Rosetta: cold switch May 2011 & too fast taper Feb 2017

[Believer]

Rosetta,

I just tried to quote you and apparently it didn’t work so I will type it out. You’re comment above about a feeling of normalaity. I have experienced something similar. After spending so much time managing symptoms, anxiety, racing mind, etc., when those things lessen or go away for a time, it feels like there is a void that I have to fill. This is a sign of healing! A time to refocus, maybe experience some “boredom” and look for positive activities and thoughts to focus on. It’s good stuff!

[Rosetta]

Journal: 

 

Not much dystonia in the night

Awoke early without cortisol, and did not have an increase in anxiety while lying in bed

BUT had anxiety about getting my daughter to school about 1 hour later

(I couldn't think straight.  It was hard to find her clothes that were warm enough.  I haven't done laundry. My husband had to take over and find clothes.  A cog function issue with the usual anxiety component.)

I managed to dress myself and take her to school.  

 

My mother wants to visit in May.  I think that is causing my symptoms to be a bit worse.

 

Muscle stiffness today and a "sensation" that is not pins and needles, but feels like a dentist's shot has almost worn off.  This is the way muscle stiffness at my neck has been feeling for me lately when I'm in a window.  It's more intense when Im in a wave, but I don't get pins and needles very much at all at any time.

 

Here is an analysis of my neck muscle issues:

Muscle stiffness, pins and needles, numbness (dystonia?)

 

I believe I started clenching my teeth when I was taking Celexa (between 2001-2011 - before Zoloft).  I got a night guard at some point.  I think it was before 2003.  However, after severe WD started (July or Aug 2017), the clenching got worse.  Now, it comes and goes away during Windows.  I bit through the night guard (at my front teeth and the spare also) long before I started Zoloft.  My opinion is that Celexa caused bruxism (jaw clenching/grinding) or made it worse.  In 2006, I had trouble using a mouse with a computer.  It caused headaches.  I switched to using my left hand, and that fixed the problem.

 

Pins and needles are not as frequent as before.  I now have a "sensation" in the same areas that isn't as intense as pins and needles, but my foot still falls asleep sometimes.  This "sensation" is less frequent now that I have frequent Windows.  If I read, use this forum, or write my muscle tension gets worse and so do the sensations, and once in a while I have pins and needles and numbness.

 

The sensations are occurring on the same side as where I clench my jaw -- the right.  My nose, eye, cheek, and tongue, my fingers, my arm, my elbow, my hip, the front of my lower leg and my foot and toes all feel "funny."  My theory is that there is muscle tension in my neck that is pressing on nerves.  This causes the sensation, numbness and pins and needles all up and down my right side.  Using a heating pad helps and taking ibuprophen helps, but I try to avoid that.  I'm worried that any thing I take internally will cause worse WD symptoms.

 

Lifting weights to use the tense muscles seems to help.  This includes the muscle in my chest. If one looks at a diagram of the neck and shoulder muscles one can see how they connect with the chest muscles and those that operate the jaw and run up to the temples.  They all affect each other.  

 

My other symptoms at the moment are anxiety, cortisol awakenings, depression, low stress tolerance, poor cognitive functioning (making decisions, sorting, organizing, setting priorities), and I believe these cognitive issues were caused by Celexa, made worse by the cold switch to Zoloft (kindling), made even worse by the constant increase in the dose of Zoloft (kindling) and intensified by the cold turkey from Zoloft.  I had very good cog function before I took Celexa.  

 

Before Celexa, I had simple depression, but I was able to do what I needed to do and manage my life.  I didn't have anxiety very often, and never such that I was nonfunctional.  It was normal anxiety over real life issues that dissapated quickly when the stressor was over.  I was able to handle a lot of stress before Celexa -- a lot.  I'm quite sure it caused depression, but I was always functional.

[Dalalea]

6 hours ago, Believer said:

maybe experience some “boredom” and look for positive activities and thoughts to focus on. It’s good stuff!

Yes! I had almost forgotten what boredom felt like, because WD keeps me thinking inwardly 24/7!

I started to treat boredom like another symptom until it dawned on me that it was real! If I still feel too tired to do much, I can, at least, find someone online to encourage!

My chores are starting to get done more often than they were a month ago, and I've actually developed a written plan to follow each day.

Such a good feeling when it happens. Boredom is a sign that I'm in a window!

[Kristine]

Dearest Rosetta,  Just dropping by to let you know I am thinking of you.  I can relate to so many of the symptoms you have written (so eloquently I should add)...the biggest of hugs my friend. I admire you. Love K xo

[Downbutnotout]

6 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Journal: 

 

Not much dystonia in the night

Awoke early without cortisol, and did not have an increase in anxiety while lying in bed

BUT had anxiety about getting my daughter to school about 1 hour later

(I couldn't think straight.  It was hard to find her clothes that were warm enough.  I haven't done laundry. My husband had to take over and find clothes.  A cog function issue with the usual anxiety component.)

I managed to dress myself and take her to school.  

 

My mother wants to visit in May.  I think that is causing my symptoms to be a bit worse.

 

Muscle stiffness today and a "sensation" that is not pins and needles, but feels like a dentist's shot has almost worn off.  This is the way muscle stiffness at my neck has been feeling for me lately when I'm in a window.  It's more intense when Im in a wave, but I don't get pins and needles very much at all at any time.

 

Here is an analysis of my neck muscle issues:

Muscle stiffness, pins and needles, numbness (dystonia?)

 

I believe I started clenching my teeth when I was taking Celexa (between 2001-2011 - before Zoloft).  I got a night guard at some point.  I think it was before 2003.  However, after severe WD started (July or Aug 2017), the clenching got worse.  Now, it comes and goes away during Windows.  I bit through the night guard (at my front teeth and the spare also) long before I started Zoloft.  My opinion is that Celexa caused bruxism (jaw clenching/grinding) or made it worse.  In 2006, I had trouble using a mouse with a computer.  It caused headaches.  I switched to using my left hand, and that fixed the problem.

 

Pins and needles are not as frequent as before.  I now have a "sensation" in the same areas that isn't as intense as pins and needles, but my foot still falls asleep sometimes.  This "sensation" is less frequent now that I have frequent Windows.  If I read, use this forum, or write my muscle tension gets worse and so do the sensations, and once in a while I have pins and needles and numbness.

 

The sensations are occurring on the same side as where I clench my jaw -- the right.  My nose, eye, cheek, and tongue, my fingers, my arm, my elbow, my hip, the front of my lower leg and my foot and toes all feel "funny."  My theory is that there is muscle tension in my neck that is pressing on nerves.  This causes the sensation, numbness and pins and needles all up and down my right side.  Using a heating pad helps and taking ibuprophen helps, but I try to avoid that.  I'm worried that any thing I take internally will cause worse WD symptoms.

 

Lifting weights to use the tense muscles seems to help.  This includes the muscle in my chest. If one looks at a diagram of the neck and shoulder muscles one can see how they connect with the chest muscles and those that operate the jaw and run up to the temples.  They all affect each other.  

 

My other symptoms at the moment are anxiety, cortisol awakenings, depression, low stress tolerance, poor cognitive functioning (making decisions, sorting, organizing, setting priorities), and I believe these cognitive issues were caused by Celexa, made worse by the cold switch to Zoloft (kindling), made even worse by the constant increase in the dose of Zoloft (kindling) and intensified by the cold turkey from Zoloft.  I had very good cog function before I took Celexa.  

 

Before Celexa, I had simple depression, but I was able to do what I needed to do and manage my life.  I didn't have anxiety very often, and never such that I was nonfunctional.  It was normal anxiety over real life issues that dissapated quickly when the stressor was over.  I was able to handle a lot of stress before Celexa -- a lot.  I'm quite sure it caused depression, but I was always functional.

I am impressed with your determination and ability to put up with the hard times. I’m sorry you have to go through this. 

[Rosetta]

Today, I woke up without cortisol, I did not have much dystonia in the night, I woke up without much dystonia, and

and I could have slept in if I did not have a 6 year old.  This is a very unusual occurrence.

 

Before I went to bed, I took ibuprophen for the dystonia that was worse because I spent a lot of time reading yesterday.  Taking ibuprophen is a risk that hasn't been a problem in the past, but I still try to avoid it.  Additionally, I took some magnesium right before bed.  I read that another member takes magnesium before bed to prevent cortisol mornings.  

 

I didn't get anxious until after my coffee.  I think it's time to start tapering the coffee.  I had peanut butter on toast with my coffee.  I've been afraid to taper the coffee as I didn't want to "change anything."  Also, it is one of the few pleasures I have, and knowing I will have that pleasure helps me get out of bed.  I don't need it to wake up, but it's a consolation.  I started to enjoy it in December or January.  Before that it was like having to take a drug to avoid a headache.  It wasn't enjoyable; it was just necessary.

 

I had some stressors this morning as it's Saturday, and people come to the house in the morning.  My daughter is bored.  Her friend who comes on some Saturday mornings did not come this week.  He is with his mother this weekend in another city.  So, my daughter needs attention, and she can't stop talking.  This is very difficult for me.  I love her dearly, but it is over stimulating.  We need to go out, but that is also hard for me.  I will feel better once we get outside.  Now the people are gone.  It's noon.  Tomorrow we go to a classical guitar concert for my husband's birthday present from his mother.  I had hope to have a quiet day today, but my husband has to work for a while this afternoon.  So, I will have to go out.

 

My emotions are all over the board these days.  I'm in a window since Friday morning, I think, but I'm not sure.  I base that on the lack of cortisol awakening and lack of anxiety before getting out of bed.  Maybe I've reached a point at which coffe us having more of an effect on anxiety.  Maybe I'm going in and out of windows in a matter of hours?  I'm anxious, then depressed, then I feel like I can handle it all, then I feel I can't deal with this WD any longer, then I feel that I can organize the house, then I feel like throwing everything away, then I feel . . . . It's really hard to know how I will feel and what I can or can't do right now.  

 

Weekends are are always hard and last weekend was a 4 day weekend meaning there were only 4 days of school this past week.  So, I had fewer days of rest this week after a very hard weekend.   Soldier on, I guess.  

[Gridley]

Sounds like a lot of good signs to me.

[DaveB]

33 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

Today, I woke up without cortisol, I did not have much dystonia in the night, I woke up without much dystonia, and

and I could have slept in if I did not have a 6 year old.  This is a very unusual occurrence.

 

Before I went to bed, I took ibuprophen for the dystonia that was worse because I spent a lot of time reading yesterday.  Taking ibuprophen is a risk that hasn't been a problem in the past, but I still try to avoid it.  Additionally, I took some magnesium right before bed.  I read that another member takes magnesium before bed to prevent cortisol mornings.  

 

I didn't get anxious until after my coffee.  I think it's time to start tapering the coffee.  I had peanut butter on toast with my coffee.  I've been afraid to taper the coffee as I didn't want to "change anything."  Also, it is one of the few pleasures I have, and knowing I will have that pleasure helps me get out of bed.  I don't need it to wake up, but it's a consolation.  I started to enjoy it in December or January.  Before that it was like having to take a drug to avoid a headache.  It wasn't enjoyable; it was just necessary.

 

I had some stressors this morning as it's Saturday, and people come to the house in the morning.  My daughter is bored.  Her friend who comes on some Saturday mornings did not come this week.  He is with his mother this weekend in another city.  So, my daughter needs attention, and she can't stop talking.  This is very difficult for me.  I love her dearly, but it is over stimulating.  We need to go out, but that is also hard for me.  I will feel better once we get outside.  Now the people are gone.  It's noon.  Tomorrow we go to a classical guitar concert for my husband's birthday present from his mother.  I had hope to have a quiet day today, but my husband has to work for a while this afternoon.  So, I will have to go out.

 

My emotions are all over the board these days.  I'm in a window since Friday morning, I think, but I'm not sure.  I base that on the lack of cortisol awakening and lack of anxiety before getting out of bed.  Maybe I've reached a point at which coffe us having more of an effect on anxiety.  Maybe I'm going in and out of windows in a matter of hours?  I'm anxious, then depressed, then I feel like I can handle it all, then I feel I can't deal with this WD any longer, then I feel that I can organize the house, then I feel like throwing everything away, then I feel . . . . It's really hard to know how I will feel and what I can or can't do right now.  

 

Weekends are are always hard and last weekend was a 4 day weekend meaning there were only 4 days of school this past week.  So, I had fewer days of rest this week after a very hard weekend.   Soldier on, I guess.  

 

Could have written the same thing about Dr. Pepper for me. Just something I enjoyed, but with the combo of caffeine and sugar, it really had to go. I agree with Gridley, sounds like improvements!

[RachelSusan]

Hi Rosetta,

 

Thanks for dropping by my page. I decided to return the favor and do a visit to your page.  I do follow you and I also get to see the things you post on others' pages.  I enjoy reading everything you write. Even though you are going through hard times you always seem to find something positive to say to others that are struggling. I hope you are in a window right now, you said you weren't sure.  Maybe you are in something between a window and a wave, what would that be, a ledge? Not a cliff, but a ledge, safe but still perched between the two worlds.  Let's hope in the next few hours you decide it is a window.  Scramble through that window my friend.

 

xoxo

RS

[Downbutnotout]

It must be difficult caring for your child. I had my grandson, partially for 2 days, and it wasn’t easy. Especially when he took off all his clothes when I spent 10 minutes putting them on. Normally, it’s just a joy. 

[wantrelief]

Definitely sounds like some really positive changes are happening for you, Rosetta.  It really sounds like you are making great strides towards healing.  I also wanted to second what DBNO acknowledged which is you are going through all of this while caring for your daughter which sounds incredibly challenging.  You are doing an incredible job of "soldering on".  

[Rosetta]

@Gridley @DaveB @Downbutnotout @RachelSusan @wantrelief  Thanks everyone for your support!!  It means a lot.  

 

Dave, I love Dr. Pepper, especially with cherry syrup!!  

RachelSusan, Yes, a ledge!! I think I was on a ledge, lol. If so, I did climb through the window!!

Wantrelief, I sure hope it's massive healing.  (The perimenopause issue has me so worried.) Thanks for the compliment.  She's a darling little girl.  I try to be grateful I have her to keep me going.  I think I get out and about much more because of her.  Downbutnotout, Oh, it's cute when they do that IF one is in a good mood.  Otherwise, not so much!  

Gridley, Thanks, I really appreciate you looking in on me with all you have to do otherwise!

 

Today was a big WINDOW!

 

On days like this I feel as if I've been such a whiner until the sun starts to go down, and then I feel dread (or depression maybe?).  I think I'm afraid of going to sleep and waking up in a wave.  

 

I woke up without cortisol, with very slight dystonia, and I skipped coffee.  I had tea.  I needed to get my daughter's hair washed and take a shower because we were going to a guitar concert. (Very nice concert -- the Romeros, a guitar quartet.) I hoped to avoid anxiety from coffee so that I could get ready on time.  It worked.  I had very little anxiety and almost no dystonia today.  I got both of us ready without a meltdown.  My husband helped.  We were late, but the concert started late.  Lucky us.

 

The day was very tiring, but I enjoyed the music!  That was so nice because I thought it would be wasted on me. I was beginning to think that anhedonia and lack of anxiety were inextricably linked together.  I wondered if it was possible to enjoy a day that had no anxiety.  It seemed that I was able to do more in a window because my mind was not reacting to anything.  So, I was thinking that I was either going to have anxiety which prevented enjoyment or I was going to have anhedonia without anxiety.  Today was proof that wasn't true -- for at least today.  

 

It was one of those days when people looked ugly.  I think that's a WD symptom.  I really do.  I've had that "symptom" so many times in the past few years.  I am sometimes struck by how many people are incredibly ugly and how few are attractive.  It's something I never thought about until Zoloft stopped working.  Then, I thought I had too few friends, stayed in too much and watched too much TV.  That could be the case now, too, but I have a feeling its from slight anhedonia or something similar.  My daughter is always beautiful to me, the sky was pretty today, the hors d'oeurves looked delicious, but most of the people were unbelievably unattractive.  Very strange!

 

I am very tired.  We went to dinner, and I became quite irritable after the sun began to set.  I am trying to self talk myself out of feeling dread about the morning.  I did no laundry this weekend.  It should be "fun" trying to dress my daughter for school in the morning.

 

Thanks for "listening!"

[Downbutnotout]

38 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

@Gridley @DaveB @Downbutnotout @RachelSusan @wantrelief  Thanks everyone for your support!!  It means a lot.  

 

Dave, I love Dr. Pepper, especially with cherry syrup!!  

RachelSusan, Yes, a ledge!! I think I was on a ledge, lol. If so, I did climb through the window!!

Wantrelief, I sure hope it's massive healing.  (The perimenopause issue has me so worried.) Thanks for the compliment.  She's a darling little girl.  I try to be grateful I have her to keep me going.  I think I get out and about much more because of her.  Downbutnotout, Oh, it's cute when they do that IF one is in a good mood.  Otherwise, not so much!  

Gridley, Thanks, I really appreciate you looking in on me with all you have to do otherwise!

 

Today was a big WINDOW!

 

On days like this I feel as if I've been such a whiner until the sun starts to go down, and then I feel dread (or depression maybe?).  I think I'm afraid of going to sleep and waking up in a wave.  

 

I woke up without cortisol, with very slight dystonia, and I skipped coffee.  I had tea.  I needed to get my daughter's hair washed and take a shower because we were going to a guitar concert. (Very nice concert -- the Romeros, a guitar quartet.) I hoped to avoid anxiety from coffee so that I could get ready on time.  It worked.  I had very little anxiety and almost no dystonia today.  I got both of us ready without a meltdown.  My husband helped.  We were late, but the concert started late.  Lucky us.

 

The day was very tiring, but I enjoyed the music!  That was so nice because I thought it would be wasted on me. I was beginning to think that anhedonia and lack of anxiety were inextricably linked together.  I wondered if it was possible to enjoy a day that had no anxiety.  It seemed that I was able to do more in a window because my mind was not reacting to anything.  So, I was thinking that I was either going to have anxiety which prevented enjoyment or I was going to have anhedonia without anxiety.  Today was proof that wasn't true -- for at least today.  

 

It was one of those days when people looked ugly.  I think that's a WD symptom.  I really do.  I've had that "symptom" so many times in the past few years.  I am sometimes struck by how many people are incredibly ugly and how few are attractive.  It's something I never thought about until Zoloft stopped working.  Then, I thought I had too few friends, stayed in too much and watched too much TV.  That could be the case now, too, but I have a feeling its from slight anhedonia or something similar.  My daughter is always beautiful to me, the sky was pretty today, the hors d'oeurves looked delicious, but most of the people were unbelievably unattractive.  Very strange!

 

I am very tired.  We went to dinner, and I became quite irritable after the sun began to set.  I am trying to self talk myself out of feeling dread about the morning.  I did no laundry this weekend.  It should be "fun" trying to dress my daughter for school in the morning.

 

Thanks for "listening!"

I’m glad you enjoyed the music! That sounds great! I have the dread in the morning. I used to love mornings too! 

[DaveB]

14 hours ago, Rosetta said:

@Gridley @DaveB @Downbutnotout @RachelSusan @wantrelief  Thanks everyone for your support!!  It means a lot.  

 

Dave, I love Dr. Pepper, especially with cherry syrup!!  

RachelSusan, Yes, a ledge!! I think I was on a ledge, lol. If so, I did climb through the window!!

Wantrelief, I sure hope it's massive healing.  (The perimenopause issue has me so worried.) Thanks for the compliment.  She's a darling little girl.  I try to be grateful I have her to keep me going.  I think I get out and about much more because of her.  Downbutnotout, Oh, it's cute when they do that IF one is in a good mood.  Otherwise, not so much!  

Gridley, Thanks, I really appreciate you looking in on me with all you have to do otherwise!

 

Today was a big WINDOW!

 

On days like this I feel as if I've been such a whiner until the sun starts to go down, and then I feel dread (or depression maybe?).  I think I'm afraid of going to sleep and waking up in a wave.  

 

I woke up without cortisol, with very slight dystonia, and I skipped coffee.  I had tea.  I needed to get my daughter's hair washed and take a shower because we were going to a guitar concert. (Very nice concert -- the Romeros, a guitar quartet.) I hoped to avoid anxiety from coffee so that I could get ready on time.  It worked.  I had very little anxiety and almost no dystonia today.  I got both of us ready without a meltdown.  My husband helped.  We were late, but the concert started late.  Lucky us.

 

The day was very tiring, but I enjoyed the music!  That was so nice because I thought it would be wasted on me. I was beginning to think that anhedonia and lack of anxiety were inextricably linked together.  I wondered if it was possible to enjoy a day that had no anxiety.  It seemed that I was able to do more in a window because my mind was not reacting to anything.  So, I was thinking that I was either going to have anxiety which prevented enjoyment or I was going to have anhedonia without anxiety.  Today was proof that wasn't true -- for at least today.  

 

It was one of those days when people looked ugly.  I think that's a WD symptom.  I really do.  I've had that "symptom" so many times in the past few years.  I am sometimes struck by how many people are incredibly ugly and how few are attractive.  It's something I never thought about until Zoloft stopped working.  Then, I thought I had too few friends, stayed in too much and watched too much TV.  That could be the case now, too, but I have a feeling its from slight anhedonia or something similar.  My daughter is always beautiful to me, the sky was pretty today, the hors d'oeurves looked delicious, but most of the people were unbelievably unattractive.  Very strange!

 

I am very tired.  We went to dinner, and I became quite irritable after the sun began to set.  I am trying to self talk myself out of feeling dread about the morning.  I did no laundry this weekend.  It should be "fun" trying to dress my daughter for school in the morning.

 

Thanks for "listening!"

 

So awesome you crawled through the window! You may not notice, but from the outside looking in you are doing MUCH better than you were even a month ago. Your windows are very frequent now and you are nearly symptom free while in them.

[brassmonkey]

I'm so glad you enjoyed the concert and the time out.  Trying to unravel the interrelationships between symptoms during WD is enough to make one crazy.  Once you get some idea of how they are interacting they will change the whole thing on you. 

 

There is a phenomena that affects many of us in WD called "Sun Downing".  It's a real medical term and applies to much more than just WD.  Basically people feel fine during the day, but as the sun starts to set they tend to sink into depression and their symptoms worsen.  There are a huge number of factors involved on the physical and psychological levels that cause it.  Recognizing that it happens is a big part of the battle, coping tools and acceptance do the rest.  I found it to be related to fatigue levels, everyday stress and situations.  For me it often was seeking a safe haven and letting down from the day, a digging into my burrow and allowing myself the luxury of withdrawing. 

[Rosetta]

22 minutes ago, brassmonkey said:

There is a phenomena that affects many of us in WD called "Sun Downing".  It's a real medical term and applies to much more than just WD.  Basically people feel fine during the day, but as the sun starts to set they tend to sink into depression and their symptoms worsen.  There are a huge number of factors involved on the physical and psychological levels that cause it.  Recognizing that it happens is a big part of the battle, coping tools and acceptance do the rest.  I found it to be related to fatigue levels, everyday stress and situations.  For me it often was seeking a safe haven and letting down from the day, a digging into my burrow and allowing myself the luxury of withdrawing. 

 

That would explain it.  I have heard of that before in other contexts.  When I was on Zoloft, I felt great relief from the anxiety when the sun went down.  I thought it was because the day was over, and I had no more pressure on me.  I guess that same mechanism was at work then. 

[Kristine]

Hey Lovey Rosetta, I was so happy to read you were able to go out to a concert with your family and enjoy the music! You are doing so well  the laundry can wait!  I love reading your posts. I can relate to so much that you say.  Your explanations of your feelings and experiences are so honest. You have a unique ability delve into the heart of each feeling/experience and make sense  try to untangle and make sense of it.  Thank you, it helps me make sense of my own experiences. I'm sure it helps many many more people.  Love and hugs my friend. K xo

[RealMe]

21 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Today was a big WINDOW!

 

On days like this I feel as if I've been such a whiner until the sun starts to go down, and then I feel dread (or depression maybe?).  I think I'm afraid of going to sleep and waking up in a wave.  

 

I woke up without cortisol, with very slight dystonia, and I skipped coffee.  I had tea.  I needed to get my daughter's hair washed and take a shower because we were going to a guitar concert. (Very nice concert -- the Romeros, a guitar quartet.) I hoped to avoid anxiety from coffee so that I could get ready on time.  It worked.  I had very little anxiety and almost no dystonia today.  I got both of us ready without a meltdown.  My husband helped.  We were late, but the concert started late.  Lucky us.

 

The day was very tiring, but I enjoyed the music!

Hi Rosetta,

So glad you had a good time with your family at the concert!  And a big window!  May you have many, many more.

xo RM

[Rabe]

Hi Rosetta,

I am so able to identify with what you write, though my children are grown.  I raised them myself and we were so very close and had so many wonderful wonderful years filled with precious, delightful, hysterical, and heart warming moments.  Now, I am no longer the mom they knew and it has caused a huge chasm and I feel so much guilt and so lonely as well.  I was going to move closer to my daughter and her daughter and family as I feel it is so hard for both of us and I start hating myself more the more she chastises for not being there for her etc.  

I read on this sight and I feel such a sadness.  Its sort of like I feel I have vanished...yet I'm expected to be who I was.  God knows I want to be but cannot.  I had a horrible day yesterday with the electrolytes off all day...working to try to stay out of the ER.  And today I reacted to the medication the kidney doctor recommended...a potassium sparing diuretic which I have no clue of the whys for if the why is the tapering. Hoping it will not be an issue in the withdrawal.  I am supposed to be moving this week and I simply cannot ... I just cannot.  I canceled it and my daughter is furious...why I don't give her a big notice about everything.  Well, I have no clue what each day is going to bring and I have to live with that but I understand others not being able to, though I so wish my kids would read some of the things I send on tapering and withdrawal.  I feel it would not even be wise at this point to move close to her which is hard because of the baby.  How can a person feel so little joy with new grandchildren?  I did get a hold of my doctor re the viibryd and he never got back to me.  At my age, talking about years to recover, or be some of the person you were is hard to hear....not sure I have years....before the rapid taper at least had periods in between where felt capable and felt some joy.  He did me no favors.  

Did you have a CT scan that affected you at some point?  I was tapering and had one in July and had an awful reaction though had them in past.  No one would believe it but between that and the tapering the doctor put me back in the hospital and did a rapid CLonazepam taper..havent been anywhere near the same since...and I thought how I was then was awful!!!

Your daughter will still remember the good...want you to know that.  She will.  You sound like a loving caring mom and person...she is fortunate to have you in her life!!!

[Rosetta]

36 minutes ago, Rabe said:

 

 

Your daughter will still remember the good...want you to know that.  She will.  You sound like a loving caring mom and person...she is fortunate to have you in her life!!!

 

Thank you for your sweet note, Rabe.  I am so sad that you have been through this horror and that your children do not understand.  The doctors have not been very smart, I see.  You know that if you are ever to be well you have to treat yourself kindly right now no matter what your kids think.  If you don't, you won't be able to be there for them as soon as possible.  

 

Today has been hard for me, and I'm finding it hard to read the threads of those who are suffering right now, but I'll take a look at yours when I'm feeling better.  

[Rosetta]

Journal:

 

Today was pretty awful.  I was so anxious that I was crying, but not hard enough for a release from the anxiety.  I'm still stressing about what my mother will do if I don't allow her to visit.

 

 

Poor sleep -- I was awakened a lot in the night by my daughter, the cat and the computer in the hall booted itself up to do an update.  I thought it was off, but apparently not.  I had too much magnesium last night and had cramps.

Dystonia in the night -- My neck was stiff before I went to bed and was stiff all night.  Shortly after I woke up it was better, but became stiff again as I was reading to distract myself from anxiety.

Anxiety from about 5:00-5:30 a. m. that stayed with me all day.

Lack of appetite

Magnesium in the a.m, and at lunch.

 

Took my daughter to and from school in the car

Missed my walk today

Went to gymnastics with my daughter at the gym nearby (not 45 minutes away)

 

I'm wondering if the lack of caffeine yesterday had an effect, and I think that, in the evening, the stiffness in my neck might have been because of the lack of a full cup of coffee yesterday.  I had 1/2 cup of tea yesterday instead.

Today I had only one cup of tea and no coffee.  Instead of avoiding anxiety, however, I continued to have anxiety all day today whereas yesterday I had very little anxiety.  

 

[Downbutnotout]

I’m so sorry you suffered last night and today. It doesn’t seem fair. I can’t imagine the challenge of raising a child under those circumstances. You must have great love for her. Your emotions come through all the time. You haven’t lost that caring feeling. Be happy about that. 

[Rabe]

I am sorry you had a rough day Rosetta,

I can say that I have found I can be anxious allll of one day and then better another.  I also know that is hard to remember when having many more of the anxious days!  It makes the days very very long!  Caffeine or sugar can bring anxiety...but on good days a bit of ice cream is nice.  The fact that you did get out and took your daughter to and from school and to gymnastics with you to me is wonderful!  My anxiety and agoraphobia since the long taper have stopped majority of my outings....and that is hard for my daughter...all we can do is keep trying.  I also have found and heard others speak of the stiffness of the muscles which, for me, goes along with the tapering and does ebb and flow as well...my potassium may have something to do with that but I think it is there inspite of.  A warm heating pad seems to help and some gentle stretching.  Want you to know you are not alone on the appetite....many eat because have to and they always say here to try to eat good food...still the weight loss with muscle and fat wasting is hard to look at....but I read that those can return as well.  It 

IS so difficult to have a good day and feel normal and feel so good...and then if next day is not that way its like the best gift ever has been ripped from your hands and you wonder if it will ever return...that's when I come here and read and find that with Gods Grace it will....in time!!  Hope you have a good tomorrow!!

Blessings!

 

[doxxigirl]

Hi Rosetta, I wanted to stop by your thread and say hi I hope you are having a good day today!  You were so kind to stop by my thread and offer your support. 

 

XOXO Sam

[DaveB]

21 hours ago, Rosetta said:

Journal:

 

Today was pretty awful.  I was so anxious that I was crying, but not hard enough for a release from the anxiety.  I'm still stressing about what my mother will do if I don't allow her to visit.

 

 

Poor sleep -- I was awakened a lot in the night by my daughter, the cat and the computer in the hall booted itself up to do an update.  I thought it was off, but apparently not.  I had too much magnesium last night and had cramps.

Dystonia in the night -- My neck was stiff before I went to bed and was stiff all night.  Shortly after I woke up it was better, but became stiff again as I was reading to distract myself from anxiety.

Anxiety from about 5:00-5:30 a. m. that stayed with me all day.

Lack of appetite

Magnesium in the a.m, and at lunch.

 

Took my daughter to and from school in the car

Missed my walk today

Went to gymnastics with my daughter at the gym nearby (not 45 minutes away)

 

I'm wondering if the lack of caffeine yesterday had an effect, and I think that, in the evening, the stiffness in my neck might have been because of the lack of a full cup of coffee yesterday.  I had 1/2 cup of tea yesterday instead.

Today I had only one cup of tea and no coffee.  Instead of avoiding anxiety, however, I continued to have anxiety all day today whereas yesterday I had very little anxiety.  

 

 

So sorry Rosetta, you are doing SO well, but it doesn't make an anxiety filled day feel any better. Hopefully today was better, my day yesterday was not good either, but today has been better. VERY up and down, but still better. This artificial withdrawal anxiety has got to be the absolute worst thing in the world, makes you doubt everything in your life, and feel hopeless. There has GOT to be an end to this, it can't last forever, keep pushing forward and look to better days ahead. 

[Rosetta]

1 hour ago, DaveB said:

This artificial withdrawal anxiety has got to be the absolute worst thing in the world, 

No doubt.  Thanks for being kind, Dave.  I'm feeling quite a bit of fear because of the fact that I had a good day.  It is very hard to go know I'm likely to go into a very uncomfortable wave tomorrow.  I would have thought I would be grateful that I have so many opportunities for relief.  It's a surprise that it doesn't feel that way.

 

Journal:. I had a normal day again for the most part.  There was some anxiety this morning before I had tea.  I cried a bit as I am so tired of this illness.  I can't be natural with my child when I'm feeling anxiety, and that was a problem this morning. 

 

Very little dystonia

Anxiety until I had 2 cups of tea (2/3 the caffeine of a cup of coffee)

Gastrointestinal issues

 

 

 

[DaveB]

14 hours ago, Rosetta said:

No doubt.  Thanks for being kind, Dave.  I'm feeling quite a bit of fear because of the fact that I had a good day.  It is very hard to go know I'm likely to go into a very uncomfortable wave tomorrow.  I would have thought I would be grateful that I have so many opportunities for relief.  It's a surprise that it doesn't feel that way.

 

Journal:. I had a normal day again for the most part.  There was some anxiety this morning before I had tea.  I cried a bit as I am so tired of this illness.  I can't be natural with my child when I'm feeling anxiety, and that was a problem this morning. 

 

Very little dystonia

Anxiety until I had 2 cups of tea (2/3 the caffeine of a cup of coffee)

Gastrointestinal issues

 

 

 

 

I know exactly the feeling, when I am doing ok I know a bad time is going to come along to ruin it, so it makes it hard to enjoy it. I also get spoiled by the good times and surprisingly they almost make the bad times worse because you remember now what feeling god REALLY is. You are doing so great though, totally off meds and having NORMAL days! You may have some waves and setbacks, but overall you can just make sure you take care of yourself and start enjoying life!

[Rosetta]

I just read an encouraging update from the mother of a 26 year old woman.  Her daughter stopped taking psych drugs in late Sept of 2016 and has seen a great deal of improvement since that time.  She had withdrawn from Lexapro 23 months ago (February/March of 2015) and was given an antipsychotic a few months later, but she only used it for about a month.  She had very severe mental symptoms that were much like mine.

 

Her mother wrote this recently:

 

"She is now 23 months off her initial DC of Lexapro and has off all drugs (she had reinstated, with disastrous results, for about a month and then was forcefully drugged for a month or so after getting "caught") for about 15 months.  Although her "withdrawal normal" always seemed to be moving in the right direction, improvement was so slow, it was almost imperceptible. Finally, in the last month or so, I have witnessed some REMARKABLE changes.  The way I think of it is, she "popped out."  First of all, one of the more marked symptoms she has had throughout withdrawal is being almost totally silent, without speech, literally saying nothing, or almost nothing, for months and months at a time  I don’t mean she was incapable of speaking, because she could ask for what she needed, like food or a blanket or a bath, but she almost never said anything.  But all of a sudden, about a month ago, she began to get interested in interacting with young people on online chat groups affiliated with youtube channels. And then she began talking, in spades!

 

"It’s as though all of a sudden, within the course of about a month, her cognition, emotions, and social awareness has taken a huge leap forward. She is now spending hours on end talking to people online, and she is now sounding just like her pre-WD self—the same sense of humor (very witty and zany), the same empathy for others, the same range of emotions she always had. It is just amazing to listen to her speak--it's almost as though the WD never happened.  Her memory and thought processes and sense of self--all of which seemed to have vanished when WD began, almost two years ago--seem perfectly intact. If this is just a "window," which of course it might be, it is certainly a VERY long (now a month) and VERY bright one!"

[Rosetta]

Symptoms:

Cortisol awakening -- over and over for more than an hour

Anxiety

Crying

Depression

Very little dystonia/muscle tension upon awakening and from writing-- what does this mean?  It usually goes hand in hand with a wave.  Is this a window or is this symptom abating?  I don't know.

 

This is day 13 of my cycle.

 

Trigger warning

 

So, this morning was awful.  Before I got up, I had been getting cortisol spikes since 5 a.m.  Every time something woke me up, I got another one.  By 6:45 I was a wreck.  I held it together until my daughter was at school, and then I started to cry.  It was a cathartic cry at least, but it's left me drained.  In 1 hour I have to pick up my daughter, and I'm not up to it.  I just want to crawl into a hole.

 

I'm trying really hard to be hopeful and think about all the progress I've made.  I can list the number of symptoms that I no longer have.  I can be grateful that despite a lot -- a lot -- of anxiety I had this morning that it's gone now, and I'm not having much muscle tension or dystonia today.  In place of the anxiety, as is often the case after a very intense anxiety attack, is a deep despair.  I am so tired.  I am so worried about the consequences of being incapable of raising my daughter as I want to raise her.  I am so angry that I am in this position.  

 

My husband and I had another discussion this morning due to my intense anxiety.  I simply cannot express my feelings to him any longer.  He doesn't take it well; he contradicts me; he's threatened by the return of my anxiety, and he cannot be a support person because of it.  He had somewhere to go today, and I think he was afraid that he would have to cancel.  So, he couldn't be supportive.  He did try, but he failed.  He has so much anxiety himself, and that's not surprising at all.  This has been a very long haul for him, too.

 

I'm feeling afraid that the anxiety and morning cortisol part of WD is going to go on another year.  What will that do to us?   I have one or the other or both not everyday, but very nearly every other day and frequently 2 days in a row with only one day of rest.  Everyone says this is a good sign, but why?   Is anxiety usually gone by 18 months post meds?  That seems to be the case for some people, but I am afraid to search for examples because I find all kinds of upsetting things when I look around on threads.  Do the Mods have a sense of the usual cessation time of this symptom?

[Kristine]

Hey Rosetta, Just popping in to let you know I am thinking of you and hoping this difficult day is improving for you.  Sending you the biggest of hugs of support. Much Love  K xo

[Rosetta]

17 minutes ago, Kristine said:

Hey Rosetta, Just popping in to let you know I am thinking of you and hoping this difficult day is improving for you.  Sending you the biggest of hugs of support. Much Love  K xo

Thank you, Kristine.  Big hugs and love to you, too.  

 

I had one cup of tea at breakfast with food today in order to avoid increasing the anxiety.  Most of the anxiety went away, but the worries continued and the feeling of depression, too.  I went for a walk.  Now I'm thinking of getting into a mag bath.  I have to volunteer at the school tomorrow.  Maybe I'll get a break from the cortisol tomorrow.

[Gridley]

Rosetta,

 

Thanks for the vote of confidence.  It means a lot to me.

[wantrelief]

2 hours ago, Rosetta said:

I, personally, think these medications make us LESS resilient.  I think they somehow take away the brain's ability to adjust when life circumstances throw us a curve ball.

This really resonated with me, Rosetta.  It is exactly how I have felt for the many years I've tried to come off of ADs as stress would throw me into full-on withdrawal and then I would updose trying to find that stable place again (although the last attempt at updosing didn't work so I have concluded citalopram is no longer working for me).  I was curious what your thoughts are of resiliency returning after years of medication use?  I am hoping with enough self-care we can gain back what we have lost in terms of resiliency as we find other ways to cope which we may not have been doing while relying on medication to carry us through.

[Rosetta]

1 hour ago, wantrelief said:

I was curious what your thoughts are of resiliency returning after years of medication use?  I am hoping with enough self-care we can gain back what we have lost in terms of resiliency as we find other ways to cope which we may not have been doing while relying on medication to carry us through.

 

Hi Wantrelief,

 

On one hand I think we will get it back, but I'm feeling so discouraged right now.  It's hard to have a positive thought.  I will try to engage my analytical talents:

 

I have no reason to think we don't get it back.  I am much more resilient -- with regard to little things mind you -- right now than I was even a month ago.  I've never seen anyone write that it will not come back.  Hopefully, someone who has healed completely will answer this for us Or point us to some essay on the subject.  Anyone?  

 

Consider Altostrata.  Imagine the stress she deals with everyday being responsible for this website.  All the people who are literally "crazy" in WD getting into tiffs.  All the problems of normal human interaction.  The people who make money off of pharmaceuticals who would like nothing more than to see opinions like hers stamped out.  She handles it well.  Monica Cassini decided that she couldn't continue Beyond Meds, but her website model was much different.  I hope that Altostrata has hit upon something that works for her and that she feels her resiliency has returned.  Would she continue otherwise?  Maybe, but surely she's not without the support she needs to do so.

 

I suppose the theory I have on why we lose resiliency while supposedly "stable" on meds could be informative.  The reason I think we lose resiliency seemingly out of the blue is that too many of the receptors are occupied and/or the body stops making the neurotransmitters while we are on meds.  Then, there's not enough "wiggle room" --plasticity--left to deal with life's ups and downs.  I think it's possible that "virgin brains" are fluctuating in the amounts of neurotransmitters a lot more than anyone dares to imagine. This probably happens not only with regard to stress but the changes in sunlight throughout the year.  So, the person on meds is vulnerable.  I formed this theory out of almost nothing.  I haven't given it much thought, but it's based mostly on my own descent into a place of poor cognitive functioning and ever increasing anxiety while on Celexa from 2001 to 2011. My experience after the switch to Zoloft in 2011 was more of the same albeit much more pronounced and horrific.

 

I've seen opinions that not only is depression not "caused" by a lack of serotonin between the synapses, but that some people who are depressed have too much serotonin.  We know now that the serotonin theory is BS that was made up out of thin air to market the drugs.  We also know that serotonin is not the whole story by any stretch.  Then, of course, there is the gut, and all the crazy things the Monsantos of the world are doing to our food, water and air.  How much do things such as pesticides and fracking hurt people and their brains and therefore affect their neurotransmitters?

 

So, I feel that going forward we have to protect ourselves from living lives that we have not been built to live.  While stress is unavoidable, there are a lot of daily stressors that we might be able to choose to avoid.  (Might.). That way when it's time to react to major stress maybe we will be ready.  That's true for all people, but simply more true for us, and I realize that this is said from a position of extreme privilege.  To be able to control what one eats, drinks and breathes is difficult enough for any of us, but moreso for some.  I hope that as I get better I can do better to avoid as many factors that might cause stress on my body, mind and gut as possible in the hopes that I will get resilience back.

 

In short, I'm hopeful that rather than being less able to regulate neurotransmitters that we will be even more capable of regulating them after we are healed than we were able to while on the meds.  Without that interference of the med happening all the time maybe we can get a natural fluctuation of all neurotransmitters going again by being careful about what we eat, drink and breathe and trying to live in a way that is more suitable for the bodies and brains we have.  It's possible that if this WD experience teaches us -- forces us -- to do that we will be healthier and more resilient than people who are putting the pedal to the metal, but haven't yet tried a med to help them cope.

[Rosetta]

9 hours ago, DrugfreeProf said:

You WILL make it and you will be happy again.

 

Thank you so much.  I'm very tired.  It is nice to hear your encouragement that the anxiety will go.  Your offer to my husband I will pass along.  Thank you.  That's very generous of you.  -- Rosetta

[wantrelief]

16 minutes ago, Rosetta said:

On one hand I think we will get it back, but I'm feeling so discouraged right now.  It's hard to have a positive thought.  I will try to engage my analytical talents:

 

I have no reason to think we don't get it back.  I am much more resilient -- with regard to little things mind you -- right now than I was even a month ago.  

Wow - thank you so much for sharing your eloquently written thoughts.  I quoted you first saying you felt discouraged and then your statement that you feel more resilient than you did a month ago - hopefully that will help you feel less discouraged.  I think your theory about why we lose resiliency while on meds is as good as any and I like your positive thinking that we will be more resilient in the end!