is why some members of this forum have cautioned you that your daughter may experience further challenges even after she appears healed. Please know that she will weather those periods and come through them to see increased good health, if she can avoid suicide and further drugs, but may vacillate back and forth for months or years. Occasionally, she may seem much worse that she has been for weeks or months. This is normal for the healing process from AD injury. SI may come and go. You will need to take precautions for that long after you believe it is resolved, just in case.

We often hear stories of people who seemed fine and then one day, they are suddenly extremely suicidal. This is similar to the sudden anger you are seeing that resolves quickly followed by an apology. I have dealt with this roller coaster of SI, sudden anger, and disability now for many, many years. There are people who heal quickly and are completely normal in only 2-3 years. I have not been that lucky, but I can say that improvement is continuous and that I am forever getting better.

Ironically, Zoloft caused severe OCD for me.

July 21, 2022

Thank you @Terry That’s very sweet of you. At this point, I’m over being hurt. I am just angry. I will never be over my anger at her for this. I was only a teenager. Every time she calls and wants some attention or to know about my daughter, I remember that she deserves nothing. What I give her, I give her for myself and for my daughter to have a grandmother. I cannot help but love her because I was taught that she was my mother by the person who was my true mother, my grandmother. I even have conflicting feelings about my grandmother, but I know she did not understand what was happening. I did not tell her because she would not have believed me. The one time I tried to say anything about the abuse, I was immediately gaslit by her, of course. I do understand, now, how hard it would be to believe one’s own child could be such a monster.

The fact that the pharmaceutical companies prey upon people like me — that is even more egregious. My mother was somehow damaged. Maybe it was the leaded gasoline. I think that was very harmful to the brains of the children living in cities. I think that explains a lot of the lack of care that her generation has toward other people, toward society. I really do. At least that harm wasn’t intentional or covered up by the FDA and people who profited from the use of lead (in this country. Elsewhere, they poisoned kids for years after the harmful effects were known.) The abuse of the brains and bodies and lives of people who rely on medical and psychiatric care in the US, the UK, and many other countries where there is enough money to pay for mental health care is an absolute atrocity.

July 21, 2022

1 hour ago, Rosetta said:

I wrote this to someone today. The pitfalls of surviving AD adverse reaction or WD are many:

I would not be surprised if PANDAS affected your daughter, but you do not need to prove that to be aggrieved for the way she was “treated” by the medical system. I, too, would forget about suing and focus all my efforts on protecting my child and helping her heal. The number of times doctors have been held accountable for malpractice on psychiatric patients are very, very few. It’s a waste of time and energy, as angry as that fact makes me.

I was also on Zoloft, and my condition worsened with each increase in the dose. I had been cold turkeyed off of Celexa after my child was born. The Zoloft was started at 10 mg and increased to 150 mg over 4-5 years. However, I had been on trials of various ADs since the age of 19 thus making me fragile and at greater risk of an adverse reaction.

At about age 30, I starting taking an AD long term for the first time, Celexa. I did not know that I was in long term withdrawal from a pain medication that I had no problem giving up about 4 years earlier. According to my husband, I was adversely affected by Celexa, but he could not convince me of that fact. This phenomenon is known as “medication spellbinding.” The phrase may have been coined by a doctor who has become so distrustful of the medical profession that he has made statements about Covid recently with which I disagree, but his critique of the psychiatric profession is spot on. He knows exactly what he is talking about when it comes to psychiatric malpractice.

I was 42 when the cold switch to Zoloft occurred, and my world unraveled continuously over the first 5 years of my child’s life as my dose was increased over and over again. I cold turkey Zoloft when I decided that the med was the problem. That was a mistake, but I have healed tremendously in the last 5 years.

I believe that what happened to your daughter was likely an adverse reaction to Zoloft. This may have happened after one of the increases in dose. The pills are not made in very many denominations, you may know. An increase from 10 mg to 20 mg is doubling, and can cause an adverse reaction. Many doctors double doses even when it is possible to increase by only 5 or 10 mg. They may even double from 50 mg to 100 mg. It’s madness, but it’s also common.

AD withdrawal syndrome and adverse effects have very similar symptoms, by the way. It’s difficult to have any idea which is affecting a person if the dose has been lowered or stopped abruptly prior to an increase that may have caused an adverse reaction. Ultimately, it does not matter which, adverse reaction or withdrawal syndrome, caused the disruption in the function of the autonomic nervous system. The healing trajectory is the same — not linear, but in a windows and waves pattern. I hope you find info on this pattern on this website and study it intensely. It will explain much of the back and forth healing, regressing, healing, regressing that you may see in your daughter’s recovery.

The longer a person is off of an AD, the more serious the adverse reaction might be when the person starts taking the AD (or any drug that affects the brain) again at a normal dose. This is to say, please do not ever consent to your child taking another psychotropic medication. This includes antibiotics (Cipro is a common one) known to cause psychiatric problems (“floxxing”), acne drugs such as Accutane, and even adrenaline based numbing agents for dental work. (There is a non-adrenaline based agent you can request. Do so. No exceptions.) Each time I am given the adrenaline based agent, my symptoms of adverse reaction/withdrawal return.

You must carefully research every drug that is suggested to make sure it has not been associated with psychiatric problems. The SA website can help. There are difficulties with many, many drugs for former drug users, including addicts. Unfortunately, those of us who took ADs now have a nervous system condition that also affects street drug addicts. It is called dysautonomia. This is the real tragedy behind the use and misuse of ADs by psychiatrists and GPS. The dependence on an AD is the harm, and the fact that there are no cravings for the drug has no effect on whether the drug can cause long term withdrawal syndrome. Cravings are associated with addiction, but dependence on a drug can be formed regardless of whether that drug causes cravings. We are not called addicts because we do not crave the drug, but we have become dependent nonetheless. That dependence set the stage for long term withdrawal or post acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS) aka dysautonomia. It is the same condition that affects alcoholics and opioid or street drug addicts. (And I am furious that this was not disclosed to me prior to my prescription!)

The good news is the our bodies can heal this condition all by themselves. Dysautonomia will eventually resolve itself over several years, and we will become less sensitive and fragile, but for the time being, we must be very, very careful not to increase the degree of dysfunction in our nervous systems by taking drugs. I have found that Tylenol and ibuprophen are safe for me, and even Benadryl, now, but that was not always the case.

The fact that ADs cause anxiety and ADHD symptoms is known. The fact that they cause withdrawal and long term withdrawal is known. The fact that adding antipsychotics to ADs is risky is known. Perhaps many doctors do not want to believe they have harmed their patients. However, what happened to your daughter is absolutely outrageous. It is also common. The cascade effect is common, the progression from ADs to antipsychotics, mood stabilizers, and SNRIs or other psychotropics drugs is common. Polydrugging is common. In fact, psychiatrists have been harming their patients for decades. Whatever place ADs have in medicine, they are not used responsibly, their adverse effects are not taken seriously, and withdrawal syndrome, long-term withdrawal syndrome and various other negative effects are not studied. Despite this, the negative effects of ADs such as anxiety, ADHD symptoms, suicidal tendencies and attempts, and even increased depression have been known side effects of ADs since the 1990s. There was research into these ill effects that was ignored, covered up and denied for 30 years.

The problem is that our government does not study drugs. No neutral agency studies drugs. The pharmaceutical companies study drugs, and they cover up the bad results. They bury studies with poor results. They remove people with adverse effects from studies and hide their existence. The FDA allows the drug companies to hide studies and only report the studies that have “positive” outcomes. This means that the true effects on all the people who were guinea pigs for a drug are never known. The drug companies do study after study until they get 2 or 3 that are positive. The entire time they are whittling down the people in the studies to only those people who are unlikely to have adverse effects. Eventually, they get “positive” results. The fact that ADs cause SI in children was hidden for many years. ADs cause SI in adults, too, but the FDA did not require that warning. ADs and adverse effects caused me to be suicidal for 30 years. There is no safe age for any of these drugs.

Recently, the National Health Service in the UK recognized AD withdrawal syndrome and published a pamphlet about the syndrome. There are numerous bodies that recognize the ill effects of ADs and many activists who are trying to raise awareness. That long term withdrawal or PAWS can result from ADs has not been acknowledged by the NHS or the FDA. The drug companies are not going to do studies that prove the connection. The government won’t do them, and there is no neutral agency that can do them. So, the fact that this happens to people is denied. There is no proof. How convenient.

Unfortunately, once a person has been exposed to ADs or antipsychotics or mood stabilizers and has suffered an adverse reaction, that person’s nervous system is fragile, and further use of many types of drugs is very likely to cause serious problems. The condition caused by adverse reactions and withdrawal is actually, as I mentioned, dysautonomia. It is a destabilization of the autonomic nervous system. The healing therefrom is not linear. That is why some members of this forum have cautioned you that your daughter may experience further challenges even after she appears healed. Please know that she will weather those periods and come through them to see increased good health, if she can avoid suicide and further drugs, but may vacillate back and forth for months or years. Occasionally, she may seem much worse that she has been for weeks or months. This is normal for the healing process from AD injury. SI may come and go. You will need to take precautions for that long after you believe it is resolved, just in case.

We often hear stories of people who seemed fine and then one day, they are suddenly extremely suicidal. This is similar to the sudden anger you are seeing that resolves quickly followed by an apology. I have dealt with this roller coaster of SI, sudden anger, and disability now for many, many years. There are people who heal quickly and are completely normal in only 2-3 years. I have not been that lucky, but I can say that improvement is continuous and that I am forever getting better.

Ironically, Zoloft caused severe OCD for me.

Rosetta, you are a force to be reckoned with!!

I love your writing and always appreciate your posts.

July 21, 2022

@Rosetta

5 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I am afraid I have failed disasterously.

I am proud of myself for making it thus far, but I am also disappointed in myself. I feel guilty for letting anxiety stop me from doing things I should have done. I feel I have done the best I could MOST of the time. I try to let go of feeling down because I have failed so many times. However, when my daughter pays the price for the fact that I let something go due to the overwhelming anxiety it caused me to address it, I feel particularly down. I didn’t do the best I could, I think. I failed, and there is a consequence. We are going to the orthodontist tomorrow, and we will find out how badly I failed.

Dear dear Rosetta.

My heart goes out to you in your struggle.

Please be kind with yourself.

Please don't beat yourself up about this. It sounds like it may be those neuro-emotions taking you for a spin.

You work so very hard, and you haven't failed.

The way you live and fight so fiercely is the opposite of failing.

You make the choices you make out of love for your daughter and because you want to protect her.

You are doing your best to give your daughter what you didn't have, and you are making every effort to shield her from undue harm.

You are a wonderful, loving, humble, generous, devoted mother and a beautiful, special, uniquely precious human being.

You are doing everything you can to nurture and care for your daughter.

5 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I thought they were being hasty and scratching each other’s backs. The dentists I go to are pretty honest about the work that has to be done, but I think they are misogynistic, and they are dismissive of people who feel fear over what they will do. The younger dentist belittled my daughter for being afraid when she was 7 years old. He has no kids. He’s more and more anxious himself every time I see him. The older dentist at the office refused to work on kids. My friend said she won’t take her kids to that office anymore. The older dentist is the one who gave me adrenaline based shots 5 minutes after I asked him not to. When I realized it and told him that my nervous system was firing, he laughed at me and said it would subside! He acted as if I was being ridiculous. I was a mess for two weeks after that.

This sounds truly awful, Rosetta.

I wouldn't want to see these dentists or let them touch my child, either!

I am so sorry you had this experience of the dentist ignoring your request and administering adrenaline-based shots against your consent -- and then laughing at your pain and discomfort! There is just no excuse for that. I am livid on your behalf.

The incident with the adrenaline is a true violation of patient-doctor trust and completely unethical. Of course you were "a mess" afterwards (physiologically, biochemically, I'm guessing is what you mean), of course such traumatic experiences leave their mark in more ways than one. Not to mention the baggage of traumatic psychiatric drug history, all the bullsh*t we've been fed by doctors and the medical establishment, and any other complex trauma from childhood of boundaries being violated, etc. etc. Of course an incident like this or similar at the dentist's is bound to be triggering and encoded in the body as "unsafe" -- that is your body doing its job trying to protect you.

Is there any possibility of changing dentists to someone who is respectful and decent, someone good? (I am guessing that if you were able to change you already would have, but feel compelled to ask the question nonetheless.)

Is it possible to get a second opinion? (Even if that second opinion is from another subpar, emotionally stunted source, perhaps it might still be worth something, as it might at least clarify the need/recommendation for a procedure or not. You say your dentists are "pretty honest about the work that has to be done", so it seems you trust their clinical expertise; however, that's a rational statement, and it can be practically impossible to discern/assess valuable information when our (neuro-)emotions are triggered, let alone act on it. If/when we are in fight-or-flight mode it really doesn't matter what our rational mind says, if it's saying anything at all. In that mode we are physiologically, neurologically, biochemically unable to act from a cool, calm, collected place, and that's exactly how it's meant to be. The whole point is we can only act from a place of survival; which is how our species got here.)

Have you considered reporting the incident or somehow filing a complaint?

I have heard that some doctors' and dentists' offices rely on online patient reviews; might that be a possible way to exert some influence?

(I appreciate that this requires energy and effort; and I don't know what avenues are available where you live if one does want to make a complaint. I completely understand if this isn't realistic or possible. No pressure, no expectations at all. Sorry if my wondering aloud is annoying, please feel free to disregard.)

I don't like going to the dentist at all, either. It is a uniquely vulnerable position to be in, lying back with mouth open like that. My body does not like it (no matter how many non-drug coping techniques I rock before, during, and after). There is real physical and psychological vulnerability involved. Our teeth are very important to survival and also socially. It is well-known that issues with our teeth can affect us psychologically and bring up deep feelings of shame and vulnerability. As you say yourself, it can connect to feelings of worthlessness and more.

Our mouths are the source of such primal connection to life and survival, even in the womb some of us suck our thumbs. Not to mention the proximity to our brains, with our mouths open at the dentist's like that, it is really objectively a biologically vulnerable state. Of course our neural pathways react to that. Even many, many people who have never touched a psych drug and have "intact" nervous systems and no trauma history will organically react to the situation because of our shared human biology. It's how we're wired as a species, evolutionarily, because the alerting mechanisms help us survive. (It may be more obvious if we imagine an animal, say a cat, or maybe a chimpanzee, made to lie back, belly up, in a dentist's chair, mouth voluntarily open while someone is drilling in their head. No cat or chimp would accept that (I mean, can you imagine??!). We are animals, too. Our minds and our conditioning may to a certain extent allow for us to place ourselves in such a situation, but there is no part of our rudimentary animal biology, so to speak, that finds it acceptable. In WD our animal biology is often even more at the forefront, as we are in the process of healing and as such are in a position of increased vulnerability, meaning that survival is imperative on the agenda.)

Dentists are doctors and are trained within the same paradigm of allopathic medicine and pharmacology, etc. It can be very challenging to be dependent on them for a procedure one cannot manage on one's own.

I don't know whether it might be possible to have access to holistic, naturopathic dentists/orthodontists, or even just some practitioners who are simply trustworthy, reasonably good people who will listen to you, take you seriously, respect your concerns, and work with you to provide competent care. I sure do wish that for you.

Given all this I completely understand your choices wanting to protect your daughter!

You are not the problem here, and this is not your failure.

The shame is on those horrible dentists who do not foster trust in their relationship with patients and who do not respect their patients.

Don't internalize their failing. Your response to their toxic ineptitude is entirely appropriate.

(Your description of the dentist who is increasingly anxious every time you see him made me wonder whether he is on psych drugs himself!)

I don't know whether you are maybe "stuck" with these dentists due to logistics, e.g. health insurance, geographical proximity, etc.

I'm very sorry if the situation is such that it's not possible to get a second opinion nor possible to change dentists/orthodontists.

I don't know the details and hold space for the fullness and complexity of your experience, as well as the very real bureaucratic clusterf*ck that so often determines practical circumstances of lived reality.

I am sorry you are in this situation with your daughter and her dental care and making decisions on her behalf.

I cannot imagine how complex and challenging that must be. I am not a parent and I do not know what it is to be you.

I only know that you haven't failed, and you are not a failure.

You are a brilliant, beautiful, fierce, worthy human being who is fighting the good fight every single day.

You are so unbelievably brave.

You work so hard and you love so hard and you try your d*mndest every step of the way.

I cannot think of more exemplary behavior to model for one's child, honestly.

Wishing you good luck at your appointment.

No matter what happens please be gentle with yourself and treat yourself with so much compassion and lovingkindness. You deserve no less.

I have complete confidence in you, Rosetta.

In solidarity and support,

A.

July 21, 2022

@Rosetta "This phenomenon is known as “medication spellbinding.” The phrase may have been coined by a doctor who has become so distrustful of the medical profession that he has made statements about Covid recently with which I disagree, but his critique of the psychiatric profession is spot on."

Would this be Dr. Peter Breggin?

Edited July 21, 2022 by Terry
Tagged wrong person.

July 21, 2022

@Terry

Butting in --

https://psych.breggin.com/intoxication-anosognosia-medication-spellbinding/

July 22, 2022

Thank you @Ariel for your support and validating my feelings. I appreciate that very much. Thanks also for answering Terry’s question.

Yes. There has been a lot of neuro-emotion involved in my delay of having these teeth pulled, I believe. My teeth look fine, but they have caused me a lot of grief. They have cost me tons of money and a lot discomfort having them drilled over and over again. The amalgam fillings cause teeth to crack. Most people don’t know that. The metal expands and contracts, and, after a decade or two, the teeth crack. Then, they must be capped. The dentist drills away the entire crown on the tooth leaving just a tiny stump. A crown is made and glued to the stump. On top of that, before the teeth crack, there are tiny spaces that open between the amalgam filling and the tooth. The tooth rots in between. So, the amalgam fillings have to be replaced with larger fillings. The larger the filling, the more likely the tooth will crack. Eventually, all the molars are capped.

When I was finally TOLD about this problem with amalgam in my thirties, I had two crowns placed. They cost $1,000 each. After that, I had each amalgam filling replaced with a gold filling. Gold expands much less, and the fillings can last for 30 years. (Another option was to have composite fillings, but they only last 5-12 years. Also, they were more expensive for me. For most people, they are not.).

The situation in the US with health and dental care is a complete disaster. I go to these dentists because the women who work for them are so nice and gentle, and the dentists are not charlatans. They don’t invent problems and cheat me. This is very, very rare in the US. The cost of cleanings is reasonable, too, comparatively. The only reason they can be honest is because the older dentist started practicing when buying dental equipment was reasonably priced. They have all new, astronomically expensive equipment now, but the older dentist was established when the cost of equipment went through the stratosphere. Most new dentists go out of business if they are honest. Many of the few who don’t are making money elsewhere — not as dentists.

So, it’s very hard to find a new dentist here. I might pay for an office visit, be told I need 6 crowns and then get no treatment. The last time I got crowns, I was told I needed 4. I got 2, and was going to go back for the other two when I found out from an honest dentist that I didn’t need those 2. Maybe I never needed the first 2. I don’t know.

Everything is ok at this point. The orthodontist asked me if the dentist in question was the person I wanted to do the extraction, and I said, no. She was very kind and said she would give me options, and she did. So, she’s giving me a list of 5 possibilities.

She did not see any damage to the root of the permanent tooth Nextdoor, thank goodness! That was my fear. When permanent teeth come in they cause damage to the roots of the baby teeth. Many baby teeth have no root left when they fall out. If the new tooth is coming down at an angle, it may not erode the entire root, and the baby tooth won’t fall out easily. If a new tooth is blocked by a baby tooth and sits next to the root of a permanent tooth for too long, that permanent root may be damaged. So, now we have to get that baby tooth out as quickly as possible. We also need a device to move her molars back just a bit to make room for the permanent canine teeth.

July 29, 2022

@Rosetta I hope you’re finding some calm today. ❤️ Sending healing hugs.

Sheera

July 30, 2022

@Rosetta

I was just revisiting the sweet message you posted in my thread.

Thank you for your kind thoughts and supportive presence.

I'm thinking of you with gratitude and respect.

I hope you have found a way to calibrate for current challenges and are closer to some approximation of cruise control.

Much love to you,

A.

July 30, 2022

Thank you @Sheera I am doing all right today. It’s been a very busy week, but that has been good for me. My little one is going away for 5 nights, and I’m trying to get her bag packed. We have never been apart more than about 10-15 hours at a time. So, this is new and hard for both of us, but it is a good growth opportunity.

@Ariel I’m very happy that a message I sent is still helping you. You have no idea how much it means to me to hear that some of my suffering has resulted in a benefit to you. For it to have been in vain would have been more tragic. I do hope you are doing well!

All my love to you both, Rosetta

October 17, 2022

@Roseta

Hello my friend. How are you doing?

October 22, 2022

Hi dear @Rosetta,

Just passing here to say hello! I know I am not here very often. Still trying to taper and survive. It is not easy these days.

Have a nice week-end!

Marie

November 6, 2022

Hello @Rosetta,

How are you doing this fall ?

I wanted to thank you, for the support and sharing of experience on my thread, but also more generally on SA.
Your compassion and generosity in sharing your experiences does a lot of good, and helps to fuel the hope we often need.

I know it has been a long and winding road for you, and you sometimes fear that you have failed.

I don't know if this will comfort you, but here you are a shining example of strength, courage and determination, for yourself, your health and your daughter's well-being. ❤️

November 26, 2022

Hi, everyone. I’m sorry I dropped off for so long. I’m not terribly ill, but I am at a disadvantage having been ill for so long.

@Erell @Mimi79 @Elyssa143 Thank you for dropping by! That is so sweet. I will check on your threads soon.

I had a wave in October. There was a bout of dystonia that caused a lot of pain. My waves usually include dystonia. I think I injured the tendons and ligaments in my right elbow while I was traveling for two weeks with a suitcase in September. We moved every day or every two days via train, and when we returned home, my arm was hurting. Then the dystonia took hold and pulled on the injured arm for what seemed like about three weeks. So, all of October and part of November, I was unable to use my right arm very well. If I did, the pain increased.

I’m approaching the 6th anniversary of quitting ADs in February. I decided to quit at Christmastime in 2016. I did a “taper” as recommended on the website for the Mayo Clinic, I think. About six weeks later, I thought I was done. I felt great. It seemed to have been the right decision. By August, I was very, very sick. And here I am, but at least I’m still here, and there is so much about my life that is wonderful!!

This past week, we went out to the desert. It was about 70 degrees out there in the daytime. We had date milkshakes. We went 7,000 feet up a mountain via aerial tramway. We had a cafeteria-style dinner up there. It was 47 degrees there before the sun set, and there was snow everywhere. We saw Mars and Jupiter. Then, we went back down, and sat in thermal springs. So, I’m living, that’s for sure!

The emotional impact of waves has lessened, and yet there are still the post trauma residual effects, right? I panic when I realize one has arrived. I get angry with myself for being blind to it until it is obvious. I get angry — that’s part of a wave — this sudden, intense, out of the blue anger. I lose control of my emotions. Then there are still the fears that the dystonia will come and never go, that the up and down will never stop, that I will never be able to trust my brain again. I can’t plan ahead. I just have to power through when what I have committed to do falls during a wave. I wouldn’t — couldn’t — have done that years ago, but, now, I carry on so that I can have a life — so that my family can have a life. Some days, I throw in the towel, and say I can’t, but not often.

Nevertheless, I’m in a hole, and it’s hard to get out if I’m sideswiped every few weeks. How’s that for a mixed metaphor? I’m still very buried under mounds of stuff, and I have made no real progress on getting rid of anything. It’s very daunting, and if I do make an effort it seems like such a tiny drop in the bucket. However, I have to do it because we are moving! I’m very sad about it because I love my little spot on this Earth. I don’t love the people I have to live near, and I have very few friends here whom I rarely see. My daughter has few friends, as well. I guess I wonder if people don’t like us, but I know that’s silly. People are busy, and I’m a “SAHM” Ha! That was never my intention, but here I am, and no one I know can relate, I guess. Being unable to invite people to the house certainly makes things more difficult.

But it’s still very sad and emotional to move. It’s complicated, but I am hoping for a better life for my daughter even if I never have any close friends myself.

Another thing that has kept me very busy is that my daughter’s school is so much more demanding now. Or so it seems. The teachers are using software to make assignments, and we are not sure which ones need to be completed at home or are intended to be done in class and then abandoned. It’s a mess. I’m trying to get her to complete her work, of course. Some things are turned in via the internet, others on paper. There are those for which the teacher never finishes the lesson, but the software keeps showing that the assignment is incomplete and late. There is no distinction between the required work and the “I hope we get to this, and if not, at least the students were exposed to the concept.” There is no distinction between what is graded or not. We told the teachers about the issue, and they seemed a bit surprised. They are very stressed and demoralized, too. I think there are so many students who are behind because of the pandemic that the teachers are pretty overwhelmed.

Of course, it’s my own fault that I’m still in this hole. If I made more of an effort, I would start to see progress, and that would buoy me. I watch TV, and try to design Lego sets for my daughter, and read, if I can, although dystonia comes on pretty quickly if I read. It’s even worse if I type on the iPad screen. (I can’t see a tabletop computer these days. If I can’t adjust the font, I can’t see the words. So, I can’t type there.).

I procrastinate while doing things that interest me instead of plowing through this house full of stuff. I’m afraid of the emotional experience of finding things that bring back memories. I’m afraid of the emotions I will go through in trying to get rid of things, but not all of this can go into storage. My husband wants me to hire someone to help. He can’t help. He’s not well. We aren’t sure what is wrong, and the doctors don’t know either. All they say is that he should lose weight and that everyone is exposed to so many contaminants these days that it could be anything, but it’s probably an allergy. I don’t think we get good medical care, and I wonder if anyone does these days.

So, I’m sorry that I can’t do more to help here. I find it difficult to do what I have to do everyday just to keep this household afloat. I hope that will change after we move. There will be less clutter, less square footage, and perhaps more emotional bandwidth.

I think about you, and know you are struggling away with tapers and waves. I have more and more people in my life taking the drugs and going into WD. They don’t heed my warnings not to take the drugs, of course. These poisons are still prescribed at a furious rate. They are switched, they are doubled, they are CT’d on the advice of doctors who should know better. I’m sorry that you are here, but I’m glad that you are, too, because this site will save your life if you let it.

November 28, 2022

@Rosetta 💕💕💕💕💕

December 29, 2022

A lot of people feel revulsion when taking ADs while tapering. That is probably what I would have felt had I tapered properly. A better way to think of the pills, or fractions of pills, is as life rafts. Little life rafts that allow the nervous system to float down the turbulent river of change in our brains. We stay afloat, we survive, because we have these life rafts. They keep us above the churning, dangerous waters when we hit the rapids. It seems there are more rapids below the 10 mg point for some people. Getting down to doses below the smallest dose produced by the pharmaceutical companies must be very frustrating.

January 8, 2023

If I can heal, you can, too. You will doubt this at times as the windows and waves pattern cause one to doubt. Over and over again, you will improve and then regress. You must take this to heart: no regression is permanent! You will improve again, and, often, the improvement will be better over all.

At times, there will be a wave that seems much worse. Do not despair — I mean, you will despair, that’s the nature of this syndrome, but I mean that as a figure of speech — do not believe that you are consigned to feeling worse forever just because you have a bad wave that is worse that the most recent wave. That’s normal, unfortunately, and it does not mean you are doomed. Not at all. In fact, it means your brain is healing!

This syndrome is entirely different than any healing we are accustomed to experiencing. It is not linear — you do not improve continuously — on the surface — with discernible improvement over improvement and on and on. This is not like a physical injury such as a burn that feels better every day. Rather, you are actually improving, your brain IS healing, but it will feel as if you have fallen back when a wave comes. The most important piece of advice you can take is this — a regression means healing. The brain is adjusting, trying out different formulas to get to balance. It seems to over correct or under correct, and we feel those “mistakes.”

I went from 150 mg of Zoloft to 0 in about 6-7 weeks. I healed. I am still healing. That was almost 6 years ago. Now, I still see small improvements here and there. My life became manageable years and years ago. I did not quite realize that when it happened.

You should have a much easier time if you are tapering. Smaller shocks than complete cold turkey usually heal faster — if further shocks are avoided. This means not only tapering properly, but avoiding other drugs that might affect your system negatively. (My thread has a few posts about these pitfalls.)

My tactic for making it through was to distract. I learned to play violin, practiced piano, and I read books — kids books without too much drama. I watched quiet TV for kids. Tumbleleaf is very soothing. I think it’s on Amazon Prime now. So is Puffin Rock. There are a few nature shows that are quiet. Most have animals, and scenes that are a bit traumatic, so they can be jarring.

Distract from your symptoms, and take hot baths or showers. I used to set my iPad up in the bathroom and watch a movie while I sat in the bath. I would keep refilling the bath with hot water to stay warm. You have to try to give yourself breaks from the symptoms.

Taking walks is really important, too. They help your brain and body heal so much!

January 9, 2023

Dear @Rosetta,

Your reflections are so inspirational. We are so lucky to have you here, in the community.

16 hours ago, Rosetta said:

At times, there will be a wave that seems much worse. Do not despair — I mean, you will despair, that’s the nature of this syndrome, but I mean that as a figure of speech — do not believe that you are consigned to feeling worse forever just because you have a bad wave that is worse that the most recent wave. That’s normal, unfortunately, and it does not mean you are doomed. Not at all. In fact, it means your brain is healing!

I am sure a lot of us need to read that and find relief in your words.

16 hours ago, Rosetta said:

My tactic for making it through was to distract.

I relate a lot. Yes, of course we need to accept the situation, but we also need to distract from the deep despair we are in. And yes, baths with epsom salts are the best! Unfortunately, where I live now the water is not as hot as I like, but it is what it is.

Thank you for always sharing with us.

January 9, 2023

Dear @Rosetta,

Thank you very much for coming back here to share your experience and wisdom after all you have been through.
I read your words very often and find a lot of strength in them, thank you!
I have only good things to wish you, that this year 2023 will be the occasion to feel a little peace and a lot of love shared with your daughter.
Take care 🧡

January 9, 2023

On 1/8/2023 at 9:49 AM, Rosetta said:

If I can heal, you can, too. You will doubt this at times as the windows and waves pattern cause one to doubt. Over and over again, you will improve and then regress. You must take this to heart: no regression is permanent! You will improve again, and, often, the improvement will be better over all.

At times, there will be a wave that seems much worse. Do not despair — I mean, you will despair, that’s the nature of this syndrome, but I mean that as a figure of speech — do not believe that you are consigned to feeling worse forever just because you have a bad wave that is worse that the most recent wave. That’s normal, unfortunately, and it does not mean you are doomed. Not at all. In fact, it means your brain is healing!

This syndrome is entirely different than any healing we are accustomed to experiencing. It is not linear — you do not improve continuously — on the surface — with discernible improvement over improvement and on and on. This is not like a physical injury such as a burn that feels better every day. Rather, you are actually improving, your brain IS healing, but it will feel as if you have fallen back when a wave comes. The most important piece of advice you can take is this — a regression means healing. The brain is adjusting, trying out different formulas to get to balance. It seems to over correct or under correct, and we feel those “mistakes.”

I went from 150 mg of Zoloft to 0 in about 6-7 weeks. I healed. I am still healing. That was almost 6 years ago. Now, I still see small improvements here and there. My life became manageable years and years ago. I did not quite realize that when it happened.

You should have a much easier time if you are tapering. Smaller shocks than complete cold turkey usually heal faster — if further shocks are avoided. This means not only tapering properly, but avoiding other drugs that might affect your system negatively. (My thread has a few posts about these pitfalls.)

My tactic for making it through was to distract. I learned to play violin, practiced piano, and I read books — kids books without too much drama. I watched quiet TV for kids. Tumbleleaf is very soothing. I think it’s on Amazon Prime now. So is Puffin Rock. There are a few nature shows that are quiet. Most have animals, and scenes that are a bit traumatic, so they can be jarring.

Distract from your symptoms, and take hot baths or showers. I used to set my iPad up in the bathroom and watch a movie while I sat in the bath. I would keep refilling the bath with hot water to stay warm. You have to try to give yourself breaks from the symptoms.

Taking walks is really important, too. They help your brain and body heal so much!

Thanks Rosetta for your post. I needed some encouragement today.

January 16, 2023

Hello Rosetta,

Hope you are doing well. I have akathisia that is lessening over time and just read your comment on how to deal with the condition. I found it incredibly inspiring. Thank you so so much!

January 17, 2023

@almuPA @Erell @Jilla @PortugueseSea

I am very glad to hear that this has helped you!

January 22, 2023

Hi Rosetta,

Thank you so much for popping around to my thread. The post above you wrote on this thread too is very inspiring.

Sending you hugs💛

January 30, 2023

Hi, everyone. I wrote this to someone today, and maybe it will be helpful to you, too.

Recently, I had some intrusive thoughts, and I was reminded of how they were once something I experienced multiple times a day for hours on end. Now, they are much, much, much less frequent, but the nice thing is that they are usually pretty harmless. Sometimes I will think “I’m scared,” but then I realize that I’m not scared at all. Why did those words come into my head? While that might be pretty troubling to someone who did not experience the fear that I used to, for me, it’s a silly, harmless thought like “I like cats” just randomly popping in. I think it’s a habit type thing that “I’m scared” is the thought.

So, I mean to say that you will continue to improve, and someday you are going to be surprised to realize you have not had a certain symptom for ages. Or, if you have the symptom, it’s intensity will be so mild as to render it unimportant to you. I often tell people that a bad wave means that heaIing is happening, but it’s also true that healing is happening all the time, too. I hope people understand that it is not necessary to have bad waves in order for healing to be happening. Maybe this is forgotten by people who have reached a baseline “withdrawal normal” and are tapering very slowly. You won’t have the wild swings that I had, but the drudgery of never feeling good . . . Ugh.

I would like to say, also, that I was worried that the trauma of this experience would stay with me for a long, long time (or forever) after I recovered from certain symptoms like akathisia, but I am finding that I am able to forget it for long periods of time, and I feel that it affects me less than before when I do remember.

January 30, 2023

I always feel better when I read your encouragining posts. Thank you.

January 30, 2023

You are welcome @persistente! Here is another post that I wrote today:

You are not doomed. You will make it through. That feeling of being doomed is actually one of the symptoms of WD. It’s also a pretty natural thought to have when struggling through something like WD for weeks or months, but separately, it’s considered a symptom by many, many people on SA.

Normally, when we have a physical injury, the progression of healing is more or less linear - we get better and better with very few setback or regressions. Anything that affects our brains, whether a physical injury or something that directly knocks off the balance of chemical composition, as ADs do*, results in a much different experience of the healing process.

Here’s a sort of analogy or maybe even an explanation: As the brain and nervous system try to reach a good balance, there are numerous points at which they overcorrect in one direction or the other, and we feel various emotions (as well as physical symptoms) as a result of these overcorrections. One thing we feel is a sense of being doomed or impending doom or a feeling that what we are experiencing in that moment is permanent. Most of us here, I would venture to say, think this feeling is a symptom of WD just as sadness is a symptom — or anxiety or simple fear, etc. It can be a very strong feeling, and we are used to letting our feelings frame our perception of reality. We are supposed to do this as a part of our fight or flight or freeze reaction. Our nervous systems are not designed to cope very well with these extreme feelings of existential dread, and having these feelings with no discernible outside stimuli to identify as the cause can create a great deal of confusion.

Additionally, the fight/flight/freeze reaction is not supposed to last long enough for us to have time to think about the cause for very long. When the coyote is hunting too closely by, and the rabbit can smell him, the rabbit will freeze or run, and, in short order, will either escape or be eaten. Once one escapes, it’s nervous system will calm down and return to normal quite quickly. For those of us in WD, we not only have a nervous system on high alert telling us there is danger all around, but it stays on high alert. So, our higher brain function causes us to try to make sense of this consistent, unrelenting signal from our bodies that we are in danger. This results in a lot of thinking, calculating, searching for a cause, trying to figure out who is intending to harm us, who do we need run away from, where do we need to go to be safe.

We might feel doom. I did many, many, many times. It’s logical, right? The feeling does not cease. In fact, it may begin and then grow, getting stronger over hours or days. I’m not sure why we are designed such that we consider the possibility that we will never get better or why we make the decision that that is the truth — maybe to encourage us to remove ourselves from the area in which we live? However, it is very common among people suffering from WD, and moving will make no difference. So, we have to, time and again, remember that something is wrong with our brains, reality is far different from perception, and — this is important — stop looking through our environment for an outside cause (except the fact that we reduced an AD too fast some weeks back). This is surprisingly hard to do!! Somehow, we have to accept that we are going to feel afraid, feel doom, and persevere anyway until the brain has corrected this mess.

I hope this helps you a bit. Overcoming the signal from your body that you are in trouble is difficult, and you will have to do it over and over again, but many of us here have succeeded.

(*Even if the balance wasn’t ideal to begin with, I believe ADs can change the balance in less than helpful ways (to put it mildly).

January 30, 2023

Thank you for your kind encouragement on my thread today, Rosetta. It means a lot and kept just at the right time. ❤️

January 31, 2023

Thanks for visiting my thread dear Rosetta and for the recommendations. I hope you’re faring okay. My brain fog is too severe to read your latest post, but I’ll be back.

I forgot to tag you too when I replied to your message on my thread. My brain is:🤪🤪🤪

🤗💛🤗

February 2, 2023

On 1/31/2023 at 5:45 AM, Rosetta said:

Hi, everyone. I wrote this to someone today, and maybe it will be helpful to you, too.

Recently, I had some intrusive thoughts, and I was reminded of how they were once something I experienced multiple times a day for hours on end. Now, they are much, much, much less frequent, but the nice thing is that they are usually pretty harmless. Sometimes I will think “I’m scared,” but then I realize that I’m not scared at all. Why did those words come into my head? While that might be pretty troubling to someone who did not experience the fear that I used to, for me, it’s a silly, harmless thought like “I like cats” just randomly popping in. I think it’s a habit type thing that “I’m scared” is the thought.

So, I mean to say that you will continue to improve, and someday you are going to be surprised to realize you have not had a certain symptom for ages. Or, if you have the symptom, it’s intensity will be so mild as to render it unimportant to you. I often tell people that a bad wave means that heaIing is happening, but it’s also true that healing is happening all the time, too. I hope people understand that it is not necessary to have bad waves in order for healing to be happening. Maybe this is forgotten by people who have reached a baseline “withdrawal normal” and are tapering very slowly. You won’t have the wild swings that I had, but the drudgery of never feeling good . . . Ugh.

I would like to say, also, that I was worried that the trauma of this experience would stay with me for a long, long time (or forever) after I recovered from certain symptoms like akathisia, but I am finding that I am able to forget it for long periods of time, and I feel that it affects me less than before when I do remember.

What a great post Rosetta,

I’m so glad you’re doing so much better. You’re a great example of someone getting better day by day after going off meds too quick.

Thanks too for thinking of me when you pop onto this site. Wishing you continued recovery💛

Rosetta: cold switch May 2011 & too fast taper Feb 2017

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Erell

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Rosetta

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Rosetta

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Rosetta

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almuPA

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PortugueseSea

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Rosetta

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Rosetta

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persistente

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Elaine5

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